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As Wait Continues, Construction Prep Work Intensifies at Arena SiteNovember 6, 2009, 2:05 pmThe Nets still don’t know if or when they will break ground in Brooklyn. Still, construction prep work continues at the arena site, including finalizing connections to city water and sewer systems, and the final alignment of railroad tracks beneath the site. Meanwhile, critics take a look at what happens if the Court of Appeals rules in favor of the Nets: how fast the few residents left would be forced to leave.  Atlantic Yards Construction Update #62 - - Empire State Development Corp. Flatbush Construction - Tracy Collins - Flickr The condemnation process: what might happen if the ESDC wins the eminent domain case - Norman Oder - Atlantic Yards ReportPosted in Brooklyn Move; Ratner, Bruce | 54 Comments » |
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November 6th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
The poor people have the gov’t take away their homes in favor of a millionaire, sad.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Here we go again – more sob posts
Get over it – its happening
Go Brooklyn!
November 6th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Maybe they can build around the people who still live there. You will be watching the game and a little old lady will be hanging her wash on the backboard of our opponents basket. It would add a “lived in” touch to the new arena.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Millionaire and now BILLIONAIRE!
Maybe they will feel better about it now.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
SmartNets,
Get over it? It’s easy and convenient for you to give away other people’s property, isn’t it?
November 6th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Changing the subject…Have you folks read the article in ESPN the Magazine about Donald Sterling, the owner of the Clippers?
What a despicable guy. Why hasn’t David Stern said something about this creep? Google this bum, and read about the Federal lawsuit that Sterling just settled for 2.7 million dollars, the largest settlement ever in a housing discrimination suit.
Sterling puts a black mark on the entire NBA. He should be forced to sell the Clippers.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Yeah, thank god we have an angel like Bruce Ratner. He forces people to move out of their homes because he doesn’t want to pay full price for the land. What a gem! We’re Nets fans, so theft and force are okay… right?
November 6th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
@ Paul Erstein…
Come on, Sterling indeed puts a mark on the entire NBA, but he would pay 2.7 million to make sure it wasn’t a black one.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
I was not surprised that the response from that ESDC was that he assumes that they will not lose any case. It sort of reminds me of those who think it’s easy to beat the other team just because they look terrible. There is an old saying to this, “Don’t count your chickens before they are hatched.” As a matter of fact I can use another one on this, “Where fools rush in, angels tread.” The fight is not over yet. As for DDDB, if anyone here wants to give Goldstein a piece of their mind, he will be having a Q&A session over at 61 S Portland Avenue in Brooklyn 6 PM this Sunday. A suggest donation of $20 is needed, but any donation will do, and the dress code is mostly business casual, so no regular t-shirts or jeans, though no dress shoes are recquired.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
After the condemnation of the remaining residential properties, I would give until “sundown” for Daniel Goldstein to “get out of town”. Relocate him to Newark!
If Goldstein has his way, he would be depriving the New York economy of thousands of desperately needed jobs, new housing and businesses, and a team that millions of New Yorkers could finally root for (just look at how the Yankees’ success has helped the city and its morale).
PS. For those that missed it there was a report about an imposter at this site using a multitude of names (refer to the “Arena Not Getting Tax Credit” from Nov. 4).
November 6th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
They finally caught Trenton, Tal and Isacc???… (Just kidding guys)
November 6th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
@ Paul Erstein
Agree all the way. I hate the fact that the league has 2 teams in one building. I would love nothing more than to see the Clips sold to someone who will take them to Anaheim, San Jose or Kansas City.
The big problem is that there was no admission of guilt when he settled. He merely said that the cost of litigation was more than the 2.7 million settlement amount so he agreed to settle but never admitted that he did anything wrong. Unfortunately, that means that the league can’t take action. Sterling had smart lawyers. Technically, nobody can prove that his litigation costs would be more than 2.7 million even though we know he’s full of it and that the litigation amount would be a fraction of 2.7 million.
Anaheim, San Jose or KC Clippers….please make it happen.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
@TrueBlood
Ratner is actually one of the more moral NBA owners.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
That isn’t very funny Mike, and there are countries around the world that arrest people for criticizing the government. I think that the claim on some person using multiple names is just another fear tactic used by supporters to keep us opponents silent. So what if that person isn’t a Nets fan and opposes the move? I know many people who aren’t Nets fans themselves and don’t want them in Brooklyn. I was against having my tax dollars paying for the new stadium for the Jets on the West Side Yards, but I am not a Jets fan at all. Just being against giving taxpayer money to the rich and the abuse of eminent domain alone is a reason to oppose these things, and it doesn’t take a fan of those teams to know it better.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
I was just in the brooklyn/atlantic yards area recently, and am also a brooklyn native myself — Fort Greene/Clinton Hill area for 9 years. Pretty close to AY/Flatbush.
After seeing the development going on here in the past decade, this atlantic yards is a huge eye sore. We have nice shopping centers and such now, but this dilapidated, ugly, atlantic yards still exists. I don’t understand why anyone would want to stop this project. If the traffic is so bad, then take the subway. If MSG can have an arena in the middle of a city, than so can brooklyn.
Yes, a few people would have to sacrifice, but it would make brooklyn a lot better.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
I thought it was pretty funny, Mike.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
@ Trueblood
You should see a post i did a few weeks about the Clippers and how they share a similar history with the Nets
November 6th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
The event I just mentioned is your chance to actually talk to him, so if you are going to give him a piece of your mind and say how selfish he is, that one is your chance.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
@RD
I’d love to see it. See if you can find it and cut and paste it on this thread. It would be appreciated.
@NI
Maybe so. My post was directed at that scumbag Sterling though.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
@Tal
Actually the decision by a well known critic to take on SEVENTEEN handles cannot be defended, on any grounds. He is trying to skew the debate, deliberately. We have seen threads where he has taken on different handles in order to make it appear more people supported his position. It is also childish.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
17? On this site? For real? Can you list the names? Wow, that dude needs to get a life.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I bet Wade and LeBron are gonna high five each other when the first shovel sinks into the ground..
November 6th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Net Income,
Prove it, or stop making baseless claims.
Also, reveal your identity. Thanks.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Chris,
Would it be better for the people that are forced to give up their homes? Look at the entire picture, not just the world through your Nets-colored glasses. Confiscation of homes is not okay, even if you’re an NBA fan.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
@ Brooklyn Bound –
Easy for me to say my man – yea it is – i take no pity on Goldstein who has lived on that property for 7 months and is holding up thousands of jobs and affordable housing from being created in a giant eye sore in Brooklyn.
it is a joke that there is so much opposition to this project which is a major benefit to the city financially and for tourism for years to come.
People will come see the Brooklyn Nets because it is Brooklyn and the word Brooklyn resignates with people around the world – don’t ask me why – but it does…NEWARK DOES NOT.
This project cannot happen fast enough if you ask me.
Someone once posted on here that the barclays center will be the icing on the cake for Brooklyn and I see that…Brooklyn has a history of rich tradition both culturally and with entertainment…this only completles it.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
@ Brooklyn –
THey have been offered as reported by the ESDC market value for their homes…
And again – I don’t care about Goldstein – he has lived there for 7 months – give me a break
November 6th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
SmartNetsFan,
Here’s what you’re ignoring, the land isn’t yours to give. It’s the property of the owner. It’s of no consequence if someone has lived there one day or for 99 years. It’s THEIRS, not yours.
Is property rights dead? Look at nations that have respected property rights vs. those who don’t. Which are more prosperous? So no, you’re absolutely wrong that violating property rights benefits the city. Also, people who lose their homes are part of the city – why are you excluding them?
As for jobs, that comes via the free market. The government cannot create jobs, it can only re-allocate them while passing on an efficient and costly layer of overhead. Also, if this project is such a slam dunk, why does Ratner need to state to force people out? Why does he need tax subsidies? If it’s such a slam dunk, private investment would have jumped at the chance to fund this project. It’s far from a no-brainer, as the market has told us.
If the owners have been offered market value? Why haven’t they sold? Because the offer wasn’t market value.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
@BrooklynBound you have absolutely no idea what youre talking about. I personally know several people who were given 2 even 3 times the market value of their homes to move. Goldstein just wants to prove a point. Also he is being supported privately by someone who will go unnamed who has a personal interest and beef with FCRC building the arena. Why dont you ask DDDB to open their books and find out where their funding to oppose FCRC is really coming from.
Its a shame the this a$$clown is still holding up so many people getting jobs. To continue to live in an eye sore. I hope and pray that the Eminent Domain gets resolved in FCRC favor and they can get this thing done. Also once Mikhail takes over the process will really all get expedited.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
@ Brooklyn Bound –
I second BigEd
November 6th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
BigEd,
It seems you do not understand what FMV is. FMV varies from person to person. If you are offered FMV, you will sell. They did not sell, so they were not offered FMV. Sorry.
As for jobs, please see my post above. Government doesn’t create jobs, the private sector does.
Eminent domain should be for private use, not corporate handouts.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
@BrooklynBound
We don’t reveal identities of posters…but if we did, there would be some embarrassed people around here.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Net Income,
So you can’t back up your outlandish claim. That’s what I thought.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
BigEd, you tend to miss the point here. If someone has been offered and says no, that means that their property isn’t for sale. In that event, they care more about their property than they do about money, which is the case for Goldstein. If he chose not to sell at any of the times he offered, then why should he be forced to? That sounds so un-American. Sometimes I find it an irony that this very country goes around the world to preach freedom and democracy to others, but back at home, they act no different from those they condemn. Put yourself in his shoes and think about it if this was you who was in that position. Would you just sell out, or fight for your property? As for saying who funds DDDB, why does that bother you? It’s not like who funds other groups you don’t like seem to be an issue, so why them? BTW, Matthew Brikerhoff agreed to be their attorney for the lawsuits at a fraction of what he normally charges all because he cared about what was happening. Who was I kidding by mentioning the latest event since I already know that nobody else here besides me will be attending it? I guess some are too chicken to give their views in person.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
It is a sad day when a developer can tell a city that they want a piece of land, name their price, buy/kick out their tenants, take subsidies from those kicked out tenants and other members of a city to pay their named “fair-market” price, and do it all because this developer says its doing whats in the best interest of the city. I never knew the best interest of the city ignored any type of input from the city, its tenants, and taxpayers. I never knew tax dollars have to support a private corporation and plan that no tax payer voted for. (I count the “legitimate” NY legislature backing this plan for the best interest of its pockets… i mean electorate.)
November 6th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
NJ Net,
It’s ironic that our new owner may be Russian, because our policies are very Soviet Union-esque. The state must take over our property for the good of the people, right? How did communism work out? We have prospered due to freedom, property rights and the free market, not because governmental bureaucrats tell us what to do.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
meant (I *dont* count the “legitimate” NY legislature backing this plan for the best interest of its pockets… i mean electorate.)
November 6th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
I’m getting sick of hearing about these “few” people losing their homes. Big Deal! I was against this project but when you really look at it. This will make New York and its boroughs thrive! Competition is a good thing and at the end of the day the Barclays Center will turn Brooklyn, NY into a premiere destination.
The Brooklyn Nets will be a HUGE marketing device in the sports world as well. They’ll immediately be in the Top 5 franchises in net-worth. People lose their property, it happens. I remember when I was a kid and lived in a town in the State of Oregon. They had to take away a few homes to build a Fred Meyer retail complex. It was a HUGE benefit to the WHOLE TOWN with thousands of jobs created etc.
One thing I do know is new Stadiums or Arenas make your city a star attraction. Look at the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, MN as it takes away tons of events now from Target Center in Minneapolis, MN. It creates competition. The Staples Center where I live in Los Angeles, CA now. It’s HUGE! L.A. Live is a BIG DEAL and turning Downtown Los Angeles into a premiere spot to visit. These things do help.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
BrooklynBound sounds like a well versed defense real estate attorney.
He also has a similar writing style to many other identities we’ve seen.
Hmmm
November 6th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
anyone who still needs convincing, just look at the images on flckr. 3 buildings that look desolate. Look at the building to the left full of lights. No one lives in the three. THey are old and ugly. Blight. 12 people in the biggest borough in the world!
November 6th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Those buildings weren’t considered blight until after those that were living there sold to Ratner. He was the one who created the blight. Ever since he knew that some wouldn’t sell to him, he would spin it as if they were the only ones living there while the rest was vacant. The opposition is not trying to keep the rail yards undeveloped, they are trying to allow more sensible developement that will provide even more jobs and affordable housing along with a more reasonable scale of height. On a sidenote, just because someone here knows the real estate market, doesn’t mean that they are using multiple identities, so enough with that.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Tal, sounds like the republican health care plan…..
November 6th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
SayBye2Yi, it would mostly be Republicans who support mass gentrification especially since they are opposed to affordable housing and homeless shelters.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
@ jerry
I “sound” like him because I’m using logic and reason. It’s funny how that works out.
Might want to spend more time on content and less time on weak accusations.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
One other thing, Republicans are the biggest supporters of corporate welfare especially since it was done a lot with Ronald Regan.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Tal u do know Ratner is a Dem, right?
November 7th, 2009 at 1:05 am
“This will make New York and its boroughs thrive! Competition is a good thing and at the end of the day the Barclays Center will turn Brooklyn, NY into a premiere destination.”
How people use this as a talking point when considering Newark as the alternative is beyond laughable.
Brooklyn will be just fine with or without the Nets.
However, Newark could really, really, really use the presence of an NBA franchise.
It would be a significant step toward a real estate critical mass.
In closing……………. All NY’ers & BK supporters, please spare us the “we need Atlantic Yards for jobs & such”.
Get in line.
The NEW JERSEY NETS would have a greater impact on the city of Newark than it would in Brooklyn & you know it.
You can’t pull the heart strings of those who support a Newark move with that nonsense.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:43 am
Hurry up and get this done.
People act like the government are throwing these people out on the street. They are more than fairly compensated.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:17 am
Sorry, there is no upside for this arena for Brooklyn. Please read this testimony from the New York City Independent Budget Office (2 page PDF document):
http://www.ibo.nyc.ny.us/iboreports/52909AtlanticYardsTestimony.pdf
In 2005, the IBO estimated the benefit of the arena to NYC to be $25 million over 30 years. Now, it’s a loss.
Due to lack of demand for condos the rest of the project won’t appear for two decades, if at all.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:39 am
@ BrooklynBound…
Reveal his identity? A little research on the internet would reveal it for you.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
@SmartNetsfan
No wonder Ratner is a democrat…. Look how is depending on on goverment intervention to support this privately owned arena. The only jobs this will create is low paying 10$ an hour jobs. Only Ratner and The new Russain owner will benefit from this. I will never give up my home to the goverment. How is this democratic. Now wonder we have a Russain owner this sounds like something Russia would do… Not here in America buddy!!
November 7th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Most people have left a long time ago. This clown Daniel Golstein is the only one who lives in a building with wife and kids. To put your family through this is sad. he was only living in the apartment for seven months when he decided to hang things up. Did everybody enjoy the Yankees Parade? Can you imagine starting the future Nets parade from Prospect Park down Flatbush Avenue pass the new Barclay Center right to Brooklyn City Hall. It will be a greater parade then the Yankees parade. They can have it on a weekend and you will see Brooklyn come out in numbers babay. Just Watch! Go Brooklyn Nets! Go Brooklyn Nets!
November 7th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
I am tired of everyone who keeps making personal attacks on Goldstein just for not wanting to give up his home when he chose not to sell it in the first place. I am still waiting for you supporters to answer how any of you would have felt if this was your property that a developer would threaten to take by eminent domain if you chose not to sell. If he and the rest of the opposition is so much against developement on the rail yards, then why do they back a plan known as UNITY? BTW, Tish James, another strong oppenent against this project, got re-elected in a landslide by having almost 93% of the votes especially when she won her nomination in the primaries over FCR puppet Delia Hunley-Adossa. As for the Yankees, I still hate them no matter what since I am a Mets fan. What would be even better than a parade from Brooklyn’s Borough Hall to a taxpayer subsidized arena such as Barclays Center would be a whole march in Newark for bringing the Nets to the heart of the state they belong in.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
@ openheads
See people like you truly don’t understand the economics of it. Barclays Center will bring boxing, basketball, concerts, family shows, etc. and all the small business’ around the area will get a benefit from it. Where will people eat before or after the event? Maybe they’ll do some shopping, etc.
Barclays Center is more than just the Brooklyn Nets at the end of the day. Also, no one is saying that Newark can’t get a basketball team. They’ll be a highly coveted option if the Nets move to Newark for the season before Barclays Center. It’ll be showcased to other teams like the Sacramento Kings, Milwaukee Bucks or Minnesota Timberwolves as a viable basketball arena option.
Barclays Center helps local business around that entire area. Housing will be put in place and Mr. Goldstein can move into another place. He’s not going to win his case and I’m sure the courts will put a final end to the whole situation to get the shovel in the ground. Barclays Center means BIG BUSINESS for that city and it’s local business’.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
I hate to say this kombayn, but professional sports facilities actually do next to nothing for local businesses. As a matter of fact, they are a driving force for mass gentrification. How many local business are right by MSG, Citifield, or even Yankee Stadium II? The answer is hardly any because many of them got priced out. Speaking of Ratner, he said similar things when he built MTC over in downtown Brooklyn. How well did that go? It turrned out that the complex was a money loser and many locals didn’t even get the jobs. Even though JP Morgan Chase did locate there, they didn’t hire those that were living there, they just relocated their existing employees, which I feel will be the same for the arena. BTW, downtown Brooklyn lost a lot of local business not too long after MTC was built, but the complex hardly got any tennants so the city and state governments located their agencies there just as the ESDC sits on the empty third floor of his failed Atlantic Center Mall.