Is Dwight Howard Overrated?
by Prokyswallet on Feb 4, 2012 7:22 PM EST
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According to a recently done ranking on Espn.com Dwight Howard is the #2 player in the NBA. According to Nets fans he is a super human hybrid of Shaq, Wilt and Russell who will save thier franchise. So we must ask ourselves, is Howard truly the #2 player in the world? Is he truly one of the best Centers to ever play in the NBA?
Lets break this down in two parts. First lets talk about his offense.
Dwight is currently in his 8th season in the NBA and is avg. 20.1 ppg good for 18th in the league. His career avg is 18.3 ppg and he's never avg more than 22 ppg. What about his post season numbers? They are basically the same. The only year thier was a noticible difference was last year when he avg. 27 ppg but that can be attributed to the strategy of the opposing team which was to let Dwight do what he wanted because they knew that by himself he wasn't going to hurt them and it worked as Orlando was eliminated in the first round.
I think its fairly obvious that Dwight was not rated the #2 player in the NBA because of his offense, from his stats and play we can tell that he is a good player on offense, a monster in the paint, but most of his points come from offensive rebounds and dunks. In the past year his offense has improved, but at age 26 hes pretty much peaked. He is not going to all of a sudden start avg 25ppg. If you look at great recent centers from the past Shaq, Zo,Jermaine, Duncan they all peaked at about age 26, they played great for years after that but that was when thier stats were at thier highest. Another disturbing stat every one of those centers had a definte dip in thier production after their 8th season...Which is even more alarming when you realize Dwights game is heavily based on his physical advantage in the post, he doesn't have a great jump shot or a sweet hook shot to fall back on, when he starts to lose a step it might very well get ugly fast. So Dwight might score around 20 ppg for the next few years but chances are, more likely than not, his numbers aren't going up anymore. If anything his stats will start to slowly go the other way. (yes 20 pts a game is great, but for someone who is supposedly the "#2" player in the world? Not so much.) One final note on his offense, Game 7 NBA finals a few seconds left Deron is throwing in the ball who do you want to take that last shot? Dwight or Brook? Unless its an alley oop you have to think Brook has the better chance of scoring don't you? (especially if they decide to foul....)
On to his defense. Can't really say anything bad about Dwight there. Hes in the top 3 in the league every year in blocks and rebounds and he just won his third defensive player of the year.
Lets look a little closer though. This year Dwight is 8th in the league in Blocks, yes 8th (5th now after that 8 block outburst friday night). I know Blocks don't tell the whole story when it comes to defense but that is kind of low for the "2nd" best player in the NBA. Especially when he has the bad habit of blocking shots so hard they go out of bounds and thus right back to the opposing team. Even more disturbing his blocks have gone down every year for the past 4 years.
As for his rebounding I only have one small nitpick as great as his numbers are experts agree that his numbers are somewhat inflated because before this year he didn't play with anybody who
was any good at rebounding. So keep that in mind when you are looking at
his rebounding numbers.
Is he the best defensive player in the NBA? Probably. Is he Head and Shoulders better than everybody else? No.
If everything you just read is true, then why is he rated so highly? How can he be rated #2 in the NBA? I Believe there are two reasons for this. The first reason is that he does everything Big His Blocks are big, constantly swatting them out of bounds with brute force, His dunks are vicious, when he was in the dunk contest he always put on a big show. Everything he does is big, everything he does is a highlight.So its only natural that we will see him as bigger than he really he is.
Reason number two is very simply luck. He came into the league at the perfect time for him. All the Great centers around were on thier decline. After a few years there was really nobody to compare him to. The only other center of his time was Yao Ming but he kept getting hurt.
Then luck struck twice as the new centers who came in also started getting
hurt (Bynum,Bogut and last year Brook was recovering from Mono and this year the foot injury)
So Dwight has not only been the best Center in basketball but we have had no one to really compare him to, so with no one to compare him to he becomes even bigger than what he really is.
I am not saying Dwight is not the best center in the game right now, he most definitly is. What I am saying is his value is not as high as people think. Take our Nets for example I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I say that Brook lopez is going to score more points than Dwight over the next 5 years. So the question to ask yourself is, Is Dwight Howards defense so much better than Brook's Defense that the Nets need to give up cap space, draft picks, Lopez and Brooks?
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Is Dwight Howard overrated?
ABSOLUTELY NOT
He is a HOF bound Center in his mid 20’s and he will instantly be the best Center and the second best player in franchise history if the Nets can get him, second only to Julius.
One more thing
Howard is not Hakeem, he doesn’t have Hakeem’s SF like athleticism, and he’s not Shaq or Wilt, he doesn’t have that kind of ridiculous raw power, but he’s very powerful and athletic for a big man, reminds me of Zo in his prime.
… and Zo was a great player before he got sick.
Howard's FT Shooting
is killing the Magic. He needs to improve, but he doesn’t. Greg Monroe was a terrible FT shooter, but worked on it and now it’s a strength.
If you lead the league in FT taken, you can’t suck this bad unless you are also the best offensive player in the league like Shaq was.
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If he could hit his FTs like at 65-70%
He will avg 26 ppg
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
but thats the problem he can't. and hes in his in his 8th season so hes not getting better any time soon
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
I know he can
He hit 67% his rookie year
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
7 years ago
why is this going to change all of a sudden now? don’t tell me Deron is going to help his FT%…
Hopefully the Nets organization will stress hid ft shooting more and have him work on it a lot
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
if he shot 70% this season
He would be scoring 2.6 pts more… So more like 24 ppg. Excuse me!
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 6, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Jason Kidd
Not close, either.
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#1
Not second to anyone.
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A few things
I agree with you in the sense that Dwight is not worth it in the sense that we give up Lopez, Swag, another player and picks. Def not. HIs offense is not very good, we all know that
However, his defense is amazing. You can not deny it. His rebounding numbers are very high, don’t try to down
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
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oops
*downgrade it.
But yeah, he’s def NOT #2 in this league.
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
Beware the Lopez
NY Giants Tribute
His rebounding numbers are very good agreed, like i said it was just a small nitpick.
i’m pretty sure if he played with good rebounders his numbers would not suffer that much.
don't forget
that popeye jones has made our big guys better every year… who knows what he can do with howard..
Overrated?
He’s the only player in the NBA who can change the culture of a team entirely. The defense of a team can go from the worst in the league to the best in the league with ONE SINGLE PLAYER. On offense he’s so strong that he can clean up everything and all of our misses will be collected for second chance points.
If anything Dwight Howard is underrated. Not enough people appreciate how he can change a team.
...
He’s the only player in the NBA who can change the culture of a team entirely.
LeBron James
I think it's fine.
by NetsMets4Life on Feb 4, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree. I believe Dwight is the only player in the NBA who can take the worst team in the league and make them contenders. He changes everything about a team. LeBron could be the greatest basketball player ever, but right now i firmly believe no one can change a team like Dwight Howard can.
LeBron
Took the worst team in the league to the finals. MUCH worse than the team Dwight got there with.
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Look at the Cavs w/ LeBron
and then w/o LeBron
that is all you need to see
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Did you forget last years Cavs
I dont see this yrs Magic as title contenders
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yes. on offense he is soooo strong that he avg. 20 pts a game.....
and last time i checked Rose, lebron, carmelo, kobe all score the same amount of points against orlando as they do against other teams. dwight can’t defend everybody his defense makes a difference but hes not changing a team as you say…if that was true Dwight would have plenty of rings by now..unlike lebron, dwight has had good teammates.
by Prokyswallet on Feb 4, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
right, hedo turkoglu and ryan anderson are superstars.
points is not the only stat. he offers great fg% and can take the burden off dwill.
orlando is consistently ranked highly in team defense, SOLELY BECAUSE OF HOWARD. their wing defenders are awful. hedo is a statue, but dwight can make up for them and make them a respectable defensive team LITERALLY ON HIS OWN.
i’m sorry, i really can’t take this post seriously.
of course he has great fg% how often do you miss a dunk, lay up or a tip in?
and yet he still only scores 20 pts a game. …yes this year he does not have a great supporting cast but he has had plenty of talented players around him before. again i’m not saying Dwight is not great on defense he is and he improves that team greatly on interior defense but thats it, hes not guarding the wings or guards your overrating his defense tremondously.yes he is an upgrade over Brook but no such an upgrade that you have to give up a great rookie in brooks, good draft picks, cap space and Lopez…
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
that's the thing though
he is guarding the wings and guards by preventing them from driving. teams drive significantly less knowing that howard is there protecting that rim
Is this why Joe Johnson had 18 ppg in the playoffs last year against Orlando the exact same PPG he had in the regualer season against everybody else?
or why Kobe avg 32.4 against them in the Finals, 6 pts higher than his season avg? or why Lebron avg. 30 ppg against the Magic last year? 4 pts higher than his season avg? Dwight is a beast on defense he really is but again my point is his defense as good as it is isn’t so much better than Brook’s that we should give up whole team, draft picks and cap space to get him.
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
it really is that much better than brook's
the magic are consistently ranked highly in the league in team defense, ENTIRELY BECAUSE OF DWIGHT HOWARD!!
Dwight Howard is obviously not going to stop Derrick Rose or Kobe
I thought that was obvious but i guess i’ll explain it. Dwight changes team defense in terms of changing shots, blocking shots, rebounding.
Dwight hasn’t won a championship because his supporting cast hasn’t exactly been great. I could make a legit argument that the best player Dwight has played with is Hedo Turkey Glue.
LeBron has played with Bosh, Wade, Shaq, etc. and hasn’t won anything yet. (And don’t make the excuse that he’s been in Miami for only a year)
yes he's overated
Great defender but I’d rather have Brook for offense.
With him and Deron they’ll still need a slasher to create imo.
Dwight hasn’t won a championship because his supporting cast hasn’t exactly been great.
Agree with this. The Magic weren’t good enough to win it all.
"I define passion as extreme emotion."
When you have to shoot, shoot don't talk.
once dwight gets the ball within five feet of the hoop, he's scoring
he has a dominance that brook can’t match, even on the offensive end.
Why he falls in blocks every year
Teams don’t drive on the Magic anymore. He single handedly turns the opposition into jump shooters. He is so much more valuable as a defender for what he PREVENTS from happening, rather than what he actually does.
If you look at his stats
you think “Damn not a bad player”
But its not a player you put your WHOLE FRANCHISE on the line. Its more than stats. Its the defense. Not stat-wise, its the points he prevents by just being there.
Not about the offensive game, he is dead on about that.
You put Bynum is his spot in Orlando and he scores more than Howard. Better post game as Utah is finding out even with their big frontline tonight.
Happy to see Billy King graduated in an accelerated "how to make a trade" class in just one night :)
He is not over rated
Think about this, when Lopez comes back do you see the Nets getting home court on the playoffs, if your roster stays put and Deron resigns what do you think the team potential is, as an outsider I think you guys could be on the mix for 6-8 seed with Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, Indiana and Magic better and having no chance of getting out of the first round.
Now if you change Lopez and Brooks for Howard. Deron + Howard is instantly one of the best 1-2 in the league, with Howard+Deron as your core you have at least improved to top 4 status in the East, possibly top 3 and with a chance of defeating any team in the East in a playoff series.
thats just it if you trade both those guys for howard thats all you have left a core
you won’t have money to build the rest of your team…the nets will be stuck in atlanta hawks hell of 4th or 5th spot for who knows how long
by Prokyswallet on Feb 4, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
and before you talk about players wanting to play for the nets for cheap, how has that worked out for the Knicks? or for Miami for that matter?
by Prokyswallet on Feb 4, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
what's better 4th or 5th seed or
what we have now, constant losing?
plus, we’d easily be a 3 seed with dwight and deron.
I could not possibly disagree more
This year Dwight is 8th in the league in Blocks, yes 8th (5th now after that 8 block outburst friday night). I know Blocks don’t tell the whole story when it comes to defense but that is kind of low for the “2nd” best player in the NBA.
if you think because of his BLOCK TOTALS dwight is overrated on defense you have never watched him play. howard’s impact defensively cannot be measured by stats. if you watch one game, you’ll realize that howard completely changes the game on defense. i understand criticizing his offense, but criticizing his defense is absurd.
is howard head and shoulders above the rest of the league defensively? watch one game, and you’ll see that he absolutely is.
i said he was the best defensive player in the NBA did i not?
the overrated comes mostly from his offense, i gave him his due for his defense, i even said he was the best in the league defensively. i just don’t think he is so that much better than everybody else that we need to give up the whole team to get him
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
yeah he's a Great individual defender and a stud in team defense helping his teammates....
…that’s why he’s so valuable e can hide some of teammates poor defense helping them.
And other thing, the Magic doesn’t has any other superstar, and even a guy that can drive strong to the basket demanding double teams, so they can leave Dwight open. (Like most of the points Hump gets by Deron driving to the basket atracting players and then dishing to Hump standing in the baseline).
They Magic play inside-out, they basically live by the 3’s and Dwight dunks, their game is put the ball on Dwight, if he hasn’t space and gets doubled and tripled team, then pass the ball until you find an open man.
The Nets have Deron and MarShon that can drive to the basket demanding double teams, if the opposition gets in the trap, they feed Howard that at the minimum open space jams the basket… If they not get in the trap and doesn’t double team Deron and Brooks well they kill them.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
because Brook Lopez can't do that exact same thing?
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Of course not...
Offensively yes, Brook along Deron and MarShon can demand double teams and open spaces to each other, but no way Brook can do that defensively. Sure his presence can improve Nets defense right now because or bigs s*ck, but you can’t even compare to Dwight’s presence and defense that’s just silly to even try to compare that I will not even argue why he is clearly miles away better
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
But even offensively Howard is a much more deadlier around the rim, when he gets a minimum space
…while Lopez needs some more space and gets blocked “many” times.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
But as far as post moves and working one on one,
Lopez is the best pure Center in the league doing that.
Only Al Jefferson and Pau Gasol have such arsenal, but they are primarily PF.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
agreed. when i said Brook could do the same i was refering to offense,
and again i have to point out, if offensivly they are going to give us the same productivty (and argubably Brook an give us even more offense) is Dwights Defensive precense so much better than Brook’s that we trade away half our team, draft picks and give up our cap space?
dwight is better on offense
if he gets the ball deep in the post there’s no stopping him.
he’s also developed a spin move and a jump hook in recent years
brook lopez is only in his 4th season and has increased his PPG every year
like i explained above Dwight is at his prime for a center his PPG is more than likely not going up anymore
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
for a center, ppg is far from the most important stat
and as i said many times previously, his impact cannot be quantified by stats
and like I said, he's doing that without any teammate that can drive to the basket, and any real PG like Deron
He can can average more points in our team…
And also he’s occupied with the defensive job, he can’t be the best defensive player in the game and still lead the league in scoring, that can’t just happen and he’s a Center he stays in the paint and can’t be always involved in offense like fastbreakes.
He’s a game changer there isn’t any doubts of that, and you will see it when Dwight leaves Orlando how they will be.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
His defense leads to offense for everyone else
Why does Hedo thrive in Orlando and suck everywhere else? Hmmm
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
10.1 ppg with sacramento. Thats not great
19.5 ppg with the Magic.
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
he was with Orlando during the prime of his career. hes only scoring 12 ppg right now
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Misguided Analysis
On defense especially. Time and time again in articles as well as interviews with SVG, it has been explained how the entire Orlando defense which is perpetually a top 5/10 unit is completely built around the defensive abilities of one, Dwight Howard.
hhhmmmm .... you think Dwight is overrated
yet you included Jermaine (O’Neal??) in your list of “great” recent centers?
OVERRATED DOES NOT MEAN HES IS A BAD CENTER! i am sorry for the caps but
people either dont bother reading or don’t understand english, i’m not saying hes a bad center just that hes not as great as most of you say he is. he is very good, he is the best in the league even, but the point i’m trying to bring accross to you all is that he is not shaq or chamberlain or Russell, hes not even duncan. but you all have him on this pedestal. he is not going to all of a sudden make this team a contender if we have to trade everybody to get him
yup, he did that with a worst team than he has now, but had Turk in his prime.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
you are wrong, very wrong...
once Dwight lands in New Jersey / Brooklyn we will be instant contenders.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
He is not overrated
Just look at the Magic line up and ask how in the hell did they even reach the 2009 finals. And how in the hell they are considered contenders in 2010-2011. Magic is a bad team, as in BAD team without Howard.
Look at D-Will now, K-Love and BG (last year), CB and KB the previuos years with a bad team, all of them are either out of the playoff picture or struggling to be in Playoffs.
in 2009, Rasheed Lewis and Hedu had one of thier best years and Jameer Nelson also
played very good basketball, that was a very good team, Dwight was not by himself. I don’t think they are consdired contenders this year not the way they have been playing this past two weeks.
and i have no idea what you are talking about in those last two sentances..who are CB and KB?
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
chrish bosh and kobe bryant
But in 2009, no one give them a shot, you can argue that both hedo and lewis played good, but they’re didn’t even warrant an allstar.
In the last sentence players like Dwill, Kobe, Bosh, BG, KLove with a bad team are either out of the playoff picture or struggling to be in Playoffs. But dwight careers the Magic at least a top 4 seed in the past 3 years.
Because the east is garbage. everybody knows that
in 2009 both Rashard Lewis and Jameer Nelson made the all star game
Howard's offense is not overrrated, just not maximized
We all know he is the best defensive center and player in the entire league but his offense has been underutilized.
Dwight knows a great PG like DWill can set him up a lot more on top of what he’s already doing with the opposing defense focused on him. Howard’s a 20ppg scorer but he gets just 13 FG attempts. The league’s top scorers like Durant and Lebron get around 20 shots, same with Duncan and Shaq in their prime.
How the hell can a PG like Nelson get only 5-6 assists all these years playing alongside a center like Dwight? Deron already gets 9 without a scoring center and our role players and scrubs.
All this funny talk about how Dwight is overrated, particularly on offense, will evaporate once he’s playing with Deron. Hopefully we’re just over a month away from watching that.
Nelson only gets 5-6 assists per game because Dwight can't score from more than 5 ft from the basket..
what about shaq? he never had a PG and still scored 29 ppg. or tim duncan? when he was scoring his highest Parker was just a rookie and only had like 5 assists as well or even closer to Home, Brook lopez was scoring 20 ppg in his second season with Devin Harris and his 6 assists per game.
and if your supposedly the #2 rated player in the NBA i don’t want to hear that you need a PG to play better offense,that right there proves my point that he is overrated.
Shaq and Duncan were way better on offense
But no where near dwight onD
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
It's because Nelson is mediocre
Shaq had no outside game but the Lakers set him up for 20 shots a game. He also had Kobe drawing defensive attention. Howard gets only 13 shots a game with the offense focused on him. That will change with DWill.
Doesn’t matter if you don’t want to hear about how a great PG can make it easier for Howard. Think Stockton to Malone. You’ll see when Dwight plays with DWill that his offense will go up. Hopefully not too long to wait now.
again, Howard had Rashard and Hedo in thier primes who were pretty good offensive players
so the defense was not always focused on him either. he has no offensive moves thats not going to change just because Deron is the PG. You act like Jameer is a total scrub, the knicks right now whish they had a PG like Jameer.
Again, Deron can set up Dwight A LOT more
The obvious examples are Hump and Morrow who have benefited from Deron’s presence. Howard’s offense will take a greap leap forward with Deron. Hopefully by March, you’ll see.
And the Knicks aren’t really such a great example LOL. Before Lin, they were thinking 2012 Baron Davis would save them, so yeah Jameer to them would be like Magic.
You say he is a "20 pt per game scorer"
Last season he averaged 22.9, virtually 23 ppg
Career wise i believe
but i think last season was the only time he avg’d above 22
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yes last year was his career high, this year he is back down to 20 ppg and his career avg is actually
even lower at 18 ppg
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
And the reason he is down to just over 20 this year is because
His free throw shooting has been abysmal!
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
It would be nearly impossible for me to state my full opinion on this FanPost, without going into a tirade. So I’ll just call this topic an epic fail of monumental proportions.
by BrooksBridges11 on Feb 5, 2012 10:12 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
This topic is not an epic fail.......
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
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i should have done this too
got caught up in how ludicrous this fanpost is
You guys are missing the big picture
Its not just about upgrading from Lopez to Howard.
Its about keep Deron Williams as well.
Its about going to Brooklyn with 2 superstars.
Its about getting a bigger fan community.
Its about being title contenders heading into Brooklyn.
Its about marketing the team with 2 supertstars.
Without Dwight Howard, Deron Williams is virtually gone.
BUT, it is also possible to acquire him through free agency.
BUT, if we were to fail to sign him in free agency (which I wouldn’t be too worried about) then the franchise is screwed for a long long time.
you win games you get marketing oppurtiny, i can see giving away a whole team if you have no stars
but we have 1 star in Deron already. and i really don’t think Deron is going anywhere even if dwight doesn’t come here. theres not really anywhere else he can go. not to mention he already said he was willing to pick his option. meaning that if we don’t get dwight hes giving us another year to see where we are going. and the franchise will be in pretty good hands with Deron, lopez, brooks, good draft picks, and plenty of cap space.
If you think Deron is staying without Dwight, you are sorely mistaken
And you say he has no where else to go? Uhh seriously? What about Dallas? There were already reports that if the Nets don’t get Dwight, he will go home to Dallas
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
only if Dwight goes there, otherwise you really think Deron is going to take 30 mil less to play
with an Aging Dirk and a bunch of other old players?
wow
if we don’t get dwight, deron’s gone. that’s a fact.
he wants to win.
and where is he going to go to win? what good team out there can afford him?
this is a good team without Dwight..obviously they are playing bad now with all thier injuries. but if this team was healthy they would be at least as good as the pacer or the sixers. with advantage of having more cap space and draft picks.
by Prokyswallet on Feb 6, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
You keep on saying that Dwight Howard’s offense is bad compared to centers like Shaq and Duncan. Lemme just throw some stats at you.
Shaq career FG%- .582%
Duncan career FG%- .507%
Dwight FG- .577%
How efficiently you score your points is almost as important as how many points you score. And Dwight is a lot more efficient than Duncan and almost efficient as Shaq. I will say that he is not Shaq, offensively. No one is Shaq, and I doubt there will ever be another Shaq.
Howard may not score 30 ppg like shaq but its because he take a lot less shots as well. Howard is very close to Duncan’s 25 ppg (his best season) and i wouldnt be surprised if he gets close to that with dwill. And duncan’s second best season was 23.3 which is just 0.4 more than dwight last season. Here are some stats comparing points scored to shots taken per game. These are career stats.
Shaq scores 23.7 ppg on 16.1 shots equaling 1.47 points per FGs attempted.
Duncan scores 20.4 ppg on 15.5 shots equaling 1.31 points per FGs attempted.
Howard scores 18.3 ppg on 11.1 shots equaling 1.65 points per FGs attempted.
Those are some pretty convincing stats that shows Howard is among the greatest scoring centers in NBA history.
are you serious? tim duncan was on the NBA all defensive first team 8
and all defensive second team 5 times!!! and people call me delusional?
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Well I believe Defensive Player of the Year is even better than all defensive team
How many Duncan has? And how many Dwight will still win?
Dwight Defense isn’t light years ahead of Duncan of course, but his is defense he’s better than Duncan and anyone in the league.
He will be considered one the best defenders of all time, if not the best.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
im not arguing that Dwight maybe be better than Duncan on defense
but mbspam17 said he was light years ahead of duncan and thats just false.
duncan never dominated defensively like howard does
don’t get me wrong, tim was a great defender, but he never intimidated anyone NEARLY as much as howard does.
i can only assume that you watch too much espn highlights
Tim duncan is one of the greatest defenders of his generation, next thing you know you are going to try to tell me that Dwight Howard is a better defender than Bill Russell.
by Prokyswallet on Feb 6, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Tim Duncan's a future HOF player
With a great b-ball IQ.
Howard has amazing athleticism but he’ll never be on Duncan’s level as a player.
"I define passion as extreme emotion."
When you have to shoot, shoot don't talk.
if he is so so great why does he attempt less FGs than the other centers?
because he has no offensive game outside of dunks, tips in and the occasional hook shot, if he was as good as you say he would get the ball more and he would score 30 pts a game and he would already have 3 rings. there is reason he doesn’t attempt more FGs he is just not that good offensly.
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I already said you, his offense will be even better, when he gets to the Nets...
and play with 2 teammates Deron and Swag that drive to the basket.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
right cause he didn't play with people who drive to the basket before...
like a certain rasheed lewis and more recently a certain Vince Carter…
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
oh and if we still have swag then i won't mind having Dwight. cause swag will pick up the slack on offense.
again i’m not saying Dwight is not great just not worth giving up the whole team, draft picks and cap space for
by Prokyswallet on Feb 5, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Its Rashard, not Rasheed
And yes i also dont think we should give all our assets because I really don’t think we need to. As long as we have DWill, D12 and MarShon on the Nets, I will be happy
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Lewis driving to the basket? in what world?
And Carter s*cked in Orlando, for some reason they traded him, he was old.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
He has been a jump shooter for some years, even when he was in the Nets the last season he already was a jumpshot,
he barely drived to the basket.
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
deron isn't driving to the basket on every play either and niether is Marshon
and don’t you want to trade the whole team for Dwight? that means Marshon will be in Orlando not driving to the basket for the Nets.
no, who said that?
Dwight wants the Nets, we can low ball Magic and get him cheap and that means Lopez and a bunch of picks, and maybe another player from other
2012 Lineup: D-Will - Brooks - AK47 - Lopez - D12... Book it!
Did you just say that he has no offensive game outside of dunks?
I guess those statistics above weren’t enough to convince you?
My last resort must be to show you a clip of his post moves.
If this doesn’t convince you, nothing will.
This clip shows that Dwight Howard DOES have an offensive game outside of dunks. There is just one dunk in is video, and dozens of post moves
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Heres the link
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=slOlB_LfB-o
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Doesnt work...
Just copy and paste the URL then
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
um i can give you Johan Petros highlight reel..does that mean he is a great offensive machine as well?
i can show you a link like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enuJrnd-1b8&feature=player_embedded
that shows him being bad at offense.
think about it if he was that good he would be scoring 30 pts a game like shaq. hes good offensivly but hes not great. which is my point.
Just showing that he DOES have a post game
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
And good luck finding a highlight reel of johan petro...
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 5, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
This guy...
Did you seriously compare Dwight Howard to Johan Petro???
by BrooksBridges11 on Feb 5, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
of course i didn't, its called sarcasm
im just bringing up a point that highlight real can be put together for any player, that it doesn’t prove anything
by Prokyswallet on Feb 6, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
No
Dwight Howard is that perfect mold of defense, offense, rebounding and athleticism in a 6’10 center.
Somebody said "FAIR WARNING"
I really dont know how people can say that Dwight is overrated
SMH!!!!
The guy is the most dominate player. The problem is he doesnt have the ball in his hand. That is why he wants to play with a PASS FIRST PG. Someone that is going to put the ball in his hand.
If he only averages 20 pts a game imagine how many points he will have with a Passing PG.
Official member of the "DO NOT TRADE MARSHON "SWAG" BROOKS" Society!
2 more points?
like i said a million times, shaq and duncan just to name 2 never had pass first PGs and still dominated on offense , Dwight is just using that as an excuse.
by Prokyswallet on Feb 6, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but their PGs and Gs
knew that they had to pass the ball to them.
That is the difference.
Even Kobe knew that Shaq had to get the ball. Shaq always complained about not getting the ball. Give the Big Man the Ball.
Unfortunately, Big Men PF or C dont handle the ball. There has to be a willingness by the Gs to pass the ball to their Big Man. The bottom line is when you have a Dominate PF or C he is suppose to touch the ball on every possession. He might not take the shot but the ball must come through him.
This wasnt happening when Harris was here. And Clearly it isnt happening in ORL.
There is a reason why Dwight wants to play with CP3 or Dwill. He knows that these guys are PASS first PGs. He knows that they will make an EFFORT to get him the ball. That is the bottom line.
Official member of the "DO NOT TRADE MARSHON "SWAG" BROOKS" Society!
The Sooner You Accept the Reality, The Easier the Transition!!
you really think the guards don't want to pass to Dwight? your kidding me right?
thats your reply? that the Guards don’t want to pass it to Dwight? bottom line if Dwight is as great offensivly as you say, he shouldn’t be making excuses about needing a better PG to pass him the ball. thats just ridiculous
No
They just aren’t good enough to get him the ball right under the basket like DWill can
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 6, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
we as nets fans are getting so spoiled
WE’RE THE NETS. RIGHT NOW, WE ARE THE BOTTOM FEEDERS OF THIS LEAGUE.
if we got dwight howard we would instantly be at the very least a solid playoff team, and yet people actually don’t want him!?!!?
without dwight, deron leaves. it’s not as if we have had superstars lining up to play with us. i actually cannot believe people do not want dwight howard here.
guess what if we had a healthy team
we would at the least be a playoff team, and we would have draft picks and cap space to improve on that, if we trade all of that to get Dwight, yes we would be a pla y off a team but how would we improve from that? im not against getting dwight, i’m against paying too much for him when we arleady have a pretty good center.
by Prokyswallet on Feb 6, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
lol I can't believe the amount of people that actually agree with this fan post.
This guy took a team to the finals by himself and has had his rank high with the top teams in defense. Lebron’s teams in Cleveland were great defensively but players there actually played defense where the only player that played defense with dwight was michael pietrus hahahahaha.
The most valuable aspect in a player is his ability to make his teammates better and he is certainly top two in that category and he’s a center…A CENTER. In the playoffs teams went as far as to just let him score because he was making his teammates look like beasts and they succeeded because those players are really bad so they were shot down. By the way this is why he wants out of Orlando and Deron Williams is the perfect player to play with because not only can he create his own shots score and shoot threes but he will get a bunch of extra points and bunch of extra points for the rest of the team. Question…if you put together arguably the top two playmakers in the league who happen play the most important positions in basketball, what do you get?
Overraded? Lol… Im leaning more toward underrated because the man hasn’t won an MVP yet which is a crime among crimes. He’s the only player along with Lebron that can play defense for the whole team and since he’s a center he can cover the lane at all time which means winning the rebounding and points in the paint battles which are essential in winning games. I don’t care how he compares to other players that are not here anymore because the only thing that matters is what’s happening now in front of my eyes which is a ONE MAN TEAM IN DWIGHT HOWARD!
hes a playmaker who avg 1 assists per game? sure. like i said before shaq and duncan just to name a
didn’t have pass first pgs and still dominated. Dwight is just being a baby and using that as an excuse for his poor offense. hes had better teammates than Lebron had (Lebron wishes he had Rashard Lewis and Hedo in thier primes), ..yeah “ONE MAN TEAM” who only made it to the finals once. hes the best center in the league right now i’ll give him that but that doesn’t make him the #2 player in the NBA and hes definlty not worth giving up a top 5 center in Lopez,a, promising rookie in brooks, draft picks and cap space. if we can get him for brook lopez and draft picks then sign me up i will go pick him up at the airport myself. otherwise its just too much. especially when you con sider the fact that he is in this 8th season playing the most demanding position in the NBA. Like i wrote in my origininal post history has shown us that his best years are probably behind him.
by Prokyswallet on Feb 6, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
He doesn't need to get the assist to actually be called a play maker.
He’s a great passer out of the double team something lopez is terrible at by the way. Howard is the main reason that team gets open shots and without him their like a chicken without a head. Lebron’s teams were better IMO, still bad though. Lebron played with Boozer, Mo Williams, Varejao who was the ultimate energy guy who played defence, Jamison who is still pretty good, and Ilgauskas who was a 13 and 10 guy for a while with lebron. Rashard Lewis was good but he was on his way down already and this was shown the next year when he was traded. In fact that entire that finals team got broken apart the next season in case you don’t remember. Turkeyglue was no where near the player he was with howard in any other team he played in even in his prime which proves my point of how howard makes players around him better. You surround Howard with three point shooters and he can do some damage but the problem with this is that the players they surrounded him with can’t play defense, and once other teams key in on the other players who can’t get open or create for themselves Howard is left without options. Lebron had a similar problem except those players actually played defense which is why they would win so many games. Why did Lebron only make it to the finals once in the year they were not looked at as title conteders? Because other teams were caught off guard and Lebron was able to get his teammates involved and take over at the end of games. Same thing happened with Howard’s team. The other years other teams started to see all they had to do is stop everyone else which is the same thing that happened to Dwight. If you think about it this isn’t even debatable. Just watch some tape, it’s not all about the numbers, in fact numbers are secondary when it comes to greatness.
Running backs in the NFL only average abot three years of playing in the league. Does that mean that after the third year you should value your franchise running back any less? I don’t care what happened with all those other centers. Dwight is 26 and has his best years ahead of him. his offensive game has gotten better every season and will continue to get better. History may show otherwise but howard is made of steel…he’s not fat or too skiinny and lanky like other centers. He’s actually built like lebron james so I don’t see any reason why his production will drop when he plays in Brooklyn with the best passer in the game.
right Hedo wasn't the same after he left...but neither were the magic they were also worse off for not have hedo
so your not really saying anything with that. and Lebron never played with all those players at the same time so stop it. Boozer left after Lebrons first year and Jamison played less than half a season with lebron and it wasn’t Jamisons finest. Mo Williams also only played like a year or two with Lebron.
i’m glad you don’t care about history. last i checked when Shaq and Duncan were 26 they were also built like beasts. its nature it happens. Dwights numbers are going to start to go down believe it or not.
Why would you want such a bad player then?
(this post is sarcasm in case you couldn’t tell)
lol only time will tell
People tend to believe only what’s right in front of there eyes so I guess you will have to see it with your own eyes.
How is it even possible to compare the defense of Brook and Dwight? They're lightyears away
Brook can block his shots but his mobility will always hinder him. Guys like Brad Miller used to kill Lopez!
I agree that Dwight is much better than Brook on defense
but my point is that if on offense they are at the very least equals, then that means that we are giving up a great rookie in brooks, draft picks, and cap space just for better defense from our center position? is that not a little much?
by Prokyswallet on Feb 6, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Better is an understatement, difference-making change is more appropriate
Dwight’s rebounding/defense makes an NBA defense. It allows perimeter players to commit mistakes and stay home on shooters, his interior D makes everyone on the team a better defender because he’s a safety blanket.
i cannot believe people are even going back and forth on this such stupidity if you think dwight howard is overrated you don’t watch nba you just read stuff on these sports websites… and don’t compare the nets possible big trade of howard to the knicks gutting of their team for melo they are such different situations melo and amare are not such a great fit together on the court as that has become more apparent as the season goes on meanwhile howard n Dwill fit perfectly together (look at the similar type of pairing in on the clippers) gutting this team for dwight will not had a negative impact like the knicks trade last year. i would compare a trade for dwight more to the clippers than the knicks dwight and deron are a different breed of players from melo and amare from the get go bc dwight and deron have always been leaders and winners while amare and melo have always been entertaining stars but have not necessarily been guys who are known for winning and willing their team to victory
um remind me what Dwight has won again?
and if the Nets give up as little as the Clippers did to get Paul then thats great. its trade thier whole team for Dwight like the KNicks did for Carmelo that i’m not agreeing with
by Prokyswallet on Feb 6, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree
your headline isnt the best choice but your arguments are right. Yes Howard is the best Defender and maybe the best center in the nba but his offensive skills are not that strong that i would offer the whole team for him
Did you see VC
by GermanNet on Feb 6, 2012 1:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
this is so pointless
Dwight is a beast and a huge super star and would actually make the Nets relevant idk why you guys are so quick to defend lopez he averaged god damn 6 rebounds last year….and in case you haven’t noticed we haven’t had a winning record since 2005…so stop trying to defend the players that we have had on our team because all we do is LOSE and LOSE and LOSE and LOSE and LOSE some more
Remember Nets fans our record in 2009 was 12-70
12 and 70.......................
The fact that we have Deron and a chance at Dwight is a miracle
and he avg. 8.5 the two years previous
last year he was weak and recovering from his illness. that fact that he still got 6 rebounds a night is a good thing.
I dont think you understand
he’s not saying Dwight is bad, or Lopez is better
He’s saying tht he’s not worth Lopez, Swag, 2+ draft picks, and probably another player just for him
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
Beware the Lopez
NY Giants Tribute
But the thing is, he's wrong
Dwight is well worth Lopez, Swag, 2 picks plus filler. Dwight has made the Magic a winning team essentially by himself for the past several years. A dominant player (especially to pair with a top PG) is worth a litany of #3 caliber options any day. I would love to keep Swag but if you think that’s worth passing on Howard, you are nuts IMO. Howard isn’t flawless but he’s a game changer on defense and with an elite PG rather than a POS one like Jameer Nelson setting him up, his offense will trend up too. Deron’s drive and find game with Hump is already sweet, can you imagine Howard setting the pick then rolling to the basket with Deron getting into the lane and finding him? D12 will be scoring like 10-14 points a game on dunks alone.
by J-Nasty on Feb 8, 2012 8:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lopez is a #3 caliber option? Sorry, didn't know that
Didn’t you all adore Swag for his massive potential to be an All-Star?
D12 will be scoring like 10-14 points a game on dunks alone.
That’s all he CAN do on offense
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
Beware the Lopez
NY Giants Tribute
Exaggeration
most of his points come from dunks and layups
and his 8-20 from the FT line
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
Beware the Lopez
NY Giants Tribute
This isn't helping your argument.
most of his points come from dunks and layups
Should he be shooting threes?
"No one in football has swagger like the 'lowercase ny' Giants!"
by BrooksBridges11 on Feb 9, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
He's got no shooting touch
clog the paint and you greatly diminish his offensive ability
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
Beware the Lopez
NY Giants Tribute
watch basketball much? how you jump from dunks and layups to shooting 3s?
theres a million other ways to score..mid-range jumpers, hook shots, do i need to go on? oh and Dwight can’t do any of them…
by Prokyswallet on Feb 12, 2012 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
Dunks, layups, hook shots, mid range jumpers
They are all worth 2 points
by netsfanrasmus on Feb 12, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Because before we got Deron, Brook was the only player who qualified as an NBA starter
i would have liked to see Dwight on that 12 win team, thye wouldn’t have been much better. everybody sucked, they had cleared the team out to make cap space.
that is hilarious. they would have won 18 more games? with that roster?
who on that roster outside of Humphries and Devin Harris is still even playing more than 10 mins a game anywhere in the NBA? thats how bad that roster was, 2 years later and most of that team is out of the NBA or playing very limited minutes.
yeah, they were awful
but that team had such bad defense. so bad. howard would have completely transformed that
It's not like there are only twelve players in the league.
who are averaging more than 20PPG.
"No one in football has swagger like the 'lowercase ny' Giants!"
by BrooksBridges11 on Feb 9, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
If there is something that I would knock about Dwight is that he isn't aggresive
enough on offence and that he needs to demand the ball more. Dwight doesn’t average 20 ppg because he’s nicapable of averaging more pts, but because he doesn’t go out there with the mentality to score. Dwight howard has developed some legitimate moves down low (watch his games this seaon) and he can’t be stopped even if he gets doubled. Once he’s in a Net uniform everyone will see just how good he really is offensively and he still has room for improvement so don’t be surprised if he’s even better once he’s a Net.
Having said that Lopez is still better offensively
I just mean that Dwight is no pushover on the offensive side of the ball and is actually pretty good
there is only one Howard
but there are a lot of marshon in the league. remember oj mayo’s rookie season is as good as it gets(he was even considered the next kobe) but look what happened. marshon might put up good rookie numbers, but he might end up like mayo. Howard is a superstar!
by letsgolal on Feb 8, 2012 8:04 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
oh no, we're trading away key pieces from AN 8-18 TEAM
by mbspam17 on Feb 8, 2012 9:42 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
maybe so, but you get nowhere in this league being a 5-8 seed
plus, we all know dwill is gone if we don’t get dwight
well, that won't happen
because if we don’t get dwight, deron is outta here
no hes not. thats just media driven drivel. the only team i would worry about for Deron
is Dallas, if they somehow have enough money for Deron and Dwight, then i can see Deron leaving. if not then where would he go? he has brook lopez, brooks, Ammo, hes going to a big market, plenty of cap space draft picks, great relationship with Mgnmt oh and an extra 30 mil if he stays. Seriously think about it, where would he go? none of the good teams can afford him and which of the teams that can afford him have as much as potential as the Nets?
by Prokyswallet on Feb 9, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you know what man
i’m done arguing. we both have good points on our arguments, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
That risk is not something BK is willing to take
He will do whatever he can to get dwight but he’ll try to keep as much as possible.
Even if you look at it in an optimistic way chances that Dwill stays if dwight or bust fails is 50/50 at best. He said he doesnt want to be part of a rebuilding process and that’s what it will be without dwight. Dwill is 27 and he really can’t be wasting 2 or three years just to be relevant in the east. Dallas is his hometown and dirk is there, not to mention that they’ll have space to sign a free agent like Crash. I also wouldn’t count other teams out like portland for example they still have the amnesty and may be able to squeeze him in somehow. This franchise is in no position to gamble with this dwight thing and will do whaat it takes to get dwight to be a Net.
A Team of DWill, Lopez, Brooks, AMMO, 2 first rounder and about 23 Mio of cap space isnt a rebuilding process. If we dont get Dwight Billy has a ton of other options to make this team a contender. By adding players like Josh Smith, Andre Igoudala or even Gerald Wallace we would be a an conference finals team.
Imagine a starting lineup of :
DWill-Brooks-#1-JSmith-Lopez
Better then:
DWill-Ammo-Hedo-VetsMin-Howard
Did you see VC
by GermanNet on Feb 10, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Middel of the pack team at best and that's if marshon develops quickly
by sipitioking on Feb 10, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
your judging this team by the way its playing right now..full of injuries an all
if this team was healthy it would be an 7th seed or 8th seed and thats without adding anything, you add a draft pick and a good SF we can add in the off season with all the cap space the Nets will have…thats easily a third seed team and if Marshon develops quickly who knows how much better they can be. Do you realize this team is playing with only two healthy starters? of course its going to look like crap.
by Prokyswallet on Feb 12, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
that was not a bad team, that team would have made it to the playoffs without Dwight.
they had Rashard and Hedo in thier primes and Jameer was an all-star that year. Dwight took them to Finals but he had plenty of help.
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