No Workout? No Problem at Draft
by Net Income on Jun 5, 2011 8:59 AM EDT
in 2011 NBA Draft
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PrintOn Draft Night 2008, there was division within the Nets "war room" as the 10th pick approached. Kiki Vandeweghe liked Robin Lopez, the big Stanford defender who had done well in his Nets' workout. Others liked Jerryd Bayless, the 6'3" combo guard whose skill set replicated Devin Harris but was seen as too good to pass up.
Then, as the Bobcats were about to make their pick at #9, things changed. Robin's brother, Brook, was falling, mostly due to concerns with his Pre-Draft Combine numbers. He had finished last in a couple of skill tests. That didn't seem to deter Michael Jordan, picking for Charlotte. The Bobcats even called Brook Lopez's agent to tell him to pack his bags for Carolina. He was going to be the Bobcats center of the future.
Then, the unexpected happened: Larry Brown begged Jordan to take a point guard, D.J. Augustin. Jordan agreed and after a mini-discussion, the Nets went with Brook over Robin. The Nets had never had Brook in. He had declined, thinking he wouldn't fall that low. Sometimes things work out.
"That’s why you do your homework and do your work," Billy King said Thursday, conceding that could happen this year too. "Our scouts have been out. You don’t just rely on (workouts) as your basis for drafting. "By now, you’ve seen the players in person, watched video, received reports from your scouts."
- Getting Inside - New Jersey Nets - Sports Xchange
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It amazes me how
we got the tenth pick, meaning the other 9 teams in front of us were in worse situations than us record wise, and now with the exception of the T-Wolves, all 8 teams have made more progress and had more sucess than we have since that draft. In fact 7 of the 9 have made the playoffs, and at the time were in worse situations than we were but have still made more progress than we have.
why are you amazed
The Nets ownership in 2009 went into a massive cost-cutting and declined to invest in the team. No NBA team was losing as much money (and that may still be true). No pro sports team had as much debt compared to equity that the Nets had (and still have) The collapse in the economy made things worse. The team was for sale.
People forget these things.
I realize we were cost cutting
and forget the word amazed, just looking back on it, to me it’s just unacceptable.
by The Big Russian on Jun 5, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
it's certainly understandable
Ratner’s parent company was in real danger of bankruptcy. Atlantic Yards was a bet the company move. They almost lost it.
It seems like all of the Nets' mis-fortunes have turned into fortunes:
Ratner’s Debt = Mikhail Prokhorov
12-70 = Avery Johnson and Billy King
- 3 pick (not getting #1) = Deron Williams
Not getting Carmelo also = Deron Williams
Playing in NJ = move to Brooklyn
Troy Murphy’s terribleness = Kris Humphries
T-will’s inability to listen = Sasha Vujacic and #27 pick
by The Big Russian on Jun 5, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The only thing I cant find a positive for is TRAVIS OUTLAW
by The Big Russian on Jun 5, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
you forgot...
T-will’s inability to listen = Sasha Vujacic and #27 pick and 2012 lottery protected pick
Also by getting the Lakers to put only minimal protections on this years pick (1-18), King preserved the Nets right to trade their own first round pick in the 2012 draft….can’t go two drafts without a guaranteed first round pick. Not well known part of that deal.
Doesn't matter... Even if they hadn't gotten that pick,
the Nets could trade their own 2012 pick after this year’s draft night… that rule only applies to future picks, and after the 2011 draft day that pick we owe Utah would no longer be taken into account when applying the rule, thus allowing us to trade our 2012 pick after that day.
it gave them FLEXIBILITY
you can write up all the machinations you want, but at this point in time, they can trade their 2012 pick, which if they didn’t do that deal, they couldn’t have.
You need to read Coon's CBA FAQ
Machinations? It’s you who’s trying to spin this to make that deal look better… but reality is that even if the Nets hadn’t made that deal, they could still trade their own 2012 pick after this year’s draft night. Your statement that they couldn’t trade their 2012 pick if they didn’t do that deal is flat out false. The rule only applies to future picks.
Well,
technically, I’d say that once the 2011 draft pick is made, it’s not longer considered a future pick. Anyway, is it important that the trade is made on draft day or the day after (when the 2011 pick will not be a future pick anymore, allowing the team to trade their 2012 pick)?
i could be reading it the wrong way...
but, i think it means that we can trade our 2012 pick as part of a draft day deal this year. without the aforementioned trades, we would not have been able to include this pick in any deal until after the draft
Which realy makes no difference
Does it really matter that a trade is made on draft day or the day after?
Also, we won’t have the cap space available until July (if there’s a new CBA in palce), thus complicating any trade scenario, since you can say the instant relief our ability to take on salaries without having to match the incoming player’s salary is our biggest trade asset.
what are you arguing about here
Would have preferred to keep Williams here?
Lets get to the bottom of this so this.
1)Do you think that the Nets could have received more for Williams?
2)Do you think that the Nets should have kept Williams
Please answer those two questions.
by MrDollarBills on Jun 5, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
What I'm arguing here
is that what Net Income was pointing out to is IMMATERIAL (as he himself likes to say) and false, one of the supposed advantages (if it had any at all) of that trade isn’t the ability to trade our 2012, since we could have still moved it after draft day. Simple as that.
uh huh
just say that you don’t like the trade because you are a fan of the person that was shipped out.
We traded our first rd pick for this year to get Deron
Due to the trade, we can now trade our 2012 1st rd pick because you CANNOT trade 1st rd picks in back to back years
Net Income is not being dishonest. You just don’t like the trade because you like that douchebag Terrence
by MrDollarBills on Jun 5, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You obviously don't know the rules
Even if the Nets had not made the trade, they could still trade their own 2012 pick after this byear’s draft. That is a fact. Read Coon’s CBA FAQ and get a clue about what you’re talking about before calling out people.
True or false
you cannot trade 1st rd picks in consecutive years
by MrDollarBills on Jun 5, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
The rule only applies to FUTURE picks
Read the rules.
After this year’s draft, the Nets could trade their 2012 pick. Not that hard to understand.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm
answer #74
The Stepien rule applies only to future first round picks. For example, if this is the 2005-06 season, then a team can trade its 2006 first round pick without regard to whether they had traded their 2005 pick, since their 2005 pick is no longer a future pick. But they can’t trade away both their 2006 and 2007 picks, since both are future picks. Teams sometimes work around this rule by trading first round picks in alternate years.
And yes,
I think the Nets could have received more for him if they had combined him with a big expiring contract like Murphy and had been willing to take on more salary, which they didn’t. But that’s another story and discussing that was not my intention when I corrected what Net Income said.
that's a joke
Williams had next to no value.
He wasn’t doing a damn thing on the court that made him valuable
if he was this frickin stud like you want to pretend that he is, Adleman would have played him. He’s not.
by MrDollarBills on Jun 5, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Marc Stein disagrees with you. Right after the Nets announced they were sending Williams to Springfield, he reported Williams had plenty of trade value. People around the league, including rival team’s scouts, are quoted as saying they loved the kid. He was devalued after the dleague demotion, but they could have done better if they had combined him with Murphy’s expirer, but they were too worried chasing a player that would never play for us.
Marc Stein's word isn't gospel
and if there was a better deal out there for Williams, King would have made it
teams probably weren’t offering much.
Everyone saw that he had potential
His own attitude and ignorance limited him
Johnson and Adleman glued him to the bench. I predict that McHale will do the same. And then, you’ll blame him as well for Terrence’s own shortcomings
by MrDollarBills on Jun 5, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
They didn’t want to use Murph’s expirer until the Melo situation got resolved.
Look at what was needed to get Gerald Wallace out of Charlotte. Larry Brown loves TWill, btw.
Net Income is trying to spin it to make the deal look better
You’re trying to spin it to make the deal look worse
here’s the bottom line Andres: WE GAVE UP NOTHING to get two draft picks. Terrence Williams had no future here, and apparently, in the NBA either.
See what happens if Williams pulls his tired, childish act with Kevin McHale in charge down there in Houston.
by MrDollarBills on Jun 5, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
oh lord
I knew as soon as T-Will was mentioned an argument would ensue
the dude doesn’t play for us, and will probably be out of the league soon. let it go.
by MrDollarBills on Jun 5, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I was only correcting a false statement
As for Wiliams, I think I will trust Morey’s opinion here, sorry, nothing personal.
Houston has a blog of it's own
where you can fawn over Terrence at your leisure
We wasted a draft pick on him.
He didn’t have enough respect for the team to even show up on time
He played like a coward when he was on the floor and never attacked the basket, but injured himself in practice trying to dunk on people
No one gives a damn about T-Will except for you, and that’s why every time the Houston/Lakers picks are brought up you start trying to throw King under the bus. It’s ridiculous.
by MrDollarBills on Jun 5, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Again
What is the problem with me correcting a false statement?
You, Net Income and anyone here can believe it was a good trade for us, but even if you do, what NI pointed out to isn’t one of the benefits from that trade, since the Nets could have moved their 2012 pick after the draft anyway.
it was a good trade
trading a worthless player for an asset is always a plus
by MrDollarBills on Jun 5, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
this
That was an outstanding Nets draft. CD-R was on pace for an all star kind of year before the Nets decided to trade him for nothing. He was a steal as well.
WHEN YOU DESCRIBE the prototypical NBA center, he is not complete without superlative size, strength and athleticism. He’ll fight for the tough rebounds in the trenches, but is just as quick to burn you with a shot from 15 feet.
Johan Petro possesses all of these skills and more, and at a mere 23 years of age, he bears all the promise of fulfilling his vast potential.
woah
CD-R never played that well.
love thy underdog
by lemmetakeutodamovies on Jun 5, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You are WAY overrating CDR. I would rather have kept Terrence of the two. Terrence has the ability and athleticism to frustrate other teams best scorers.
We could have used him for our future Finals runs against teams like Miami. Put him on Wade or Lebron and be confident he would help to contain one of them.
LETS GO NETS!
when we were 0-18 to start the year
CD-R was averaging 20 ppg and 5 rebounds along with 4 assists. He was the best Nets scorer and maybe there best player on a banged up Nets team. Then Frank left and he got traded and his progress dropped greatly. Im not way overrating CD-R i just know the information.
WHEN YOU DESCRIBE the prototypical NBA center, he is not complete without superlative size, strength and athleticism. He’ll fight for the tough rebounds in the trenches, but is just as quick to burn you with a shot from 15 feet.
Johan Petro possesses all of these skills and more, and at a mere 23 years of age, he bears all the promise of fulfilling his vast potential.
It'll be interesting to see if BK tries to move up if he sees another guy drop
- & #36 and $3M is a start in a deal but we’d have to sweeten it more depending on how high up we go. That package would get us to 17 tops. I wonder where Farmar, D.James AND the 2picks/cash would land us? Maybe 9or10 or is that just crazy wishful thinking?
Were they saying "Boo" or "Boo-urns?"
@SlayerSantana on Twitter
i think you have to look at team needs
Say a team in the middle of the first round needs a point guard and is looking at the draft and seeing nothing and then looking at a 24 year old with two rings and the capability of scoring 28 or passing out 17 assists (both of which Farmar did this season). Also, if you add $3 million, you’re basically paying Farmar’s salary.
That was supposed to say #27 & #36 but autocorrect boned me
Also, I wonder if we could sweeten a deal by puying other picks and adding them to that aforementioned package
Were they saying "Boo" or "Boo-urns?"
@SlayerSantana on Twitter
Which one is more realistic
Westbrook for Paul or Lopez for Howard?
"I think I’m the best point guard in the league. No reason. I just think I’m the best.’’-Deron Williams.
Westbrook for Paul
simply because New Orleans needs a scoring PG, and OKC needs a pass first, but still good scorer type of PG. Plus, that’s probably the most NO can get for Paul if they are looking to trade him.
WHEN YOU DESCRIBE the prototypical NBA center, he is not complete without superlative size, strength and athleticism. He’ll fight for the tough rebounds in the trenches, but is just as quick to burn you with a shot from 15 feet.
Johan Petro possesses all of these skills and more, and at a mere 23 years of age, he bears all the promise of fulfilling his vast potential.
yes. i dont know why people act like new orleans has a 90 mil payroll
and that they wont add pieces. new orleans is not a dump city just recovering from katrina. and chris paul makes EVERYONE look better
jannero pargo, rasual butler, morris peterson, hilton armstrong, aaron gray, etc he could make outlaw look like a starter.
another post defender and a marcus thornton that could play defense. its a shame he got hurt though last year. cp3, collsion, and thornton could have wreaked terror on the league
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jun 6, 2011 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol
I love how Brook didn’t want to work out with the Nets because he didn’t think he’d fall that low
Brook Lopez is the MAN!
That sucks for MJ and the Bobcats.
WHEN YOU DESCRIBE the prototypical NBA center, he is not complete without superlative size, strength and athleticism. He’ll fight for the tough rebounds in the trenches, but is just as quick to burn you with a shot from 15 feet.
Johan Petro possesses all of these skills and more, and at a mere 23 years of age, he bears all the promise of fulfilling his vast potential.
Why did we ever trade CD-R? I’ve always thought that was a really stupid trade. And i wish we could get Twill back too.
WHEN YOU DESCRIBE the prototypical NBA center, he is not complete without superlative size, strength and athleticism. He’ll fight for the tough rebounds in the trenches, but is just as quick to burn you with a shot from 15 feet.
Johan Petro possesses all of these skills and more, and at a mere 23 years of age, he bears all the promise of fulfilling his vast potential.
by i says on Jun 5, 2011 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
we had a bunch of fragile egos on a traumatizing/toxic team
nobody wanted to put up with the nets mess anymore after last year.
lee didnt want to stay anymore. the year before RA was traded because kiki thought YI would pan out better. cd-r was dissapointed at how much his PT dropped with kiki as coach and he wanted out. t-will the only one who didnt put up crap but i guess because he created some self-entitlement as the nets main attraction and you know the rest
and i think dooling is the only “vet” still on an active roster. i know simmons got cut for quinn is san antonio. boone and swat overseas. hassell and hayes went unsigned and likely went overseas. alston went unsigned. Yi rots away in washington
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jun 6, 2011 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions
WOW !!!!!
I hope that the Nets do more research this time and we don’t end up with the wrong Lopez again………
Are you seriously suggesting that we should have picked Robin over Brook?
Also your overrating Robin’s defense by quite a bit. And ya Brook lost his shoe twice last season. I would rather he lose his shoe a couple of times then be constantly injured (robin). And Brook has good hands so don’t know what you are talking about there. I think you are trollin.
Robin is nothing special.
Brook is extraordinary on offense, he must work on his defensive presence and winning mentality.
LETS GO NETS!
What?
I don’t mean to be mean but that may be the dumbest thing i’ve heard.
WHEN YOU DESCRIBE the prototypical NBA center, he is not complete without superlative size, strength and athleticism. He’ll fight for the tough rebounds in the trenches, but is just as quick to burn you with a shot from 15 feet.
Johan Petro possesses all of these skills and more, and at a mere 23 years of age, he bears all the promise of fulfilling his vast potential.
My point is that Robin to me doesn't do anything extraordinary; including his defense.
Brook has an unbelievable offensive game. He needs to toughen up on the defensive side and unfortanately, he has been apart of three losing seasons with us, which, has messed with his confidence. He must stop accepting losing and play with a mindset that he can take over a game and win! He has that ability to do so.
LETS GO NETS!
Hold on. What?
Hahahahaha
"I just copped me an all-things, a professional ball team
Tell me I ain't the illest hustler ya'll seen"
Do you watch basketball?
or just do your best troll impersonation on these forums?
Because not a single person would say Robin Lopez is better, or more valuable, than Brook Lopez.
Jesus.
You act like
He’s the only one that was high on Kwame.
Back in 2008
If Brook hadn’t fallen to us, Anthony Randolph was my number 2 option… I also liked JaVale McGee.
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