Battle Over, But Not Divided Opinion
by Net Income on May 29, 2011 1:22 PM EDT
in Brooklyn
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Opinion over a Nets arena in Brooklyn has always been divided. At the beginning, large rallies were held in places like Prospect Park; funds were raised in Brooklyn and elsewhere and a multitude of legal actions were filed but failed. Still, polls never showed the project to be unpopular in Brooklyn...or in the city.
Now, there's but one lawsuit still out there and it won't affect the arena's progress. Most people seemed resigned to the prospect and some, like this artist on a lazy Saturday, seem to be embracing it. Still, the controversy endures. The latest evidence: the release of a documentary on the entire seven-year long battle, which is getting good reviews while architectural critics continue to give the overall plan bad reviews.
- Court fight: Story of the battle over a basketball arena opens Brooklyn Film Festival - Joe Neumaier - New York Daily News
- New documentary 'Battle for Brooklyn' details the fight over the Atlantic Yards project - Michael O'Keefe - New York Daily News
- On Lopate, Witold Rybczynski said Atlantic Yards shows "how the developers, in a sense, are taking the lead in being planners" - Norman Oder - Atlantic Yards Report
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There will be people complaining when the arena is opened.
It’s a fact of life at this point.
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
Maybe if it didn’t look so much like a giant rattlesnake Brooklyn residents wouldn’t be so up in arms. From the renderings it seems more fit to be in Vegas than in Brooklyn.
meh
they were up in arms with it when gehry was on board. the look has very little to do with it.
It would have helped if Ratner wasn’t a total d-bag over everything.
The look will be the permanent impression on Brooklyn. If it looked great and worked great the residents would probably eventually forgot all the nonsense that went down. As it is, I don’t think anyone will ever forget.
Lets wait till it opens
and see what it looks like. Now if it looks like a snake or a serpent, the Nets can market their arena as “the Belly of the Beast”!
and at the end of the day, the critics are a relatively small group of people living near the arena. If the larger population of the borough and the city find it a good thing, what happened on the road to the reality will be forgotten.
that's because its not built yet...
you can’t critique a building for being in the process of getting built
Also I’m not sure you know the Brooklyn Area. There is some marvelous architecture in the borough which most residents are very proud of, even in the ghetto eastern parts. This is not an example of such architecture.
Again, talking about the final renderings.
well, sucks for people who dont like it.
too bad.
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on May 29, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This attitude will lead to contraction if the majority of the borough doesn’t end up liking it (not saying that’s the case). Public Funding can always be eliminated. But hey! Sucks for people who don’t like that! They can just stay in NJ with the Devils… and uh… I guess the other NY sports teams whose stadiums didn’t fit in NYC.
based on what?
really, based on your opinion that it’s bad architecture.
Brooklynites are not going to go to games because they don’t like the exterior.
Hipster foolishness.
It will be modern architecture
We will call it, new manhattan. That whole area will get a face lift. My question is, when/where will it end? Hugh building will go up and expand . Where would you list a cut off point?
by Zartan on May 29, 2011 4:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the corner of Flatbush and Atlantic
is the third biggest transportation hub in the city, after midtown and the financial district. There is no better place in the city for a large scale development.
Is it any more dense that the west side of Midtown, where high rise residences are sprouting blocks away from available subway stations? The critics liked to say that if it were its own zip code it would be more dense than the most dense zipcode in the country. I never saw a comparison with the area of midtown from 8th over to 12th between 40th and 47th street.
The density argument is probably a sham anyways. Nobody expects it to be as dense as originally planned. The real issue is transportation and infrastructure right now. Yeah, the LIRR and MTA runs through there, but its nowhere near prepared. Nor are the streets.
That means more imminent domain for very little low to moderate income residential improvement. Brooklyn isn’t all ritz and glamor like 72st and below Manhattan.
nowhere near prepared????
based on what???
If you have any information to suggest it won’t be ready, push it out.
The Transit Connection at the door step of the arena is even further along than the arena, according to the consultants for the bondholders…two months ahead of schedule.
The LIRR terminal is already completed…a year ago…with the increased load factored in. Platforms are being or already have been improved. There will be more frequent subway service before and after games, the transit plan for the arena includes various “egress” routes after the game so that one exit isn’t overloaded. Most of this has been reported on this site, this weekend.
iunno but this looks hot to me......
by blazin pp face on May 29, 2011 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Again obviously not from the neighborhood. You would probably like the stadium if it looked like a giant YMCA as long as the Nets played there.
So why are you voicing an opinion about something in a neighborhood you have no stake in?
My 88 year old aunt thinks its great that they are putting a sports team in Brooklyn.
You are mistaken if you think your opinion and those alike it will have an impact. There is not much else to be said besides deal with it.
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on May 29, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
neighborhood???
IT’S NEW YORK CITY.
That’s the problem. This isn’t about some neighborhood (and which “neighborhood” are we talking about…the south side of the arena or the north side, which are two very different places).
It’s about the city, the CITY.
Brooklyn today, like most of the city, is radically different than it was in 1970…or 1950 or 1930. It’s about dynamism. Deal with it.
Neighborhood
I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss Erniesto as if he doesn’t know what he’s talking about—he does have a point, as do you.
Yes it is New York City and 2011, but whether it’s foolish or not, many Brooklynites still, have strong neighborhood affinities. That’s one of the wonderful, enduring truths about the borough.
And there’s the rub.
Many folks have been applying NYC (read: Manhattan) rules to a borough which has continually blurred the lines b/w being its own entity and a part of NYC. Ask your average Brooklynite where he’s from and he’ll say “Brooklyn” not “New York City.” Then he’ll get to talking about his neighborhood. You know the deal…
AY and the Barclays Center will indeed radically alter the area (PH, PS, BH, FG). This is certainly the biggest move since MetroTech in the “Manhattanizing” of downtown Brooklyn. Some see the development as dynamism. Others lament the the fact their neighborhood could lose its soul. Both are legit POVs.
Ultimately, I think it’s all going to work for the best. We’ll see.
again, WHICH neighborhood?
the north side or the south side. One key argument in the cases was that the Yards divided the borough and was a gash on the landscape.
To argue without the attraction open is a bit foolish. People may embrace it.
I specifically mentioned the bordering neighborhoods above (see abbreviations).
-
Personally, I’m not really buying their argument that AY will bisect the borough—BK is way too big to sell that story to me. I see this project more as dropping a rock in a pond having a ripple effect on the surrounding area.
I don’t think there’s anything foolish about arguing before it’s open—not everyone will always be for a project. What are they supposed to do? Wait ‘til it’s built if they don’t want an arena? The arena will still be there. The opposition does have 2 non-arena counter-proposals for the site — they look like cool ideas too.
I think Barclays/AY will be great for the area but honestly, I’ve got nothin’ to go on but high hopes as a Brooklyn born and raised Net fan who didn’t major in urban planning. While I hope I’m right and the opponents are wrong, I respect their POV.
And who knows, maybe you’re right, some folks may very well have a change of heart and embrace it.
Yeah this is about more than the neighborhood
Its about Brooklyn as a whole along with the tri-state area and the whole world, your opinion doesn’t weigh more than somebody else’s because your in the minority and it seems your fighting for some cause, pretty sure you would not have wanted them to build the Garden in the beginning as well if you lived around there at that time, since you brought up MSG before.
"We're not there yet, but we're going somewhere," Johnson said. "And we're going to Brooklyn. We're not going to contract. We're going to Brooklyn."
Also you can only say neighborhood when I'll say 60% of people are
Accounted for not sure it can apply to this project.
"We're not there yet, but we're going somewhere," Johnson said. "And we're going to Brooklyn. We're not going to contract. We're going to Brooklyn."
And how long has the corner of Atlantic and Flatbush been your neighborhood???
Let’s get real and cut the crap. All change brings critics. Eniesto {or is it Justin from Ohio?}, Brooklynites haven’t been thrilled with what your core group has brought into the neighborhood either ( i.e. gentrification). You might want to consider that.
You might also want to improve upon your sport facility linguistics when referring to an indoor arena as a stadium. Your writers group get togethers should have covered that. Or is the error patented hipsterism disdain for something beneath your mangled elitism.
by Marine Park Crew on May 30, 2011 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions
what a great model....
i came through architecture school as physical models were being replaced (rapidly) by renderings and 3D modelling. its nice to see someone took the time to build the scale model.
while its important to reserve judgement until the building is finally built, a well established firm (SHoP architects) who has operated around NYC for years, designed the building’s skin. they’re very familiar with the urban environment, and crafting building facades with reflect the nature of the building’s context
they had this model set up in a public place a while ago
for ppl to come and check out …
ya i like to see mini models… makes it more real for me beside all this 3D phenomena now
by blazin pp face on May 29, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Brussard said it's going to be top 3 arenas in US
D Will called it baller paradise i just want to go there because i live in brooklyn and dont like to go to city just because it’s the place to catch a ticket
by Aidar Berlinbayev on May 29, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
blazin pp face
your screen name made me laugh for some odd reason while looking at that rendering for the Barclays
by MrDollarBills on May 30, 2011 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Documentary showings
Here are locations where you can see the documentary, The Battle for Brooklyn, and some of these are for free, so you don’t have to worry about any money going to DDDB.
June 3: Brooklyn Heights Cinema, 70 Henry Street, Brooklyn 8 PM
June 9: Fort Greene Park, Brooklyn 9 PM (weather permitting)*
June 11: Indiescreen, 285 Kent Avenue, Brooklyn 8 PM
June 17th-25th: Cinema Village, 22 E12th Street, Manhattan**
June 17th-25th: Indescreen 285 Kent Avenue, Brooklyn**
- = Free showing
- = See website of venue for showtime
Yeah Super 8 sounds better to me
"We're not there yet, but we're going somewhere," Johnson said. "And we're going to Brooklyn. We're not going to contract. We're going to Brooklyn."
Yeah Im seeing that
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on May 29, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
dont you think its time to move on?
Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov admits clerical error, releases a guy's family from underground dungeon fortress that is shaped like a giant snake with an ox's head and perpetually burrows through the Earth's mantle so as to avoid prosecution from the world's governments and evade the single-celled, yet 4,000-foot-long Colossus worms that lie in wait until the day someone recites the Forgotten Verses, at which point they will devour us all.
http://www.sbnation.com/2011/3/29/2066542/the-animated-gifs-of-winter-numbers-15-through-11
Typical
As usual, you guys fail to look at both sides, and just act selective. This film that you are slamming has gotten a lot of good reviews in the last places that it showed. The only people who would hate this film would most likely be those who either have a biased support of the project or work with FCR. The way you are judging it is very similar to how a sexist judges the WNBA without ever watching a game in your life yet trying to claim that they know more about than the fans that do watch them on a regular basis. Of course none of you can ever be taken seriously seeing that you pretty much never attend events on this when I do and I have never seen you at any of them not even once. Just to go to the one at Fort Greene Park since that one is a free showing. If you do go to the one on opening night of the Brooklyn Film Festival, you can get a chance to talk to DG himself and figure out what he is doing rather than spreading rumors about him, because then you will know what is true about what he has been doing lately.
by Tal Barzilai on May 29, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
People still do care
If that wasn’t the case, then such a film wouldn’t be made. Just because none of the members of DDDB are still living there doesn’t mean that they have just stopped. There are some recent updates on the DDDB website as there continues to be with NLG and AYR. Again, I am not here to get anyone to agree with me, I am just here to state my side of this issue, which I am entitled to. I don’t mind if anyone wants to disagree with my view, it’s those that have attacked me that I am against. The reason why I mentioned the WNBA analogy, because for the most part, most of those who said that the WNBA is boring actually never saw a game, and that is no lie according to Matt Wurst, the WNBA’s official blogger. How can you judge something you have never seen? Just give it a chance, and if you don’t like it, then never see it again. Also, a back room decision doesn’t mean that it’s over either. As for that poll, that Crains Poll, which is probably the one that is being reffered to, the questions were found to be vague and in a biased support for the project just like any other one was, plus those that have stated their support actually took it back when they couldn’t state a valid reason. If you don’t believe me, then ask Oder himself, because he has all the information on this. For more debunked myths, you can over to the link at the bottom.
by Tal Barzilai on May 29, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Cut that out already?
Just because I oppose this, doesn’t mean that I am stopping others from liking it. You have to remember that not everybody is going to like everything. For the record, I have never forced anyone to take my view or demand them to stop talking about it just for taking the other side unlike the way you have done this to me. If you don’t want to talk about it anymore, then don’t because nobody, not even me, is forcing you to do so. I am no religious zealout, so I don’t go on the all out defensive as you and other supporters do. By your logic, maybe it’s a bad idea to think about deciding how to get our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan because those in a back room said so. As for DG’s compensation, it was still a small fraction of what Ratner’s CEOs make, and he is still active in fighting the project today. If anything, he should continued for more and have more than what Bill Gates and Donald Trump have combined. Nevertheless, he has never been seen as a sell out except to those who villify and stereotype him like you do.
by Tal Barzilai on May 29, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
the problem with you is
you only look at the negative, not the positive, what about the jobs this creates? both for construction, and running the arena, the new businesses that will open that will receive tons of business creating jobs, also the revitalization of the borough and the attention that it will receive, and the people wiling to develop around it, you fail to see the positive tal
What you talkin' 'bout!?
Once again, you buy into the myths about this project when they have been debunked countless times. You are starting to sound like the anti-Israel crowd when you state something like this, and they are also known to be riding countless myths that have been disproven countless times. I don’t see anything positive about a project like this that has to abuse eminent domain and corporate welfare to be built, but I guess to your kind, the end will justify the means no matter what is involved. Don’t give me that it will create jobs for the area, because the most common lie developers give just to use a divide and conquer method to turn neighborhoods and even those living in a city against each other. Most of the jobs will NOT go to locals and will most likely go to pre-hired workers, relocated employees, and even a program that brings people all the way from China before anyone local gets them. The most locals will ever get is jobs that are either temporary or minium wage, while the rest will just go to the groups that I mentioned. Nobody is against having developement on the rail yards, they just don’t believe that this one will help. I suggest you go over to the UNITY meeting on 6/15, and you can make all the claims there, and they will gladly tell you why Ratner is wrong. That area was never blighted, and even Roger Green, who is a supporter, agrees on that. Perhaps a developer should threaten you out of your home, and then you will understand why there are people against that. Please read that link that I gave, because it debunks everything that you tend to believe, and even gives evidence to why such claims are false. It’s easy to support something like this when it’s either not in your neighborhood or you don’t happen to be the victim. Maybe a walk in their shoes will give a you an understanding of this on why they were opposed to this in the first place.
by Tal Barzilai on May 30, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
once again
the nutty extremism of the critics…wild exaggeration.
“The anti-Israeli crowd”? This is not on the scale of Middle East peace or the atrocities committed by both sides in that 60 year conflict.
Everyone on their side is to be exalted. Everyone on the other side is to be dismissed and compared to Nazis, anti-semites and deemed in the pocket of Bruce Ratner (who barely controls the arena anymore and won’t in another two years).
It’s ridiculous
My favorite article in human history
by blazin pp face on May 29, 2011 10:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
nope
"You can spend minutes, hours, days weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what would’ve, could’ve happened – or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-Tupac Amaru Shakur
by NetsMets4Life on May 30, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
There is a problem with that
Those who support this move tend to have huge egos that they just can’t keep to themselves. They had their say on this, now let others have theirs’. It’s better to hear both sides of the issue rather than just one. For the record, I have nothing against those who support having the Nets moving to Brooklyn, but I am against those who have attacked me and even tried to silence me just for disagreeing.
by Tal Barzilai on May 30, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Excuse me!?
Do you hear me going around telling you what to like or hate here? The answer is no. Also, you don’t see me go around using insulting images that are very degrading if you asked me. It’s not like I am going around pointing a gun at your head or a knife at your throat and then saying, “Agree with me or I will murder you!” If anyone is having a big ego here, it’s you, not me, especially because you have tried to silence me on this. Sometimes, I feel like Guliver and you are all the little people trying to keep me down when in reality, I will just break off the ropes and come back up.
by Tal Barzilai on May 31, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
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