The Statistics of Options at Shooting Guard
by Maxyboy on Mar 28, 2011 10:03 PM EDT
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In a follow up to my last post on the options at the 3 spot for the Nets, I think that most here can agree that the Shooting Guard is another position in need of an upgrade.
So I went through a list of the shooting guards available and I came up with this list of the names that caught my eye that may be able to help the Nets.
All statistics used will be taken from the 2010-2011 season. Most of the blurbs about stats are from Basketball-Reference. The statistics are also accurate as of March 28, 2011.
Leandro Barbosa - Player Option
Rodney Stuckey - RFA
Jason Richardson - UFA
Jamal Crawford - UFA
Arron Afflalo - RFA
Shannon Brown - Player Option
J.R. Smith - UFA
Nick Young - RFA
Marcus Thornton - RFA
Let's see if they will. You can skip to my conclusions at the end if you do not feel like wading through statistics.
1. Age - Age is a factor that definitely needs to be considered when signing a free agent to a contract of significant length.
- Marcus Thornton - 23 Years 296 Days - 5
- Rodney Stuckey - 24 Years 341 Days - 4
- Shannon Brown - 25 Years 119 Days - 3
- Arron Afflalo - 25 Years 164 Days - 3
- J.R. Smith - 25 Years 200 Days - 3
- Nick Young - 25 Years 300 Days - 3
- Leandro Barbosa - 28 Years 120 Days - 2
- Jason Richardson - 30 Years 67 Days - 1
- Jamal Crawford - 31 Years 8 Days - 1
2. 2010-2011 Salary - This will not reflect the salary the player receives so I will not factor it into my analysis, but it is interesting to note.
- Marcus Thornton - 0.8 Million
- Arron Afflalo - 2.0 Million
- Shannon Brown - 2.1 Million
- Nick Young - 2.6 Million
- Rodney Stuckey - 2.8 Million
- J.R. Smith - 6.0 Million
- Leandro Barbosa - 7.1 Million
- Jamal Crawford - 10.1 Million
- Jason Richardson - 14.4 Million
3. Points Per Game - Used in "A" Rankings
- Nick Young - 17.4 PTS - 5
- Jason Richardson - 15.9 PTS - 4
- Rodney Stuckey - 14.8 PTS - 3
- Jamal Crawford - 14.1 PTS - 3
- Leandro Barbosa - 13.1 PTS - 2
- Arron Afflalo - 12.6 PTS - 2
- J.R. Smith - 12.1 PTS - 2
- Marcus Thornton - 11.6 PTS - 2
- Shannon Brown - 9.0 PTS - 1
4. Points Per 36 Minutes - Used in "B" Rankings
- Nick Young - 19.7 PTS - 5
- Leandro Barbosa - 19.6 PTS - 5
- Marcus Thornton - 19.2 PTS - 5
- J.R. Smith - 17.7 PTS - 4
- Rodney Stuckey - 17.4 PTS - 4
- Jason Richardson - 17.0 PTS - 4
- TIE Shannon Brown & Jamal Crawford - 16.7 PTS - 3
- (9) Arron Afflalo - 13.3 PTS - 1
5. Rebounds Per Game - Used in "A" Rankings
- Jason Richardson - 4.3 REB - 5
- J.R. Smith - 4.1 REB - 5
- Arron Afflalo - 3.6 REB - 4
- Marcus Thornton - 3.2 REB - 4
- Rodney Stuckey - 3.0 REB - 4
- Nick Young - 2.7 REB - 3
- Shannon Brown - 2.0 REB - 1
- TIE Leandro Barbosa & Jamal Crawford - 1.7 REB -1
6. Rebounds Per 36 Minutes - Used in "B" Rankings
- J.R. Smith - 6.0 REB - 5
- Marcus Thornton - 5.3 REB - 5
- Jason Richardson - 4.6 REB - 4
- Arron Afflalo - 3.8 REB - 3
- Shannon Brown - 3.7 REB - 3
- Rodney Stuckey - 3.6 REB - 3
- Nick Young - 3.1 REB - 2
- Leandro Barbosa - 2.5 REB - 1
- Jamal Crawford - 2.0 REB - 1
7. TRB% - Total Rebound Percentage the formula is 100 * (TRB * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm TRB + Opp TRB)). Total rebound percentage is an estimate of the percentage of available rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor.
- J.R. Smith - 9.6% - 5
- Marcus Thornton - 8.8% - 4
- Jason Richardson - 7.4% - 3
- Arron Afflalo - 6.2% - 3
- Rodney Stuckey - 6.0% - 3
- Shannon Brown - 5.9% - 3
- Nick Young - 4.9% - 2
- Leandro Barbosa - 4.1% - 2
- Jamal Crawford - 3.3% - 1
8. Player Efficiency Rating - http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html
- Rodney Stuckey - 17.7 - 5
- Marcus Thornton - 17.0 - 5
- J.R. Smith - 16.5 - 4
- Jason Richardson - 15.3 - 3
- Leandro Barbosa - 14.9 - 3
- Shannon Brown - 14.5 - 3
- Nick Young - 14.4 - 3
- Jamal Crawford - 14.0 - 2
- Arron Afflalo - 13.5 - 1
9. Defensive Rating - The formula is: Defensive Rating = (Opponent's Points Allowed/ Opponent's Possessions) x 100. The result is the expected amount of points that an individual player will allow on defense over 100 possessions.
- TIE J.R. Smith, Jason Richardson & Shannon Brown - 106 - 5
- (4) Marcus Thornton - 107 - 5
- (5) Jamal Crawford - 110 - 3
- (6) Arron Afflalo - 111 - 3
- (7) Rodney Stuckey - 113 - 1
- (8) TIE Leandro Barbosa & Nick Young - 114 - 1
10. Win Shares - http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
- Jason Richardson - 6.4 - 5
- Arron Afflalo - 5.9 - 5
- J.R. Smith - 4.3 - 4
- Rodney Stuckey - 3.4 - 3
- TIE Shannon Brown, Marcus Thornton & Jamal Crawford - 3.1 - 3
- (8) Nick Young - 2.6 - 2
- (9) Leandro Barbosa - 1.4 - 1
11. Win Shares/48
- Jason Richardson - 0.127 - 5
- Arron Afflalo - 0.124 - 5
- J.R. Smith - 0.120 - 5
- Marcus Thornton - 0.108 - 4
- Shannon Brown - 0.105 - 4
- Rodney Stuckey - 0.100 - 3
- Jamal Crawford - 0.071 - 2
- Nick Young - 0.060 - 1
- Leandro Barbosa - 0.050 - 1
12. Field Goal Percentage
- Arron Afflalo - 49.6% - 5
- Jason Richardson - 44.8% - 3
- Leandro Barbosa - 44.4% - 3
- Nick Young - 44.1% - 3
- Marcus Thornton - 43.8% - 2
- J.R. Smith - 43.4% - 2
- Shannon Brown - 43.3% - 2
- Rodney Stuckey - 43.0% - 2
- Jamal Crawford - 41.5% - 1
For this next section of stats involving shooting percentages from certain spots on the floor, the numbers in parentheses on the right of the names of the players represent the amount of shot attempts per game that each player takes from the specified distance on the offensive end.
13. Field Goal Percentage For Shots "At Rim" -
- Shannon Brown (1.9) - 66.7% - 5
- Jason Richardson (3.1) - 66.5% - 5
- Arron Afflalo (2.3) - 66.4% - 5
- Leandro Barbosa (4.4) - 62.5% - 4
- TIE Nick Young (1.8) & Marcus Thornton (2.5) - 62.2% - 4
- (7) J.R. Smith (2.1) - 58.9% - 3
- (8) Jamal Crawford (1.9) - 56.9% - 2
- (9) Rodney Stuckey (4.8) - 55.3% - 1
14. Field Goal Percentage For Shots 3-9 Feet Away
- Arron Afflalo (0.9) - 52.4% - 5
- Shannon Brown (0.6) - 48.8% - 4
- Jamal Crawford (1.1) - 37.1% - 3
- Jason Richardson (1.3) - 37.0% - 3
- Nick Young (0.8) - 36.5% - 3
- Rodney Stuckey (1.6) - 34.7% - 2
- Marcus Thornton (1.3) - 32.5% - 2
- Leandro Barbosa (0.8) - 29.5% - 1
- J.R. Smith (1.0) - 25.8% -1
15. Field Goal Percentage For Shots 10-15 Feet Away
- Arron Afflalo (0.7) - 52.3% - 5
- Jamal Crawford (0.8) - 44.2% - 4
- Marcus Thornton (0.8) - 41.7% - 4
- Leandro Barbosa (0.3) - 41.2% - 4
- Nick Young (2.1) - 39.1% - 3
- Rodney Stuckey (1.0) - 35.6% - 3
- Shannon Brown (0.4) - 32.1% - 3
- Jason Richardson (0.5) - 30.8% - 2
- J.R. Smith (0.3) - 29.2% - 2
16. Field Goal Percentage For Shots 16-23 Feet Away
- J.R. Smith (2.4) - 47.0% - 5
- Nick Young (5.7) - 46.0% - 5
- Jamal Crawford (3.2) - 45.0% - 5
- Arron Afflalo (1.6) - 39.0% - 4
- Jason Richardson (2.4) - 37.0% - 3
- Rodney Stuckey (2.8) - 36.0% - 3
- Marcus Thornton (2.4) - 35.9% - 3
- Shannon Brown (2.3) - 34.0% - 2
- Leandro Barbosa (1.3) - 31.0% -1
17. 3-Point Field Goal Percentage
- Arron Afflalo (3.6) - 42.6% - 5
- Marcus Thornton (2.9) - 40.3% - 4
- Jason Richardson (6.0) - 40.0% - 4
- J.R. Smith (3.9) - 38.8% - 3
- Nick Young (4.3) - 38.7% - 3
- Shannon Brown (2.7) - 35.0% - 2
- TIE Leandro Barbosa (3.8) & Jamal Crawford (4.6) - 33.8% - 2
- (9) Rodney Stuckey (1.2) - 28.8% - 1
18. Percentage of Field Goals Assisted -
The formula is (Assisted Field Goals Made / FG) x 100. It helps to see which players create for themselves as opposed to those players who score most of their points off of assists from others. The league average for this season is 59.9%. For reference, Deron Williams had a 41.7% rating with Utah and a 27.8% rating with the Nets whereas Kris Humphries has a 72.5% rating because he scores mostly off of alley-oops and pick and pops.
- Rodney Stuckey - 40.1% - 5
- Jamal Crawford - 44.3% - 4
- Marcus Thornton - 50.5% - 3
- Leandro Barbosa - 50.0% - 3
- J.R. Smith - 52.2% - 3
- Nick Young - 61.5% - 2.5
- Shannon Brown - 66.9% - 2
- Jason Richardson - 69.9% - 2
- Arron Afflalo - 71.3% - 1
- Jason Richardson - 72.9% - 1
19. Effective Field Goal Percentage -
Effective Field Goal Percentage - The formula is (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA. This statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal. For example, suppose Player A goes 4 for 10 with 2 threes, while Player B goes 5 for 10 with 0 threes. Each player would have 10 points from field goals, and thus would have the same effective field goal percentage (50%).
- Arron Afflalo - 58.1% - 5
- Jason Richardson - 53.9% - 4
- J.R. Smith - 51.2% - 3
- Leandro Barbosa - 50.2% - 3
- TIE Marcus Thornton & Nick Young - 49.7% - 3
- (7) Shannon Brown - 49.2% - 3
- (8) Jamal Crawford - 48.3% - 2
- (9) Rodney Stuckey - 44.6% - 1
20. True Shooting Percentage -
True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * (FGA + 0.44 * FTA)). True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.
- Arron Afflalo - 62.0% - 5
- Jason Richardson - 56.0% - 4
- J.R. Smith - 54.9% - 4
- Jamal Crawford - 54.0% - 3
- Nick Young - 53.8% - 3
- Leandro Barbosa - 53.7% - 3
- TIE Marcus Thornton & Rodney Stuckey - 53.4% - 2
- (9) Shannon Brown - 52.8% - 1
21. Usage Percentage -
Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of plays that a player used while he was on the floor, where a play is defined to be a combination of field goal attempts, free throw attempts and turnovers. If a team distributed its plays equally among all of its players, then each individual would have a usage percentage of 20 percent.
- Arron Afflalo - 14.7% - 5
- Jason Richardson - 20.9% - 4
- J.R. Smith - 22.2% - 4
- Shannon Brown - 22.3% - 4
- Jamal Crawford - 23.3% - 3
- Rodney Stuckey - 24.4% - 2
- Nick Young - 24.5% - 2
- Marcus Thornton - 25.1% - 1
- Leandro Barbosa - 25.2% - 1
22. Blocks Per Game - Used in "A" Rankings
- Arron Afflalo - 0.5 BLK - 5
- TIE Shannon Brown, Nick Young, Jason Richardson, J.R. Smith, Jamal Crawford - 0.2 BLK - 3
- (7) Marcus Thornton, Rodney Stuckey & Leandro Barbosa - 0.1 BLK - 1
23. Blocks Per 36 Minutes - Used in "B" Rankings
- Arron Afflalo - 0.5 BLK - 5
- Shannon Brown - 0.4 BLK - 4
- TIE Nick Young & J.R. Smith - 0.3 BLK - 3
- TIE Jason Richardson, Jamal Crawford, Rodney Stuckey, Marcus Thornton & Leandro Barbosa - 0.2 BLK - 1
24. Steals Per Game - Used in "A" Rankings
- J.R. Smith - 1.2 STL - 5
- TIE Jason Richardson & Rodney Stuckey - 1.1 STL - 5
- (4) TIE Shannon Brown & Leandro Barbosa - 0.9 STL - 3
- (6) TIE Marcus Thornton & Jamal Crawford - 0.8 STL - 3
- (8) Nick Young - 0.7 STL - 1
- Arron Afflalo - 0.5 STL - 1
25. Steals Per 36 Minutes - Used in "B" Rankings
- J.R. Smith - 1.7 STL - 5
- Shannon Brown - 1.6 STL - 5
- TIE Rodney Stuckey, Marcus Thornton & Leandro Barbosa - 1.3 STL - 3
- (6) Jason Richardson - 1.1 STL - 2
- (7) Jamal Crawford - 1.0 STL - 2
- (8) Nick Young - 0.7 STL - 1
- (9) Arron Afflalo - 0.5 STL - 1
26. Assist Percentage - Assist Percentage; the formula is 100 * AST / (((MP / (Tm MP / 5)) * Tm FG) - FG). Assist percentage is an estimate of the percentage of teammate field goals a player assisted while he was on on the floor.
- Rodney Stuckey - 26.2% - 5
- Jamal Crawford - 17.4% - 4
- Leandro Barbosa - 14.3% - 3
- J.R. Smith - 14.2% - 3
- Marcus Thornton - 13.0% - 3
- Arron Afflalo - 10.7% - 2
- Shannon Brown - 9.9% - 2
- Jason Richardson - 8.8% - 2
- Nick Young - 6.6% - 1
THIS IS THE END OF THE POST FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT WANT TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE STATISTICS:
In the comments of my post on the options at Small Forward, it was pointed out to me that my previous rankings were flawed. To assign a point value based on the ranking in each list is silly because, in some situations, the difference is negligible. For example, Barbosa has a 14.3% AST% while J.R. has a 14.2% AST%. There is hardly a difference.
So, this time, I am going to assign points to each starting at the bottom of each list. If a player is at the bottom of the list, he will receive one point for that slot. If the next player up is significantly higher statistically, he will receive a 2, if not he will receive a 1 as well. You can see the points value in each list. Each ranking will vary from 1-5 points.
"A" Rankings - This Ranking Uses Basic Points, Steals, Blocks and Rebounds
- Jason Richardson - 74.5
- TIE J.R. Smith & Arron Afflalo - 74 Points
- (4) Marcus Thornton - 66 Points
- (5) TIE Rodney Stuckey & Shannon Brown - 59 Points
- (7) Nick Young - 56.5 Points
- (8) Jamal Crawford - 55 Points
- (9) Leandro Barbosa - 45 Points
"B" Rankings - This Ranking Uses Points, Steals, Blocks and Rebounds Per 36 Minutes
- J.R. Smith - 76 Points
- Arron Afflalo - 72 Points
- Marcus Thornton - 70 Points
- Jason Richardson - 68.5 Points
- Shannon Brown - 66 Points
- Rodney Stuckey - 57 Points
- Nick Young - 55.5 Points
- Jamal Crawford - 52 Points
- Leandro Barbosa - 48 Points
Conclusions:
- The Rankings are the least consequential part of this post. Afflalo gained 20 something points just from being a good shooter. They are interesting to look at, but they cannot be accurately used on their own.
- J.R. Smith is a good option at the 2-guard. He can do a little bit of everything. I do not however think that he stands out from the other candidates so much as to negate the problems he would have in the Newark area. That is just my opinion though.
- Marcus Thornton is a beast. He is near the top of the rankings despite the fact that his stats were lowered tremendously by his time in New Orleans. I would love to have him on the Nets. He can create his own shot and score at will.
- Arron Afflalo has been overrated by many on here. He is merely a spot up shooter. He is Anthony Morrow with better defense. He is still a good player, but not for a sizable contract.
- Jason Richardson's stats are slightly inflated because of playing time and he can still score, but considering his age, there are better options for the Nets.
- Shannon Brown is a good role player and would fill the highlight reel, but a starting 2-guard he is not.
- Rodney Stuckey is a mediocre option. He can create his own shot and get others involved, but he is a poor shooter, a mediocre scorer, and his playmaking abilities are not a necessity.
- Please, please let someone else overpay Jamal Crawford.
- Leandro Barbosa was not worth the time I spent looking up his stats in the slightest.
After all of this, I would not be opposed to Richardson or Smith at the 2-guard, but I believe that Thornton is by far the best option.
What do you guys think?
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Comments
Better add Carter
Or some people on this blog will go crazy. Just saying.
Nice list though and I like the effort you put into this. Thanks
Carter
is easily a better option than anyone on that list except for Thornton. Most players on that list are not hard to find at all, players of that level are available all the time, no need to overspend and commit long term money on role players like those.
I'm not really arguing for or against him
Just stating a point. A couple people on this blog are really supporting him on this team (wasn’t just referring to one person). And he is probably an option for King, so he should be listed, whether he should be on the team or not.
You just made J.R Smith look very good, but in response to the thread Im not completely sold on Throrton just yet. He is a bit undersized, though it hard to argue that its a problem for him. Id be more than happy for us to get him, and a starting SF, and get some more talent at PF.
J.R. has loads of talent. I hope he doesn't squander it.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
He can score
But as fast as he can shoot a team into a game, he can also cause them to lose with his shot selection.
by Shameer1016 on Mar 29, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
My top 3 of the options here would be
Thornton
Jrich
Jr Simth
Official Member of the "Travis OutLOL Society". 5 years, 35 Million Dollars worth of lulz.
Nets need a player like Crawford
Who can create his own shot. I’m not saying he’s the answer, but he’s certainly a step in the right direction.
by ZR on Mar 29, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
He can create a shot, but he has not been good at making those shots.
A 41.5% FG% is nothing to brag about whatsoever.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
My top 3
Shannon Brown
Jamal Crawford
Aaron Afflalo
No order…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCFFfkSg_b4
The Token Black-Jew
ok ive gotta ask
why do you always call him Earl Smith? I know thats his real name but you are probably the only person besides his mother who calls him that
His given name is Earl Smith III, but he got “J.R.” because people would call him “junior,” even though, yeah, he’s actually a third-generation Earl.
Regardless, the Denver sharpshooter is now Earl Smith III — which should lead to some cutesy puns about “III” and “3-pointers.”
“I just felt like changing it,” Smith said Tuesday morning at the Nuggets shootaround, in preparation for [the Bulls] game […] “It’s been a long time, and J.R. has no significance to my name. My name is Earl, so I figured — why not?”
The Token Black-Jew
For the record, Thornton's numbers in Sactown are absolutely insane.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
22.0 PTS 2.0 STL 4.3 REB 47.1 FG% 43.2 3PT% 20.4 PER!!!!
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
he's a monster
idk why we don’t get the players we can get cheap
OFFICIAL MEMBER OF THE "_your movement here__" MOVEMENT
I'm willing to do that. He can score like no other. (At least that the Nets can get lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om4JY__bV2o
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
score like no other?
can the guy actually develop a real track record of being that guy before we crown him as such?
i feel like the same thing that’s leading fans to go nuts over these role players also probably had people thinking travis outlaw was a great signing last summer. slow down.
by shane gayle on Mar 28, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok. Lol. I got carried away, but he can be a very good scorer.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
He is a very good scorer
He’s the guy I wanted all along. His defense and size are not good for a SG but we need his points. He’s proven for two seasons on two different teams that he can score at the NBA-level. With him, I think we can focus on a more defensive-oriented SF, which is easier to acquire.
Also, good analysis of Affalo … my feelings exactly. He is Anthony Morrow with defense.
"The trade that usually happens is the one you never hear about" - Net Income
my top three
Thorthon
Affalo
Jr smith
Oj mayo would be my first option if he was on here
by Pure baller15 on Mar 28, 2011 10:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I'll take mayo on a trade for Farmar. Memphis can us a PG. That could be a straight up swap.
And the salaries are close. Mayo is coming off bench also. Can rebound some, pass, and 1 steal per. Still better all around game than Morrow – our sharp shooter off the bench.
With that trade, we have all of our cap money still and addressed the SG position.
Mayo and morrow manning the SG – not too shabby.
J.R. Smith FTW
Knicks 2, Nets 0. There's not much Prokhorov can do about it now. Maybe put up another billboard ~Mitch Lawrence
Yeah, about that... Don't ever doubt The Prokhorov.
Stuckey most likely stays, same with Leandro, Brown, Thornton (theres no way they let him go after how he’s playing, plus they have cap), and Afflalo. Crawford goes to a contender. J-Rich will be either in Chicago or Orlando. That leaves Mr. J.R. Smith, who I’d be down with as the starting 2 guard.
by JerseysFinest. on Mar 28, 2011 10:47 PM EDT reply actions
I think he is done in Denver, and he is not going to come over priced. He would leave us room to pursue a trade for a SF or PF who will have a great impact, but may have a big contract.
yeah they won’t have money left to resign him after resigning Nene, Chandler, and Afflalo. Nets and Bulls will most likely be after him, but I can’t see the Bulls being able to offer him a lot, and I definitely feel the incentive is there for him to return to his roots and become part of something special in BK/NJ
by JerseysFinest. on Mar 28, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Forget about JR Smith
Dude is a cancerous knucklehead thug with a super low BBIQ.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
how is he cancerous? Is he not helping his team right now? Sure, he’s had some rough patches in the past, have we all not? Evidently, none of us were factors in the death of a friend, but we all make mistakes. I truly respect J.R., for changing himself from an incompetent malcontent to a good young man. And kid would help this team no question, beggars can’t be choosers. He is arguably better than any wing presently on this team. And he’s only 24. He is a terrific athlete and is a good shooter, and no one can deny he would be great on this team. That Newark-Blood thing is BS also. Sorry for talking a lot, but I feel what he has done formerly shouldn’t hinder the Nets decision in getting him, or the fans.
by JerseysFinest. on Mar 29, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you know the Blood thing is BS?
Even if he isn’t that bad off the court anyway, his BBIQ is disgusting, his shot selection is atrocious and his maturity level is somewhere in between middle school and high school drop out working the register at the Shell Station.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya see, that's the problem when people drop out of RIF. It was written that JR Smith was a "blood donor" and evryone went crazy with the gang connection.
C’MON!!!!!!!!
Bwahahahah Bwahahahaha Bwahahahaha
Morrow is strictly a spot up shooter...
He should be a 6xth man on most rosters.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Player A: 24.3 PTS 2.3 STL 3.6 REB 45.2 FG% 35.5 3PT% 18.7 PER
Player B: 25.1 PTS 0.9 STL 7.2 REB 45.1 FG% 36.0 3PT% 21.0 PER
Marcus Thornton (SAC): 22.0 PTS 2.0 STL 4.3 REB 47.1 FG% 43.2 3PT% 20.4 PER
See who they are at these links:
Player A: http://tinyurl.com/4t7pobo
Player B: http://tinyurl.com/4vqez2t
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
You're comparing two #1 options on season totals to a 17 game stretch of chucking through a hot streak on probably the 2nd worst team in the league where he still only sees the 3rd most attention of opposing defenses...
And no one has even game planned for him yet, once they get tape on him he would be relegated to a spot up shooter, which is what he mainly is anyway.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok. I am aware it is a small sample size.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
I'm just saying, many a player has and in the future will, look like an All Star under the same circumstances, yet winds up a career bench player for good reason.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. I agree. It's just that no free agent wing has as much potential as Thornton in my opinion.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
I've been saying Thornton for a while now. Good work there, maxy!
Thornton would be my first choice. Potetial is there and is showing what he can do with substantial playing time. might be undersized by an inch or two, but doesn’t affect his dunking and rebounding. Also, making under a million – 4yrs/20mil or 4/24 would be probably look good to him. And then, there’s playing with the best point guard in the league.
Second schoice would be J-Rich. I know he is older, but he may be the veteran that keepd Deron happy. He’s got game and he’s proven. Obviously, he’s gotta know he’s not going to make anywhere near what he is making now.
JR Smith, if it weren’t for the coming home thing………
And I’ll stop at Crawford. Simply put, he has shown he is better off the bench.
We get a SG and Morow can be our Crawford, in terms of instant offense, knock down 2-3 three’s in under 10 minutes.
4yrs/20 mil is not going to nab him from Sactown
The Maloofs will undoubtedly match that. You might have to go to the 6-7 mill per season range to make them think twice.
"The trade that usually happens is the one you never hear about" - Net Income
Coaches aren't social workers
You’re better off avoiding knuckleheads altogether. Players only respect other players, not coaches unless they’re phil jackson or popovich. If anyone should be responsible for reigning in jr, it would be deron
by muwu on Mar 28, 2011 11:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But you have to admit though
He would probably be the biggest bang for the buck and the easiest to sign because of his baggage. Avery definitely would have a problem with him.
"The trade that usually happens is the one you never hear about" - Net Income
He'd be the biggest bang for your buck once a week
He won’t seem that way on the nights where he causes you to lose because of poor shot selection and decision making
The question with Thornton is
Will Sacramento not match any offers for him?
That’s the problem with this offseason, all the good young FAs are restricted, while the UFAs are all old and past their prime
So Afflalo is just a spot up shooter, but Thornton is a complete player?
Hmm…
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:10 PM EDT reply actions
Afflalo was my number one choice before I did this.
The % of FG assisted really shocked me.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
by Maxyboy on Mar 28, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
People are gushing over Thornton's volume scoring during a small sample size hot streak in which he's allowed to fire away like an Uzi on an incredibly shallow team...
He’s a nice player and he can fill it up when he’s hot, but he’s inconsistent and isn’t a very complete player and worst of all he’s 6’2.75 tall with T-rex arms.
He’s a 6xth man in the Jason Terry mold on a good team or a starter in a very tall and long, defensive lineup.
I’m not totally against him, but let’s keep it perspective.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The Nets need scoring badly. Thornton can provide that. I don't see what the problem is.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Then we should trade for Jason Terry and preserve 2012 cap.
Thornton is solid, but a team with eventual championship aspirations shouldn’t be throwing a boatload of long term money at a guy that likely won’t be a starter, especially when we have to be extremely savvy with our available cap space until Dwight is here or an impossibility.
Mayo is easily a better option and is very available.
Thornton is just too short, he’s a poor man’s Ben Gordon.
It’s hard to mask a player like him in the playoffs.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with vince
Thornton needs to prove on a larger sample. He has free reigns to shoot, so his numbers will be high. It’s like Jimmer Fredette. Great scorer in college, but he will not be chucking up 75 shots per game in the NBA. If I’m going to pay Thornton 6mil, I rather offer up 8mil to Afflalo.
Here’s my thinking, Nets do need scorers. But they don’t need to overspend on both SF and SG. All the good young talent are RFA’s. So, get a vet at one and try to pry a RFA at the other. In this case, I would pick Chandler who can pay 2 or 3. Morrow can still be serviceable, and Nets can wait to get CJ miles in 2012 IMO (since Utah most likely will pick up his TO). Nets have between 17-19mil (I say 19 because that is what King says, and well, I would believe he knows better than any of us). I believe they can free up more cap with Farmar and or Petro.
It may not be the popular of opinions, but I believe Nets are one scorer away from being a 5th or 6th seed. Chandler may not be the clear cut guy that everyone agrees on, but, he is an upgrade to DJames and Outlaw and Morrow. I believe, Chandler can be the Nets Luol Deng. Say the Nets get JRich at MLE and Chandler. Resign Hump, and use picks for PF and C back ups.
DWill/Gaines/Uzoh
JRich/Morrow
Chandler/DJames/Outlaw
Hump/Pick/Outlaw
Lopez/Pick
Now, JRich probably can’t be had, so then i’d go cheap, Anthony Parker and have Morrow start.
by domininaldo1981 on Mar 29, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Thornton vs. Mayo
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog//id/3450/oj-mayo
/id/4017/marcus-thornton" target="_blank">http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4017/marcus-thornton
Um, they are both 6-4 … so I don’t get this “Thornton is just too short” business.
If we look at their per 48 minute numbers, both are comparable with Mayo being the better defender and Thornton being a better rebounder. Thornton is definitely the more explosive scorer of the two but Mayo would be easier to acquire. I agree with a previous post that mentioned trading Jordan Farmar for Mayo would be a viable trade.
"The trade that usually happens is the one you never hear about" - Net Income
Why, thank you. I do like both, but we can keep our salary cap virtually in tact making a trade with Farmar for Mayo.
And both teams fill a need, while being in different conferences. Win-Win!
To be technical about it, Thornton is a half inch shorter, has an inch shorter wingspan and a much smaller vertical.
Plus agree with bkfire if that type of deal was available.
On top of that, although Thornton is the better scorer, Mayo is a much better ball handler and defender and IMO is the smarter player and it’s not like Mayo is some type of true stud.
Plus in Mayo’s 2 out of 3 good seasons, was able to put up pretty efficient #’s in the flow of the offense while being the 3rd if not 4th option.
That said, I just want to reiterate, I like Thornton, I just don’t see him as a great option for this team unless he was preceded by some other moves to balance the lineup.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, where did I say Thornton is a complete player?
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Come on, you alluded to it with your negative comments on guys like Afflalo, J Rich and Brown.
Plus there’s sort of a semi-innocent, possibly in-deliberate agenda here, when you’re using his Sacto #’s for a bunch of the FG% categories and such.
You can’t say he was held back in NOH, cause if he was that good and had a positive impact, a team starved of scoring production with an ace setup man named Chris Paul, he would have been doing the same there if not better.
He’s getting to chuck away on an extremely bad team and it just so happens he’s a very good shooter who is hot as the sun lately.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The reason for using the Sacto numbers on those FG% is because Hoopdata doesn't use totals for the entire season.
They split it up. I would have used the total numbers if I could have.
I think Richardson is a tad old for this Nets team and Afflalo is a good spot up shooter.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Here.
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Marcus%20Thornton
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
I appreciate your work here and don't mean to sound like I'm asking too much, but then simply combone the numbers and average them if that's the case.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't have the counting stats. I.E. the total number of shots taken and from each position on the floor. They just list the percentages.
I can’t just average 54.5% and 78.2% together because that 54.5% happened in 46 games and the 78.2% was in 15 games.
Without the counting stats I can’t. I wish I could.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Sure it does, just multiple shot attempts by games played...
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 28, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I added WS/48
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
How do I do that?
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
NVM Found It
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Alright, I changed the percentages.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Last request. :)
You should put shot attempts per game from each distance next to the percentages to put the #’s in context.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe in the morning. Lol.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Alright. Done.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
This site is hard to follow.
I’m honestly not sure which post this is a reply to, when I click up it brings me to one of Maxy’s posts.
Thornton pretty much is a spot up shooter though.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm....
IMO we don’t need to get a shooting guard in this offseason.
I’m not sure these players can help a lot
We need a superstar.
Save the money or get a just good starting #3 player.
Thst’s what I think is good plan for this offseason.
And also, we need to watch out about new CBA rules.
That's a hard question
I know it is not easy as I said. I still didn’t get a good idea to upgrade at #2.
But I wanted to talk about this offseason first.
My thought is it is good to figure out a good player to upgrade #2 but we have Anthony Morrow, so we don’t need to change in hurry.
We have to focus on Deron Willimas in this offseason for making him happy to stay Nets.
Also, we have poor #3. This is a bigger problem.
Anyway, we can’t stop looking for another superstar not a just great player.
I would treat these players more as assets
That’s why you go with the younger players and not overpay. Because should that star happen to become available, you package one of these guys in the trade.
"The trade that usually happens is the one you never hear about" - Net Income
I think we should just sign trade chips
Sign a decent starting SF to 3 or 4 years. The rest 1 year deals. We would have to sign expiring contracts to use in trade if needed next season or to just save money for 2012 off season. We also must sign Tyson Chandler
J.R. Smith is the player we need
Knicks 2, Nets 0. There's not much Prokhorov can do about it now. Maybe put up another billboard ~Mitch Lawrence
Yeah, about that... Don't ever doubt The Prokhorov.
Like Muwu said, he is a knucklehead - a risky choice for sure.
But the talent is tantalizing.
Not to mention
If he underperforms, we’re stuck with him. Can’t be use as a trade chip.
"The trade that usually happens is the one you never hear about" - Net Income
He's a "headcase"
as people here like to call it. Jersey native too. I wouldn’t mind having him at all though. He’ll bring lots of energy to this team. The only problems are that he plays no D and like previously stated he is a knucklehead. But those things can be fixed, especially since he’s still young.
Did not realize he is only around 25 yrs. old since he has been around so long.
Kinda of like Hump – both young veterans.
I am not sold on Thornton.
He never took advantage of playing with a great distributor like Paul but gets into a shoot happy position with Sac and now we should sign him.
I am leery of him especially if you want to give him a large contract.
Me either
I never even payed attention to him until I read about him on this site
He lit it up last year when Paul went out too.
He has all the makings of a really good 6xth man, he’s a very good shooter and prolific scorer, but he’s more or less one dimensional, is more of a volume scorer and he’s a liability on defense even when putting the effort in.
His handle is suspect for a guy his size too.
Poor man’s Ben Gordon, but with the potential to be Ben Gordon or maybe Jason Terry.
He’s the type of guy you go after with a chunk of the MLE if your team is mainly well balanced and deep, but in need of a big scoring punch off the bench in a situation where he’s given the green light.
This team has too many holes in the starting lineup and too few assets and too little expendable cap space to go after a guy like him at this time.
If you do your homework and get a touch lucky, you can land a guy like him in the draft in the late first all the way to late 2nd.
I think Austin Freeman or John Jenkins are some of the likely candidates in that role with that type of production this year, with Jenkins having considerable upside at his age.
Even Klay Thompson, who has proper measures for a 2 guard, who I also think could be the potential steal of the draft if he goes in his current mock range.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
How do you know that is his potential? Do you at least agree that he's worth taking a risk on seeing as how the Nets need a scorer and a wing?
Here’s something from before he was drafted from Draft Express:
Thornton is still very much a gunner, he’s just a much more efficient one now. He ranks 8th in the country in field goal attempts per-40 minutes, but is spectacularly proficient, ranking second in the NCAA in Dean Oliver’s offensive rating, at 124 points produced per 100 possessions. His ability to get to the line, score inside and outside the arc, grab offensive rebounds, dish out assists and not turn the ball over makes him one of the most complete offensive players in college basketball.
The way Thornton scores looks fairly likely to be able to translate to the NBA level, at least in some capacity. LSU likes to run Thornton off a huge number of stagger screens, flex cuts and curls, utilizing his terrific ability to catch and shoot. Thornton possesses an extremely quick release, and also likes to add in a slight fade-away to his jump-shot, which helps him create separation from his defender even more effectively. He is terrific at moving off the ball on top of that, and thus is an extremely deadly weapon at the college level.
Far more than just a spot-up shooter, Thornton can also put the ball on the floor and make his way to the basket, as evidenced by the high amount of free throws he attempts each game. Thornton is a good, but not great ball-handler, but his combination of strength, quickness and aggressiveness allows him to get to the rim and finish very effectively at the college level. He’s an incredibly mistake-free player as well, ranking first amongst all shooting guards in turnover ratio, while coughing the ball up on just 9% of his possessions. He’s also one of the best offensive rebounding guards in the NCAA, becoming even more prolific in that area this season.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
He's definitely efficient...
Like I said, I’m not completely against Thornton, but all the contributing factors should be taken into consideration.
What do you think his potential is? And be honest.
Ben Gordon was a VERY good player once upon a time and could certainly get back to a high level in the right situation, but it’s hard to win titles or even go exceptionally deep into the playoffs with guys like him and it’s even harder to move guys like him in trade once they’re signed to bloated contracts.
Thornton is efficient, he’s a very high level shooter and most of his scoring and attached efficiency doesn’t seem to deviate terribly when given more attempts and freedom.
That said, there are a number of reasons it is hard to allot him the minutes and ensuing shot attempts and possessions he would need to put up huge numbers because he is a liability as a man defender because of his diminutive stature and although he is crafty and can self create some, his handle is suspect and he’s not a very good playmaker, he’s more of an advantageous passer, which would be somewhat OK with Deron on the team, but he doesn’t provide the ball handling needed to take pressure off Deron or the ability to aid in running the offense when Deron is on the bench.
All this is while he is still not being game planned against. Wait until he is overused and opposing coaches have game tape on him, when a team attempts to feature him as a key piece in their offense on a playoff level team.
He will either be slowed down, or they’ll focus all their attention on the more important players and let Marcus get his, although they’ll also trap and pressure the hell out of him when he gets the ball in forced iso’s and they’ll have their big men throw him a ton of cheap shots when he’s running around off screens.
I like Thornton, I really do, but in my opinion, I think you’re a little ambitious if you’re imagining him as a star and a long term starter on a really good team.
If we could snag him for a cheap price and simultaneously trade Morrow for a starting small forward or shooting guard, even if not as the centerpiece, then I think it could make a lot of sense.
To finish this all though, what will Sacto refuse to match anyway?
What are you going to have to pay him to get him and if it’s a S&T, will it be cheap asset wise like Morrow was?
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Thornton, I really do, but in my opinion, I think you’re a little ambitious if you’re imagining him as a star and a long term starter on a really good team.
Not a star, but I think he could eventually make an All-Star team.
Not that making an All-Star team is that significant anyway, but I think he can be a starter in this league. The Nets need to upgrade their roster a lot.
Maybe that’s why I’m drawn to Thornton because he COULD present a huge upgrade. Certainly more than any of the other options available players at SG or SF.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
At worst, he's a decent trade chip for a real superstar
"The trade that usually happens is the one you never hear about" - Net Income
Afflalo is the best option
He’s an underrated defender and he’s a decent scorer. Morrow might be a better fit for the 6th man role, but he’s really put up some nice numbers and hit some clutch shots for this team. I wouldn’t throw him on the bench yet, but maybe he can add some more moves to his game.
What is so wrong about being Anthony Morrow with defense?
I’ve seen some people mention that up top and it made it sound like an insult.
Morrow is a great 3-point shooter and can drop bombs on any given night. If he could play defense he’d be arguably a top 15 SG.
If Afflalo is in that mold, and could be had for cheap, it would be a steal.
by ZR on Mar 29, 2011 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
And add to this Afflalo at least has an acceptable NBA level shooting guard handle, he’s athletic as hell and he can pass the ball some.
If there’s any player that would break out on the Nets with Deron while simultaneously being a big time defender, let alone just someone who’s not a straight liability, it’s Afflalo.
Yet, I still don’t even expect that from him either, but a super efficient 16ppg or so guy is within reason.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
The Nets are anything but efficient so Afflalo would fit the bill
Look at what Jason Kidd did to Kenyon Martin’s career.
Nets have a superstar PG now that makes everyone around him better, I can only imagine what placing him in a backcourt with D-Will will do for his career.
Its kind of redundant to have both of them
Same type of flaws – neither are athletic, have good ballhandling ability, nor good finishers. If I’m going to upgrade the position, I want a good scorer … not just another shooter with defense. If we added that other scorer at SF, then yes, Afflalo would make sense and provide balance in the lineup. However, I think there are better scorer options at SG than SF.
"The trade that usually happens is the one you never hear about" - Net Income
Do you watch Denver?
Afflalo is very athletic.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
JR Smith
has the talent to be a STAR in this league. I feel like a homecoming for him could be just what he needs to really explode.
Dwill would have a field day with a guy like JR running the court and skying above the rim.
His BBIQ could be measured with tablespoon and he's an immature reactionist.
His flaws far outweigh his negatives and with this many years in the league, I’m not expecting him to blow up into some type of star.
His shot selection is like late 90’s NYPD.
No thanks.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
He also has the discipline and decision making to be a star in China instead
DWill and Avery would also have a field day with Smith taking ill advised 30 footers in crunch time
This is why you don't even consider JR Smith for one single second
The coach’s decision not to play Smith was precipitated by on-court transgressions.
Smith was charged with negatively changing the momentum in Game 3 on Saturday night with several bad plays.
At the end of the third quarter, he turned over the ball, leading to a Robert Horry 3-pointer. Then a possession later, he got a steal and took an ill-advised shot, after which San Antonio sprinted back the other way for a Michael Finley 3-pointer. Those six quick points turned a 66-64 game into a 72-64 Spurs lead with less than two minutes left.
At the start of the fourth quarter, Smith was called for a flagrant foul that allowed San Antonio to keep the momentum. The Spurs went on to win that game.
Monday, in addition to a third-quarter turnover, the guard attempted a questionable 3-pointer with 25 seconds left and the Nuggets trailing by four. The ball was supposed to go to a teammate. But what pushed Karl over the edge was another 3-pointer late in the game.
“Of course the one with eight seconds to go, from 50 feet,” Karl said. “I just love the dignity of the game being insulted right in front of me.”
Read more: Nuggets coach benching J.R. Smith – The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_5796772#ixzz1HylLVQ00
Read The Denver Post’s Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
That article is from 2007
Nearly 4 years ago. I’m not saying his character is a liability, and probably like Randolph he is better suited where he is at since he’s been relatively behaved, but a more updated article would suffice your argument. Considering that Karl seems to have no problems with Smith.
But,
Problem with JR is that he still makes some of the mistakes on offense that he did a few years ago. He’s gotten better but I don’t think he’s worth the chance.
by domininaldo1981 on Mar 29, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Jr but I dont think they are gonna take a chance on messing up what little chemistry this team has.
Wow people were really over selling afflalo. Nick Young does lil else but score but I would take a chance with him b4 many other names on that list.
I am not sold on Thornton but if we can grab him for a reasonable deal, sure why not. He cant be worse than Sasha.
Props Maxyboy!
These are very in depth posts and i appreciate them.
Trade for SJax
I think we could dump Frenchi in the process. SJax for Frenchi, a TPE and the LA pick. Charlotte would save some money.
I assume they would want at least some young role players in return
Farmar, Morrow, and James. Trading Jackson would signal the start of a trueblue rebuilding in charlotte, and they’ll want more than TPE. Toronto and Cleveland has shown that a TPE is basically worthless
Cleveland got an unprotected lottery pick for taking on B-Diddy’s bloated contract.
’Cats gave away Gerald Wallace (a better and younger player than Jackson) for an expiring contract and a couple of draft picks.
When the Warriors traded SJax to Charlotte, they had to take on Radmanovic’s overpaid contract (it still had 2 years left on it back then).
Yeah, Captain Jack ain't worth jack in a trade.
It doesn’t matter what Charlotte wants, they’ll get something along the lines of an expiring and like it.
And how has Cleveland and Toronto shown a TPE is worthless?
Those TPE’s are still active and haven’t been used for different reasons, let alone Cleveland was this close to trading theirs for Rip Hamilton and a top 5 protected lotto pick…
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Well what were they able to do with the TPEs?
So far, it has only proved to be enable your team to take on bad contracts like Davis or Hamilton as the price of getting a draft pick
Davis wasn't traded for a TPE.
And you make it sound like just a draft pick in the Detroit deal.
It’s a high lotto pick.
And just look back on the plethora of deals that have been done over the last decade involving TPE’s…
To argue against them as not valuable is not opinion, it’s just wrong.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
It's the most important question
Are any of these guys that much of an improvement over Morrow?
by ZR on Mar 29, 2011 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Thornton is a better scorer
Afflalo is a better defender
Official Member of the "Travis OutLOL Society". 5 years, 35 Million Dollars worth of lulz.
by MrDollarBills on Mar 29, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not interested in any other names out there
Official Member of the "Travis OutLOL Society". 5 years, 35 Million Dollars worth of lulz.
by MrDollarBills on Mar 29, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Ammo:
PTS:
13.2
PP36:
14.7
REB:
3.0
RP36:
3.4
TRB%:
5.6%
PER:
12.1
DRTG:
113
Win Shares:
3.2
WS/48:
0.088
FG%:
45.1%
FG% At Rim:
42.6%
FG% From 3-9 Feet:
40.0%
FG% From 10-15 Feet:
51.5%
FG% From 16-23 Feet:
47.0%
3PT%:
42.4%
AST:
70.1
eFG%:
54.2%
TS%:
57.5%
USG%:
17.9%
BLK:
0.1
BP36:
0.1
STL:
0.3
SP36:
0.4
AST%:
6.0%
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Jr smith is Ufa. We wouldnt have to tie our money up going after him.
Then just bring over Ak47 instead of Chandler. Ak47 can focus more on defense and rebounding since you have 2 scorers in the back court.
Thorton could be next seasons Wes Matthews though.
Like i said great post!
You don't want Earl in Newark for a year
you just don’t. Not if you want those foot getting in trouble, or throwing up “B’s” on the court
Official Member of the "Travis OutLOL Society". 5 years, 35 Million Dollars worth of lulz.
by MrDollarBills on Mar 29, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
"that fool"
Official Member of the "Travis OutLOL Society". 5 years, 35 Million Dollars worth of lulz.
by MrDollarBills on Mar 29, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like Nick Young.
He is pretty much JR Smith on the court, but without all the off court stuff. Though he shows limited defensive effort, he has all the quickness, athleticism and length to be a lockdown defender. He can also be a chucker, but MAN can he sore.
25-26 years old, in need of a coach to “shorten his game”. Sounds a little like Kris Humphries. Though Kris Humphries wasn’t dropping 18 points a game at any point in his career.
How much would we have to pay Nick Young to get him from Washington?
He’s not as skilled as Earl, can’t score as well as Smith (not basing that on numbers, but just their skill-sets), not as athletic, hasn’t prove that he can play on a winning team, doesn’t have as much defensive potential and he doesn’t do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK62SBsGZH0&feature=related
The Token Black-Jew
why do people like Thornton so much?
He seems like your average volume shooter to me…
Some might blame Monty’s sporadic use of Marcus which might have made it harder for Marcus to find a groove as a volume shooter. There were even some rumors that Monty and Marcus did not get along. Others point to Marcus’ inability to find his way in Monty’s defensive scheme particularly early in the season. However, the most likely reason for his inability to find his groove was simply the fact that the new system was never suited for Thornton who is best in transition and fast tempo offense.
Despite Thornton showing some ability as a rebounder this year and signs of improvement on defense as the season has matured, the slowdown, milk the shot clock attack employed by Coach Williams simply did not play into Thornton’s strengths on offense. Since the Hornets were frequently outscored last year when playing the faster paced style despite Thornton’s surprisingly strong play, there was little chance that Monty would quicken the pace this year just to suit Thornton. Thornton, at times buried in the rotation this season behind Trevor Ariza, Marco Belinelli and Willie Green, simply had to go.
However, the most likely reason for his inability to find his groove was simply the fact that the new system was never suited for Thornton who is best in transition and fast tempo offense.
Isn’t this the way that D-Will likes to play?
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
That's true
I was thinking thornton would be terrible here bc of avery’s love of the slow pace half court grind it out style, but I forgot that we are just gonna do whatever deron wants. It’s cool to remember we have a superstar once in a while. (I’m not being facetious I really am jumping on the Thornton bandwagon)
On a side note: I know jeff green is statistically underrated and aflalo didn’t look great, but it would be nice to have some athletic defenders manning the wings.
I would like to draft David Lighty for that athletic defender role.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Well it all depends on your lineup.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
are saying it based on him being a 2nd round pick?
Because Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli were 2nd round picks.
I agree with vince, depending on the lineup, Lighty has the maturity and skill set to be a starter.
by domininaldo1981 on Mar 29, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Please
He is just not ready to go right into the starting lineup. Period.
Very few NBA rookies, let alone projected 2nd round picks, start in the NBA straight from college AND succeed.
by ZR on Mar 29, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
that's better argument than just saying he's a 2nd round pick
very few have, but some have succeeded in late 2nd round picks. It all comes down to coach, lineup and role. All I was saying is don’t base it on the “2nd round” factor. Once in a while, a diamond comes from that 2nd round coal mine.
Lighty does have the maturity and skill set to be a starter. Maybe not from the start on certain teams, but on others, he might.
by domininaldo1981 on Mar 29, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Would I love someone like Lighty to come in and produce if the Nets grabbed him?
Without question.
I’m trying to be realistic here.
by ZR on Mar 29, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
How was that a good argument?
He basically said, “David Lighty can’t be a NBA starter as a rookie. Period. Because I said so. I am psychic and have supreme knowledge. Don’t question me.”
Dude is a complete joke.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No that's not what I said...read the words dude
I said very few NBA rookies can do what you’re proposing Lighty can do.
If you legitimately think that Lighty can start in the NBA, after being a 2nd round pick, from Day 1 AND being a rookie, then I guess there’s nothing more I can say besides you need to learn more about how the NBA works.
It takes a very special talent to make a significant impact as a rookie, including those who are taken in the top 5.
I’m sorry, but you’re analytical skills and reading comprehension are a joke.
by ZR on Mar 29, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
So funny, but you seem to project yourself onto others subconsciously...
I never said he could be a starter absolute, I was just pointing out the arrogance and ignorance of your words.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
This is what kills me about some people on this board
You read how you want to read things, not actually what people are stating.
Call me a joke? Get over yourself, using big words from behind a computer screen.
by ZR on Mar 29, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man, this guy can't be serious....
Please
He is just not ready to go right into the starting lineup. Period
Who wrote this?
Holy crap you’re an epic troll.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And lol @ using big words...
Come on dude.
notsureifserious.jpg
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course he's not
If the season ended today AND Lighty was a Net, are you seriously going to tell me that you think he’s ready to play consistent minutes in the NBA?
If your answer is yes, then you are a homer.
That is just tossing rational thought out the window.
by ZR on Mar 30, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
An Ohio State homer?
And again, I never said he would be able to become a starter absolute, I just said it is possible and not some incredible Plastic Man stretch you want to make it, matter of fact, you said it would be impossible, I was just pointing out that is a stupid and incorrect statement and is completely opinion, yet you’re passing it off as some stone cold fact.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 30, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Again...never said it was impossible...you did
It is HIGHLY unlikely. HIGHLY.
For all the Wes Matthews out there, there are 1,000s that have failed.
by ZR on Mar 30, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean I could create a list of every starting 2nd rounder and then compare that with those who don't start, aren't on an NBA roster or quit basketball
The number would be somewhere along the lines of 90% and above that aren’t starters.
But I don’t have the time for that.
by ZR on Mar 30, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
"He is just not ready to go right into the starting lineup. Period"
You meant the same thing.
I’m done with this, you’re ridiculous.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 30, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No I did not...
If I used the word impossible, then that’s what I meant.
This is an area to post an opinion, and not all opinions are facts.
IMO, Lighty is not ready to go into the starting lineup. At all.
Does that statement mean that it’s impossible? Absolutely not.
Just because your brain is not flexible enough to get around that doesn’t mean I’m saying it’s impossible.
by ZR on Mar 30, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Why Wesley Matthews went undrafted, how about Landry Fields, the name Carlos Boozer or DeJuan Blair ring a bell...
Plus, he might wind up a first rounder anyway.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
That's great, but there are also 30 other players drafted in each round who cannot do what you're proposing
Did I say it was impossible? No.
Did I say very few, like Matthews etc.? Yes.
Read before you speak with such arrogance.
by ZR on Mar 29, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol
I wish there were emoticons on here.
Awesome referenece.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Look below please...
Did I say it was impossible? No.
Actually, yes you absotruthfully did, there is no other way to paint it, you did, you did, you did.
This is not reading comprehension.
You LITERALLY said it was impossible.
Think before you start a flame war with human flame thrower…
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 29, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm looking up there and I don't see the word impossible used anywhere besides the line you pointed out, which contradicted your belief
You read what you want to read.
by ZR on Mar 30, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
He is just not ready to go right into the starting lineup. Period.
Your words, not mine…
I think that equates to impossible, unless you’re just trolling on and arguing semantics.
by vincecarter4pres on Mar 30, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll argue the semantics because I never said impossible
I will say this one more time for you.
IF THE SEASON WAS STARTING TODAY AND LIGHTY WAS DRAFTED IN THE 2ND ROUND, I DO NOT FEEL THAT HE IS READY TO START IN THE NBA.
IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE, HOWEVER, THERE IS LESS THAN A 1% CHANCE HE STARTS IN THE NBA STARTING FROM DAY 1.
If you seriously think that a 2nd round pick would be ready to start in the NBA from Day 1, i don’t know what else to tell you besides the fact that you need to follow the NBA more closely.
For example, Manu started only 5 games his rookie season and averaged 20 minutes per game. Those 5 games were due to injury. AND while he even had significant minutes, his PT as a 2nd round rookie makes him one of the major standouts, like top 1% of 2nd rounders, that do that.
by ZR on Mar 30, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Avery will have to change his offensive approach
and he will. He has no choice
Official Member of the "Travis OutLOL Society". 5 years, 35 Million Dollars worth of lulz.
by MrDollarBills on Mar 29, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I want Marco Belinelli...
…I know what you’re all going to say…he can’t defend and only because he is European and not by watching the games…I had my eye on him ever since we took SWat over him because I thought he was the better choice and I think he is a pretty good defender…at the very least he is much better than even the current “defensively-focused” version of Anthony Morrow.
+1
I like him too.
I’m also thinking King can find us a SG in the draft we might like.
If we can move up for Burcs I wouldn’t be excited.
by Jack Handy Jr on Mar 29, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you kidding me!?!
I like Belinelli offensive game, and he still can grow even more offensively, he’s very creative with the ball, but never had a chance to control the ball… but defensively he’s really really bad, he’s one of the worst defenders in the entire league…
DWill all the way to the Finals!! some day, very close...
Afflalo is probably the best fit
He is a very good defender (which the team needs) who would start over Morrow and get Morrow to the bench where he belongs. He has shown good consistency with his jumper which is also needed around Brook and Deron. He also has shown good fire and leadership qualities. Team chemisty would be very good with him imo.
But I just think Denver will match whatever the market commands for him , so he’s not on my radar anymore. I don’t see him going anywhere.
I’m not sure on the rest. There’s potential defensive question marks , starter questions marks , coach-player question marks , matuity question marks , style of play question marks , etc. I’ll have to give it more thought.
For now , I’d go back to Caron Butler at SG to play some SF when Morrow enters the game until I think more about some of these other guys. Deron and the coaches might want to go for a veteran player over a hopeful so I think about that side too.
.
"This isn’t fantasy or rotisserie basketball. Why would Denver want Outlaw? Would you?"
I think the Nets need more players that can create for themselves though.
Afflalo is another player that needs to be set up by others.
Hardly anyone on the Nets can create for themselves.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
That's an issue , sure.
But what guy can defend the position , get along with Avery and mesh with the other players , drive and create , shoot the ball …… all ? There doesn’t seem to be a player that can do all of what it needed for the Nets.
"This isn’t fantasy or rotisserie basketball. Why would Denver want Outlaw? Would you?"
by strange-brew on Mar 29, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Thornton can do all of that well except for the defense part.
In that scouting report posted by SadNetsFan, it says he has been improving on defense too and the metrics certainly represent that.
I don’t think there’s any evidence that he wouldn’t be able to mesh with Avery so the only problem is the average defense.
I’m willing to overlook that for the potential he adds to the Nets.
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
I have no problem with Affalo
he would fill a need and he’d make a great combo along with Morrow at the 2 spot.
But we need at least ONE wing player that can create his own shot.
Official Member of the "Travis OutLOL Society". 5 years, 35 Million Dollars worth of lulz.
by MrDollarBills on Mar 29, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Afflalo the best too but I think Belinelli is much more "gettable"...
Nuggets aint letting Afflalo go after his great season…
belinelli is one of the worst defenders in the league
DWill all the way to the Finals!! some day, very close...
I see Morrow getting better with everygame
he has a little post turnaround jumper. He is driving more and playing better D. He needs the ball more IMO
Agree
The guy is finally getting playing time and is working on all parts of his game. Im not saying he is going to become Kobe but if he learns to drive and finish to go along with that deadly shooting stroke, he can easily get 16ppg.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
I'm all for Thornton
but how is his defense
we know that he can score, but can he defend
We need a defender at each wing spot.
Official Member of the "Travis OutLOL Society". 5 years, 35 Million Dollars worth of lulz.
Lighty at the 2, Chandler or Young at the 3?
"I don’t think we want to be like the Knicks. I think we’d more like to resemble the Lakers." - Mikhail Prokhorov
Brooklyn's Population: 2,567,098 - It would only take about .701% of Brooklyn's Population to fill the Barclays Center.
Maxy
A name i havent seen mentioned as either a 2 or 3 and one that i would liek to see given an opportunity is M Pietrus. He has a player option and has proven that he can both score and defend. where does his stats line up with the others
by bettacalltyrone on Mar 29, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
When he was in the backcourt w/ Collison
That was one of the worst defensive teams in the league. But Thornton is still an upgrade over Morrow defensively
DID ANYONE SEE
Gerald Wallace the other night against the Thunder…holy crap he dropped 40 and was drawing offensive fouls against the likes of Durant. It was an incredible performance; how the hell did we not try to get him!
The cheapest and safest way
is by the draft, hopefully lightly or Buford fall.
Lopez / Petro
Randolph / Draft
James / Outlaw
Draft / Morrow
Williams / Farmar
"I think I’m the best point guard in the league. No reason. I just think I’m the best.’’-Deron Williams.
If they do get someone it better be someone cheap
West and Shannon Brown cheapest and best options.
All of the players listed want lots of cash.
"I think I’m the best point guard in the league. No reason. I just think I’m the best.’’-Deron Williams.
Brown would electrify the crowd in BK.
Nets don’t have a player on their roster who is exciting to watch other than D-Will, Hump and a clutch Lopez.
"I think I’m the best point guard in the league. No reason. I just think I’m the best.’’-Deron Williams.
In case you haven't heard, which obviously you haven't
Randolph is/will not be available. He’s about to resign with Memphis.
by domininaldo1981 on Mar 29, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
can i get a link
"I think I’m the best point guard in the league. No reason. I just think I’m the best.’’-Deron Williams.
Nick Young or Marcus Thorton, but i perfer nick young!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLGFtWeeMGw&hd=1
Never give up on something, you can't go on a day without thinking bout it....
by Kingsley King Lin on Mar 29, 2011 5:54 PM EDT reply actions
Coming from someone who’s watched this dude play literally every game here in DC, you don’t want Young.
by ProfessaPackMan on Mar 29, 2011 6:06 PM EDT reply actions
Yea I've never understood the Nick Young comments here
So many better options that Young out there next season.
by ZR on Mar 29, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
With everything that has been written, including me, if we could shore up the SG position
by trading Farmar for Mayo straight up, I would do that first. It’s still an upgrade and the combo of Mayo and Morrow should provide 20+ points from the SG most nights.
Their contracts are similar, so it basically leaves our cap money in tact, and we can pursue SF postion and some back up bigs.
love it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSm_Tpi7DPw
Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov admits clerical error, releases a guy's family from underground dungeon fortress that is shaped like a giant snake with an ox's head and perpetually burrows through the Earth's mantle so as to avoid prosecution from the world's governments and evade the single-celled, yet 4,000-foot-long Colossus worms that lie in wait until the day someone recites the Forgotten Verses, at which point they will devour us all.
http://www.sbnation.com/2011/3/29/2066542/the-animated-gifs-of-winter-numbers-15-through-11
one more : )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6SaYDkvlGo&feature=related
Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov admits clerical error, releases a guy's family from underground dungeon fortress that is shaped like a giant snake with an ox's head and perpetually burrows through the Earth's mantle so as to avoid prosecution from the world's governments and evade the single-celled, yet 4,000-foot-long Colossus worms that lie in wait until the day someone recites the Forgotten Verses, at which point they will devour us all.
http://www.sbnation.com/2011/3/29/2066542/the-animated-gifs-of-winter-numbers-15-through-11
JR Smith is the most dynamic player on that list
Huge bust potential, but also the best chance to boom as well.
The guy has all-star potential.
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Mar 29, 2011 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+10000
Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov admits clerical error, releases a guy's family from underground dungeon fortress that is shaped like a giant snake with an ox's head and perpetually burrows through the Earth's mantle so as to avoid prosecution from the world's governments and evade the single-celled, yet 4,000-foot-long Colossus worms that lie in wait until the day someone recites the Forgotten Verses, at which point they will devour us all.
http://www.sbnation.com/2011/3/29/2066542/the-animated-gifs-of-winter-numbers-15-through-11
But he can also be a cancer
He’s not the best locker room guy, meaning there’s risk in signing him.
If he busts
He is untradeable because of his baggage. Thus, a very risky move.
"The trade that usually happens is the one you never hear about" - Net Income
I wish everyone would be more careful when using the word "cancer" to describe a player.
People are actually dying of this disease that has no cure in the forseeable future. That’s like saying these guys are going to battle when they are actually getting paid large amounts of money to play a kids game. Our soldiers overseas are the ones that are battling. Please, let’s be more sensitive!
Okay, joke’s over. That was more insensitive than anything I just typed.
He’s not a cancer….he’s a TUMOR!
Ah, the gift that keeps on giving!!! Not bad though, like herpes, he does disappear for a while and then comes back strong.
New nick name: JR “the flare up” Smith
Nice ring to it!
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