REALITY CHECK: Sure, D-Will Could Leave, But It Would Cost Him
by Net Income on Nov 16, 2011 7:27 PM EST
in 2011 Free Agency
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Deron Williams, perhaps having seen some "woe is me" comments on this site, tweeted something interesting late Wednesday from Istanbul. When a fan noted that "Maybe your next game in the NBA will be as a Brooklyn Net?", Williams responded "Definitely a possibility!"
There's been a lot of speculation about how D-Will could pick up and leave fair New Jersey (or Brooklyn) and find another place to show off his talents. That's true. However, as this NetsDaily analysis shows, if the owners' last proposal becomes the basis for the new CBA (and the players have agreed with most of it), he will leave a lot of money on the table if he goes somewhere else.
Whether there's a season or not, if the Nets re-sign Williams to a new contract this summer, he will be owed roughly $101 million over five years. But if he opts out of his $17.7 million final year and signs with a new team, he'll get $76 million over four. That's #25 million.
How so? The owners' final proposal (much of which the players agreed to) permits teams who hold "Bird Rights" on their own players to re-sign them to five-year deals with 6.5% increase. That drops to four years with 3.5% increases for new teams.
And there's more. Who would have the cap space to take him on? The list is short, barring dramatic trades. Here are the candidates with their cap space at the end of this season: the Nuggets with $39 million (but with significant cap holds); the Pacers with $33 million; the Clippers also with $33 million (but with a cap hold for Eric Gordon); the Kings with $32 million; the Hornets with $30 million (and with the only point guard in the NBA who might be better than Williams in Chris Paul); the Celtics with $28 million (and Rajon Rondo); the Suns with $27 million (and Steve Nash); the Hawks with $21 million; Charlotte with $20 million and the Timberwolves with $18 million (all of which would be needed to re-sign Kevin Love).
And what about the Rockets, the Mavericks or the Knicks? Shouldn't they figure in this mix? Are they realistic?
Houston has $52 million in salaries. If they didn’t pick the option on six of their rookies they would have around $25 million in cap space.
Dallas has $44.6 millon in salaries committed for 2012-13. If they amnesty Brendan Haywood or Shawn Marion of course they would have room. But what do you have left?
New York has $40.3 million committed with Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire. If they didn’t pick up Toney Douglas option and amnesty Renaldo Balkman they would have $15.2 million in cap space. Not enough.
Also, remember all of this cap space does not factor in first round picks for next year
The Nets? The Nets on the other hand could have up to $44 million in cap space in 2012 (without Travis Outlaw). That could be good enough to sign Williams, add another max player at $18 million (hint, hint) plus either keep Brook Lopez or add another player at $8 million ...or do something creative. With the Killer B's record, that has to be considered.
Now, if he opted out and decided he wanted to go to a team over the cap but couldn’t because of that team's cap situation, he could be used in a sign-and-trade but would risk losing over $25 million. Extend-and-trades are prohibited. If say this season was somehow rescued and he wanted to pull a Carmelo Anthony and be traded at the deadline, he could but the team he was traded to would have to wait six months to sign him. That's a risk.
Also, assuming that the season is rescued and he decided he wanted to extended before the season, it might not be the smart move. Because of the vagaries of the owners' proposal, it would be better for him to wait. So don't be surprised it he does.
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i think the money will be a huge part of his decision
if the nets can offer him more than anyone else i think he will stay. not that i’m criticizing him for it because i’d be the same way, but deron seems to be all about his money. he’s the only star/top 10 player who had a new job lined up before the lockout even happened.
deron williams is better than kyrie irving
by William_H_HOLLA on Nov 16, 2011 4:31 PM EST reply actions
If given the opportunity, I would be as well, if I had 3 kids and a wife to support.
"Success is peace of mind which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - John R. Wooden
by D Will to Succeed on Nov 16, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not criticizing him, but don't be ridiculous
It’s not about supporting a wife and three kids when you’re talking tens of millions.
by KeithVanBread on Nov 16, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
It’s not like he won’t be set financially wherever he signs. Money is not the sole determining factor. Location & roster will also play a big part in his decision.
if that were the case
why not sit around and play exhibition games? He wanted the SECURITY of getting $5 milllion, MUCH MORE than any other player.
Name me ONE NBA player who passed on $25 Million.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
McGrady probably gave up something comparable
When he signed with the Magic even though Toronto had his bird rights.
Melo & Bosh would have if Cleveland/Toronto refused to sign & trade them.
four
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Curious...
….would the Kings be considered a big market team too if they move to Anaheim in 2012 (ie LA metro area)?
Not that they would be too much of a threat… But cap space + big market could mean something, especially since they don’t have Sterling like the Clippers do.
they would be considered the Kings...or Royals
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Can't speak for him
but if he’s like Melo, he’ll stay.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
That plus options and the ability
To turn our roster over quickly and dramatically I think is big, although we have to get it done. Draft picks will be huge if there is no season.
"We're not there yet, but we're going somewhere," Johnson said. "And we're going to Brooklyn. We're not going to contract. We're going to Brooklyn."
Dallas and Houston are threats
When you take into account the amnesty provisions and the fact they can renounce their free agents, and Houston also has tons of rookies who’s options they can decline.
Dallas only has $40m in guaranteed salary
not counting amnestying Haywood or Marion.
(Granted they would have Dirk and no one else.)
Houston only has $33m in guaranteed contracts without amnestying anyone.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
and thus less than any other team on this list
this is CAP space we are talking about, not salary.
Cap space of $58 million – $40 million = $18 million almost all of it tied up with Nowitzki.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Sarver does not.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
by Net Income on Nov 16, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Not that I think they are a threat
Just pointing out Nash expires after this season.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
and he's pointing out the cheap owner
who let amare walk even though they were literally minutes from an NBA finals appearance and thus wrecked his team for the third time
because remember he traded marion for shaq which failed miserably, got rid of barbosa, and let diaw go after 2007 who diaw had only been there 3 years after
he got rid of joe johnson who seamlessly fitted into that offense along with kurt thomas and quentin richardson and declined to go get a big who could run up and down the court
and for a person so hell-bent on not bloating his payrolls with proven vets he sure did not have much of a backup plan as he was able to swipe barbosa from the spurs but they sold draft rights of:
Luol Deng
Marcin Gortat
Nate Robinson
Rajon Rondo
Sergio Rodriguez
Rudy Fernandez
from 2003-2007 simultaneous to gutting rosters of productive vets who were due extensions
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 16, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Like I said they are not a threat, I was correcting this...
“the Suns with $27 million (and Steve Nash)”
Steve Nash expirers after this season, so if we’re talking the 2012 season, he will be gone.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yup.
Was going to say that those two are curiously absent from the list.
really?
Cap space of $58 million – $40 million = $18 million almost all of it tied up with Nowitzki.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Dallas...
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/mavericks.jsp
$40m for Dirk, Marion, Haywood, Brewer.
w/o amnestying anyone they can afford D.Will most likely.
If they do amnesty Haywood they could get a couple pieces for depth.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
and have no one on their roster
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
I didn't think we were comparing rosters
Rather possibilities.
Given he is from Dallas, maybe they are more of a threat than most the teams you listed.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
given that they wont have anyone other than Dirk
and all those players you list will be how old?
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Again not the point
If we were listing who we felt were realistic destinations, teams like Sacramento or NOH wouldn’t be listed. If we are listing possible destinations, Dallas should be included.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
yes, but they have PLAYERS
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
NI... your words from the article
“Who would have the cap space to take him on? The list is short, barring dramatic trades. "
Dallas has “the cap space to take him on.”
They have even more if they amnesty Haywood/Marion.
They have the same cap space as Minny, who you listed with $18m.
This article was not written about realistic places D.Williams would sign, otherwise you would not have mentioned NOH, Sacramento, Minny, etc. etc.
That’s all my point was.
Dallas should be added to the list of teams “who would have the cap space to take him on”
.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Houston and Dallas...not realistic.
Houston has $52 million in salaries. If they didn’t pick the option on six of their rookies they would have around $25 million in cap space.
Not realistic.
Dallas has $44.6 million in salaries committed for 2012-13. If they amnesty Haywood or Marion of course they would have room. But what do you have left?
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Houston does not have $52mil in salary
Try half that. They don’t have to pick up options on Thabeet, Flynn, TWitt, or Hill.
Dallas can renounce
Roddy Beabouis.. who is a nobody who has been injured and insignificant
Dominque Jones.. who?
And then have $40m in payroll.
Thus Dallas has "the cap space to take him on."
They have even more cap space if they amnesty someone.
This not a question of what teams have cap room and 10 players under contract. It’s simply who can afford D.Will. Dallas can.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
guarantee if beaubois was renounced all 29 other teams would make a serious offer for him
he’s been hobbled by a foot injury like damion james and nic batum when he first came in. but the blazers and nets didnt just renounce them because of that.
plus he’s already shown flashes in the 2009-2010 playoffs
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 16, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
If the choices are
Sign a max FA
Keep Roddy B.
The choice is easy… depending on when they have to make their decision on Roddy B.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
they'd likely trade someone else instead
who has a much bigger cap hit than him. Lets see Corey Brewer, Rudy Fernandez, or Roddy B. who should i keep for the long run out of the three?
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 16, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Dallas is absolutely 100% a threat
A very real one.
Section 18, Row 7 at The Rock!
"Your 2010-2011 New Jersey Nets - It Is What It Is"
by eLonepb on Nov 16, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if that's a threat fine
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
by Net Income on Nov 16, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They could amnesty Haywood or Marion
If they amnesty Haywood, DWill gets 2 years to play alongside Dirk & then Dallas will have huge cap space again, which coincidentally is the same year the Miami circus all has opt outs.
Amnesty Haywood, let Chandler go (in order to have as much cap space as possible)
and who plays C?
Again they’d have to let everyone go and keep 34 yr old Dirk & Marion, and no one who can man the 5 nor any decent wings, how’s that enticing at all?
its the same thing
with the Lakers and Howard.
Kobe is going ot make $30 million in the last year of his deal.
They are getting older and the new CBA will hurt them.
The only good young player they have plays the same position as Howard and would have to be traded to get him.
This isn’t purely about money. it’s about REALITY.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Reality is we don't have any players either.
You keep saying “Who would Dallas have?”
Well who would we have?
Get Dwight,or trade for a true star like LMA or there is a very real possibility he walks.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 16, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Brook Lopez, Anthony Morrow, MarShon Brooks, Jordan Farmar
all 25 and younger, none making more than $4 million.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
I hear you, but is that better then Dirk, Roddy Buckets and maybe someone like Chandler in a player like Deron's eyes?
If there’s no 2012 season Dallas becomes a legitimate threat cause they don’t have to overspend to stay a contender this year, they can amnesty Haywood and possibly trade Marion with a 1st, or maybe Roddy Beaubois or Dominique Jones and some cash for cap.
It wouldn’t be easy, but it is still a possibility and not as far fetched as it sounds.
I still think he stays here and I’m still very optimistic we get Dwight, but you can’t just write off Dallas as nonsense, it could happen.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
if they sign Chandler they won't be able to afford a max player
and the difference with us is we’ll have around $23M in cap space whenever free agency opens, so we can add a couple of impact players to go along with Deron and Brook, and if there’s no season we’ll have a top 5 pick on top of that. Sounds much better than a 34 yr old Dirk, a 34 yr old Marion, and having to fill out the roster with min. guys with no one at C and no wings.
Well I was saying if they could dump Marion.
And depending on how cap holds work in the next CBA they could possibly do it with Marion on the roster and at worst dumping Corey Brewer on somebody.
Listen, I’m still optimistic we can resign him, but it’s foolish to just write Dallas off if there’s no season.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 3:39 AM EST up reply actions
Nets are last in the league if we're looking for a team with talent
if we don’t factor in our Free Agent in 2012.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
i doubt they can dump marion without taking back salary
because of how many years he has left on his deal, it’ll have to be marion for mo williams or some other player who expires that year or has a buyout.
i dont see any team under the cap willing to take him on just for kicks. except for teams that could use some more vets like the thunder or pacers that are already playoff-caliber teams
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 17, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Well he will only have 2 seasons left on his deal at that point and they can add incentive.
Dominique Jones and a 1st might get it done.
Roddy Buckets should definitely be enough incentive if they were willing to include him. Cuban said he would only trade him as part of a package for a superstar, well if they needed the cap to sign a superstar it’s pretty much the identical concept.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
yeah i think the underlying point
no matter what they do, in order to get deron(and chandler) they are going to have to deplete the roster
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 17, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
& if we don't sign Howard?
Is Lopez, James, Morrow & Brooks that much better than Nowitzki+Marion+fillers?
Dirk is old and getting older
there is no way they ever make it to the Finals again. If he wasn’t such a deadly shooter, he would have been o nthe decline, but I don’t think there is anyone that can guard his trademark one leg shot.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I more or less agree with this and that works in our favor.
But, after Dirk was gone they might have max space again and it will be Deron’s team, not sure who will be a free agent in that offseason.
Listen I’m not saying Dallas is a threat so desirable and scary we should be shaking, but they are viable and in the conversation even if on a lower scale.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Some of us, including me have said they are in the mix
but many people, like you, keeping shooting other people opinions about this.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
Like me?
I’ve said from the door if there is no 2011-12 season it makes the Mavericks a serious threat, but if there is a season they aren’t even in the conversation and I stand by that.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I take it back then
but I’ll see if your taken credit when CP3 becomes a Magic lol
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
Haha!
Salty, that would be the word.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
that doesn't make sense
Playing a shortened season in front an empty newark crowd doesn’t do anything. But losing a season, signing Dwight instead of role players and moving to Brooklyn and getting a top draft pick are all much better reasons for deron to stay and the mavs to not even being legit contenders
by i says on Nov 17, 2011 4:28 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Missing the season for the Mavs has nothing to do with us in the sense I'm saying it and it makes perfect sense.
They are in the same boat.
Miss the season and they don’t have to make panic signings and clog up the cap.
The Mavs are a nonfactor with a season because they will NEVER have the cap if we have an 11-12 season, but without it they become players in regards to having the actual ability to be.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
exactly, deron has a heart but he has to understand the business
sign and trade to dallas: new jersey likely gets back brewer, beaubois, jones, rudy, mahimmi, and picks
so dallas has:
dirk – 19 mil
deron – 17 mil
terry – 11 mil
kidd – 8.5 mil
marion – 8 mil
haywood – 7.5 mil
thats roughly 70 million without tyson chandler. amnesty haywood still above 60 million in payroll. so 70 mil with no depth, terry and kidd expire together the next year. so then they will be about 8 mil under the cap with plenty of holes still to fill.
trade-and-extend scenario even worse because he loses his option year money and has to become a free agent and as NI stated will have worse escalators so the mavs will have more money to spend on plugging those holes but thats because deron is making less money.
so 70 million for:
Haywood, (vet min)
Dirk, (vet min)
Marion, (vet min)
Terry, (vet min)
D-will, Kidd
(11th man, 12th man vet mins)
and then the next year you lose kidd and terry and have 8 million in cap space, plus the stricter CBA rules that are no doubt going to be put in place to curb excessive, reckless spending
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 16, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
The Nets will not sign and trade Deron
If that is even permissible.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
well thats the only way he's getting to dallas
the mavs payroll is at 63 million right now without chandler and without deron two players who are likely to take up 35-40 million dollars in payroll.
but lets say we lose this season. the next season mavs lose terry and kidd and will have about 12 million in cap space(without counting cap holds) and if they amnesty hawyood they still have 20 million in cap space the most.
so is deron going to play in dallas for 12 million and chandler for 8 million? or are they going to give deron a max and ask shawn bradley to play on vets min? its about as crazy as saying Chris Paul is going to play for only 10-12 million a year in New York on a flawed roster but Dallas fans are smart and thats why they really arent running their mouths off on that scenario
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 16, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
add cap holds and they don't have room for a max
not to mention they’d have to let everyone go and Dirk will be 34 by then.
They’d have to revamp the whole damn roster one or two seasons after he signed there, the chances of them being very good in a year or two are not very high imo, it’d be risky to say the least… how does it make any sense to sign ong term there? They are not a threat.
Mistake #1 - Amount of likely lost wages
Reposting from an earlier thread:
The bigger difference between signing under Bird rights versus signing elsewhere is added job security. In all likelihood, he will not make $25million more as a Net than he would signing elsewhere. The reason is In year 5, he’ll likely still be in the league & will get another contract. In Year 5, he’ll be 32 years old & likely no longer a max player, but as a PG, he’ll likely be able to fetch another large contract.
So what’s he leaving on the table by signing elsewhere. First, let’s examine what he would have made after 4 years here versus elsewhere:
6.5% raises here: $76.68mil over 4 years
3.5% raises elsewhere: $73.34mil over 4 years
Difference: $3.34mil over 4 years. That’s not a huge difference when you’re talking max contract.
The big difference is what he leaves on the table in Year 5. If we was in the final year of a Bird Rights deal he’d make $22.38mil. At age 32, he may not fetch that, but he might get at least $15mil per year for another 4 years. That would mean he left $10-$11mil on the table over a course of 5 years (worst case scenario).
The hardest to predict variable is the decline in his next deal. The Heat clowns negotiated opt-outs after year 3. Why? Answer: To hit free agency again while they’re still in their prime. DWill is a bit older, so his situation may vary slightly, but he’ll need to consider what his next contract would look like if he signed it at 31, 32 or 33 (3 year deal, 4 year deal or 5 year deal). The longer he goes on this deal, the less he’ll likely get per year on the next deal. Seeing as how he’ll be in his 30s regardless, he may best be served going the full 5. Howard is in a different situation. He’d be 29 at the end of a 3 year deal; 30 at the end of 4. He’d probably be well served having an out after 3 or 4 years to get another max contract while still on the right side (or right at) 30.
That doesn't even account for potentially reduced expenses
Tax savings incurred living/playing in a state with no state income tax.
Savings on second residence if he decides not to move his family, and rather signs on with the Mavericks.
and playing in a state with fewer marketing opportunities than New York
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
If u win marketing opps will open up for stars
NFL- Peyton manning (Indy), Aaron Rodgers/Brett Favre (GB)
NBA- Le Bron (cleveland!), D Wade (miami), ect
NHL- Crosby (Pitt)
NY as the marketing capital does not have the same pull it used to. I think winning is much more important to Dwill than marketing opps.
Surround him with A list talent and he will be here. Dont, and he will be gone. I think its pretty simple.
D Will in 2011...BK in 2012....
It may or may not
Amare has made a lot more money here than in Phoenix already and Melo has made a lot more money here than in Denver. That is the comparative.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Do we know that even matters?
DWill seems to be cut from a different cloth than the other stars. He seems more of a low key family man, and less concerned with marketing. Maybe it’s because he played in Utah & he couldn’t do anything about it, but he just doesn’t seem to put his “brand” as that high a priority.
Money is money is money.
If we’re going to imply that Williams doesn’t place money as high on his list of priorities then this whole discussion is pointless (well, this discussion is pointless is a very strong sense, but whatever).
oh come on
please….just please. How is being “a family man” affect your desire ot make extra money on endorsements.
he has a new agent who is very much high profile, who got him the deal with ESPN New York last month.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
That's what I thought at first too...
…until he decided to take his entire family with him to Turkey so he could make a couple bucks during this lockout
sorry but that does not compute
if he wasnt a family man, he would have left them behind and played in Europe.
He is protecting his family’s long term interests the best he can, by earning “a couple of bucks” also known as $5 million, rather than playing in dumb exhibition games that pay at best $10,000 per.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
I'm sorry
I simply don’t follow your logic.
It’s not “job security”. It’s guaranteed money, not a guaranteed job. In year five, he is GUARANTEED $22 million. He doesn’t “leave anything on the table”. It’s guaranteed. After year five, who knows what happens? Why in God’s name are we concerned about his NEXT contract after this.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Agree
There is no guarantee what your contract will be 5 years from now. What if you have a career ending injury between now and then? That’s $25m in guaranteed money he is assured of. There are no assurances he can make up any of that.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
You can't ignore his next contract
He still has earning potential at age 32 or 33. Yes that’s not guaranteed, but you can’t ignore it. You can say he’ll give up $25mil in guaranteed money, but most likely he will make up a large portion of that in the first year of his next deal barring a career ending injury in the next 4 years.
yes, I can
I dont care about his NEXT contract, which will be FIVE years from now…one year short of the next CBA.
this is ridiculous.
“most likely” he will or he will not.
I give up.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
You don't care
But I’m sure he & his agent will. When considering their options they will take into account when they want him to hit free agency again, and what they believe that market will provide.
It’s not as black & white as you are making it out to be. He’s not going to make $25mil less over 5 years.
how can you be "sure"?
ONE MORE TIME: in the next contract, the Nets will have the SAME advantages they have now: his Bird Rights. The new CBA will last a minimum of six years.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
So will whatever team signs him
Bird Rights are irrelevant from a future perspective, because whomever he signs with will hold bird rights when his next deal is up.
no.
the Nets will have his Bird Rights until they trade him.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
No
If he signs in Dallas or Houston or wherever, when it’s time for his next contract, that team will have his Bird rights.
i'm sorry you dont understand Bird Rights
really, the NETS control his Bird Rights until they don’t.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Yes I do
& the minute he completes the third year of his next deal, whatever team he’s on has his full bird rights.
Let's say you're correct. And 3 years into his next contract the new team he potentially signs with will have his bird rights...
By that time he will be 30-31 years old. So whether the team has birds rights or not, he wouldn’t get a huge payday at 30-31 years old. Not with all of these young, quick and athletic PG’s coming into the league…
Dwill is currently 27 years old- the time for him to cash in on his biggest payday is now! He is not going to chance waiting 3 years into his next deal…
Another good point
PG is deeper than ever. D.Will’s value is at its peak right now, and will only go down after a couple years.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Or he will ask for a trade and we will get good assets for him in a sign and trade...
We will not be left with nothing regarding dwill
I don't think so
Sign and trade him to who and for what?
We’re not going to get decent assets back and the cap space is arguably more valuable.
Besides the new may not allow it, and there will be plenty of teams he can sign with.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
DWill would have to really hate the Nets to leave
The negativity here is crazy
by DJ HeavyDuty on Nov 16, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Mistake #2 - Teams with cap space
Assuming no 2011-2012 season & an amnesty clause:
Nets (Amnesty Outlaw)
Nuggets
Celtics (If they amnesty Pierce)
Thunder
Suns (Amnesty Childress)
Cavs (Amnesty Davis)
Pacers
Clippers
Kings
Wizards
Timberwolves
Rockets (Amnesty Martin or Scola)
Spurs (Amnesty Ginobli or Jefferson)
Hornets (Amnesty Okafor)
Are all teams that have the cap space to fit 2 max guys. Granted many don’t make sense for DWill. However, in addition to those teams, the following teams should have enough room for at least 1 max player:
Mavericks (Amnesty Haywood or Marion)
Warriors (Amnesty Biedrins)
Blazers (Amnesty Roy)
Spurs (Amnesty Jefferson)
Raptors (Amnesty Calderon)
19/30 teams will have enough cap room for at least 1 max player. Anything can happen. It’ll be a bigger mess than 2010.
That also assumes though that..
Many of those teams renounce all their free agents, and in many instances don’t pick up their rookie’s options.
I agree there will be competition, but not that extensive.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
No 2011-2012 season makes that decision easy though
They can sit on resigning their guys. If they can land a max star like CP3, DWill or Howard they’ll turn around and renounce their rights to their FAs or rookies. If not, then they’ll keep their guys. You don’t let good players get in the way of landing a franchise player.
seems so easy.
dont forget renoucing draft picks too. go all the way.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Or
Trade them for a future first
Or
Trade for 2nd rounders which don’t have a cap hold (Houston has done that in the past).
If we’re talking a team like Dallas, they won’t let some late draft picks stand in the way of landing their next franchise player.
yep, it's that easy
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Miami, New York and Chicago would make you think so...
Hell us for that matter.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 16, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
"Granted many dont make sense for D-Will"
It seems your role here is to prove with some reallllly extreme arguments that he shouldn’t stay.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
I'm not saying he should stay
I think he should. I think we’re his best option. I’m just shining a realistic light on our so called enormous advantage. It’s not as big as we’d like to think it is.
no, it is NOT realist
to make a decision in 2011 on what may or may not be the case in 2016. You find me a case where a player gave up $25 MILLION guaranteed.
He could make it up…somewhere else? Based on what? Nets will STILL have his Bird Rights on the next contract. They will still have the same advantages they have now because the CBA, assuming it is based on owners offer, will still be in effect and he will still have the right to an extra year and double the salary increases.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Agreed. 25 Mil, guaranteed cannot be overlooked.
players have always forced the team they signed with to do a sign and trade so that they get the final year. Kidd was the one who gave up his last year even though he stayed in NJ so Nets could hire ZO, but then at the end of his contract he never got what he was looking for which is the reason he was pissed. Its foolish of a player to leave guaranteed money.
No. he did not take the last year
That was used for ZO’s contract
by SunilP on Nov 18, 2011 6:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Nets hold the cards for Dwill the same way the nuggets held it for Melo...
The nuggets were just dumb enough to let melo bully them. Nelo even said that he would’ve signed the extension in denver if they refused to trade him because he was not losing that money…
Dwill is not leaving 25 million on the table with a family in the middle of a recession. Granted he would still be very rich if he walked over to another team and signed with them. However, he is not leaving 25 million on the table. He is not a marketable player that can make that money up in endorsements.
Dwill is in the midst of his prime. he is losing a MAJOR payday this season. Next season he will be 28. He is not going to chance his biggest payday at this stage of his career. Either he signs with the nets. Or we trade him and get assets so he can get his money. He is not just up and walking.
under the old CBA thats the case
but not in the next one.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
and not one of them will be able ot offer him $101 million
without a sign and trade.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Not listening to what he or anyone else says
He doesn’t care about market size, new arena, owner, GM, coach, city, state, MONEY, or publicity. His agent may, but when it comes down to his decision, we have learned he cares about one thing and one thing only: WINNING.
Not about if he mentions the Nets in a twitter response or in an interview. It’s about what player will we acquire to ensure winning.
Bottom line – We (look like we’re going to) win, he stays. We (look like we’re going to) lose, he goes. Plain and simple, so it’s really enough of this trying to read his mind through his tweets and words.
by Barclays Center 2012 on Nov 16, 2011 5:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's always about the money
again and again, name me a player who left $25 million on the table.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
$25 million?
really.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
prove it
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Not hard to:
Yankees offered $140 million – He settles with Phillies for $120 million
by Barclays Center 2012 on Nov 16, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
that's baseball
please stop.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
It doesn't matter what sport
It goes to show that there are athletes out there who wil go to the best place to win instead of take the most money.
And it’s probably more than $20 million with endorsments being the ace of a NY staff and the #2 in a Philadephia staff.
by Barclays Center 2012 on Nov 16, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
yes it does
they are governed by completely different contracts, with different rules for guaranteed deals.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
well if we were in a baseball CBA
Prokhorov would have already given Deron a 150 mil deal and outbid all the other owners including Arison, Cuban, Dolan, Buss, and Grousebeck for all the top free agents and would have landed plenty
Deron, Joe Johsnon, Gay, Boozer, Lopez would have been a realistic lineup in a baseball CBA and thats why we shouldnt compare the two
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 16, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
LOL!!!
Exactly
and we wouldnt be wondering if howard was coming to the NETS.
we would know he is because Proky would offer him more then what Cuban would.
Official Member of the "DIDN'T WANT TO TRADE DERRICK FAVORS, BUT HAPPY WE GOT D. WILLIAMS" Movement
Lol, lets not get crazy here with Proky
plus no one outbids Mark Cuban, even if Proky is richer. Plus money isn’t everything, some players prefer to take a paycut, to go to another team. Money plays a major factor, but so does team success and location.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
how many major impact baseball players have you seen take serious paycuts?
Money rules over everything.. think the miami trio would be playing together if the most any of them could make was 9-10 million a year?
kobe like winning but he also likes to make his money too. He could have easily taken a paycut to help the lakers payroll on several occasions but did he?
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 17, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Not yet, but if he was asked to or knew he had to
he probably will. Money does talk, but I’ll wait and see if it talks loud enough to bring some success to the Nets and Brooklyn
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
LeBron also left a large amount
by Barclays Center 2012 on Nov 16, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
LeBron game up $2 million
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Per year
He roughly gave up $12 mil over the course of his deal.
Still alot of money
When you think about the length of NBA careers
by Barclays Center 2012 on Nov 16, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
he got an extra year because it was configured as a sign and trade.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Lebron is a marketing guru...
Whatever money he left, he makes that up 10 times in endorsements. Dwill does not have that market value…
not now
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
he is the most hated athlete in America
according to polls.
why because he left Cleveland.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
This is true... But there are a lot of his fans defending him...
As much as he is hated, he still has a lot of fans. I myself am still debating lebron lovers in the barber shop…
doesn't mean he isn't the most popular
FRANKS AND BEANS FRANKS AND BEANS
by lemmetakeutodamovies on Nov 16, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
We hate him, but we still respect him
We are all witnesses
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
I definitely don't see as many ads. He does know that it
costed him financially and that was one thing he didn’t anticipate a lot of it had to do with decision, but more of it was because people had put him on a pedestal and didn’t accept that he would choose the easy path. Heck Kidd didn’t do that when he had the chance to join TD in San Antonio. That’s why he was no longer a “king” type of role model.
Kidd thought he had a Championship team though
which many thought as well, but in the end Kidd bolted before he was even a Free Agent. If Kidd had a magic ball and saw the Nets wouldn’t win a championship, he would have left as well, and this franchise is lucky he stayed.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
not he did not.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
You shourld realize
that neither LeBron nor Bosh signed with the Heat.
LeBron signed with the Cavs and was traded for picks.
Bosh signed with the Raptors and was traded for picks.
It worked for both teams. LeBron may have given up a couple of million but he got the extra years. So did Bosh.
The Cavs and Raptors got draft picks from the Heat. Otherwise, they got nothing.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
So basically what you are trying to say
is that it is a done deal that D-Will is staying. Because basically you’re saying that an extra $25 million is his if he satys and that no athlete turns that down.
So explain why people are worried at all?
by Barclays Center 2012 on Nov 16, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
And how are we even so sure he is leaving $25 million on the table
I couldn’t imagine the benefits of staying home are that extreme.
by Barclays Center 2012 on Nov 16, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
JJ signed for 6/123
LBJ and Bosh for 6/110
LBJ left about $13m on the table.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
LBJ was signed in a sign and trade
he got an extra year because the Heat got the Cavs to go along with a sign and trade.
So he gave up nothing. He gained that extra year.
It is one of the real myths that he gave up money. If he had signed as a free agent (he didnt). By signing with the Cavs and then being traded he more than made up for what he would have made if he had signed for full free agent money.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
but he did give up money,
because if he actually would have signed with the cavs, for the cavs, he would have signed for more
although he got as much as he would have if he signed outright with miami, he didnt sign for what he would have if he signed for the cavs. therefore, he left money on the table.. its really simple
If LBJ signed with Cleveland he could have gotten an JJ max like Atlanta
Gave him for 6/123.
LBJ instead signed with Miami for 6/110.
LBJ sacrificed about $13m by signing with Miami as opposed to Cleveland.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Aren't we expecting Howard to do just that?
So that he can play in Brooklyn
LBJ and BOSH
did not give up as much as everyone thinks… Florida has no state tax, and after taxes, I believe it was just a few million he gave up over the course of the entire contract…
Going by contracts it was $13m each gave up
Additionally, I would have to think LBJ actually was a bigger money maker being the sole face of the a franchise in the rather large state of Ohio and Bosh being the face of Canadian basketball. But I could be way off there.
All I know is each could have received JJ type contracts of 6/123 and signed for 6/110 instead.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Does everyone understand
that one of the key tenets that led to his lockout is the owners’ desire to limit player movement…by among other things, offering players a better deal if they stay home?
The next CBA is going to give home teams advantages, no matter what it looks like.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
by Net Income on Nov 16, 2011 5:46 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Totally understand... Dwill wants to get paid. He aint just up and walking away...
If he wants to leave we are getting assets for him…
true that but from Deron tweets
it looks like he is in favor of players determine where they can play at.
Again he said he is interested in being a free agent and honestly feel he will be one.
The players seemed read to concede on everything but restricting where a player can go.
So that should let you know that these players want every advantage they can get.
So they are not just forced to stay with a team.
I mean we are having this conversation about Deron but when it’s about Dwight.
It’s Dwight is gone.
I don’t get it.
no one knows what these players will do. I know one thing if Deron feels Dallas BK or Houston is his best opportunity to accomplish the goals he set he will sing with that team
My lil man.....can't tell me god don't exist.
by killa kadafi191 on Nov 16, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
yep, he will give up $25 million
and the players have already agreed to the conditions I based the analysis on.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
There's a big difference
between the situation ORL is in, and the situation we are in.
One team has flexibility, the other does not.
by NetsKiNG on Nov 16, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yea, and one team can make the playoffs easily
and the other one has won 36 game in 2 years
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
Actually the difference is $52.8 million using the latest proposal
If Deron were to stay he would most likely pick up his option because it has an 8.7% increase over this season. Then the Nets would sign him to a 5 year extension with 6.5% raises off the next season salary of $17.8M… that totals to $124 million over 6 years including the option.
If he were to opt out and leave he would get a four year deal with 3.5% raises off his $16.4M salary for this season…. that totals $71.2 million over 4 years.
Average salary in both scenarios… $20.7M to stay vs. $17.8M to leave.
Yes, that is what I was wondering? Isn't it 4 years elsewhere, vs. 6 years with Nets because of the Option year??
I please stop with the statement that Deron only cares about Winning.
He has already indicated that money IS important, by saying that the terms of the new CBA will be important – he is talking about Money.
No
Unless the CBA changes the rule, the maximum length of the deal after the extension is 5 years, but that includes the current & remaining seasons.
From Coon’s CBA FAQ:
All other extensions are limited to five seasons, including the seasons remaining on the current contract (even if extended in late June, the current season counts as one full season toward the total).
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q52
So he could get 4 years after the option year if he signed an extension next offseason. To do so, he’d have to not exercise his ETO. If he was committed to the Nets & wanting to maximize his earnings, he’d not exercise his ETO & then sign an extension a some point next season. If he exercises his ETO, then we know it’s not only about maximizing money.
we were referring
To the proposed rule changes…not the current rules.
by Netted on Nov 16, 2011 8:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Assumptions make you know what's out of u and me
This all assumes so much. The next CBA could be dictated by the courts and it could be a major victory for unions and Sign and Trades will be back as will be no caps. I cannot see a pro-union court not upholding absolute player movement and a very liberal cap situation. Players may end up with more leverage, not less. So, Dwill could do as well or better bolting. Hey, there could be pure free agency like MLB if the right judge and the right appeal courts get their way.
you are assuming
that the courts will dictate the agreement. They will not.
This isn’t about the courts, just like the NFL deal wasn’t about the courts and they went a lot farther in court than the NBA did.
Players will wind up with more leverage? PULLLLEEEEZE.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Yes, and it was the players side who refused to let ALL the NBA players take a vote.
Whenever it occurs that ALL the players have to vote (after losing 2 or 3 paychecks), it will be to get the shortened season going.
At this point players will NEVER vote to decertify and get ZERO income for this season.
Stern was correct, that this was a bargaining ploy by the players.
And there's no assumptions in this post?
I think we’re all aware a deal isn’t in place and there are limitless possibilities.
I don’t see how court rules for anti-trust when there are plenty of NBA players making a living playing overseas.
To be honest, I don’t think the courts settle anything. They hate making decisions on these types of cases. We’ll miss two seasons before they decide.
by Netted on Nov 16, 2011 7:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Labor had the advantage during last CBA
and when it resulted in losses for the owners they decided to stop looking like idiots and take it back. They will fight to the death to get it back.
by Netted on Nov 16, 2011 8:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
and they will lose
they missed opportunities, big ones.
I am very pro-labor, but this is a microcosm of the labor movement: incompetence.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
by the way
never underestimate the unintended consequences, the loopholes in cobbled together deals that can change the calculus. That’s what agents do, collectively and individually.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
@NI questions
1 If Deron or any free agent left, wouldn’t it be more of a benefit for the new team to have a short contract in order to give him a raise on the 2nd contract
2 why would DWill wait to be extended?
Yes, and what would DWill's salary be in Year 1, according to the proposed CBA?
Would it be 0.30 × 58 million or 17.4 million?
How do you account for his 17.8 million option year?
Wouldn’t he get SIX years total, with his 1st year beginning AFTER his option year?
I can't see him
Leaving for anywhere but Dallas. But if we can sign Dwight its like signing of both of them
by i says on Nov 16, 2011 7:25 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
There are some ridiculous comments being made in this thread
Can Deron leave? Of course.
Will Deron leave if we don’t add some serious talent? Maybe.
Do the Nets have a HUGE advantage over other teams in the league to keep him? YES.
by NetsKiNG on Nov 16, 2011 7:33 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
its beyond skepticism
its pessimism.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Deron is a strange dude
He very well could leave millions on the table to go somewhere to be happy. Not that this is wrong.. just not what most athletes do.
I’m not saying he would play for 5 million a year less. Plus, he has a strong agent (Schwartz).. But.. if Deron isnt happy in Brooklyn. he will leave.
Most athletes care about ego and money. then winning. Deron cares about what he cares about.
If we were talking $5mil or less
than I would agree, but the Nets would really have to screw up IMO for him to walk out on NYC and $20+ mil
let's see
Deron Williams is the highest paid player in Europe ($5 million) and the only player who’s making real money during the lockout. He planned for it for more than a year and kept it quiet.
He switched agents from a guy with one NBA client (him) to one of the biggest, toughest agents (Kidd’s agent, among others) to prepare for free agency.
this guy isn’t about money. They are all about money. It’s all about money.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
and dont you think its a coincidence that the nets have the most players overseas
Think Farmar, Gaines, and others werent asking Deron advice and he was glad to help them out.
no they werent fronting talking bout DUH MECCA for life when you are about to take them to court in the foreseeable future or GO Buy My Shoes broke kids
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 16, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
D-Will's example
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
uh, he is a top 10 NBA player and 27 years old
you dont lose a guy like that.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Bigger things in life to worry about, than if our PG leaves because he finds a better prospect. Yes it would be horrible if he would walk but I'm not shedding tears sorry.
Sorry but I’m not shedding a tear if he leaves after we try and lay out the red carpet for him…
you might have bigger things to worry about
The Nets do not.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Absolutely agree with it being a big hit for the franchise.
We had 12 wins one season with Kiki running us into the ground along with Ratner running this franchise like a flea market, but we saw brighter days when we got Deron. My point is if he does leave, it may be bad but it can’t get any worse than it has been for years. We are in a new arena with plenty of cash. We will be okay.
of course it can get worse
it will prove to everyone that even with a change in ownership, a new arena, and contractual advantages, the Nets are the Nets. It is essential that they keep him.
If they do, i’m out of here.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
100 recs
My lil man.....can't tell me god don't exist.
by killa kadafi191 on Nov 16, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
no, but I saw it
and going to post it separately….because what was the first thing he said when asked about the Knicks fans. “We’ll be bringing our own fans”. That be us.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
But I'm very glad Billy said that.
I prefer we go about our own business, do what we have to do to establish the product, and if fans want to leave their team for the Nets, we’ll welcome them. I think putting the emphasis on drawing another team’s fans is a little weak.
I’d rather not obsess over the Knicks and their fanbase… I wouldn’t want to end up doing stuff like this: http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/11/28/1840796/nets-knicks-rivalry-its-on-the-air. I find it a bit classless.
Assumptions Again
NI,
you are making a dangerous assumption thinking that this is only about leverage and not about something larger. I hope you are right, but I fear that this is a bigger struggle that may end up dictated by court rulings (not necessarily decided). It is also very possible that while the courts will mandate negotiation, they may set very restrictive parameters. We are in uncharted territory. Anything can happen. PLEEEZZZZZ
they are not going to court
this is a game of chicken and my assumptions are no more valid or invalid than yours.
Boies said yesterday he hopes that the case never goes to trial. When the plaintiffs’ lawyer says that, he is saying to the defendant, lets make a deal on this.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Technically it has already goten to court
It’ll never get to a full blown trial. There will be some motions filed early, and depending on which side wins, they’ll know which side is forced to capitulate in negotiations. The biggest & earliest of which will be where the case is to be heard.
it has been filed with a court clerk
that’s not going to court.
No dates have been set, no discovery set.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
If it gets to the courts, the season would already be cancelled.
And the ENTIRE NBA would have to vote first, after having at least another hunk of salary lost.
Are they going to vote to lose a whole season?
Even Amare could lose 4.5 million before it could get to the Courts.
I doubt Amare would vote for decertification when the time comes for the REAL vote.
I also doubt Amare would want to piss off his Knicks franchise, who have been so nice to him and the Knicks have been one of the more progressive teams in the negotiations.
Net income
Kind of unfair to use our cap space post a Travis Outlaw amnesty but use other teams cap without an amnesty don’t you think?
by Clayton Balch on Nov 16, 2011 8:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This Dallas talk is unbelievable.
First of all, they are likely to lose Chandler because under the new rules, it is near impossible for the Mavs to re-sign him. And yea Terry’s contract is up, and you can amnesty Haywood. They will have cap space, but who will they have? An old Marion and an old Dirk? Puhleeze.
I agree that the pessimism needs to calm down
But Dallas appears to be an option because of Deron’s Texas origins, and the fact that the Mavs offer great player amenities, a 34-year old Dirk with maybe at least some gas left in the tank, and a passionate owner that’s willing to spend.
I'm sorry, but I must be the only person on here who is not worried if dwill leaves...
I do not think dwill leaving is doomsday for the nets. As I said in a post earlier, we have a billion dollar arena in NYC. We have a ton of cap space (and if dwill leaves that will free up another 17 million)- we would have more free cap space than anyone. And if the season is canceled, 2012 would be one of the biggest free agent classes ever! The Nets would be the most attractive destinations because we would have a bunch of money and an organization located in the greatest city in the world. Along with that, we have a young center who is only getting better and a top 5 pick in a very deep 2012 draft.
Dwill leaving would hurt. But it would not destroy this team. The nets would bounce right back…(and let’s not forget brooks could turn out to be a pretty good player)
And its not like dwill is going to be this great player for years to come...
He is 27 now. 28 when the season starts next year. He will only have 3-4 prime years left in him.
yeah, like Kidd or Nash
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
by Net Income on Nov 16, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
2 special exceptions...
And dwill is no jkidd. Jkidd was not only an excellent floor general. He was a great leader…
until his migranes
came into play. but i dont blame him for being unhappy with Ratner cutting cost. I just wished he did it differently
yup
Kidd was a top five player with Kobe, shaq, kg and Duncan in his prime. He was an mvp player and the undisputed best point guard in the game, and one of the best of all time.
D.will is no Jason Kidd. Kidd’s play, production, leadership, intangibles and iq were off the charts.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 11:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
he is to my mind
the closest thing out there to Kidd.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
by Net Income on Nov 17, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah Deron's getting underrated here.
Kidd was a serious leader, defender and his intangibles were off the charts but Deron is just better on offense plain and simple and he’s not some schmo in those other areas.
Kidd was an amazing player and had qualities and impact you couldn’t always measure with stats, but Deron is no slouch and a lot of Kidd’s career he put up very meager #’s.
I don’t mean that to sound like I’m talking bad on Kidd, he’s one of my favorites of all time and is possibly the most important player in this franchise’s history, it just needs to be put out there.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
pg that 2 best of all time with triple doubles dude is hof
D Will i’m not sure but i totaly agree with idea that it not over if d will leaves. i hope there’s still sign and trade so we can get westbrook or k love as free agents etc.
by Aidar Berlinbayev on Nov 17, 2011 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
2 Words" Chris Paul
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
tell your boy to stay healthy first
heard how those nfl players say ‘best ability is availability’ he’s going to need surgery soon his next b roy
by Aidar Berlinbayev on Nov 17, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
True, but I'm not writing him off
until he ends up in a wheel chair. CP3 is the best PG when healthy, and trust me, his haters and opponents would love to see Paul stay off the court. This lockout may be helping him the most.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
style wise rondo is more similar
His defense, rebounding and fast break passing reminds me more of Kidd.
Also being closest doesn’t mean he’s as good. There was no pg comparable to Kidd in his prime. Paul is/was arguably better and rose is more important to his team…nash probably as well. Kidd was not only the best pg, but an mvp type player.
In his peak you could mention Kidd, Kobe, shaq, ,Duncan all in the same breath. You cannot mention d.will in the same breath as lbj, howard and wade. Theres larger gap between the top 3 or so than the rest of the field.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 7:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Don't ever compare those two again
Rondo is playing with 3 debatable HOF’ers and is Outlaw on offense. Kidd was a play maker, not just a great passer. He turned scrubs into stars, and stars into more efficient stars. Kidd was well built to for a PG, played great defense, forced alot fo turnovers, rebounded, AND most importantly, posted up other PG’s. He’s the most underrated player the NBA has ever seen, but I guess that’s because everyone knows, seen, and expects Kidd to do a little bit of everything since he’s been in the league for 17+ years.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
I said style-wise
Not talent wise.
Kidd wasn’t exactly the best shooter either when he was on the Nets. IMO Rondo finally gets his due but was criminally underrated for a while. When Harris had his AS year, people would gasp when I said Rondo was better and I would trade Harris for him in a heart beat.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
On offense, they were both Handicap
but Kidd was a one man fastbreak and could post up players. Its weird though, because Kidd has a good form in my opinion, but his FG% was horrible, while Rondo on the other hand doesn’t hold the ball right, so most of his shots are off. And as I said before, we will see how godo Rondo is when Bostons ancient 3 are retired. Put Rondo on this team any year after Kidd left, we’re just as bad or even worst. Harris also flourished because he was option #1 while he had an aging star as #2, who was often there to bail him out and mentor him in a way. You really have to hand it to Carter to giving Harris the keys to the wheel, because he knew he was next to go, instead of putting up 30 shots so his stats could be inflated.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
his jumper is just as off as kidd's was his first 8-10 years in the league
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 17, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
his jumper is just as off as kidd's was his first 8-10 years in the league
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 17, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
No.
Double post for the double post. :)
But I also wanted to say how god awful Rondo’s shooting is.
I mean vomit inducing.
Guys play off him from literally 10 to 12 feet out it’s flat out embarrassing and a detriment to his team.
He would be a complete liability if his teammates weren’t all such good shooters for their positions and overall.
The only reason Rondo’s FG% stays so high is because literally almost all his shots come at or close to the rim and he’s a great finisher.
Putrid.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Jack Handy Jr wrote:
In his peak you could mention Kidd, Kobe, shaq, ,Duncan all in the same breath
Eh, maybe as Nets fans but certainly not in reality.
All 3 of those guys are top 10 players of all time IMHO.
Kidd was the same as Deron, great great player who was a top ten lock for a # of years and a real MVP candidate but he was on a separate tier below those other guys, but the top of that 2nd tier.
Rose was just the youngest MVP in league history and I have him as 8th overall right now and at the middle of the second tier for example.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Of course you could
Kidd the far and away best PG who proably deserved MVP more than Duncan.
Kobe far and away the best SG
TD and KG far and away the best Forwards
Shaq the best center.
All time, sure it’s a different story, but for a couple seasons, Kidd was a top 5 player in the league and a serious MVP candidate. I’m not sure Deron will ever be the clear cut best PG, top 5 player or MVP candidate.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't put Chris Paul on the same level as Dirk, Lebron, Dwight or Wade but I have him exactly 5th.
Kidd was a great great player and one of the top point guards of all time, but he was still a tier below those guys.
Of course all time rankings matter!
These guys are all basically top 10 players of all time, Kidd doesn’t even sniff the top 20.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
The fact is.. Kidd was nearly MVP
During a time when TD, Kobe, KG and Shaq were playing and arguably in their primes.. and like you said they are some of the best players of all time.
I can’t see Deron coming close to winning an MVP with LBJ, Howard, Wade, Rose and Durant around.. let alone come close against TD, Kobe, Shaq, and KG of the early 2000s.
Kidd was playing on a level that I don’t think Deron is capable of. He’s still one of the best PGs in the NBA, but where near one of the greatest of all time, which Kidd is.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Arguably in there primes
but weren’t. But I think your spot on that D-Willz will never win an MVP unless he can pull a 60 win team along with a championship while averaging 25+PPG, 10+APG, and 5+RPG all in one season. Don’t get me wrong, D-Willz is a good PG, but CP3 is just better in my opinion.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
I hear what you're saying and I understand context, but...
Why can’t Deron go for say 20/12/4 while leading a team of him and Dwight and whoever else to a title and and high 50’s to low 60’s in wins not win or even be considered for an MVP while Kidd was on 15/10/7 while shooting 39% from the field?
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
He took a D-League team to the Finals....Twice
50 wins is unimpressive since there are like 10 50 win teams every season, 20-12-4 is sort of impressive for a PG, but it doesn’t look as good as Lebrons 26-7-7 with steals and blocks into the mix. And the key thing which many forget, is that MVP is an MVP because if you take him off the team, how would they fare. On a side note, my vote for MVP in Football is Peyton Manning lol I will never question how valuable he is EVER AGAIN.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
"High 50's to low 60's"...
And that team was not D League.
It’s amazing what Kidd did with that team, but Kenyon, Kittles, RJ, Van Horn and others were all very good players but young and misguided with an awful teammate and leader in Marbury before Kidd.
That’s not to take away from Kidd, awesome player, great leader, but let’s not go overboard trashing the rest of that roster.
No one was mistaking it for an All Star squad, but they fit Kidd and Byron’s perfectly and he brought them into their own.
The East was horrific during that time as well, like worst time period in the conferences history.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Just look at that team now
Dead and Gone with there pockets fulled. Plus the EC was really bad as you mentions, which helped them alot more, but I wont make that a reason why they were that good. I honestly feel that a team with Kidd, Carter, and healthy Kristic was better than that Finals team. The toughest part of being a Nets fan was to see them make it to the Finals twice and come away with nothing. Kidd was a unique player, and often underrated, but he’s a Legend to anyone that watched him play his whole career.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
Because look who Kidd did it with
Kidd transformed the team.. the franchise.. overnight.
He made K.Mart into a max contract player.
He made RJ look like a top flight SF
He allowed Jason Collins to be a starting Center
He helped Frank win however many games in a row
He made the team believe, he made us legitimate. Only what Nash did in Phoenix, rivals what Kidd did in NJ when it comes to a single veteran player changing teams and transforming it.. unless I’m forgetting someone.
Kidd was sheer joy to watch, and made his teammates lives so much easier on the court. He have them confidence and swagger on and off the court.
Until I see Deron do that, he is just not comparable to Kidd. Even in Deron’s best days in Utah I never got the impression he did much other than play in a system that had been in place for ages. I don’t think he meshed well with AK or others.
Kidd simply has the intangible you don’t see very often, and I don’t see in Deron.. yet.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Talent wise he's Kidd with a jumper
but its goign to be hard for him to accomplish the things Kidd did, even career totals.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
No, just no
If Kidd had Deron’s shooting touch from the outside during those championship runs, we probably would have had a title, Kidd an mvp or two, and he would have had a case to be the best player in the league.
Deron beats Kidd at only one thing I can think of…. shooting. Passing, rebounding, defense, leadership, intangibles, size, strength vision, bball iq, transition play.. everything i give at least a slight edge to Kidd. Kidd made himself a first ballot hall of famer from his time in nj, not his longevity or title last season.
Maybe I’m ‘underrating’ Deron, or haven’t seen enough of him yet, or maybe he’s not here yet, but I don’t think Deron is in the same league as Kidd and Kidd is getting underrated.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 8:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Im on your side guys
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
Derrick Rose was just MVP and he doesn't hold a candle to Lebron, Wade or Dwight and IMO Dirk.
I hear what you’re saying. I loved Kidd and yes he played at an insane level for about 4 years and is one of the best point guards of all time, I would say top 5, probably 4th best, but he was still a tier below all 4 of those guys although he was the top of the next tier.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
D-Rose belonged there this season
he played out of this world last season, but his success alogn with his team will be hard for the Bulls to duplicate.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
And that's where I would argue the hype has eclipsed the substance.
Rose was excellent, but was no way on par with Lebron, Dwight or Wade.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Look at it this way then
Lebron and Wade played together, two fo the best at there positions on the same team. Howard didn’t make it out of the 1st round, and that left the overrated Hawks and the undertalented Bulls lead by Rose. He’s a good player, but how good of a career he will have at the end of his career is beyond me.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
Isn't it a little misleading to call the Bulls undertalented and then just say, "Howard didn't make it out of the 1st round, and that left the overrated Hawks"?
Orlando more or less had an awful roster outside Dwight and Jameer, and Jameer is just decent.
J Rich was terrible.
Hedo is junk at this point.
JJ Redick is decent but way overused.
Ryan Anderson is a specialist.
Bass?
Arenas?
Who am I forgetting?
Bleck!
And honestly, Chicago’s roster is pretty damned solid outside shooting guard.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
There team is trash
but they knew how to play team defense, which apparently doesn’t matter to many these day if they have one player doing it well, like Howard. Then we have Orlando, who had scorers, but just a failed system,which was exposed by the Hawks. They made sure only Dwight Howard was going to have a field day on them, and didn’t let anyone else get going. before last season, if someone would have told me the Bulls would have won 62 games and make it to the ECF, i would have smacked them lol
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
The Bulls are trash?
Wow.
Boozer/Deng/Noah?
Trash?
And didn’t let anyone else get going on Orlando?
Yeah, that’s because that’s a 20 win team without Dwight, so it’s not hard to stop the rest of them.
But yes Chicago overachieved and I surely didn’t expect that either, but I did expect 50 something wins and the 2nd or 3rd seed before the season started.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
You were probably the only person then
because I wasn’t hearing anything about the Bulls until after the season. 20 wins without Howard? That’s kind of ridiculous, since this team could win 12 games with nobody good lol
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
Cleveland and Toronto became incredibly awful and unwatchable simply by losing Lebron and Bosh respectively.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Well to be respectful, Lebron is a great player, and the greatest that came out in the 2000's draft
Every decade a great player like that is drafted, and Lebron was it during the 2000’s, so for the Cavs to suck after is understandable. Also, they have some good luck in the draft, and drafted some high ranked players, but they will never fill the hole Lebron left when took his talents down to south beach. The Raptors were unwatchable after the media pushed Carter out, and it was super sweet when they finally made the playoffs as the #3 seed, that Air Canada took them out with his #6 seed team.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Every decade a guy like Howard is drafted too.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying he isn't a great player as well
But Lebron is going to retire with some incredible numbers when he’s finished. The scariest thing is that Lebron is only 26, and is NOW entering his prime. The only way Howard could improve is to get a jumper and hit his Free Throws, which he’s improving on. Some people just don’t see how good Lebron is, even though he made a decision that many feels is stupid and will tarnish his legacy.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Orlando is trash without Howard and imo one of the worst teams in the league. He is their offense and defense.
Chicago before rose was a consistent playoff team. Deng is very underrated, boozer for all his shortfalls was still an all star pf at one point and Noah plays like a top 5 center much the time. They have good depth, especially up front, a great coach and only lacked a starting quality shooting guard.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 10:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But there's a se[eration from playoff team and Elite team
as I said before, its going to be hard to duplicate the success they had last year, but they played at an Elite level, until they ran into a team with 2 and a half stars. Bulls were good, but make no mistake that they could ever compete with the Heats even if the team got bashed by everyone everyday.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I agree with you completely on this.
The Bulls are not a year in year out 60 win team and are not real contender, at least like you said, they’re not elite.
They are the type of team that gives the illusion of contending and is talented enough to catch lightening in a bottle and win the whole thing once, but that’s about it, just like a Dallas or Miami with Shaq.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
There 1 good SG away from actually competing for a Title
but Its going to be hard to get a good one, and not a decent one, a good one.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that he'll leave
but I am not naive either. But so far imo, as long as we lose the season to a lockout, we should be able to retain him and also be able to build a contender.
If we have a season, we are screwed. There really is no way around it. No trade chips(can’t assume that dwight will be on the block) and we’ll be forced to sign players just to show him we’re doing something. As stated before, this is the wrong FA class to try something like that with.
Hopefully the players will have killed their chances at a season, and we get to continue on with our plans for world domination. If we can dodge this bullet, we should be able to retain Deron and assemble an insane team
Give me Howard/Lopez with Deron/Brooks in the backcourt(hoping that Marshon develops) and a nice 3 that can defend and stretch the floor.
yes, I have been hoping all along that the season get cancelled
Basically we have a chance at something super and that will get squashed if there is a season. If we have the chance at becoming a dynasty even if that is remote one should try for that period. I would do that, signing FA’s from this year is like earning pennies on the dollar.
in 2012 if every thing falls in place, we will have the chance at signing Dwight outright. Even if it is a Sign and trade it can be Trade Exception + Future Picks not 2012 picks we simply don’t have to give any thing back other than that.
That means we will have DWill, D12, Lopez, Ammo, Brooks, Farmar, James, + two probably one high pick in 2012 Draft.
There is simply no other team as good as that line up period.
Agree Mr. DB
Hopefully Deron does what Wade did and has already started talking about Dwight about signing here if there is no season. It is amazing to think how we can be at one extreme or the other opening Brooklyn. It’s possible we have Dwill, Dwight, Brook, Brooks, Farmar, Morrow, Bogdanovic, James, JWill, and a 2012 draft pick (possibly top 5 in a loaded class). All of this opening up Brooklyn would be HUGE for us as it would help the Nets garner extreme interest and attract as many fans as possible. Of course Deron could also leave, ruining all of this but I think he stays because I agree with NI in that the 25 million and opportunities he has here are too hard to turn down.
by dwill8brooklynbound on Nov 16, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
$25 million is $25 million
literally and figuratively, it’s the bottom line.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
What makes Deron any different than Dwight. If Deron is more likely to stay with us cuz we can pay him more, doesnt it mean Dwight will likely stay in ORL cuz they can pay him more?
by WR3 on Nov 16, 2011 10:14 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
dwight has played with same roster more or less for 5 years
and the upside is completely gone(as in first round fodder for the hawks) unless dwight starts playing like Wilt or Arenas becomes an NBA player again along with Nelson and Turkoglu becoming something more than halfway decent starters
Deron was in the same situation in Utah, wanted and got a fresh restart with the nets. Hopefully he has some more sympathy to stick it out at least for his option year and then become UFA and help recruit for the nets at least one offseason. even he signed a 3 year deal like wade and co, by year 3 if the nets have failed then trade him before he can walk
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 16, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
So it's all about the money for Deron but Dwight is the I Just Want to Win Screw Da Money superhero?
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 16, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
well, Dwight could have re-upped in ORL prior to the lockout if he cared that much about the money
Deron we don’t know
And like Starbury said, Dwight has been in ORL long enough to realize they aren’t going anywhere and don’t have the flexibility to make thins change.
You guys are really getting gassed up over unrealistic expectations.
If Dwight comes here through FA it will be by S&T, that is just a given.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 4:03 AM EST up reply actions
well
when Dwight declined the extension offer he didn’t know if S&T would be permitted under the new CBA. So again, if he cared that much about the money he would have re-signed there prior to the lockout.
I've often questions people logic
when comparing Howard and Williams because there in the same situation. There is an equal chance both of them leave there respective teams, yet many feel they will both end up here, which im not saying is wrong. Not only do the players decision matters, but the GM’s also play a role, because if either of them says they want out, they will be traded to the team that’s most appealing to the players along with the best package available. What makes the decision even harder, is that the lockout interfers with seeing how good or bad the Nets really are, while for Magics, they will makes the playoffs because they have better players, and mroe experienced players than the Nets, no matter how bad we talk about them.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Dwight still could sign an extension after that, of course he was going to be able to after the lockout.
Everything that’s logical and of common sense pointed towards a new CBA either limiting player movement or at least giving healthy incentive to stay with your own team and S&T’s will be kept for a couple years to make a compromise.
He couldn’t sign an extension the same Melo wouldn’t before traded, it takes away all his leverage and then puts him on a league wide open market and then he could be traded ANYWHERE.
No dice.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
didnt people say that the lakers couldnt afford Shaq
if dwight isnt traded his last year and hints that he’s going to be a UFA everybody that can will find a way to to clear space for him
He’s going to get his money no matter which route he chooses. Like I said Deron was in the same situation in Utah: a small market team with an owner bleeding money trying to build a contender but their best success was short lived
Deron has stated how hard it was to get people to play in Utah(unless the payroll was severely bloated from excessive overpaying of players) and that the trade was best for both parties.He got a re-start but i hope he understands the nets cant do much in 20 games and a locked out season
Dwight on the other hand: would you trust Otis to clear up that 80 million dollar payroll and get you some more help? Lebron didnt trust Ferry and Gilbert, Melo didnt trust Kroenke, why should dwight trust Otis and become Minnesota KG reincarnated?
what i dont understand is how people cant blame people like Kevin Love and Blake Griffin from counting the days down before they can leave and “taking looks over their shoulder” at their owners but Dwight has to sign for the extra money and loyalty and trust Otis because “Otis tries hard”, just because he puts in effort doesnt mean he is good at it, this the same dude that locked up adonal foyle, danny forston, mike dunleavy, and troy murphy to big deals and couldnt keep Larry Hughes, Antawn Jamison, and Gilbert Arenas together
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 17, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Thing is, we are basing this off of no season
Orlando if they want to improve the roster, or LA if they want to clear cap space, have to make those moves and resign Dwight all within a small window of time. I also can’t see too many teams willing to help them out, given the ramifications and time constraints.
If there is a season this year, that is a different story, but no I don’t see LA or Orlando being able to make the moves they need to make in such a short period of time next summer.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
One more thing about NY...
New York has $40.3 million committed with Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire. If they didn’t pick up Toney Douglas option and amnesty Renaldo Balkman they would have $15.2 million in cap space. Not enough.
It was enough for LBJ and Bosh who both started out with $14.5m salaries year 1.
shumpert is likely taking 1.5 million off that figure
so a little less than 14 mil. about 13.7 million. and even then the knicks wont be able to build a roster as barren as the heat and amare and melo arent wade and bosh
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 16, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
They would be foolish to waste their Amnesty on Balkman.
I am serious when I say that Knicks need to save their Amnesty in case they need to use it on Amare (or even Melo) later on.
The Knicks won’t admit to it (very embarrassing) but since Amnesty can only be used on players under contract as of July 1, 2011, it could still be used several years from now – on Amare.
That's a good point.
Although I don’t think its necessarily embarrassing at all.
Say we miss the season, then in 2012 they sign CP3.
Keep the core together for 2 more years and if a big time younger FA hits the market in 2014 and/or Amar’e looks like toast they can get out of his contract a year early.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 4:29 AM EST up reply actions
because both of them and Wade all took that
a max guy signing for less while Carmelo and Amare make 20M a year is not the same as the 3 Miami guys signing for around 14M each.
Miami’s big 3 in 2019 made a combined 42M
Amare and Carmelo make a combined 45M in 2012
42 million in 2019?
Que?
They make over 52 in 2012.
Melo and Amar’e make about 40.4…
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 4:06 AM EST up reply actions
lol sorry for the typos
In 2010, when they got together, the Miami big three made a combined $43M,
In 2012, Amare and Melo make a combined $40.5M.
So they are not comparable situations. Melo and Amare wanted to get every penny they could, all of the three Miami stars took a paycut, now you’d be asking that 3rd max caliber player to be the one to take a significant paycut while 2 inferior players are making as much as they can.
Orlando is interesting...
Amnesty Arenas
Stretch exception on Turkoglu (if they can)
Reddick – team option declined
Then they have…
Nelson – 8
Duhon – 3
Q.Rich – 3
Bass – 4
Orton – 1
$19m in salary or about $35m in cap space after roster holds and draft picks.
Really, it looks as though almost any team can afford at least one max FA if they play they cards right (amnesty, free agents, rookies), except for LA, Chicago and Miami.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 10:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
stretch provision cannot be applied in players already signed under the previous CBA
and it’s not only that they’re in salary cap hell, it’s that Dwight is on the record as hinting he’d like to go to a bigger market
They would have to waive the player that they apply the Stretch Exception too.
It is for Future players though.
The could however include Turk in a trade with Howard and get a rebuilding team in Orlando.
I told you guys there's a chance CP3 ends up in Orlando
and knowing smith, he might trade away everything but Howard to make it happen.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
If they can't get rid of Turkoglu
Then actually they don’t have much chance.
He’s either going to cost $12m or $6nm and either way severely limits their ability to sign a 2nd max player. Dwight would have to opt out, and then he and CP3 resign for a significant pay cut.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
I've forgotten NBA rules a bit
but lets just saying teams go over Salary cap, like most Championship teams do, what’s the proposed penalty in the new CBA? And I can see Howard opting out to get CP3 here.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
They have to be under the cap to sign him
And can’t go over it to sign him. Thus it is a cap.
They can go over the cap after they sign him via trades and an MLE.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Or sign CP3 first then Howard?
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
no that would be nearly impossible
they have to go under the soft cap enough to sign chris paul outright and still have enough space so they can sign dwight with his bird rights which means dwights cap hold will also cut into the cap space
they’d be better off trading everyone(bass, RA, nelson, redick, duhon, clark, q-rich, orton, the rookies) in some mega-deal to get Paul and his bird rights after they give arenas the amnesty and basically put spare parts next to Paul, Hedo, and Dwight
but we’re talking bout Otis. Do you really think he’s going to pull it off and find a way to keep Dwight?
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 17, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think he's dumb enough to give away the team
for one player. Im not saying it will happen, but GM’s always find a way to get trades done. Rather that or CP3 ends up in DuH gAhDeN
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
Dumb enough?
That whole team is deep fried lake farmed boot.
Otis would be GM of the century if he could get CP3 for that flaming pile of radioactive refuse.
It would make the VC and Gasol trades look like the Deron trade.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, you guys under rate every player not playing on this team
We think Farmar, Gaines, Brooks, Lopez, Graham, Petro, Outlaw, and Humphries are ALL stars, and that we can form a package with our cold pile of garbage to get Howard, which is nice, because without the optimistic people, the glass would always be half empty, instead of half full.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
You're so caught up in your pessimistic borderline self hate of this team that you just come up with whatever craziness that comes to mind.
Our assets have nothing to do with the fact Orlando has zero assets, nothing but garbage scrub players outside Jameer who’s a touch above average, Reddick who’s so average it hurts and Ryan the specialist Anderson and are a 20 to 28 win team without Dwight.
The Magic have at best the assets to get a guy like Iggy or Kevin Martin and even that is a stretch.
Chris Paul would need to get his leg caught in a wood chipper for Orlando to be able to trade for him in real life.
Fact is, Brook is a super high level trade asset, Brooks, Morrow, James and our picks aren’t great assets but are legitimate assets overall.
And the schtick lumping me in with those that think the rest of those “players” are assets doesn’t fly cause you know that’s not my MO.
/end rant
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
I can't continue to do this until this team
gets good or continues to struggle. We’ll see next year what this team will look like, before anyone calls me “pessimistic” or showing hate for this team. You guys think we have goods assets, fine, lets see who we get. If we get Howard and keeps Williams or somehow get CP3, I was wrong in every single way, shape, and form. If this team gets AK-47, Prince, or Nene, I was wrong as well. If this team ends up going to Brooklyn with a High School varsity team, can’t say the “pessimistic” person didn’t say so.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
But your overall view has nothing to do with specific things you say.
There is no argument, I mean no debate, just a total nonstarter to think Orlando has the assets for CP3, it is out and out delusional and sounds like the Knix fans that say Chauncey, Toney Douglas and Landry Fields will land them a superstar, no exaggeration.
And yes, I think we have a good asset, that being Brook Lopez and I think we have a number or OK assets in remaining picks, Brooks and James, but nothing crazy with the latter.
If you say, “I don’t think anything will pan out for us, we’re done.”, well that super pessimistic but I can’t deny you your opinion nor argue against that being a very real possibility.
But when you try to tell me Orlando has legitimate assets and has a realistic chance at CP3, it is not an opinion, or anti-homer realism, it’s delusional.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, we will see
I once doubted this guy on the ESPN board 2 days before we got D-Willz because he said D-Willz was on the market and we could land him, and I sounded like everything you just told me. It may not seem possible now, but I’m no GM nor am I in charge of constructing a team. You guys better pray he doesn’t walk though, otherwise everyone will realize how bad the Nets will be for years to come.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Haha man I'm not trying to sound all in the know, but Orlando's roster and trade assets are just obviously putrid.
Not even bad, but crap.
I will say to toot my own horn lol, I called Deron being one of the next stars traded in 08-09.
And the trade that landed him, I basically came up with that exact deal like a year before King pulled itoff lol.
I wonder if Kevin O’connor reads RealGM…
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, I blasted the guy who proposed the D-Willz trade
and I had to swallow my words like a expensive hooker(keeping it PG-13 for Nets14) lol
But as I said we’ll see, but if he goes to DuH gUhDeN I’m taking my talents to Posting and Toasting lol
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Oh and I meant the 09-10 season is when I called the Deron thing.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, I believe you ;-) lol
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
"_________ has a face of a Star, and that Star is Lassie"-Jeff Ross
by Shameer1016 on Nov 17, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
NI, I think you give yourself too much credit
what makes you think deron reads this website and the comments on here? I’ve never seen him tweet anything that looked like a direct reply to posts on here ala CDR or otherwise indicate he’s ever seen this website.
deron williams is better than kyrie irving
by William_H_HOLLA on Nov 16, 2011 10:39 PM EST reply actions
I'd bet he does
SB Nations sites are huge and as far as I can tell this is one of the best ones when it comes to content and activity.
He mentioned Real GM once. This place blows Real GM out of the water if for no other reason that it is Nets specific.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 16, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
read it again.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
I would love to see the Knicks get Chris paul...
ONLY if we got Dwight Howard. Can you imagine those games? Amazing!!
dwill was born
In Virginia… He played his high school ball in Texas…. Why does everyone keep saying he’s from Texas.
speaking before you think can have severe consequences, however doing it in reverse can have beautiful results!
by Mike28Live on Nov 16, 2011 11:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
He went to elementary school , middle school , and high school in Texas according to wikipedia. I’m not exactly sure when he moved from good ole West Virginia. He won a state wrestling title in Texas at the age of eight.
"This isn’t fantasy or rotisserie basketball. Why would Denver want Outlaw? Would you?" - Al Iannazzone
by strange-brew on Nov 16, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
He is from West Virginia
which is why he roots for the steelers.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
well lets be reall
1-NI saying D Will will make more money over here with his birds right completely agree.
2-Nets will never let D Will walk away for nothing. Okc will be best option for both D Will and nets if there’s a sign and trade in new cba.
3- i persanly disagree money is rvrything for d will but beside nets there’s no other team out there that can sign both d will and d12 outright,plus new arena bigest market etc.
just looking at this 3 reasons i dont belive either whatever peaple in here might think, D Will is not going anywhere because this is the only team that can compete with Miami. All i hope for BK Lopez is still a net just like this boy peaple here just dont realize how good this gay can be i’ll go as fa as saying he will be way better than P Gasol for this team. dont even consider bynum as a good player just going to say his legs finished its over for him.
by Aidar Berlinbayev on Nov 17, 2011 12:38 AM EST reply actions
I didn’t know Lopez was gay , not that there’s anything wrong with that.
"This isn’t fantasy or rotisserie basketball. Why would Denver want Outlaw? Would you?" - Al Iannazzone
by strange-brew on Nov 17, 2011 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
Disney, crazy neck hair, Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Twilight, the Brook and Ryan Show...
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
by vincecarter4pres on Nov 17, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
Do you think If the Nets land Dwight...?
Do you think if Dwight is on this team, They trade Lopez for a stud SF or SG or try the twin towers thing?
I think King would see what was offered and if it wasnt an allstar or someone with potential they keep Lopez.
Optimism
I think Dwight’s top two choices are the Lakers and Nets…if he’s signing as a FA over being traded. Lakers would need to do some maneuvering to make it happen but I think they can make it happen. As for the Nets, the appeal for Dwight would likely be being part of one of the most dominant front courts in the NBA — BLo and Dwight. Scary! For as much as we knock BLo’s softness, he does block shots. Now imagine the both of’em down low! Only thing nets need to get is a solid defensive minded and strong SF. All Morrow has to do is follow the team defensive game plan and sink shots when open. DWill controls everything else. This is a solid contender. I don’t care what anyone says. And it’s so easy for it to happen. Dwight just needs to make it to Free Agency before Orlando has a chance to trade him.
Yup.. that team would be special
And an immediate title contender…
D.Williams / Farmar
Morrow / Brooks
- / D.James
Lopez / J.Williams
Howard / Petro
I think that team is capped out, and may even need to move Petro to make it happen, but it is feasible. If we can get Drummond, Davis or Sullinger, I would love to move Lopez for a wing.
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Darn it.. how do I edit? I put the number sign in from our 1st round pick
by Jack Handy Jr on Nov 17, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
cap #s
…can be a strange ally. If you have a plan, anything is possible!! Hehe.
Anyway, they likely end up trading Farmar and letting Gaines be the backup PG.
cap #s...
…can be a strange ally. If you have a plan, anything is possible!! Hehe.
Anyway, they likely end up trading Farmar and letting Gaines be the backup PG.
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