Overpaid, Underpaid, But No Outlaw
Now that seemingly interminable ESPN ranking of the top 500 NBA players is done, some of the same experts are crunching the date to come up with other rankings, including the most overpaid, most underpaid and the most and least efficient, all according to the rankings. And the Nets figure in all of it...but not Travis Outlaw.
Among the most overpaid is Troy Murphy, who was ranked #263 but was overpaid by more than $8 million. That puts him eighth on Larry Coon's list. Brook Lopez, on the other hand, is underpaid by nearly $10 million at #51. That places him 9th on the underpaid list, writes Coon.
But Coon also reports that the Nets are the "team that got the least for their buck".
- #NBArank -- NBA's most overpaid and underpaid players - Larry Coon - ESPN
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Comments
Can't really argue with that list cuz those guys are making 8 figures
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
Kobe Bryant being on the overpaid list is a complete joke
Indicates whatever the formula is, its wrong.
$25 Million for a fading star? Lakers aren't making Finals again unless they pull off another Gasol trade
Not sure when Bryant contract is up, but my guess is that’s what there basing it on.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
by Shameer1016 on Oct 19, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but coon also notes
that bryant doesnt get a cut from jersey/merchandise sales or tv revenue so based on production yes its overpaid but his overall impact is worth that and then some
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Oct 20, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
i see your point
but two a’s and two f’s is a s***** report card..
by NJNETS29 on Oct 19, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Farmar and Morrow are A additions?
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
for what they were paid, close.
and as noted a thousand times, teams that are 12-70 often overpay.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
i would say B+ the best
because of the deals they signed too. but their roles(morrow in particular) were overextended way too often and morrow then buckled from injuries
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Oct 20, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Morrow appears fragile
Farmar is very underrated by this board.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
Farmar is criminally overrated by this board.
Fixed.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
He can stay oversea's for all I care
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
Well, I wouldn't go that far, but I won't be sad to see him go.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
My point exactly, but he's just trade bait for now.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
Disagree
You should know better with all of the back up points we’ve been through…
by Anthony Perez on Oct 20, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, this argument is garbage and means exactly zero zip and nothing.
It’s not even an argument, it’s just a senseless statement of air.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Farmar is a backup pg
So comparing him with other backup pgs (not included some fantastic games as a starter when needed) is not a valid comparison according to you?
I’m sure you’ll reply with some nonsense, but here’s the what you’re saying:
“It’s not even an argument to compare a backup pg with other backup pgs”
Um okay. I guess the only point you may have is his salary, which is on the high side of backups. But he isn’t the only one. CJ Watson on the Bulls is only paid $500k less. Daniel Booby Gibson on the Cavs is paid more. Jarret Jack makes a full $1.2 million more and he backs up Chris frickin’ Paul!
Bottom line, Farmar is a great backup point and is capable of getting a double double if he has to start. He’s not perfect. He holds the ball a little too much at times, but he has a good jumper (especially from 3) is pretty smart with the ball and can effectively handle the point position with starters and backups in the game.
But let’s put it this way: The Heat would be scary if they had Farmar. Their PGs suck (how many 3’s did Bibby miss that Farmar would’ve made?) he can run an offense, and be an effective playmaker with a team’s second-unit, which is the Heat’s achilles heal.
by Anthony Perez on Oct 20, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I would pay to see Farmer run a team into the ground
Heats need some good role players, and there clear for take off.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
And this is what I'm talking about.
I’ll start at the end and work myself to the beginning..
A) Overrating Farmar: “But let’s put it this way: The Heat would be scary if they had Farmar.”
C’mon man!
Let’s just stop. The Heat are and were scary, adding Farmar is no different from Chalmers playing a touch better as he had shown he was capable of in the past for extended periods and Bibby is just flat out better.
B) Those point guards you just listed like CJ Watson and others are a dime a dozen. Backup points have always been a plenty, but it’s increased 3 fold. They aren’t that hard to find.
C) When did you compare him to other points in the statement you made?
Am I supposed to listen to you say," I used to love pistachio ice cream" and take that as now you’ll never eat cake?
You talked about how we didn’t have a good backup point for years and that was what I replied.
How you interpreted that as anything else or considered what you said to mean something different is baffling.
The past is an entirely separate entity and has exactly negative zero bearing on the present or the future.
It’s like saying you kept trying to find a nice Honda year after year(backup point) and finally you found one(Farmar), but then 3 months later found a cheaper, pretty much equal one(Gaines) but you don’t want to trade the more expensive one for the equally nice and valuable pickup truck you need for work(Pietrus, etc., a similar player at a position of need). that you can’t afford if you keep both(cap space for 2012).
And as an OT, Anthony Johnson was a good backup, as was Dooling, we struck out other years though and Dooling was too late.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The fact we didn't have a good back up point for years
puts his performance in context with those of backup point guards in general. I use the past as a point of reference because since we are fans of this particular team, we have seen the performance of our own back up points more than any other team’s backup points.
The past as “an entirely separate entity” is bull. Every moment is the past. The past was the present at some point and held significance at that point in time, therefore how someone performed at that moment of significance is a perfectly suitable barometer for measuring performance today for a player who has similar responsibilities.
(Also, philosophically speaking your argument about the past having no bearing on the present or future is ridiculous. The past dictates what we do in the present and what we do in the future is dictated by what we do in the present – which will eventually be the past.)
To go along with your analogy, what if you traded in your nicer Honda for the cheaper, but seemingly adequate Chevy but later found out there was a problem with that model of Chevy once they pass 60,000 miles and you find yourself with a damn near lemon after you let your Honda go.
That analogy works, because that’s actually what happened with my uncle when he traded in his Civic for a Chevy that broke down only a couple of months down the line.
It also works because we have little frame of reference with Gaines.
Farmar has played 374 games in the NBA. Gaines has played 56 (and only 10 with the Nets).
We know what happens to Farmar’s performance when he goes past 60,000 miles. We don’t know that yet with Gaines…
by Anthony Perez on Oct 20, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Farmar has played 374 mediocre games in the NBA, whoopy #$%&ing doo!
And the past is a separate entity is entirely and exactly and perfectly correct, deal with it.
You can try to spin it anyway you like, but Jason Kidd’s Nets teams from 2001 to 2007 mean absolutely nada to this team today.
This is sports and it’s all cyclical, this isn’t the butterfly effect from eating a hotdog in 1997.
Your concept and philosophical counter point has nothing to do with the matter at hand.
We have gone through 5 phases of this team since Kidd first came here and are completely detached from past years, a roster of a sports team is not the effects of government policy, or a DUI you got 7 years ago, or a job you quit, or the wrath of a women’s scorn.
Walt Frazier leading the Knix to 2 titles has nothing to do with Marbury getting them to the playoffs once and swept.
In fact, David Lee as the starting power forward/center has zero to do with what Amar’e does now on the Knix or whether they should trade Amar’e for Dwight Howard or Kevin Durant if they became available.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm done with you
If you think Farmar is a mediocre pg (especially for a backup) your opinion on basketball means little to me.
by Anthony Perez on Oct 20, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't read the rest of you post until now
Of course who the Nets played at backup point has no bearing on who plays the Nets backup point now.
My philosophical point wasn’t within the context of basketball.
My counterpoint within the context of basketball, is that every minute played in basketball is important. Therefore how a backup PG runs an offense at any time on any team is a suitable barometer for measuring the performance of another point guard.
Which is what I was doing.
Still, my point stands: If you think Farmar is a mediocre pg (especially for a backup) your opinion on basketball means little to me.
by Anthony Perez on Oct 20, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Save yourself the carpal tunnel
I already know your comeback will be that if I think Farmar is good then my opinion of basketball means little to you.
We’ll agree that we think each other is clueless.
by Anthony Perez on Oct 20, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys sound dumber than me and the other fool that were arguing earlier lol
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
Actually, I wasn't going to come back with that petty insult.
People love Farmar for some reason, the main one being you’re a Nets fan and he plays for the Nets and most fans of their team tend to homer it up some and get emotionally attached.
People also look at his big shiny raw stats from his 18 starts and love to make it out that he’s a stud starter trapped behind guys, etc., etc.
Listen, basketball is subjective, especially when it comes to middle of the pack players.
Farmar is decent, but he’s dime a dozen.
I just point that out a lot cause people seem to get so emotionally wrapped up in it and want to trumpet him as some tremendous acquisition who is a core member and key cog of our team for the present and future.
He is not.
Teams are not static.
NBA rosters are turned over constantly and Farmar will likely be part of that new wave on our team.’
He is not some irreplaceable hero, he’s a guy who you can scoop up at any given moment in a draft, in free agency, through trade.
If you think Farmar is a very good bench player, I won’t agree, but I can more or less see where you’re coming from.
I’m not going to say your opinion is worthless.
It’s ignorant to judge on one opinion and/or example of a person’s view of the league and the game.
But… but… If you want to claim Farmar as a great bench player, the best or one of the absolute top backups in the league and think he’s really that important, I see no reason to continue discussing this specific issue and player.
Also to end things, let me ask you a question and I would love to hear a number of people’s answers on this one… Why are you so vehemently against trading Farmar?
What does he provide that is so critical, so important, so impactful that he shouldn’t be traded for another player, again to use an example, say Pietrus, who though full of faults himself is a decent bench player or starter in the right lineup or as a stopgap at a position we need to fill so badly when Farmar is such an unneeded luxury to this team?
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a few opinions
I think Farmar is a better player than Gaines. Hands down.
I think Farmar is an important piece to any team and is one of the better backup point guards in this league. People also often discount the role of a backup point guard but everyone saw their impact up close and personal in the NBA finals where JJ Barea was key. I know it sounds ridiculous, but without JJ Barea, the Mavs don’t win the Finals. They come close, but lose. He hit a bunch of big shots, frustrated the Heat D, got other guys open because of it, and passed the rock well.
I DO think Farmar is tradeable. I don’t know if that piece is Pietrus, but there are players that could be had that could bring some great value in return. He can be paired up for a bigger haul, or sold for a draft pick if we need the room for a guy like Dwight Howard.
My main issue is with people who disregard all of the dimensions he brings to this team. Namely your initial post about him being “Criminally Overrated.”
Not true. I think he’s a very good backup and plays an important role on this team. (Hell, plenty of Laker fans were disappointed with their backup this year in his absence) and I think people damn near lump him into Petro territory and THAT’S criminal.
by Anthony Perez on Oct 20, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see many lumping him into the Petro territory at all, I just think people like to take out of what they read as what they would like it to say to fit their argument.
I saw Farmar is OK, or decent, or even mediocre and next5 thing you know, I’m the guy saying he’s Petro.
Petro is dog feces.
I never say Farmar is actually a bad player, but he’s certainly around the same level as Blake, ironically.
Blake of 2 seasons ago and prior was a better player then Farmar by far.
And JJ Barea, I’m not sure if I would go as far as you, but the fact is, he’s wildly better then Farmar.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I didn't get to address a couple of points on this one.
A) I still stand by the fact that the Heat could use a Farmar. I think he’s better than both of their point guards.
Bibby is clearly at the end of his career. Bibby was better like 7 years ago. Not so much today. Chalmers makes a bunch of boneheaded plays and can’t really pass. He isn’t very good at the responsibilities of the point guard position.
Of course the Heat were already scary but their role players are laughable. He’d immediately be their second best role player aside from Haslem and could be a playmaker for the second unit, scoring (most often from distance) or moving the ball – something the Heat’s bench is pretty dreadful at.
The stars will get 80 a game and hold opponents to 90ish. They need a guy who can be responsible for creating at least a solid 15 points per game, and Farmar can do that half by his own scoring and half through his assists. He’s been producing at that rate for a while now. Plus, he has the championship experience they could use on that talentless bench.
B) Yeah those guys are “meh.” … and they’re getting paid like or more than Farmar. So while he’s one of the higher paid, he’s not one of the most overpaid.
by Anthony Perez on Oct 20, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
What you say about Chalmers is exactly what Farmar is and does.
It’s the reason he’s no longer on the perennially contending Lakers even though they DESPERATELY needed a starting and backup point guard/combo guard.
They chose Blake on the downside of his career over Farmar just entering his prime for more money then Farmar got, how can people get past this so easily, like it’s not a factor? Like it didn’t really happen?
B) So those guys are meh, but Farmar isn’t?
Why?
What can you point to besides your biased opinion that Farmar “runs an offense better”, “one of the best backups in the NBA”?
How about something better then big shiny raw stats as a 4 and 14 starter with little impact and suspect advanced stats?
And what backups that are worth including in this discussion are getting paid more?
As a pertinent question to the subject, aren’t you the guy that was saying around draft time Farmar was worth a lotto pick, like a high lotto pick?
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Um
“How about something better then big shiny raw stats as a 4 and 14 starter with little impact and suspect advanced stats?”
Name a single stat that I cited other than him generally having a good outside shot?
by Anthony Perez on Oct 21, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually a majority of posters on this board think he's the best backup point man in the game.
He’s an OK player, that is all and a lot of time his style of play is as detrimental as it is helpful.
We need that salary off the books in 2012 and we are incredibly thin and untalente/unproven at other positions.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Farmar must be underratred on every board
Because no where do I hear anyone really talking about him, or if they do it’s generally not that positive.. and the words overpaid are applied. I’m a modest fan of his, but I think he’s simply paid fairly for what he is.. an above average back-up PG.
by Jack Handy Jr on Oct 20, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
You're thinking of RealGM and the such Joe.
Breeze through threads on this board, I would say 80% and up are in love with this dude.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You all are missing the big picture of this post
Brook is on the floor fighting for a rebound.
i think its more likely that he sat down for a sec to imagine minnie mouse naked
and the ball happened to bounce in his direction
It looks like he just fell on his a-- and he is trying to balance himself......
The next play is where he is under the basket and the ball bounces off of his head…..
outlaw doesnt need to be on the list everyone knows he is overpaid
by RandyOreens on Oct 20, 2011 12:14 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Lol
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
by Shameer1016 on Oct 20, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
he may be overpaid
but his contract unlike a lot on that list is not crippling.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
It's true
After reconsidering all the facts, I think the Nets would be better off without an amnesty clause, assuming this season happens. Our cap advantage is more significant now than it would be if everyone could cut their monsterous contracts. Look at Gilbert Arenas’ contract.
This makes no sense.
Even if they amnesty Gil, they are still right at a current cap and that would be if they left the roster completely barren this season.
Outlaw’s contract is cap crippling.
It takes up about a 14% of the cap on a player who would find it hard to get anything more then a mil next year for 2 years and would be a situational 10th man bench player.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Orlando is but one team
But there are other teams like Detroit, Milwaukee, etc. that are a little under the cap but not much. Give them an amnesty and all of a sudden they could pursue a Nene type and be a threat in free agency,.
by Jack Handy Jr on Oct 20, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
but they are still not attractive teams
detroit finally got new ownership, they are hiring what seems to be the 10th coach in the last 12 years. and if they got rid of Rip then you still have a messy roster:
stuckey, knight, bynum
gordon, terrico
daye, jerebko
charlie v, maxiell
monroe, big ben
not much promise there
milwaukee is one of those teams that struggles to break even in profit therefore they are reluctant to go out and spend unless they make a serious playoff run. now if they axed gooden
jennings, udrih, livingston, dooling
jackson
delfino, ilyasova
mbah-a-moute, sanders, brockman
bogut
again nothing to get excited about especially since bogut is still struggling with his arm/elbow injury
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Oct 20, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Who's to say which team is attractive or not?
Our two best players COULD become Free Agents in 2012.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
Why is it a stretch to call a spade a spade?
We have a bad very recent history and a bad ancient history, but in the years in between, namely 2000 to 2009 we were pretty respected and now you cannot ignore the allure of our future.
What does Detroit or Milwaukee, etc. Have to offer?
Washington, maybe Sacto, another team or two here and there are teamsthat could be viewed as attractive, but I still wouldn’t call them more so then us, at absolute best equals, which would equate to competition, but not so stiff that they should be feared.
Hell, a team like Sacto is as attractive as it is likely to be avoided.
Might be moved and their young players are highly overrated, most of the upside with going their is simply money and Cali and they very well might wind up somewhere like St. Louid, Richmond or even contracted and the money isn’t some guarantee when their owners are on a scary downtick financially.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
News Flash: Outlaw sucks and he's overpaid
Avery Johnson can go Outlaw himself.
Hey Avery: 我觉得你做得不是很好
NETS BASKETBALL…. JUST DEAL WITH IT!
by 3ptChucker on Oct 20, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In Ian Eagle voice:
OH Troy Murphy with the happy ending!
nothin but rod thorn and otis smith all over that first list
no wonder owners can make a profit with a lost season. they need to lockout their gm’s from negotiating such terrible deals
(and i understand martin and arenas werent signed by them but had they managed the roster better they might have been able to keep them instead of providing them more leverage to drive up their price and in essence “over-inflate” their impact on the team)
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Oct 20, 2011 1:11 AM EDT reply actions
LOL, now it's Thorn's fault Kenyon got max?!
You guys kill me man, you’re in fantasy land.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Ratner
is all over that board.
wouldnt pay KMart. would pay Carter.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
not compared to those guys
and remember its a one year comparison, performance vs salary on one year, on the contract as a whole.
"It's as sweet as it ever was, I'll tell you. Now, hopefully, we started something and we can win some more championships, but we're going to enjoy this one right now. Have a little champagne." --Julius Erving, May 12, 1976, ABA champion Nets locker room.
First ESPN says that Kobe is not a top 5 player. And now they are saying he is overpaid?
They are making the wrong player angry. I am no Kobe fan, but I appreciate talent. When healthy, kobe is still the best player in the league. He played on a bad knee and with a bad finger most of the season. I respect the fact that he played through the injuries. And as far as not making the finals, it’s not his fault that Gasol played like a chic in the playoffs. Or that artest never figured out the triangle offense. Or that bynum is always hurt. If i had to win a playoff series starting tomorrow, and i had my choice of any of espn’s top ten players to lead my team (and all of them are 100% healthy)- give me kobe…
Once Lebron came into the picture and Shaq left the Lakers
Kobe reign was over. He basically chose what team to go to, Jackson put him into a system where he could become a star, and to top that off, the Lakers find a way to get Shaq and Gasol to compete for a 5 Championship run. Any good SG would have had the success Kobe had on the Lakers if they were put into that situation, but I can’t hate on him because he did well.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
by Shameer1016 on Oct 20, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Once Lebron came into the league and Shaq left the Lakers, Kobe's reign was over????????
Kobe won 2 championships, 2 finals MVP’s and 1 league MVP after Lebron came into the league and Shaq left the Lakers. And in regards to the Lakers getting Gasol, all the Lakers went out and did was get Kobe a #2 scorer. Please tell me what superstar you know won a championship without a #2 scorer? and it’s not like the lakers went out and got a superstar. Who was Gasol before he came to the Lakers? He never won a playoff game. And I think he only made the all star team once (if that). However, playing next to Kobe upgraded him tremendously. I totally disagree that you could have put any 2 guard in Kobe’s position and they would have had the same success. Kobe carried the lakers when Shaq left. And even when Shaq was there, Kobe had to take over in late situations in the game because Shaq couldn’t hit free throws.
by aug93 on Oct 20, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gasol is not a Super star?! -_-
You must now be familiar with Pau Gasol at all then my friend, and the reason Gasol never won a playoffs game is because his team couldn’t contend with the better team. You take Gasol off that team, Laker continue to fall as they did when Shaq got traded, or are you not familiar with that as well? Look at that Lakers team and tell me who do you consider a bad player after Shaq left? Most of those Lakers role player’s and 3rd and 4th options are better than this team by FAR and could of easily started for many teams. When comparing the duop of Kobe-Shaq and Kobe-Gasol, its very hard to pick out a better duo in recent memory unless you go back to the 90’s Bulls. But as I said before, I cant hate him for thriving in the siuation he put himself into. And when Lebron retires, I can gurantee ALL his career number’s will surpass Kobe’s.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
by Shameer1016 on Oct 20, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
No my man, you are not familiar with Pau Gasol...
Gasol has always been known as soft. That’s why Phil Jackson spent half the time screaming at him. And as far as the lakers falling without Gasol: please consider the 2007-2008 Laker season when they traded for gasol during that year. Before Gasol got there, the Lakers were having a GREAT season. It was clear they were going to be the team to beat in the Western conference. Boston was doing there thing on the east and everyone became excited about the possibility of the 2 teams meeting in the finals. Then Bynum got hurt. That’s when they went to get Gasol and they continued to play great. My point is, even without Gasol, that team was flourishing. Why? KOBE!
And I hope I didn’t see correctly when you compared the duo of Kobe and Gasol to Kobe and Shaq or Jordan and Pippen. Because if you did, this conversation is over. Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq were/are superstars. Gasol is a second option on a team at best. Pleasse tell me what Gasol has done in the league to warrant you referring to him as a superstar?
Dirk Nowitski is a superstar. He can carry a team. Gasol needs to be carried. You can build a team around dirk. You cant around Gasol.
Gasol was soft, but still no dud
And the Laker’s wouldn’t have made the Finals if Gasol wasn’t on there team nor would they have won it the following year if he wasn’t. I never compared Jordan and Pippen to anyone, so keep it moving. And Dirk carried his team? The same Dirk that was MVP, had the best team record in the West, AND lost to the number 8th seed? The same Dirk that got outplayed by the Heats the 1st time they met in the Finals? This year the Mavs won because they had the depth the Heats didnt have. The Mavericks finally won it all because there were 4-5 players that played outstanding, against the Heats Big 3. Please dont get carried away by ONE season, and if your going to tell me how great a player is, use his career and not just one season. But if you want, I can pull up any data to shoot down any of your opinions i disagree with.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
What are you talking about? I never said Dirk was a great player because one season...
Dirk is a great player because of his career. He has carried his team for years. And finally he got them to the ring. And let’s not talk about how he made Gasol look stupid getting there. Dirk was a great player before this year. As you said, he is a former MVP. He got his team to the finals before. He has been to the WCF several times. What has Gasol done before riding Kobe’s back? Nothing. Now go find data to shoot down that argument. I’m done with this topic…
Lot of bull deuce between the two of you.
Kobe is not a top 5 player anymore, that much is obvious.
As for his reign coming to an end, c’mon son, he was the best to 3rd best in the league for years and won a ton.
Gasol a nobody before the Lakers or soft even?
Hell no!
He was considered one of the absolutw top bigs in the league before Kobe, a touch soft sure, but that label actually started after his first season with the Lakers, but was shed for E seasons after.
Lakers team to beat in the West that season pre-Gasol?
Absotruthfully not! Not even close.
Kobe is the 10th best player in league history to me as it stands right now and has nowhere to go but up and I hate Kobe with a passion so it sort of pains me to say that.
Maybe VC or Tmac or even A.I. to name a few, even Ray Allen would have been considered that if they were gifted Shaq, Phil Jackson and the Lakers, but that’s revisionists history and even if true to an extent, none of these guys had Kobe’s drive nor work ethic.
A lot of other 2 guards/wings could have done what Kobe did with Shaq/Pau?
Nah, but there were some that woukld have been similar, ESPECIALLY with Shaq.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I don't get what Shameer is talking about
.
by Anthony Perez on Oct 20, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I just dislike Kobe I guess lol
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
Kobe isnt my favorite player
but you are right ESPN put Chris Paul at 4 and kobe at 7. LOL!!!!!
Best tweet from kobe’s #7 page is:
#espn put Kobe at 7? Omg what are they doing? Please don’t shake the lion from the tree smh!!!
From our own Rookie Marshon Brooks.
Clearly he agrees with you too.
Official Member of the "DIDN'T WANT TO TRADE DERRICK FAVORS, BUT HAPPY WE GOT D. WILLIAMS" Movement
by SIC One on Oct 20, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We'll see how far he "Leads" his team next season.....whenever it starts.
"Most people on this board are like a broken clock, Only right two times a day"
by Shameer1016 on Oct 20, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
100% healthy or 100% Kobe
Kobe, even healthy doesn’t seem to be the same player he once was. Maybe it is the injuries.. but maybe those are also part of his game now. He’s got ALOT of miles on his body.
by Jack Handy Jr on Oct 20, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
He's a more skilled player but a lot of his athleticism and durability has vanished.
He’s still an amazing player, but no one beats Father Time.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
This is an interesting way to look at things. Clearly the Nets were one of the weakest teams in the league. Our top five consists of two players that are legitimate starters and 3 others that are at the end of the bench on a good team – and one of the 5 was only there for a few weeks! We need to seriously upgrade this roster at 3 positions. Everyone screaming about Outlaw is really just a way to overlook the larger issue: we have a bad team. We were making choices from a position of weakness and hoping mediocre players would turn good. Hopefully, now we have strength and will fill the roster with real players at PF, SF, and SG. Hump at 154 is not good enough and will probably be one of those over payed players.
by oman8 on Oct 20, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
underpaid??
i dont get how these guys r underpaid if their still on their rookie contracts..
comon.. they gota fix it.. everyone knows they r underpaid..
make some bold statements..
Couldn't agree more.
How about we look at the Jarred Dudley’s, Dorell Wright’s, Paul Millsap’s, LaMarcus Aldridge’s and Danny Granger’s of the league to name a few.
by vincecarter4pres on Oct 20, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn but what happened to Troyy Murphy lol
Its like he got here and lost all of his skills, I know about the injuries but they shouldn’t linger that long.
"We're not there yet, but we're going somewhere," Johnson said. "And we're going to Brooklyn. We're not going to contract. We're going to Brooklyn."
Yeah.. this was a poorly thought out list
Players on rookies contracts should not be on there.
Michael Redd should have made $3.7m last year?!
Why? He didn’t play a single game.
Oh man
But Coon also reports that the Nets are the “team that got the least for their buck”
That line will be used against Billy King on this forum for months to come…
One clear fact
the list tells you is that contracts have been too long. Most of those guys are guys who were once all-stars or close to it but now are in the last year or two of multiyear contracts, over 30, and most of theh have had injuries. Solution is have shorter contracts.

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