Moving and Matching 'Melo - A Guide
by Net Income on Sep 6, 2010 11:23 PM EDT
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PrintCBS Sports' Royce Young offers up the complete 'Melo Trade Primer: what he wants, odds on when Denver will deal him and who's likely to make the best offer. It's speculation but Young thinks it's likely Carmelo Anthony gets moved in the next three weeks, and argues either the Rockets and Nets will land him.
Young believes that leverage is increasingly on Anthony's side with every passing day, and there's a danger that unless he is dealt soon, the Nuggets are less likely to come away with a good return.
As for the Nets, Young writes what others have...ad infinitum. "Mikhail Prokhorov has a stupid amount of money and toys that could entice Anthony. The Nets have a new arena coming, new ownership and potentially even a new name on the way... The Nets have the necessary assets to reel in the Nuggets. Brook Lopez is probably out of the question, but there's Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, Terrence Williams and Troy Murphy."
- Pop Quiz: When does Carmelo Anthony get moved? - Royce Young - CBS Sports
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Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, Terrence Williams and Troy Murphy > Carmelo Anthony
Is the open practice soon? I want to go watch anthony morrow put on a 3 pt show for the fans.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
by Andy. on Sep 6, 2010 11:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah...no.
Can’t say that for sure.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
so much BS out there
But I do love the picture of Melo in a tux.
by Net Income on Sep 6, 2010 11:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
TWill + James + Hump + Cash + 2 first round picks for Melo
and this is all we can give.
Harris / Farmar
Morrow / —
Anthony / Outlaw
Murphy / Favors
Lopez / Petro
what is Houston's offer?
Scola? Battier? The Knicks’ draft picks?
If that’s the deal Denver would take over being offered young, cheap talent like Williams, James, and a slew of picks, more power to them.
Scola’s contract also won’t get them any cap room. And it’s funny that I never see in any proposed Houston deal none of their better players are being offered, whereas we’re supposed to just give them Lopez + Favors and 3 1st rd picks.
I could care less at this point whether we get Anthony or not. If the price is ridiculous, don’t do it.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
In fact we can still win with the big four.
by Jarkid Shen on Sep 7, 2010 12:21 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
T-Will being featured in ads now? awesome
Moving up in the world, one step at a time
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I like our chances in getting Carmelo
But i rather keep the team than giving away two promising players.. (Favor, Williams)
The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..
still think its Houston
And I think it will be done in three weeks.
by Net Income on Sep 7, 2010 12:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i really can't see what exactly denver would want from houston
if denver takes kevin martin that would be a mistake for them…u can’t rebuild a team around him or use him as a piece….
he’s in the mold of jim jackson, glenn robinson or JR rider…u can’t win with them.
with that said, i don’t think denver gets anything in 3 weeks
i think denver trades anthony for exceptions and picks… and i think it’ll be the nets…
don’t even have to worry about twill and favors.. they’re not going anywhere
its not Houston. i can't imagine Melo & wife wanting to be in Houston
i’ll tell you what, if it ends up being Houston, i’ll never post on Netsdaily again.
no not really
i think denver would want cap space or picks rather than Kevin Martin or Twill.
I also think denver trades billups for picks…
Nets only have about $4m exception
any trade with Denver will have to include some Nets players with sizeable contract (Devin Harris or Troy Murphy), or wait until Dec 15 for Travis Outlaw.
We have a great core whats wrong if we don't get Melo??
The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..
The Nuggets may want Houston, but you are right, Melo & LaLa won't. Just because Melo threw out the Houston name, supposedly, doesn't mean he can't change his mind.
And I doubt Melo would want to be under Donald Sterling’s control for the next 4 years, nor to be the 2nd show at the Staples Center, always losing out to Kobe.
And I don’t see why the Knicks are even on the list, except for the 1/25 chance Nuggets play out the season, but he becomes a free agent. Even if the Knicks were to offer Randoph, Gallinari and Felton (which I doubt they would), they still don’t have any 1st round draft picks to offer. Nuggets aren’t going to take Curry from Knicks.
Whats their offfer?
I know you mentioned Jeffries Hill and two picks (one of which is the right to swap) in the past. That doesn’t seem like the salaries would match up though or be better than anything we offer. So surely something else would be needed? Brooks?
MAYBE MARTIN
I know for sure the Rockets would give what I mentioned… but if the Nugs are pushy, im sure they could get Daryl Morey to trade K Mart… but that could be a good or bad thing.. The rockets are really High on K Mart but thats because he fits with the rockets play style. And Jefferies is getting paid 8.5 mill per year and Battier is getting 8.5 also, so the two expiring contracts together are worth about 17 million.. I wana say Jordan Hill is making 3 mill, so when Melo signs his 3 yr 65 million dollar contract before being traded (sign and trade) that breaks down to the rockets needing to offer 21.6 mill in contracts. 17 mill plus 3 mill equals 20 mill BUT, the rockets have a 7 million dollar trade exception from trading away Trevor Ariza for Coutney Lee… So the rockets could technically trade away only 13 mill worth of players and get Melo. Daryl Morey has set this up like a Genius!!! he’s prepared to pull the trigger on a deal that brings in Melo or any other unhappy Superstar, lol. The only question is WHEN… not IF ;)
Very very doubtful
I don’t think he wants to play in Houston. That would be shocking to me. I think he wants to play for the Knicks, and maybe we’re the lesser evil of being in the NY area.
What is Houston offering?
Because everything that I’ve read pales in comparison to the alleged price that the Nets will have to pay to get Anthony.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Whatever Houston offers is better than what NJ offers in terms of BEING ABLE TO WIN AFTER THE TRADE
NJ is trying to offer Troy Murphy and and Derrick Favors…
For one… there is no way that that totals to the 21.6 Million needed to make the numbers work..
Two, that is not equal value… Sure Derrick Favors is a young talent, and has a bright future and Troy Murphy is a nice addition. Great big man… but the Nuggets dont gain any money to rebuild on, and do not get draft picks AND they need small Forwards and guard, they have plenty of big men… the nuggets are not making a Deal with NJ UNLESS THEY OFFER DEVIN HARRIS OR BROOK LOPEZ
Even if they somehow get the money to work… The nets now have what?… Yi Jianlian starting at the PF and a worthless bench? They are still not contenders and if they offer Devin Harris or Brook Lopez (which is what they will have to do…) wasnt playing with those two the reason Melo would even consider playing there… ?
C’ Mon, lets be realistic…
The Nets are better of sticking with their current roster and winning 23 games per season, then depending on high draft picks each year to rebuild with…
No Offense… but its just more reasonable in EVERY WAY for Melo to go to Houston…
Houston can make the trade happen AND still be left with tons of talent afterwards…
Whew, you TX people sho are smaht
Did you really just make 4 totally incorrect statements in a row?
FYI, Im a IT Database manager so I know more about computers than ANY of YALL, lol… I also know more about basketball, and apparently Geography too! lol.
The nets now have what?… Yi Jianlian starting at the PF
there is no way that that totals to the 21.6 Million needed to make the numbers work
Troy Murphy is a nice addition. Great big man… but the Nuggets dont gain any money to rebuild on, and do not get draft picks
Those would be 4 TRUE statements...
If your going to say im incorrect, prove it, lol. how pointless is it to just say “these statements are not true” and then say nothing else… WOW…
no it's not and i am not a nets fan
harris and lopez should be completly restricted in a trade to denver…and even then they could make a very good offer, leaving them with a good team…it’s the east for god sake
Favors* Sorry for the typo.
The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..
What the author doesn't realize (and he wouldn't have a story if he did) is that Melo controls the timing, not Denver.
All Melo has to say is that he wants to see how things look after the start of the season. Denver would feel that they still have a chance in that scenario. Unless Melo gets injured, his value wouldn’t change that much as the early season progresses. If anything, if he plays well to start the season, his value only goes up.
All sides involved would benefit from a delay, because they would better be able to evaluate the talent.
Suppose Melo chose Houston, but Yao fractures his foot again in November? What are the odds that Yao will be healthy for 3-4 years? Without Yao, Houston’s playoff chances will fall sharply.
And what would Melo tell his wife if he chose Houston? The airport is very good? I am convinced that LaLa would have a lot to do with the decision, and her job is in New York.
No, the market is NOT broader before the season. Once again, the author is thinking from the Management point of view, not Melo. They can’t trade Melo in a S&T without his approval. He isn’t going to the Wolves. Melo is better off evaluating the teams out there, once the season begins. Then he can best prevent the team he is going to from giving up too much talent.
And also, not mentioned, is that more players become available for trade after Dec. 15. That is to everyone’s advantage.
I’ll stick with Christmas as the time when all sides agree upon a trade, but there is still a 20% chance he stays to play for Coach Karl.
Melo has NEVER said he wants to be traded now. That was a media creation, similar to the CP3 situation. Melo was on his honeymoon or in China when much of this was going on.
It all started when the New York media got wind of something said at Melo’s wedding about getting together with CP3 and Amare. CP3 is now out of the picture, so that scenario isn’t going to happen.
Some of Melo’s associates may be spreading the word, but when push comes to shove, Melo will realize that its not in his best interest to rush matters.
i would think rush is exactly what melo wants
he wants to get his new contract signed and out onto a new team ASAP
i think carmelo already evaluated talents of the other teams
he’s a pro basketball player..evaluating talent is done at first glance
Noone can do that this early. Noone, not to mention that the team he is going to could be destroyed as a result of his trade.
Yao can fracture his foot again in November and be forced to retire.
Melo was dreaming of CP3 coming to Knicks, but obviously his initial belief was wrong.
If Melo begins getting good advice, and he wants to go to Nets, he will be told that by waiting to Dec. 15, the Nets can trade Outlaw+ his friend Hump, leaving the team in contention by holding onto Harris, Lopez and Murphy. If Melo wants to win, he will start considering those sort of things.
+1 this is the rational Nets fan thinking
come Dec 15, if Nets shows about .500 record, and with Outlaw available, then Nets will be very appealing to Melo. Denver mgmt may get desperate then, and Melo could force a trade to the Nets for Outlaw/Hump/Picks. It wouldn’t even need to be a S/T. Nets could extend Melo after the trade.
Also keep in mind, Yao could call it a career, leaving Houston quite unappealing.
and even if he doesn't retire...
does yao ming inspire confidence any more? that huge body just wreaks havoc on his knees, ankles and feet. another micro-fracture is right around the corner with this guy.
extend Melo after the trade?
There’s no trade happening unless Melo extends first. The Nets aren’t stupid enough to trade anything for someone that can go to the Knicks next summer. Words and promises mean nothing
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. However, it might be possible to do a less expensive 4 year extension, rather than the 65 million on the table now.
The new team could dictate the terms – maybe 4 years at 70 million, if he really wanted to come to Nets.
Yes, Melo's initial reaction might have been that if he is going to be traded, he would prefer to get it over with and be set with his new team at the beginning of the season.
However, after further thought, he will be realizing it is best to “choose wisely” and also not screw over the Nuggets fans.
That's not correct
There were many sources that said Carmelo (probably via his agent) said he no longer wants to play for Denver, and that the meeting in Baltimore got testy.
Woj is usually spot on about these things, and it was very clear that Anthony wanted to move on.
Whether he can be convinced to stay (a la Bryant a few years ago) is the question.
Why haven't we heard anything since? Maybe Nuggets were trying to push him to sign now, via his agent, or else!
Nuggets need to be more laid back and give Melo some more time – Time enough for Melo to request a trade to Nets on Dec. 15 (LOL).
Melo would be stupid to say publically to Denver that he wants out now. He would be hated by Denver fans if he did that.
It would be much wiser for Melo to say that he will give Nuggets a chance, while privately having all sides keep open trade options.
If Nuggets start out season 5 and 15 (which is very possible), but Melo is playing well, then Nuggets could prepare for a rebuilding trade.
And Melo could leave without becoming an Evil Villain like LeBron is now (or his Lapdog sidekick Bosh).
It’s wise for both sides to wait until December, but the Media will continue to try to keep everyone thinking that a trade will be coming shortly.
Was JKidd fined for requesting to be traded after faking a migraine?
I believe the Nets are the ones who would be fined, if they spoke with Melo directly, without Nuggets permission.
Be patient.
Billy King isn’t going to give up the kitchen sink to land Melo.
His trade demand was not done in public, it was behind closed doors
Behaving like a jackass, however, was done in public.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
bottom line
nets are just fine the way they are. I think Billy, Avery & the crew know this.
If melo becomes available for no more than Murphy, TWIll, Hump, picks, I do it. If not, we’ll be just fine.
by corky_romano4life on Sep 7, 2010 2:01 AM EDT reply actions
this
No reason to jump out of windows here.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Throw in Sean May too
I’m feeling generous
"A little boy went out to play. When he opened his door, he saw the world. As he passed through the doorway, he caused a reflection. Evil was born. Evil was born, and followed the boy."
i know its been said before but might as well make it Melo’s daily :D
by atec on Sep 7, 2010 3:53 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Seriously...
I know news is slow in the summer, but it’s been the same 300+ comment threads every day for the past 3 weeks. Melo isn’t worth it. The attention or the package we’d offer for his talents. I hope he takes the no state tax Houston package.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 8:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Melo is....
too Hollywood for my taste……We have players that will emerge as Stars and/or Superstars……And we are rebuilding…I want to keep our picks and maybe we can trade a couple of 1st rounders for a better draft pick next year or the year after……
Hollywood is what this team needs
Not sure why people don’t understand that. Players who WANT to play for the Nets changes the outlook among other players, fans, reporters, etc. This franchise needs a huge makeover from the perennial losers we have been nearly every year of the team’s history.
You bring in a superstar, and you are on national TV more. You have bigger crowd and players play up for that. You start putting together wins, highlights on Sportscenter, jerseys selling like mad house, and a winning basketball team – that’s what Prokhorov envisions.
That’s what he wants in Brooklyn.
Nets would have to give up Favors at this time to make that happen. However, I don't even think the Nets staff has a time-table or upper limit to Favors' future.
If the Nets staff develops a lower opinion of Favors than the fans currently have, then at that time, it might be a good idea.
Lets encourage a delay in the meantime.
In 3 weeks it will be ideal for the Nets to go in. They can dramitcally increase value while keeping incoming value relatively equal in Carmelo Anthony. the nuggets are making mistakes with Anthony and his calue will soon drop. A combo of murphy, James/TWill, 3 picks, and a filler, maybe 3 mil might get the job done for Melo and a filler
Some people should stop using the Prokhorov argument and stop pretending they know what’s going on thru his head. He and the basketball people who have worked for him before have already said Prokhorov lets his bball people make their decisions and that he doesnt try to have any influence those decisions. If he just wanted a big name, he would have ordered Nets management to just go out there and overpay for an Amare Stoudemire or someone similar.
It’s getting boring, really.
So you say stop pretending to know what's going on his head
And proceed to tell us what’s going on in his head?
I’m just telling you the way he acts when it comes to making bball decisions according to the basketball people who have worked for him.
I don't know it
the people who have worked for him do tho, and they say he lets them make their decision and that he does not influence them.
we shouldn't want melo half-way through the year...
or we can chalk 2010-2011 up as another “lost season.” this young team needs solidarity, and to have the roster be turned on its head halfway through the year will NOT provide solidarity. whatever we start the season with, we should stick to our guns and keep that group together.
I doubt that happens
Troy Murphy would be a pretty good trade piece at the deadline if we can improve ourselves in an area that becomes evident as the season goes on.
This team just isn’t good enough now to compete, so if we have the chance at getting someone decent, we do have that expiring piece to move.
i posted yesterday
that i don’t think this team can win over 35 games (which is still a huge improvement from last year).
i’m just more concerned with our young talent realizing their potential. rather than getting caught up in the mass exodus of super star talent from their respective teams.
right...
then the entire system needs to change. we’re supposed to have rookies and second-year guys make a seamless transition when one of the best players in the league joins the team? doubtful.
Are we winning a ring this year?
that doesnt matter we are looking in the future 3 years down the road.
In 3 years, Melo's 29 and the 3 year extension he comes with is up.
He’ll be looking for another 3 years at max money even though he’ll be pushing 30. If we’re 3 years from a ring like you say, getting Melo at the cost of our young guys and picks is a moot point if we’re gonna have a contract dispute with him 3 years from now anyway.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 10:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Such pessimism
What if in 3 years we’re in the NBA Finals and Melo is the MVP? What if our young guys developed amazingly while the players we traded were busts, and the draft picks weren’t worth anything in a weak draft?
What if Brooklyn is selling out and Melo is the most coveted NY athelete and all free agents want to play for us?
An extreme view (like yours), but the “what if’s” just aren’t worth it.
What if Melo commits YET ANOTHER crime will a Net?
What if Melo gets injured?
What if he follows the paths of guys his game is similar to and ends up like Allen Iverson, Tracy Magrady or Vince Carter?
What if Melo gets more reliant on his sub-par jumper over the next 3 years, like previous rim attackers?
What if we trade Damion James for Melo and he turns into the star people believe he’s gonna be?
Same what if for TWill and Favors?
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 10:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What if I attempt to sneeze with my eyes open, will my eyes pop out of my head?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Quite obviously?
I’m sorry, enlightened one, please… Explain what your point was to the simpletons. You posted some “what ifs”, I posted some “what ifs”. In the plainest terms, explain what your point was… And make it quite obvious.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 11:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Anthony won’t lead a team to the NBA Finals (let alone in the east with Miami’s big 3 out there) and be the MVP. He’s not a player of that caliber.
It’s a team effort though, as long as we have the proper parts around him I think that he’d at least give us a fighting chance with his abilities.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Thnk you!!!!
Ii dont even care if we get Mel, but these guys bashing him every second is getting sad. He can Def. be with out question the top scorer on a championship team.
Then why hasn't he been?
I can understand not making the Finals with the Lakers dominating the West. But he’s only been to the WCF once. He hasn’t done much more than other high scorers in the league like TMac and AI. If he couldn’t do it with Billups and KMart, how much more effective is he gonna be with Farmar and Lopez or Harris and Favors?
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 11:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Before Melo was in Denver you prob. didnt even know they were the Nuggets
Melo hasnt missed the Playoffs once. His Bigs are constanly injured. Kobe couldnt make it past the Suns befor Gasol arrived. If Kobe wasnt in the west he could have already been a finals MVP. a fully developed favors and brook will be lightyears ahead of anything hes had back there
Other than Odom (who had played the playoffs just ONCE before he joined Kobe the Lakers), LA’s other starters in 2005-06 and 06-07 were Smush Parker, Kwame Brown/Chris Mihm and Luke Walton/Brian Cook. (They got Bynum after the first year after Shaq left, but he played just 40 games and 7mpg during his rookie season, and 21mpg in his second year).
Give me Billups/Miller/Iverson + Smith + Martin + Nene + Camby over that crap any day of the week. Those are not very comparable situations. It’s a miracle Bryant made those Laker team to make the postseason. And, in fact, I recall the Lakers had the best record in the Western Conference a few weeks prior to the Gasol trade. Not to mention GASOL HADN’T WON A MISERABLE PLAYOFFS GAME BEFORE HE JOINED KOBE BRYANT.
Bryant has 5 rings and is a 2 time NBA finals MVP. Try to take as many credit as you want away from him, you can’t reduce it to what you are trtrying to to make excuses for Anthony.
Um, nobody is saying Melo is Bryant
Few players in NBA history are as good as Bryant. Jordan is one of them.
But there is no question Carmelo could be the scorer on a championship team. To discount all the talent in the west is unbelievably naive.
Some one is getting excited
Kobe. One of my fav players to ever watch. ade it nowhere with out Gasol and O’Neal. Melo had great regularseason numbers too, so dont use bryant had the best record in the league before gasol because you wouldnt use that credit Melo for that
so what proves your statement then? If you say Bryant hasn’t won a ring without Shaq or Gasol, I can also say Gasol hasn’t won a playoff game without Bryant. Shaq hasn’t won a ring without Bryant or Wade.
see where I’m going?
yeah
Billups/Miller/Iverson, Smith, Camby, Nene, Martin… you’re right, those were terrible teams. Almost as bad as Smush Parker/Chucky Atkins, Luke Walton, Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom.
Iverson?
Do you not understand Denver has been pleagued with injuries ?
When not injured they gave LA a scare. 26 year old Kobe and Billups wins a Championship? nah didnt think so.stop hating on Melo its wack already hes a good player and if we dont have to give up much he will be good for our team
Yes, Iverson.
What’s wrong?
Here are his stats with the Nuggets:
- 06/07: 24.8ppg, .454 FG, 7.2 apg.
- 07/08: 26.4 ppg, .458 FG, 7.1 apg.
First off, please notice how Iverson had good shooting percentages while in the Nuggets, much better than those he had during the most part of the rest of his career.
The Nuggets dumped him at the right time and for the right player, but, during those years, Iverson was as talented a player as ‘Melo, if not more. One could argue Iverson was Denver’s best player those two season. I think so. You laughed yesterday at one comment because someone compared Anthony to Iverson. I see nothing funny about it.
Why hasn't he been?
Kobe couldn’t get out of the first round without Shaq or Pau Gasol. It’s a matter of having the right pieces. Having a player like Carmelo makes it easier to find big time players who Also want to play for your team. Carmelo can be the #1 guy with the right team built around him.
by TheMann2 on Sep 7, 2010 12:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
also
Being the #1 guy can only get you so far if the other pieces around you aren’t pulling their weight.
If Pau Gasol, Odom, and Artest did not step up in Game 7 of the Finals the Lakers would have lost, since Bryant was having a horrible game offensively(even though he dominated on the boards). It all depends on who you have with you as well. Billups looked like he was worn out last season by the time they got into the playoffs.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Ron Artest won LA game 7, but, even if he was having a rough night, Bryant score like 10 points in the final quarter, most of them from the FT line, when a scorer is not having a good night, he finds other ways to get the job done, and Kobe did that to an extent in the 4th quarter of that game, even if he was having a terrible game until then.
yup
no argument here.
Gasol and Odom were balling that night though. It was a great effort all around even from Bryant whose shot was broken that night, yet he attacked on the defensive end and also cleaned the glass like a beast, how many boards did he have that game 15??
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Jason Kidd couldn’t get it done with Richard Jefferson and K-Mart, but that doesn’t take anything away from him.
I think we’re all looking into that stuff a bit too much. A different situation and system may yield different results. I’m not sold on giving up our core players for him because I view Anthony as an elite level scorer but not much else in terms of overall production, but I do believe that having him as a scoring option from the wing alongside Lopez, an improved Favors, and Devin Harris could stand a chance in the top heavy east. I never really viewed the Denver rosters that he had to be great in the first place.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
Gotta remember that K-Mart was injury riddled the last few years, Nene was out with cancer, Denver never had a legit PG until Billups came there, the talent IMO was far from complimentary.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats you assumption
we would of been in the same situation with Lebron. You only suggest this because u hate melo. Im not saying we will win a championship in 3 years but we will be Elite if our bigs develope and that will attract stars. People want to play in LA because they win. If we win Melo will stay put
It's not a hate thing...
I hated LeBron before “The Decision”, but I would’ve loved to sign him AS A FREE AGENT because along with the 25+ ppg, he’s capable of triple doubles pretty much whenever he wants. Melo’s 3 APG doesn’t say the same about him.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 11:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No it is obviously a hate thing. you dislike the guy
and like i said before i can careless if we get him buut to say he would make the Nets unable to win a championship is just wrong. like dolla said before its who u put around him
Never said he would make us unable to get a championship.
And with a new CBA, Brook probably getting maxed out in a couple of years, and Outlaw’s contract being immovable if he’s only getting 10 MPG behind Melo, how do you expect us to build talent around him if we’re about to give up our draft picks and young talent?
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 12:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
wrong?
stop saying everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. that’s just your opinion and nothing else.
Not hate...
So you’re saying if Kobe Bryant was available you wouldn’t attempt to get him? Kobe made his name as a scorer and nothing else. He’s not known for sharing the ball or attempting to make guys better either. He just has the right pieces around him.
by TheMann2 on Sep 7, 2010 12:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
wait, what?
Kobe made his name as a scorer and nothing else. He’s not known for sharing the ball or attempting to make guys better either.
Check Kobe’s rebounds and assist numbers, he brings to the table a lot more than just an outstanding scoring ability.
Kobe Bryant is a complete player, and is probably the most skilled player in basketball currently.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If we have one of the best players in the league join the team
I’ll worry about the implications on rookies and second-year players later.
fair enough...
i still believe that this team is going to have to work back from last year. calling a team “new” doesn’t negate the losing culture that has been festering for the last few years.
2 players left over
Looks like a new team to me. 12 Wins are out the window (we also have a winning coach)
Unproven Fine
But doesnt mean they have a loser mentality like you say. This is not the 12 win team far from it
yeah
It would take a horrible rash of injuries for this team to come even close to the garbage that we watched last year.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
EVERYTHING is currently unproven
which is what makes all this a fascinating guessing game
larry brown...
was a GREAT coach in detroit. shouldn’t the bobcats be awesome all of the sudden with that logic?
ok and?....
We have a winning coach with a winning mentality and a new team. That 12 win season is out the window
his contract kept us where we were
and he’s not that good. seriously. talk about a pure scorer with little to offer in terms of defense and assists? anyone who complains that carmelo is lacking in these areas and was a VC fan are out of their minds.
Carter showed very good passing abilities during his Nets year, cerainly much better than Anthony’s. While in his prime, he was a more complete player than Anthony.
has carmelo even reached his "prime" yet?
i think the high point of vince’s career was the 2000 or 2001 slam dunk contest that feature him defying the laws of physics
his contract?
I don’t understand your point here…his contract did not handicap us. The team was at the end of it’s run as currently constructed, and we moved the contract for young talent and expirings.
Vince was never anything more than an average defender, but saying he had little to offer is false. The guy was putting up 20+ppg 5rpg nearly 5apg during his time with us.
This roster won 12 wins last season without Vince Carter. That’s about a 22 win drop off from the year before that. That says it all.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
now we're off on a tangent
i started by talking about coaches, and my hatred of vince took over.
the point is this: having a coach with a winning record does not necessarily translate a 12-70 team into a perennial playoffs threat.
um, what?
How did Vince Carter ruin this team?
Carter was not perfect but he wasn’t a slouch either and frankly he conducted himself like a class act the entire time, he never threw anyone under the bus and even after Kidd forced his way out of here like a child Carter remained upbeat and actually embraced the role of mentor the season afterwards, where he was then rewarded by the Nets brass by being traded to his home, Orlando, where he can possibly end his career winning a title. How did Carter ruin this team?
No one said Carter was ruining anything in 2004-05 when he and Kidd carried a roster full of garbage on one of the better late season runs that the Nets have had in franchise history to make the playoffs. VC also played injured and did not make excuses or complain. The last person that should be getting dogged out on here is Vince Carter, sorrt.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
his scoring decreased
every year he was on the nets… his assists barely rose, and rebounds stayed the same. he was already on his way down.
yeah, because he was on the tail end of his prime
But let me tell you, averaging numbers in the 20 5 5 range is not a walk in the park. The dude was playing all star caliber basketball during his time here, it’s not his fault that the roster was trash or the coach was in over his head.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't know why anyone is defending this guy.
what has he done for us? ever? the guys that we acquired for him aren’t around… its not like we’re still riding the waves of a championship that he brought us.
true.
and also true, i really, really don’t like this guy. but its besides the point.
the point is this: having a coach with a winning record does not necessarily translate a 12-70 team into a perennial playoffs threat.
we're too ready to say...
everything’s is new, so no matter what, everything is also better.
i’m not sold yet. questionable moves have left me jaded. i need proof. i need to see them play.
I'm defending him....
….because I think that some of your criticisms of him are off base.
Saying that he “ruined the team”? I wouldn’t go that far. If anything, he kept the team above water before the ship sank
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Larry Brown
Actually didn’t the Bobcats improve and make the playoffs last season…ahead of CHRIS BOSH and the Raptors?
by TheMann2 on Sep 7, 2010 12:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why is why I'm ok with giving up on them
Before the season starts, if it means we get a proven player like Carmelo.
Proven how?
What has he won? Who has he- without a well respected, championship PG- led to the Finals? He’s a bigger Iverson. High shooting, high points, low assists. Even lower ring count. Stop praising him like he’s a basketball God. He’s AI. He’s TMac. That’s it. That tier of guys who put up big point totals and think they’re better players than they are.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 11:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cool contribution, bro.
But please, be constructive and tell me why guys like you and eLone put this guy in the same category as Kobe and Wade and not with the likes of AI and TMac in their primes?
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 11:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Guys like me never put him in that cat.
im just not a hater and understand the paul pierces of the world can win Championships too not just Kobe’s and Lebrons
Paul Pierce's team wasn't even a playoff contender...
Before Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett came along. And Carmelo wasn’t able to do it with Chauncey Billups and KMart. Not being a hater, I just don’t think he’s worth the packages some of you are willing to give up for him.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Sep 7, 2010 12:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok...
What puts Kobe and Wade in such a special category? Neither of them got out of the first round without Shaq, Kobe also didn’t get out of the first round without Pau Gasol. Both were known for High points, low assists, High volumes of shots and Wade played ZERO defense when the heat won the title in 2006. He didn’t start playing D until 2008. So basically Carmelo IS on the same level as those guys
by TheMann2 on Sep 7, 2010 12:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm sorry WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
Both were known for High points, low assists
You’re joking right? Just go check Kobe and Wade’s assists number please.
Dwade is a assist man
if you watch kobe you know hes not an assist man. His Bigs give him alot of those numbers
the only year Wade averaged less than 6.5 apg was his rookie season. He has even had 7.5 apg seasons.
as for Bryant, it’s not his bigs who give him a lot of those numbers.
In 2004-05, when LA’s big men rotation was Mihm/Odom/Brian Cook, Bryant averaged a career high 6 apg.
I go by what i see
to me Kobe is not a assist man. The year he averaged 35 a game. and theyb played nash in the playoffs and he was dishing out 7 a game everyone was saying that was a breakthrough because he simply didnt pass the ball before that. Not saying he doesnt have the ablity. He just doesnt do it often, and watch the finals and tell me each game 2 of his assist a game werent to Gasol ?
hmmm
What puts Kobe and Wade in such a special category?
maybe the fact they proved they can lead their teams to a championship? the rings? the finals MVP?
also, saying Wade played zero defense is so off base it’s not even funny.
you have people here who tries to downplay what Bryant and Wade have done while making excuses for Anthony. Give me a break.
also following your logic one could argue a guy like Joe Johnson is on the same level as Bryant and Wade.
I don't want..
this group broken up before they get a chance to play together..
by BubbaMcBubba on Sep 7, 2010 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Play together?
Do you mean we’re going to actually play some games?
I thought we were just going to sign and trade players from now on.
Nobody mentioned playing games!
Exactly, and I predict if the team plays some games together, the value of 3-5 players will go up considerably and thus would impact the trade requirements for Melo.
I guess I have more faith in the current players than does eLonepb, who would be willing to give up anyone, including Lopez, and ASAP.
on ESPN radio yesterday...
i forget who it was that said it, but essentially, the Nets are in the best position to acquire Melo just based on the draft pick situation. with our trade bait that is available also, i would consider that a lock.
now the question; is it still the best basketball move for the franchise?
Absolutely, without question
If you can get him without giving up Harris, Lopez, and Favors.
If you have to give up Favors, then it depends on what Favors develops into over the next few years.
Mostly agree with eLonepb
Agree you don’t move Lopez, or Harris and Favors but would not be opposed to moving Harris or Favors, depending on what else we include and get back. If we move Harris we need a PG from somewhere.
not if it costs Favors, IMO
You want Melo to play with a solid frontcourt, not one with holes in it.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Sep 7, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
i don't think favors is starting either way... at least not for the beginning of the season
so melo WILL have a solid supporting cast either way, only to improve if favors can stick around
Billy King Legacy Moment
If Melo goes anywhere outside of Denver in the next year, whatever Billy King does, even if he does nothing (which may be the best thing to do), this will define Billy King’s legacy as a Nets GM.
I haven't seen this trade combination mentioned...
Maybe the Nuggets would want both Harris + Murphy, James and/or draft picks…
They could keep or trade Harris, deal Murphy’s expiring contract and would have a young, talented, hard playing SF and plenty of cap space to rebuild.
Would you guys go for that?
I don't think there is evidence Nuggets ever requested Harris. They like Lawson.
Nets wouldn’t trade Harris without requesting Lawson back, so I doubt he gets moved.
It was the writers who threw Harris’ name in the mix after hearing that Nuggets were asking for the World in a trade.
I think Harris’ name is also being mentioned because it makes the salary work out simply. Swapping Outlaw with Harris (on Dec. 15) makes more sense. Outlaw’s value will rise if he is given a chance in November, with the Nets.
What happens if both Outlaw and James play very well?
Denver would be smart to trade Anthony ASAP. Unless they can get Carmelo to agree to stay, his value will go down the longer Denver waits. Nets can’t trade Favors unless Popeye and Mitchell saw something lacking in Favors, when working with him this summer, that they think will keep him from being a big time player. I think the Nets would trade Harris for Melo plus parts if that could get the deal done, without getting a PG (Lawson) in return.
I don't think Nuggets would do that deal, unless they could move Harris for someone they want, in a 3 team trade.
But Avery wouldn’t be happy to have only Farmar and TWill at PG. Maybe Earl Watson would be signed in that case.
And whether Melo’s value drops now or later on is more dependent on what Melo demands than on other factors.
29 teams could be making offers for Melo. Has does his value drop? Sure each side would like to get over with this, in case for example that Melo gets injured, but this is mostly a Media thing about his value going down.
And if Melo gets injured (not too serious), then he would be more likely to re-sign with Nuggets.
The longer Denver waits...
The closer Melo is to joining the Knicks. And Melo will get his money one way or the other, especially knowing how Dolan tosses the big bucks around. Denver will get nothing in return.
I'm convinced now... Lets trade both Lopez and Favors pronto.. Denver might change their mind!
How you holding up eLonepb (Lone Ranger)? You sure had you hands full last Friday and handled yourself very well, in my humble opinion.
The point is
Carmelo is one of the best players in the NBA at scoring, something we failed to do more than the other team 70 times last year.
And that team is gone, but we still don’t have a powerhouse scorer, and that’s why giving up someone like Favors could be possible when you can get a player like Melo.
carmelo is like a bigger, less-polished paul pierce
lethal first step, excellent at creating space to get his shots, and can really murder an under-sized defender.
He's much better than Paul Pierce
Again, my opinion though. And it would seem the same opinion of the writer in Dime.
yeah they hyped him up a little bit...
but paul pierce in his prime was a warrior. i thinking that would be an extremely entertaining matchup to watch.
paul pierce 5 or 6 years ago versus carmelo right now. epic.
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