NetsDaily Off-Season Report #17
It's all about the front office this week. The news didn't get the headlines free agency did, but the "realignment" of the scouting department, coming right after the last coaching hires, signaled that the Nets' days of cutting costs are over. We look at what it means and what's to come. We also examine what the signing of Sean May portends; whether the Nets blew it with Yi Jianlian--David Thorpe thinks so; whether the Nets have trademarked any other name; the possibility of a Nets seven-footer playing in Turkey and the virtues of a welcome back mural for Isiah Thomas.
Every Sunday, we’ll be updating the Nets’ off-season with bits and pieces of information, gossip, etc. to help take the edge off missing the playoffs, relying on the Nets’ beat reporters and others who have slipped interesting stuff into larger stories and blogs...not to mention our own reporting.
It's All Gone..or Is It?
It's still hard getting used to the idea that the Nets have had such a complete turnover since May. Bruce Ratner is out, Mikhail Prokhorov is in; Rod Thorn and Kiki Vandeweghe are out, Billy King and Avery Johnson are in; Nets are out of the IZOD, into the The Rock...and who knows what they will be called once they're in Brooklyn.
But interestingly, with all that turnover, there has been very little blood spilled. Vandeweghe was let go unceremoniously and a couple of others in the front office were replaced, but overall, people who are valued have been retained and in some cases promoted.
Bobby Marks is now assistant GM. Tom Barrise is back on the coaching sidelines after working with Thorn on the draft. He rejoins John Loyer, who weathered last year's craziness with considerable aplomb. Popeye Jones may have replaced Roy Rogers as big man coach--head coach's perogative--but Rogers' appreciable talents were not lost. He's now the team's advance scout, a job that was eliminated last season. Gregg Polinsky and his team of respected college scouts--Jordan Cohn, Maury Hanks and Khalid Green--are back. All of them had contracts that expired back in June. Tim Walsh has been given more responsibility.
Prokhorov and his top aide, Dmitry Razumov, could have just found an NBA expert and told him to slash and burn. There would have been little complaint. There was a lot of blame to go around for last year's debacle. Instead, they have done what they have said they would: find the right people, provide them with resources and stepped aside.
Six Assistant Coaches, Eight Scouts and a Whole Lot of Money
In that same vein... The Nets aren't spending a lot of money on player contracts this summer after failing to land any of the big free agents. But they are spending a lot of money in the front office. In essence, the Nets have doubled what they had at the end of last season in terms of assistant coaches, scouts, video analysts and management support.
The most impressive moves have been in the scouting department. The Nets brought in two new scouts, moved Rogers to the vacant advance scouting job, and upgraded the international scouting position all while retaining the core whose work has led to the team's recent success in the draft. Lost in the news of that upgrade was a decision to hire an administrator back in East Rutherford to organize all their data. Little things like that count.
There are other jobs yet to be filled: an in-house rehab specialist; a director of player programs to help new players adjust to the pro game; and an executive assistant to work with the coaches. Beyond the new video and rehab equipment, at some point, the team will also unveil the home team locker room at the Prudential Center. Prokhorov has supervised that personally. Still unresolved: whether the Nets will hire their own stats guy or rely on the NBA and whether they still have interest in buying the Springfield Armor of the D-League. Nor have we heard whether a Russian hoops expert will be joining the Nets as an assistant GM, as widely reported months ago. (Was that part of Johnson's agenda when he visited Moscow on a working vacation?)
Yes, it must be noted that three of the scouts do have long-standing ties to King...Bob Ferry, Danko Cvjeticanin and Frank Zanin, smacking of either cronyism or loyalty, and yes, the Nets are saving money by hiring three coaches still under contract with their previous teams: Johnson, Sam Mitchell and Larry Krystkowiak, but those deals with the Mavericks, Raptors and Bucks end this season while their deals with the Nets extend out beyond this season. The bottom line is that cutting costs are out, investing in the future is in.
One front office type summed up all the activity buzzing around him by borrowing a line from the boss: "The Nets under new ownership are willing to provide the very best of the best for their new players and that even though we did not land a big fish, our front office will shape out to be one of the finest in the NBA. We will leave no stone unturned...We will not be taken advantage of."
Training Camp Signings, Part I
The Nets have 12 players with fully guaranteed deals, plus three with non-guaranteed (but some cash upfront) in Brian Zoubek, Ben Uzoh and now May.
So barring a trade or other signings between now and training camp, they still have five camp jobs to offer before September 24. In the past, that’s been a combination of undrafted players, vets without contracts and players, both Americans and international, who have spent time overseas. Expect the same this year, but maybe leaning more toward May types, what Vandeweghe calls "fallen angels".
This year, the Nets have several things to offer potential training camp signees: the "It's all New" package (owner, arena, coach, GM, youth, etc.) plus an all-expenses paid trip to China...if you can make that first cut.
Expect May to be typical of training camp invites: low risk, some reward. Why? The Nets want to retain between $14 and $15 million in cap space throughout the season so they can swoop in and scoop up a star at the deadline and have $18 million next summer. They are not likely to make any big moves, or for that matter, medium-sized moves that will jeopardize that strategy. They feel very comfortable with that.
As for May himself, he is back to his weight in college, actually a little below it, but the question remains can his knees--and his stamina--hold out long enough for him to make the team and then make a contribution. What's the best the Nets can hope for? A return to the form of his second year, when he seemed to be coming into his own. Since then, it's been mostly downhill. His last attempt at a comeback was the beginning of last season. He began the season as the Kings' starting center--a position he says he can play. That didn't last long. By November 8, he was back on the bench and didn't play 10 minutes in a game until late January when he had his best game of the season: 7 points and 11 rebounds in 15 minutes. In two games vs the Nets he had four points total.
The Nets, of course, have always thought highly of him, trying to move up to draft him in 2005, then trying to trade for him at least once. The day before the 2007 draft, the Charlotte Observer reported that the Nets offered their pick and Nachbar to the Bobcats for May, but Charlotte (thankfully) turned them down. According to the Observer, the Cats while unhappy with May’s conditioning and record of injuries, weren’t willing to "give him away".
Avery the Recruiter
We haven't heard Sean May talk about why he chose the Nets over the Jazz.. More than likely, it was the opportunity...the Jazz have Paul Milsap and Al Jefferson. But three of other four veteran free agents signed by the Nets have mentioned the key role Johnson played in their recruiting.
"It was a chance to be part of something special," Jordan Farmar said. "It was a lot of Avery Johnson — being able to play for a point guard, someone who will appreciate the little things I do. He’ll help me grow as a player in this league, (and that) was really closer to my decision."
I definitely didn’t get any calls until LeBron picked his spot," Travis Outlaw said, laughing. "But after that, I got a call from Avery, and I was excited about that because he’s a coach who’s turned a lot of players’ careers around."
"I think Coach believes in what I can do – what I’ve never really had the chance to show," Johan Petro said. "He put everything in my hands. Now it’s going to be my turn to just go out there and give whatever I have."
Speaking of the head coach, if you were wondering whether Avery met with Prokhorov on his family vacation to Moscow, the answer is yes, but only casually. It wasn't a working vacation. He didn't bring back any power forwards as souvenirs.
Did the Nets Blow It with Yi?
David Thorpe of ESPN thinks they may have. Thorpe has always liked Yi and this summer, after the Nets traded him to Washington, Yi spent time with Thorpe at his camp in Florida.
Thorpe says he was blown away by Yi. He told the Wizards' blog, The Truth About It, the following: "In our gym he blew us away," the coach said. "We were told by his agent, (Dan) Fegan, that we would be shocked by how athletic he was and we were. All my players in the gym were shocked. All the coaches were shocked. And I think he shocked himself."
"He was dunking everything, and beating guards down the floor, and stripping guards, and making plays full-court in transition with the ball in his hands. His strength coach, who is with him full-time, said he’s never seen him do that kind of stuff before."
Thorpe says the Nets turmoil screwed him up. "He’s almost been like a stray dog … no one’s really hugged him to say ‘you’re mine’," Thorpe said, adding, "Nothing was positive for him as it related to basketball, and he wanted to change that."
Of course, feelings aside, Yi has never mastered the NBA defense. Nor has he been able to stay on the court for more than 66 games in his three seasons in Milwaukee and New Jersey. Of course, time will tell, but Thorpe foresees a bright future for Yi in America's capital.
"I think he should play a game like Rashard Lewis," said Thorpe, "Shoot the three, play a shot fake and attack game and spread the floor. He should be really, really effective in transition with John Wall because Yi is unbelievably fast."
Nyet to Nets?
So we were surprised that Mikhail Prokhorov told Forbes Russia that the Nets would be changing their name once they got to Brooklyn...and that documents had already been submitted to the NBA offices. Any name change planned for 2012 would have to be submitted by October. That's not the surprise. It's just that we can't find evidence that the Nets, Onexim, Prokhorov's holding company, or Forest City Ratner, have applied a trademark on any name other than "Nets". They do hold trademarks on "Brooklyn Nets" and "New York Nets" as well as a Cyrillic transliteration of "Brooklyn Nets" and the more generic "Brooklyn Basketball", that last one having been registered the same week Brett Yormark first hinted about a name change. It is of course possible another company or Prokhorov's law firm obtained the trademark and will transfer it when needed.
The Nets are being cagey about the new name, with one insider saying only, "As you know there are NBA rules which govern this issue, and I think it's safe to assume we won't be the New Jersey Nets when the team moves to Brooklyn!"
As noted before, Ratner controls the url for brooklynets.com (one "n") while a critic holds the more appropriate brooklynnets.com (two "n"s). Interestingly, newarknets.com, formerly held by a Newark, CA., volleyball team, now is in someone else's hands, perhaps the Nets. Hard to tell.
Les Bleus get The Blues
Bodies keep falling at the Team France training center and we wonder if French Basketball will make a late call to Johan Petro to help out at the Worlds later this month.
On Friday alone, Joakhim Noah and Rodrique Beaubois were dropped from the team known in Paris as Les Bleus...the former because of contract negotiations and the latter because of a broken foot.
Patrick Beesley, the head of French basketball, has in the past assured fans that the team has players in reserve, ready to join the team if things get worse. One name he mentioned as the team kept losing big men was Petro's. How ironic would it be if Petro wound up as the Nets' sole representative in the World Championships. With Yi traded and Lopez still recovering from mono, there will no Nets in Turkey unless Petro gets a late call. The French team is one of four teams who will be playing in the World Basketball Festival next week in New York.
You know we will update you.
Final Note
Memo to Brett Yormark: Time to put the "Blueprint for Greatness" billboard back up on that building opposite Madison Square Garden...except this time add a third face, that of Isiah Thomas. If there is anything that will turn Knick fans into Net fans, it's the looming presence of Isiah, aka Mr. Baggage.
Heck, forget Prokhorov and Jay-Z. Just create a giant movie poster-style mural of Isiah Thomas as vampire (it's trendy), his cold, dead, bloodshot eyes staring off in the distance toward his prey, the Garden! Yeah, we like that. Now, add a few other people too: Stephon Marbury in his Escalade, intern by his side; Jerome James and Eddy Curry fighting over a cheeseburger. You might want to paint in a horrified Anucha Browne Sanders screaming as she runs towards the far edge of the poster. You could title it: "Coming Soon to the Garden: 41 Nights of the Living Dead".
Anyone still think the Knicks had a better off-season than the Nets? Not after this "signing".
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The Nets want to retain between $14 and $15 million in cap space throughout the season so they can swoop in and scoop up a star at the deadline and have $18 million next summer.
Can you name a few of these “stars” that are going to be “swooped” upon?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Just some guesses at who might be obtainable for the right price
I’m not saying these are guys we should pursue, or that I’m confidant that any of these guys will be shopped by their current teams, but that these are guys who I anticipate within reason (if the stars align), I could see could be had by midseason if the price is right:
Carmelo Anthony
Josh Smith
Andrea Bargnani
Danny Granger
Chris Paul
Tayshaun Prince
Rip Hamilton
Elton Brand
Andre Iguodala
Shawn Marion
Chauncey Billups
Andrei Kirilenko
Greg Oden
Lamarcus Aldridge
Tony Parker
Shane Battier
Baron Davis
Steve Nash (though unlikely, but if they get off slowly, you never know…)
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
I would love to get (in no particular order)
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Andre Iguodala
Andrei Kirilenko
Shane Battier
All of those guys fill a need for the Nets and while all are not “stars”, they all could help a real contender.
I see the Nets getting Kirilenko because of a) his contract and b) his connection to Prokhorov.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Good
Carmelo Anthony – not coming
Josh Smith – not a superstar level player (Atlanta is finding that out).
Andrea Bargnani – the identify of the team, not likely.
Danny Granger – not a superstar, and we have a SF
Chris Paul – possible, but doesn’t want to come here.
Tayshaun Prince – too old
Rip Hamilton – too old
Elton Brand – dead weight
Andre Iguodala – not a superstar, but a possibility. We have a SF
Shawn Marion – too old
Chauncey Billups – too old
Andrei Kirilenko – a role player
Greg Oden – microfracture surgery.
Lamarcus Aldridge – the only size on the team, not moving.
Tony Parker – too old
Shane Battier – not a star
Baron Davis – too old
Now, which of these guys is it worth eating up a great portion of your remaining cap space, and closing down your options for the future?
Which of these guys are championship level leaders in the long run?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just listing guys who I could see becoming available
I wasn’t listing guys who the Nets should pursue. Now if you want me to put my Nets-specific analyst hat on, that’s a different matter entirely. I also listed some players who aren’t superstars but wanted to be thorough.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Hmmm.
I was responding, at top, to Net Income’s now persistent claim that the Nets cannot trade for a PF because they have a master plan of scooping up a “star” at the trade deadline. I’m just wondering who in the world that would be (and why it would be a plan that is better than trading for a relatively low cost PF).
I DO really appreciate your list. He has refused to give any names. If you could think to yourself who these stars that are expected to be available I would be very interested in hearing about them.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It is just fiction to think that there is some appropriate superstar to grab up before the trade deadline.
The fiction is designed to keep Nets fans content with being a loser going into February.
And no one has explained how this so called “superstar” is going to agree to be re-signed, before leaving the team next summer in free agency.
Instead Nets could sign some expiriing like AK47 or Troy Murphy.
Proky DID promise the playoffs. Waiting until the trade deadline, may be too late to still make the playoffs.
I predict instead, that something will happen around Christmas time, when teams are more clear about their future direction. Hopefully this CP3/Mello-to-Nets nonsense will be a non-issue by then.
Responding to your comments first, then will boil my list down to players Nets could pursue
Carmelo Anthony – COULD come if only because Lala is from BROOKLYN and maybe Carmelo might cowtow to his wife…again, “if the stars align”…I admit, unlikely but possible
Josh Smith – not a superstar level player — Agreed, but could become available
Andrea Bargnani – the identify of the team, not likely — Disagree, could be had for the right price, Raptors would be insane to not put him on the table
Danny Granger – not a superstar, and we have a SF — But is on the table, clearly
Chris Paul – possible, but doesn’t want to come here — Tough bananas, he doesn’t control his destiny
Tayshaun Prince – too old — which is why he could become available
Rip Hamilton – too old — ditto
Elton Brand – dead weight — ditto
Andre Iguodala – not a superstar, but a possibility. We have a SF — You don’t disagree with me
Shawn Marion – too old — ditto
Chauncey Billups – too old — ditto
Andrei Kirilenko – a role player — expiring contract, will be put on table
Greg Oden – microfracture surgery. — someone will give him a chance
Lamarcus Aldridge – the only size on the team, not moving. — except if the price is right
Tony Parker – too old — looking for a change of scenery…in NYC to help out Eva’s career
Shane Battier – not a star — but could be had
Baron Davis – too old — ditto
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Who the Nets might pursue from my list
Carmelo Anthony
Josh Smith
Chris Paul
Andre Iguodala — I could see King pursuing Iguodala, for obvious reasons
Andrei Kirilenko
Lamarcus Aldridge
Longshots:
Shane Battier
Tony Parker
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Igu. - We are locked up at SF for several years, not a contract that others will take.
AK-47, Smith, Aldridge are not C-level players, not worth waiting the year for.
Paul isn’t coming in all liklihood, nor Mello.
It becomes a pipe dream.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree with your premise
Nets are not locked up at SF for years…If e.g. Iguodala is obtainable, they would trade for him because he is much better than any wing player the Nets currently have. “Oh, you’re offering us Iguodala? No thanks, we already have Outlaw and TWill.” Yeah, right, that’s not happening. King would pounce on Iguodala. My point: We are not locked up at SF when a better SF is put on the table.
Paul and Melo — we have to agree to disagree; if the stars align, it’s a possibility. Kidd didn’t want to come to NJ, but it happened. Tough bananas. Paul of all people doesn’t control his destiny. I agree the Nets would want an extension. You and I have discussed this in the past. Would the Nets take a gamble without an extension guarantee?
Smith, Kirilenko, Aldridge — could be had for right price; Nets might trade for them at right price, that’s all I’m saying — not that they are game changers
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Iguodala is obtainable, they would trade for him because he is much better than any wing player the Nets currently have. "Oh, you’re offering us Iguodala? No thanks, we already have Outlaw and TWill." Yeah, right, that’s not happening. King would pounce on Iguodala.
If we traded for Igu and did not get anyone to take Outlaw (whose contract is widely considered a bit of a joke already since he has only been a backup), the Nets would have invested 22-24 million a year in the SF position, and would be doing so even though Iguodala has proven he is not a regular top 10 player in the league. In otherwords we would be playing the equivalent nearly Kobe Bryant for something much much less than a Kobe. If you think that this is a good idea we don’t have much else to discuss.
Paul and Melo — we have to agree to disagree; if the stars align
You don’t make major plans hoping that the stars align. You don’t for instance, refuse to upgrade the PF position because some miracle will come and bring Mello here. Did anyone learn anything during the Lebron fiasco. These recent relocations of superstars are planned moves, not open bid, anyone can have these guys opportunities.
All in all, these are BAD ideas for long term strategy at the cost of not shoring up a real need, and not paying attention to be paid to the ONE player whose potential you value.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
and not paying attention to be paid to the ONE player whose potential you value.
sorry, convoluted…just “not paying attention to Derrick Favors, who even if you think he can play minutes, might not be able to handle many things due to his age, and should be given the opportunity to learn slow if he needs to”.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
"If you think that this is a good idea we don’t have much else to discuss."
Again, these are not MY ideas of what would be good for the Nets — I am trying to post from a Nets analyst perspective, not a Nets fan perspective — Let’s not confuse my subjective opinion on what the Nets should do with my objective prediction on what the Nets might do, because these are separate notions. If you want my personal opinion, let me think about it and get back to you. For these past few posts, I was operating as Nets pundit rather than Nets fan.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
I guess it is really hard to discuss things with a pretend devil’s advocate, especially when he makes a lot of first person claims. I too can make up a bunch of arguments why there might be a “star” who can be scooped up at the deadline, but none of them aren’t very good or convincing.
I guess as a small rule, if you are not convinced yourself of a line of reasoning you don’t really need to be pretending to forward it to me. Otherwise there is IN PRINCIPLE no way for us to find agreement, as there isn’t a real person on the other side.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
correction: none of them are very good…
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
You're losing me
I am proposing several players for one reason or another who I think the Nets could pursue or would contemplate trading for if those other teams approached them about the players I listed. Having listed them, it doesn’t mean I necessarily personally agree that the Nets should execute those trades should they actually come to fruition. But you seem to be saying I can’t do so, because doing so is being a “pretend devil’s advocate” … or something. You’re losing me. There is nothing wrong with what I’m doing. D’Alessandro and Iannazone all the time write about things they think the Nets might even though they don’t personally agree that the Nets should be doing them. The difference is they have inside info about what the Nets might do, whereas I do not.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
its not a big deal. Thanks for your thoughts.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 8, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Iggy doesnt do it for me either...
I wouldn’t do it. He has been given every opportunity to take over as the face of that team and never did. I’m good on him… NEXT..
The JETS/NETS are coming!
Mello is slotted for the Knicks or a C-level team, not NJ
Smith is not worth the cap hit.
Barg – we disagree. If he can’t lift the Rapters, he can’t lift the Nets.
Granger – that we have a SF for multiple years ends this.
Paul does control his destiny to a degree if he refuses an extension.
All the old guys are not worth pursuing.
All the rest make no sense for the Nets.
So far, we have the rough sketch that the Nets cannot better their team any more because we need to give ourselves a chance at Mello and Paul (Lebron style), or add Barg or Smith. Is either plan worth ANYTHING?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
totally agree with KV
we should have learn with Lebron.
For weeks I seen Nets fans tried to deny that Carmelo doesn’t have any interest in the Knicks but for weeks since the signing of Amare sources close to Melo have said he will not sign the extension and become a free agent.
What was announce on Tuesday???
Yea. LALA grew up a Knick fan as did Melo.
This is the same thing with Bosh Lebron and Wade.
The toast happening and the people denying it can keep believing that the sky isn’t blue and that Santa is real but the proof is in the pudding,
CP3 announcing he would welcome a trade to the knicks. Now Melo about to turn down the extension and said he is not concern about a lockout.
My point. The Nets shouldn’t focus on players who already have their plans set. Stay the course
by killa kadafi191 on Aug 7, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to add I very much appreciate specific names being brought up and discussed
Instead of talk of vague “trade deadline” scooping up.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It's Referring to Mid-Season Trades
Having that much cap space and draft picks, the Nets are primed to steal away a big time NBA star before this year’s trade deadline. Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony obviously come to mind (no matter how far fetched the idea is), however others could emerge. The Nets have enough draft picks and space to make a Pau Gasol Memphis to Lakers type trade. And considering the NBA could be in a lock-out, teams will be definitely looking to send away some of their high-end talent.
The Nets also have some solid role players to send back to other teams. Terrence Williams, Devin Harris and Travis Outlaw come to mind (don’t forget Travis Outlaw, while some think is overpaid, is only getting what would be considered the MLE, that’s nothing for someone of his caliber considering he has never started).
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Having that much cap space and draft picks, the Nets are primed to steal away a big time NBA star before this year’s trade deadline. Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony obviously come to mind (no matter how far fetched the idea is), however others could emerge.
Who are these secret others? Are any of these elite players? If not elite, why lose your cap space.
Mello isn’t coming to NJ anymore than Lebron was. And though there is a tiny chance that the Hornets could FORCE a trade of Paul, it is not likely, and he would want to go elsewhere.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If you knew syntax...
The point of stating others could emerge refers to the fact that if a team is underperforming and stripped of cap flexibility, they may trade away their star at a discounted rate. To name specifics mean that I would be predicting which established teams will fail, and that is very hard to predict.
Regarding Paul, people need to stop treating him like LeBron. If the New Orleans Hornets want to trade him, they will, end of story. Sure, Paul may not get to go to play for his first choice. Tough. If he knew anything, I can guarantee that once he comes to the Nets, he would realize how good of a situation it is.
What do you think was going through Jason Kidd’s head when Phoenix sent him packing? Look how that turned out…
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The point of stating others could emerge refers to the fact that if a team is underperforming and stripped of cap flexibility, they may trade away their star at a discounted rate. To name specifics mean that I would be predicting which established teams will fail, and that is very hard to predict.
I get it. Don’t improve your team at PF because some unnamed, unknown “star” is going to float up like a dead body on the river. Don’t ask me who he is, he is out there. I know it. I can FEEL it.
Regarding Paul, people need to stop treating him like LeBron. If the New Orleans Hornets want to trade him, they will, end of story.
First of all, Lebron’s team is behind the move, many of the same (get a lot of teams excited) tactics are going to be involved. Second of all, if Paul makes it known he doesn’t want to go somewhere, that team will not outbid the trade price that the team has assurances from.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The Nets have enough draft picks and space to make a Pau Gasol Memphis to Lakers type trade.
The Laker trade worked because they added Pau to a team with the best player in the league on it, not to mention several very good players. The Nets are not in a position to add a Pau-type (max their cap) and become a C-level team. Not even close.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The mention of the Pau trade
Referred to the fact that he was a steal. He was taken from an underperforming team at a good rate. That is it. You don’t have to be so smug.
The Nets are absolutely in a position to add someone like Pau if the price is right. They have $14 million in cap space? How doesn’t that put them in that position?
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I have ALWAYS been in favor of a Paul trade. In fact I was the leading advocate for correcting the mistaken information regarding the severity of his injury on this site. the question is whether you bank EVERYTHING on the possibility of making such a trade.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Who is banking anything?
The Nets are sticking to their plan right now…see below.
You are overestimating rumors…
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Net Income is banking. Or has has been for the last 7 days.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
yi always had the skills…just no confidence at all except for spurts of 3 games occasionally
by tian17 on Aug 7, 2010 5:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Good luck with Yi.
Talented as hell but is missing whatever gene is required to be a real NBA player.
by Gideon Jay on Aug 7, 2010 5:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Knicks did have a better off season: they signed a star. That star has potential to lure other stars (i.e. paul, melo). They got a decent point guard. So, the filled out their needs; we still have a hole at PF and don’t have a star.
Yet...
The Knicks have screwed themselves in the long-run. You don’t build a team around Amare Stoudemire, essentially for that contract. If he gets hurt, which he most likely will within the next two years, the Knicks are in trouble.
Add Isiah to the picture, players will be turned off. Everyone knows about what he did to that franchise.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t build a team around Amare Stoudemire, essentially for that contract.
Is it better to build your team around an unnamed player you are going to get at the trade deadline with 14 mill cap space?
Bird in the hand, two in the bush.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
you really do not understand the NBA
nor do you understand what being flexible means, period.
moreover, you denigrate the players the Nets already have.
by Net Income on Aug 7, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
That’s funny. 7 days ago you didn’t know the NBA either, as you were listing possible PFs for the Nets to trade for. Crazy how that “knowing the NBA” moves around.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Net Income: "Last week, we listed a few point guards who we thought the Nets would be interested in if they are indeed going for "glue guys". This week, we’re going to take a look at a couple of young power forwards who play for teams that appear to have decided to go in a different direction, leaving these guys available. In both cases, their teams have to be thinking about the luxury tax and may not need a player in return…
..The second player out there is Brandon Bass of the Magic. Bass, at 6’8", is a power forward…period. He’s being paid $4 million over each of the next three years, making him a bit more expensive. Bass thrived under Avery Johnson, but has done nothing before or since Dallas. He averaged 8.4 ppg and 4.5 rpg in 19 minutes a game over 160 games in Dallas. But after signing a $16 million deal with the Magic, Bass played in only 50 games for the Magic, averaging 5.8 ppg in only 13 minutes a game. The Magic are way over the luxury tax and don’t seem to have much love for Bass, focusing instead on Ryan Anderson as their backup 4"
July 31st, 2010.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd
Net Income speaks the truth
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 8, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I really don't think you get this at all and are way to strict in your logic...
The Nets plan is to build through the draft and develop their talent first and foremost. Spend most of your energy team building with your core: Harris, Lopez, Favors. From there, the Nets will have to smoothly integrate their consummate role players: T. Will, Morrow, Farmar, Outlaw, James and Petro. Johnson will work them hard and preach defense. The Nets should improve solely from his tutelage and style of game.
However, if the potential for a trade rolls around by mid-season (THEY ALWAYS DO, WATCH AND FOLLOW THE NBA), the Nets are primed to jump at the chance with their multiple levels of flexibility as mentioned previously. It is IMPOSSIBLE to predict which players will be available but if the Nets are going to seriously consider improving their team, they have to trade for an established player. He may not be a superstar but do you think that any major FA would come to the Nets if they didn’t trade for someone like Iguodala, Granger etc.? Package Lee, T. Will, Outlaw and picks for someone along those lines, someone like Paul would be more interested to join.
Who would he rather play for, the team they have now or something like this:
(Insert Paul Here – Harris is traded)/Farmar
Iguodala/Morrow (T. Will/Lee have been traded as well)
Outlaw/James
Favors/Humphries or whoever
Lopez/Petro
That team would be a fun team to watch and would easily compete for an Eastern Crown. Do not underestimate how good that team would be and the Nets current roster.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The Nets plan is to build through the draft and develop their talent first and foremost.
Which is exactly why you trade one of your surplus SGs (you have 4) for a PF to protect Favors (your prize young guy) in case he has a slow learning curve. You do not FORCE your young PF to start.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not forcing him if Johnson thinks he can...
And to trade away any of those guys, especially Terrence Williams for a stop-gap PF is short-sighted thinking.
I’d rather have Humphries start. In all seriousness.
Depth is excellent to have: it creates competition and provides incentive to play better.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The intelligent thing is to have backup plans. You THINK he can do it, but you don’t know What if he stumbles? What if he loses confidence? What if the refs give him a hard time?
There are 100s of possibilities where things don’t go right. This guy is your future. You don’t have a backup plan for PF. And you don’t flush the season down the drain if Favors just happens to not be ready.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
But you have ALL seen what Johnson’s inability to deal with difficult personalities has done to the roster. If they trade Williams because Johnson can’t handle him, they can go rot in ****.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Aug 7, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And yes, that was a DIRECT indictment of Thorn’s stubbornness.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Aug 7, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
How were the Knicks able to sign Roger Mason Jr. to a 1 year contract? What did they pay for him, as Knicks were already within 4 million of the salary cap.
How is it that Nets are getting only Sean May, while Knicks are picking up Roger Mason, Jr.?
I guess the Nets don’t need another SG, considering that TW is already threatened to be pretty buried on the bench.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
the Nets dont need Roger Mason Jr
the Nets have plenty of shooters and Roger Mason Jr was available because he regressed last year.
If Anthony Randolph turns into a star, then they will have had a very good off season, but if he continues to be a the injury prone head case he’s been the first two years of his career, they will not.
Nets will have a better record.
My question is how was it that Roger Mason Jr. wasn't able to find another team willing to sign him for at least 2 years?
Does anyone know what the Knicks paid? They only had 4 million in cap space.
Roger Mason was supposed to be hot stuff a year ago – Nets were going to trade VC for him?
Knicks signing Mason for just 1 year is consistent with their plan to have cap space to sign Melo next summer.
That would mean that Mason could be dropped again. Then why would Mason agree to go to Knicks?
That would mean that Mason could be dropped again. Then why would Mason agree to go to Knicks?
Perhaps Mason only wanted a one year deal, believing that he had been on the rise, but he needs to reestablish his market value. He might put up some very good numbers in the Knick system. A very good outside shooter. Look at the drop in his numbers for 3 years:
3PT %: 39, 42, 33
FG % : 44, 42, 38
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
From the Knicks point of view, they are focused on taking players who would accept a 1 year contract.
Knicks got lucky that no other team wanted him more, including San Antonio.
Seems no one knows what Mason is being paid?
how the hell
is anthony randolph a headcase. heis the farthest thing from it.
lol
So…. Your young 6’10 stud was asked to rebound on a team thyat had enough scoring and he couldn’t do that soundly…lol. Now he comes to the kncks and you have two young 6’10 players and one wants to shoot 3’s the other wants to dribble ike a guard. And Nobody on this team actually WANTS to rebound and play D. BUT…. This is a PLAYOFF team???? oooooooook
The JETS/NETS are coming!
yeah, right
and they have Isiah Thomas looming over the whole thing.
one injury to Stoudemire and their entire plan is screwed. they cannot get insurance for Stoudemire.
As for decent point guard, how decent was he that his former team wasn’t interested in keeping him.
The were interested in keeping him, just not at that price. And you know that Larry Brown is crazy with PGs. He loves them, and then he sours.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, he's "crazy" with PG's whatever that means.
by the way, who was the KNick competition for this fabulous point guard? Was there a bidding war?
there was not.
Whatever that means?
Are you familiar at all with Larry Brown’s history with PGs?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
yea but Thomas
got them Amare which has will eventually lead to other stars joining.
When the get Melo the Amare deal will be well worth it. Heck it already has.
When you have the likes of Melo and Paul interested in the Knicks it shows the franchise is going in the right direction
by killa kadafi191 on Aug 7, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That is so ridiculous to claim...
Pure and utter speculation. I’ll believe it when I see it.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
these two believe it
even though neither player, particularly Anthony, has said a thing about it.
the supposed “toast” has never been confirmed. Never. the original report claimed it was a from a friend of Amare who was at the Melo wedding. No one has confirmed the other report, that Melo is going to put aside the $65 million contract.
The culture of the complaint dominates.
Well said
I usually don’t comment on these boards but read them all the time. I was a very active member at ESPN and if any of them are here now, I’ve changed my name from nilsen10 to zer210 to ZR. They know my credibility over there. I think I’ve seen imdkidd on here a couple of times, ask him.
KV, I’ve read a lot of what you write and it seems you just like arguing with people for no reason. Back off of people. You are not God, you do not have all the answers and in most cases are probably wrong.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
KV, I’ve read a lot of what you write and it seems you just like arguing with people for no reason.
You seem to be arguing with me for no reason. All I asked was WHO is this supposed star that is going to be available at the trade deadline that keeps us from pursuing a PF to protect Favors?
This is not a crazy question. Hello?
That Net Income proposed the possibility of the SAME trade 7 days ago, and now thinks its ridiculous is, well, embarrassing for him.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Why don't you read what I said up there first, I feel like your simply ignoring what I write...
And also, when you make statements like “not even close” after commenting on what I write, that’s arrogant.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, starting Humphries is protection.
Favors will get a lot of time if Humphries starts and could spell him well as the season goes on.
Look at Lopez, he started 40 games or so in. That’s the plan with Favors. Trading depth for half a season of a starter is poor cap management and short-sighted.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Humphries is not a minutes guy, is a very poor shooter, much less skilled than Bass. The “plan” with Favors can’t be the same as Lopez. They are DIFFERENT players, and he is much less NBA ready in terms of experience.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Splitting between Humphries and Favors would be fine...
Petro is going to get minutes there too.
In terms from NBA experience, you can say the same for John Wall.
Go on ESPN.com on the Nets blog and look at the videos of Favors and his PGs not getting him the ball. In terms of defense and rebounding, he can definitely compete right away. It’s his offense that needs work, but if you look at those videos, his positioning is excellent and IQ is way higher than people presume. No one could give him the ball, let’s see what happens if he plays with Harris and Farmar.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Go on ESPN.com on the Nets blog and look at the videos of Favors and his PGs not getting him the ball. In terms of defense and rebounding, he can definitely compete right away.
His defense and rebounding hardly looked “compete right away” in Summer League, against d-leaguers. There are PFs who will outright abuse Favors in the first year. The smart thing to do is to bring him along slowly, build his confidence only as fast as it can grow. He is your project and a lot is riding on his potential. The guy is 19.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
but but but
he played behind Dirk! And he didn’t fit Orlando’s system! Never mind he played behind no MVP caliber player in New Orleans or Orlando. Or that the Magic signed him to have more options so they could have the alternative to go with a more physical line up ith Bass, but he gave them no reason to go that way, and sat and didn’t even play almost half the games because his coach’s decision.
And who needs 4 SGs worth of DEPTH?????
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
They are all different types of players
We obviously know Ross won’t play, but he is a good defensive specialist. Morrow hits threes, Williams is a stat filler and athletic freak and Lee is your typical 2-guard but is undersized. Both bring different things to the table.
Honestly, if it wasn’t for what Johnson said, people would consider Williams a three. Johnson’s words are not set in stone.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not even COUNTING Ross.
That means we have 5 SG options. A ridiculous amount of options considering our primary need is to protect and bring along Favors.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, if it wasn’t for what Johnson said, people would consider Williams a three. Johnson’s words are not set in stone.
Yeah, its terrible when the coach makes statements that get in the way of your assessment of how the team is going to go.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd ZR's comment
Trading depth for half a season of a starter is poor cap management and short-sighted.
This
exactly bro
I don’t understand the “logic” behind this urge to trade players for a short term solution, and never will.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 8, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't get it
Avery said Favors could start by mid-season. Why lose anything significant (cap space, young players, or picks) for a guy who will just start the very few firsts week and then get buried behind two studs (Favors and Lopez) and get what 12 minutes a night? Favors should get no less than 25 minutes a night, so you have 23 left, who can be taken by Hump, Petro and the spot minutes Outlaw and James get there. It’s no big deal, IMO.
rec'd for ZR
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 8, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
explain Paul wanted to be traded to Knicks and Melo not signing his extension.
Can’t wait to see how you spin it. hahahhaahahahahha but hey according to you “Melo will be signing the extension” any day. hahahaha
by killa kadafi191 on Aug 7, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Idk
@ net icome
Raymond Felton may not be the stud Nash is, but he still an excellent floor general and he does provide leadership for that team. I actually feel like Felton was an excellent pick up.
ray
felton was in the wrong system. he needs to be in a fast paced offense like he was at unc. u and i both know that.
WHY DIDNT THE LAKERS WANT FARMAR WHO YOUR SO HGH ON????
Farmar doesn't really fit the mold of a triangle PG
why are you so worried about our players if the Knicks are so great?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 8, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Knicks did have a better off season: they signed a star. That star has potential to lure other stars (i.e. paul, melo). They got a decent point guard. So, the filled out their needs; we still have a hole at PF and don’t have a star.
The Knicks were the only ones willing to offer Amare the big bucks. That NEEDS to tell you something. And again, I like Stat. But after drafted Favors he made zero sense, let alone at the price he cost the Knicks.
This is just a case of someone being easily impressed by a flashy signing with little regard for common sense.
The Knicks bid against themselves, period. We should be glad that the Nets didn’t cripple themselves just to appease a few fickle folks who would rather we blow everything on big names that won’t get us anywhere just to say that we did something
we’re trying to rebuild into a contender. You don’t do that by behaving recklessly
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 8, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
amare
us a 5 time all star, all nba, rookie of the year
he is one the reasons why chris paul and carmelo anthony have stated their desire to come here. amare brngs toughness to the floor, will instill confidence in the locker room, and wants the bright lights.
when carmelo anthony signs with the knicks i cannot wait for your reaction or should i say the homer spin youll put on it.
You won’t be able to respond to my ‘homer spin’ because you won’t be posting here for too much longer bro.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 8, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't wait until GALLO goes AWAY...lol
All it takes is that Aare injury and Melo and Pau will both reconsider rather quickly. There are alot of miles on those knees. And as it looks Amare will have to PLAY CENTER. And that should break hm down even quicker with bigger stronger guys leanin on him. Can’t wait to see how he ooks when they ask him to gaurd Shaq.
The JETS/NETS are coming!
As for Yi
this player will be out of the league sooner enough he always looks good during the summer and practice.
He will be out of the league real soon. Good riddance
Actually, he won't
Yi would be a very very good backup for someone who fits his skill set. Magic come to mind.
He provides instant scoring, if he could ever improve his defense he’d be very good.
by ZR on Aug 7, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
YI again??
Anyone who believes Yi has any value loses my respect as an evaluator of talent. Yi costs his team points almost everytime he takes the court. “His skill set” consists of mediocre shooting ability and long reach. Defense? He made Beasley look like the second coming of Elgin Baylor. He made Kevin Garnett look like KG 1999 model. The Nets got nothing for Yi because he has no value.
I just hope you guys are right about Yi..
It will be a sad day if he reaches all that potential and we gave hm up for nothing..
The JETS/NETS are coming!
Exactly
Yi is a practice player and nothing more.
???
Why are people saying that these trades cant happen. These are all trades that can be done because of our cap sapce, daft picks and players we can trade.
No killer trades, Please
I hope the Nets don’t go for a “star” in trades this year. They should develop the two excellent first round draft choices, Brooke TWILL and Harris, in my opinion. After we suffered through last year, as Nets fans, we should have learned patience. At least we are rid of the international marketing gimmicks – Najera and Yi – and are focusing on basketball again.
EXACTLY...
Let’s put in a solid system and put these guys in position to be productive. They new guys all sound excited to play for Avery. Let’s just hope he doesnt wear them out.
The JETS/NETS are coming!
Deleted several comments in this thread.
Discuss the topic without taking shots at other commenters.
Thanks.
NetsDaily
NetsDaily.com
Will do.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
For those who think that Humphries and Bass have the same “skill set” this simply is not the case. Bass is a much better shooter than Humphries:
per 36 minutes: 12 shot attempts
58% of his shots are jump shots: eFG% = 36%
27% of his shots are "close": eFG% =42%
Bass:
per 36 minutes: 12.9 shot attempts
62% of his shots are jump shots: eFG% = 43%
21% of his shots are "close": eFG% = 56%
From last year the same rate of shot attempts, but Bass shoots BETTER than Hump from the jump shot range than Hump does at "close" range. And at close range it isn’t even a comparison, with Bass nearing the golden 60%. If Bass is taking worse shots than Hump, he is making them at a much higher clip.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Fair enough. Doesn’t make sense to me considering we have 5 SG options and Favors is 19 years old.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 7, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Bass is ok he's not carrying us to the playoffs lol
He’s not making the allstar team anytime soon, no point in giving up anything worthy for him.
As with other possible players for Nets to get, most teams will want to wait to after seaons begins to evaluate their talent.
For example if RA looks good to Orlando, they might just want to get rid of Bass’ 3 year contract for very little.
If Bass looks good and RA doesn’t, maybe RA would be available without giving up much.
Unless, or until Sean May fails, he does accomplish the minimum Nets need to enter the season, especially if he reverts to his 2006-2007 season and maybe is in even better shape and further recovered from his micro fracture surgery.
The Sean May that was originally hoped for by Charlotte, is really what the Nets need as he is a Moose PF with low post moves and can block out and rebound.
I wonder why Dave D. is so confident that he won’t make the team. Seems that unless Nets pick up someone else between now and start of season, it is up to Sean whether he makes team.
If he's in shape he will make the team he's talented
Will bring what Bass would have the moose, has a softer touch inside
He doesn’t have to take us to the playoffs. He just has to keep Favors from having to be on the floor if he isn’t ready. Nobody knows Favors learning curve. It’s called insurance on your most valuable possession.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 8, 2010 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I brought him up a little bit ago. Net Income said he belongs to Toronto I believe.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 8, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder
what this new name is that Proky was talking about. i’m so curious i wish they’d just annouce it right now so we’d annouce it right now so the world will know what it is.

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