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Around SBN: Identifying The 19th-Best Team In Baseball

A Peek into Avery Johnson's Coaching Philosophy

Looking around the internet, I stumbled across a preview for the book "NBA Coaches Playbook". In it was a chapter by Avery Johnson describing his attacking offense, and it seems like a plan our team is built to follow

If you research Avery, you'll see his entire philosophy revolves around being the attacker or aggressor...even on defense.  In his video, "Attacking Man-to-Man Defenses, Part I & I", the former Coach of the Year lays things out in more detail.  (click the link for a short video)

Here's a breakdown of what you can find in the chapter and the video:

Star-divide

Offense:

The system I wanted to implement sprang from my overall philosophy of being the aggressor, not a reactor, on the basketball court. 

After a missed shot by the opponents, with the ball in our possession, we want to go. Of course, the first and most important part of starting an offense is not to let the opponents grab the offensive rebound. This means every player must do whatever needs to be done to keep his man off the defensive board. The blocking-out technique can vary from coach to coach, but the must for each defender is to prevent his man from grabbing the offensive rebound.

Immediately after we get the rebound, the rebounder makes the outlet pass as we convert to our offense. We don't always want our point guard to come back to receive the outlet pass from the rebounder. We also want our shooting guard and small forward to be ready to receive the outlet pass in case the point guard is not in position.

So the first key concept for running in transition is to have multiple players ready to receive the ball and attack the basket. I always use the word "attack" on offense because this communicates to my players the aggressive style we're seeking on the court. Once the ball is to the outlet, our other big man (the one who didn't get the rebound) sprints to a position under the offensive rim. Two wings run the sidelines. The point guard pushes the ball hard down the floor.

Let's now go over what I call the three areas we have when we attack the man-to-man defense: the passing ahead area, the decision area, and the breaking area. 

Passing ahead area: If the player receiving the outlet pass sees an open teammate ahead of him, he immediately passes the ball to him. If he can't pass ahead, the ball handler quickly brings the ball downcourt, not too close to the sideline to avoid the trap. We want the ball to spend very little time in the passing ahead, so we push it forward quickly but with control.

Decision area: Once the ball crosses the midcourt line, whatever player has the ball must quickly decide what he's going to do with it. 

Say the ball is still in the ball handler's possession at the spot shown in figure 5.1 (Just above the midcourt line). At this point, the ball handler must determine instantly if it's the best to pass to the big man near the hoop, get the ball to the wing popping open, or hit a cutter breaking free toward the basket. Another possibility is to use a high screen for a pick-and-roll play. In any case, the ball handler must keep his dribble until he decides what to do with the ball. Whatever the choice, he must commit to it and force movement from the defense. 

Breaking area: As the ball advances forward, near the key, it's now in the area of the court where we break off to form our triangle...

...For my teams, it's crucial we don't keep the ball on the same side of the floor. If nothing positive develops, we reverse the ball to the other side of the half-court. We swing the ball to the other side in any possible way, swinging it through the post or via a pick-and-roll, but we must swing the ball. 

If we don't find a shot I call an "80 percent efficiency shot", which means a direct drive to the basket and a layup (very rare against good defenses), we must swing the ball to the other side of the court....

...This keeps the defense moving, thereby improving our percentage for getting a good shot.

I now want to discuss the situation in which the ball handler, who is trapped, picks up his dribble. We teach players in this situation that the ball handler must be in a strong position and look to break through the trap to pass the ball out, either stepping strongly between the two defenders or else pivoting away from the trap and passing the ball. The trapped player must never be in a surrender position, with the ball high overhead, or afraid of losing the ball. 

When the ballhandler starts a baseline drive, he must not "jump on the trampoline". That is, he shouldn't jump into his shot, especially against teams that like to take the charge. During the drive, the ball handler must avoid committing a charging foul or losing control of the ball.

Again, I put a lot of emphasis on fundamentals and particulars. One of these particulars is that my players must always play to minimize turnovers and lost possessions. I emphasize teaching them how to avoid losing the ball and different ways to pass the ball out of the trap on the baseline. 

Always suit your philosophy to your personnel, exploiting your players' strengths and limiting their weaknesses.

When the ball is swung,you as the coach must tell the player who received the ball not to hold it. He must catch and shoot, catch and drive, catch and pass--anything but hold it. He can't allow his defender to catch up to him. 

Your star player must not give in to weak double-teams because this gives your opponent an opportunity to steal the pass; he must try to split the double team and go for a score. 

When you're experiencing tough stretches and accompanying fatigue, it can be easy to slack off during practice. Guard against that. The lack of aggressiveness might carry over to games. I've been known to turn a light shoot-around on game day into a highly intense competitive practice. Only players with an attacking attitude can be effective in my system, and if they're going to be attacking in games, I want them attacking in practice, too.

An attacking offense takes time and commitment to run, but if you stick with it, the rewards are well worth the effort. Before we conclude, let's review the concepts we've discussed in this chapter:

 

  • From a broad philosophy of play, isolate a system and its individual components. Master those essential components and then work on each detail, such as specific plays and situation-specific tactics.
  • The key offensive principle is to attack. Players can't be passive or hold the ball. The more pressure applied against a defense, the more likely it will crack.
  • A fast pass beats the fastest dribbler every time, so find ways to move the ball as quickly as possible via the pass, especially to the weak side, where the shooting percentage should be higher. 
  • Stretch the defense by squaring the floor.
  • On the pick-and-roll, the screener must separate from the pick.
  • The other four players on the floor must always be ready to help the ball handler

Every player and coach is accountable to the offensive system - no exceptions. Good and bad days come and go during the course of a season but a system and the commitment to its success should never waiver. Trust in your system and make it work. 

Defense:

The first part of this presentation is attacking Man-to-Man defense from a defensive standpoint. Johnson lists several benefits for this style of play: It will disrupt the timing of your opponent's offense, it wears out the opponent and it turns up aggressiveness. 

After a made basket, Johnson shows some opportunities to jam the in-bound passer and slow down the possession. This defense philosophy looks to trap near the half court area and rotate with interceptors to force turnovers. This attack can be done at the full-court, _ court, or half court. In the half court, specific techniques and strategies are demonstrated and explained. Building a wall against penetration is crucial for good defensive teams. Once trapped, this defense makes it hard for the offense to pass. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ramifications:

every player must do whatever needs to be done to keep his man off the defensive board

We will no longer be a bottom 3 rebounding team. 

Once the ball is to the outlet, our other big man (the one who didn't get the rebound) sprints to a position under the offensive rim. 

Might Favors start after all? Neither Brook nor Murphy can do this, how much will they be playing together? Will we go small on occasion with Outlaw or James as the other big man?

We also want our shooting guard and small forward to be ready to receive the outlet pass in case the point guard is not in position.

TWill is an important cog in the team, with his ball handling abilities at the wing position. Our objective will be to get the ball from the rebound to our basket as quickly as possible. The point guard will not always be in position to bring it up, so our wing players need to be able to assume his role. But TWill won't be an important part of the team if he doesn't get his head in order -> 

Once the ball crosses the midcourt line, whatever player has the ball must quickly decide what he's going to do with it. 

At this point, the ball handler must determine instantly

The fast break will involve a lot of decision making. A lot of quick decision making. A lot of quick decision making that needs to be correct. Twill can't play wild and risky because...

 I put a lot of emphasis on fundamentals and particulars. One of these particulars is that my players must always play to minimize turnovers and lost possessions.

Avery hates turnovers. That behind the head 20 foot pass you wanna do? Not gonna fly. In relation with this you can what you can expect from our team next year is

If we don't find a shot I call an "80 percent efficiency shot", which means a direct drive to the basket and a layup (very rare against good defenses), we must swing the ball to the other side of the court

I emphasize teaching them how to avoid losing the ball

Efficiency. Avery doesn't like low percentage shots or losing the ball. We will push the break, but in the half court, we will be patient for high percentage shots. 

Lastly, our players better be in great shape and ready to bring it every day because Avery doesn't look like a guy who's gonna lift his foot from the pedal

I've been known to turn a light shoot-around on game day into a highly intense competitive practice.

Every player and coach is accountable to the offensive system - no exceptions. Good and bad days come and go during the course of a season but a system and the commitment to its success should never waiver. 

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Think back to your youth bball days… remember the team that wasn’t really better then you, but they were more aggressive? Made you uncomfortable, took you out of your rhythm, forced turnovers…

by Tim823 on Aug 31, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

ugh yeah i remember THAT team

was really annoying and threw us off our offense

by Fr@nkl1n on Aug 31, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats my team right now

by i says on Sep 1, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The first thing that caught me right away was

the emphasis on being the aggressor, not the reactor

This is totally different from Lawrence Frank

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah... Frank was always worried what the other guys were going to do to the Nets...

Now let our opponents worry about what we are going to do to them… And right now we have the numbers to throw at them. Ten deep…

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

its like a bully/victom situation

Frank had a victom aproach, avery has a little more of both

by i says on Sep 1, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

muwu, I applaud you

This is awesome stuff, and it really gives me a better picture of what we can expect from this team.

Immediately after we get the rebound, the rebounder makes the outlet pass as we convert to our offense. We don’t always want our point guard to come back to receive the outlet pass from the rebounder. We also want our shooting guard and small forward to be ready to receive the outlet pass in case the point guard is not in position.

Dude…this SCREAMS Terrence Williams.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

I’ve been known to turn a light shoot-around on game day into a highly intense competitive practice. Only players with an attacking attitude can be effective in my system, and if they’re going to be attacking in games, I want them attacking in practice, too.

Now this is my kind of coach right here.

I can already tell that there will be some growing pains for Williams and Lopez, but it will be worth it.

I love it.

Your star player must not give in to weak double-teams because this gives your opponent an opportunity to steal the pass; he must try to split the double team and go for a score.

BROOK.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Same quote screamed out at me too

But it screamed we don’t have any good ballhandlers outside of the PG position except for TWill — Travis Outlaw, Damion James, Anthony Morrow etc do not fit this description.

by mt57 on Aug 31, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Morrow and James are good enough.

by Tim823 on Aug 31, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

The JETS/NETS are coming!

by MrBDown on Sep 2, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ditto.

Promoting a grenade-free America.

by NBRITM on Aug 31, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

attack, attack, attack!!!

T-Will can play defense, he did at Louisville. Rick Pitino stresses defense and conditioning two things that Terrence has been accustomed to.
I know he didn’t show much defensively last year, but neither did any of the other players outside of Lee.
This season will be different and I can’t wait. Avery is going to have them going after each other even during practice.
Sissies will be on the sidelines, so everybody better suit up with body armor.
This is war!

by aunt-B on Aug 31, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah it does sound like...

….if he keeps his head on straight and under control, it can get the best out of his abilities.

It’s funny to read this, and then think about the comments made about Williams being a “4th string” player on this team.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has the skills to be in the high 50% to low 60% range… eliminate forced shots!

by Tim823 on Aug 31, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats what im expecting less force shots

Less double teams. Better scoring options around him should equal less forced shots

by nwkiddnj on Aug 31, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

better positioning in the post...

….will also = high % shot attempts.

A lot of his forced shots came from the fact that he got pushed out to the free throw line.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont blame the double teams, i blame his attitude like “i can make anything, bring on a triple team!”

This scares me, I know you like this, but it scares me: Your star player must not give in to weak double-teams because this gives your opponent an opportunity to steal the pass; he must try to split the double team and go for a score.

by Tim823 on Aug 31, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even with the triple teams

our possessions were more effective with the ball in his hands either drawing a foul or attempting a shot than it was to pass the ball out to YI or Hassell for a jumper.

by Scoot21 on Aug 31, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

AGREED

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets not jinx it. Lets not forget he is the only constant in every trade proposal that’s been suggested.

by Tim823 on Aug 31, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Avery's philosophy on driving inside fits us and all of our acquisitions to a T
After he reaches the offensive half court, let’s imagine that our ball handler (1) has beaten his defender and is driving towards the baseline. Depending on the opposing coach’s defensive philosophy, a team might collapse on the driver three defenders and in this case, open a passing lane to the corner to 4

To visualize: 1 (Devin) is driving the the rim from the right wing, 4 (Murphy) is at the right corner just inside the three point line

But many teams create a defensive wall with two defenders (X1 and X5), who deny the pass to the corner. In this case, it’s important for 1, the ball handler making the baseline drive, to make the right decision; it’s also critical to have good spacing among teammates. For this reason we need to set a player at what I call a dunking position, which means under the rim. In this case, 5 slides into the middle of the key, and 3 drifts to the baseline to spot up in front of the ball handler and give him another good passing lane.

To visualize: Same as above, with 5 (Lopez) going to the middle of the paint after coming from the left side of it and 3 (Outlaw) going to the left corner opposite 4.

So many options, all the ball handler has to do is make the right decision. He can score it himself, pass it to Murphy at his right for an open jumper, dump it down low to Lopez for a dunk, or whip it across the other side for an Outlaw three.

by muwu on Aug 31, 2010 1:32 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

rec'd

pure win

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lots of capable offensive players that makes this work

I am so glad to read this. I have been wondering about Avery’s schemes and philosophies. Needless to say offensively our roster fits this to a T. I’mexcited

The JETS/NETS are coming!

by MrBDown on Sep 2, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yi

Well you can see why they got rid of Yi, who clearly thought he was bound by some nonaggression treaty between the US and the People’s Republic.

by mt57 on Aug 31, 2010 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

You know, it's funny

You say that " Avery doesn’t like low percentage shots or losing the ball." This is especially refreshing. I sat courtside one game and overheard Kiki in the huddle shouting (well, saying) “Guys, I want you to jack up shots when you can – off hand if need be. And remember, always lose the damn ball. We’re not trying to catch a 24 here, fellas.” So glad we have Avery.

by Will J on Aug 31, 2010 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

The Nets were built to lose last season...

AJ is a professional coach. Kiki was a G.M. front office type. Big difference…G.M’s are paid to assemble a team. Coaches are paid to get those players to play effectively. Come opening game you will see what a good coach can do for a team, especially a young team.

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah . . . erh . . . ahem

On July 12th posted “It’s All New! What to Expect on Offense and Defense Under Avery Johnson.” http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/7/12/1565767/its-all-new-what-to-expect-on
(complete with videos).

I suppose what was old, is now new again. That, or this will be the longest 3 weeks of the off-season.

by Doesthishurt on Aug 31, 2010 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

 murphy is going to bring the pf to the 3 pt line, clearing the lane for both harris and Twill, their is going to be a lot of spacing on the offensive end for us to swing the ball in this system,

by Benl1 on Aug 31, 2010 1:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Not only do these excerpts sound to fit the strengths of T-Will, but also Favors. We’ll see what happens.

Promoting a grenade-free America.

by NBRITM on Aug 31, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe tha tis why Favors and T-Will are with the team...

AJ could of had Cousins, Johnson etc… He chose Favors. AJ could of gotten rid of T-Will by now. T-Will is still with us. One of only four players from last year. I think that is by design.

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

but I thought that Williams wouldn't get any playing time?

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one said that.

Promoting a grenade-free America.

by NBRITM on Aug 31, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

are you sure?

I know that you didn’t say it

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um

A certain poster who thinks that because he’s twice as old as the average poster on here means he is smarter then them and always right CERTAINLY DID say there would be no playing time for TWill and that he was at best the third stringer at SG, thus coming to the conclusion that TWill would be gone very soon. The same pretentious poster then proceeded to inform us that CLee is the perfect fit for AJs system and how AJ loves CLee. He said this also suggesting that TWill will have no PT. Certain individuals who shall remain nameless agreed with said poster. I know words are a rather dry meal but someone needs to sprinkle some sugar and chow down. Of course said posters who think they are smarter and ‘intellectually superior’ would never admit they were wrong or eat their words. And fortunately for them, we know better around here then to demand it from them and waste our time.

by adronaline on Sep 2, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

ROFL

Good stuff.

I mean yeah, Williams is a work in progress, but the idea that he, the only other Net player that is skilled enough to get his own shot off and create for others besides Devin Harris, would be rotting on the pine was just laughable. And then the silence and the backtracking that followed once Lee’s crybaby behind got shipped out of here was even more hilarious.

Just goes to show you that once again, opinions do not equal facts.

Also, if you really want to rub salt in the wound, muwu’s excellent post about Avery’s offensive system basically shows that Williams might be a perfect fit.

Crow will be served cold and bitter this winter, mark my words.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Sep 2, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

2 of Averys 3 keys to winning championships

are Rebounding and Playmaking (defense was the first). TWill excels at both, especially for his position. If he can focus and put in the work on the defense end…I think he becomes the embodyment of an ‘Avery type guy’.
And his passing and ballhandling along with the fact he can drive it on almost anyone seem to really fit to a glove with Avery’s attack system.
And if he develops a jump shot: It’s over.

‘But he turned the ball over so much in summer league! Trade him!’

by adronaline on Sep 2, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Defense up untill about a week ago was the hallmark

of Avery Johnson’s coaching philosophy, and you read a chapter summary on his offensive philosophy and one of the worse defensive minded players on the team is suddenly only “the embodiment” of Avery’s type of guy.

Check out my signature and read what Avery says about defense. Then think to yourself how much defense TW played last year. The fact of the matter is that Lee made more sense for Avery because he supposedly was a DEFENSE first coach, and Lee was pretty much the only guy who cared enough to dedicate himself to defense in a depressing and losing situation. Avery might indeed bring some defense out of TW, but to imagine that mentally (and the mental is the most important thing here) TW is more an “Avery guy” than Lee is crazy.

As to TW’s playing time, I still am not sure how much playing time he is going to get because there is just as much a chance that Avery will love TW as put him DEEP in the doghouse due to his rather famous attitude towards authority.

"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson

by kv on Sep 2, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

the same attitude...

….that shaped up once authority informed him that he’d be on a bus in the D League if he didn’t get his act together?

The same attitude that responded positively and turned it around in March and April, also winning ROTM for April?

LOL.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Sep 4, 2010 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

….that shaped up once authority informed him that he’d be on a bus in the D League if he didn’t get his act together?

Uh. Did you get that nice little Tweet to Nets officials he did in Summer League? Yeah, great attitude towards authority this guy.

"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson

by kv on Sep 4, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jus how is TW going to respond to this kind of coach talk?

Avery is a good guy. Strong headed, but also coaching material type guy. He can appreciate a strong voice against him. He can fight it out and realize that the guy has his back in the end. TW is not coaching material. He is extremely immature, and does not take conflict from authority well.

It is possible that this relationship can work, but it also is very volatile. The way that TW responds to Avery will be in the context of Avery trying to introduce himself to the team (unlike Avery’s groomed for the position with Dallas). It would seem to me that Avery will have to walk a very thin line with TW, especially as a new coach to a team that is new to each other. There is a chance that he could really do a lot with TW, make use of all his strengths, but there is also an equal chance that TW will put himself in the wrong place with Avery’s authority game.

"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson

by kv on Sep 2, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are making pure assumptions

You do not know Terrence Williams, nor do you know how he will interact with Avery Johnson

What we do know, is that when Johnson pulled Williams to the side and schooled him on keeping his head together when someone fouls him hard, he responded with a ’yes sir".

Your opinions are not facts. End of story.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Sep 4, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

You do not know Terrence Williams, nor do you know how he will interact with Avery Johnson

Which is why I said it is possible the relationship could work. It also, OBVIOUSLY is volatile.

Your opinions aren’t facts either. In fact they aren’t even really opinions, they are just cheering and pom-pom waving. Just stick a player in a Net uniform and he is a great guy and full of potential, and as soon as he isn’t in that uni (witness Lee) he is horrible, and who wanted him anyways. I’m not sure I call that an opinion.

"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson

by kv on Sep 4, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

the idea that he, the only other Net player that is skilled enough to get his own shot off and create for others besides Devin Harris, would be rotting on the pine was just laughable.

its not laughable if he refuses to play defense, or if he challenges Avery’s authority in some way. It would seem laughable that TW’s fine friend Nate Robinson, one of the great gunners of the league, would ever be benched for a month by one of the great gunner coaches in the league, but indeed Nate found himself “rotting on the pine”. TW is not Nate, but Avery is an even bigger task master than D’Antoni.

Further, I think you are selling Farmar short. He I believe will show that he can both create his own shot and also shots for others. I may be wrong, but a lot may be made of him by Avery.

And then the silence and the backtracking that followed once Lee’s crybaby behind got shipped out of here was even more hilarious.

So Lee was a crybaby who played defense. Pretty much all that makes you a good player in Bills’ mind is “Are you a Net player or not”. If you are Net, you are great. if you aren’t, you suck.

"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson

by kv on Sep 2, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

typical garbage

T-Will blah blah blah Nate Robinson blah blah blah

I love how that, with nothing else left to really say, the old “lets lump Williams with Robinson” stuff gets rehashed.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Sep 4, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just pointing out that "laughable" things happen.

And they seem to happen to his best bro who also has had a problem relating to authority. Its not that TW hasn’t brought this suspicion upon himself.

"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson

by kv on Sep 4, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Many posters seem to think that the Nets have been making moves randomly...

I believe Nets management have a plan. They acquired certain players for certain reasons.
That is why when trade speculation arises, I don’t think acquiring players like Anthony is a “no brainer”, for Nets management. If the player don’t fit into the plan maybe they just say thanks but no thanks…

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 2:04 PM EDT reply actions  

i agree

It would be great to get Melo without losing Favors either.

Go Nets!

by BrooNets on Aug 31, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

I don’t mind Harris going, but losing Favors makes me cringe.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Deng and Gibson wouldn’t be bad at all for them.

by strange-brew on Aug 31, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gibson won't be bad, he'll be a great defensive big for years, but that's really all he'll ever be

And he’s already 25.

Deng has 3 more expensive years left after this year. Why would a rebuilding team want that?

by muwu on Aug 31, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why wouldn’t a rebuilding team want 2 quality players (one a legit starter and the other a very good bench player) who are still young ?

by strange-brew on Aug 31, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

having Deng’s large salary might hamper future flexibility, and there’s not a whole lot of potential left there as compared to what someone else like maybe the nets might be offering

by muwu on Aug 31, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Deng’s contract? Nah. He makes a reasonable amount for his worth and they aren’t tied to him for a long period of time anyway. Rebuilding teams need stability too , not just unproven players and picks.

by strange-brew on Aug 31, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

You made my point for me. They don’t have him for a long period of time. Most players prime years are from the ages of 26-29 , and he’s really good as it is even if he doesn’t improve. He actually plays defense and he can rebound and score. He’s a tradeable asset.

by strange-brew on Aug 31, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually

trading Harris and Favors does not work out. We’d have to include The Hump to make the deal work

I’d like to know, if this alleged proposal from NJ is real, which i doubt, how King plans to make up now for the gaping hole we will have at the point as well as basically removing our most athletic big from the roster?

Also, will we be able to sign someone like Al Horford next offseason once Melo’s extension kicks in? If we keep Murph, that means we get some cap space but will Melo’s extension eat that up??

And why would the Nets include a “slew” of draft picks if we are already giving up the #3 pick in this year’s draft??

Lopez being off of the table is just basic common sense. But I’d like to hear everyone’s thoughts on where the team would go if this is the actual trade offer

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's say that this trade proposal is true

Let’s say we trade Favors, Harris, aaand say Ross for Melo. I think that it’s definitely giving up more than you need to. Favors and Murphy would be at least more palatable, Favors and Harris no. Either Harris or Murphy has to be in it to make salaries match. If we’re giving up Harris i’d want the main young player to be lesser, like TWill. If we’re giving up Murphy, then I could concede I higher prize like Favors.

In any case I’d rather sweeten the deal with quantity than quality. I would be quite willing to take Birdman’s 4 remaining years off their hands if they would agree to lesser pieces. TWill+James+Murphy+Hump for Melo and Andersen works. sweeten it with more draft picks than anyone else is offering, and Denver’s got to consider it

by muwu on Aug 31, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean that's the point of accumulating these assets during rebuilding right?

They make fantastic trade chips. That’s often what ends up happening to these young players and draft picks that rebuilding teams get, they eventually get traded away

by muwu on Aug 31, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like...

…your idea about keeping Favors.

I just think that Harris and Favors + picks is overkill. They would need to send us Lawson in return IMO.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Read Jack Handy's Fan Post

http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/8/30/1659488/christmas-comes-10-days-early

It is much more reasonable than giving away both Favors and Harris.

We want to wait until Dec. 15 and include Outlaw instead of Harris.

Denver will wait if they really want Favors.

Besides, Jarvis Hayes should be included in any trade as even Ross has some value to Nets defense.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

this is the problem I have with your December 15th take Jerry, why would Denver want to take on a non expiring deal?

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

They Already Will Have Cap Sapce

And have a ton of expirers.
You know what cap space will get Denver next summer?

Players/contracts like Travis Outlaw.
$7m per year he would be their starting SF where they would have a gaping whole (sound familiar?)

by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 31, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would rather give them Favors and Keep Twill if we have to give up Devin.

by Tim823 on Aug 31, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

This would explain TWill's Summer League explosion......

Split second agressive decision making, always looking to ATTACK and throw down. It would also explain the lack of feeding the post since executing the aforementioned, is instinctual. Once Twill and the rest of the backcourt develops a lil cohesion with DFavors… Man I can’t wait!

by kindofblue on Aug 31, 2010 2:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

No thanks

Don’t want Melo if it means trading our young talent. With our young talent already in place along with all those draft picks, the Nets will be both competitive and inexpensive.

by Doesthishurt on Aug 31, 2010 2:56 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Billy King can show us what he's got now....

Somehow keep Favors out of the deal and I will put you in the Net’s G.M. Hall of Fame personally. Where there’s a T-Will there’s a way…

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

To pull off a deal for Melo, we have to give up either Harris or Murphy

Frankly, I don’t want to give up either of them. I could be convinced to part with Harris, but I think he’ll probably be one of the most improved players under Avery. I don’t want to part with Murphy because he fills one of the biggest needs. Maybe if Melo played defense, I’d be more optimistic.

by Doesthishurt on Aug 31, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree... But you know if Melo is available...

Nets management will do their best to get him. Proky wants his star. More fans in seats, better ratings and more stuff sold. Basketball is a money business first and foremost. Proky pronounced that the Nets will be money makers.

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

In fact if a team is making money but not doing to well in the standings...

they are probably considered a big success overall. If a team is winning but losing money, it’s time to sell… LOL

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't accept that premise. It certainly isn't true if Denver waits until Dec. 15; Denver is giving signs of not rushing. Only the media and sidekicks of Melo seem to be pushing a deal ASAP.

And besides, don’t forget the value of Hump (3.2 million) and Jarvis Hayes (at present, may be worth 4.2 million).

Nets only need to move 12.86 million to get Melo.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really if the Two parties

agree that a deal that includes Murphy will make the Nuggets waive him and sign with the Nets and I doubt he doesn’t re-sign with the Nets if this happens he loves the Nets since his childhood and loves the NY area (he said it himself).

by JJ25 on Aug 31, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or just trade for Hassan Whiteside, since they're basically the same player

Incredible shotblocker, but doesn’t have anything else coupled with a bad attitude and maturity issues

by muwu on Aug 31, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey muwu... Crazy question but what the heck...

Would you trade Favors for Cousins, then trade Lopez for Melo if you had that chance?

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Potential to be the worst defensive frontcourt in the NBA lol

I think Lopez or big men like him are so valuable, I wouldn’t really trade him for Melo. And I still like Favors’ intangibles better than Cousins’ skill, since we kinda got confirmation of Cousins’ attitude when he was still getting into arguments with coaches in summer league and not listening to huddles, just like in college. Jawed with a ref too, just a downright bad display of attitude all around

by muwu on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be too risky for a GM.

I think Denver would take Favors for Melo anyway, and besides, Favors carries more salary that Brook.

Nets could get a lot more that Cousins, for Lopez at this time, but I expect Cousins’ value to go up this season.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was just thinking that if we trade Lopez we would need a center...

Yeah… Cousins did look a lot like Derrick Coleman in the summer league..I heard the Kings have hired a “baby sitter” for him. His ex high school coach or something like that…

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

we also saw Cousins’ immaturity and petulant body language. He jawed incessantly at opposing centers like Greg Stiemsma and Ian Mahinmi, and nagged game officials with impunity. After shooting 45.8 percent over his first three games, Cousins went 9-for-45 from the field in his final three and also saw his rebounding totals sag. When the Kings’ coaching staff gave him instructions during huddles, Cousins pouted and looked away. Whether Cousins’ falloff was a product of poor conditioning, irritability or just self-disgust, one thing is certain: Cousins has more talent than advertised — and it’s going to be more difficult to harness than most of us realized.

by muwu on Aug 31, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

Thats interesting stuff.

Consequences will never be the same.

by NetsMets4Life on Aug 31, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I watch Cousins in summer league and don't accept that biased critique.

I saw Cousins as someone who was very motivated and everytime he made a mistake, tried to figure out how to correct for his error. I don’t expect his coach to have much trouble with him, although there will be plenty if critics waiting for any signs to stomp on him.

Cousins is a winner and his extra “edge” is welcomed by many.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well more than one person saw his cracks in summer league
DeMarcus Cousins started off Summer League with a couple of dominant performances. Then he ran into Joey Dorsey and Dorsey beat him until he wanted to stop playing. Point being, Cousins has a lot of talent, but he is the bully who doesn’t like getting hit himself. And what we saw, was the pouting Cousins which we were treated to at Kentucky a lot of last season. If he ever matures, he can dominate this game, I just don’t know if it will happen

by muwu on Aug 31, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank god we drafted Favors

He started slow, finished strong, and has a great attitude(even despite being contacted by his father right before the summer league games began, which had to have messed with his head).

Cousins started fast, finished terribly, and his attitude is horrible. He wouldn’t last around here with Johnson and Mitchell kicking the crap out of him.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cousins and Coleman. Both DC's...

Guys that will get by on their size and talent but never really give 100% in other areas…

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Derrick could have been...

….one of the best PF’s to ever play, if he gave a damn about basketball.

At least he went broke while trying to help out his hometown, from what i’ve read.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd

not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.

by John at the Jersey Shore on Aug 31, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope

Wall
TWill
Anthony
Murphy
Lopez

by Zartan on Aug 31, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Blech

I cant hear the name “John Wall” without feeling depressed.

Consequences will never be the same.

by NetsMets4Life on Aug 31, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

So before SWat's career is over he will have travelled all over the world - China, Puerto Rico, Israel (and Britain) - and will be an expert on Women of the World.

If only he can learn to pronounce 5 words in each country he has played in? He will have a head start in Israel if someone teaches him the word for Hello/Good Bye/Peace.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds a lot like our other PF Yi...

Yi has been with three teams in four years and does play internationally in his spare time..

As for the ladies, Yi is considered the “Muscle Devil” also.. wink.. wink…

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahahahh

“spare” time?

The Chinese Government says otherwise.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bill Bradley - Sacramento Bee...

“If there’s smoke, should there be a three-alarm blaze? According to a report making the rounds on the Internet, the Kings are among three teams favored to trade for Nuggets superstar forward Carmelo Anthony. If that seems odd, then take a look at the other two rumored favorites: The Timberwolves and the Nets. While the Nets make sense, the Kings and Wolves don’t fit because Anthony has been talking about leaving Denver for a high-profile East Coast team (i.e., the New York Knicks)”.

  • He says the Nets make the most sense. I’m getting real worried… LOL

by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 3:33 PM EDT reply actions  

That was a list compiled by Denver, not by Melo.

You are correct that only the Nets are on both the Denver and Melo list.

And what really counts is if Denver truly wants to get Favors. They would be at the mercy of the Nets, in that case, and would wait until Dec. 15 and take Outlaw.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that they can afford to do so

Keeping a malcontent of his stature and with his maturity issues is a big risk.

Faking a migraine could be light compared to how problematic Carmelo could possibly become.

I wouldn’t put it past Carmelo if he flat out quit on the Nuggets in the same manner that VC did to the Raptors.

Actually, him doing something that could work in our favor. But then you always have to be wary…it’s sort of like marrying the girl that cheated on her husband with you.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

argh

“something like that”

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

So his value goes down if he "quits" on Denver. Thats good.

Meanwhile, Denver is trying to act like there is no hurry and are still optimistic. They may give him the “keys to the city” before long.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Murphy as cap relief, TWill or DJames as their new sf, Ross (another expiring contract) 2 first rounders , but we keep the GS one, if they need the deal sweetened a little than bring it out and exchange it for one of our picks back.

by Benl1 on Aug 31, 2010 3:54 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm not giving Murphy as Filler, when it may not be necessary and Denver wouldn't demand him.

I’m hoping Murphy is re-signed for about 21 million over 3 years (partially guaranteed 4th year), if he plays well this season.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I posted this earlier. This is what I'd do.

If the Nuggets want Harris and Favors I do this:
Harris
Favors
Picks
3 million
 
for

Anthony
Lawson

My preference would be swap Favors with Humphries and Denver’s choice of Williams or James.

Harris
Humphries
Williams OR James
Picks
3 million

for

Anthony
Lawson.

Consequences will never be the same.

by NetsMets4Life on Aug 31, 2010 3:54 PM EDT reply actions  

latter

the trade would be ideal for me.

by Zartan on Aug 31, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or if they arent interested in the latter deal and want more

Harris
Murphy
Williams OR James
Picks
3 million

Though I dont really feel very good about this deal. It is what it is.

Consequences will never be the same.

by NetsMets4Life on Aug 31, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who says that Denver wants Harris, as long as they have Billips?

They would have to deal with moving Billips in a separate deal.

Only the writers talk about moving Harris, with no evidence.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

So then it makes more sense for Denver to just keep Billups and Lawson all this season and then buy out Billups at end of season.

Then move Lawson to starting position and look for a backup next summer.

If anything, Nuggets should want to wait until Dec. and get someone like Farmar in deal from Nets.

by jerry25 on Aug 31, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Finally something not Melo related

This was nice…definitely better than reading my science textbook.

Avery is going to be very tough on Harris and Twill…

Murphy, Lopez and Outlaw will only need to wait for what Harris and Twill want to do with the ball.

"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.

by Andy. on Aug 31, 2010 4:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

We don't need no stinkin' Superstar

Don’t like Melo’s usage. Wade, Kobe, and LBJ all average over 5 assists a game. Melo doesn’t set up his teammates consistently enough. This gets even worse at crunch time.
Sounds like Avery’s offense is designed for a more balanced offense, based on ball movement – think 72-73 Knicks. 28 pts on 21 shots a game? Maybe we should just let some of our guys develop into guys who can get you 14 pts on 10.5 shots per game. I like the balance and depth of the team we have. Let the games begin, and we will see what we have.

Clutch – Let’s see what happens with an offense designed to score. Last years offense was designed to .. win the lottery!

by 10WinsOrBust on Aug 31, 2010 10:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Don’t like Melo’s usage. Wade, Kobe, and LBJ all average over 5 assists a game. Melo doesn’t set up his teammates consistently enough. This gets even worse at crunch time.

exactly.

by Andres B on Sep 1, 2010 5:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Nets.....

Will win the championship this year…..

by NetFan48 on Aug 31, 2010 10:55 PM EDT reply actions  

We might not win a championship this year, but, I am very excited about the prospects of going deep into the playoffs! No one thought we could make it to the Finals the first year Kidd came into town. That offseason had a very similar feel to this one. There was a feeling of excitement, but, a bunch of parts put together not knowing what to expect. We had picked up Todd McCullough, made the trade for rookies RJ and Jason Collins, first year with Kidd, second year with K-mart, a young nucleus of Van Horn, Kittles and Lucious and we had just come off a horrible season. I am just saying you never know! I love Avery as the coach. He has to instill that tenacious defense and hustle that the 2001-2002 team had. I love the players we kept from last year, Brook, Terrence, Devin and Humphries. We drafted very capable studs in Favors and Damion James. I always loved Outlaw on Portland. We steal a young sharp shooter in Morrow and a championship expeienced young backup pg in Farmar. To top it off we trade for a legit power forward in Murphy. WOW! We did not hit the homerun in free agency, however, you can see I am very excited about the upcoming season! Like Kidd once said in his first season as a NET, why not 41 wins or more?

LETS GO NETS!

by JustinNJ on Aug 31, 2010 11:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Kidd = Hall of Famer

there is no one like Kidd on the Nets roster or in the trade rumors.

Kidd had the unique ability to make everyone better, to make everyone believe they were better, to make a team be better than the sum of its parts.

by Net Income on Aug 31, 2010 11:54 PM EDT reply actions  

THIS...

But hopefully we will get a nice chemistry going amongst all the players….This way we won’t have to depend so heavily on just one player being stopped and causing the whole team to shut down like San Antonio did to JKIDD……

by NetFan48 on Sep 1, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

He likely ain’t no Kidd, but he is exactly the kind of move in the right direction.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Sep 1, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd sure rather get rubio than melo; more than cp3 too

cp3 has shown more but he’s old and has had serious injuries

by PigDaddy3 on Sep 2, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

due to cost though.

"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson

by kv on Sep 2, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kidd had the unique ability to make everyone better, to make everyone believe they were better, to make a team be better than the sum of its parts.

100%

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Sep 1, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post

This makes me think that the team as currently constructed may work out better for AJs system that if we made any moves to land THE NAME

by adronaline on Sep 2, 2010 9:37 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

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