How Clutch Will the Nets Be?
by Net Income on Aug 31, 2010 8:40 AM EDT
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PrintIt might surprise fans to hear that the Nets lost their best "clutch" performer in the off-season, but that's what the 2009-10 clutch stats from 82games.com shows. According to their numbers, Yi Jianlian ranked first among the Nets--and 65th in the league--last season in clutch scoring.
Yi also ranked first on the Nets--and 18th in the league--in clutch rebounding. "Clutch" is defined by 82games as "4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points."
After Yi, the Nets top clutch scorers last season were Devin Harris, at 70th and Brook Lopez, at 109th. Courtney Lee ranked 125th. Of the new Nets, Anthony Morrow was tops at 84th, but Troy Murphy was way down at 165th. Murphy was the 22nd best clutch rebounder. Surprisingly, Morrow shot only 15.4% from three during crunchtime.
If you're interested in where Carmelo Anthony ranked, he was 4th in scoring, 63rd in rebounding, 76th in field goal percentage at 42.7%. In comparison, Morrow shot 37.9%; Lopez 32.1%; Harris 28.9% and Murphy 26.7%. Neither Travis Outlaw nor Jordan Farmar had enough clutch minutes to make the list...although Outlaw is normally among the NBA's best fourth quarter scorers.
- Sortable NBA Player Clutch stats - 82games.com
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Stats! Yi 65th! Give me a break! Does it rank turnovers? Defensive ineptitude? Were these his stats in those meaningless games against the 12th man on the team? I truly doubt that the “loss” of Yi will hurt our effectiveness in the 4th. Kiki is not here to feed him the ball.
rather than obsess (AGAIN) over Yi
you might want to consider what the stats say about the lack of a go-to scorer on the roster.
Get it? THAT is the point.
Yi’s gone, by the way.
yeah
the lack of a go to guy is a problem
Maybe we can start getting Brook the ball in the 4th a lot more and that will change?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
It's a BIG problem
and it was a big problem last season…along with a slew of other issues.
Other than Harris, none of the current Nets have any experience taking the big shot.
and the thing about Harris is that
his range isn’t that great, so relying on him to take the big shot isn’t a good idea
makes you miss Vince Carter a little, huh? Well, Vince from two years ago, who had the cajones to take a three from nearly halfcourt with 3 secs left, and nailing it ice cold.
yeah, how long will it take for us to rip denver off?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
i wonder what Brook's ppg in 4th qtrs were last season?
I would like to see Avery make an effort to have the team get him the rock in the post, and I’d like to see Brook make an effort to establish proper position and demand the ball. It’s year 3, time to start barking at people and throwing the lumber around in the paint.
I will throw fits inside of the Pru if I see Brook getting pushed out to the fouline. Nothing ticks me off about Brook more than that. Bang in the paint, get your position, catch the ball, and bust the defender’s you know what.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully the coaches are addressing that very issue of Brook positioning himself in the paint.
Lopez has all the tools to be a Star he just needs the proper coaching and mindset to put it all together.
exactly
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
I hope Brook is working on creating separation between he and his man so our guards can feed him the ball in the post. That’s been a problem the past couple years.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
exactly
all good points.
Something to watch for from Brook this season. The coaching staff will beat this into him.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe we can start getting Brook the ball in the 4th a lot more and that will change?
Yeah, if we could feed the ball to one of the worst clutch performers in the league more, that would be great.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Good morning, you beam of sunshine you
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Forgive me if I pour a tiny drop of logic and reasoning upon nonsense.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
before you start being an absolute, condescending jerk
Your “logic and reasoning” adding little to the discussion, you were just being your swarmy, smug usual self.
It was an idea, seeing that things could be different this year with Brook not being double teamed as aggressively as he was last year now that we have more shooting talent around him.
Thanks for your two cents though.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
"added"
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
typo
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
His problem is he forces shots. There is no excuse for that. The only shred of hope I can cling onto for Brook is hopefully Avery wont stand for that crap.
Now that I think about it
you’re right about the forced shots.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
with everyone sucking at the perimeter last year
i understand why brook forced some shots
Why respond?
he’s obviously an 11 year old kid that gets weird pleasure’s out of debating Male BLoggers
erm...
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 31, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What a surprise
Just like I said, so predictable.. (thus it’s a shtick)
1. Exaggerating the negative. Brook is slightly below average among clutch scoring, far from the worst. Meanwhile his 80% FT shooting is hardly un-clutch
2. On here to argue or point out someone is wrong
3. No suggestions on who they should go to
4. Fighting the “pom pom wavers”!
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 31, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I see you shticking your shtick too!! Nice.
Exaggerating the negative. Brook is slightly below average among clutch scoring, far from the worst. Meanwhile his 80% FT shooting is hardly un-clutch
His +/- both offense and defense is an absolutely HORRIBLE number, with only a few players on the entire list below him.
On here to argue or point out someone is wrong
I guess you are only on here to point out that I am wrong.
But I guess I should not have pointed out that while Net Income calls Yi the Nets best clutch performer, it would be nice to mention that he only shot 21% from the field, which is among the worst percentages in the league.
No suggestions on who they should go to
I obviously don’t think they should go to dumping the ball into Lopez. Where they should “go” is to the new players on the team, hopefully, Outlaw who has a history of 4th quarter performance, and ball movement.
Fighting the "pom pom wavers"!
Fighting the people that can’t have a balanced communication. When the stats are horrible, admit it. Look at it. Don’t pretend that they aren’t there. I commend Net Income for this post. Most Net fans don’t want to admit the facts.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
We were 12-70.
Of course his +/- numbers are going to be low when the team as a whole lost 70 games. If you watched any games last season, you would’ve seen that very few of Kiki’s “plays” were run through Brook. All these stats will be dramatically different with a real team and real coaching in place, compared to last year’s debacle.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Aug 31, 2010 11:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
GASP!
Logic!
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course his +/- numbers are going to be low when the team as a whole lost 70 games.
Sure. 100%. But the idea that NONE of this poor quality of play was due to HIS level of skill, his inability to raise the play of other players, his inability to become a pressure scorer, well, this seems to be an oversight. Yes, there are many factors that lead to this record, but ONE of them had to be Lopez as well.
And yes, the stats will be different, but it is at least thinking about that the overall play of the team, in general minutes (not crunch minutes) was actually WORSE in net +/- points when Lopez was on the floor. I would not give him the shoulder of the blame, but he does not get “credit” either for being a great player surrounded by awfulness. The fact is that he did not raise the level of his team, and really isn’t likely the franchise-like player many Net fans hope for.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Sep 1, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
My shtick?
I actually comment in many threads and I actually don’t try to argue with people non-stop or only accentuate the negative.
I make suggestions (trade proposals or other opinions)
May make negative comments, may make positive comments
etc…
I’m not one a trick poster like you who relishes his reputation as the self proclaimed “realist” who thinks he is so much more objective and intelligent than others.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 31, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
a 'realist'
that’s a joke, right?
Realists don’t try to pass off their opinions as facts.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I find you to have a shtick.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Sep 1, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yet
Yahoo has him rated as the #3 center in the NBA, and I’m sure that basketball experts across the board would scoff at your assessment of Brook being “soft” or “horrible”.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You continually repeat this lie that I called him “soft” when I explicitly refused to use that term. As for him being horrible as a center, I have already called him one of the best young centers in the league.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Sep 1, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd
He calls the idea of feeding the ball to Brook, our best player, in the 4th qtr, “nonsense”, but offers little else in the way of this discussion. As usual.
kv’s sole purpose on here is to be as negative as possible, use his own opinions as “facts”, and use stats in the most dishonest was as possible to prove a “point”, if he ever has one besides the team sucks.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I got the picture off of your mother's box
which box i’m talking about, take a guess.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
holy crap i lol'd
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 31, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed... Mr. Bill crossed the line with that one...
But we are all Net mothers… I mean brothers when the opening bell rings a month from now. You will be a bigger man 3ptChucker if you let it pass. Meanwhile Mr. $$$ should apologize.
Play nice boys…
Mike
I’ll apologize to the board because that did cross the line, but I’m not apologizing to 3ptchucker.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
you have to be kidding me
you asked
did your g/f get this for you
and I responded in kind. Don’t take shots at me randomly and then get sensitive when stuff gets tossed back in your face.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Usual Bills rudeness.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Sep 1, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He calls the idea of feeding the ball to Brook, our best player, in the 4th qtr, "nonsense", but offers little else in the way of this discussion. As usual.
kv’s sole purpose on here is to be as negative as possible, use his own opinions as "facts", and use stats in the most dishonest was as possible to prove a "point", if he ever has one besides the team sucks.
Actually not. It is to look for – and insist upon – balanced and thoughtful analysis. For instance you, after looking at the article/data went from
Maybe we can start getting Brook the ball in the 4th a lot more and that will change?
you’re right about the forced shots.
Where is the thought in the first reaction. Yeah, maybe we should just feed the ball more and more to Lopez. The point of my response to you was, TAKE A STEP back and think about it. Lopez was pretty bad last year too. Yeah, there were not a ton of plays for him, but no, he also didn’t perform well, let’s not have a whole “Lopez is a franchise player” thought about the future. At least you admit, after some THOUGHT, that Lopez has a problem forcing shots. Now is a shot-forcing guy the guy you just want to dump endless action towards in crutch time. THINK about what you are saying. He might have more operating room, but if he has a problem of forcing shots, and he isn’t very good at getting to the line, and he doesn’t pass all that well out of the post, dumping the ball into him over and over isn’t really the answer either.
I’m not saying he can’t be a better player in the future, but the smart response to the article and the data isn’t really “Let’s hope that a ton more plays are run for Lopez”. He isn’t that kind of player yet. The smart response is thinking about how the addition of new players and outside shooting with allow the Nets to function WITHOUT a proper go-to guy in crunch time. They do not have that kind of guy.
My posts here are almost ALWAYS in response to one-sided, relatively thoughtless comments, comments that never express both sides, your worries and your hopes. Why Bills could you not have said something like,
“Lopez forces up shots sometimes, but I really think that Avery can get a hold of that and he’ll run a lot more plays for him in crunch time.” If you had said something like that, something that showed that you were THINKING and not just cheering, that you were measuring the downside of the past, but thinking positively about the future, I would not have jumped in. I only supplied the part you left out, the part that you (and many others) don’t seem to want to think about.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Sep 1, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Brook is slightly below average among clutch scoring, far from the worst. Meanwhile his 80% FT shooting is hardly un-clutch
He actually shot 64% in “clutch” time situations. Am I a big rain on your parade to point this out? Should I just let you go on believing that 80 FT% reveals that Lopez is a super clutch player? Or should I point out that while the percentage is nice enough for a Center, in fact pretty good, it does not necessarily SHOW that he is clutch, because in his clutch minute situations his % actually dropped 17%? Is this just too boo-hoo for you?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Sep 1, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe with Brook not getting double teamed now that we have more options...
Brook will be more clutch in the 4th quarter. If Yi was our clutch player down the stectch that only tells you that we had no other options, because teams could just double on Brook down low.
Someone......
who finally gets the chance will emerge as a goto scorer….I’m not worried about that stat….
Slow News Day?
That article was a joke. Yi clutch?! I wonder how much that guy won on a dare to put that in the article. Needed that laugh. Also that article doesn’t prove anything about a go-to scorer. I agree the Nets need one don’t get me wrong, but, the Nets weren’t in enough close games last year to even judge them on that. Yi was hurt a good portion of the year so when was he actually clutch? Harris, Brook and even T-Will did more “clutch” things last season as any Nets fan who watched every game would know.
Yawn Wake me when their is more Melo news….
by Christopher Manchesi on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 AM EDT reply actions
i'm so sorry
to ruin your morning. Stats show what the stats show and if you want to remain obsessed with Yi, go right ahead…and ignore the reality that there is not a go-to scorer on the Nets.
Okay, deal with that.
You're ruining our fantasy.
We’re more than happy by dumping all the negatives on Yi and shipping him away with FREE MONEY. Thinking is not in the agreement with fans.
You have to realize, there are still people here that want to have a Kidd, VC, RJ, Kmart team. However, they want to keep Twill, because he’s our “lebron”.
I don't think the point is about Yi
it’s the fact that we have no go to guy that can take the last shot. We can rely on Devin, but the paint will get packed when we go to ISO and they’ll force Devin to pass it out to Morrow or Outlaw…which isn’t a bad thing.
Devin also has his signature ankle snapping cross over into a quick pull up move.
I’m just trying to picture what we’d do in the closing seconds and down 2 or 1 point. Devin also is a bad decision maker but we’ll have to live with him as the break down guy, unless a light goes off inside of Terrence’s head.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Devin also is a bad decision maker but we’ll have to live with him as the break down guy, unless a light goes off inside of Terrence’s head.
If TW becomes your PG (de facto) at crunch time, he should be your PG most of the time.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Um, and your point is?
I was talking about Devin functioning as a Go to guy in the 4th.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that in the “4th quarter” Devin made some poor choices, but in the last few tics of the game, he makes good ones. Could you agree on that? That is a big difference to me. If we can just eliminate his pull up jumpers early in the shot clock in the 4th, we will be all set.
In the remaining tics, I wouldnt want it in anyone elses hands quite honestly. I would like him to drive to the hoop, which he is one of the best in the league at, draw contact or dish.
I agree with you 100% on this
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, but I won't take the time to read this story if someone is trying to convince me that Yi was clutch.
Watching with my eyes obviously tells more that those statistics.
I only remember Yi hitting 1 clutch FT all last year.
Yi was real clutch when he got injured early against Boston and Nets won game!
Hump was way more clutch than Yi except Kiki is responsible for trying to play Yi during clutch moments in the 4th quarter instead of putting Hump in game.
We were saying for most of the 2nd half of year that Kiki was minipulating Yi’s minutes to run up stats. It appears Kiki may have succeeded.
subtlety is not a strong point here
does anyone get that if statistics show Yi to be the top clutch performer and they do what that means?
I guess not.
Why allow commenting if you're just going to talk down to anybody with opinions different from your own?
by JohnFromLongIsland on Aug 31, 2010 10:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I think that his point is that the Nets lack a legit go to scorer, not to big up Yi
anyone clearly can see that Yi wasn’t great, period.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Agreed about NI sometimes talking down to others.
Yi can go clutch my bag of chips!
LETS GO NETS!
by JustinNJ on Aug 31, 2010 9:19 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I LOL'ed at the thought...
But be careful, criticizing Yi gets you branded as “obsessed”…
by JohnFromLongIsland on Aug 31, 2010 10:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah,
Yi is so awesome. Glad you noticed, not like that bum Ryan Anderson, Rotting on the bench.
Terrence Williams is clutch
One game that comes to mind is that Spurs game we won
Yes, the stars in the league are clutch! We do not have a star as of yet. Brook, Favors and/or Terrence have the abilities to eventually be stars. Devin is a nice player, but, not a star. So, indeed, we have the makings of a good team (much better than last season), but, we don’t have a star! I, however, kind of like what we have put together on paper, hopefully, we can translate the names into a playoff “team”.
LETS GO NETS!
Brook yes
the others are wait and see…and considering how bad TWill’s shot selection can be, that doesn’t bode well for him being clutch.
He got better towards the end of the season
He is the only player who can get where he wants to on the court so physically gifted, his shot will get better, a lot of those games had T-wills imprint on them, I think him being clutch doesn’t mean just scoring but making the pass and getting a key rebound.
In more important news, I noticed that the "NBA Salaries" under "Resources" on the home page is more than 1 year out of date.
There is a new site in order to get the lastest NBA salaries (dated 8/4/10):
http://www.storytellerscontracts.com/
What is important and puzzling is that it shows a 6.2 million cap hold on Josh Boone,
but in regards to Jarvis Hayes it just says (FA rights assumed to have been renounced).
Also, Josh Boone is still listed on HoopsHype salaries (for his qualifying offer), but no mention of Jarvis Hayes:
And HoopsHype is is considered “current”.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm
Which ever beat reporter has access to Bobby Marks should be able to clear this up. So far, all we were told is that the rights to Hayes haven’t been renounced.
will adjust
but as of the day before the Murphy trade, the Nets had not yet renounced Hayes Bird Rights.
All the others have had their rights renounced.
most pointless stat of all time?
i think so
by slydaaave on Aug 31, 2010 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Terrence Williams
can step up and be the Nets playmaker down the stretch. He helped lead us to a few of our wins last year. You look at a guy like Brandon Jennings who was a poor shooter last year but yet he averaged 34.1 clutch points as well as a clutch plus/minus of plus 50. If you have that desire to be a star you cant be afraid of making big plays
His shot selection improved as the year progressed and when you are the only player on the floor that has the ability to create your own shot, you may feel compelled to take more shots than you may want.
by Chris2 on Aug 31, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I expect T-Will's shot selection to vastly improve under AJ..
T-Will seems to be getting it. Slowly but surely. Only his second year. Loads of talent, just has to make smarter decisions and improve shooting. Lets see what AJ does with this potential “star” talent.
I expect that Avery will have a leash on Williams(and Harris)
Bad shot selection will not be tolerated.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
"T-Will's shot selection to vastly improve under AJ"
This is a future development we’re predicting. Just to clarify. As of last year when he turned it on, and as of the SL, T Will and good shot selection had never met each other. TWill will be a star in the NBA if he (1) corrects shot selection (2) HITS more shots other than dunks, and (3) stops passing the ball to empty spots on the floor.
He’s a mix of pretty bad defects and quite decent strong areas — this is hopeful. HE DIDNT IMPROVE YET IN THESE 3 AREAS. Cmon Terrence!
well it is his second year
and I did like some of the passing that I saw from him in the SL(shot selection was awful, agreed).
I forgot who posted it, but there was a Damion James highlight tape from SL posted on here. Guess who the majority of his assisted scores came from in those clips?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The more I learn about Melo...
The less I like… I think he’s more interested in being a Hollywood star along with his wife. They say he needs to take 30 shots to get 30 points. If he comes cheap yeah, I guess, but no way do I make him the face of this franchise. Speaking of faces, he may be facing charges over that twitter bounty stunt. What a twit if he actually did that.
This.
Just another classless brat… Anybody that condones violence against people who cooperate with police doesn’t deserve the fame he’s been bestowed, and I don’t want him on the Nets. He’s not worth what we’d have to give up. I hope the Rockets can put together a sick package for him.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Aug 31, 2010 10:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
lebron james
is just that ridiculous at crunch time, now i think its time to panic
LeLiar.....
got crunched in the playoffs…..
Everybody up in arms before even using their brains...
It might be bacause we don’t have a go to scorer like NetIncome said…
It might also be that teams consider Yi the least dangerous so he gets the least coverage…
Use your brains and you might think of some more…
I’d like to see the clutch numbers for TWill’s last couple of months extrapolated over an 82 game season. He showed potential as a 4th quarter scorer. He is a guy that can get into the lane and rise up for clean looks or kick it out to one of our potentially deadly three point shooters. Once he learns how to draw contact for foul shots I think he will be better in these 4th quarter situations. We also have to establish Brook as a go to player in the 4th quarter.
by Chris2 on Aug 31, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The new guys are coming from different teams.
It might be a crazy idea, but MAYBE the new guys were so low because they weren’t the main scoring options behind the likes of Kobe, Gasol, Roy, Granger, and Monta Ellis. MAYBE Morrow with that great shooting %, or Portland’s former “Mr. Fourth Quarter” will put that to good use in Avery’s system where they will play more prominent roles than they have on the past.
None of us knows that we don’t have a “clutch scorer” yet until we see this new team play for a new coach.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Aug 31, 2010 10:24 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
This year we should have more weapons at are disposal...
Murphy, Outlaw, Morrow, are not shy about taking “clutch” shots…
If we have Lopez, Harris, Murphy and Outlaw all on the court at crunch time, I expect someone will step up.
Lol @ Net Income
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I was just saying I don’t agree with the article and I do agree we need a go to scorer. Missed your morning coffee?
by Christopher Manchesi on Aug 31, 2010 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Everyone is forgetting one very very very important fact
HOW MANY TIMES WHERE WE IN CRUNCH TIME! Crunch time is being within 5 pts with 5 minutes left! and when we were we had Coach S.F.B pushing it into the , “NEXT DIRK!”. If we had crunch time more often with a semi-decent coach these stats would be different. I wonder what these stats showed for the previous year when we had less injuries and a better coach.
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Aug 31, 2010 10:31 AM EDT reply actions
Thnaks Mike
I think too often in these posts a lot of us ( I include myself at times) go into Panic mode without evaluatiing the situation. Panic mode is for people like Kiki (see K-Mart he first), and Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhnnnnnn (see whatever the mish mosh that is creating in Minn)
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Aug 31, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
HOW MANY TIMES WHERE WE IN CRUNCH TIME! Crunch time is being within 5 pts with 5 minutes left!
More than you might think. Lebron James spent 151 minutes under these conditions Diaw was top at 202), Lopez 101 minutes. A comparison might be Ginobili at 105 minutes.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Lebron is actually agreat comparison
The cavs were blowing teams out left and right. We were being blown out left and right. We were in some close games in the begining when we had 7 players and a chair on the team, with Frank (who causes players to play over their heads) and even though (I’m not sure of this sinc eI’m at work and don’t have the tim eto do the math) we played more games for kiki, I think we may have had a higher percentage of cunch time games with Lfrank
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Aug 31, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
101 minutes in clutch time well within the heart of the data.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
and Lebro9n was controlling the ball at the time.
His stats are supposed to be better
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Aug 31, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
true.
all I’m syaing is that the ranking of Yi above Brook and Harris is skewed.
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Aug 31, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Completely. But its “skewed” because Net Income neglected to state that Yi shot only 21% from the field. Yi was horrible.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Yi shot .403 fg last year...
For a seven footer that is horrid. In comparison Murphy shot .472.
Murphy > Yi. Most anybody, except Boone, > Yi.
And I was a big Yi supporter up until near the end when it back obvious that Yi’s is one step behind when out on the court. Kiki was always talking about how he was hoping the “light” would go on for Yi. It never did.
What made me change my mind about Yi?
He was touted as a big man that could shoot. His NBA career FG% is .402. I was hoping like Kiki, that given time he would start to get it. He never seemed to progress. One step forward, one step back.
He also seemed to get injured every time he was showing some promise. Add it all up and I just threw in the towel on Yi making it as a starting PF. Maybe he is better suited coming off the bench. I wish him well…
also
Just because brook was on the floor doesn’t mean that they ran plays for him. There is one ball and five players on the floor at any given time. Don’t forget, Yi was kiki’s golden goose. To bad he never split him open to find the gold.
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Aug 31, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
According to their numbers, Yi Jianlian ranked first among the Nets—and 65th in the league—last season in clutch scoring. He also ranked first on the Nets—and 18th in the league—in clutch rebounding…
…After Yi, the Nets top clutch scorers last season were Devin Harris, at 70th and Brook Lopez, at 109th. Courtney Lee ranked 125th. Of the new Nets, Anthony Morrow was tops at 84th, but Troy Murphy was way down at 165th. Murphy was the 22nd best clutch rebounder. Surprisingly, Morrow shot only 15.4% from three during crunchtime.
I’m not sure that you are reading, or I might say describing the numbers right. While it is technically correct that Yi was their “top scorer” in terms of points, he shot an incredible 21% to do so. Only three players of the 180+ that qualified shot worse.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
i believe my statement is accurate
Also you will note that rather than list everyone’s shooting percentage last year, I only listed those who will return and those who are joining the team.
I did not say your statement was inaccurate. I suggested that it was misleading, and that you had missed a rather important fact.
It might surprise fans to hear that the Nets lost their best “clutch” performer in the off-season,
In fact it was extremely misleading. How could the Nets’ “best” clutch performer be someone who shot 21% from the field, among the worst of all clutch performers in the league?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 31, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
NI is notoriously misleading. He selectively uses phrases and data to promote his viewpoint
NI wields a lot of info around, but I would not consider him objective.
So you think
Net Income has a secret agenda to promulgate the view that we should have built around Yi?
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
yeah
I’m not seeing where you guys are trying to go with this one. I don’t think that he was trying to imply that Yi was some kind of go to clutch scorer for the Nets, he was using the numbers to show that the Nets do not have a go to scorer, PERIOD.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree.
He just missed one stat line, Yi’s shooting percentage. He was shocked, no doubt at the production, and ran with it. We all miss stat lines.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Sep 1, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It NI is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key.
Maybe NI is just pulling your chain…
We Get it!
NI, we get it! We’ve gotten it since VC left! Ever since Kidd left. We do not have a star or a cold blooded assassin. The Yi thing is a joke and the joke is on us. Outlaw is probably our best and that says much. I really do not appreciate your insults, though, as it sets a nasty tone. Too many times you, and others, pick on one small aspect of a post and knit pick it to make someone look stupid. Why? Are we here to insult each other or is this a conversation? My post was meant to be funny and meant to mock statistics that really are meaningless or difficult to asses. Sometimes, you know a clutch performer by watching, not by using stats. My post was also mocking Kiki for feeding Yi so much. Yes, I harped on Yi because he was so painful to watch and seemed to me to represent all that was wrong with our approach the last few years. Sorry. But, please, the insults so early in the morning are hard to take! (Read for tone, dude)
by oman8 on Aug 31, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Many of us are from New Jersey, that's why
To me, I find N.I.‘s tone funny rather than insulting. We New Jersey-bred people are just hard wired this way. Some people find our attitude insulting — to us, it’s just building comraderie…and it’s commonplace. It’s a sign of respect for one of us to adress someone that way — a real sign of disrepect would be to ignore your post altogether. Then you would know a person really doesn’t care for you.
Just my perspective.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Yup
when I went to school in Boston, they all asked me if I was from Jersey. I would ask them if I had an accent they’d so, “no because your a GD Jerk!” Our brains are wired different. That’s a good thing
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Aug 31, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Outlaw
I think i may have read somewhere that Outlaw was known for taking and making big shots. I never really saw the guy play, but hopefully he can be a go-to guy for us. I have a feeling Morrow will be clutch.
Outlaw was nicknamed Mr. 4th Quarter when he was with Portland...
I anxious to see what this 25 year old veteran can do with starters minutes…
Yes, Im sure we can expect good play out of Outlaw during the 4th
Like you said, in Portland he was “Mr 4th Quarter.”
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 31, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
At crunch time last year, we did not have anybody who could keep defenses honest...
We had no real 3pt threat, and our guards were not the best of shooters anyway. With no real SF or PF, what you would expect to happen… happened. 12-70…
Not to mention we have a man named Avery Johnson running the squad.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 31, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
You get the feeling that AJ don't like losing?
He has the best winning % of any NBA coach in history and I bet he is not going to lose that honor without a heck of a fight.
This.
Im extremely excited to see where he will take this team. And I completely agree, he won’t just sit there and take losses. He wants to win and he wants to win as much as possible. Let’s see where his winning percentage heads now.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 31, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we all agree
that we have very few clutch performers and, come crunch time, we should anticipate our guys tightening up and turning to Avery to guide them through it? There will be some growing pains early in the season, that’s for sure, especially given our early season schedule.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Huh... Most of this team has not played one minute together...
I’m expecting players like Outlaw, Murphy, Farmar, Morrow to come out very confident and strut their stuff early on. These players were obtained not just for their talent but for their character and confident attitude. You can listen to all the pessimists, with their gloom and doom, “woe is me” talk, but that’s too easy for me. I’m taking the high road with this team. I’m expecting very pleasant surprises in store. Lets go Nets…
I dont think we can agree
Outlaw can be that performer. and with the floor opening up Lopez numbers can imporve alot in crunch time
Imo this isn't about how "clutch" Yi was.
It’s about how the “3rd best center in the league” is not clutch. The fact that Lopez was double teamed so often was because he had few options. His teammates couldn’t hit a shot, he is very slow to react to the double team and his post moves are limited. If I was Proky I would hire the best big man coach around. Between Lopez and Favors there’s a lot of coaching to be done. I think James will end up being our go to scorer if he is not traded. Also, TWill shot selection is NOT his problem. This guy is the best player on the team at creating his own shot and it’s usually a good one. How many times has he beat his man off the dribble, got to the rim and threw one off the backboard only to miss. His problem is he has no touch. He also is just as likely to make a great pass as make a bad one so his PG future is not promising. He should be a SG for his ability to do everything but shoot as long as we have Harris who as a PG is a better shooter. Between Avery’s ability to teach D and TWill athleticism, he could be one off the best small defenders in the NBA.
T-Will's floaters
make my hair turn gray
I don’t want to see him throw up another one in the lane, period
dunk the damn ball down someone’s throat
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Lopez and Harris alone haver never been clutch. They are considered second tier clutch scoers in their years in the NBA.
The one year, devo’s all star year, he showed off his clutch shooting ability down the stretch. But that year, what was he? second freakin tier, behind who? the guy who time and time again made me feel proud of being a Net fan. Vince Carter.
This year, under his mentor and with a plethora of outstanding coaches on the sideline, Lopez, and more importantly Harris should become better clutch players.
I see Outlaw as a reliable fourth quarter guy and i see Morrows ability to stretch the floor opening up some slahing, cutting, and dishing oppurtunites.
Murphy can become vital in the pick and pop game. Harris, murphy, and lopez become a trio thats nearly untoppable in late game situations with Devins perntration ability, Murphy’s shooting and picks, and Lopez’s big body on the inside.
And then theres the guy who i think is our go to fourth quarter guy: Terrence Williams. Ive said it for a while now, i think Terrence is a 20/7/6 guy in this league, if he keeps a good attitude. His ability is to cut, attack, and get ahead on the fatbreak become key late in the game. He also has point guard like court vision and can feed guys like Morrow and Outlaw. He can do everything for us, if he develops jumpshot (just look at LeBron and iggy)
All in all,this game is not about clutch players, its about clutch teams as a whole
Yeah... Now your talking...
Sometimes bad players can look good on bad teams. Sometimes good players (Lopez,Harris) can look bad on bad teams. Lopez and Harris will look much better on this “new” Nets team. That team from last year was horrid. We had no real PF, SF, and no 3pt shooting. We had no bench… We had no real owner, G.M. or coach. I’m just surprised Lopez and Harris didn’t ask to be traded…
co signed
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 31, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Talent
There are 4 players on the team that can be clutch superstars, TWill , James,Lopez and Favors. Your going to have to pick two of them and give them the reins of the team. The others will be supporting cast.
I want to see what TWill does in an offense that he can do what he want(coached)
by Zartan on Aug 31, 2010 12:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Clutch superstars?
They need to be stars first. I like Favors and James but they havent even played a game yet. Twill had 2 good months and unless his jump shot improves dramatically he will never be able to take the next step. Lopez has great potential, but Lopez being clutch will be based on a PG getting him the rock in the 4th quarter.
Stars come from somewhere..
Favors and James have a chance to be the next young stars in the NBA. I bet Damion James gets minutes at SF, PF and SG. That kid is aggressive and AJ likes aggressive. Favors needs to grow up a bit and get tougher. I bet he will, maybe not this year but two or three years from now.
They could also be busts or just OK players
We dont know…..for every Dwight Howard there is a Sam Bowie, for every Michael Jordan there is Harold Minor……
Lets let them play 1st beforehand. Hopefully they will but who knows….
"Lets let them play 1st beforehand"
The only problem is that many Nets fans would trade them at a drop of a hat for certain “name” players. I would rather grow my own “stars” then import them.
by M I K E on Aug 31, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Grow our own stars"
We havent grown many have we?
Our last 2 stars
Kidd- trade
Carter- trade
Its a crapshoot these young unproven players:
Derrick Coleman, Dennis Hopson, Kenny Anderson, Pearl Washington, Ed O Bannon, the list goes on and on and on. I have no problem dealing anyone other than Lopez and Favors (I am very high on Favors) for a proven star.
We havent grown many have we?
well, it’s tougher to grow your own stars if you don’t have high picks. Until 2008, we hadn’t been in the lottery since 2001. We developed Martin and Jefferson (both lottery picks) into star players. We’re bacl in the lottery some years later and draft Lopez, Williams and Favors, all of whom look promising, let’s hope they develop the right way, Brook has been fantastic so far and TWill gave us great reasons for hope at the end of last season, hopeulffy he’ll keep up trend. Let’see how Favors does, I think we are going to have to be patient with him.
We have had plenty of draft picks thru the years
But lets be honest we really have not done much with them. And in lottery prior to 2001 we did not get the star. The Spurs havent had a lottery pick since Duncan (we took Dennis HOpson in that draft if I remember) and they have continued to get good players. The draft is a crapshoot….
Kmart- agreed very good player, good pick
RJ- IMO, a product of Jason Kidd. I wouldnt consider him a star- good player yes, star no
Lopez- steal
Williams/Favors- TBD, both have question marks
The big question are ANY of those guys going to be a Kobe/LBJ/Wade/D Howard type of player that can lead us to the promised land. At the end of day we want Championships not playoff appearances (although that will be a nice 1st step). And if not…….
Yi derp derp derp herp
This thread is like starting a flame. people spouting non-sense. Herp derp derp!
We hardly knew Yi!
That’s what I want my 7 footer doing, standing beyond the three point line, with the game hanging in the balance, throwing up long 3’s, instead of driving to the basket and getting fouled and making free throws. Good Luck in Washington Yi….with our luck, something “clicks” with Yi and Wall, and Yi becomes Dirk Lite and we all look stupid.
Paul from Delray Beach
i have a feeling Yi is gonna be good this year
the kid is averaging 25 point per game in the worlds this year
I think I've seen this from Yi before...
Yi should of been born a 7’ tall female stripper. What a teaser…LOL
Thanks Big Tom
agree with your words. once again NI is silent after he starts a storm! That’s Jersey for we love you guy!
yeah, but he shot .400 from the field, which is putrid for a 6 footer, as is that 7 rpg average when you take into account the kid played 32 minutes a night.
When you’re a 7 footer who plays 32 mpg, and you average 12 ppg on 40% shooting and 7 rpg, those are very poor stats, IMO.
typo
7 footer not 6 footer LOL
Yi’s problem always was consistency. I really thought he turned the corner after he came back from his injury early last season, because he displayed an aggressive game, but then that aggressiveness went the toilet all of the sudden and it never came back.
yeah your right
but the guy did average those #‘s while playing in a shell….
I think he’s gonna be a surprise..and i still say that trading him was a big mistake
Another thing that everyone is forgetting.
Great teams don’t shine in clutch time….THEY AVOID THEM! This isn’t to say that we don’t want to preform if we get to clutch time, obviously we do. However Clutch time stats are moot if you are good enough not to experience them. This team will see clutch time, hopefully we will shine through, but with the foundation we are building, even without Melo, we should be fine. We won’t top the league but we will work towards it.
By the way, we didn’t get Lebron (thank God), DWade (I would have loved to have him here) or Boozer (would have been nice), but I think that we’ve built a solid foundation. If you are crying about the team before we play a single game, realize this. You don’t have to watch, a fan is going to wait adn see if we are good befor ewe mortgage our future….unless your a knicks fan then you ar ehappy giving a max to no kneecaps./
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Aug 31, 2010 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
Yi can score 20 and give up 40! He sucks. Great player to have in a game of Horse, but, the Wizards can have him! I can’t watch every player run circles around him! I was a fan of the Kenyon Martin years! A lock down, agressive type of power forward that would not let anyone come in the paint easily. Even if Favors does not have the agression of a K-Mart, atleast you know he can play defense, rebound and block shots.
LETS GO NETS!
Ridiculous.
I signed up for a user name just to comment on this article cause it bothered me so much. Stats mean nothing when it comes to the Nets. Yi had good stats cause Kiki played him almost 40 minutes a game, even when he didnt deserve to be out there. And then theres guys like Boone who ranked 27th in the league in rebounding last season and HARDLY PLAYED. Imagine if he had? Wonder what his stats would be then… My point is that nothing that happened the past 2 seasons should be taken at face value cause it was all politics and business. And no basketball.
I signed up for a user name just to comment on this article cause it bothered me so much. Stats mean nothing when it comes to the Nets. Yi had good stats cause Kiki played him almost 40 minutes a game,
Incomplete, or poorly read stats mean nothing, but stats do mean something, they just have to be read in context. Yi shot 21% from the field in crunch time, so he had decent production but at a horrible rate. Stats just become a metric of what happened, but “a” stat can be very misleading. And there is always some part of the picture not captured.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
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