NetsDaily Off-Season Report #20
Training camp opens three weeks from Friday with Media Day. Then, it's two-a-days as the Nets prepare for their preseason opener on October 3 vs. Maccabi Haifa. Who will be there for pictures remains an open question. We look at reasons beyond basketball that make Carmelo Anthony attractive to the Nets; examine the timetable for Barclays Center; talk about Mikhail Prokhorov's interest in training facilities; take issue with Ric Bucher on the Nets' spending spree; list what former Nets will be playing in the Worlds starting Saturday (the reason we're early this week); keep up with the charitable Nets; and suggest what's the biggest news in all the 'Melo maneuverings.
Every Sunday, we’ll be updating the Nets’ off-season with bits and pieces of information, gossip, etc. to help take the edge off missing the playoffs, relying on the Nets’ beat reporters and others who have slipped interesting stuff into larger stories and blogs...not to mention our own reporting.
Melo of Red Hook
Carmelo Anthony grew up about two miles from the site of Barclays Center in the Red Hook Homes. Like his wife, LaLa Vasquez, he left Brooklyn before high school, learning the hoops game in Baltimore. His wife's family moved to Atlanta where she developed her musical career.
In the calculus of 'Melo Movement, don't discount the value of bringing a Brooklyn kid back home. A three-year extension would assure that Anthony will be in a (new) Nets (?) uniform when Barclays opens in 2012. Also, don't discount the value of having Anthony--and Vasquez--being part of a big marketing effort to sell basketball to the region's large Hispanic population. Anthony's mother is Puerto Rican, as are both Vasquez's parents.
Might the Nets will be willing to add a premium to their trade offer based on what he could do for the Brooklyn brand and other marketing opportunities in the city? They certainly might. It's never only about basketball.
A couple of other things about the 'Melo Matter: Terrence Williams, who's been mentioned in trade rumors, tweeted Saturday morning "Happy to be a NET yessir", adding, "watch the cards fall in place". TWill has been tweeting about "chess" games all week. The other thing is that if the Nets did a multi-player deal for Anthony, they still wouldn't be done. The Nets have 12 players on guaranteed contracts and three others on partially guaranteed deals. A two- or three-for-one or two deal would require them to replenish the roster.
Arena on Time?
The Nets aren't saying whether the construction of Barclays Center is on time, delayed or ahead of schedule (We've asked). But an exchange of emails on a Brooklyn street closing between an ESDC official and an arena critic seems to indicate that it's either on time or ahead of schedule.
The arena has to be completed by July 2012 if the Nets hope to start the 2011-12 season in Brooklyn. MaryAnne Gilmartin, EVP of Forest City Ratner, explained why back in April. She wrote in an affadavit:
"All of the various construction-related activities described in this affidavit are part of a carefully developed and very intricate sequence of work that is now intended to allow the Barclays Center arena to open in time to permit the Nets to play home games at the Barclays Center by the beginning of the 2012-13 NBA season. Furthermore, it takes at least three to four months to commission an arena like Barclays Center--i.e., to test and refine the various buildings systems and the various operations (such as security and food services) that must be performing properly and efficiently before the arena can be opened for the professional basketball season. In other words, it is essential that the arena be completed by early July 2012, so that the commission process can be completed by the opening of the basketball season in October 2012."
The 26-month construction timetable, starting in May of this year, hasn't changed, at least officially. This week, Norman Oder of the Atlantic Yards Report emailed ESDC spokeswoman Elizabeth Mitchell about how traffic on Flatbush Avenue would be affected by construction at the arena site. She responded: "The lanes of traffic may be able to be restored a few months before the transit (subway) entrance and the arena open in the second quarter of 2010. We have been told that FCRC will restore whatever they can back to the public domain for vehicles and pedestrians as soon as possible."
The second quarter of course runs from April 1 to June 30. So it would seem the arena is a little bit ahead of that 26-month schedule. That shouldn't be surprising. Barclays Center in one of the few big construction projects underway in the city. Shortages of labor and materials, the most commong cause of construction delays, aren't a problem now. Also, as we noted, the New Meadowlands Stadium came in four months early.
As of now, there are only two buildings still left standing in the Barclays Center footprint, both large, empty condominium buildings converted from industrial use. Demolition scaffolding is starting to wrap itself around them.
Prokhorov Money Watch
As president of the Russian Biathlon Union, Mikhail Prokhorov was in Chelyabinsk, Russia, this week to survey land for an Olympic training center. He will invest about 350 million rubles or about $11.4 million. (The ruble's not what it used to be.)
Prokhorov has long understood the value of training facilities and other player amenities. Here's what he said back in June when he came upon the construction of the Nets' new locker room at the Prudential Center.
"The layout and design are professional questions, but in terms of functionality I want to understand how the team will be situated here. It's very important in any sport nowadays that a player who comes for a game doesn't have to think about anything else. Everything needs to be comfortable, functional and the way he likes things to be. He needs to feel at home. It's very important. And the first thing free agents ask about, aside from salary, is what the so-called perks will be. And we need to be able to give them an answer that is absolutely competitive with other teams'."
We don't know what the Nets are spending on that locker room, which is of course a temporary facility, but Prokhorov knows what state-of-the-art looks like. He had an extensive tour of Yankee Stadium during his May visit to New York and was particularly interested in the players' quarters. He toured the locker room, massage area, workout area and spoke about it all with Yankees' management.
When the Nets do move to Brooklyn, their training facility will be incorporated into Barclays Center (and be visible from Atlantic Avenue through large streetside windows.) It's being designed by the same firm that has the overall commission at Barclays. Ellerbe Becket most recently designed the Cavs' training facility. While it's located in a suburban setting outside Cleveland, its amenities will give you a hint of what they have done in the past and what the Nets might be asking them to do in Brooklyn.
Breaking the Bank with Bucher
We were quite confused by something Ric Bucher wrote for ESPN the Magazine this month. In discussing the 2010 free agency circus, Bucher wrote that the real story wasn't the Big Three's decision(s), but the way the game was being played in the shadow of an presumed lockout next July.
After making some good points about team financing, Bucher wrote this:
"In anticipation of the 2010 free agent class, more cap room was created by teams than there were star players to spend it on. GMs who lost out on big names had to break the bank on also-rans to reach the league-mandated minimum payroll of $43.5 million. That's why the Nets wound up spending $14 million on the trio of Jordan Farmar, Johan Petro and Travis Outlaw.
"'I understand the business end of all this," says Nuggets guard Chauncey Billups, who was a second-year player in the lockout-shortened season of 1999. "My only question is, Where's the basketball at in all this? It's almost like the game gets forgotten'."
"Not completely. Several teams signed players to coax fans into buying tickets. The Blazers lured undrafted second-year man Wesley Matthews away from the Jazz with a five-year, $34 million offer and the Bucks locked up Drew Gooden with a five-year, $32 million deal."
Now let's go through that excerpt with a skeptical eye.
The Nets "had to break the bank on also-rans to reach a league-mandated minimum payroll of $43.5 million"? Okay, the Nets' signings of Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmar, Johan Petro and Anthony Morrow did put the team payroll at $43.1 million back in July. But the league mandated minimum doesn't have to be met until NEXT July 1 and that $43.1 million covered only 12 players. Moreover, there were plenty of reporting back then about how the Nets would likely trade for a starting power forward later in the summer or early in the season. In fact, the Nets did trade for Troy Murphy on August 11, adding $10.5 million (net) to their payroll. "Break the bank?" The total cost of those four contracts signed in July is $69 million (Farmar's last year is a player option.) In the currency exchange of 2010 free agency, that's two Amir Johnson's. That's breaking the bank?...Mikhail Prokhorov's bank? Please.
Going right at that third graph now. "Several teams signed players to coax fans into buying tickets"...okay, we can accept that. But please don't suggest that Portland fans called their ticket reps in a panic looking for scarce Blazer tickets after they signed Wesley Matthews. Wesley Matthews?!? Drew Gooden, who's now been with eight teams (the Bulls twice) since draft night in 2002, is a draw that can "coax" fans to the Bradley Center? If you look up "journeyman" in the NBA Dictionary, Gooden's face pops up in various uniforms and hair styles. Dwight Gooden might draw more fans.
As for Billups comment, we have to say that if by next summer the economy is still in the tank and unemployment is hovering around 10%, don't expect too many in the public to side with the players over whether their $10 million contract is going to be fully or only partially guaranteed. That's one reason why we think a lockout isn't inevitable: the real possibility of it becoming a greater public relations nightmare than anticipated.
Four Ex-Nets in Worlds
Four former Nets will be playing for their homelands at the FIBA World Championships, two of them against Team USA this weekend. Of course, one of the four, Nenad Krstic, will get a late start because of his three-game suspension for fighting last week against Greece.
Krstic is playing for Serbia; Zoran Planinic for Croatia; Boki Nachbar for Slovenia; and Yi Jianlian for China. Planinic will be starting at the point Saturday for Croatia against the United States. The game airs on ESPN Classic at 12 noon ET, then re-airs on ESPN2 at 11 p.m. ET. The US will face Nachbar's Slovenia Sunday.
Then, there's the owner's team, Russia. Half of the Team Russia roster--six players--have toiled for Mikhail Prokhorov's CSKA Moscow. In fact, it's possible that no professional team has better representation on the Worlds' rosters than CSKA. Planinic. for example, has played for CSKA the last two years.
Also on hand, rooting no doubt for the USA, is Billy King who has served USA Basketball in various capacities going back to 1987 when he played for the US in the World University Games.
More from the Charitable Nets
Jordan Farmar and Anthony Morrow posted videos associated with their charities this week. Morrow posted an online "commercial" for Anthony Morrow Charities, talking about he wants to share the blessings he's recieved. Meanwhile, Farmar posted a short video recorded at his basketball camp on helping the environment.
Final Note
As the Melo rumors mount, we expect the coming week, normally the slowest of the off-season, to be very newsy. There will be daily rumors of where he's headed. Some will be true, some will concern the Knicks. With 10 players under 27, 10 draft choices over the next three years and $16.2 million in expiring deals, the Nets are in the mix. That in itself is big news.
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Favors is a goner if we trade for melo…
Reminds me a little when celtics traded green for Allen…
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
by Andy. on Aug 28, 2010 12:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
USA vs. Croatia on ESPN Classics now (12-2PM)
USA is losing at end of Q1.
Terrible defense and they are playing Zone against USA.
Nice update
Well said on the Bucher comments, but we still overpaid for Petro. Hope you’re right about the lock-out. Besides the PR aspect, I wonder how much the NBA Players Union is going to be guided by the stars or by the players who fill out the roster. The vast majority of NBA players are not getting nor will ever get max contracts, so why should they give up their still substantial but fleeting salaries to enable more superfriend teams. It will be interesting. Not sure Lala would sell any more tix than Joumana did, but I’m old school that way.
We paid Petro 3 times what he was worth
I don’t see where the hot market for Johan Petro was that we couldn’t have significantly lowered our offer to half of what we’re paying him or more
we dont know if we overpaid for Petro
Avery Johnson and Popeye Jones have a very good record of getting more out young big men who others have cast off: DeSagana Diop became a very good defensive player and Brandon Bass became a very good rotational player for Dallas.
I don't think it matters
what matters is what he does…and as I just noted, Johnson and Jones have a very good record with big guys.
The point is, we overpaid for him
Regardless of whether he produces at a ‘02 Shaq-like level. He could’ve been had for less, so I think that’s the confusion among people as to why we paid that amount.
I really don’t think it’s a big deal, but I understand why people question it.
Good for him I say.
by eLonepb on Aug 28, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So About Melo..
Really, is there anything else to talk about?
Does anybody believe that would we have a chance to beat Miami or LAL with Melo for the next 4 years? Especially if we have to gut the team (Lopez) for him?
We need to think about the future.
The future is Lopez and Favors.
Once Miami’s and LAL’s reigns are over that’s when the Nets could shine.
Harris will be the vet PG
T.Williams in his prime
D.James in his prime
Favors entering his prime
Lopez in his his prime
Of course the pieces will change, but the core is there.
It depends upon
whether or not you think Lopez will ever be as good and/or as valuable to a team as Anthony. If you think he will be, then we should not trade him for Anthony. If don’t think Lopez will ever be as good as Anthony, then we should trade him for Anthony…assuming all other variables are equal of course, which they aren’t, but still, my point still stands. Essentially, it comes down to how good you think Lopez will be.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Anthony and his "Team"
Will want to win now.(and get paid)
Assuming Lopez along with Harris or Murphy are traded, we are not winning any time soon, let alone against the Heat or LAL. Thus they potentially start to pout and make demands. We would not be championship contenders with Melo until one of two things happen.. Miami and LAL are vulnerable and Favors has lived up to his potential. Both of these seem years away.
If we don’t trade for Melo, by the time all of our young players are in their primes (Lopez, Favors, T.Will, D.James, picks) that will be the time Miami and LAL are done monopolizing titles, and the time for teams like NJ, OKC and others to dominate. Meanwhile Melo will be 30+ by then.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Over rating
Your vastly over rating Melo. He’s a solid scorer but not that defensive stopper like Kobe, Jordan,Wade, maybe LBJ. I don’t mind Melo on the team for the right price, but he is not a world beater and he’s a knuckle head.
Bottum line, your star player has to be your leader, not just your star and leader in name(Harris). Lopez, as he matures, i see a becoming a good leader.
John Wall, coulda been that player for us. Watch the kid as he makes the league fold as he please.
by Zartan on Aug 28, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Melo is 26
He is younger than Harris.
His game will permit him to develop further. He is not so dependent on athleticism as is, say, Carter’s game.
Will say it again: I’m betting on Houston, but to suggest that a 26 year old is too old to be considered part of the future is silly.
I'm Speaking of After the Next 4 years
When he turns 30.
Potentially the next 5-6 years could be dominated by Miami and more presently LAL.
After Melo’s extension is up, he will be 30 years old.
Meanwhile I don’t think we would have a chance with Melo during those 4 years.
We would have a much better chance in 4 years IMO when
Lopez is 26
Favors is 23
etc…
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
oh please
he’s at the peak of his skill level in the next three years (not four).
you would be getting one of the best NBA scorers at the peak of his skill level.
this is a guy who is capable of scoring 30 points a game. How many of them are there in the NBA…three, four maybe.
And during his peak
Will Melo and potentially a gutted front court with little cap room thanks to his contract win us anything?
And I am referring to 4 years since, he would play this season and under contract and then the extension of 3 years.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Suppose
Derrick Favors turns into Dwight Howard? The Nets believe he can be.
I’m not saying we should trade Lopez—I think it’s a bad idea, but I am saying, in spite of the level of denial here, that it’s possible.
And again, Anthony would be 29 or 30 at the end of his contract, not 33 like Amare or Lee will be or 34 like Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer will be.
Other than James, Wade, this would be the most reasonable contract offered to anyone this off-season.
There are people here who would turn down LeBron James.
But When Would Favors turn into Howard?
If that happens.
When he is 23/24?
After Melo’s extension is over.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
Dwight Howard is 24.
Favors (19) may become Dwight in 3 or 4 years, correct. And he will not be in his prime until 25.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The question would be does Melo think he would become the next D-Howard and sign the extension
Its sooo hard to figure right now.
30 point gamers.......
With enough playing time…..TWILL….Harris……Murphy…and soon Favors and James…….We don’t need MarshMelo…..
Glad to see that Net Income is finally coming around
to realizing that his media colleagues are biased towards the Knicks. And of course they should be — NY is the media capital of the world. So of course they’re homers.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
has nothing to do with that
Two of the Knicks writers are quite good…those for the Times and Daily News. The Post and Newsday reporters are just enamored of the Knicks to the point of being ridiculous. There are good writers and bad writers covering everything.
One writer who I respect told me that the term of art often used to describe ridiculous Knick rumors is “Bermanesque”.
Our team as constituted in my eyes will be better
Than seriously gutting it for 1 player, Favors Lopez combo can be dominate for years to come, we know were not beating Miami or Orlando with just Carmelo and some wing players.
Completely agree...
Lopez, 22 year old center on rookie contract is much more valuable than Melo at 20M per year.
Lopez and Favors are off the table for me and hopefully the Nets brass. Melo is no KG.
Let him go to Houston.
by rundmc00 on Aug 28, 2010 1:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly.. he's more like T-Mac
Huge scoring numbers
Almost all 1st round exits
Little defense
And like T-Mac, yes he can go to Houston is the cost is Lopez and 3 years $65m, which is an insane annual amount (more than what anyone else got per year this off-season), and potentially cap suicide in a new CBA.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not a fan of TMac and never have been, but...
McGrady actually was a much more complete player than Anthony, he could do a lot more things than just score.
I see your point, tho.
I am fine with Melo...
But I am not going to tear up our cost controlled frontcourt for the next decade to pay Melo $20M per year. TWil or Damian could be all-stars (though not likely as good as Melo) and we’d still have the rest of the team and 20M cap space.
that is nothing more than wishful thinking
that TWill or James will be an all-star. One was a rookie who had an up and down season, the other hasn’t played a game yet.
But if we trade Brook for Melo...
We know that we lost an 18/8 22-yr old center on a rookie contract. I’d rather keep Brook and hope for the best with TWil and James than get Melo.
TWILL....
Will be an All-Star…….Are you sure that you have watched him play…He can blow past any player and get to the basket anytime he wants to……DJames…No All-Star potential ?…Did you watch the summer league games ????
I agree about Williams’ first step, but lets wait and see before we declare them anything
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 29, 2010 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions
though not likely as good as Melo?
I’m going to have to say 0% chance of becoming as good as Melo. I’m not saying they both can’t be all-stars though, or that I even want Melo on the Nets. It’s just a little crazy to hear all these fans trying to diminish the value of Melo and at the same time, embellishing the value of others.
And I'm going to disagree
They may not be the scorers that Melo is. But both can be more complete players. It took
Melo 4 seasons to notch his first triple double.
The JETS/NETS are coming!
I can easily make an argument
that this off-season was a disaster…
—Lost the lottery in spite of the worst record in years.
—Didn’t get any of the big free agents even though the team gutted the roster for two years to have the cap space.
—Lost a GM who was well respected around the league…then watched him to a rival in the same division.
—wound up paying a lot of money to free agents for whom there was no competition.
—dumped two young players, Lee and Yi, for expiring contracts.
Instead, I will remain optimistic…but if they could get Melo and NOT have to give up Lopez or Favors, I would do it in a heartbeat.
This offseason was fine...
1) We only had a 25% chance at the number one pick. The team with the worst record has not gotten the top pick in a while. Favors could easily be a stud and big impact player in the league.
2) The FAs had already decided to go to Miami. Screw them. Boozer wanted Chitown…good for him.
3) Brooklyn is happening which is huge.
4) Avery is a great coach and we have a great staff.
5) Our owner is committed and rich. He is spending money in other ways.
6) We signed decent young players that Avery and coaches can make better.
7) We will be able to shoot this year.
8) We will not play at CAA.
9) Thorn was getting old anyway and King is 1 for 1. I believe King is a smart young aggressive GM that learned from his mistakes. Always had a great eye for talent.
And screw Denver on Melo...
The only real young stud traded for at the time was Al Jefferson. And KG >>>>>>>>>> Melo.
As I said
i remain optimistic, but don’t think everyone believes as you (and I) believe.
There are countervailing arguments out there.
There is no countervailing argument...
1) That we left CAA
2) That our owner is rich
3) That we have a much better coaching staff than last year
4) That Brooklyn is for real
5) That the worst team has a 25 percent chance
6) That we signed some decent young players, even if we overpaid
7) That we will have 20M of cap space this summer
These are undeniable facts.
they are not all undeniable
—no guarantee they will have $20 million at the end of the year.
—dont know how good the young players will be
—still lost the lottery
We can argue all day...
But I am very happy with the Nets offseason and would not trade Brook or Favors for Melo.
Point was.
it’s subjective. You may think it’s good other can think it’s bad. There’s arguments for both.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
The validity will come when Nets are playing around 500 ball (without trading for Melo) and have a brighter future.
And if Melo’s Associates + LaLa decide that Proky should be his destination, then a fair package that doesn’t include Brook will have to be accepted by Denver.
I agree with everything you say
And the fact that the media’s throwing us under the bus, is a good thing. We don’t have to live up to any ridiculous expectations and I think we’re going to surprise everyone this yr. Who in the media predicted that the Thunder would take off so quickly?
Take out Favors.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
they have a ton of assets
start with the four assets the Knicks gave them in the TMac “trade”:
—Jordan Hill (good young player)
—Jared Jeffries (expiring contact at nearly $7 million)
—the 2012 pick, protected only top 1.
—the right to exchange 2011 picks, protected 1-5.
Then add, if you want, Kevin Martin. Now that they have Lee (and would have Anthony), not a lot of need for Martin’s scoring.
They also have Chuck Hayes (expiring contract), Chase Budinger (good young player) and all their own first round picks.
I could see a deal of KMart, Hill, Jeffries, Budinger and Knicks pick
Then the Rockets have Brooks, Lee, Melo and Scola. This team would only be dangerous if Yao is healthy, which is a big question mark.
We could not top that offer unless we included Favors nor would I want to. But remember that Melo would need to approve the deal.
Don't forget that Houston has a convenient Airport Hub, which should get LaLa to her Entertainment cities real efficiently (LOL).
If Melo’s people and wife want to go to Houston, then I wouldn’t waste any time to try to stop them.
However, one injury to Yao (even more likely than an injury to Amare) and Houston’s chances to contend are finished.
—Jordan Hill (good young player)
since when?
He was one of the worst lotto picks last season on two different teams
—the right to exchange 2011 picks, protected 1-5
Both NY and Houston project to be late seed playoff teams, or at least their picks will be in very end of lotto.
—the 2012 pick, protected only top 1.
NY will have the ability to add another max player next summer, and should be an even better team.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
For Houston to step up...
KMart, Hill, Jeffries, 2 #1 picks (maybe Budinger) for Melo and Smith.
nice spin
Hill played much better for the Rockets than the Knicks.
If you think the Knicks will be late playoff seed, well, I can’t help you there.
NY has a good as chance an ayone
Miami
Orlando
Boston
Chicago
Atlanta
Milwaukee
Then’s it’s a toss up:
NY
Detroit
Charlotte
NJ
Indiana
Philly
Cleveland
Toronto
Washington
I think NY has the best chances out of all those teams to be in the playoffs, even over Charlotte who have regressed losing Felton, Chandler and not adding a draft pick.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
one injury to Amare
and they are TOAST.
Raymond Felton, who all the Knick fans thinks is the greatest PG since Nash, was an unrestricted free agent meaning Larry Brown didn’t think he was any good. He didn’t think he could run an NBA team.
Turiaf and Mozgov as your center rotation. Please.
But oh, oh, Antthony Randolph has such potential. He’s a head case and is injury prone. Best of luck.
I hope you are right
but anyway, why do you think Stoudemire won’t play center with Randolph at PF?
I agree with your larger point, of course, but on this detailed matter, I don’t know why you slot Stoudemire in as their PF.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
One injury to many teams and they are toast
And I’d say the odds of Amare going down during the 2010-2011 are slim.
Felton / Douglas
Chandler / Walker / Mason
Gallinari / Azubuike
Amare / Randolph
Turiaff / Mozgov / Curry’s Contract
Is still better than what we have right now.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Not the point
Point is.. it’s an $11m expirer they could trade for help now, or save it for cap space next season and land another major FA.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think NI said Jeffries Hill and both Knicks picks...
So that is really 2.5 first round picks.
We could offer Murph, TWil, James and 2 #1 picks that is basically 4 #1 picks and a servicable PF in the interim.
Houston would have to offer Brooks or KMart, Jeffries and picks in which case there is not much left of the team if Yao can’t play.
I'd rather have those Knick picks
than any pick the Nets have. I think they are a disaster waiting to happen.
With KMart, the Rockets have a better package...
Good luck in Houston. Perhaps Melo boycotts Houston.
Melo has reportedly said
he would accept a trade to the Rockets as well as the Nets.
I imagine there are teams who will not be interested in him but only a few.
Favors should really have little value to other teams.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
Then I guess he is safe since no teams value him...
Which we both know is BS because every team in the NBA would be happy to have Favors on their team.
...
Really? If you’re trading a superstar do you think Favors has great value? We’re not talking about hypothetical where the Nets are giving Favors to charity to every team who would obviously accept. I mean honestly common sense here.
Favors is going to suck in his first couple of years with his risk. High risk high reward players alone will not get you a return like Melo. I really need to post a reading is good motivational picture over here.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
Allen in his prime went for a #5 pick
Favors has way more upside than Green. While Favors would not do it alone, a #3 pick is worth more than 2 or 3 future #1 picks (e.g., Knicks).
That's not the full deal.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
And Seattle also got
Wally Sczeribiak who was not even expiring and Delonte West who was/is nothing much.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly...
Harris, Favors and #1 pick for Melo and Lawson may work for me but I wouldn’t mind just passing on the whole deal unless we keep Brook and Favors.
My point is Favors has A LOT of trade value
Even more than Big Cuz Jerry!
- (Favors) >> #5 (J.Green)
Murphy/Harris (filler needed) >> Szcerbiak
Multiple picks >>> D.West
And yes,
Melo > Allen
in relation to these trades.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If we went Harris, James, Favors and #1 pick he would be ours...
But that is way too much. Perhaps Harris, Favors, Ross, #1 pick and 2 #2 picks for Melo and Lawson.
Speculation
I don’t believe he wants to play for Houston at all. I’m surprised he even wants to play for the Nets, other than their location and their future in Brooklyn.
@Net Income
I think so far in this thread we are missing the boat. You are making the argument herein that Houston’s chips are stacked higher than ours. EXCEPT if we were to put Brook Lopez on the table, which you haven’t addressed. You wrote above something that we all agree with (except for Andres, sigh) that we should trade for Melo “in a heartbeat” if we can do so without giving up Lopez and Favors. YES! We almost all agree. However, it might come down to needing to include Lopez or Favors. That is precisely what it might come down to.
In order to trump Houston’s offer, we might have to offer Lopez + Murphy/Harris + a pick or two. THAT would trump any Houston offer. Therefore, the question posed to you is, would you do THAT trade? That’s what we’re now debating. :)
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
And let me reiterate
Billy King has a MAJOR dilemma/decision to make. This decision could make or break his tenure as Nets GM right away — whether to trade Lopez for Melo or decline it. It’s a tough call, and I’m glad it’s not my decision to make. But this is why GMs get paid millions — to make these sorts of tough decisions.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
The answer to Brook is NOOOOO
Favors, Harris, #1 and #2 picks for Melo and Lawson I would probably do and regret later.
...or Favors
forget Billy King’s dilemma.
The Nuggets have no GM or at least no GM with any experience making trades. Ujiri is being paid $200,000! Josh Kroenke, age 30, is making the decisions. I suggest that their lack of experience will cause them to set the bar too high. That will slow things down.
I wouldn't mind slowing the process...
I’d like Outlaw to be in the trade and see what Favors can do.
Yes. It would be wise for everyone to "take a deep breath" and see just how talented the players are this fall.
Ultimately (If Favors is on the table) it comes down to how much Nuggets want him.
If Nuggets want Favors, then nothing Houston has to offer would compare, because this is a Superstar world.
It is in the best interests of The Nets to build up Favors reputation in the meantime.
If we see additional stories come out (we just had one) then maybe King is trying to increase his value.
Also, as we discussed in the previous blog, I don’t think we know everything about how much salary would have to go to Denver (specifically whether Jarvis Hayes or maybe Boone could still be signed and included).
If Favors is the main piece, I wouldn’t want to include much more talent and it would be much simpler to wait and include Outlaw.
Is Melo such a “child” that he couldn’t put up with playing in Denver for the first 6 weeks of the season?
Such a flawed strategy
You base this entire thinking on the idea that all of the Nets players will be performing at such a high level, that all teams will be salivating over us.
Let’s say they are 2 – 17 during the season. You think we have any leverage at that point?
Nothing is more valuable than hype during trade time. This is why we overvalue Twill (other teams don’t see it like we do) and why Favors would be a coveted asset to other teams.
Yes, I am willing to bet that most of the Nets are playing well this fall. I will take that gamble, because if I am correct, Melo could be obtained for much less than what you want to give away.
Remember, I am on record to have picked the Nets to win only 2-3 games during Nov + Dec. last year, so I don’t think I am being Rosy.
You, on the other hand, are negotiating out of Desperation.
In order to negotiate, you first have to make the Nuggets believe that you can do without getting Melo.
And as I have said before, unless Melo’s wife and Associates want him to play for Lopez/Proky, then we shouldn’t even pursue this any further.
Another flaw in your argument
Is that you think Melo will be with the Nuggets at the start of the season.
He won’t.
Knowing that, you need to revise your trade proposal.
It is up to Denver, and then up to Melo to agree.
Denver management is a mess right now.
They don’t have to trade him and we haven’t heard anything directly from Melo, who I understand is in China.
If I was Denver and was about to risk trading Melo for Favors, or even TWill+DJames, I would want to see them play first, this Fall. It is that simple, but because they are inexperienced, they just haven’t figured that out yet.
Also, there are a bunch of players who can’t be traded for right now, and that could prevent salary cap from working out.
I can easily see this dragging on for months even if all the parties would like to get this over with now.
Those months could go a lot easier if Melo and Denver agreed to “play nice” and say some nice things to appease the fans and leave the door open for him to stay.
Here's a reasonable trade with creativity...
Resigned Hayes for 1 year $8M, Favors, James and 2 #1 picks for Melo.
As I think Favors has more value than KMart on Houston, this might actually be the best trade for the Nets and Nugs and trump Houston.
Replace the 2 #1 picks...
With 1 #1 pick and 2 #2 picks.
Expiring contract...
As good as Curry or Jeffries. Don’t let your mind limit the possibilities.
I think the Asst. GM (Marks) is the only one who knows all the options and tricks available.
Only recently did we learn from some unconfirmed website, that the 3 partially guaranteed signings use up only $180,000 of salary cap.
We learned form Dave D. that Jarvis Hayes’ rights were not renounced (but haven’t heard anything about Josh Boone, even though he is still listed on some sites as having a 6.2 million cap hold).
they have to pay hayes at least 4.5 mill
to get over the cap so they can use that 10.5 mil trade exception unless i’m getting the cap rules wrong
I think they would chance it...
I think they would chance putting Lopez in a package for Melo. They would without a doubt do it. This is not what I would want personally, but this coming year is already set up to be a “transition” year of sorts. If they can get the star signing they wanted, they will do almost anything. There is as much actual basketball as marketing in a move for Melo. The management is dying to have a stars face to put on this Brooklyn move. I have a feeling this would be a complicated deal bringing in another piece or two to satisfy Melo.
doubt it happens
but you never know how a trade will be structured. Denver might give something else up to sweeten it.
I think it’s foolish to construct specific scenarios. I have never seen a trade mimic a fan’s suggestions.
yes, doubtful
-but crazier things have happened. In all honesty I was pretty excited to see how all the new guys worked together that are on the squad now, would be nice to have absolutely no stars and let this group grow a bit. However, I also understand that this franchise would immediately make more money with a Melo on their team, and he is quite good anyway… so let the speculations roll along…
Rod Thorn had already said that Lopez was Untouchable but Thorn also "laughed" on several occasions that Favors could be temporary (implied traded for Melo).
That should tell you something about where the Nets stand.
If anything, King would feel even more strongly than the patient Thorn, about winning NOW.
Thus King would be even more likely than Thorn to trade Favors for Melo (but not Brook), since by the time Favors would develop, King’s contract would be renewed (with Melo/Lopez playing in Brooklyn)
I think it’s safe to say that in order to get somebody like Melo, the Nets would have to give up something very good. I think they would try and make a deal work for somebody like Melo, and it would take giving up a big asset currently on the roster. I don’t think anybody is untouchable in this league, except a small handful of players. This is big business, and big business needs a face to lay their money down on.
King won't trade Brook. I won't waste a second reading any story that mentions trading Brook.
Not even the loyal Denver fans on their website are demanding Brook anymore. They demand Favors now. And we know that Denver management wants 1st round picks, which the Nets have.
I would never say never.
Or even “won’t” trade somebody. I can’t get sucked in to believing scenarios, but I can’t help but think the only way to get a player like him is to give up some very good current assets. It’s the only logical way, but I guess the Pau Gasol trade did happen too, so you never know.
As did the VC trade
VC was about Melo’s age but he was locked into a deal and thus could have gone anywhere.
VC landed Toronto
Zo who wouldn’t report and forced a buyout
Eric Williams a bench player that wasn’t even an expiring contract
Aaron Williams, see Eric williams
2 #1’s.. Joey Graham and Renaldo Blakman
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Questions
Houston may have attractive assets but…
1— why would Anthony want to sign with the Rockets if they would be without Aaron Brooks and Kevin Martin?
2—why would Denver want Houston’s picks. I know there are a couple Knicks picks, but what if we offer 4 picks?
I think Murphy, TWill, James, Hump would be fine + picks + cash + a new house for Melo
by corky_romano4life on Aug 28, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions
your answers
1. Melo has reportedly told the Nuggets he would accept a deal with Houston. The same article that reported he would accept a Nets trade reported he would accept a trade to the Rockets. Aaron Brooks maybe, but Kevin Martin is not an untouchable. He is injury prone and why do you think the Rockets demanded Courtney Lee in the Murphy trade? The Rockets are loaded at the wings. They could easily sacrifice Martin if they are getting Melo.
2. The Rockets have one Knick pick and can swap for another. Unless you think the Knicks are going to finish ahead of the Rockets, that’s a great situation to be in. The Nets have five picks in 2012—their own first rounder and the Warriors protected 1-7, their own second rounder and the Bulls and Heat second rounders, which will be low, low, low. Give the Nuggets all five. When you have a rich owner, you can always buy a pick.
If KMart is injury prone...
Then Houston does not have the goods without Brooks.
Murph, TWil, James and picks is better than anything Houston can do without Brooks or Martin.
And If I was Melo, I would fear that Yao is not going to be there for very long.
And I would fear that I would be losing my trophy wife, who might be spending most of her time in New York as part of some pseudo marriage. Of course the sports writers don’t consider those things.
so be it.
Murphy+TWill+James+Hump+All Nets 2012 picks for Carmelo+Afflalo
"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'"
by jasperjarrod on Aug 29, 2010 6:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't we have 15?
Including Zoubek,May and Uzoh? If we needed 2 more we could always sign Hayes and maybe Boone if he is available.
"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'"
by jasperjarrod on Aug 29, 2010 8:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is a very tough decision
to make…wow i mean melo would be great on this team. I always wanted melo, granger, or rudy gay on this team…but man im starting to really like the way the current nets roster is built. The thing is this, we should at least see what these guys can do before we make any trades. Say we trade favors and he ends up being the best PF in the league or T Will turns into an all star. Damion James a stud, Brook Lopez the best Center in the league behind Dwight. Harris back to all star shape, we have too many pieces. The only way I would trade Devin Harris is if we get TY LAWSON in return. I would however do this trade if it were possible; Terrence Williams, Damion James, 1round pick, for Melo or DH, TWILL, 1 rounder for Lawson and Melo… i dunno this is tough
No way Melo goes to Houston
I’d put $100 on it right now that they aren’t even an option.
I don’t care what reports say.
Yao is done...
And Brook Favors combo could be the best for the next decade.
Screw Melo unless the price is right.
I honestly believe
But I have no way of proving this, nor do I have access to verify this….
But I believe Melo could possibly be the single most important thing to Prokhorov right now, that he’d give up anybody to get him.
This is obviously a negotiation, but if it came down to us and another team, and all we needed to do was take back a player like Twill and give up a player like Lopez, they would do it.
He’s an owner who has a global vision. He won’t get a shot at someone like Melo in the next 5 years. This is his moment.
I think he acts. I’m not sure we’ll be happy with it. But I’m willing to side on the man who went from stone washed jeans, to one of the richest men in the world.
Time to start saying, in Proky We Trust?
I agree...and disagree
Yes, Prokhorov desperately wants a superstar for his global team, but he also wants a championship in 5 years. Not happening without legit center (Lopez), in my opinion.
Which would be important?
A go-to scorer who can take over a game and dominate/equal the other great player
Or
A solid big man who can give you points down low and provide a solid scoring option?
Melo is the bigger piece to the puzzle no question. A player like Lopez isn’t necessarily replaceable, but you can find serviceable big men.
You cannot find players like Melo.
agree
I just hope they can have both. Getting Melo helps with goal of championship, getting Melo and keeping Lopez helps with goal of creating dynasty.
I definitely cosign this
Best possible scenario is without a doubt a ten with Lopez and Melo.
by eLonepb on Aug 28, 2010 9:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I dont see why he'd go there either
Certainly wont stay if he winds up there.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 28, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It's from RealGm
There is Zero chance that Melo would agree to go to Minnesota. (Melo wants the S&T money).
Besides himself, it was written that the only climate where LaLa would consider that goes below 50 degrees in the winter is New York. I believe she wouldn’t like Sacramento either, and Melo would have to compete against those same Western teams, when he is an East Coast person anyway.
Thats the thing
Were competing against ourselves in a sense thats why Brook or Favors should not be needed for this deal, they don’t want him going to Houston competing against them every year. Were the most logical choice for every body involved, Denver gets its picks Melo gets sent out east case closed, Melo Favors Lopez.
exactly
give the picks and maybe either James or Williams
no need to do anything stupid for Melo. We aren’t desperate
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 29, 2010 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Love SI's Chris Ballard's quote
“Of the potential Melo destinations, I’m rooting for NJN, just for the uptick in awesome Prokhorov quotes”
link?
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 28, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
love from SI
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 28, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent why Denver wouldn't want Houston
Murph, James, Morrow, Ross (if needed), lots of picks for Melo and Smith.
by rundmc00 on Aug 28, 2010 9:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Its a done deal if you read the RealGm article. There is no way Melo does a sign and trade with Min or Sac. He wants to be in the east on a major team. Plus LaLa would be able to go back to work.
That means Denver is over a barrel. They are going to have to accept what the Nets give at this point. Like i said b4 we are in the position of power.
Murph, james and Hump + picks for Melo and afflalo. Or Murph and Twill + picks. I pray there is a condition on the trade that Murph is released.
I do the Twill trade if we get back afflalo. If denver is rebuilding they may gut the entire team.
Harris/farmar
morrow/afflalo
Melo/.outlaw
Favors/hump
Lopez/petro
The 4 spot once again will be an issue. We may have to make a move later in the season.
Honestly trading Murphy or Twill hurts the versatility of this team. We gotta get Murph back.
yeah
I’m all for this, but I’m holding firm on my stance: No Lopez or Favors.
If we trade them Murph, I hope they waive him and we can pick him back up.
No need to gut our team for Carmelo Anthony. As someone put it, we need to be able to stand up against Miami and Orlando over the next 4 years. Getting rid of Lopez or Favors would be counterproductive to that. I say we stand a lot better chance against them with Lopez, Favors, and Anthony up front than we do with whatever we’d be left over with. If we don’t trade, then we just stay the course with who we have and develop them.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 29, 2010 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I just worry if we get melo with outlaw on the team
the SF position alone will take up almost 30 alone how are resigning Lopez ?
someone will have to be prepared to pay the luxury tax?
I have no clue how it will work once the new CBA is established.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 29, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I may have the answer to the Jarvis Hayes situation that could change the equation of what to offer Denver
TheNetsFan posted elsewhere that he believes Nets could sign Jarvis to the balance of the Nets cap space since they own his rights.
I have calculated that Nets have 4.2 million cap space at this time (only 180,000 guaranteed to May+Zoubec+Uzoh).
That 4.2 million would then effectively be worth 4.2/0.75 = $5.6 million towards Melo’s salary.
Nets would need 17.15 x0.75 = $12.86 million – 5.6 million from Jarvis = $7.26 million. If you include Hump (3.2 million) that leaves only $4.06 from the Nets roster.
That means that Favors+Hump would do it. (Nuggets will have 2-3 bigs injured to start the season. They could use Hump since Favors will still be a project). There would be no need to include Harris or Murphy.
You may laugh at Favors + Hump + picks being enough to get Melo.
However, if Favors is indeed the most desirable player available on the teams that both Melo and Denver are considering, then usually, any peripheral players aren’t important.
Nuggets would be clearing lots of cap space too, with Hump and Hayes being expiring and Favors only counting $4.4 million to 2011 cap space.
I’m not necessarily in Favor of parting with Favors, but if Nets do, then I don’t want to also give away an extra valuable piece.
Nets may not have to after all.
correction, because I counted 0.25% of Hayes’ 4.2 million twice. Please add 1.4 million so that Nets would need (12.86-4.2) = 8.66 million in additional salary – 3.2 million for Hump leaves $5.46 million, not 4.06 million.
It Nets include Favors that would leave $5.46 – 4.13 = 1.33 million which is just beyond Ross’ salary.
Also, if Nets are just a little short on salary, I wonder if there is an option to re-negotiate someone’s contract, at the same time as formalizing a Melo trade?
If Nets needed a MAJOR savings in cap space in order to make a Melo trade work, then Murphy’s would be logical. If Nets were going to get Melo, there would no longer be any major need for cap space this summer. Murphy’s contract could be extended a year, at a lower rate.
If anyone needs a reminder why it would be very, very nice to have Melo, check out this video that someone posted earlier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBodecELR3g&feature=fvsr
It is Melo against the Nets from last November.
What a bad team with SWat and Boone as key players and TWill is clearly too small for SF.
Watching that video makes it easier to offer Favors for Melo. It would make Proky an instant success in his basketball endeavors.
Yeah Right ........
Take a closer look at the sidelines….See that little spec of a coach SCREAMING out orders…..Two words describes why Marsh Melo had his way with our Defense……Lawrence Frunke…..
No it doesn't
the point is to have Melo, Favors, and Lopez in the frontcourt so we can stand up to Miami and Orlando. We want to win, not keep our heads above water.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 29, 2010 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions
If we keep favors and get Melo
Favors is going to have to grow up realllllll fast fans aren’t going to be as patient with him
what i love about this clip
is carmelo’s passing. when you’re an elite scorer you create so many easy opportunities for other guys on your team. imagine how many dunks favors would get from carmelo feeds…
imagine something extremely witty here
Carmelo is by no means a willing passer, and for a guy who has the ball in his hands as much and whose offensive efficiency goes down come playoff time, it’s a major reason for concern, ‘cause scoring is all what he does, and if he’s struggling and unlike true superstars, he won’t make up for it with his ability to make other players around him bettter.
I thought it was tomorrow?
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Jerry25!
Just want to say i appreciate your posts with the # breakdowns and research done. Very informative stuff.

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