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Why the Nets should be considered a Playoff Contender, based on comparison with last season.

This post is prompted by the pessimism which supports NI's view of how Nets fans view things differently from Knicks fans (who are overly optimistic without any evidence from the past 10 years).

Nets of course won 12 games last year, but they also had major injury problems, especially early in the season.  They also had the worst coaching in the NBA for most of the season.

Now if the Nets instead had an average number of injuries (even the 1st game and thus the 1st losing streak can be attributed to an injury to Hayes) and if they instead had the best coach for them (Avery Johnson), I think it would be fair to give the Nets an extra 10 victories for last season.

I will use 12+10 = 22 victories as the base from last year's lineup (assuming average injuries and Avery as coach).

Now let's see how the players from this season compare with last year, to see if they can add to the 22 wins.

The 14 core players from last year were:

Lopez, Harris, TWill, Yi, CLee, CDR, Simmons, Hassell, Hayes, Dooling, Battie, Najera, Alston and Boone.

(You get the picture already, when looking at that sad core of a team.)

This year's core of 13 players (if SMay is healthy) should be:

Lopez, Harris, TWill, Outlaw, Murphy, Morrow, Favors, Hump, DJames, Petro, Farmar, Ross and May.

In every position, essentially player for player, the Nets should be better this year.

1. Lopez will have better coaching, a year of experience and a far better team so he isn't  always double teamed.

2. Harris should have the biggest improvement from last year as he basically took the year off due to lack of coaching, lack of team support and knowing that Management didn't mind if Nets were bad enough to get the #1 draft pick.

3. TWill will no longer be a rookie and will be given goals by Avery.  If TWill shows promise, he should become Avery's #1 personal student, just as Harris once was.  Still, how TWill does at SG is perhaps the biggest uncertainty.

4. Murphy will blow away Yi's performance from last year, including on defense (Murphy's weakness).  If Murphy was responsible for 13.7 wins last season, for Indiana (Dwyer article), imagine what he would do for the Nets! 

5-7. Next compare Boone, Najera and Simmons with Favors, Hump (overlap) and May at PF.  Overall, it is such a blowout at PF. 

I would conservatively add 14 victories from upgrades at the PF position.

8-9. Outlaw + DJames blow away Hayes + Hassell from last season.  At least 4 more victories.  We are up to 40 wins already.

10. Farmar should beat out Alston and equal Dooling at the backup PG. 

11-12  SG is the tricky position.  CLee was pretty bad on offense for more that 1/2 of last year, so I would give the edge to Morrow+Ross.  TWill will compete for the balance of minutes and may have an advantage of Dooling from last season. 

Overall, I would give the several extra wins at the Guard position, due mostly to Harris' expected improvement now that he has a real team to surround himself and motivation to win.  We are up to about 43 wins conservatively.

13. Petro is clearly better than Battie and Murphy can also play backup Center (besides Favors).  Nets should have a presence at Center for most of 48 minutes/game this year.  They lost many games last year where there was little production at Center in the 2nd half, especially the last 6 minutes. 

Nets should have another 4 wins due to improvement at the Center position, for a total of 47 victories.

Of course injuries could reduce that total, but pleasant surprises (DJames, TWill) could counter.

I don't think it would be easy to find an example where one team pretty much improved from positions 1-13 as the Nets have compared with last season.  You certainly don't end up with less than 37 wins with that kind of improvement.

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So many factors

Will the players turn out as you expect them? What if Harris remains the same? What if there are no pleasant surprises? What if TWill gets into Avery’s doghouse? What if we have a rash of injuries again? What if they don’t play well together?

A lot of other teams don’t have the improvement from 1-13 like the Nets because they didn’t replace all but 4 of their players. I’m sure the Knicks have a vast overall improvement compared to last year as well. The Heat.

Of course we’ll be better than last year, any team in the nba would be better than us last year. But a playoff contender? That’s a whole ’nother story.

by muwu on Aug 25, 2010 12:32 AM EDT reply actions  

If Harris and Lopez are healthy (pre-conditions), I really don't see many uncertainties other than how much better rounded TWill is over last year.

SG is the biggest uncertainty, but with CLee’s poor start to last season (with Dooling on the injury list), I don’t think Nets can be any worse that last year and there is a chance to be much better.

by jerry25 on Aug 25, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

SG is the biggest uncertainty

do u mean uncertainty on whos starting? because i think both men will put up great numbers

by New Deal on Aug 25, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, the uncertainty is can the Nets replace the defensive effort from CLee and Dooling. Avery may resort to using Ross for defense.

Offense will clearly be better this year, as Farmar and Harris could also play together.

Its not important whether TWill or Morrow start. They will figure that out later.

by jerry25 on Aug 25, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

But the Nets clearly made upgrades at all of their positions. In hindsight, they really Stunk last season, but still could have won 22 games with reasonable health and a great coach.

Miami is still weak at PG and terrible at Center (unless a scared Bosh is forced to play Center). Miami is better at PF with a major upgrade at SF – that’s it.

Knicks team was in flux all last year, so its hard to know what to compare with. Losing DLee, Harrington and Nate will subract a lot of victories. Turiaf is unproven in a starter role and Randolf is a much bigger uncertainty than TWill.

Nets will finish ahead of the Knicks – you can book it.

by jerry25 on Aug 25, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am hoping for Playoffs.

I think we are in the mix for the playoffs. I think it can happen, but it will not be a guarantee. Just want us to stay competitive in every game, can’t wait till October! By the way, if we win 48 games (you had us at 47) we would tie the second biggest turnaround in NBA history..

~AC24

by AC24 on Aug 25, 2010 12:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Wouldn't that be a nice story as the season progresses?

Still there are some here wishing the Nets don’t do well, just to get a better draft position.

Just proves the difference between Knicks and Nets fans.

by jerry25 on Aug 25, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

we are not getting 47 wins ...

the best we can hope for is getting 6th… getting 8th would be a complete waste even though its a personal accomplishment…. the thing is do we want a better draft pick or get swept by the heat!

by g_millz55 on Aug 25, 2010 12:52 AM EDT reply actions  

Proky disagrees with you.
Proky will send someone to Siberia if Nets don’t make the playoffs.

The Little General will follow his orders.

by jerry25 on Aug 25, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

the thing is do we want a better draft pick or get swept by the heat!

REALLY? the idea is to win games not get lottey picks eash year.

by New Deal on Aug 25, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

I love how you throw random numbers in to guess how much better our team this year is from last year’s team. Do you honestly think that we are going to get four wins from Petro? Yeah, Petro is sooooooooo much better then Battie. Also, Brook could easily see a reduction in his numbers since a double-double machine will be playing with him. I apologize, but saying that we will get 14 wins from just upgraded PF is also crazy. You have not factored in injuries. Instead, you used some odd mathematic equation like, “Murphy + Favors + Humphris (x overlap) + May = 14 more wins”. Once again, I apologize but these random numbers in recent post are driving me insane. Wait for the regular season to start!

by higgysmalls34 on Aug 25, 2010 1:53 AM EDT reply actions  

It so happens that Yahoo's Dwyer was able to assign 13.7 wins for Indiana due to Troy Murphy (32 mpg), so it can be done.

And I was conservative to ONLY assign 14 wins at PF, when Nets should be superior at PF for all 48 minutes.

And I DID consider injuries as a pre-condition. Even Miami may not make the playoffs if they have serious injiuries, but then people still make them a lock to win the East.

I didn’t assign 4 wins due to Petro. I assigned 4 extra wins Conservatively from the Center position, because Nets would be competitive there for most of 48 minutes (due to Lopez,Petro/Murphy/Favors) instead of 24-42 minutes as they were last year. Lopez’ total points/rebound totals are irrelevant as we know that other players will get theirs.

I believe this is a better approach, than what I read from nearly all of the “EXPERT” Analysts, who can’t possibly have the time to be as expert on 30 teams, as I am on just 1 team, from last year vs. this year.

And you may not like how I choose those numbers, but why don’t you complain when the “Experts” choose THEIR Win Total for the Nets without any analysis. They just pick their number out of their “A..”

And I can’t wait for the regular season to start too, so that what I believe will come true (barring serious injuries).

by jerry25 on Aug 25, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, but I just question your mathematics

Minutes per Game doesn’t single-handedly compute wins and losses. Also, Troy Murphy’s effectiveness may change from the different styles of play on the Indiana Pacers and the Nets. With likely less playing time because of Derrick “Sexual” Favors, his minutes and abilities will be limited. In addition, I can’t understand how Lopez and Petro (Favors and Murphy will RARELY play C) are any more effective over 48 minutes than Lopez and Battie from last year. Finally, I don’t complain from resources like ESPN, because they have over 93 reporters who can study each team. These people can breakdown this team, and compare it to other past teams, that we would be unable to compare the Nets to. In addition to their mathematics (in which their formulas are clearly stated), I can understand and respect their estimates.

by higgysmalls34 on Aug 25, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you are giving ESPN too much credit. People like Broussard (who wrote the recent prediction of 25th place) never claims to use anything other than opinion.

Hollinger does use some thought process and his own statistical analysis, but I feel it is better to actually watch all the games than to study numbers on paper.

Regarding the Center position, Avery is going to do whatever it takes to make sure that there are no gaps in performance for 48 minutes. Last year there was no option but to overplay Brook and usually he underperformed (partly teammates fault) during the second half (especially last 6 minutes when Hack-a-Boone went into effect).

And if Murphy is producing wins, Avery will continue to use Troy over Favors, unless Derrick is producing wins.
If Petro is better than Murphy at the Center position then he will probably be much better than anything the Nets had last year. Battie was so bad, even Kiki couldn’t stand to play him much.

I still feel that my “hand-on” analysis, from watching the team all last year, and knowing Avery’s winning attitude, is superior to any approach that ESPN uses, if at all.

I very much doubt that the ESPN reporters get together and compare notes, even though they may have some lower level staff to help out with statistics. The reporters are competing with each other for headlines. I’m unaware of any ESPN reporter who “specializes” on the Nets.

by jerry25 on Aug 25, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Not making the playoffs is not an option”
-proky

The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..

by silenthero07 on Aug 25, 2010 4:37 AM EDT reply actions  

i don't care how many wins..

as long as were in the playoffs.. proky would love that.

by njason21 on Aug 25, 2010 5:30 AM EDT reply actions  

I respectfully question your methodology.

It seems as if you are attempting to compute the basketball equivalent of what the baseball sabermetricians call “win shares,” which purports to measure how many additional wins a player provides to a team as opposed to how many games they would win were his spot filled by a “replacement player,” e.g., a fringe major league bench player or a non-prospect AAA player (think Mike Hessman or Chris Carter of the Mets). I could criticize you for pulling numbers out of your, um, posterior rather than relying on data, but the bigger problem is that the NBA data pool, Daryl Morey notwithstanding, is not nearly as large and sophisticated as that for MLB. But that seems to be changing, which is a good thing.

Also, even a star MLB player only adds 5 wins or so per season over a replacement player. Yet you assign an additional 14 wins just to the PF position in a season that has half as many games as MLB. That’s just not realistic, even though I agree that Yi to Murphy is a significant upgrade.

So, I think your forecast is wishful thinking and unduly optimistic—but it would be nice if it came true!

by madisonmetsfan on Aug 25, 2010 10:15 AM EDT reply actions  

But I cited a reference of Dwyer for as a base for the largest improvement at PF. I assume he didn't pull that number from his Rear, the way the ESPN Analysts do.

And I don’t think that the 22 win “corrected” base number for last year’s team is unreasonable (corrected for less injuries and if there was a great coach in place last year – eg Avery Johnson).

So the question is the addition of 9 1/2 new and promising players (Hump counts as 1/2) plus the growth of TWill, Lopez and the revival of Harris with a decent team and motivation, enough to account for 25 additional wins on a team that is assumed to have an average number of injuries?

Remember that Nets probably had the worst Forwards in recent NBA history last season. This year they may be average. That HAS to account for a lot of extra victories. And they were also terrible at Center, when Brook wasn’t playing.

However, if you want to be pessimistic, then assume only 15 additional wins, to give 37.

Even 37 wins is better than what a lot of Nets fans have posted here as predictions, not to mention the ESPN-Superstar-driven media.

If only I can convince some of the pessimists that predicting less than 37 wins is not supported by team that is place, then I will have accomplished something.

by jerry25 on Aug 25, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Still not good enough.

I don’t know what Dwyer relied on or how good his data was, but assigning 14 wins to a single NBA player not named “Michael Jordan” is absurd. But I’m blaming whatever Dwyer’s system is, not you. Remember, though, as bad as the PF spot was last year, it produced something. So even under that system, flawed though it may be, the upgrade is not Murphy’s 14 wins but the difference between that and however many wins last year’s PF crew produced.

And you have to admit your injury/coaching adjustment is not data-based, just a gut feeling. I’m unimpressed by the injury argument—every team has them to some degree, and blaming the Great Streak on the absence of Jarvis Hayes is unconvincing, to say the least. And while I absolutely agree that Avery is a far better coach than Kiki (so are you and me, probably), I submit that it’s all but impossible to quantify the number of wins that’s worth at the NBA level.

by madisonmetsfan on Aug 25, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I only assigned a total of 10 extra wins to cover BOTH a correction for the accepted excess in Nets injuries and for having the worst vs. the best coach.

That is reasonable.

And having watched the Knicks last year too, to some extent, it is reasonable to assign at least 15 extra wins (29 total) to David Lee, vs. having a poor PF such as Yi in his place. Yi is a nice reference point for a PF who doesn’t play defense or have good chemistry on offense.

The Jarvis Hayes freak injury is an example of 1 loss, but it certainly contributed to other losses and the whole mess last year.

by jerry25 on Aug 25, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

37 is not bad...

but its not enough to make the playoffs..and its not what proky aimed… so i guess we should be better than that.. will see..

by njason21 on Aug 25, 2010 5:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree that nets have upgraded tremendously from the previous team

But all teams have also changed composition and unless these team regressed, nets is still a bit off for playoffs..

Not that I mind that of course..Them being competitive is already a win for me

by atec on Aug 25, 2010 7:26 PM EDT reply actions  

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