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NetsDaily Off-Season Report #19

There are fans out there who (not us) some might classify as "Melo Yellow", those who are uncertain of Carmelo Anthony's value or afraid the Nets will give up too much should trade rumors become trade discussions become an actual trade.  We look at Melo's history and the history of superstar trades to see whether Brook Lopez and/or Derrick Favors might be included. We also start a new feature, the Prokhorov Money Watch, reveal the other international Net on the roster, and closer to home, examine the history of Jersey Guys on the Nets.  Also, we can't get enough of that Nenad Krstic chair-throwing incident.  I mean, really Curly!

Star-divide

Every Sunday, we’ll be updating the Nets’ off-season with bits and pieces of information, gossip, etc. to help take the edge off missing the playoffs, relying on the Nets’ beat reporters and others who have slipped interesting stuff into larger stories and blogs...not to mention our own reporting.

Melo Wins

No matter you want to say about Carmelo Anthony, he wins...period.

He is one of two active NBA players who have won an NCAA championship and an Olympic gold medal (as well as an Olympic bronze and a gold medal in the FIBA Americas Tournament).  Should he win an NBA title, he will be one of only seven players to ever complete that trifecta.  Of the other six, five are in the Hall of Fame...Clyde Lovellette, Bill Russell, K.C. Jones, Jerry Lucas, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. Quinn Buckner also completed that circuit.

Moreover, as Woody Paige of the Denver Post points out, he turned the Denver franchise around after being drafted in 2003.

"In Carmelo Anthony's seven seasons in Denver, the Nuggets have won 338 regular-season games, averaging just over 48 victories per season, finished first or second in the division six times, reached the playoffs in every season and advanced to the conference finals once (and, yes, lost in the first round all other years).

"In the eight seasons prior to Anthony's arrival, the Nuggets won 200 games, an average of 25 per season and NEVER made the playoffs."

Claims that he's not a winner are simply wrong. Beyond that, his former teammate, Johan Petro, says his passion and work ethic are inspirational.

What a Melo Trade Might Look Like

Sometimes we mine old data looking for new Nuggets (excuse the pun...or don't).  This time, we're going to take a look at the list of recent superstar trades to help figure out what a Melo trade might look like.

Below is a sampling of the trades of big stars (We included Kenyon Martin because we are a Nets site).  As we've noted in the past, stars are more often traded not for equal value, aka, other stars, but for a combination of what could be called rebuilding assets: young players, draft picks, expiring contracts and cash. 

The big question is whether the Nets would have to give up one of their two big young players, Brook Lopez and/or Derrick Favors, for Anthony.  If history is any judge, the answer is no.  Team acquiring the superstar resists doing that.  In each of the cases below, good young players or draft picks went in the other direction but with few exceptions, those good young players were not top picks still on their rookie contracts.  In fact, not one top five pick still on his rookie contract was traded away by any of these teams. 

Take a look...expiring contracts are marked with an asterisk and the players ultimately taken with traded picks are in parentheses.  Also, we provide more detail on the Nets transactions.

--June 25, 2009: The Orlando Magic acquired Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson from the New Jersey Nets for Courtney Lee, Tony Battie* and Rafer Alston*. The Nets also acquired two trade exceptions, one for $1.23 million [which was used to acquire Chris Quinn] and the other for $3.73 million [which was used to acquire Kris Humphries]. 

--June 25, 2009: The Cleveland Cavaliers acquired center Shaquille O'Neal* from the Phoenix Suns for forward/center Ben Wallace*, a second-round selection in the 2010 NBA draft (Dwayne Collins) and cash considerations.

--November 3, 2008: The Detroit Pistons acquired guard Allen Iverson* from the Denver Nuggets for guard Chauncey Billups, forward Antonio McDyess and center Cheikh Samb*.

--February 18, 2008: The Dallas Mavericks acquired Jason Kidd, Malik Allen*, and Antoine Wright* from the New Jersey Nets for Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop*, Trenton Hassell, Maurice Ager, a signed and traded Keith Van Horn*, two future first round picks (Ryan Anderson in 2008 and Jordan Crawford in 2010), and cash considerations believed to be $3 million. The Nets also received a $3.3 million trade exception [which was used to sign and trade Keyon Dooling].

--February 6, 2008: The Miami Heat acquired Marcus Banks and Shawn Marion from the Phoenix Suns for Shaquille O'Neal.

--February 2, 2008: The Los Angeles Lakers acquired Pau Gasol and a 2010 second round draft pick (Devin Ebanks) from the Memphis Grizzlies for Kwame Brown*, Javaris Crittenton, a signed and traded Aaron McKie*, the draft rights to the #48 pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, Marc Gasol, and two future first round picks, (Donte Greene in 2008 and Greivis Vasquez in 2010).

--July 31, 2007: The Boston Celtics acquired Kevin Garnett from the Minnesota Timberwolves for Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green*, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff*, Sebastian Telfair, the return to Minnesota of the future first round pick that was initially traded to Boston on January 26, 2006 (Jonny Flynn), and a future first round pick from Boston (Wayne Ellington). Simultaneous with the trade, Kevin Garnett removed his ability to opt out after the 2007-2008 season and then signed a multi-year contract extension with the Boston Celtics which begins in the 2009-2010 season.

--June 28, 2007: The Boston Celtics acquired Ray Allen and the draft rights to the #35 pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, Glen Davis, from the Seattle Supersonics for Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West, the draft rights to the #5 pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, Jeff Green, and the better of Boston's own 2008 second round pick and Portland's own 2008 second round pick (Trent Plaisted).

--December 19, 2006: The Denver Nuggets acquired Allen Iverson and Ivan McFarlin* from the Philadelphia 76ers for Andre Miller, Joe Smith*, and two 2007 first round draft picks (Daequan Cook and Petteri Koponen).

--February 23, 2005: The Philadelphia 76ers acquired forwards Chris Webber, Michael Bradley* and Matt Barnes* from the Sacramento Kings for forwards Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson and Brian Skinner.

-- December 17, 2004: The New Jersey Nets acquired Vince Carter from the Toronto Raptors in exchange for Alonzo Mourning, Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and two first-round draft picks (Joey Graham and Renaldo Balkman).

--July 15, 2004: The New Jersey Nets signed Kenyon Martin to a seven-year, $91 million contract with a $1.5 million signing bonus and a player option after the 6th season, then traded him to Denver for three future first round picks (Joey Graham, Renaldo Balkman and Marcus Williams). The Nets also received a $5.2 million trade exception [which was used to acquire Marc Jackson after the Shareef Abdur Rahim deal fell apart.]

--July 14, 2004: The Los Angeles Lakers traded Shaquille O'Neal to the Miami Heat for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant*, a 2006 first round draft pick (Jordan Farmar) and a 2007 second round pick (Renaldas Seibutis).

The best young players --not draft picks or draft rights but players-- moved in those nine deals were: Devin Harris for Jason Kidd, Al Jefferson for Kevin Garnett and Lamar Odom and Caron Butler for Shaquille O'Neal.  All but Butler were on their second NBA contracts and in two of the cases --Harris and Jefferson-- the young players were expendable, even extraneous, because the players coming back played the same position they did.  That leaves Butler.  Drafted at #10 in 2002, he had an excellent rookie year then regressed in his sophomore year, hurt by injuries. He is the exception, but then again 'Melo isn't Shaq.

So if Lopez or Favors were included in a deal for Anthony, it would not fit with the recent history of big trades.  And note as well that this would most likely have to be a sign-and-trade, meaning Anthony would have to agree to go along.  Is he likely to agree to a lop-sided trade where his new team would be giving up key pieces? You'd think so.

Prokhorov Money Watch

There was more evidence this week that Mikhail Prokhorov is spending money on the Nets.  Beyond the net payout of $10.5 million in the Troy Murphy-Courtney Lee trade, there was word from ShamSports that the Nets had given out $185,000 in "limited salary protection" to Sean May, Brian Zoubek and Ben Uzoh: $100,000 to May, $50,000 to Zoubek and $35,000 to Uzoh.  It's the first time since 2007 that the Nets have used partial guarantees to bring in free agents...and the total is more than nine times what the Nets gave Robert Hite back then.

We don't know how much Prokhorov has spent--or committed--since taking over May 12, but the number is increasingly significant.  Yes, he saved some money in the switch-off between Rod Thorn ($5.5 million) and Kiki Vandeweghe ($1.75 million) for Billy King ($2 million) and in taking on three coaches--Avery Johnson, Sam Mitchell and Larry Krystkowiak--who are still being paid by their former teams.  But he also paid out $3 million in the Yi Jianlian salary dump and agreed to pay the NJSEA $4 million to break the team's lease on the IZOD and was willing to front load the contract offers for Anthony Morrow and Tyrus Thomas.  That's in addition to the hiring of new assistant coaches, scouts, a rehab specialist and other support staff or the purchase of state-of-the-art video and training equipment.

Something we'd like to see next: the locker room improvements at the PNY Center and the new locker room at the Prudential Center, which we are told Prokhorov is taking a personal interest in.

The Other International Net

With the FIBA World Championships about to begin, three Nets will be watching most closely.  Brook Lopez is one of course. He had to drop out off Team USA because of the effects of mononucleosis. Johan Petro, a former member of the French National Team can be expected to watch "Les Bleus" compete on the world stage. 

Then there's rookie Ben Uzoh.  American-born Uzoh has toyed with the idea of playing with the Nigerian National Team, even holds a Nigerian passport, reports ShamSports.  His parents, Francis and Caroline Uzoh, were born in Nigeria and that parentage qualifies him as a member of the team. They could have used him. Nigeria, traditionally one of Africa's top teams, didn't make the Worlds this year.   It wouldn't be a big stretch to see Uzoh in international competition in the future.  In the 2008 Olympics, eight of 12 members of Team Nigeria and the coach were U.S. citizens.  In international basketball, it happens.

Not the Nenad We Knew!

Wow, what can we say. Nenad Krstic, that sweet Serbian kid with the neato nickname ("Curly"), has a dark side.  Krstic was taken into custody overnight Thursday by Greek authorities after the 27-year old grabbed an opposing player by the throat and threw a chair that drew blood of another Greek player. A  fight broke out between Greece and Serbia during a "friendly" (maybe that terminology needs updating) match in front of a crowd of  5,000 fans at the Athens Olympic Arena in Greece.

FIBA is expected to take disciplinary action against Krstic who expressed no remorse.  It's not out of the question that the NBA will too. Who knew?

Jersey Boys

We recall reading a few years back that Malik Allen of Willingboro H.S. was the 13th New Jersey native to play with the Nets.  So that would make Troy Murphy, of Sparta and Delbarton School, the 14th, if our recollection is correct. Unless of course you count Brian Zoubek of Haddonfield H.S. who was signed to a non-guaranteed deal before the Nets traded for Murphy.  So who are the others?  We can think of most, with some help from Basketball Reference: Mike O'Koren, of Jersey City and Hudson Catholic H.S.; Tate George, of Newark and Union Catholic H.S. in Scotch Plains; Roy Hinson, of Trenton and Franklin Township H.S.; Eric Murdock, of Trenton and Bridgewater-Raritan H.S.; Chris Gatling of Elizabeth and its high school, Bill Willoughby of Englewood and Dwight Morrow H.S.; Rafael Addison of Jersey City and Snyder H.S.; and Eric Williams, of Newark and Malcolm X Shabazz H.S.  Then there's three guys born out of state, but who grew up and played high school ball in New Jersey: Rory Sparrow of Paterson East Side H.S.; Dave Wohl of East Brunswick H.S.; and Edgar Jones, of Barringer H.S. in Newark.  Do they count?  We missing anyone?

What about those 1973-74 ABA champions that featured four Jersey guys: Bill Melchionni of Cherry Hill and Bishop Eustace H.S.; Billy Paultz of River Edge and River Dell H.S.; Brian Taylor of Perth Amboy and its high school, and bench warmer Rich Rinaldo of Jersey City? What about them and Rick Barry of Elizabeth and Roselle Park H.S.?  Do they count? They played for the Nets but never actually played for the Nets in New Jersey.  We await a ruling and a full accounting.

Final Note

The Nets are gathering back in New Jersey.  Devin Harris announced last week he was back, via Twitter, of course.  The four rookies have been around most of the summer, as has Terrence Williams, who's been spending time with his sons and his mother (who he's buying a new house for) in Seattle. 

And so as summer starts to wind down for all of us (five more Off-Season Reports!), we leave you with this tweet photo from Sean May, who is honeymooning in Turks and Caicos. See you soon, Sean.

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Great read as usual

But isnt Sean May’s right big toe look broken?

by danxcr on Aug 21, 2010 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Sweet Oden's Raven

Somebody get a doctor to do something about Sean May’s big toes!

Consequences will never be the same.

by NetsMets4Life on Aug 21, 2010 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

lol

The pic looks picture perfect tho, I could use that vaca right about now smh look at the water.

by Atronic on Aug 21, 2010 5:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Turks & Caicos is great

Had the chance to go a few years ago. But I wouldn’t recommend going with a bunch of bachelors – it’s a romantic, quiet type island.

by eLonepb on Aug 21, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

When comparing players that are received back in past trades, honestly

when aged stars are being traded for they should be stricken from the list. Melo just turned 26 in May. What you back for a 31 year old KG, or a 33 year old Iverson, or a 37 year old Shaq, or a 34 year old Kidd really isn’t the same kind of expectation

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 21, 2010 5:53 PM EDT reply actions  

I think you are better to consider the perceived value versus the age

KG, Shaq, Kidd and probably even Iverson (foolish GM) were looked at as the missing piece to a championship. KG delivered. Shaq delivered in Miami and Kidd was certainly picked up by Dallas to deliver a championship. I am certain Orlando did not acquire VC to sell tickets. He was acquired to bring a ring.

And while we may all think a younger star means multiple championships, the reality is all these trades where made to deliver a title – regardless of the player’s age – and they would have been valued as a title maker when giving up assets.

by Jay-dub on Aug 21, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is also why Orlando and Houston should be prepared to give up more

Houston is on the last legs with Yao so win now. Orlando needs to get past Celtics today and Miami for the next few years so they need a championship caliber scorer to take pressure of Dwight (VC, Lewis and Nelson are not Melo’s category right now).

by Jay-dub on Aug 21, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. What is different in this case is that there are a set of teams that are competing for Melo, and thus competing offers. This was not often the case in the examples NI tries to draw on. For instance with Pau Gasol who was perhaps the closest in age to Melo nobody seemed to know he was even being shopped.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 21, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are talking about the perceived value of the receiving team, not the giving team. Obviously if you are giving up a player who hasn’t even reached his prime (not to mention that the Melo example is one which teams will compete with each other over offers), you are going to want a similar player (in potential) in return. If you are trading Kidd or Shaq late in career, there just are not “similar” players. Come on now, when the Nets traded Carter there was no chance they were going to be asking for someone like Brook Lopez.

But your argument that these trades were to deliver a title also suggests that they make very poor parallel cases. Anthony is not the final piece of the Nets (though the Knicks might think he is).

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 21, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

He could easily be the Nets final piece

and you can bet they feel that way. But your point about age has validity, although all those guys are among the game’s greatest of all time.

by Net Income on Aug 21, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

So how would he be

the final piece if they would have to trade Harris, becuase they would need Murphy more if they got Melo than Harris or who would you trade before Oct 25.
Favors is a three Year developement if you’ve said final piece and you thought he was going to be traded during the season I would have agreed with you the Nets could give up Outlaw instead. Is he the Final piece even if you trade Devin and James and/or T-Will.

Unless the Nets got him in Free Agency, but would he leave all that money on the table?

by JJ25 on Aug 21, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet at the trading deadline

I think Denver with all their expiring contracts including the coach will opt for one more run at a title. If they see no hope they will move Melo. Otherwise how do you give up on one more chance just to rebuild and try again 5 years later. The risks are low as contenders will line up with their best deals at the deadline to get Melo and non-contenders (NETS) will want to get him before he becomes a free agent – his value to the Nuggets should not drop between now and the trade deadline unless he is injured. Plus there is that messy issue of the no GM in Denver. And Melo should play hard because he is playing for a max (maybe even a max to stay with Denver).

by Jay-dub on Aug 21, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

This is like the Chris Paul talk. Do you think their new GM’s very first move will be trading their star player? Nah. And Paul supposedly asked for a trade. Anthony didn’t. What was Dell Demps’ 1st move? A trade whose goal was trying to make his star happy.

All this nonsense started because of Stein’s article reporting that one way or another Melo would leave Denver. But that doesn’t necessarily meant they will trade him before the season started. Indeed, if you watched Stein talk in ESPN, he said Melo IS STILL WEIGHING Denver’s extension proposal.

Larry Coon said Melo will sit with Denver’s new GM. I guess he would like to be told what the new GM’s plans are and see if there’s a good future there. Looks like the Paul situation. We’re speculating like if there were offers made already, and Denver doesn’t even have a GM. Neither do we know if he will want to trade Anthony, at least right away. Kerber said Nets insider believe they’ll wait til mid season unless they are totally convinced there’s no chance he re-signs. And, again, Stein reported he’s still weighing that option.

Look at Amare’s situation last year. The Suns hold onto him, even tho they risked to lose him for nothing (like they finally did). If Denver is doing well, I doubt Denver blows it up. If they’re struggling, they will trade him by mid season, IMO.

All this situation has been overblown. ESPN and the media needs something to talk about. A few weeks ago it was Paul, now it’s Anthony’s turn.

Just my 2 cents.

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

And after holding on Amare, the Suns made it to the CF and almsot surprised the Lakers. If Denver is doing fine, I thinkthey’ll give it another try and see what happens in the playoffs, and then see if they can re-sign Melo in the summer, as they’d be the team that could give him the best contract.

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 5:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

KMart and Anderson

will be out for “months” perhaps. Then after this season, KMart, Anthony and JR Smith are all free agents. Nene is once again hurt, having been removed from the Brazilian National Team roster yesterday. This is NOT a team built for either the present or future.

by Net Income on Aug 22, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

He could easily be the Nets final piece

Final piece for a championship team?

Uh, he wasn’t even really close to a final piece for a MUCH better, MUCH better defensive team than the Nets. He is not even close to the Gold level player needed to win Championships, and the Nets are wasting their money if they think they are buying such a player.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 21, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Also, if you think he is a “final” piece for the Nets, I guess you also would expect him to be a final piece for the Knicks as well.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 21, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well brook is young and so is favors

i would think he means melo “can” be the final big piece assuming favors lives up to expectations and BRook gets better ( both would have to come true) that would be 3 all-star type players. A lock down SG and a quality PG that I think is a Team that can compete with Lakers or Heat

by nwkiddnj on Aug 21, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

final piece

not the IMMEDIATE piece.

With Lopez, Favors and Anthony upfront, the Nets could have, within a year, the best front court in the NBA. No guarantee Harris would go. Expect he would, but you never know.

The Knicks are nowhere near finality. They have a bench to deal with.

by Net Income on Aug 21, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can’t win until we do

by YehYeh on Aug 22, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Nets should be among the worst defensive teams in the NBA this year (bottom 1/3). They added a PF who is a defensive liability. You simply do not win championships without being a top 1/3 defense, if not better. Denver has an excellent defensive/rebounding team and Melo couldn’t get him over the top.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 22, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doubt it

Avery and his stuff will have them playing as a team and there is enough individual talent to be middle of the pack this season.

by Jay-dub on Aug 22, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course you doubt it. You are a Net Fan who cheers.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 22, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you!

So true. We give up Twill, Harris for Anthony we took a huge step backwards defensively, we’ll have Brook/Favors and a bunch of matadors out there.

by adronaline on Aug 24, 2010 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

He has a point read the comment above

Its no Secret the fate of this franchise is kind of riding on Favors. If he lives up to expectations our strength would obviously be our 2 bigs if you add Melo, that would give you All-stars at the SF,PF,C position. Lets assume we dont have to give up both Harris and T-Will, if we have harris that is 4 allstar type players. If you Keep T-will if you have a New PG that can Drain 3’s and T-will steps up defensively will be a great line up (this is assuming Brook gets better and Favors lives up to the Hype) Its not crazy talk

by nwkiddnj on Aug 22, 2010 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

None of these guys are the caliber needed for a Championship level team.

Even if Favors turns into McDyess (which alone would take a min of 3 or 4 years), that still is not of the level needed. You need gold level talent, and at MOST you have Bronze level.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 22, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The deal that stands out the most not aquring a 30 year old is

the ex-NET Vince Carter he was traded for nothing basically Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, Alonzo Mourning, and 2 picks if the Nets themselves can get a deal like that done for Carmelo it would be huge a package of:
Harris
James
Hump
Ross
2 Picks

for

Melo
Lawson

I think ythe Nets would win no doubt will the Nuggets accept that deal or will they Force the Nets to throw in T-Will and some for Picks for the star Proky is waiting for(Melo?).

by JJ25 on Aug 21, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you Lawson's agent, girlfriend, cousin......?

You really love this guy. Is Melo the target or the throwin?

by Jay-dub on Aug 21, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

All I said is if you trade

Harris you need another PG don’t you think?
If the Nets can find a way to keep Harris Im good with that too.

by JJ25 on Aug 21, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Denver is not giving away Lawson, they are very high on him. Harris makes 9 mill, they don’t need him.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 21, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Billups is a free agent if he wants to Next season and is 34

Harris is 27 he is a good trade asset and “allstar” if the Nets trade for Melo how are they going to get it done if Sources say he might get traded before the season. The cap doesn’t match up and Murphy isn’t going anywhere until Oct 11 or at all. Denver could be high on Lawson but so what they get Harris.

by JJ25 on Aug 21, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Denver is not giving away Lawson. They have multiple trading partners. They don’t have to.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 21, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't this site to comment on the subject

Net Income keeps talking about how melo will probably get traded before the season that is the best package the Nets have without giving up to much and im just posting my opinion/what i would want or what could happen I don’t go to your comments and ask reckless questions “Are you his cousin are you his girlfriend are you this are you that” come if you don’t like don’t reply it’s that simple don’t post questions like is Melo a throwin or a Center piece of the deal no dobt he is the center piece of the deal man don’t ask questions like that. I don’t have to make promises over not posting what i want to.

by JJ25 on Aug 21, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Post away

I like the variety of views on this site. I was commenting on the fact that you have posted the same trade on several threads and you seem very enamored of Lawson.

I personally do not see Denver wanting to take Devin unless they feel he can be moved for another piece. I think they will keep Billups for veteran leadership and fan appeal – likely with a swap like the RJ deal – one big year for a few smaller years. This allows them to keep and develop Lawson as the future PG. Therefore I think our best deal is without Devin (I also think he is a key piece for the NETS and would hate to see him go).

by Jay-dub on Aug 21, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Therefore I think our best deal is without Devin (I also think he is a key piece for the NETS and would hate to see him go)."

LMAO I can easily say your enamored of Harris and ask you the question is he your boyfriend or cousin, but im not going to becuase it sounds dumb to say anyone is enamored with anyone basketball related I just use this for fun and talk about the Nets I don’t know about you the only thing im enamored/like are women so when you wrote you seem enamored with Lawson I just laughed whatever man. I don’t care what anyone thinks if I want to i’ll post away write the most reckless stuff agian and again its just for fun don’t get all worked up. If we didn’t get Lawson who cares or Melo I got more important stuff to do they aren’t paying me Millions to watch them or to be a fan. I wouldn’t mind if you wrote the same thing 100 times its not affecting me in anything so why do you or anyone else care. The only reason I put lawson on the trade proposals is becuase I trade away Harris in them so they would need another Point Guard thats it.

by JJ25 on Aug 21, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

ooookkkkkk....

Step away from the window…..slowly……slowly

by Jay-dub on Aug 21, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

@jj25

Sorry about that last comment – it sounded funny in my head but reads ugly.

by Jay-dub on Aug 21, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

smart thing to do IMO

especially when draft picks can be purchased

lol @ the owner being rich

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 22, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Five offseaon reports.. Yes. Got to watch nets bball.

"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.

by Andy. on Aug 21, 2010 6:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Regarding Jerssy Boys

Does Pat Sullivan qualify? He was a great NJ high school player who coached for the Nets.

by ispartan on Aug 21, 2010 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

http://www.njherald.com/story/sports/081010-BBK-Jent
I think Spanarkle qualifies as a Net. The link is for an article about Sparta, NJ second best bballer, Chris Jent. I don’t think he has Nets association but he was Lebron’s shooting coach.

by ispartan on Aug 21, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The pre melo record really should show all the haters what Melo can do… doubt it will.

by Tim823 on Aug 21, 2010 8:39 PM EDT reply actions  

one thing i noticed

in doing the big trade analysis is how overvalued FUTURE draft picks are.

go through that list and find me a significant player who emerged from fuure traded picks….not counting the players whose RIGHTS were traded in draft night deals. Those picks are almost always made by the team that’s trading the star away…i.e. Jeff Green.

And other thing: the Kidd trade was probably the best deal for the team trading a star, in that he has not delivered what Dallas wanted and the Nets wound up with a lot of assets, The Iverson deal sucked, but it’s hard to blame King. Philly president announced they would deal Iverson asap, dropping his value.

by Net Income on Aug 21, 2010 9:19 PM EDT reply actions  

The grass is not always greener on the other side.......

I don’t think that JKIDD is to happy in Dallas…….He’s not too good at playing the second fiddle…..When he came to the Nets he had a chance to prove what he was made of by bringing a basement team to the Top………First priority in Dallas is getting Nowitski the ball…….Boy , How I wish we had JKIDD here now running this young Nets team…….

by NetFan48 on Aug 21, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

has not delivered what Dallas wanted

You could say that about 31 other teams…

by Tim823 on Aug 21, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except Dallas thought he was the one missing piece

It is why Rod got the best deal of anyone selling a superstar. Because Dallas thought either Kidd delivered himself (taking the leadership pressure off Dirk) or by attracting other big name free agents. Neither has worked.

by Jay-dub on Aug 22, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but there are a lot of teams that are close. Only one can win it. My point being is there are 31 disappointed teams, not matter what anyone can think about it. Dallas is pretty close and it hasn’t “worked,” but think about how many other teams are sin situations that haven’t “worked.”

by Tim823 on Aug 22, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

trading draft picks..

means another rookie photoshoot..

by njason21 on Aug 22, 2010 12:14 AM EDT reply actions  

26yo Melo >>> 32yo Ray Allen
—June 28, 2007: The Boston Celtics acquired Ray Allen and the draft rights to the #35 pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, Glen Davis, from the Seattle Supersonics for Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West, the draft rights to the #5 pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, Jeff Green, and the better of Boston’s own 2008 second round pick and Portland’s own 2008 second round pick (Trent Plaisted).

That’s why it’s fathomable that we’d have to give up Favors. The Celtics gave up the 5th pick for a clearly declining Allen. Obtaining Melo in his prime is worth significantly more.

by TheNetsFan on Aug 22, 2010 12:27 AM EDT reply actions  

I think this is the Real Debate

This is what im unsure about. What to give up for Melo and what he can be had for. With the Right pieces im pretty sure he can compete for a championship

by nwkiddnj on Aug 22, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

that was a draft day deal

its a lot easier giving up a pick on draft day.

by Net Income on Aug 22, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

With all this talk about Anthony, this site is starting to look like a Knicks forum

smh

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 5:27 AM EDT reply actions  

No matter you want to say about Carmelo Anthony, he wins…period.
Claims that he’s not a winner are simply wrong.

“period”?
“wrong”?

Those points have already been addressed.

College basketball or Olympic games have little (if anything at all) to do with a player’s NBA career. And Melo helped Denver turn the situation around but he didn’t put them over the top. That is the facts you have to look for. He has never put any NBA team over the top. So Im sorry but he’s not our final piece.

I say trade Favors for Juan Dixon (is the guy still in the league? LOL).

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 5:34 AM EDT reply actions  

period wrong

period wrong

FACTS. Period.

I guess you think that Kevin Garnett who never got out of first round til he was 29 was not a winner either. How about Jason Kidd, whose team went to the second round once (with him on the bench) before he joined the Nets? You wouldn’t have wanted them because they were losers?

When a player joins a woeful franchise, one that hadn’t had a winning record in seven years, hadn’t gone to the playoffs in seven years, had won 25 games a year over seven years and then leads them to seven straight winning seasons, goes to the playoffs seven straight years and averages 48 wins a year over seven years (a combination that Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh couldn’t match in those same seven years) , they are winners, by any definition.

Try as you might, you cannot get beyond the facts…and they are facts. They are not opinion. They are facts. You should learn the difference.

by Net Income on Aug 22, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fact: The same year they drafted Melo, the Nuggets also signed Andre Miller. Camby had played just 29 the year before. Some years later, they’d add Martin, Smith, Iverson, Billups… I guess those things have nothing to do with Denver’s improvement.
Fact: Anthony has advanced to the second round ONCE in his career.
Fact: Anthony never got out of the first round until the Nuggets traded for Billups
Fact: Bryant has won 5 rings; Wade on. Melo zero.
Fact: LeBron James has led his team to the finales once. Melo? zero times.
Fact: James led his team to 60+ seasons twice. Melo? zero times.
Fact: Bryant and James are MVPs. Melo isn’t.
Fact: Bryant and Wade are Finals MVPs. Melo isn’t.
Fact: Garnett had already won an MVP award before the Celtics traded for him.
Fact: Thanks to the fact they faced Melo’s Nuggets, the Clippers won their first playoff series in 30 years. Melo couldn’t even lead his team beat the Clippers in the first round. ’Nuff said.

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

more facts

fact: Anthony has never been named to the All NBA 1st team.
Bryant? 8 times.
Wade? twice.
James? 4 times.
Garnett before joining the Celtics? 3
Kidd before being traded to the Nets? 3

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait Andres, are you talking about Lebron or Melo?

by Tim823 on Aug 22, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because James had the best team in the NBA 2 years in a row and at the end of the day… James and Melo are both high fiving each other on their ringless fingers.

by Tim823 on Aug 22, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

what?

James had a crappy supporting cast. Melo has been better surrounded. This year, we’ll find out how great was Lebron’s teammates in Cleveland.

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nuggets were 8-5 last year without Melo.

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you think he had a bad supporting cast then I dont know what else to say.

by Tim823 on Aug 22, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

instead of Comparing him to guys like James or Wade

I will Compare him with a guy like Pierce. He was THE man on that Celtics team, Never was a first teamer never won a NBA MVP award. But he had Great BIgs and great coaching. Lets not Forget Melo is only 25 years old

by nwkiddnj on Aug 22, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

it's NOT me the one who started comparig him to those guys

I will say the Pierce comparison is interesting tho and I concede you have a point there. I already said Melo could have a Gasol type of impact. But again, I still have my doubts re his team mentality and how he could fit the Robin role. Both Pierce and Gasol are more smart and team oriented players than Melo.

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well you are right you didnt compare him to them

But you have said he cant win a championship. So thats what i was trying to get at, That you dont need a top 5 player to win a championship. People Say Detroit was the only exception to the rule. But no one on that celtics team was a Top 10 player. Garnet past his prime (still very good) and Pierce was never a top 10 player. Melo Doesnt make it a sure thing that we will reach the Finals, But he can be THE man on a championship team if you surround him with a Cast like the Celtics Surrounded Pierce. nd he’s only 25, Jordan wasnt so team Oriented in his early days. His flaws an easily be fied, That being said i would only mae a trade for him for the right prie

by nwkiddnj on Aug 22, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Garnet past his prime (still very good) and Pierce was never a top 10 player.

In 2007 Garnett finished 3rd in league MVP voting, Melo has never finished higher than 6th.

The Celtics were adding one of the best defensive players in the league:

2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

None of the players on the Nets are even close to Garnett’s caliber (nor Pierce’s) Garnett was an elite player when he came to the Celtics.

If you want to tell me that you are going to add Melo AND a first team all defensive PF who rates as a MVP candidate, then you have something. But Melo by himself is nothing

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Aug 22, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

The year after NeNe missed the whole season

Camby missed half the season and Martin played only 55 games Nuggets still won 45 games. 1st in the Division

Are you against getting Melo all together or you just worried we will give up to much for him?

by nwkiddnj on Aug 22, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

non responsive as usual

Whatever others have done does not denigrate what Anthony has done.

How many players do you think, of the 600 or 700 players who have played in the NBA since 2003 have made the playoffs every year? You think that is an insignificant achievement?

I can think of a few: Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Kidd, Billups, Nowitzki, and Martin (who missed two seasons worth of games). Bryant didn’t, James didn’t. O’Neal didn’t. Nash didn’t. Bosh didn’t. Garnett didn’t. Pierce didn’t. Gasol didn’t.

Your problem is that you deny his achievements while making arguments to support others. That is intellectually dishonest.

HE WINS, period.

by Net Income on Aug 22, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not trying to denigrate him.

Just pointing out to FACTS that separate him some of the players you YOURSELF named to explain how great Melo is.

People here are saying he’s as good as Wade or James. Saying he isn’t o is not denigrating him.

And I don’t refuse to give him ANY credit for what he’s done. Go back and check my posts about him. I’ve already said I give him the credit he deserves for helping Denver turn the sittuation around. Just stop pretending it was all him or that he’s proved he’s a player of Lebron or Wade caliber.

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

he WINS

that is the point of this discussion. HE WINS on a scale that is not matched by many players in the NBA…only a handful.

by Net Income on Aug 22, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Durant sucks

According to your basis for great players.

Now you’ll tell me he’s just young.

by eLonepb on Aug 22, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

hey

if you want to compare a 3rd year player to a guy who’s been around for 7 years, go ahead…

When Durant is a 7th year player, then we’ll have a better idea idea.

Let me just say you this: in his third year Durant has accomplished something Anthony hasn’t in his entire career: to be named to the All NBA first team.

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anthony is the reason that Denver made the playoffs for the better part of the last decade,

We need a legit star scorer Andres…I think he’s worth bringing in as long as we don’t give up Favors or Lopez.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 22, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

about Durant

Durant, IMO will become a better player than Anthony in time.

That doesn’t take anything away from Melo, who would fit it in with this team and could help us do very big things.

"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."

by MrDollarBills on Aug 22, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is why following the Thunder model has it's limits

They lucked/sucked into Durant. You can follow there model unless you also find a stud……..Lopez?……favors? If you can get a stud like melo without gutting your team you have to do it.

by Jay-dub on Aug 22, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't "Rings Won" the absolute worst metric for evaluating players?

I mean, I’VE won just as many championships as Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony COMBINED, but if you had me play against them, I’m pretty sure I’d helplessly crap my pants and piss myself as they threw alley-oops to one another and knocked down half court threes while blindfolded.

The only fact that matters is that Carmelo Anthony is really really good at basketball. He’s won a lot of games, and if his TEAMS haven’t won playoff series against loaded LA and SA teams, so what? He’s still really really good and undoubtedly makes all his teams a ton better.

by Superstar25 on Aug 22, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’VE won just as many championships as Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony COMBINED

Seriously, I am NOT trying to reduce all to this. Not at all. Again, LeBron is an MVP caliber player, he has been named to the All NBA 1st team, and he has led his team deep into the postseason even if he has not won a ring. Anthony cannot say the same.

I’m just saying I cannot call a winner a guy who has failed in the playoffs the way Melo has done.

In no way am I saying he is a bad basketball player nor even a loser.

by Andres B on Aug 22, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

  • See directly below.

Again, 31 teams failed also. Getting beat by the champs year after year aint bad.

by Tim823 on Aug 22, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

2009 — defeated New Orleans, 4-1, first round
        defeated Dallas, 4-1, conference semifinals
        lost to LA Lakers, 4-2, conference finals

2008 — lost to LA Lakers, 4-0, first round

2007 — lost to San Antonio, 4-1, first round

2006 — lost to LA Clippers, 4-1, first round

2005 — lost to San Antonio, 4-1, first round

Dont know what happened to the rest of my post, but here is the basic jist of things(without the Lebron part, since things have disappeared). Sucks to be in the same bracket as Kobe and Duncan.

by Tim823 on Aug 22, 2010 1:13 PM EDT reply actions  

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