Nets' Cap Space Dwindling...But Team Has 2011 Free Agency Plans
by Net Income on Aug 15, 2010 10:12 AM EDT
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PrintA week ago, the Nets had the second biggest hoard of cap space in the league, at nearly $15 million. Now after acquiring Troy Murphy and losing Courtney Lee in that four-team deal, that hoard is down to $4.5 million...and it could go lower. Add in non- guaranteed deals for Sean May, Brian Zoubek and Ben Uzoh and the Nets could have as little as $3 million.
The Nets want to have $21 million in cap space by July. They already have $16.3 million in expiring pieces (Murphy, Kris Humphries, Quinton Ross) available for mid-season trades. The big questions of course are not about numbers, but what will the new collective bargaining agreement look like and will there even be a 2011 free agency if the owners lock the players out?
And who might the Nets be targeting with all that cap space? How about Carmelo Anthony? If he's available, reports Frank Isola of the Daily News, "Nets' minority owner Jay-Z has close ties with Anthony and is committed to signing him". Melo's not talking about his future beyond deciding what to do with that three year, $65 million contract extension Denver dropped on his desk.
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If the Nuggets do well this year
Melo’s out of the picture come summertime most likely. There isn’t really anyone else worth throwing big money to this summer, so building through the draft should still be our gameplan
I cannot imagine
the Nuggets waiting all year long for him to sign that deal. They would wind up in the same situation as Cleveland and Toronto. There’s a lesson here.
yeah
If Anthony doesn’t sign that deal by late January, they have to put him on the market.
And I fail to see them getting any value for him without the promise of him signing an extension upon the completion of a trade.
Denver is up the creek right along with New Orleans. These guys from that Olympic team are really something else.
The Nets obviously look into Anthony, but I don’t get too serious about him. Hopefully he proves himself to be more mature than Lebron James and Chris Bosh
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what
is your proposal for melo? what happens if the nets trade for him and he bolts to play with the knicks? you lose favors, picks, etc. for a half a year rental.
the Nets aren't dumb enough to do that though
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
the nets
are in a tricky situation now because it seemed that their plan was to build through the draf for the most part, but now with murphy imo they will be real good like 7 or 8 seed good, which means their pick will not be great and its hard to build through the draft with an average draft pick. the murphy deal although i love it for short term could hurt the nets long term than if they let favors develop and get a top 5 pick and possibly a potentail superstar in barnes. thats just my feelings please do not flag me.
We can build via the draft
and we also have to see what we have with Lopez, Favors, and Williams.
I’m not too sure that we’ll make the playoffs. If we win 35 games, we still have a chance in the lottery. I’d prefer not to go through the crap that we went through this summer with getting our hopes up for the #1 pick though. Whatever happens happens, and we go from there.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i
think the nets could make he playoffs bc of avery johnson. i think that man right there helps ALOT. at the worst i feel they will battle for the 8th spot. i doubt 7th seed but if favors develops quickly then it is possible.
it’s about development across the board, not just Favors.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
yes
obviousally, but this is the one guy who has all star potential besides lopez. i dont think harris is truly an all star pg although he did make the team one. troy murphy is ALWAYS hurt, when he does get hurt if he does indeed get hurt, favors will have to step up.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murphtr01.html
He’s averaged like 70 games a season for the last three years.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Murphy averaged 73 1/3 games over past 3 years, or about 90% of games. He started most of those games.
What Gallo isn’t talking about, is that with the Collison trade, New Orleans can not trade CP3.
Therefore Mello should see no chance of a threesome with Knicks, which pretty much kills his chances to want to go to New York (won’t make playoffs this season).
The Knicks will have less cap space
than the Nets unless they want to pull off one of their salary dumps. I’m sure Daryl Morey is available to rip them off one more time.
without
making that trade anthony randolph is not a knick…. neither is turiaf, buike, or gsw 2 second rounders.
why
did you delete that comment when you said melo grew up in brooklyn. realized you were wrong yet again?
LaLa was raised in Piscataway, NJ btw
she’s not a full blown NYer like folks like to portray her as, btw.
She does like her some Knicks though. Bad taste.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL @ Net Income
first post i’ve read this morning and i nearly spit my tea out over the keyboard. Zing!!
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
thats my point. every year he seems to miss atleast 9 or 10 games……
yes
chandler is fine. how bout harris and brook? did they find out what food was?
can chandler pass a drug test?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
9-10 games out of an 82 game season?
That is not a sign of a guy that is ALWAYS hurt. You tried to claim that Murphy is always injured, and the evidence shows otherwise. Fail.
If Murphy played 45-50 games a season you’d have a point, but you don’t. You came to that conclusion based off of your own opinion.
Worry about the reasons as to why the Knicks could not get insurance for Amare Stoudemire. That in itself should have you shook every time he steps out on the floor.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no
i meant always hurt. as in every year he always seems to get hurt……..
what NBA player doesn't get hurt during the season?
Injuries happen all of the time.
You incorrectly tried to paint Murphy as injury prone, and I posted a link that proved you dead wrong. Not playing a full 82 games does not make anyone injury prone, there are only a handful of players that get consistent minutes in the NBA that will play the full 82.
Straws. Grasping. Failing.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
say
what you want. i was simply saying every year he gets hurt and misses roughly ten games. thats all.
"10 GAMES"
is not “hurt all of the time”
we have a guy on a roster that qualifies for “hurt all of the time”. His name isn’t Troy Murphy.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Last three years, he has played 75, 73 and 72 games. I don’t think that’s a reason for concern.
Also, it’s a good sign that the last two years he’s had two of his 3 best years as a pro.
i
was just pointing out he very rarely plays a full season, so favors will have to step up during those games. when your a team fighting for thr 8th seed every games crucial.
okay, and?
we want Favors to get PT. We want him stepping up. This is why we drafted him.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
yes
exactly my point, which is why i was talking about how it is important for him to develop quickly bc murphy misses 10 games or so a year he will need to start those and every single games critical.
no
your point was trying to falsely paint Murphy as an injury prone player, and now you’re trying to change the subject.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
THIS...To MrDollarBills...
Nuggetts are offering this guy 21 million a year…..They haven’t won a Championship even with a nice team around him……I want to build through the Draft and chemistry and coaching…..IMO , the only player ever worth that much money would be Michael Jordan……..I’d be very happy being competitive , which we will be and another chance at a number one lottery pick would be great….I don’t want Carmelo , LeLiar ,etc…..Let the Knicks have him and his over paid salary…..I’d rather have Proky buy us our own TV/Cable Station and / or buy the MSG/Cable Network………..
by NetFan48 on Aug 15, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Obviously you don't make that trade
without a prior commitment from Anthony to sign an extension with the Nets.
Yes
they are going to take the best offer in my opinion the Nets best offer is (doubt they trade anyone else.)
Zoubek
Humpries
Outlaw( I think he is going to have his best year he is now a starter 15P 5R 2A)
Ross or Morrow
Uzoh or Farmar
And the 2011 first rnd Pick
for
Carmelo Anthony
Anthony Carter
by JJ25 on Aug 15, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't the Nuggets want to deal
Carmelo to the Nets in 2008 during the draft, the Proposed deal was
2008 first Pick
Richard Jefferson
for
Carmelo Anthony
Think it was Jefferson...
… for Deng and a first round pick.
agreed muwu
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point guys
Here We go again with JayZ
Now he friends with Melo and now he might get us melo i guess i wont believe it because it didnt work with lebron
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
"Proky:Make Playoffs 2010-11 season"
by Wall2KingJames on Aug 15, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry but I don't see Proky as the guy to either...
A) Rely on luck.
or
B) Tank a year to get luckier.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
he already tanked a year
he could have moved to take control before he did…but decided to wait til condemnation was final…vacant possession.
That's not tanking....
You do not become a billionaire by buying other peoples legal problems. You buy their assets cheap – and make certain they are free and clear when you get them.
Wait what?
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
NI suggests Proky "tanked" last season
He suggests that because Proky did not take control right away – before vacant possession was clear – that he gave up on last season.
My view is that he would have been foolish to do so. He had to wait to buy until the assets where clear otherwise he was buying legal problems not clear assets. So he did not tank last season he was just being a smart businessman.
their record says otherwise..
OR..they were just plain awful
either way works lol
I wouldn't sign him as a FA
and I definetly wouldn’t give up anything to sign him. He’s a high volume shooter and an average defender. Although he started on the last olympic team, it was he who came out in favor of Wade at the end of their games. Like Denver we would have to surround him with good defensive players and unless Favors becomes one, Melo won’t fit in. Pass.
caarmelo anthony
is a top 5 player in the game. you are wrong, very wrong if you think its possible to land him without giving up one of your two most valuable assets. terrence williams and picks is not gonna do it or whatever you think.
and who would the Knicks give up?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
i highly doubt
the knicks are going to trade for carmelo. i think they are banking on him landing to free agency.
Good
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
its possible
Who are you going to give up?
You know Gallo would be the first to go, and followed by Randolph.
Maybe the Knicks disemboweling themselves to get Anthony wouldn’t be such a bad thing.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
if
carmelo anthony says i will only sign an extenson for the new york knicks denver then can either let him go for nothing or take back whatever they can get bc then no other team would trade for him. i think teams are scared to trade for him as it is since he has made his desire to play in nyc clear.
I would too
…but not if he isn’t signing an extension with us.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Can you name any guys under the age of 27 you’d rather have than Melo? Durant, LeBron, Paul, Deron, and Dwight of course are up there, but after that is there anyone? You wouldn’t sign the (at worst) 6th best young player in the league as a free agent?
yes
You SIGN him as an FA.
Trading for him at this point, with all of this backdoor deals going on with Paul and Anthony going on, would be absolutely stupid.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
dont
forget toney parker may be somewhere involved too, although i am not a huge fan.
Don't count on it
There were similar talks about Ginobili leaving too, but the Spurs extended him in the end. Spurs aren’t like other teams
The Spurs don't plan on rebuilding.
They kept RJ/Manu and brought Splitter over. It would surprise me if they let Parker leave.
That has something to with Greg Popovich though
Collison doesn’t have that luxury.
"Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier, the cigars taste better. The trees are greener."
Melo is a talent
and def. someone who will help you win a lot of games, but I doon’t think he’s a top tier talent. He is clearly behind Wade and James.
that being said
I would sign him. I wouldn’t trade for him this season tho, knowing he’ll be a free agent.
Much like before this summer, any trade should come with his approval and word that he would stay with that team
Denver won’t be able to make a deal with anyone with his ability to be a free agent at the end of a season. So in effect, it’s like a no trade clause. He has to give final approval to wherever they send him, because he can just say that he won’t resign there and scare away the team.
yeah
nobody will give up anything for half a season rental of Melo. The same way Denver could look to trade him so they don’t wind up like Cleveland, the teams interested in him wouldn’t want to end up like that, and having lost assets in the process too, which is even worse.
NI...
…do you see a team betting the farm on a half season rental?
Carmelo is a stud player. I would kill to have him here. But not at the expense of him making the Nets look like absolute fools.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Why can't Denver do a S&T with Carmelo?
That would mean that Melo would have to agree with the trade and the team that picked him up would have to pick up his 3 year extension at $65 million? I see no other way to take a risk on Melo. Just isn’t worth it.
I could easily see Melo allowing to be traded to the Nets, since afterall he would be playing home in Brooklyn before long and his wife would be home too.
However, is Melo worth that much money, before knowing what will be the new CBA?
I predict he will re-sign with Denver by end of January anyway. As long as he doesn’t go to Knicks, I’m Okay.
But they would agree.
We are talking about the scenario where Nets look like a better option for Melo than Knicks.
Proky would have to be willing to pay the 65 million/3 years, but at least there would be a guarantee.
If Nets are on list of teams Melo would consider for a S&T, then Denver would have to seek a trade before deadline.
The smaller Melo’s wish list is, the less the Nets would have to give up (less competition).
Lopez and Favors
That’s it.
But it would have to be an S & T, which is unlikely. I’m seeing the glass half empty on this topic.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't give up on anything for him
neither at the deadline nor in a s&T (I remember folks here saying we should sell the whole farm on Bosh in a s&t… time once again proved that when far enough under the cap, teams don’t give up on anything as valuable as some were suggesting we should give Toronto).
Why is being an average defender someone you have to surround with good defensive players?
Isn’t it that you only have to surround POOR defensive players with good defensive players, not average ones? He’s an average defender, sure, but he’d be arguably the best scorer the Nets have ever seen. He is a guy not many defenders can handle on their own.
It's just my philosophy about the game.
You win titles with
A. A dominate defensive big and a strong defensive team
or
B. A great defensive front line
Therefore, since we don’t have a A he would prevent us from having B. He is an exellent player but he will only get you so far and at a large expense. He would be perfect for Orlando. I wouldn’t spend top dollar for a guy who can’t deliver a title and imo he can’t.
AnyONE might not be enough
Harris, James and a 1st round pick might be needed to land him. I’d never do it.
What do rebuilding teams want again?
Denver is in a perfect position to rebuild this summer. KMart is a free agent. Nene can opt out. Billups has a cheap buyout. JR Smith is a free agent. They don’t want players, they want rebuilding assets. Young players and draft picks. Something we have in abundance.
id give anything but favors and lopez and twill
think about it how many chances u get to sign a top 10 player?
if anything i think everyone can wait till next summer to sign him. we do a sign and trade give our trade exceptions and a couple of picks.
thats all i took 4 lebron n bosh rite?
denver has no option but to take it because its either that or he just walks out 4 nothing
why
in the world. would the nuggest if they are rebuilding want harris. harris’s build shows that he will break down earlier than most pgs. i dont see devin harris as someone they would want.
I'm sure they'd be crawling all over themselves to get Ray Felton
or Toney Douglas or all those wonderful draft picks the Knicks have been hoarding.
or Gallo....
and his bad back
or Wilson “20 sack” Chandler.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, let's go easy on him.
He’s had a pretty brutal summer. It’s now TONY PARKER and CARMELO when just a couple of months ago, the saviors were LeBron, Bosh, Wade and a reincarnated Wilt.
I predict that Knicks won't get any of them, nor will they make playoffs for next 5 years.
San Antonio doesn’t give up players like Tony Parker without getting something valuable in return. Do Knicks have any draft picks left to trade?
Because who knows how long Billups will be there.
Devin is young. I dont see why the Nuggets would not be at least a little interested in him if a trade proposal comes up. I dont want Melo through a trade though. Best way at getting him is through free agency.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 15, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO
The Nets gave up on a lot of their advantage to try to get a star player when they took on Murphy’s contract. Cap space is a way better asset than expiring contracts. For instance, if Denver was looking to trade ’Melo by mid season, the ability we would have had to take on his deal without sending contracts the other way would have been a HUGE asset for Denver, esp bc of the luxury tax, which would make them save tons of money.
Not saying we couldn’t still land a star during the year, but I think it’s obvious the Nets renounced that advantage they’d have had in any negotiation in order to be more competitive this year, and I’m OK with it, we’ve waited too much to use the cap space and I’m glad they decided not to sit and keep waiting for that star to fall in their lap while the team sucks.
your point is well-taken
and I think that is the difference between Thorn and King. Thorn wanted to hold on to the cap space for a super star available at the deadline (or before). King was willing to take a risk for a lesser light who could help them win now. I expect Thorn will try to move a lot of contracts for cap space immediately in Philly.
the thing is...
…..trading for Melo at this point is not a wise move for NJ because he will probably not agree to an extension with us. So I don’t blame King for doing the next best thing by improving the team now, get some wins under our belt, make the Nets look respectable again, and then head into the summer with a fat 20 mil in space and a team full of young talent.
We’ll look a lot better as a team on the rise going into the summer of 2011 instead of a team that just came off of one of the worst campaigns in NBA history.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with King's move. We prove ourselves respectable in 2010 while keeping $20m available
The only thing we lose is a high lottery pick. Its worth it, though. You can’t draft forever, and lottery is a crapshoot.
Yeah that was the best way
We can’t keep bottom feeding forever we have to show our worth as a Franchise at some point.
We don't even lose a high lottery pick
With Murphy, we might have improved from 27 wins to 35 wins. That translates to maybe 5 places lower and fewer pingpong balls. To get a high pick, we’ll have to buy and trade our way up, which I would love to see anyway. It has to be rebuild now or never.
The difference between getting DeMarcus Cousins and getting Gordon Hayward last year
was 4 wins. When it comes to the draft every spot counts. One more win in 2007 and we might not have Brook
The difference between getting DeMarcus Cousins and getting Gordon Hayward last year was 4 wins.
Basically you have traded away a year (with the CBA coming next) for:
1). A small, small chance to squeak into the PFs to make fans feel good.
2). Protection for Favors because he really isn’t ready at all.
3). Falling out of the better chance for an impact draft, getting perhaps “Kyle Singler”.
The only thing that makes SOME sense in protecting Favors, but is this the only way to have done that?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 15, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
“into the Playoffs” not “into the PFs”
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 15, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
negative spin
which is not surprising.
by Net Income on Aug 15, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If we don't make the playoffs, we would have been better of signing a minor free agent to a 1 year deal if we wanted to protect Favors
SOMEONE outside the top 5 will move in to the top 3. The last 4 years someone with the 6th-9th worst record has moved in to take the 1st or 2nd pick. Their records were not exactly terrible as well, ranging from 24-33 wins, exactly what we’re projected to win, at least to some
Sucks if that could have been us and we missed it for nothing but a lower pick
So you’d rather lose 70 games again than have a chance to make the playoffs? Considering next year is our only chance of getting a marquee free agent, I’d rather win as many games as possible while maintaining flexibility. Carmelo won’t go to our team if we’re horrific again. I’m not saying that we should bank it all on Melo or that we should give up our future for the 8th seed.but we’ve lost enough. We have some talent and its time they show they can win some games together. All of our guys have to prove themselves. Winning 20 games and still most likely missing out on Harrison Barnes isn’t going to do us any good. One draft pick isn’t going to save us. If our guys aren’t good enough to even compete for the playoffs this year, we’re going to need to shake things up. Devin, TW, Outlaw, Morrow, Farmar, DJames, Murphy, Favors, Lopez, Petro. That’s plenty of talent. No need to tank another year for a Kyrie Irving.
another losing season hurts us in FA and business wise but another lottery pick would be sweet.
whatever happens, happens
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Difference between John Wall and Favors...
.. was 14 wins. When it comes to the lottery, you don’t know.
Just hope there is not summer of Melo! I hope everyone is so sick of Lebum and his self promotion that we not focus on this garbage. Melo is not coming here. Why would anyone come here? We do not have stars. We play in a 3rd class city. We have a mediocre team. If we find a star, then we’ll talk. But until Lopez or Favors is regarded in the same way that DHoward or Amare or DWade or CPaul, we do not have a chance – except in trade. If we landed Wall, well maybe. I’d rather focus on the here and now: two new rookies that can be good players, watching Lopez develop to the next level (we hope) and seeing how Murphy, Outlaw, Farmar, Morrow, Petro, etc. fit in. And finally, some trades!!!
melo is worth a max
and besides look at Denver contracts and the knicks
ny – only has stat coming back and turiaf has a player option. lol 2 players coming back?? everyone else has team options or no options and just walk out the door.
Denver – Kmart is done, Chauncey has a team option worth over 14mil idk what Denver will do, nene has a player option he would most likely pick it up unless hes RJ. and Jr smith contract is done after this year 2. so all of their top 5 players have contract issues.
but hey this was the case of most teams this offseason so you never know what can happen
Not interested in Melo
If people caught what he said. He said I will do what’s best for my family????
Who is that? His wife who grew up a Knick fan and has been the main one lobbying for Melo to go to the Knicks?
HAHAHAHAHAH
and speaking of which what is up with the wives of players saying their husband would love to play for the Knicks? Eva saying Tony would love to play for the Knicks yesterday. Sup with that.
As many others have said it’s not worth the risk to trade for him when we would be renting him.
As I said sources have said since Amare was traded to the Knicks, Melo and his camp were not interested in that contract. Melo interested in the Knicks..
Let build on this playoff team we have right now
by killa kadafi191 on Aug 15, 2010 10:10 AM EDT reply actions
and speaking of which what is up with the wives of players saying their husband would love to play for the Knicks?
New York is the biggest media market in the country. Of course their attention radio edit wives want them to play for the Knicks.
exactly
LaLa’s career exactly isn’t going through the roof being stuck in Colorado.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I LOVE the team we have now. Nets arent an elite team but im a very content fan. We have at least 6 players on the roster that can carry the team to victory (Harris, Lopez, Murphy, Twill, Morrow, Outlaw)…and a bench with some nice players.
Carmelo is good but I don’t care if he come here or not….or goes to the knicks or not. Im a happy Nets fan right now. Hopefully we make the playoffs, us fans deserve it.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Agreed....
And I’ll be happy to wait for one of the players that we have now to become a star….(Favors…James…TWILL…)
what you missed
was that Melo said it was all about winning (and winning in the future) and if the Nets do better than the Knicks this season, that will have an effect, as will a certain building going up in Brooklyn, where he and LaLa grew up.
As for Tony Parker, he is in negotiations with the Spurs. Unlike Melo, he doesn’t have a $65 million contract sitting on his desk. I think this is the NY media hype again…just like the LeBron stuff.
if we have a substantial turn around this year...
…he may take us seriously. I’m not getting my hopes up.
We have to scrub the stink off of us first. We can worry about Carmelo after we turn some heads with what we have now.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand you bringing up BK
but this is different.
Spike Lee is from BK and said many times he will remain a Knick fan.
LALA a life long Knick fan that is from a family of Knick fans.
I think the decision has already been made once Amare (melo’s best friend) sign with them.
It doesn’t effect us we are a playoff team but what the point of trading all of our assets for a player that can walk and go to the Knicks.
Where will that leave us??
Plus if that did happen imagine how Proky would get killed in the media and papers.
Melo walks away to go their rivals plus the Nets would go from a playoff team back to rebuilding .
We should be patient make the playoffs and let Melo make his decision. If wants to still join his best buddy and go to the city where his wife can further her career go ahead.
We will beat them.
by killa kadafi191 on Aug 15, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Nobody cares about the Knicks.
They’ve won squadoosh and will continue on that path as long as that imbecile Dolan is calling the shots.
They care about money
and where they can make the most of it… on and off the court.
So as long as the Knicks play in NYC and have lots of money to throw at a FA, there will always be somebody there to take it.
Also, having a coach who doesn't demand defense and whose system will inflate their stats
is a bonus.
Exactly
Players will ALWAYS want to go there. Couldn’t say the same for us if we weren’t moving to NY and Proky hadn’t bought the Nets. Can’t say the same for say… Oklahoma City or Memphis.
Players care about NYC. They care about Madison Square Garden. And the Knicks aren’t gonna move any time soon.
I don’t understand your comment. If the players care so much about the Knicks and MSG, the Knicks would have a buyers markets in terms of players and would be able to select the best among FAs at favorable contract terms. That is not even close to being the case.
by ispartan on Aug 15, 2010 2:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, point is, the interest will always be there
They won’t always be the first choice, but players will always be interested in going there. Can’t say the same for other teams
Listening to press you’d think so. But then why didn’t the Wade trio move to MSG? Because the nix have a long history of losing?
Because Miami was the most feasible place
Miami having Bird rights to Wade made things easier. They already had to take paycuts as it is now
Oh wait forget that
But the point remains the same, Miami had the most cap flexibility here since they literally got rid of EVERYONE
Plus no FL income tax
Don’t buy the bull. No pay cut since they saved millions in taxes.
LOL Agreed
Smh i dont know how the Knick fans tolerate D’antoni. I honestly think it is almost impossible to win a championship with that guy
Spurs,Lakers,Boston < recently been THE Elite teams…All great defensively
by nwkiddnj on Aug 15, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I Remember Johnson taking a Mav to to the Finals
out of the West. D’antoni Couldnt do it in the playoffs. Why?… Defense
What else do you remember about that goldenstate team?
yea exactly. Anyteam can get lucky what’s ur point?
Carmelo......
Like LeFaker….hasn’t won anything yet…..
CARMELO
ANTHONY GREW UP IN MARYLAND (BALTIMORE), not brrooklyn. he moved to baltimore when he was 8. LOL @ the misleading/wrong facts.
Carmelo isn't an elite player!!!
I am a huge fan of his but he isn’t an elite player. ESPN insider did a story on this a couple of weeks ago.
The basic thing is he is a high output player that needs tons of shots to get his stats vs contemparies. (player eff). He is low rebounder, get his shot blocked a ton, and isn’t interested in playing defense.
In the end, Anthony’s game demonstrates why it’s important to strip away the biases that color our perceptions of elite players. In Anthony’s case, the excessive shot volume, his team’s stat-padding tempo and the lack of a true 3-point game makes his 28.2 ppg seem far less impressive than his sparkling reputation would suggest
by Rawdawg05 on Aug 15, 2010 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Incomplete doesn't mean you're not elite
http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/08/06/incomplete-doesnt-mean-youre-not-elite/
If you ask me (and I’m assuming you are in an indirect way if you read through nearly 300 words about Step Up before you got to the point of this post), the way Carmelo Anthony scores is what makes him elite. I don’t disagree with Tom’s points about the pace and shooting numbers making his gaudy points per game numbers look better than they actually are. But with the way he performs in the fourth quarter it’s hard for me to ignore just how good he is.
Over the past three seasons, Carmelo Anthony has been one of the better clutch scorers in the NBA. Yes, his shooting numbers have been up and down in terms of the percentage he’s made in these situations but he still puts up more points than just about anybody when it counts (thanks, 82games.com):
- In the 2007-08 season, Carmelo Anthony ranked just 20th (36.3) in the NBA in points per 48 clutch minutes while shooting 42% from the field, 12.5% from three and 81% from the free throw line. But he got to the free throw line in these situations better than all but 14 players in the NBA at 17.6 free throw attempts per 48 clutch minutes.
- In the 2008-09 season, Carmelo Anthony was sort of unstoppable when it counted the most. Only Kobe Bryant and LeBron James scored a higher volume of clutch points with Carmelo finishing third in the league with 54.4 points per 48 clutch minutes. He shot absurd percentages of 56.5% from the field, 58.3% from three and 82% from the free throw line. He also got to the free throw line more than anybody with 24 attempts per 48 clutch minutes.
- This past season, Carmelo fell back down to Earth in terms of clutch shooting percentages. He made just 42.7% from the field, 14.3% from three and improved his free throw shooting to 87%. But he still finished fourth in the league in clutch points per 48 with 47.0 and second in clutch free throw attempts per 48 with 21.7 per.
While the percentages fluctuate quite a bit from year to year and the 08-09 efficiency from three-point range seems to be a complete anomaly, the fact that he scores when his team needs it the most can’t be overlooked just because he’s "not elite" during other parts of the game. Carmelo is an elite crunch time scorer and he’s been the best player on one of the best teams in the league over the past three years. He’s put his Nuggets in the conversation for one of the challengers to the mighty Lakers in each of the past three seasons in an impossibly tough Western Conference.
He's clutch, he's not elite
He had two terrible years sandwiching one where he did fantastically, and that fantastic year he only had 82 minutes in clutch time, half the amount of his following year. Yes, he puts up a lot of points in the clutch, like he does in games. He’s a ball hog, and ball hogs hog even more in crunch time.
by calling all toasters on Aug 15, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s funny to me is that nobody would question Kevin Durant being an elite player in the NBA right now. And when you look at the numbers of what he did compared to what Carmelo Anthony did, there isn’t a HUGE difference in the final output.
Fact still remains that when you need a score during crunch time, he produces. That’s something not all teams have. You can go ahead and say he’s not the best, but you can’t say he’s not among the best or not in the discussion.
Do people make a huge deal about Kobe being a ballhog now? Not so much of a big deal once he had Pau Gasol there. Doesn’t matter that there were still times that Gasol was saying the offense needs to go through him and not Kobe all the time. They were winning, so ballhog or no ballhog, it wasn’t an issue
The illusion that you need a big crunch-time scorer is the same as needing a big-time scorer the rest of the game: who’s going to actually put the ball in the hoop? But, just like the rest of the game, what counts is scoring efficiency, defensive efficiency, and keeping and getting possessions (RB, steals,not turning it over, etc.). Carmelo excels at none of these.
As for being in the mix, there are a few players who have been in the top 10 in crunch time efficiency more than once in the last few years. LBJ has been #1 or #2 all 3 years, but there’s also Ginobili, Nash, Kidd, CP3, Howard, and (wait for it) Caron Butler. That’s the mix.
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/more-on-the-kobe-bryant-clutch-story-at-slate-com/
Melo doesn’t make it in his big year (08-09) due to not having 100 minutes, I guess.
As to Durant being not much better than Melo— I guess, except that shooting efficiency is incredibly important, and Durant beats Melo across the board (FG%, 3pt%, FT%). Which is why Durant’s WP/48 is so much higher. Plus, Durant is only 21, and people tend to factor in coming improvements. And Durant plays more minutes/game and more games. And he’s a better rebounder and defender. Basically, the difference between Durant and Melo is about as big as the difference between Melo and Outlaw.
by calling all toasters on Aug 15, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d take Durant over Melo 10 out of 10 times.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 15, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That should read
“He’s NOT clutch”
by calling all toasters on Aug 15, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
He's right there with the best on offense
The difference is on D. Kobe is a great defender who plays with a great defensive front line. LeBron is a great defender who can be part of a great defensive front line. Melo is an average defender and can’t be a part of a great defensive front line. Imo he would need a dominate defender at center and PF to be part of a title contender and only Howard fills that bill and even he has trouble without a defensive PF.
"stat-padding tempo"
expect that from the Nets. Avery Johnson’s teams in Dallas finished first one year and second another. Their problem in the last year was they dropped back to eighth after Harris got hurt and Kidd replaced him.
Hey, that'll be fun to watch
But it’s win-neutral. The other team scores more then, too. At least we’ll be able to look at a box score and say “Melo got 30 points! How come we didn’t win?” Nuggets fans know this feeling well.
by calling all toasters on Aug 15, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
wasn't in Dallas
and I love the way the Nets have structured the team to resemble the Mavericks…down to the French speaking back up center. (I just hope that Avery has as much success reviving -or just viving-Petro’s career as he did with Diop’s career.)
TWILL...
when he develops his outside shot and more confidence will be as good as if not better than Carmelo….We don’t need Carmelo….We need Chemistry……
TWill can never be as good a scorer as Melo
You can’t tell me Melo is one of the more impressive scorers in the NBA, not just with ability, but with the variety of ways he gets it done.
And that should read, IF he develops his outside shot. There aren’t a ton of guys who came in to the league as a notoriously bad shooter and suddenly over the years became a pretty good one. And TWill coming out of college was notoriously bad on offense. Not only on jump shots but on finishing inside as well.
I had IF....
but I changed “IF” to “WHEN”…….to be optimistic…….TWILL has explosive, almost unstoppable moves to the basket……..And what’s to say that his perimeter shooting won’t get better…..Practice makes perfect………He also has freakish athletic ability……Time will tell………
Melo is Hall Of Fame Talent scoring the ball
Only Durant a lot of people in the NBA feel scores easier. I’m a T-will fan but with Melo he’s a natural scorer, he gets a lot of his scoring on the inside as well being 6’8 and 240 as well as on the post, T-will will never be like Melo but that isn’t a bad Melo is that good scoring the ball. But T-will can become a more complete player than him and still become an allstar at some point, but Melo been doing this since he was like 12.
Williams is nowhere near Anthony’s level of scoring ability. His game is going to be based off of overall production and having the ability to impact the game without necessarily being a huge shot volume player.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 15, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't know what you are calling crazy
But this is what muwu has in mind, from Draftexpress:
The first thing that jumps out when evaluating Williams scoring ability is how few possessions he uses each game. His 14.1 Pos/G ranks last amongst the top ten shooting guard prospects, and as the fourth lowest overall. Even more concerning is his lack of efficiency on those possessions, as his PPP of .87 is the fifth worst on our list. There were some aspects of his situational statistics that did surprise us.
For a player with great strength and athleticism, Terrence Williams was not a very good finisher at the rim. His 1.11 PPP was exactly average, as was his 57% shooting in limited transition touches. That really hurts his cause since he has major shortcomings as a shooter. He scored only 1.12 PPP on his open catch and shoot looks, which isn’t awful, but his .58 PPP on pull up jumpers ranks last amongst shooting guards and second to last amongst all guards (Brandon Jennings is last). It doesn’t help that he gets fouled on a meager 9% of his attempts from the field, which limits his efficiency even more.
In one-on-one situations, Williams wasn’t very effective either, putting up just .61 PPP, ranking him well below the average of .78 PPP. Some of this has to do with his complete inability to score when he puts the ball on the floor going left (15.4% FG on isolations). There is some good news for Williams though, as he is capable of running the pick and roll with some efficiency (.81 PPP). That stems largely from his playmaking ability, which seems even more important to his stock now that we see just how hard a time Williams has scoring in most situations.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Terrence-Williams-507/#ixzz0whgGFj2n
http://www.draftexpress.com
If you are calling “crazy” that TW can never be as good a scorer as Melo, when, crazy begets crazy I guess.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Aug 15, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
and leadership if everything goes right and two of these guys become borderline stars T-Will, Morrow, James or Outlaw no need for Carmelo the Nets biggest need would be again a PF this offseason Murphy is 31 years old I would rather get Al Horford and have the best combination of bigs in the league Lopez, Favors and Horford.
can we please wait
to see if any of these kids can reach Murphy’s level of success in the NBA before we denigrate his . He may not be an elite player, but he has done well while on some very bad teams.
Murphy is no mystery.
I agree with JJ25. I would not denigrate Murphy’s level of success, just measure by it. I say the ceiling for Murphy is the playoffs. The ceiling for a guy like Horford is second round. If Favors pans out he could put us over the top. I’m not counting on TWill, Morrow or James to lead us anywhere even thou they could be great players in their own way. They’re relatively small so they are limited on D but could be good on D at their position.
It might be a rough rinse cycle
We only had three survivors from last season (Hump could have walked with a thank you from management). I expect a better hit rate this season, but to state the obvious not everyone who starts 2010 as a NET will make Avery’s cut.
The wash will include a heavy does of “make the playoffs Russian detergent” and a focused Avery rinse cycle.
it'll all come out in the laundry?
for that heavy dose of Russian detergent I suggest…
…and for that Avery warm and fuzzy rinse…
USA Playing France Now on ESPN2 1-3 PM
USA cut Green and McGee, leaving roster with 5 point guards and only 1 true center.
Doesn’t make any sense. Surely Brook would have been cut, so it is good he stepped down first.
Only 1 player left to cut.
I'm watching China Vs Puerto Rico and YI
Looks horrible, ball slipping out of his hands, shooting air ball jump hooks, getting pushed around, smh we haven’t had a PF like Murphy in a long time going to be fun to watch.
Yeah I wouldn't mind sending him and invite
Was just going to say that he seems like a tough dude as well.
Cap space numbers in introduction, don't add up.
43.1 + 10.6 = $53.7 million, not $54.9 million.
I imagine the diff is Hayes’ cap hold, that would not be in the salary number.
by ispartan on Aug 15, 2010 1:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well we now know that there isn't room for Hayes, now that DJames and Outlaw can stick to SF.
I don’t remember Hayes being used as a SG as was written somewhere.
let me be upfront
i have what I thought were good numbers, but I am told by a very good source that they are not correct…and try as I might, I can’t reconcile them. So I have given up.
Difference is pretty close to the cap value...
… of the 3 non-guaranteed deals (Zoubek, Ozoh, May) should they make the roster.
Sounds familiar
“Nets’ minority owner Jay-Z has close ties with Anthony and is committed to signing him”.
Yeah I agree but
We never knew D-Wade,Bosh, and Lebron was playing the whole world, and committed to doing this years ago.
Jay Z wants him.
I think he realizes he struck out on LBJ, Bosh, Wade, etc. and he wants to repay the fans. I think he was actually a bit upset with the way things turned out. He wants Melo badly, I can tell you that.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 15, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
"He wants Melo badly, I can tell you that."
Oh I didn’t know you knew Jay-Z personally (rolls eyes).
Calm down, buddy.
I mean that there is no way you could think that Jay was perfectly fine with letting those stars (his friends) just walk. Im sure he wasnt fuming or losing sleep because of it, but there is no way he felt perfectly happy.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 15, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
His rep was not damaged.
I just think he is a bit upset by this Summer’s events.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 15, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
there is no evidence
their friendship was harmed by this summer…just a gossip item on creepy media takeout.
I dont think his friendhips were harmed either.
All Im saying is he must have been upset. Even if it just was a little bit.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 15, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
where go melo?
i think melo go to knicks, but maybe a i feel wrong, it’s my dream seeing melo… nets jersey, go nets!!!
I think Melo would be RJ nuts..
To leave all that money on the table..
I’m all for signing him next summer, unrestricted, but I’m not crazy about giving up a bunch of talented young guys for somebody who has yet to show he can put a team on his back and carry them in the playoffs..
I just want everybody to kind in mind
that even if we can’t get Melo, Iguodala might be on the market soon
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
sorry here's the link
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=37zb2hw
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
twill plays just like iggy y trade 1 player 4 someone that plays the same?
we would lose harris and twill both that have cheaper contracts. and i think twill can b better than iggy. besides if we cant get melo then we can go after butler
but he isn't Iggy
Iggy has a record of success and is a member of Team USA. TWill was rookie of the month for really bad team.
No need for Iggy we have T-will and D-James
He’s not impressive enough, can’t shoot or carry a team, will never be an allstar.
I agree he's not an all-star
but I am making a larger point that Iguodala will probably be there for the taking (please don’t get lost in the weeds of my trade proposal) and in any case, Iguodala is better than TWill, so let’s just nip that talk in the bud. If anything, Harris would be the hang-up of my proposal, not TWill.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
it makes no sense to take on the overpaid contract of a guy whose skill set is very similar to that of one of our most promising kids. I’d take TWill’s upside, cheaper contract and youth over Iguodala any day of the week. A trade like the one you proposed would make no sense on so many levels. Of course Iguodala is a better player right now (you’re comparing a rookie to a six year pro, jeez… and I could even argue there isn’t that big of a difference between the TWill we saw for the last 2 months of the season and Iggy), but anyways we’ll see who is the better player in a couple of years.
this is the comparison you should make
As a rookie, Iguodala averaged 9.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg and 3.0 apg in 32.8 mpg.
TWill averaged 8.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg and 2.9 apg in 22.6 mpg.
ouch
don’t hit them with too many facts Andres.
Some people just want to trade Williams for the sake of trading him. It’s clearly obvious.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
not worth IMO Tom
that trade will leave us with a bad contract on the books and it will have us stuck in the middle of the pack
Lets be easy. No need to trade Williams or Harris unless it’s for someone that is going to get us to where we need to. Iggy isn’t that kind of guy, and I like him as a player.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
While I think It's Way too Early
To guess what our needs will be, but it’s still fun to speculate.
This season…right now, SF still seems to be the biggest need, though we don’t know what we have yet in Outlaw and D.James. SG seems to be the second biggest question mark. Next season Murphy and Humprhies will be gone, so PF will be a need, whether it be starting quality (Favors is not read) or back-up (Favors is ready)
The names I like right now…
SF
Thad Young – should be available with Iggy and Turner there.
Jeff Green – could be available given OKC’s depth and young players needing to get extended
C.Butler – older, but every team could use some vets esp. for the right price.
Josh Howard – very curious to see how he performs on an off the court in Washington. If all looks good, could be a worth the gamble.
Al Thorton – uber-talented but has several red flags on defense, upside and character.
Corey Brewer – love his defense, youth, length (6’9")and ability to play SG or SF.
Wilson Chandler – Don’t laugh, steady talented player who can play SG, SF, PF and defense. Nice to steal some Knick fans/players as well.
Tay Prince + Battier – Depending how good we are and if we make any other moves, the could be the players that make us respectable and appeal to other players. Both are older, but have a lot left. We need more defensive and team oriented players.
PF
Horford – long shot, but I have a feeling they will have to chose between him or J.Smith (who I would love). Can play PF or C.
AK – also a SF, and we know the appeal he holds to the owner and vice versa.
David West – NJ native could opt out and be a FA, but a bit older than the core and could stunt Favors as he can only play the PF, unlike the previous 2.
Carl Landry – nice player, but limited because of size.
Glen Davis – a less talented/productive and probably expensive Landry
Troy Murphy – we get a sneak peak, and he may be willing to stay at a reduced rate in comfortable
Otherwise…
T.Parker – If Harris is traded, and Parker doesn’t have ridiculous contract demands, this guy is a top 5 PG when healthy.
Melo – I won’t hold my breath, nor do I care for Melo and his persona.
Overall though, I think we need to start collecting and then consolidating our assets for potential trades, which I think will be our best chance of landing a star:
In my opinion,
I don’t think the guys listed at SF are THAT much better than Outlaw. I’d accept some if it were just a straight up trade like Outlaw for whoever, but I don’t imagine teams doing that. I’d much rather give up assets towards Melo.. that is, only in a sign-and-trade.
For the names you listed at PF, I’d try to go after AK or Landry.
here's what we know
Avery Johnson has a very good record developing young players.
Josh Howard, drafted at the end of the 2003 Draft, became an All-Star
Marquis Daniels, undrafted in 2003, became a starter.
DeSagana Diop, dumped by the Cavs, was rehabbed into a very good defensive center.
Brandon Bass, dumped by the Hornets, became a solid backup at PF
Jose Barea, undrafted in 2005, because a solid PG backup.
Devin Harris.
Johnson thinks Outlaw reminds him of Howard. Makes sense.
So if Avery can do that with young mostly untalented players
Imagine what he could do with truly talented players!
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 15, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, but you mean "unskilled" imo
if AJ develops a player’s skills, they really already had an (underutilized) talent.
Impressive how other top level NBA organizations couldnt find a way to keep them but AJ could.
He applies a disciplined system
His system is designed to put players in the right positions to take advantage of their skills. What the player has to do is identify and execute. Identifying what a player can do well and putting him in position to be successful is the key. He is unlikely to ask people to do what they can not – just do what they do, do it well and do it every time.
Kind of what he did for himself as a player.
It is called building a team and in todays what have you done for me lately fantasy statistics driven professional sports it is becoming a rarity. That noted the team builders are the big winners.
by Jay-dub on Aug 16, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jay Dub
I have rec’d your post, because you speak the truth.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
and it's also why
Avery is perfect for this team.
Who knows what he’ll do with Brook Lopez for god’s sake. We could be stunned by the end of this season.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I am confident
that at the very least, by seasons end, we will know what we have in terms of players.
Avery will help us find out how good Harris, Lopez and Outlaw really are. Avery will help us discover how good TWILL, DJames, Morrow, Favors, Petro and Farmer could be.
So if
Outlaw becomes Howard and T-Will become Andre Ingoudola I ask this question agian whats the point of Carmelo when after the season thier biggest need will be a PF?
You said Murphy is good to re-sign last time I checked Proky wants a dynasty and wants to win titles is Murphy going to be part of a competitive 3 man rotation at the C AND PF in years to come he is 31 when Favors is fully developes he is going to be 34 after this offseason coming up they can’t offer big money contracts anymore so they have to play it smart what if Favors never developes all they have after Murphy leaves is Lopez and no cap space because they have used it all Brook and T-Will big money contracts. I say get Al horford if Avery can get T.O. AND T.W. to play like All stars thats a dynasty and thats a great team for years to come.
“Outlaw becomes Howard and T-Will become Andre Ingoudola I ask this question agian whats the point of Carmelo when after the season thier biggest need will be a PF?”
Are you being serious?
I’d say the odds of that happening are slim.
Both happening – 5%
Either happening 25%
Then again, was/is Howard really that good? Not 1st option AS wing good.
I don’t think he was a truly an all=star, it was the team record and one good season that snuck him in.
But either way I don’t think Melo is coming, and for the record he’s much better than Iggy and Howard. He’s almost worth the both of them since you have to pay for quality.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 15, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
why in god's name
are we comparing Williams and Outlaw to anyone? Let them play and fall back
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't like IGGY
Doesn’t move me, he’s not getting any better, just seems like he is what he is no point when we have D-james and T-will who in my eyes have higher upsides since we know Iggy isn’t an allstar.
I like Iggy
Don’t care for this contract, but Iggy for TWILL and spare parts and draft picks works for me. Avery will know how to use Iggy and ultimately we need a big time scorer who demands doubles. I see offense on our team but with the possible exception of Lopez down low we do not have a guy that demands extra attention.
Assuming Melo signs the extension in Denver – I say make a run at Rod while he starts his Philly salary dump.
Iguodala is not "big time" scorer
He’s just an OK/ good scorer. Not a knock on him, his game has other stregnths that make him a very nice and complete player. But he isn’t the guy you’re describing:
ultimately we need a big time scorer who demands doubles
I like Iggy too
but I’m not sure that trade is what we need.
Iggy is a good player, a beast IMO, but he’s not the game changer that we need to put us over the hump.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree he is not elite
My hope is that either Lopez of Favors emerges as our “stud”. I think Devin is the right PG for Avery. I think we have some nice pieces (time will tell) in Morrow, TWILL and Outlaw. But I do not see TWILL as a future big time scoring threat. I see him as the matchup monster who makes it easier for other players to do their thing. This means we need a reliable get your own shot scorer (Andres is right Iggy is no Melo) who can demand game planning from the other team. Not a lot of these guys around who have sold all around games, provide lots of energy and could be available.
Agree Iggy is overpaid – but I am fairly certain that we will need to make the plunge and overpay someone at some point to get to contender level – most likely by taking a poor contract in a trade or offering a max deal to someone we do not really feel is a max player.
Williams does not need to be a high volume shooter
That’s not his game and it won’t be under Avery Johnson, imo.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I think/hope.....
TWILL will have some games at 20-8-8, some games at 5-12-10, some games at 12-5-5.
And it will be good. He will play different roles in different games at different positions consistent with matching him up where he can have the biggest impact on the day.
This Iguodala talk is crazy. He’s overpaid and TWill has a similar skill set, he will be as good as him, and in a couple of years TWill will be better than him already.
exactly
we need to find out what we have first.
Unless Carmelo Anthony is up for grabs and he’d agree to signing an extension with us if he was dealt here, I don’t make any rash trades
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say that Iggy is a role player
but I do agree. Too many years for a guy that is very good, but at his ceiling and won’t help the Nets get to contender status.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope you are right
But I don’t have much faith in Outlaw right now.
Though I haven’t seen him much, his stats have been unimpressive and I’ve hear very mixed reviews from Portland fans such as.. better as a stretch PF, questionable shot selection, frustrating player, low b-ball IQ yet clutch and makes shots you think he wouldn’t. He doesn’t seem to add much in the way of rebounds, assists, steals, etc. Maybe he just did not have the chance in Portland to go beyond his role, but I need to see something 1st before before I change my tune. I do like his age, length and shooting ability though.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 15, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
his signing
is the one I am most excited about.
I think the change in pace, from among the slowest to among the fastest, is going to benefit Outlaw.
i've wanted outlaw on this team ever since rj departed
after he was traded to the clips and clips selected aminu I knew he wouldnt be resigned. Happy we have him…
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
I do not get all the Outlaw negativity
I think is a solid signing. Right skill set. Reasonable dollars. And he is young enough that the years are also OK for me. Absolutely worth the risk.
yeah
There’s way too much negativity towards every player signed this summer imo except for Morrow, and it’s unwarranted. All of these guys will contribute. Some more than others, but I don’t think that we’ve overpaid for any of them nor was it a mistake to sign them(even though I don’t like the two extra years on Outlaw’s deal).
If you want Brook Lopez and Devin Harris to be able to function on the court, you’ll be glad we have a guy like Outlaw out there to bang them out from deep.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
when
did anyone else even offer outlaw 3 years? the nets outbid themselves out of desperation.
Gallo...
….The Nets outbid themselves out of desperation?
No. We paid the guy what we thought he was worth. Some of us fans disagree with the amount of years, but that move was not made out of desperation
The Knicks on the other hand, bid against themselves for Amare Stoudemire, so I find it absolutely comical that you’d even talk about US bidding against ourselves out of desperation.
100 million uninsured, when no one else was even touching that, is the epitome of doing something out of desperation.
But keep trying. One day, something will stick.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
find
me one link where it says anyone offered outlaw even three years. please find me the link and then you can have a point, but until then 5 years for outlaw is absurd.
amare is a 5 time all star, all nba, rookie of the year, etc. he got paid like he deserved to. not only will amare bring toughness, leadership, and confidence to this team, which will help our young core develop but he is best friends with melo, who will be a knick mark it down.
absurd...that's laughable dude.
I don’t have any evidence of anyone offering Outlaw a deal, but the point is, his deal isn’t going to cripple our franchise, he’s young, can stretch the floor, and fits in perfectly with our young core. You are overblowing it just to try to throw some salt on the Nets. That’s your only purpose of trolling posting here, but that’s besides the point.
The Stoudemire deal, especially if the worst case scenario occurs, will kill the Knicks cap wise. You cannot refute this point.
And instead of addressing the point that the Knicks bid against themselves for Stoudemire at the stupid price, you start to write a bunch of puff piece material about him.
You are in denial.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
how
does rudy gay, joe johnson, david lee, chris bosh, carlos boozer all get max or near max deal yet
the best player out of all of them doesnt, of course he does.
exactly you cant find a link bc there is none. outlaw was too many years. agreed.
Chris Bosh is better overall than Amare Stoudemire, and I fail to understand what this has to do with what we’re talking about.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
amare
is better than bosh and
how doesnt it relate
Bosh is a better rebounder and defender than Stoudemire, Stoudemire is more explosive around the basket.
See, basketball is played on both ends of the floor and on the glass, but that stuff doesn’t matter anymore in knicks land.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I read this on another Nets forum (real GM):
Outlaw’s career stats when he averages over 30 mpg (75 games total):
16.7 ppg
5.4 rpg
1.6 apg
1.0 spg
1.0 bpg
47.3% FG%
42.9% 3PT%
81.7% FT%
Travis is a good signing, folks.
look at the 42% from deep.
I cannot wait until we become worthy enough for national television games on ABC or ESPN.
“Outlaw for three….BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANG!!!!!”
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
cool stuff
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 16, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that Kanye is working on his next release
God help us all if Kobe rapped on any songs.
NBA players do not need to make music. Period.
Except for Ron Artest. Nothing beats a plug for one’s own album right after you hit the game winning shot in the 7th game of the NBA Finals. That was ungodly
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Off topic but...
….LOL @ Udonis Haslem getting popped for weed. The party is starting way too early down there in Miami.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
I just came back from Miami
and as a Young man who loves woman! Why do u need weed when all of those woman are more addictive than any drug ahhhh I wanna go back!
this conversation can go in several different directions
weighing the pros and cons of pot vs. hot miami women probably would violate the rules of discussion on here, but hilarious none the less
and i was in Miami 2 years ago dude. Did not want to leave.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Aug 16, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
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