Nets Interested in Paul But Won't Give Up "Scary Good" Favors
by Net Income on Jul 28, 2010 7:01 AM EDT
290 comments
The Nets haven't had any talks with the Hornets about Chris Paul since before Billy King replaced Rod Thorn and although King says his team will do "due diligence" on Paul don't expect anything soon and don't expect Derrick Favors to be part of any package.
Fred Kerber quotes one Nets staffer as saying Favors "has a chance to be scary good." The Nets anticipate Favors would be the starting price for Paul, along with Devin Harris. And the Hornets would want any team to take Emeka Okafor, too. As a result, Kerber writes, the Nets chances of trading for Paul are slim. Instead, they will look at acquiring a power forward, maybe during the season.
- Chris to Nets a Paul order - Fred Kerber - New York Post
- Reports of Paul courtship draws memo - Marc Stein - ESPN
- Paul refrains from denying trade interest - ESPN
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No way!
I’d rather give up Harris, TWill, Hump and 2 number 1’s for Paul and Okafor. Favor’s potential is so intriguing that the only time I’d consider trading him is for Melo or Wall.
by Pinoy Nets on Jul 28, 2010 6:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I would not trade Favors! This is where having Rod work his magic, would have been ideal. Rod was a master at giving away the right pieces away for talent. I am still a big fan of keeping Terrence as well, but, if it means getting Paul it might be worth it. I still think Terrence will be a stud of a player, but, atleast we get a super star back.
LETS GO NETS!
I doubt the Hornets even trade Paul at all this year
Paul has no leverage, he’s got two years left, he’s got nothing to scare the Hornets with in the short term
agreed
The Hornets are in a strong position to not trade Paul now especially following the memo from Stern – which i actually predicted happening. It will be interesting to see just how healthy Paul’s knee is during the upcoming season.
by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 28, 2010 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions
"Paul has no leverage, he’s got two years left"
see muwu’s fan post about pseudo-expiring contracts, cp3 might have a little more lev than u think
It all depends on how Paul continues to act about being there. It could force them to go in another direction, especially, if they are able to rid themselves of Okafor’s bloated contract as well.
LETS GO NETS!
They're not trading him unless this next season ends and he still wants out
He can still change his mind, and they’ll cling on to that for as long as they can
The only thing if he acts up
He lowers his value adn his image. He’ll probably be on his best behavior and bolt in free agency.
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Jul 28, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
LMBO
Well that heated debate the other night was just a giant waste of time (face palm).
Again I like Paul but the sticking points for me are only two years left on contract when you wold have to give so much up and taking back Okafor (with Brook on the roster) would be extremely short sighted . Okafor and Brook on the court at the same time would be uncomfortable to watch and highly ineffective. Not to mention once you got Okafor you would be stuck with him. If N.O. could move him on his own he wouldn’t be married to Paul’s trade talks. Also they just love Favors so why give him up if going in you feel its a mistake?
Since the face been revealed the game got real
lol well most of our heated debates here are pretty much rendered useless in a few days
Much like the Wall or Turner debate haha
No Thanks.....
Paul is damaged goods and I don’t want a guy who tells his team that he wants to be traded….And Okafur SUCKS worse than his contract………FAVORS will be a young Kareem Abdul Jabbar….And he is probably still growing….
NO THANKS!
Damion James, Brook Lopez and Favors should stay as a Nets.
"We're going to be wearing a bullseye. But that's what you play for," Wade said. "We enjoy the bullseye. Plus, there's going to be times when we lose 2-3 games in a row, and it seems like the world has crashed down. You all are going to make it seem like the World Trade is coming down again, but it's not going to be nothing but a couple basketball games."
by jasperjarrod on Jul 28, 2010 7:27 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agree...but I add Williams to that list.
As has been mentioned by me and some others, the MOST I’d offer is Harris, Lee, Hump, and a 1 of the first rounders the Nets have (where they have 2 firsts I guess). And no way Okafor comes this way either if it was me.
So under my terms this would not get it done for New Orleans, so you know where I’m at.
I’m OK with this not happening and moving on.
The Nets wouldn't win the
Title in the next 2 or 3 years with or without CP3, so I say let the youth prevail. If Favors can be as good as they think, let him develop into that with the talent that’s already here. Then you have the star that other players want to play with. Brook, Favors and DJames can be a scary good frontline in a couple of years. If TWill can come under control and learn to shoot better, that’s a nice nucleus. Just be patient!
by djsupreme on Jul 28, 2010 7:36 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Time to stop the rubber necking
And keep our eyes on the road ahead. We have a plan, now lets follow it through.
Well the Celtics were a team with some good young pieces too in Rondo, Al Jeff, Perkins but they found an opportunity and decided to forget the building through the draft thing
Did it guarantee them a 3-4 year window only of a championship and salary cap hell all throughout? Yes. Was it worth it for only that single championship? Yes, 100%.
This is not to say we will be like the Celtics if we do the Paul trade. This is to say that you don’t stick stubbornly to the plan no matter what. You do what’s best for the team, and that means keeping an open mind about every possibility that can come up
Could Rondo and Al Jeff been a pretty good team in 3 years? Yes. But was all the winning even though it won’t last a long time worth it? Yes.
A little different imo they had PP already, we would just be getting Paul where are the other two?
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Well we have Brook
But my point was, just because you have a plan, doesn’t mean you should stick to it no matter what.
Isn't this different?
What were the negatives for Boston in acquiring Allen and Garnett other than salary? Did they give #3 draftee who could be great or did they have to take on a player they don’t want with a bloated contract? Just asking.
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 28, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
They did give up the number 5 pick and give away Al Jefferson, a potential cornerstone
They basically mortgaged their entire future on it working out, had they not won that championship, it would have been a complete failure and they would have given away their future for salary cap hell
To me the difference is KG was a big man
and they already had PP. they swapped big for big.
I still say big men are the ones that win the titles. I asked before when’s the last time a dominant PG won the title? It’s been over 20 years. It’s a big mans league. Kobe needed Shaq and Gasol. Tim Duncan, Hakeem Olajuwon.
If I have Brook Lopez and Derrick Favors on my team, I’m going to let that develop.
Steve Nash, JKidd and Deron Williams don’t have a ring between them. Give me dominant bigs instead of guards.
You make valid points, who was the last team to win that didn’t have dominate bigs?
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Chauncey Billups won a title being arguable "the man" of the Pistons
And Lopez would not be part of any Paul deal, so you’ll still have him.
And you forget that Barkley, Malone, and Ewing don’t have any rings between them either.
It's shame Stockton & Malone didn't win it all.
They were a once-a-generation duo. It would be cool if Favors was the next Karl Malone.
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 28, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't be any more excited that the Rubio campaign is taking off
I refuse to chastise the non-believers.
I didn't say ALL big men win
what I said was you need a dominant big man. If anything, the Pistons were more of a team. And Rasheed, and Wallace (defense) could dominate. All you had to do was watch Gasol and Bynum. And every team has to try to match up with them.
Dominant pg’s don’t appear to be the most important ingredient.
If I'm designing a team to beat, Lebron, Bosh and Wade
I’m buidling a dominant frontline. That’s going to be their weakness.
Gonna be hard to design to beat that
unless you change the rules to allow you to have 7 players at a time on the floor. That’s two double team worthy guys on that team. Unless you have two defensive player of the year caliber players like the Lakers, it’s gonna be near impossible to guard
Ahh.. High level is different than the main guy
Of course you need an entire team. But Tim Duncan, Shaq and Hakeem were the focal players on the team. Even Kobe couldn’t get it done without Shaq or Gasol. I notice you hedge by saying perimiter player. But again I said PG. Kobe, Jordan, Pierce were all instrumental in winning the titles. But Rondo, Fisher and Tony Parker were role players.
Lopez is NOT a Championship level “main guy” which requires a HoF player. And it is a pipedream to think that Favors is a HoF player, pure ideal projection. All we’ve seen at HoF type level are dunks. And you don’t get to the HoF by dunking.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Agree.
The Nets still lack an alpha dog (Simmons) and I don’t think Favors will develop into one. Maybe they’ll get lucky next year and run into Barnes.
Actually “alpha dog” is an interesting measure to consistently use for Favors. What intrigues people are those flashes of athleticism and power (alpha dog like impressions). But what really will determine greatness in him is if he has real alpha dog mentality. You can have it in a quiet way, like Duncan. But from what I have seen from him on the court, he is not alpha dog much. More like Gamma Dog.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
You already know...
That you haven’t seen enough of this kid to make an opinion like that.
Granted, he is as low key as it gets and seems timid but the reality is you, myself, nor anyone on this board has seen enough or knows enough about this kid to make an opinion like that.
You always put yourself out is the “level headed, older and wiser poster” but this type of an opinion doesn’t live up to that.
You're joking right
this is just debating for the sake of debating if you think Parker was the dominant player on that team. Not for one series but for the team.
The question was what dominant PG has won a title. You still haven’t named one. The Isaiah Thomas Pistons were the last one.
He was not “the” dominate player. To say that he was dominant is to say that he was dominating from that position.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
KV
you’re jumping in on the back end of the conversation.
The question is reagrding Chris Paul and a dominating point guard. Tony Parker isn’t a dominating pg in anybody’s book, I don’t care how good that one series was. Tim Duncan is the HOF dominant player on that team..case closed.
I have a feeling you were not watching Tony Parker when he was dominating from the PG position.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
As a matter of fact
The Spurs were trying to get JKidd from the Nets so they would HAVE a dominating PG.
Ken Berger quoting Tim Duncan:
"I think absolutely," said Duncan, a two-time MVP. "Of course I’m biased, obviously. But with the position that we’re in — second or seventh in the West, however many games it can switch — we’re right in the mix with that. The amount of injuries we’ve been dealing with all year … he’s keeping this team consistent. He’s been the consistent one all year long. Absolutely, he should be at least given an opportunity to be one of those top five."
Not saying he isn't
But Tony Parker made just as many contributions to championships. Can’t say Duncan would have still won without him
And you have yet to say how dominant big men can win it themselves if they're so much more valuable
Because Pau wasn’t looking very champion-like when he was constantly being swept
Who said by themselves?
i said the dominant player on the team.. And I said, Shaq, Duncan and Olajuwon.
You named Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups..
I think I proved my point
Who on the Nets is a Shaq, Duncan and Olajuwon.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
49
and have watch plenty of basketball.
again, the question wasn’t when is the last time a pg dominated a championship series?
the question is, who’s the last dominant pg to win a championship?
HoFer Isiah Thomas.
Question: Who is the HoF big man the Nets have?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
If you are 49 you clearly were not watching Tony Parker and the Spurs that year.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
And WHO is the HoF player on the Nets? Who?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
HOF on the Nets isn't the point.
Point is that you start winning teams with big men and not pg’s. i haven’t seen the top pg’s in the league win titles and I HAVE seen the big men. Where’s the debate? it’s the truth.. You’re just debating for the sake of it.
Point being that you can't win with big men alone much in the same way that you can't win with perimeter guys alone
Pau wasn’t the main guy on these Lakers. KG wasn’t the main guy on the Celtics.
Well that is not true at all. It is not just good Big Men that win titles, its HoF big men. And the Nets have none. Are you planning a trade for a HoF big man? If so, I’m listening.
And Isiah Thomas, HoF PG, drove that Pistons team.
You are comparing a HoF type PG (Paul) to middle of the road good big men who never bring titles.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
KV
I love the way you know for a fact how good Brook and Favours are going to be. Brook has been in the league for 5 mins and last year played without a coach on a terrible team. Favours hasnt played a game yet and he isn’t a HoF player?? Maybe he is, or maybe he is terrible… Who knows? At least let him play a game before we judge him.
You don’t assume some guy who was swallowed up by the college game is going to be a HoF player. Of course if you are a fan you can assume each and every one of your players is going to be a HoFer, which is basically what multiple NetsDaily posters do.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 30, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t making the assumption that he wont be just as bad?? Sure it is more of an educated guess, but the fact is no one has a clue. Don’t get me wrong, I get frustrated by people here saying he is going to be Dwight, but I just want to give him a chance. I hope he is Dwight by they way. I hope in three years we are laughing about the fact that we stole him with the number three pick!
rec'd
you need a stud big and or a stud swing man.
You just need an effective PG that will defend his position, move the ball around and hit shots. Paul is not carrying any team to a title w/o bigs, which is why the talk about “lets trade everyone away for him” is flat out stupid.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
AND
If you want to draw star big men here, having a PG who distributes the ball and turns people like Tyson Chandler into huge forces, is the number one way.
Everyone wants to play with a HoF PG.
If you admit the Nets don’t have the horses, having a HoF type PG is the fastest way of getting those.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't change the fact that none of those big men you speak of have won titles without perimeter guys as well
Gasol never even won a playoff game without Kobe with him being Memphis’ dominant player. Garnett never won a title with him being Minnesota’s dominant player.
Do you consider Lopez a dominant defensive Big Man? Has Favors shown himself to be a dominant defensive player in any way yet?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
He played 5 summer league games smh
The coaching staff knows more than us, they see him every day, we don’t give him time.
The question of PGs is misleading in recent years because the Lakers do not use a PG really in the Triangle, and neither did the Bulls. And almost no team runs the Triangle any more. Throughout the history of the league dominant PGs have been a must. In fact the Celts almost pulled off an improbable just this year with a PG and a SF.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Disagree.
See:
Vernon Maxwell & Kenny Smith
Avery Johnson
Tony Parker
Chauncey Billups
Jason Williams & Gary Payton (old Payton)
Rajon Rondo (2008 version)
This excludes all the Jackson-coached teams over the last 16 years.
Thanks for the info.
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 28, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
And can we still not get a definitive answer whether the entire meniscus was removed or just the torn portion?
There is a world of difference between removing only the torn part and removing the entire thing. If they only removed part of it, as is normal procedure in arthroscopic knee surgery (the same surgery Kobe’s getting) then he’ll be absolutely fine
I got this from New OrleansNet LLC
http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ssf/2010/03/new_orleans_hornets_chris_paul_8.html
Paul remains sidelined as a result of Feb. 4 arthroscopic surgery to remove the torn portion of the meniscus cartilage in his left knee, a convalescence originally termed to last four to six weeks.
Note: remove the torn portion
Not the entire meniscus, the torn portion.
So question now is, if you know that his injury is not as major as we make it seem, (and no one else seems to be making a big deal out of it either) are you still against acquiring a point guard who puts up 20 ppg 11 apg 5 rpg 3 spg while shooting 50% FG, 40% 3PT, and 85% FT?
I'm not
but giving up Favors and taking Okafor’s contract is not worth it IMO. I will give them James but not Favors.
"We're going to be wearing a bullseye. But that's what you play for," Wade said. "We enjoy the bullseye. Plus, there's going to be times when we lose 2-3 games in a row, and it seems like the world has crashed down. You all are going to make it seem like the World Trade is coming down again, but it's not going to be nothing but a couple basketball games."
by jasperjarrod on Jul 28, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
scratch that
I won’t give them Damion Either :)
"We're going to be wearing a bullseye. But that's what you play for," Wade said. "We enjoy the bullseye. Plus, there's going to be times when we lose 2-3 games in a row, and it seems like the world has crashed down. You all are going to make it seem like the World Trade is coming down again, but it's not going to be nothing but a couple basketball games."
by jasperjarrod on Jul 28, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
If we could do that then I'm all for it.
As long as we don’t have to give them Favors/James/Lopez.
"We're going to be wearing a bullseye. But that's what you play for," Wade said. "We enjoy the bullseye. Plus, there's going to be times when we lose 2-3 games in a row, and it seems like the world has crashed down. You all are going to make it seem like the World Trade is coming down again, but it's not going to be nothing but a couple basketball games."
by jasperjarrod on Jul 28, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
He will be traded, Period
the question is where…. When a guy goes public the dye is cast.
by Eddie Bright Jr on Jul 28, 2010 7:49 AM EDT reply actions
Knicks cause they have Amare. Orlando cause they have Howard. Blazers cause they have Roy. Nets… well, forget it, we only have potential. And if we trade Favors, less potential. The Nets will not be in this. This is a high stakes game and the Knicks are desperate. Orlando needs one piece. Blazers need one piece. We need three pieces.
that's why we need to be patient and...
….say it with me kids….“STAY THE COURSE”
You don’t build anything by being rash and impulsive.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
We are not winning the title anyway. Build from within!
by power_njerz on Jul 28, 2010 8:03 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
rec's!
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You have a definitive source for that?
http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ssf/2010/03/new_orleans_hornets_chris_paul_8.html
Paul remains sidelined as a result of Feb. 4 arthroscopic surgery to remove the torn portion of the meniscus cartilage in his left knee, a convalescence originally termed to last four to six weeks.
Huge gigantic difference between the torn portion and the entire thing. Is anyone else making a big deal about this? Anyone else scared of it? We’ve blown this injury out of proportion
I don't think we have....
They guy has bad knees…never good for an NBA PG
I’m not saying its career threatning, but would you want to lose CP3 for a season for reconstructive knee surger? What about microfracture surgery?
I’m just sayin…
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
That's the point, if it was only removal of the torn portion, it's no big deal
No reconstruction, no microfracture
It can lead to the latter
that is my point
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
Well Roy's had part of his meniscus shaved off, Kobe just had arthroscopic surgery a few days ago
No one’s making a big deal about them
And not to mention that in the case of partial removed meniscuses
regenerating new meniscus is possible
I am no orthapedist.
But, knees are a scary mother. And I’m not sold that he is healthy
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
This.
Especially since he only has 2 years left on his contract, and is likely to leave after that to play Super Friends like LeQuit did. Not worth giving up building pieces. We don’t even know how good our young guys really are, nor do we know if Devin will be back to All-Star status with a real coaching staff and outside shooters he can pass to. He sucked last year because he and Brook were the ONLY guys who could score. Defenses let Bobby Simmons camp on the 3 point line and doubled up on our 2 scorers. With a more well rounded team, I see no reason to think Devin won’t be much better.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Jul 28, 2010 8:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well I wouldn't really trade for any about to be a free agent unless I could get confirmation from him that he won't bolt
So it’s I given that I want CP3 with the knowledge that he’s not leaving me once he can
they're not thinking about that dude
as long as he’s on the team. Who cares if he has to spend 40 games in a suit on the sidelines, we have Chris Paul!!
smh
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Wait until some sort of report from the league comes out about his injury, then we can decide if it is too much of a risk or not. Otherwise, we are probably far from the truth.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Jul 28, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
osteoarthritis and torn meniscus are 2 totally different things. osteoarthritis is a chronic injury whereas a torn meniscus is an acute injury. You rarely see osteoarthritis in someone so young… occurs a lot more in 40+ y/o’s.
Complete removal of the meniscus can lead to osteoarthritis later on
But the question is, was his meniscus completely removed or did they remove just the torn portion, as is standard procedure?
anything can lead to osteoarthritis later on… its a “wear and tear” injury. of course losing ur meniscus can lead to osteoarthritis earlier.
I just did my orthopedics rotation and saw a bunch of arthroscopic surgeries to repair meniscus and clean the knee and ligaments. It all depends on how the meniscus looks during surgery which they won’t really reveal… so its hard to tell
Well so far I’ve found something from a New Orleans based reporter that reports that only the torn portion was removed. Should we be making a big deal about this if it was only a partial removal? What if it was a complete removal?
May Be Easy, But Won't Be Cheap
NOLA is struggling financially and Shinn is a really bad owner (e.g., worse than Ratner). Paul is available because of his injury and the fact that he has a low-cost replacement. He is certainly worth making a run at given that this is a superstar league and CP3 is a genuine NBA superstar. If we learned nothing from The Decision, we learned that top NBA FAs are going to coalesce around other superstars, so getting an anchor top ten player is worth something, and Paul certainly qualifies.
But he will be expensive. That price would be worth it only if we can retain him (and if his knee isnjury doesn’t significantly impact his play, natch). We can retain him only if you field a contender by the end of next season. We are building around Favors and Brook, so those guys can’t be part of the deal. Okafor plays their positions, but is not a good fit with Paul and his contract will destroy any financial flexibility. This is especially important given the draft picks and other players we would need to give up to get Paul.
So if we can get Paul without giving up Favors or Lopez and without taking back Okafor, we should do just about anything. Don’t see it happening.
BTW
Who do you think would make a better chip in this process: Yi or Ross? For a team that plays Stojakovik significant minutes, Yi might have had some appeal. They could parade a big pic of his face on a stick after every made three just like they do for Peja.
Yeah, the salary cap hurts us here, because we lost tradeable assets
CDR could have been a good, young, and cheap trade chip. Yi could have been useful in a trade too. Because of the apparently aimless LeBron chase, we gave them away for nothing
Hard Work
You gotta work hard to be “Scary Good”.
The "hard work" thing is funny..
Favors is so young and obviously isn’t very articulate, so in every interview we’ve heard he just talks about “working hard” and “putting the hard work in”. Is he really doing this? Maybe so, but i think he just doesnt know what else to say.
King's test
This is where Billy’s chance to have an (positive) impact to the Nets.
Let’s see how creative he will be in trading for someone without giving up our valuable assets.
"Beat the Heat!"
Wouldn't give up FAVORS for CHRIS PAUL?!?
I’d give up Tyreke! Basically they said they’d rather have somebody who has a chance to be “scary good” than the best PG in the league/MVP candidate? I don’t know but where does “scary good” rank? Is it above or below top 5 player in the league? And a chance?? He has a CHANCE and you won’t give that up??
Come on.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 28, 2010 10:19 AM EDT reply actions
Retaining Paul Is the Key
Paul doesn’t want to stay in NOLA because the team is not likely to contend. Why would he stay with the Nets or the Kings if they have no chance of contending? So is it worth mortgaging the future for a two year rental of CP3? Yes he would improve our teams, but would he make either of us better than a .500 club? Don’t think so.
Both teams need to develop all-stars from within and start to win before we can hope to attract and retain top FAs. I’d rather build with promising young players like Favors and Lopez than hope we can retain Paul and take on the franchise killing contract of that og-day Okafor.
Why can't we have a chance of contending?
The Hornets can’t contend because they’re all capped out with players who aren’t that good, don’t fit in, or can’t stay healthy. Not exactly the same case with us even with Okafor’s contract
He has 2 years left.
In the East, you’d easily be over .500 with him.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 28, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Karl Malone good
Aka greatest PF to play the game. Favors reminds me of him. Both seem like back country fools. Btw Shaq isn’t all that articulate but has a great mind.
by Zartan on Jul 28, 2010 1:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's good...
All you need now is a John Stockton.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 28, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Just sayin'
Nets are just making the obligatory inquiry regarding CP3.
And if the Nets didn’t get him, some fans will cry like a baby once again. Sigh.
"Beat the Heat!"
Rubio..
Just be patient, and wait for Kahn to screw the proverbial pooch next June..
And he's young so they could grow up together
Lopez, James, Favors, Rubio all growing up on the same team.
Kahn's not gonna give up Rubio
He loves pgs remember?
Give him two point guard back
Harris and Twill.
Not so New, been playing pro since he was 14
That is FOURTEEN. And he is not yet 20.
* MVP of the FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship: he averaged 22.3 points, 12.8 rebounds, 7.1 assists, 6.5 steals. In the final, accumulated 51 points, 24 rebounds, 12 assists and 7 steals.
* 2× led the Spanish ACB League in steals: (2007, 2009)
* Won the Spanish ACB League Rising Star Award: (2007)
* 3× FIBA European Young Player of the Year: (2007, 2008, 2009)
* 2× Spanish ACB League’s Best Point Guard: (2008, 2010)
* 2× All-Spanish ACB League Team: (2008, 2010)
* Mr. Europa European Player of the Year: (2008)
* Spanish ACB League Defensive Player of the Year: (2009)
* Catalan Tournament MVP: (2009)
* Euroleague Rising Star: (2010)
* Best PG of the ACB League (2010)
* Won the Spanish ACB League Top 5 Trophy: Most Spectacular Player of the Year (2010)
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
yea that's great
give us some NBA stats, oh nevermind, his game is unproven at the NBA level, and he’s a malcontent dictating when and where he’ll play…yep great guy. smh
I kept searching on line and I could not find Favors NBA stats, can you link me to them?
All I can find are his Summer League stats (IMPRESSIVE!!), and his college stats (IMPRESSIVE).
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
who said anything bout Favors?
I’m just saying you guys are blind if you keep pushing the Rubio agenda? He was fine in the Olympics, but the Olympics are still a Euro-ball style of play. I don’t see Favors holding out cause he doesn’t want to play in NJ. And we’ll have this conversation in 6 months when Favors has games under his belt, and Rubio still had 0. Chris Paul and Rubio talk is blind following the blind. You have no idea what you’re getting in either. I’m sure you can barrage me with stats that are irrelevant.
So five years of pro ball in Euro is irrelevant. I see, you are a deep basketball thinker on this.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was being facetious guess the rest didn't catch onto that...
Unless Rubio puts on some serious weight and dramatically improves his defense I wouldn’t give away much for him.
Time will tell though, he could develop.
Liking Rubio has to do with multiple things
First, by watching him play in the Olympics against the best of the world at the age of 18. Second, by watching clips of games on the internet, which I have found two complete games of Rubio and three the same scouting reports that everyone else reads from draftexpress.
Admittedly, it is not an ideal amount of information, but we have a bigger book on Rubio than on Favors. Givony not only has scouted Europe and seen Rubio in person multiple times and loves him, he also talks to other NBA scouts that work in Europe as well as the fact that he works as a scout for European teams.
The only people who are down on Rubio are the ones who haven’t seen him play in Europe. This is because the lack of talent coming out of Europe lately. Most of these guys who bust have only shown success for one year and are promising bigs. Rubio has been “on the radar” since he was 14 and all the news has been good.
He’s not perfect, he’s skinny, doesn’t shoot well, and may lack some quickness to defend (although I haven’t seen that and Givony calls him pesky) You may question his upside but he looks the part of a top notch pass first point guard. As far as superstar skills are concerned, he looks to me to having passing skills that is rare.
If you have a link to the Rubio games, would like.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Not sureif they are the full game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVsLLIgSgZM&feature=related
vs. CSKA Moskow about 5 minutes in clips
There are tons of games of his with like 10 minutes in clips
May not be full games but you can get a good idea when he is making plays all over.
There is no “whole” story. He is 19 years old.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Actually there are some where he didn't looks so good.
You can see him playing defense and offensively playing off the ball.
I think he would look better in an NBA offense where he would have bigs who could finish, more room to run and full reigns to the offense.
I think he would struggle in the beginning. It looks like he really plays his man tight where he can blow by him. You can disagree, but there is enough information on the kid to say what you like or don’t like about him. To say you don’t like him because there is not enough information just means you haven’t looked. 10 minutes in game clips is almost a quarter of the game and some of the clips are highlights of the other team.
To say you don’t like him because there is not enough information just means you haven’t looked.
I’¡e watched enough FULL GAMES to come to the conclusions I’ve made. I don’t like him because I’ve seen form him in FULL GAMES, not 10 minutes clips.
by Andres B on Jul 28, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So what don't you like?
You keep saying that there is not enough information.
His strength – He’s 19 and will get stronger, he’s 6’ 4 which is big
His defense – He compiles steals because he is a willing defender, the other can be fixed with good team play
His shooting – It’s not uncommon for pass first guys to struggle shooting early in their career.
You keep saying that you worry about his offense. He is not much different than JKidd. I’m not saying he will be Kidd, I just don’t see what’s not to like. He’s a cross between Kidd and Nash – to me. And I thought he looked good in the Olympics for an 18 year old kid playing with a bum hand.
He is not much different than JKidd
Yes, he is. Kidd was WAY stronger. His post up game was special and was a complete headache for opposing PGs. Rubio can’t do that. I don’t see Rubio averaging double digit scoring numbers for his NBA career. He has no offensive weapons. And his offensive flaws will get more exposed in the NBA (again, stronger physical opposition when it comes down to finish around the rim, the 3 pt line is closer in Europe, etc). He’s an intelligent defender but he’ll struggle against much bigger and stronger PGs.
Look, other European players who were star players over there didn’t have success in the NBA because their games didn’t translate well the NBA. The NBA is a whole different world.
You're right about the difference in posting up
but I don’t think Rubio will have any trouble finishing, he creates separation because of his ability to pass the ball at any time, more like Nash than Kidd. I do think Rubio will fix his shot as he pushes the ball right now and it will open some things up for him.
If you watch the video of HIS Euroleague games they take the ball out of his hands to run their offense in the half court. In the NBA he will be running a lot more pick and roll where I think he will excel.
Sure Points like Rose will be able to muscle him a bit, the Nets will need to be able to move the two over to defend the point if they have to. I think Rubio is better off playing the perimeter-oriented player. At 6 4 he should be able to move over and Lee can play point guards.
Rubio does seem to have terrific feel for angles on Defense and playing the passing lanes. He looks like a good help defender. When stuck in mismatches the Nets have placed some potentially talented defensive players on their roster this year.
rubio is not very strong
he has a lot of trouble finishing in the paint from what i’ve seen. As he gets older that will improve though
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s 19.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Look
I’m not saying he’ll be a bum. I actually have said before that I think his passing skills are special enough to guarantee him a solid NBA career. I just don’t think he’ll be the superstar some here think he will be, because of the reasons I’ve pointed out to several times.
I think we're treating this superstar things a little unfair
There are few “superstars”. If the Nets put the pieces together and allow players to do what they do best the will win. Sometimes players are superstars like Jordan, LeBron, and Shaq and sometimes players are superstars because of their success. Duncan became a superstar by playing his game within a system, on a team with complementary players, and solid coaching and management.
It is a lot to assume the Nets are on the road to the same type of thing, but I like Rubio because he fits the talent already assembled on this team. If Favors is “scary” good then we can win and other can argue whether it is Rubio, Favors, Lopez or whomever that is leading the team.
Duncan was HoF caliber from the moment he entered the league. He is not a “system” player.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
And Favors is not a Duncan.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Not comparing their games
I’m comparing their situation. Duncan was two or three years older when he entered the league.
My point is that if Duncan didn’t have Robinson to lean on early and Manu and Parker late, he would be in Dirk land and people would be saying that Duncan is not a superstar because he didn’t win anything.
If Favors realizes his potential he could be a superstar because he is willing, like Duncan, to work on his game. He is a great teammate because of his ability and attitude. Combined with other players who “fit” around him he might be considered a superstar or maybe Rubio would be considered a superstar because of Favors.
I think people are underestimating
Favors ability to be “molded” into a great player. He’s not Amare because unlike Amare, Favors seems like a team player, willing to do the things necessary to win.
We all see the ability, we just disagree whether the pieces will fall into place. Getting a pass first point like Rubio would be a step in the right direction – in my opinion.
this
I am pretty big on Rubio too.
His ball handling, passing and aggressiveness on defense(to make up for a lack of strength) are the things that stand out to me.
This kid could break a textbook 2-2-1 press by himself. His game is VERY deceptive.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
defense...
…his defense is aggressive. To me, if you aren’t a naturally gifted defender, the next best thing to do would be to play aggressive on the ball defense and play the passing lanes well and those are two things that Rubio does.
He needs to get stronger though because it’s imperative for him to be able to finish around the basket because his jumper is not very good at all.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not good at that
And in the NBA he’d face much stronger opposition when trying to finish around the basket.
His 2 pt FG in the Euroleague last season was ridiculous: .382. And his perimeter shooting won’t look any better in the NBA. Don’t forget the 3 pt line is closer to the basket than in the NBA.
He just lacks the offensive talent. He’s a gifted passer, but that’s it IMO.
I think his shot can be fixed
His mechanics are horrible as he is always leaning forward. I don’t think it is uncommon in past first players, his set shot can be fixed, but I doubt he’ll ever be a great pull up guy.
Lopez and Harris for CP3 and Okafor :) he he he
OK, the geniuses (they think) can start bashing me with this suggestion, especially the Lopez fanatics.
Lopez is good, but I don't see Tim Duncan good. With this suggestion, they can keep their dream hope alive of having a Dwight Howard in Derrick Favors.
Dont look at the one-to-one comparison. Which is the better combo, Okafor-CP3 or Lopez-Harris?
Not if we take away Lopez
It’s no doubt Paul is far better than Harris, but without Lopez the deal would be pointless.
Harris without Lopez is worse than Paul without Lopez. Paul AND Lopez however…
In my heart, i would not want to lose either Lopez or Favors for CP3. I even would stick with Harris.
What we really lack is a definite SF or SG go-to-guy to end the games.
Maybe Damion James will surprise everybody and be our Paul Pierce :)
I see Paul Pierce in him.
D James is gonna be very good. I don’t expect Paul Pierce, but def better than James Posey. The Nets have a bunch of guys with a lot of potential, just hope it works out.
"ESPN greenlights 'The Decision' for 22 more episodes."
by DrazenPetrovic on Jul 28, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
:)
That’s like saying a worse passing Magic Johnson.
Or a Dwight Howard who dan’t dunk.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Lol well he can switch from the 3 to 4 the same way
I think he can also contribute on the boards the same way on the right team. Might not get as many steals or blocks, but will be a versatile defender all the same. Not as crazy insane athletic but with plenty of hops and speed as well.
And with this "All New" team...
Who know if Outlaw, or Morrow, or James, or TWill, or CLee will step up and be that? There is no point in trading away any of these assets when we really don’t know what their true value is, for a guy who plays a position where we already have an All-Star. There is no reason to hastily make a trade for a 2 year rental when there are so many questions regarding our own group.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Jul 28, 2010 11:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
John,
…you have common sense sir. Hopefully it rubs off on our fellow fans who want to bet the farm on a guy that has a torn up knee coupled with a questionable attitude and shady motives.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
dude
no, seriously what are you thinking by this?
Lopez is one of the top bigs in the league going into his 3rd year. Okafor is not and he’s getting up there in age.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Things are different here than they were with Team USA
While we’ll be running, he’ll still be the focus of the offense
People are really putting too much stock into that Team USA crap
…it’s annoying. I really thought that folks knew more about basketball than to write off a kid, a frickin stud center at that, after a frickin scrimmage
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Lopez is fine going North/South
But he would still have to put time into his conditioning. Bigs running the floor has proved beneficial for all the perimeter players
maybe losing a few lbs could help with that
I still want him to improve lower body strength for better positioning in the post.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Lopez fanatics? The guy is a young player who is already one of the top big men in the league. I think any Nets fan would be opposed to dealing him. Especially when you pair him with Harris and go after a dude with bad knees.
"ESPN greenlights 'The Decision' for 22 more episodes."
by DrazenPetrovic on Jul 28, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
The headline is a bit misleading here.
The “scary good” Favors
is very different than
The “chance to be scary good” Favors (which is the actual quote).
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
and "chance to be scary"
is different than" chance to be scary good" (which is actual quote)
Maybe that should have been the choice. Either way I can’t wait to see the big man play. In regards to Lopez, I do have a feeling that Favors is going to grow into a center by the time his rookie contract is up. I still think that Lopez is becoming a really good player but I wouldn’t be surprised if he is dealt one day.
I can see some of that. Not convinced on “scary good” Favors though.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
you're not convinced about any player on this team
I have a feeling the Nets front office and coaching staff know more than we do about how “scary good” this kid can be. I already noticed some positive things from him during SL and I am glad that the Nets aren’t stupid enough to trade this kid
Lopez and Favors will leave bodies in their wake. Two years tops.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
you’re not convinced about any player on this team
That is not true at all. I have very good vibes on the potential of
Harris, Lee, Outlaw, Morrow, Farmar, Lopez, James
For this team, this year.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
and Favors and Williams?
I think they all have a lot of potential.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
and you're biased against them because?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not bias, anymore than your thoughts are bias.
Favors is TOO YOUNG to have an significant impact on this team this year, and should be brought along slowly so he grows. He is an investment in the future.
No playing time is available for Twill at the 2 guard. And his immaturity will run him afoul with Avery. He will not like being on the bench much.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
pure assumptions
can’t even take this seriously.
You say James, an unproven rookie, has potential, but automatically rule out Williams and Favors for bogus reasons.
All of these young kids have potential. And, these games about minutes that you want to play with Williams are based upon nothing concrete.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
James is a much more developed player, and much older than Favors.
If my view that Twill’s minutes will be limited isn’t concrete, your view that there will be tons of them are made of air.
He is going to have to play the 2 guard.
We just spent good money on the best shooter in the league at the 2 (one of them). There is evidence that Harris will play some 2. Lee is a better defender than Twill at the 2, and Avery love defense. All it adds up to his Twill not getting a lot of time.
And Twill’s immaturity is pretty much a proven fact of the universe.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
and players never mature, right?
spare me.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You do not COUNT on someone “maturing”, especially when his best bro is Nate Robinson, who he hangs out with all the time.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
pure assumption
and plus, Williams is also close with other people aside from Nate. Just stop it and let the kid show and prove. You obviously have something against him to go this far by trying to assume that he won’t play and he’ll end up in jail or whatever nonsense because he’s friends with Nate Robinson
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I merely do not have positive assessments of his ability to help THIS team, given how it is constructed, the depth at the position he most would excel at, his general attitude problem, the youth of the team, the strictness of the coach. All these factors lead me not to be “up” on Twill, for this team.
But as I have said many times, he could be very good on another team, in another situation.
I have nothing against this guy. And Nate is one of my favorite players to watch.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
at Mr DB
Williams is also close with other people aside from Nate.
Exactly. IE: Brandon Roy. Funny how this isn’t mentioned.
It's a Seattle thing
All of the players from the Seattle region are very close and supportive of one another. As a matter of fact T-Will just helped out Jamal Crawford during his summer camp a few weeks ago.
Because Twill doesn’t tweet endlessly about hangin’ with his best bro Roy all summer.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 30, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I should be clear.
As far as Favors and Twill goes. My restraint of optimism is concerning just THIS year, and THIS team.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm actually quite optimistic about ALL of our players
I think all of them bring something to the table, except Petro who only really brings… height. I’d have no problem keeping them all together, I actually like keeping cores together like the Spurs, it fosters familiarity and consistency.
But at the end of it I think that yields us a good team, not a championship team.
In my mind Lopez is the 2nd best player on a championship team. Devin caaan be that at his peak, but most likely is the Ron Artest to your Lakers. TWill can be the 3rd best guy as well if things brake right for him, much like Iguodala should only be your 3rd best player.
Point being, we don’t have right at this moment, a transcendently good guy. Lopez can hopefully make a leap this season to greatness.
And I’m willing to trade anyone outside of Lopez really because.. well you gotta give something to get something. If the right package comes along, I’m making that decision.
key words
“the right package comes along”
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully what we see from Favors on the boards in not reflective of his actual ability
With Lopez’s weakness being rebounding, I don’t really care if Favors has any scoring ability at all. He could average 2 points a game for all I care. I just want him to be able to make up for Brook’s merely average or only slightly better than average rebounding. Same way with team defense, but I don’t see Favors having any problems with team defense
Brook was handling too much of the load also from what we've seen
I could only imagine what it must be like to have a rebounding partner named Yi. But a stronger Lopez in upper and lower body wouldn’t hurt either
How can you say rebounding is his weakness when he gets 9+?
I don’t get it.
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 28, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Well his rebounding rate from his rookie year to this year actually got worse
And there are still games where he gets a very pitiful amount of rebounds. He started of rebounding well early in the season, around 9-10 per game in November-December, but that tapered off to around 7-8 the rest of the season.
you also have to think that...
…the mental aspect of getting his teeth kicked in every night might have had an effect on that as well
We all underestimate how bad the situation was last year and are killing players unjustly because of it.
This kid averaged 19 9 and nearly 2 blks per. The last player that needs to be bashed on here is Lopez.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I am also guilty
of killing Harris on here, but I still feel that his effort on defense warranted my criticism of him. It was inexcusable.
Everyone on this team has a clean slate.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Brook hasn't really had a reputation of being a dominant rebounder throughout his basketball career
From a 2008 draft profile
Even though he grabbed 8.2 boards a game as a sophomore, Lopez isn’t a dominant rebounder.
as long as he isn't rebounding as bad as Krstic, fine
He is what he is. I think that the rebounding can improve though with work and effort.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the numbers don't lie
He can definitely be a 10 rebound a game guy, but it doesn't seem to be his forte
I mean, Amare grabs 9 a game too, but he’s far from a good rebounder
Leave the team how it is
Looking at this young our only missing piece is a decent Power Forward Brook is a Top Five Center and Harris is a Top five point guard, you can disagree with me but we will see when the season starts when Brook and Harris average 20 and 10 respectfully.
With a decent Power Forward Nets have a starting five that can gve you 70-75 and a bench that can you 25-30 points a game.
Houston may be willing to waive or trade a Power Forward they have 9 bigs.
Scola
Ming
Miller
Hayes
Hill
Jeffries
Johnson
Patterson
If they waive someone like Jefferies or Hayes the Nets should pick them up.
Anderson
I like Harris, but he's not a top 5 point guard
Top 15 maybe. Top 20 sure. But there are more than 5 guys I’d take ahead of him
And I think Houston is gonna need all the big men they can get with Yao still being out with his injury. Maybe even going into retirement if his knee doesn’t heal this year according to him
THANK GOD
Glad to get into work today and reading this headline.
Good to see that the front office is not willing to jump off of the bridge just because of a big named player. Hopefully my fellow Nets fans can understand why being prudent and not scrambling to kill your cap space is the best way to go.
No way do we give up any young prospects in a deal for Paul if we have to take Okafor’s contract. They should be including cash and their 2011 first rd pick if they want to get rid of Okafor so badly.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
Agreed
We shouldn’t give up T WIll either. He’s a future star
No reason to give up on a second year player, its absolutely stupid and short sighted.
i mean, some fans act like he’s Hassan Adams for god’s sake
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly smh
I think some people are linking T-Will to Nate and CDR and are biased against him from that.
lesson learned
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Insane
The Nets should be willing to give up every single person on their roster to get a talent like Chris Paul — if Paul were willing to entend his deal. Paul is one of the top 5 or 10 players in the league. The Nets don’t have anybody who is even close to that – Lopez included.
If Paul were willing to extend his deal — I would DEFINATELY trade Favors, Harris and T-Will to get him. (OTOH, trading young guys to get at most 2 years of Paul isn’t worth it – the point is to use him as the cornerstone.)
BTW – I find so humerous some of the proposed trades here. Humphries in the trade? Why would NO ever want that garbage. Humphries is at BEST a mediocre backup PF.
Agreed
Fans on this site are so high on these young assests that they think<key work are going to some kind of superstars it true that I wouldn’t give up Favors in a deal that would seand us Paul for a two yaer rental if it was five years I’ll do it without thinking about it.
Plus is T-Will near a talent like Paul?
The whole U.S. Knows about paul ask them about T-will they’ll be like who is that guy.
Is Favors as good as David west or Emaka Okofor?
Favors hasn’t proven anything yet and he isn’t until years from now
it's not about being "high" on young assets
it’s about not being a damned fool. Some of us aren’t caught up on “names”, but the reality of the situation.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
wondering on draft night
who here would’ve dealt the #3 pick and twill (or devin) for CP3 & Okafur?
imagine something extremely witty here
this is ridiculous
Is Favors as good as David west or Emaka Okofor?
Favors hasn’t proven anything yet and he isn’t until years from now
Tell the Hornets if they’d trade you one of those 2 for Favors.
Exactly right
Favors could be better than West or Okafor. He could also be the second coming of Stromile Swift. New Orleans would love to have that option, but mostly based on the price tag – since Favors comes at a fraction of cost of an Okafor or a West.
Overvaluing your team’s talent is a classic Internet message board issue. Everyone should remember that Harris and Lopez were good enough to get a team … a 12-70 record. We ought not go overboard on their talent.
So what?
Harris and Lopez were good enough to get a team … a 12-70 record.
Harris also started for a team that made it to the Finals and that had one of the absolute best records in NBA history.
we shouldn't go overboard about the whole 12-70 thing either
as some sort of indictment on every player left over from that team. it’s stupid.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And we should not just brush it off as the coaches fault either.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
yet, we could be overvaluing another team's talent
sigh….
and the point of drafting rookies in the lottery is to develop them. You just don’t make blind assumptions. The Nets feel that they have something here with Favors. I’ll take their word for it, and not your assumption.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
notice...
…your post does not contain anything about his knee injuries, or the fact that we’d have to take back Okafor and totally kill our flexibility to add another player to help out. You really aren’t considering anything aside from that the fact that Paul, if he’s healthy, and the jury is out on that, is a top 10 player.
You have to THINK and be prudent about stuff like this. You just don’t jump and trade away everything because he’s a big name. Think clearly about the situation.
You want to give up everything for him, and then next thing you know he is in the same situation that he was in NO, on a team with little talent and no flexibility to make moves. It’s insanity
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
from Kerber’s article, it looks like the Nets are concerned about Paul having just 2 years remaining on his contract. They know they are not one of his preferred destinations and that he could bolt to another team if we didn’t win anything, which is what would happen, esp since we’d have to gut our team for him.
shhh andres...
…logic disrupts daydreams.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we all just agree
That we are not getting Chris Paul, so these arguments are pointless.
by mills16 on Jul 28, 2010 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Don't give up Favors
Give up Lopez instead. ;)
Well then they tell NO that we are doing them a favor. A HUGE favor
It’s a tit for tat type deal. They want Favors, but we tell them that isn’t going to happen, especially since we have to take that criminal Okafor contract. Tell them that we are doing a humongous favor for them by taking his contract, maybe then they might understand why we won’t be giving them the number 3 pick. We wont be giving up Derrick as long as was have to take Okafor’s contract.
BTW, we really have a very slim chance of landing Paul anyways. The fact that we are talking about this is pretty depressing. Very small chance this happens.
Consequences will never be the same.
i could care less if we land him or not
build from within.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 28, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Stay the course.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Jul 28, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This was written by the user KingOfDenial from a month ago; it is really helpful info on CP3's condition
When CP3 was healthy, he was THE BEST PG in the league (note, I did not say ‘arguably’). The question now arises if he is the same player post-injury. Last year, Chris Paul had major surgery on his knee, removing his meniscus. If the Nets are considering trading Devin Harris and the #3 pick in the draft, the first thing we should be thinking is "How bad is his knee?". I just graduated medical school, so I feel I’m in a great position to discuss this topic; as I am big Nets fan, and have a medical background.
During my Orthopedic rotation, I saw a number of surgeries and injuries, so I just want to explain exactly what is going on with his knee right now for those of you who don’t understand. Your knee consists of 3 bones meeting together — 2 in the calf and 1 in the thigh. To prevent these bones from grinding on one another and causing IMMENSE amounts of pain, God gave us ‘meniscus’ between them. A Meniscus is simply cartilage, like what’s in your nose and ears. Just soft tissue to absorb the pressure of everyday knee activity. You have 2 menisci in each knee; the medial meniscus, and the lateral meniscus. Rather than give you all a lesson on anatomical terminology, for all intents and purposes I will say there is a right meniscus, and a left meniscus IN EACH KNEE!
Now, I keep reading people mentioning "microfracture surgery". This is not what Chris Paul had. Microfracture surgery is done when the menisci begin to fade. Just the normal "wear and tear" of life. It is more common in athletes as they are much more active than the average human being. Years upon years of running and jumping in games and practice will hasten the process of wear and tear. What the surgery is, is basically making small breaks in the bones so as to encourage cartilage growth. Hence the term, micro – fracture! This should explain why many players slow down significantly after the surgery, as they have just had numerous cracks placed into their bones.
What Chris Paul did was completely different. He had a tear in his meniscus, and decided to remove the entire thing. So right now, Chris Paul has a total of THREE menisci, as oppose to 4. What does this mean for his career? That’s not exactly concrete, as all patients react differently, but I can tell you what is most probable.
Medically speaking, there shouldn’t be that much of an IMMEDIATE change, but you can bet the farm he will require microfracture surgery at some point in his career. Again, all patients are different, so you never want to say 100%, but it is highly highly unlikely that he will not. This sounds a lot worse than it seems though, let me switch from doctor to fan for a second..
I want to use Jason Kidd as an example here, simply because he is also one of the greatest PG’s of all time, and also had microfacture surgery. Kidd, although he was effected by the surgery, still played at a high level for years after. Why? Because Kidd’s strength was not dunking, nor was it dribble penetration, nor was it scoring. It was HIS VISION! Likewise, while Chris Paul may be an incredibly gifted scorer, an explosive athlete, and a nightmare for opposing defenses, his greatest strength is UNDOUBTEDLY his vision. Let me switch back to doctor for a second — for those of you who don’t know, removing your meniscus does NOT affect your vision :)
Another important medical point to keep in mind, is that Chris Paul still has 1 good meniscus in his effected knee. This may mitigate the situation a bit. Players that have had microfracture surgery in the past, have had deteriorating menisci on both sides of that knee. Meaning the ‘right’ and ‘left’ meniscus of that knee were effected. Like I said, it is a "wear and tear" problem, and basketball puts stress on the entire knee, so both menisci will wear out.
In Chris Paul’s case, he still 1 meniscus between his Femur and Tibia, which causes some separation on the other side of the knee. This should prevent the "bone on bone" grinding of that area just a bit. That is not to say that he is fine, but it does mitigate the seriousness of the situation a tad.
The real issue that would be of concern is if Chris Paul can adapt to his new body. He still has 1 meniscus in there, which will effectively cause one side of his femur to be a bit lower than the other. This might make Chris Paul feel a bit different, perhaps even frightened. When he plays, he might have a hard time "trusting" his knee because it feels a little unstable, and as a result might play a bit softer. It should be perfectly stable though, as by the grace of God, we have 4 ligaments in there to prevent instability; all 4 intact in Paul’s case.
Consequences will never be the same.
AND THIS REPORT, as professional as it sounds, was unfactual
Last year, Chris Paul had major surgery on his knee, removing his meniscus..
Paul’s meniscus was not removed. The torn part was removed, which is standard for almost all meniscus tears.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It was this exaggerated report that lead to all kinds of Paul’s career is over hysteria on NetsDaily.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That is the only part of the above report that I thought was unfactual.
I thought only part of it was removed as well. But I can’t recall the source I heard it from. Do you remember where you heard only part of it was removed?
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Jul 28, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ssf/2010/03/new_orleans_hornets_chris_paul_8.html
Paul remains sidelined as a result of Feb. 4 arthroscopic surgery to remove the torn portion of the meniscus cartilage in his left knee
Well if that is true, I think we are severly overstating the seriousness of this injury.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Jul 28, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Well maybe that's what they meant, they removed the entire torn meniscus, he still does have meniscus even with the removal of that one
So i dunno. Is there a doctor in the house?
you will only truly know from the surgeon's operative report
you cannot fully trust any sports website unless they have quoted the surgeon or his operative report. I’m a physician too. Surgeon’s often do partial meniscectomy’s when there is injury and at times a full meniscectomy may be needed.
The bottom line is that there is no way to truly know unless you can find the op report as the information released by a team is unlikely to give all the actual information
Would a full meniscectomy be advisable since that could very likely impair his playing ability in the future?
As far as I know, I think they removed it instead because he could return faster as they were still trying to make the playoffs. Would they really risk his long term prognosis for that?
in my comment below, i agree with ure assessment
the surgeon would want to spare as much as possible considering the circumstances. We just don’t know how much was damaged
King of Denial's report was pretty good
I wonder if the young man (or woman) is going in to orthopedics.
As for kv stating it was unfactual, you just never know how much is facual and unfactual even with the quote or link you posted.
The best way I can put it is that if you have a Snicker’s bar and take a bite that is 1/4th of the bar and yhe next guy takes a bite of his Snicker’s bar and eats 3/4’s. They are both still Partially eaten. That being said, I’m sure the surgeon would like to spare CP3 as much as possible. Only the op report and surgeon know (and perhaps follow up MRI) the extent of his knee and meniscal damage)
When I say it was unfactual, it just overstated the nature of the injury. There is good reason for this because there simply was not a lot of information available, and some of descriptions were conflicting. Sometimes it was referred to as a “repair”, sometimes as a “removal”, you really had to look a multiple reports to get the whole picture. To be sure, it has been consistently reported that it was only a partial tear, but descriptions of the surgery varied in a pretty vague way. And you are right, no one knows the degree of the procedure, other than it was not a removal of the meniscus. There are all kinds of levels of tear and partial removal. Roy had his torn meniscus shaved at was hopping around very soon after, Paul not the case.
What one could be sure of is that any team involved in a Paul trade would have exact records of the state of the knee before, during and after.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 28, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
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