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What In The World is Khan Doing With the Wolves? Rubio...

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Where in the Triangle Does Rubio Fit?

Someone brought up the Triangle offense on the forum, and it made me re-realize that it is dying out with Jackson and Winter. But then I got to thinking that there is one new coach in the league that is all about the Triangle and that is Kurt Rambis of the Wolves. But this is the crazy thing. Everyone knows that Kahn is on a mad mission to stockpile point guards since last year. He drafted a slew and right now has Flynn, just traded for Telfair, signed Ridnour, and has Rubio waiting in Spain. And what is the one thing that the Triangle doesn't need? Point guards, at least point guards that break people down and distribute the ball. What in the hell is going on here?

Here is an interesting article from November of last year that talks about the Triangle the the burden that it put on the young Wolves, in particular Flynn. It turns out that Rambis has modified the Triangle to be more point guard friendly. An excerpt:

"Too much is made of it," said Rambis. "I think a lot of people don't understand it but if you understand basketball it's not very complicated. It's just a format to give the players something to play out of. It's got great spacing. It teaches the players how to move without the basketball. A lot of players struggle in it because they assume the offense starts when the ball is in their hands and stops when the ball is out of their hands. This teaches everybody to play together and see things that are available to them when they get the ball."

Despite calling Jackson and Rex Winter his coaching "mentors," Rambis is quick to point out that he is running a slightly tweaked triangle in Minnesota than the one Winters taught Jackson.

"I'm not really running it the way that Phil runs it," said Rambis. "Some of the aspects of how we flow into the triangle we tried to implement last year with the Lakers. We called it 'Live Ball,' where we run it with a one-guard front. I wanted to be able to give Jonny Flynn and Ramon Sessions space to operate if they had an opportunity to take the ball and go one-on-one."

Unlike Jackson, who surrounded himself with assistants familiar with the triangle (Clemons, Winter and Frank Hamblen) and players who had played in it (Ron Harper and John Salley), when he came to Los Angeles from Chicago, Rambis is basically going it alone in Minnesota. Not only have none of his players ever played in the system before but none of his assistants have ever coached it either.

"Everybody is learning it for the first time," said Rambis. "Even the coaching staff is learning it. There have been pockets of games where they've done it really well but they just haven't been able to put it together for a whole ball game."


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/arash_markazi/11/05/wolves/index.html#ixzz0uvnVz8fQ

Star-divide

But this is the crazy thing to me, and perhaps explains some of Kahn's more recent point guard mania. Even though Rambis has tried to create "live ball", a Triangle Offense that is open to a point taking advantage of a one-on-one opportunity if it is there, this offense still is not driven by point guard play. In other words, they have so many point guards because the hybrid kind of point guard that might thrive in this system is pretty hard to find. Already Jefferson proved that he could not operate down low in this version of the Triangle, called on to become a playmaker and more a rebounder, and it seems that there are remaining questions if Flynn is suited for it either. Does Ridnour solve the puzzle, is he the final fall back or admission?

But the really big question in my mind is: How in the world would Rubio ever fit into it. Rubio is a free-flowing playmaker in the classic mode, a ball-in-his-hand guy. While it seems that Rambis has tweaked the Triangle in order to make it more PG friendly, more open court, the system itself would seem antithetical to most of the talents that Rubio brings. It would be like putting Magic Johnson in the Triangle. No thank you.

All this is to say, either Kahn's bizarre attempt to corner point guards is driven by the unique demands that this version of the Triangle puts on that position - the traditional Triangle of course almost doesn't have a point guard distributor per se - or Kahn (and/or Rambis) has deeply misread and continues to misread just what a point guard can do in this version. In any case, it would seem that Rubio would have less value for them than almost any other team in the league. Rubio, one would think, should be available unless Kahn is convinced that for some reason Rubio, of all point guards, is the one that would make his whole system work, perhaps due to the overall flashing and cutting of the European game, the lack of set plays. It strikes me as just one vast miscalculation on Kahn's part if that is the assumption. Why put Rubio in the Triangle at all?

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Comments

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And the Kahn fad continues...
Rambis has said the team is using the Triangle as a base for the 2nd unit so they don’t have to run plays for the bench players. It makes sense since the entire Triangle offence is about ball movement and is more of a motion offence then pick and roll. But the team is first and foremost a running team and both FO and coaching staff agree with that.

This is from a Wolves fan, and i’ve heard many more try to hammer this point into peoples heads. THE WOLVES ARE NOT A TRIANGLE TEAM. Stop being so concerned about Kahn and the triangle, point guards, small forwards and power forwards. I can’t even keep track of what people claim Kahn is trying to collect these days.

by PirateB on Jul 27, 2010 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Some more, i think this posters 1st point applies here.
Man, this general board stuff if brutal…more dum dum’s than a candy store. I feel like creating a thead entitled “Kahn and the timberwolves for dummies/newbies”, and posting the link in all the bashing threads.

- it’s KAHN. K-A-H-N. not Khan, that’s star trek…
- we don’t exclusively run the triangle. We are mostly a running team who runs a read/react offense when in the half court set. Unfortuneately, the D in MN is so horrible we didn’t get many fast break opportunities last year.
- Rambis played showtime laker ball under Riley, and assistant coached the triangle under Phil Jackson, stop hating on Kahn for Rambis trying to combine strategies from two of the greatest coaches the NBA has ever seen.
- If you realize we are rebuilding from an inside/outside team to a run and gun team, most of the moves make sense. Maybe the wolves overpaid, but the players aquired still make sense.
- I love all the PG jokes, i really do. It’s a clear sign to not listen to or respect you as a basketball mind, especially when it comes to the wolves. Anyone can watch NBA 2NITE on ESPN or read a Bill Simmons article and spew nonsense, slander, and jokes. It doesn’t really make you look like you know what you are talking about though. It makes you look like a weak minded sheep.
- to expand. WE KNEW RUBIO WASN’T COMING OVER, and they needed a PG, so whats wrong with Flynn? If it wasn’t flynn, it most likely would’ve been Derozan. I’m happy with Flynn.

by PirateB on Jul 27, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is it knowing the Rubio wasn't coming over when they were always saying how Rubio and Flynn could play together?

And I don’t know how to respect the basketball mind that says Darko is like manna from heaven

by muwu on Jul 27, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

They really can't

Rubio and flynn lack outside shooting or solid midrange weapons, especially if they play against a longer 2 guard who can sag off them to prevent penetration, so who plays SG?

by TheMo on Jul 30, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Flynn of course

He is more of a SG in a PGs body anyway, and his outside shot is just fine.

by PirateB on Jul 30, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

We will be talking about Rubio

at some point in the next year. It is a given.

by Net Income on Jul 27, 2010 9:07 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

Consequences will never be the same.

by NetsMets4Life on Jul 27, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes sir!

one of the things i think about the future of the franchise is how the Nets need to acquire a superstar. This did not happen in free agency this summer. At the moment you can’t call anyone on the Nets a superstar but we can hope that Brook and Favors turn into the best front court in the league in a few years.

Rubio plays with flair and has that flashy style which creates highlights but he is also a solid player, wasn’t he just the MVP in Europe and he started in the Olympic games final against the Dream Team when he was 18.

Acquiring Rubio could be the Nets way of getting their own superstar as it seems clear Rubio will never play for the TWolves.

by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 28, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Jul 28, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rubio a superstar?

I doubt he averages double digit scoring numbers at the end of his career. And if he does, it won’t be at an efficient level.

by Andres B on Jul 28, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know. Our currently bench-warming Twill will be dominating the league by then.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Jul 28, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

sigh

This is getting PATHETIC.

by Andres B on Jul 29, 2010 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I KNOW.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Jul 29, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I were Billy King

I would be spending every waking hour trying to think of ways to get Rubio.

by Net Income on Aug 1, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

i very much hope so, i like the way he can control the whole game tempo and distribute the ball, With an AJ system, a playmaker like this would fit perfectly.

by Benl1 on Aug 2, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

There should be, he is a pass first pg, that would fit well with avery's system

and if they could avoid taking on big salaries, they could have room for Carmelo still, might have to give up TWill, as he is better fit for the triangle offense, maybe kahn would want harris,knowing him. I dont know maybe more draft picks, whatever it takes, Rubio would be a pretty decent splash, and wouldnt be a dangerous acquisition, and would be perfect for our youth movement.

by Benl1 on Jul 27, 2010 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Rubio will absolutely kill on the Nets

Could you imagine him playing the pick and roll with Lopez and Favors. It also seems like the Nets have compiled some shooters. James, Outlaw and especially Morrow all seem to be good outside shooters.

Yes, I left TWill out, who seems like he would be a great fit for their offense where he COULD play the 1 and 2. If TWill does become a point guard or have point guard skills it would be in a system like the triangle. That is where the speculation begins. I just hope it ends with Rubio.

by gsloots on Jul 27, 2010 11:12 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Luke Ridnour could start for the Minnesota Timberwolves at point guard next season. He’s certainly going to push Jonny Flynn.

On that level, the Ridnour signing by Minnesota — made official on Wednesday, for four-years, $16 million —is a good one.

I like Ridnour, like his game. I just keep trying to figure out the grand plan in Minnesota, and it makes my head hurt. I need to stop it.

This signing that gives the Timberwolves three point guards on the roster right now, don’t forget Ramon Sessions. The Timberwolves are reportedly shopping him around so they are down to two points.

Well, still three if you could the best of the group, Ricky Rubio, who is playing for Barcelona for at least one more season.

I thought the Timberwolves brought in Kurt Rambis to run the triangle offense? It’s an offense that doesn’t need a strong point guard, rather it needs attacking wings. The Wolves had to modify — or abandon — parts of the offense last year because the personnel didn’t really fit it.

Ridnour is a better fit for the triangle than any of the others, not perfect but better. So maybe he does get the starting nod, something he would like, he told the Star- Tribune.

    “It’s something I wanted,” he said of the chance. “I wanted the fair chance to compete, not just for a starting role, but to get playing time. I’m at the point in my career where I’ve been through a lot. [But] I’m going to get better and better, even at my age. I’m excited about the opportunity to come in here and compete and play and help this team win games.”


Win games? My head is hurting again.

Here.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:40 AM EDT reply actions  

And This is Hilarious: The Hot Potato Offense.

Here.

With the signing of Luke Ridnour, Minnesota Timberwolves GM David Kahn now has three point guards on the roster that he signed in the last two years. "It’s not my intent to have three healthy point guards on the roster" Kahn told the Pioneer Press.

‘I want TEN healthy point guards on the roster.’ Kahn told Joe Robertson of the Daily Bugle. It’s a bold and daring strategy that many have openly questioned since Kahn drafted two point guards in the first round of last year’s NBA draft. And then signed one more immediately after.

One thing is for sure though, Kahn has a vision. A vision so brilliant that not even HE can see it. "We don’t know how this will all play out." Kahn told the Pioneer Press. I’m not making up that quote. He seriously said that. He admitted to having no idea what he was doing. We are witnessing pure brilliance right before our eyes people.

Because if Kahn even had the slightest clue, he would put himself at risk of having Pat Riley getting Leonardo Dicaprio to implant ideas in his head when he was dreaming. Much like what Riley did to Wade, Bosh and James in order to get them to join the Heat. Riley would implant some stupid idea into Kahn’s head like trying to put together a team of failed number two draft picks. Side note, I hear the Timberwolves have an interest in signing Tyson Chandler next year.

Kahn did however give some insight into what he kinda sorta thinks is a good idea. ‘I’m trying to get Kurt (Timberwolves head coach Kurt Rambis) to ditch the triangle offense. I know the triangle worked in LA and Chicago, but I just don’t get it. There’s five people out on the court for us. Why leave two out?’ Kahn told the Daily Bugle.

Instead Kahn wants Rambis to employ the Hot Potato Offense. Which, in this writer’s humble opinion, might be the greatest frickin idea I have ever heard. How could that not win the Timberwolves a championship? Wait, you mean you don’t know what the Hot Potato Offense is? (sigh)

It works kind of the opposite of the seven seconds or less Mike D’Antoni offense. The philosophy of that offense is that with spacing the floor and ball movement you should be able to get the best possible shot within the first seven seconds of the shot clock. Well, in the Hot Potato Offense the goal is to pass the ball around as quick as possible and the last person to have it in their hands with one second left on the 24 second clock has to shoot it.

See how brilliant this is? With a team full of point guards this is guaranteed to work. Quick, what’s the best attribute of most point guards? That’s right, passing! Quicker, what’s the one thing you DO NOT want in your hand? That’s right, a hot potato. Battery Acid, burning embers, even fire, cannot compare to a potato, that is hot.

So if you have a team of point guards imagining that the basketball is actually a hot potato, you would have the greatest offense ever. The ball would be passed around about fifty times causing the defense to become so tired and confused that when there was one second left on the shot clock you’re bound to get an easy layup.

While Kahn wouldn’t delve deeper into his strategy, because again, this man has admitted he has no idea what the hell he is doing, he did fire back at his critics. ‘I’m really tired of all you media types saying how much of an idiot I am. I get that enough from my friends and family, I don’t need that from you all.’ Kahn whined to the Daily Bugle. ‘It’s almost as if you guys think I don’t know that PG on a roster stands for Pretty Good.’

‘I don’t see what’s wrong with having a team of Pretty Good players. We can’t all have superstars. The Miami Heat made sure of that. So what were my options? Surround the team with Sorta Good players?’ Kahn lamented. Good point David.

Kahn also told reporters that he thinks Ricky Rubio, the Spanish point guard whom Kahn drafted last year in the first round and whom elected to stay in Spain instead of playing for the Timberwolves, still has a chance of playing for the team this year.

When questioned by the media how this would be possible, Kahn scoffed, ‘Ever heard of Skype?’ Oh no he didn’t! Which is actually the phrase most uttered by people when talking about David Kahn.

Still, I don’t quite understand why Kahn signed Darko Milicic and some other European player to his roster this summer. And not just because Darko is the biggest bust of our generation or that the European player is destined to be awful. But because neither of those guys is a point guard. Why sign them?

I don’t understand it. And you know what? Neither does David Kahn. That’s the point. Get it?

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Jul 28, 2010 1:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Um, can that be real?

It reads like something out of The Onion.

by calling all toasters on Jul 28, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Uh, no, I just have a brain

If you don’t care about the wolves, don’t come to this thread. No one’s pointing a gun to your head and making you come here. This isn’t your site. kv can post about the wolves if he wants to

by muwu on Jul 28, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks muwu. I’m actually posting about the Nets, as some people figured out, since for a long time I have been advocating that the only way to a C is getting difference maker, HoF possible players, and that given the shrinking window for the Nets Rubio is one of the few chances for one out there.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Jul 28, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

and it makes more sense for our team as far as what we'd have to give up

and how he fits the core. I also think that he would be great for marketing Brooklyn. The Nets would have a young and exciting team.

by gsloots on Jul 28, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would seriously overpay for him. It is a risk, a gamble, but well worth it given the situation.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Jul 28, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have no idea what Kahn wants...

I’m not even sure he would want draft picks anymore. They obviously could use a dynamic shooting guard with penetration skills like TWill as well as a dynamic shot-blocking center, which teams don’t give away. What other teams would be interested? Same as the ones who want Paul? I think we could outmaneuver those teams, especially if we have the highest draft pick out of them, which we probably will.

I figure that Kahn will not trade Rubio unless he knows that there is no way he can sign him. If that is the case the value goes down. If Rubio sits out 2011 because of the lockout his value goes down even further. If Rubio does happen it won’t happen untill next off season at the earliest. Until then lets just watch Favors grow up and root against the Heat and for Durant.

by gsloots on Jul 28, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

When he was drafted, and the Knicks were in hot pursuit, there was quite a bit of talk about how much of a superstar Rubio is in Spain, as a media guy (as has been repeated, girls faint Beetles style). I can’t imagine in a million years that this guy would go to Minnesota of all places. Rather, he has all the leverage. If the Wolves suddenly leap into playoff contention, perhaps, but he is used to playing at the highest level (in Europe) and being a very high profile player. We might not think much of the Euro league, but that is not his experience of it.

Now, the question of course will be how much Brooklyn can be sold, and how good the team can get. Perhaps even this is the reason behind Prok’s declaration that he wants to make the playoffs this year. If he is going to lure Euro talent the team has to at least make the playoffs soon.

In any case, Rubio holds all the cards (Age, money, fame, talent) and Kahn practically none.

"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

by kv on Jul 28, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

and i think the Nets could have a back court of Rubio and devin harris

by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 28, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Prokhorov has to have more credo to Rubio

He has played against the emerging CSK Moscow team.

by gsloots on Jul 28, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

sucks how stubbourn Kahn is

id give up anyone but lopez and Favors to get rubio, but kahn is just a bum

by Benl1 on Jul 28, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's going to come down to a point wherer they have to get rid of him

I’m assuming the Nets would be on his list, but then it will be highest bidder. Right now I would think Knicks, Magic, Portland, and Nets would be in mix, although I wouldn’t count out Dallas.

Assets:

Dallas: Beaubios and not much else
Magic: Gortat, Lewis not much
Knicks: Randolph, Galinari, and Chandler
Portland: Aldridge, Oden
Nets: TWill, picks, Lee and Harris

I would have to assume that the trade will happen in the 2011 or 2012 off season. In that case I think the Nets have a distinct advantage. The other teams on the list will be playoff teams or have no picks (Knicks). The Chris Paul trade will take a team off the list as well.

Then agian, who knows what Kahn wants.

by gsloots on Jul 28, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

good post

you are probably correct about it happening in the off season – certainly Rubio won’t be playing in the NBA this season which is fine as he gets another year of playing in Europe.

But i think there is the chance of Rubio being dealt around next years draft if Kahn finally realises that Rubio isn’t ever going to come to the TWolves then he could try and get another high pick for him as part of a package.

However, i wouldn’t be surprised if Kahn isn’t still in place in Minnesota, some of his decisions have been head scratchers to say the least and when the number 5 pick overall refuses to come and play for you that says it all. Plus Kahn manages to get a TE for Al Jefferson, thats not good management at all.

by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 29, 2010 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking that and then I remembered that McHale was

GM is Minnesota for like four years after he had already destroyed the team. Their owner seems pretty loyal.

by gsloots on Jul 29, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

true but

McHale was a hero in Minnesota – playing college there as well as it being his home state. After his departure and Kahn’s run so far i expect him to be on a much shorter leash.

Unless the TWolves are blown away by a proposal i expect Rubio to be traded around the 2011 draft.

by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 29, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Spanish Backcourt players

Have always been overrated, and Rubio is no exception. At best he profiles as another Jose Calderon, and that’s if his midrange game and shot selection improves. I don’t think he’s going to defend anyone at this level, and I think simply anointing him the next Steve Nash is selling Nash short.

Kahn has stockpiled draft picks and young, projectable guys, and if he’s not as dumb as he seems, he can use Rubio as a chip to acquire a legitimate number 1 player. Maybe that’s what he has in mind? I don’t know. Probably not. He signed Darko and then acquired a superior Kosta Koufos to bury behind him. BTW, to make this relevant, the Nets should be calling KAAAAAAAHHHN!!! about Kosta Koufos like yesterday.

www.twitter.com/robertjamis

by robertjamis on Aug 2, 2010 4:10 PM EDT reply actions  

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