In ESPN's Summer Rookie Watch, a Big Surprise for Nets Fans
by Net Income on Jul 23, 2010 2:22 PM EDT
216 comments
David Thorpe does ESPN's weekly Rookie Watch and he gets an early start on it every off-season. Following the summer leagues, Thorpe feels he has a good grasp at who will make it when he starts ranking rookies for real.
No surprise, he thinks John Wall, taken at #1, was the top rookie in the summer league. Big surprise, he thinks Damion James, taken at #24, was second.
Of James, he writes, "His great energy combined with a solid outside stroke and lots of confidence makes him a scoring machine who just keeps coming at his opponent." Expect rotation minutes, Thorpe writes.
Thorpe also has nice things to say about Derrick Favors who he ranks eleventh: "He showed plenty of upside during summer league, both as an athlete and with his skills (specifically his face-up game). Did he get lost some, lose physical battles and generally zone out during games? Of course. He was the youngest guy on the court almost every time out."
- NBA Rookie Rankings: Summer league wrap - David Thorpe - ESPN Insider
- Texas Longhorns-ex Damion James impresses in summer league - Laken Litman - Dallas Morning News
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You should probably correct the post
It wasn’t a general rookie ranking, it was a summer league ranking. From Thorpe’s own words:
“here’s my take on the top-performing rookies of the summer”
thats exactly what it says.
“David Thorpe does ESPN’s weekly Rookie Watch and he gets an early start on it every off-season. Following the summer leagues, Thorpe feels he has a good grasp at who will make it when he starts ranking rookies for real.”
It's still concerning that's we're seeing Derrick "zone out"
because we saw that in times during his time in GTech and heard some reports of it in HS. As early as his high school scouting reports you here things about how he isn’t involved for every scrum of the ball. In times during GTech games he sets a pick and doesn’t roll to the basket, he just drifts away. I mean, how is zoning out a product of being younger than everyone?
His rebounding is also slightly concerning. He hasn’t really shown a knack of being a really really good rebounder. A decent one, yes. A really good one, no. An observation on him during his HS days was he NEVER boxed out. Because he never needed to since he was bigger and more athletic than anyone. But if that habit has stuck to this day, that’s bad news.
the boot hasn't hit him in the tail yet
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's just turned 19
and if some of the older posters on this board were honest, they would tell their own tales about being confused at age 19. Some might still be confused but 19 would be a good baseline.
Almost 19 here.
I’m confused about life. I can’t even imagine what it must be like for Derrick playing in the NBA at 19.
+1
I’m 19 and I feel the same way. I say give him time. Although I should start if don’t fill that hole.
by Andrew Garcia on Jul 23, 2010 4:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
meant to say:
Confused about life? I’m 50 and I’m still confused.
Apologies if it was taken wrong.
Even King Solomon couldn’t figure it out!
C'mon, Derrick Favors was groomed to NBA since he was 14
You guys are talking like he was just pulled out of some random high school gym into the NBA.
And to say he didn't look good rebounding is untrue
He was always boxing out his man and trying to play sound basketball. Most of his mistakes can be attributed to his experience. In the last game he really used his natural ability to attack the boards. It was the only game that he was in the flow.
I think the people who have played basketball to be honest. You don’t always play your best ball when you are playing with a new group of people. I remember being 15 and going to the YMCA to play pick up games with my dad. They set picks, used their height, they were physical and knew how to throw my game off. It will be interesting to see how he reacts because if it is anything like my experience the “old guys” don’t have any patience if you don’t learn how to play – their way.
I think he can react well to any form of constant instruction
But harsh coaching, being berated, I don’t know. The impression you get when you hear him talk is he’s a kid. He’s gonna do whatever you tell him to do. No matter how hard you push him to work he’ll do it. I don’t know if he’ll do well if Avery drops a zillion f-bombs in his face every time he does something wrong
muwu: his is what I meant, thank you for clarifying
I wasn’t using the best choice of words earlier above. I meant to say Favors (somewhat like Brook) doesn’t seem like the kind of personality that’ll respond well to a challenging, drill-sergeant type of coach. Some folks, if the coach comes at them hard, will bounce back better. But Brook and Favors don’t seem to have that tough personality.
favors seems like a shy kid...but i wouldnt question his toughness.
comes from humble roots and will not take playing in the nba for granted. I see him reacting very good to tough coaching.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
+ 1
Hewitt is a high character coach. Mitchell already got his hands on him. Avery and Mitchell are super tough on players great for a super young team like this
by Hollywoodnet on Jul 23, 2010 7:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Id rather him be himself. Boxing out, and staying ready on offense are concerns, but I dont feel a need to be alarmed. He’s reportedly a gym rat, is working out with Avery Johnson, and his coaching staff up until preseason (prob as I type) and I have no worries or doubts that they will have him ready for the season. I have idea of what your getting at and I dont think hes that type of player or person for that matter
Are you suggesting he has Attention Deficit Disorder, because that would explain it.
Surely someone would have found some evidence if that was the case. And Sam Mitchell would know about it by now, because he is supposed to be working out with Favors, in Atlanta, as we write.
If not true, then some good competition should correct him.
Those games were so ugly that I couldnt really gage anything.
Yeah James looked good, but i think summer league does work to the advantage of wing players and pgs. What was the name of the PG from last years Nets summer league, Jaycee…..
Favors will be good and I think James will be good too.
Did you watch any of the games?
I like his approach around the boards. he will be a monster. Yeah he needs to work on his positioning and boxing out bigger players.
I am not sure what more you were expecting from a rookie
Game 1 – 9 rbs – Game 2 – 3 rbs – Game 3 – 5 rbs – Game 4 – 6 rbs – Game 5 – 11 rbs
But I am ok with the improvement.
These games were so messy that nothing can really be taken from them.
He's a rookie Avery & the staff will straighten him out
He might have a problem staying focused. If he doesn’t get the ball he zones out.
Again, Avery is no guarantee, just because he's strict doesn't mean he's the magical NBA fairy that will make every player's problems disappear
Maybe someone constantly on his back and constantly challenging him will help him, but one thing’s clear, someone has to light a fire inside the guy. Gimme aggressiveness, gimme attitude, gimme emotion. Make him want the ball. That’s the thing right now, I’m not convinced of how much he wants the ball when he’s out there.
and some think that he's doomed to fail
people are being extreme.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong, I think Avery is very talented
I am just concerned about concentrating all the Nets basketball operations in the hands of one (relatively unproven) person. For example, Larry Brown is a HOF coach, but history shows you do not want him to be President, GM and Coach. The best operations in the NBA (Utah & SanAnto) have strong coaches balanced by strong Pres/GMs. Our current Nets is “ALL AVERY ALL THE TIME.” If we had a couple great superstar vets, like say a Kobe or a Jordan, then yes I can rest easy letting Avery run everything. But we have a young team with many players needing specific developmental programs. And many posters here, like Mr$$$Bills, have a “oh, Avery will take care of that” attitude. The fact is, there’s A LOT of work that needs to be done for this ball club, and while Avery is ambitious and talented, it is likely beyond the abilities of 1 man. Avery has a take-charge “I can do it all” personality which is what you want, but such people don’t know when they are over their heads, and don;t know when to ask for help.
unproven?
Avery has the best winning % in NBA history. He turned a Mavericks team that was poor defensively into a team that played defense. He took them to the NBA FInals. He also got the best out of players that aren’t that good.
So yes, I am going to give him the benefit of a doubt before i started screaming that he’s screwing everything up. People are waiting, grinding their teeth and foaming at the mouth to throw him under the bus and it’s JULY.
and as a defacto GM shaping his roster, he’s done quite well to address glaring holes and was smart enough to recognize the need to create space for his two best players. I’ll wait until he and Billy King do something absolutely stupid before I start crying about him.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Please clarify Avery's record and Finals appearance
Avery inherited a very very good Mavs team. Avery coached 3 full seasons.
Year 1: Finals (.732 winning %)
Year 2: 1st Round exit (.871 winning %)
Year 3: 1st Round exit (.622 winning %)
Seems to me like his team got sick of his style and tuned him out.
.660 when Devin was traded
Considering the starting PG was changed midseason (major chemistry adjustment), and they ended .622, I say the problem was before Devin/Kidd trade
that is indeed the word
but this team is VERY different from that team and we will see just how much he has changed with the times, with the personnel.
I am no Avery hater. I just want the best for my team, the Nets,
I hope Avery pulls off a miracle with the Nets and all our dreams are fulfilled. I am just expressing my concerns because a big mistake will set back our rebuilding effort for several years. I am concerned about letting 1 man have absolute control over the team. That is all.
youre forgetting one CRITICAL thing
how well Avery did in Dallas with young players.
Devin Harris, Josh Howard (#28), Marquis Daniels (undrafted), and Desagana Diop (a bust in Cleveland).
Other than Harris, none of those guys have been as good since leaving Avery.
Avery came from the Spurs
I get the impression that he believes in the top-down model. They just need to be on the same page. Right now, it’s Avery’s page. Once the upper management is in place we will see.
Remember Avery wanted Thomas. The Nets didn’t spend more than they thought he was worth. Even if Avery (and me) wanted him.
Perhaps you can answer this, but...
How did D12 play when he first came in the league? I’m going to say he was far more passive than he is now.
Much better results than Favors has had so far
Playing in five games for the Orlando Magic summer league team, Howard averaged 12.0 points, 10.4 rebounds and 3.0 blocks
James could end up being the steal of the draft
I wouldn’t shocked to see this kid take over the starting SF role in two seasons.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
jasperjarrod here....
Why wait 2 seasons for him to start at SF? It’s not like he’s 18 or 19 years old. I think that he should be our opening starter not Travis, Anthony or TWill at the SF position.
"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'"
I understand that people are happy about James but....
it is amazing that he has become “the incarnation”, when the expectations for Favors are out of control. I can’t help but get excited to watch him grow up. I think it’s a good situation for both parties. There is a lot to be excited about in Favors.
So is it safe to say we may have had the best draft by far?
i know to early but it is a possibilty (i guess i have to eliminate safe to say then)
You Know What.....
Since we still cannot attract any super veteran players….I say start Favors ,James and TWILL from Day One…Let them develop….The Nets will still be exciting to watch and we can get another lottery selection next year……Similar to what the Thunder has done…..
Prediction: Both rookies will be starting by the end of the season
Unless there’s some sort of major trade for Paul, Melo, Granger, or the like. I think Outlaw will become our 6th man and the baby Nets will be out in full force.
This makes the contract of Outlaw look bad.. LOL
The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..
just the extra two years
yet, we are almost 15 million under the cap.
If James overtakes outlaw as a starter, you have no idea how huge that becomes for us.
I’ve said before…we never had a chance on Lebron…but this summer could go down as one of the best offseasons in Nets history if we get more than we imagined with James and Favors develops properly.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Well thats the reason why it's so good to be a Nets fan.
The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..
by silenthero07 on Jul 23, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This makes the contract of Outlaw look bad.. LOL The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..
by silenthero07
Dude don’t get me started on that I can’t do that right now. Hopefully I will be wrong and he will be worth twice as much as his contract. LOL
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Well like what I said before, We hope for the best.. LOL
The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..
by silenthero07 on Jul 23, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That contract was always bad.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
NI
Was it more like he meant as well as the 3 or he feels James is best suited to play the 2? Or it wasn’t able to be gatherd from what he said?
Since the face been revealed the game got real
he has said he thinks he can play the 2
compared him to Posey and Horry.
Seems a bit much on both points, but James is VERY athletic. Take a look at the pre-draft measurements.
and Morrow can play the 3.
Nobody talks about that either.
It is bad because of the amount and length of the contract
but I hope that he is healthy and ready to contribute everytime they call his number and not just ride the bench and be our most expensive towel waver…
"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'"
that's what I'm thinking too
I agree that he got overpaid.
But as long as he’ll play as the Nets expect him to or more, it will turn out to be an OK contract.
As reported, the cap space are being hit big time by this contract.
"Beat the Heat!"
yep
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 24, 2010 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Errata: "As reported, the cap space are NOT being hit big time by this contract."
how did I miss that.
"Beat the Heat!"
If DJames was the 2nd best player, then since everyone expected John Wall to do well, DJames would be the BIGGEST SURPRISE of summer league.
And if DJames was the 2nd best rookie, then he should be getting more than “rotation” minutes.
2nd best Rookie should be a candidate for ROY, which means he should be getting around 30 minutes per game during most of the year.
The way I think we need to be conservative with Favors, I don’t get that as much for James. If you told me the second half of the season James was logging major minutes or even starting, I would not be real suprised.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
He was a Senior. It shouldn't be surprising.
It was probably because he was a Senior that he dropped. Although he is a different kind of player, he might be almost as valuable as the #4 pick, Wesley Johnson.
It was very evident by the end on the orlando summer league that Nets have something special in James and Favors. Remember, James was touted as the most NBA ready player in this year’s class by many experts and draft mavens. It will be interesting to see how Avery will use him going into the season.
i don’t know why folks are so down on Favors. He’s project, we all know this. Game by game he got it together, and by the end of summer league he showed us why he was the #3 pick. He’s 19 for crying out loud and his mind let alone his body haven’t even finish developing yet. There are going to mental lapses and childish mistakes, but i don’t think that nets would have drafted him if the didn’t think they could handle it.
19yr old Amare played like his life depended on it every time he stepped on the court
Derrick Favors doesn’t show that fire. There are things you can’t teach…
Favors isn't Amare
we have to stop comparing to other players for right now. If his time at GT and summer league showed us. He’s a slow starter, but once he gets it. He’s a beast. We just have to be patient
so he's bust, right?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say so.
Those 4 summer league games where he didn’t play with fire have left me with that impression. That and Luke Harangody / Derek Caracter are the second coming of Karl Malone and Shaq, respectively.
Summer league is serious business.
more serious than the internet?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
-1
SMH “Those 4 summer league games where he didn’t play with fire have left me with that impression” WOW
and Tim Duncan looks like someone who can't break an egg
I really think Favors is coachable. Regardless how harsh the coaching is. He’ll respond well. How good? That’s the question. That’ll be for all of us to see/witness.
Shy people, as some people here sees Favors, usually reacts better when pushed.
Those with “attitude” or those with big heads, are the ones who don’t react well to harsh coaching. Because they think they don’t deserve it.
Derrick from the get go, acknowledged he needs work. That’s good attitude. I think he’ll develop a good professional work ethic.
I’m excited to see how high his ceiling will be.
"Beat the Heat!"
No one should be down on Favors.
You’re right he’s a project. He’ll need time to develop. The people who are disappointed are the ones putting him next to Brook already.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
Well the other 19 year olds...
The concerns I raise right now is there are things we’re seeing that are not a product of being raw. Rebounding. How are you a raw rebounder? Two steps: box out and jump. Of course there are more things to it than that but in the most basic sense you can get by with just that.
We’ve seen good flashes from him, he knows how to play help defense and knows how to defend the pick and roll, he’ll be able to contribute to team defense from day 1. He knows how to get good position in the post, he can pin his man behind him really well. He’s got some moves there, he just has to gain more experience in using them.
One thing I want him to be more aggressive in is pick and rolls. He doesn’t roll to the basket a whole lot. Most of his scores in Orlando were of the post or on hand offs, not a lot of pick and roll action going on with him.
He still needs to gain muscle though and have a physical mindset to bang with guys down low. You only hope he hits the weight room like Dwight. Dwight was thrown around when he first came in too, but that was what motivated him to never let that happen again. Does Favors have that same aggressiveness? I mean when you hear about how Cousins is so physical in his play, you want Favors to have that mindset too.
After
only 5 summer league games I’m not ready to label him. I’m really not sure what I saw because it was so limited. But the last game where Avery told him just go out and play like you played in high school seemed to make a difference. I think he’ll be OK. I saw him go up and get some man sized rebounds. Once he puts on some weight and learns where he fits on the team he’ll do what’s needed. I’m very optimistic about him. And really like the fact that he can use both hands. Plus I trust Avery’s judgement because he played with some of the best big men in NBA history.
The Nets have done well
James – Possible steal of the draft
Morrow – Steal of Free Agency
I also believe that Favors will surprise a lot of people and be a beast earlier than expected.
Well a lot of NetsDaily faithful don’t like Zoubek, but I agree I like him as a project.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
He can rebound and he's a big body
sounds like a 3rd string center to me, and we need that as well.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Means he will score a basket for every 48 minutes he plays but will excite the basketball purists with his defensive positioning and incredible screen setting abilities.
don't forget
also boxing out and clearing space for others. Jason Kidd can probably credit a good bit of those double digit rebounding nights to some of the work Collins was doing in the paint.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Somehow Kidd has been able to rebound since college without having to play with Collins.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 23, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure that Zoubek is the "steal of the undraft"
He seems like a good pickup, can play against bigger centers and give you defense and fouls – some offensive rebounds.
Morrow and James are shrewd additions, yet SOME people are giving the Nets bad grades. It’s Outlaw and Favors. I already states that people just don’t get Favors. Not sure he’ll reach his ceiling, but he’s the type of player you root for and Outlaw is still young and had the ability to improve. It’s not like they emptied the bank account for him.
Honestly, I generally root for players that try hard in games.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 24, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
good choice
if he is willing to deliver the hard foul, even better.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
players who do one thing well in college
can often work out well in the pros.
take a look at Morrow’s three point shooting at Georgia Tech. He shot 42% over four years yet didnt get drafted.
Zoubek was the best offensive rebounder in the NCAA last year, based on per minute stats.
Jordan Farmer....
Best kept secret….Most Improved….
I was a big Cousins fan...
But there is no doubt IMO that Favors was the right choice at #3…
Favors will do fine…i see him becoming a 9ppg 7 rpb player his first yr…
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
watched a Kings summer game (against Mavs I think)
it’s only the 3rd quarter, and it seems like Cousins ran the marathon. So exhausted already. And I think he only scored 6 on that game.
He looks like ready to quit, savoring every dead ball situation.
Not liking his attitude as well, as if he’s a superstar and don’t need the summer league.
Good luck to the Kings.
"Beat the Heat!"
He could not even get major minutes in college,
The vigor and better competition in the pros will be very difficult for him especially when they play back to backs or 3 games in 5 days. At this point his stamina is definitely questionable as well as his foul rate.
Well we all thought it but now they have said it. Any deal for CP3 WILL include Okafor- skocking
Since the face been revealed the game got real
hahahha
good luck with all of that
Stay the course
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I don’t want him but I just heard that reported.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
The Knicks should pull the trigger
Because i can’t see Okafor fitting into _’Antoni’s scheme.
52 million dollars to rot on the bench. That would be awesome.
I fail to see how they can trade for Paul, Okafor, with Amare on the roster and still have enough for Anthony next season. Anthony would be the biggest fool on earth not to sign that extension.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
They would not be able to get Melo then so its either or
I want them to get Paul
Since the face been revealed the game got real
That is right. No way Knicks take Okafor since no chance for Melo to. It would destroy their cap space.
And if Knicks don’t get Paul, I highly doubt if Melo would go to Knicks. He would just take is 22 million per year with Denver.
NO...
…kudos to them. Kudos!!!!
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
check realGM they have a link to the story
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Just on ESPN radio they just confirmed N.O. said Okafor will be in any CP3 deal, thats sentence was all and excatly what they said.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Good for NO
Paul is probably ticked off because that automatically takes several teams out of the running. That’s what you get for listening to Maverick Carter and acting like a classless buffoon, idiot
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Didn’t he just say he wants a trade or did he run his mouth and talk trash??
Since the face been revealed the game got real
he ran his mouth at carmelo's wedding, which is basically spitting in NO's faces
and then demanded a trade
These LRMR guys are masters of PR.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
3 max deals plus Okar for making 11, 12, 13.5, and 14
how?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2bepvvx
Ha, could you imagine…
That trade wouldn’t be allowed you can’t trade the Golden State players that the Knicks got in one trade like that
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Felton can't be traded until December.
By December, lots of things can change.
CP3 could realize that Knicks suck.
Why would Denver make that trade? Don't you think Denver could get one or 2 Stars + nice pics for Melo?
Nets might give Favors, DJames, TWill and 1st round pick if Melo was willing to re-sign with Nets (which would always be a risk).
Melo is more valuable than CP3, unless CP3 proves to be able to play like his old self. CP3 is damaged goods.
That is a ton to give up for Carmelo Anthony. And i know he’s good.
"We aim above the mark to hit the mark." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"We're looking at hiring the Red Army choir to perform at half-time along with Russia's top dancing bear collective." -Mikhail Prokhorov
"Don't worry about my cap" - Lou Lamoriello
I didn't say I would do it.
But Thorn and some of the beat writers might suggest giving up a lot for Anthony.
I wouldn’t even trade for Melo, without some guarantee he would re-sign.
However, some other team might do it and could offer much more that the Knicks.
A contender needing a center might wanna get in on Okafor
He’s still a double double guy and great shotblocker after all
how about this for a trade between 4 teams
NJ gets- Chris Paul, Caron Butler, Paul george, and Josh McRoberts
Dallas gets- Okafur
NOH gets- TWill, Kris Humphries, and TJ ford (all expiring except TWill)
Pacers get- Devin Harris
Okafor is better suited as a Blue Collar PF
He would be actually great next to Brook. But that contract? Yikes
The NETS are coming!
eh...like i sated below
if the nets can somehow sell harris, twill and hump for paul and okafor i think it’ll be worth it…okafor isn’t worth $52mil but he is worth $40mil and he’s only 28
if we don't give up Favors?
my ear might be open. Also depends on the Nets giving Paul a serious physical on that knee
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
nevermind
we wouldn’t be able to get Carmelo though
That Okafor contract is the killer.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
any deal invlving Okafor
is simply not worth it, esp when you take into acount that Paul doesn’t have the Nets on his list and the serious concerns about his health. Pass pass PASS
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28urota
terrible trade for the Hornets…but its nice to dream sometimes
actually..this is not that bad..since the Nets would be eating an unwanted contract
I say Favors, James, and Lopez are the only untouchables for the Nets
just having fun here but
Paul
Lee
James
Okafor
Lopez
not bad for the time being
Chances
What are the chances of cp3 joining the Nets in the first place .
i want paul and anthony
with Favors and Lopez…that’d be a contender
Is it possible...
That the reason most of you are so impatient with or skeptical of Favors is how much we were told of Yi and SWat?? Fresh out of the draft, both these guys were compared to guys like Dirk, Amare, etc, and now you don’t believe anything that is said with regards to potential? Have patience and stop being so overly critical… He DOES have a solid work ethic and wants to play. Going pro at 19 isn’t gonna be easy on everybody. PATIENCE! At least wait for the start of the regular season before using the word bust.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Jul 23, 2010 4:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
the Nets
didnt hype Yi as much as they hyped Sean Williams (Kmart), Antoine Wright (Allan Houston), Christian Drejer (first round talent), etc., etc.
They toned it down in the 2008 and 2009 drafts, but Avery has reversed that trend, comparing Favors to Stoudemire, Bosh and GARNETT!, comparing James to Posey, Bowen and HORRY!
Outlaw could be Josh Howard (I’ll go along with that).
It’s interesting by the way that the Nets have THREE assistant coaches who played power forward in the NBA, Mitchell, Jones and Krystkowiak.
I like Favors too and he could be the best pick this year
because he can go with both hands…here’s a nice pre draft work out vid.
Nice video
thanks for the heads up. I really like this kid.
Favors is cool with me
Hard working kid
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
IMO If they use Favors the correct way then he will become stud
Howard was playing 32 mins his rookie Season and averaged 12 and 10 why not do the same with Favors and this is whats going to make me mad the nets are not going to start him and play him only 15-20 mins, the thing is how can you show your gm off in little mins
also you got to have the ball in your hands and just look at the last game twill didnt play and favors had the ball in his hands and played amazing
Favors-Mins+Having the Ball=Success
i understand we need patience and im willing to have patience with favors
im not expecting 20 10 right away im hoping for Howard numbers if not that close to it like 12 and 8 or 11 and 8 or 12 and 9 something like that
i just want the nets to use him the right way and start him right Away, i know most of you disagree that he shouldnt start but i believe he should start and let him learn from his mistakes get his feet wet by playing guys like gasol, odom, jamison,bosh,stoudemire, etc etc
Now if the nets dont start him i got one guy in mind to trade for and i know hes got alot of money in his contract but whocares its not like favors is going to start and this guy can help Lopez alot IMO and can help Favors
Nets get:Okafor
Hornets get Humps
Harris/Lee/Outlaw/Okafor/Lopez
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
by Wall2KingJames on Jul 23, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Dont know if anyone wants to read into this but....
Wall Summer league stats were
24/8/2..18/10/1…21/10/7…31/3/6
now the key to these stats no including rebounds and assists is
7for15..5for12..4for19..10for23
now look at Favors stats
8…12….4….6….23
Key stat is
2for8…5for8…2for5…2for7…10for17
now my point is how is the kid suppose to show his gm and improve his gm if he is shooting 8 5 and 7 shots a gm he took 17 shots a gm and scored 23 points does anyone believe that doesnt mean anything because i think it means alot
and like in the post above this is were having the ball in his hands and using favors the correct way
i guarantee if the nets dont play favors and he plays 15 mins a gm he going to average 6 points and 4 boards and everyone here is going to say hes a bust
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
by Wall2KingJames on Jul 23, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
As much as people say Derrick has the exact same measurements as Dwight
And Dwight was raw-ish too coming in, but he was able to demonstrate his rebounding and shotblocking abilities right away in his summer league grabbing 10 boards and swatting 3 shots a game in the same 5 games playing 30 mins a game.
One the other hand Derrick played 28 minutes a game but only grabbed 6.8 rebs a game and blocked only 0.6 shots a game.
That’s what I’m saying, why hasn’t his rebounding been translating so far?
It's 5 summer league games coached by Popeye Jones!
Relax and give it some time. Not everybody grows at the same speed on the same curve. Some guys struggle awhile and then grow really fast once the light bulb goes off. Others come out strong and then hit a wall before they go further. You can’t use 5 summer league games as the measuring stick.
His rebounding didn't really translate in college as well, he wasn't grabbing double digit boards or anything
But Lawal might be a factor, he’s not a bad 2nd round pick, but still I would’ve wanted him to be able to beat him out
And to Me Derrick is ALREADY more fluent on offense than Dwight is now
Dwight still has no jumper can’t really handle and just learning to pass. Dwight is better at rebounding and shot blocking but Favors will be better offensively.
The NETS are coming!
I think Derrick's offense is more advanced
than Dwight at this age. There are a lot of other things to like about Derrick. But it’s going to take a little bit longer than 5 summer league games to get it out.
This kid is gonna be a BEAST!!
THIS
I’ve said the same thing. He definitely isn’t as raw as advertised offensively.
He could become a far superior player on offense to Howard in time. We already can see that he can face up. Howard’s offensive game is atrocious for someone of his stature.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Howard dominates the game and his “unskilled”. I don’t care how “skilled” Cousins is, you can’t make up for natural athletic ability. Especially in the NBA game. I don’t know if Favors is as athletic as Howard, but he is going to be more skilled AND he seems to have a great attitude and quiet confidence.
Can you say that about Cousins?
Chris Wilcox, Stromile Swift and 100s of others had “natural athletic ability”.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 24, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Derrick Favors is NOT Dwight Howard
relax bro. Everyone develops at their own pace.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but rebounding
The thing that everyone keeps saying is that rebounding translates. Well his hasn’t so far. Unless he’s just not as good a rebounder as we think. May be closer to Amare than we think
can we wait and see what happens with his development first?
He’s also going to be well coached and there are going to be some things drilled into his head over the course of this season and then next offseason he will be worked to death by the Nets staff.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Well part of rebounding is instinctive
Like how JKidd knew exactly where the ball was gonna go after it hit the rim, some things you just can’t teach
Power rebounders have both motor and instinct for the ball. Its not something that learned, and certainly not learned at the NBA level. He may be a good rebounder, but probably won’t be a “Monster”, as some hope to see him.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 23, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree with this
some people just have a nose to snag the ball
Effort, and work on boxing out fundamentals/positioning, can go a long way for a player who may not have those instincts.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure. But those instinctive guys box out too, they don’t just run and jump after the ball. And boxing out requires focus and desire, the same kind of thing that natural rebounders have.
I’ve never seen a guy being taught to box out and become a very good rebounder int he pros.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 23, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
If you are saying that there is a reason for concern, of course there is. Unless being a fan requires that you have an inborn faith that all of your players will maximize their potential if you merely give them enough time. Just what kind of player Favors is going to be, we don’t know, but we have gotten glimpses, from HS, from college, and now SL, what kind of player he won’t likely be.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 23, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just right now (and I've had this thought for a while now) thinking that he's not gonna be much of a rebounder if he keeps status quo
The expectation for him was to be a contributor on defense and on the boards, and the defense part is easy to see, the rebounding part is not
He can easily be a contributor, but he just doesn’t have that “beast” rebounder make up, which is unfortunate, given his physical gifts.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 23, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He may end up being more like Amare when it comes to rebounding
although I think he will be better defensively. Amare sometimes doesnt even care on the defensive end. Dont think this kid will be like that.
Offensively, once he puts on another 15-20 lbs he may be much better than we thought. He can use either hand in the post, got a good jump hook and has great hands in the post. We may be surprised on that front.
Its between the ears that matters when greatness is at stake.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 23, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That is true
Remains to be seen with this kid. But we know he works, he put on 20 lbs as a freshman, working out after games to bulk up, so we know he works hard, which is a positive trait.
The Knicks Just Paid 100 million for Amare
With 2 bad knees and a bad eye. Doesn’t seem like “Monster Rebounder” is a pre-requisite for being a top 5 power Forward.
It be Crazy if he actually has another growth Spurt and ends up at 7ft and 260. With his Natural Athletisism he and Brook together Would be a NIGHTMARE for the opposition. He seems to really love working out. That will bode very well for him.
The NETS are coming!
Unfortunate indeed (hopefully we're wrong)
I mean, if everything breaks right for him he could easily be a 13 rebound a game guy ideally
There arent many 13 rpg guys in the NBA
I think hes more in the 9-11 depending on mins, growth
He is going to be a beast on the boards.
Of course he’s not aggressive yet. He’s learning the offense, the speed of the game, and the physicality. If you watch game six, which KV didn’t, you would see an aggressive rebounding mentality. Cousins just used his length to board and there are more tall people in the NBA game.
If you watch his college career he wasn’t aggressive, nor a “beast” “monster” “hellcat” “demon” “megatron” or any other superlative, on the boards.
He is Ferdinand the Bull on the boards.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 24, 2010 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Unrelated, but just so bizarre
And he is an ex-net after all
Apparently Marbury turned down a chance to join the Miami cHeat, saying
“They (the Heat) wanted a point guard. But I don’t think a point guard would do much in the team as they’ve already had the Three Guys (Dwyane Wade, LeBron James and Chris Bosh).”
aka he’d rather post up big numbers in China than not be the main man and possibly win an nba championship. Crazy
Is he still eating Vaseline on video?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 23, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Another example
Of talent gone in the toilet. Kid had game but nothing between the ears. What a waste of talent
what a waste of life
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
what an idiot
some guys never get it.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 23, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i saw him a few weeks back
Looked like he finally lost the cookyness. Was very well spoken believe it or not. Guess he’s still eating the vaseline..
by Andrew Garcia on Jul 23, 2010 6:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What a tool.
99 percent chance of a championship barring injury and he turned it down? Damn.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2d53jkk + Picks
Net fans be patient by September 1 we will have these two all stars.
Lopez/Petro
West/Favors
Outlaw/James
Harris/Morrow
Paul/Farmar
This trade failed
And so did your post
by eLonepb on Jul 23, 2010 6:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just Wondering...
Even though I AM all for operation youth movement…..
Do you think a Lineup of…
Paul/Farmar
Morrow/FA
Melo/James
Okafor/KMART
Lopez/Petro
Can Seriously Contend for a title? Would it Satisfy CP3/MELO
And i’m understanding that it would cost us Harris, CLee, Hump 2 Picks for CP3/OKYdoke
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2apgdvh
And Midseason Outlaw/Twill/Favors and 2 Picks for Melo/Kmart
These could work IMO.
We would be capped out… But we would contend
The NETS are coming!
I don’t think NO would even want Harris , they’d probably take Favors though.
by strange-brew on Jul 23, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just watching the 2002 NBA Draft again
I was going through my old VHS tapes to determine if I should trash them — found a recording of the 02 draft. Amare was drafted 9th by Phoenix out of h.s. Favors was ranked #1 out of h.s. and was drafted third.
Keep in mind the 02 draft had the following future hall of famers drafted in front of Amare which prevented him from being drafted third like Favors: Tskitishvilli (sp?), Chris Wilcox, Drew Gooden, Nene Hilario.
Errr, ok, they weren’t hall of famers. I guess Amare wasn’t projected to be so good out of h.s. Seems to me Favors should be better than Amare by that logic given his projection.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Stat was an interesting case out of HS
He didn’t have the grades to get any D1 scholarships, and his family situation forced him to transfer multiple high schools. Phoenix took a huge risk on him and it really paid off. Stat was a one dimensional player his rookie season, but he has always been an eager student. Plus, he plays really really hard.
Or he is a Chris Wilcox, another guy who everyone fell in love with his athleticism, or even Nene, another one.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 23, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
switch out Dahntay Jones' contract with Paul George
just couldnt do it since he hasnt been signed for 30 day
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