Among The LeBron Also-Rans, Nets Rank Fourth
by Net Income on Jul 21, 2010 7:04 AM EDT
in 2010 Free Agency
463 comments
Yahoo's Kelly Dwyer ranks the six teams that sat down with LeBron James based on how much they improved since "The Decision" and put the Nets fourth among the LBJ "bridesmaids".
He doesn't rank the Cavaliers for obvious reasons and there's no need to rank the Heat ...really.
After giving up "Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Yi Jianlian, the entire 2009-10 season", Dwyer writes "the Nets will still boast a solid, young team — what with Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors, and Devin Harris on board — but they more or less whiffed in adding anyone with star potential...wasn't exactly what New Jersey's front office had in mind."
Dwyer ranks the Knicks, not the Bulls, first, arguing that New York's improvement will be greater than Chicago's.
- Ranking LeBron's bridesmaids - Kelly Dwyer - Ball Don't Lie
- Summer Shakeup - Joe Gabriele - Cleveland Cavaliers
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Reasonable enough
But of course, the Knicks improvement will be greater than the Bulls because last year the Knicks only won 29 games while the Bulls won 41. Stands to reason that they should have an easier time adding more wins to that than the Bulls.
Most Room to Grow
Just building on Mu’s comment, the Nets could have most easily improved because we were the worst team in the league last year. We haven’t improved much, and in terms of the “go for broke” teams, we will almost certainly have the worst record this season. The Clippers, for instance, should have at least 10 more wins than us this season despite ranking lower than us in this article, and the Knicks are going to be better than us too, though perhaps also in the lottery.
We are still on track for contention, but it will require a lot more patience than if we had scored two of the Heatles. It is not negative but merely realistic to say that we’re not going to be a playoff team this year as it stands now. While disappointing, it could have been worse. We could have maxxed out someone like Amare or Joe Johnson tied our future to a boat anchor contract. We’ll be better and more fun to watch than last year’s train wreck, but 30 wins would be an achievement.
Knicks will have more new faces
to integrate. Other than Gallinari, Walker, Douglas and Chandler, the rest of the team will be new.
I don't see why 25 wins shouldn't be reasonable floor for our win total next year
The Nets and Minnesota were the only 2 teams last year to win less than 25 games, I think we can be just as good this year as Sacramento last year at least, who won only 25 games.
And I don’t see why that’s so bad. If this was just another summer, no “the decision”, nobody would be expecting us to suddenly become a playoff team all of the sudden.
Fact is, losing out on LeBron and co. didn’t hurt anyone’s chances of contending. It hurt their
immediatechance of contending, but it’s not as if everyone won’t be able to get better anymore
I agree
I’m perfectly ok with us being a lottery team again, just as long as we see signs of future success and gradual improvement throughout the season ala OKC in 2008-2009. Besides, I think we could use another lottery player, and in all honesty, the Nets’s front office probably wants us to be a contender in 2012-2013 heading into Brooklyn. Any success in Newark will be icing on the cake, because they do want to build up more fans to cover their financial losses — but let’s be real, these next two seasons are stepping stones to bigger things, both on the court and in the minds of the Nets’s brass.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
The way to build up fan base is to make playoffs, ASAP, plain and simple.
Only some bloggers want to go through another losing season and hear talk of trading one of the top most athletic players in the NBA – TWill.
Chicago barely made playoffs last year (were beaten by Nets 2x) and were awful at times. However, all anyone remembers is a solid team that did well in first round of playoffs. They were competitive in free agency BECAUSE they made the playoffs.
Avery is trying to lower expectations, in case he can't get the player(s) he really wants.
OF COURSE AVERY WANTS TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. HE WANTS TO WIN EVERY GAME. PEOPLE ARE KIDDING THEMSELVES IF THEY WANT TO BELIEVE OTHERWISE.
AND PROKY DOESN’T WANT HIS WORD TO BE WORTHLESS. OF COURSE PROKY WANTS TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.
this^
Tanking on purpose just to get a top 3 pick that may not bare any fruit and trading one of the more intriguing 2nd year players in the league that can fill up the stat sheet for garbage is a recipe for disaster.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Hello, and thank you for reading my post
but I don’t want us to “tank on purpose” or “want to go through anther losing season” — I’m evaluating our roster and realizing that this is not a playoff team — and I’m saying I’m ok with that, unlike some fans that will be bugging out if we start the season 2-5 “OMG, the sky is falling!!!”
As for trading TWill for garbage, I don’t want to do that either. I want to steal somebody else’s good player(s).
@jerry – I’m not “some blogger.”
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
I don't think we are a playoff team
nor do I want to make the playoffs. But a 30+ win season is not unrealistic.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It not a disaster
It’s a low risk/high reward situation. Whats the alternative? Sign some overpriced FA who’s going to sink us for years. Getting rid of CDR was tough but right now James looks good and will need some of CDR’s minutes. Last year was a tank job but this year it’s just growing pains.
-1
We haven’t improved much, and in terms of the "go for broke" teams, we will almost certainly have the worst record this season
I don’t agree there. The Knicks aren’t better. Amare and David Lee had identical numbers. Amar’e is leaving Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson. I can assure you his numberrs will dip. Expect 20 and 8 from STAT. That won’t make the Knicks much better. Someone will need to defend.
The NETS are coming!
People get turned on by "sexy" names
leave them be
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
This whole Steve Nash thing is bogus. “The Knicks are the Suns without Amare.” Well, the Knicks last year are the Suns without Amare and Nash, they are going up.
You underrate the impact that Steve Nash has on the offensive side of the floor
Nash creates havoc off of the dribble and he’s a dead eye shooter. Raymond Felton is not.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah only on this site Can Someone Downplay a 2 time League MVP...lol
Raymond Felton is not in the same class as Nash… People won’t run to play with Felton. They will run to play with Nash
The NETS are coming!
I never said he was as good as Nash… I just don’t think that Amare is 3rd string level talent which is clearly what most everyone here thinks.
no one thinks that
We all know that Amare is an explosive offensive force that can hit the mid range J
it’s everything else that leaves a lot to be desired.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
As I Said in the Knicks Current System...
David Lee put up 20 and 11. You traded him for 23 and 9 (Amare). Not a MAJOR upgrade. Al Harrington averaged 19 ppg for the last 2 seasons and half of that coming off the bench. Where do those points come from now? Al could score in or out (would have been nice if we picked him up He signed for 26 for 5 with Denver) Would have been a no brainer at the 4 till Favors was ready.
Amar’e is the booby prize espeacially if Melo or CP3 don’t come and Amare will have to average 25+ and 12 to make it even tempting.
The NETS are coming!
we should have signed Smith
but I still don’t know the terms of his deal with the Clippers, so the price may have been too high
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm...no excuse for not signing him then
we could have filled the stop gap role and still been in double digits under the cap. Maybe they are looking at someone else
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
A dantoni team doesn’t need to rebound first of all… second, just because Lee put up better stats doesnt mean anything. By that logic your saying that if Lee went to the Suns with Nash he would put up Godly numbers.
um.... Yes he would...
Lee and Amare have very Similar skill sets and you we all will see that this season. Lee’s a much better rebounder tho.
The NETS are coming!
But style points are not rewarded in Nba games...lol
Just the actual score which is a cumalative of……….. NUMBERS
The NETS are coming!
you may be right
that a d’antoni team doesn’t need to rebound. maybe that’s why a d’antoni team has no rings. it’s the same sport as it ever was- still need to play D and rebound to take the marbles
imagine something extremely witty here
by Gminski on Jul 21, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this
Lets be serious for a second.
Any NBA team that wants to WIN will have to rebound and defend.
Good luck to NY.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
???
All the Knicks did was trade David Lee and Al harrington for Amare and Anthony Rudolph. Still remains to see how Amare will play without Steve Nash. Chicago pretty much added The Utah Jazz…lol. (Boozer, Brewer and Korver) They would be first.
But I would rank the Nets second. We made smart low risk pick ups and maintain our flexabilty.
SMART money usually beats LONG money
The NETS are coming!
Smart money wins every time
Better to improve from within instead of wasting money on guys that aren’t going to do anything but cripple our ability to make moves.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly...
Its going to be a fun Season. And I count on us to be a “surprise Team”
The NETS are coming!
"Surprise" "The Upstart Nets" "Team on the rise"
These will be words uttered across the media spectrum about us this season.
There is no reason to be negative about this offseason, the current shape of the roster(aside from the fact that we haven’t found a PF yet to start until Favors is ready), or the direction that we are headed in.
I haven’t been this positive about the Nets since we first landed Jason Kidd.
We have no pressure to win now. Just develop talent and exhibit some patience. Everyone thinks we’re doomed because we have a coach on board with the best win % in NBA history, and Billy King as President. Have some patience folks.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
While others are trying to land Big contracts, Philly just signed Tony Battie
making him the second Nets FA on last season’s roster to be signed.
http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=6275
And so said the old man!
I was listening to the FAN yesterday
Francesca was talking about this, he was saying how LeBron told insiders how impressive Riley was in the presentation. He laid all his rings on the table, 21 of them as he as three rings for each championship. He said that LeBron never wanted to be Jordan, he wanted to be Magic, his goal is to average a triple double and Riley was the only one who pitched to LeBron the idea of making him the next Magic.
As time goes by I really can’t fault LeBron for the decision. When he was in high school people compared him to Magic, I’m not sure when the whole Jordan things started. I don’t know why he chose to take 23, but I only fault him for how he handled the situation. I’m still rooting against the Heat, but in many ways he’s getting a bad rap.
He's gotten such bad advice from the people around him
And yeah, him leaving wasn’t the bad part, it was him airing it on a one hour special on tv that was absurd. Every “the decision” parody that’s made is well deserved.
The only people who compare LeBron to Jordan on the court are those who don't understand basketball.
He’s always been closer to Magic than Jordan, just as Kobe has been the opposite. I guess it’s the “global branding” of LeBron and his dreams of building a global empire ala Mike that throw people off. Then again, I see people compare LeBron to Jordan all the time as far as on the court issues go, and it’s just absurd. They’re not the dumb-dumb media for nothing, and a lot of fans on the Internet never saw Jordan play for the Bulls due to their age, because that was over a decade ago and NBA fans tend to skew young, so it would make sense.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
speaking of which...
i was just thinking the other day about how this miami trio is going to change the landscape of fantasy basketball…lebron may not automatically be 1st pick any more…
by lennythegreat1 on Jul 21, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah i agree with you Tom
Jordan and Lebron play two totally different styles, which is why I think that Miami will work on the court because James will dish the rock
Off of the court, that remains to be seen.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
They compare them because they are both the best players in the league. I haven’t heard anyone compare their actual in game attributes. I don’t recall anyone ever saying “boy he can pass like Jordan,” and so on.
Bryant is on the decline but I still consider him #1, not by much. Maybe 1a, 1b, you know?
To me, he is more skilled than James overall. James is a better rebounder, passer, and shot blocker though.
IMO, Bryant’s competitive fire makes him closer to Jordan, if you want to compare.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
They are both great players, two of the best 3 players in the world.
End of discussion
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
James is more skilled
Bryant is more nuanced and subtle and has learned how to win games and is much better at the mental game.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Bryant IMO is a better ball handler, shooter, and scorer.
James’ main offensive weapon is being able to bully his way to the basket. Bryant is way more craftier than that.
If you want to say on an overall scale, sure I’ll give Lebron the nod since he is a solid rebounder/passer, better than Bryant, and has become an ungodly shotblocker.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Lebron does bully on the court. It can be a good thing, but it also can be a bad thing.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s not really Magic either. Magic understood pace at a very deep level. He was surprisingly strong (which was why his team called him “Buck”), but he used his strength at singular moments, to change the flow of a play. James is closer to Magic than Jordan, but he really has none of the feel for the game that made Magic magic, nor the brilliant way that Magic made easy baskets for everyone. To play James as a point, or even a point forward is a waste.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
bottom line is
neither jordan, magic, bird, (and probably isiah, tim duncan, kobe etc) would have joined forces with an equal to create a super team. they wanted to beat the other, not join them. this doesn’t make lebron a bad dood, he just not as competitive as these guys. he may be as good but he’s definitely not as competitive. that’s means a lot
imagine something extremely witty here
is that backpack loaded with weights?
if not, then why is farmar taking free-throw practice (i’d imagine) in a back pack and tee-shirt. this kid is too hollywood. although he’ll probably fit in fine in brooklyn
Knicks defense, or lack thereof
Can you imagine a defensive back-line of Stoudemire, Randolph, and Gallo? LMAO. Soft as a pillow. Couple that with D’Antonio’s already apathetic regard for defense, and watch out. Just get past the perimeter D, and it’s layup city.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Keeping a young, talented core is the key
With the team Miami has put together, they aren’t likely to lose for the next few years. I’d much rather keep building a talented young core than to overspend for an injury ridden player like Stoudemire.
The Nets did not overpay, and thus, did not cripple their future.
We are one “great” player away from being a serious contender. But considering what Miami has, would we beat them if we suddenly added Carmelo Anthony?
Not sure.
I don't know how anyone outside of LA can beat them
Unless you can pair Dwight Howard with a superstar, Dwight’s really the only guy who can create a problem for them in the East. Or unless they beat themselves and the chemistry isn’t there, which is pretty much a longshot
Other Teams have a Shot...
Orlando will have to play Rashard at the 3 and Bass at the 4. Hope Vince can score with Wade. Dwight needs to stay out of foul trouble. And Jameer is better than Miami’s PG’s.
If Boston Comes Back Healthy and Capable the can match well. Boston is the original big 3 and have experience. I think Pierce offset Lebron and Ray will keep Wade Honest. KG will nullify Bosh. And Rondo will be the X Factor. Jermaine Oneal will hit open jumpers and provide more length. Loosing Tony Allen will hurt though.
Chicago is young and Talented. But Rose is going to have to guard Wade and Deng Will have to Step up big Time. And maybe depending on how Memphis goes. Maybe Chicago Makes a Tradeline deal for Mayo. Boozer will battle Bosh
And not coincidentally Matt Barnes could help all of these Teams…
The NETS are coming!
In The West..
The Lakers….. Self explanatory…lol.
The Thunder KD and Westbrook have arrived and will only get better. Harden can defend and is a tough competitor who is Versatile. They merely need frontcourt production. Serge Ibhaka may need to start at PF. He can be a double double guy. He could be a star if his offense continue to progress. He is only 20. Criag Brackens and Magnum Rolle May prove to be Draft Steals if they can defend and rebound. And Magnum Did that well in SL.
Nuggets. Will be able to score with anyone. With Melo and possibly Al Harrington starting at the 4 till K-Mart heals. I see a lot of Chauncey at the 2 and Speedy Ty Lawson at the 1.
Portland is young athletic and stacked. Brandon Roy is a Star already. Aldridge is solid at worst. Is this the year Oden plays a full season? If not Aldridge/Camby combo doesn’t get much better. They went Nevada in the draft and I love Babbit and Johnson. Still waiting for Bayless to be THAT dude as well.
The NETS are coming!
Well thing is with all those
The Lakers have Pau or Bynum who can guard Bosh. Artest for LeBron. And Kobe for Wade.
On the Nuggets, who guards LeBron or Wade? Likewise in Portland, who guards LeBron AND Wade, in chicago too? Batum might be able to do a semi-decent job on one, but not both.
Orlando really only has a shot because the cHeat don’t have anyone to guard Dwight 1 on 1.
Boston is really really old, they really only have 1 or 2 good years left. KG can guard Bosh, but you can’t expect Pierce and Allen to hold down the fort for long on LeBron and Wade.
depends on how how good Boston's team defense is
With Thib’s gone, Perkins recovering from a big injury, and the departure of Tony Allen, we’ll have to see.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
You act like Miami will only play offense...lol
With Miami Who guards Kobe?
Unlike their other Teams where they were the star players, with all 3 on the court at the same time they all will be forced to work harder on the defensive end. No more coasting while the “role players” play D. There is only 1 ball. And they all can’t shoot it at once.
Everybody keeps saying that the Celtics have 1 or 2 good years left…lol. And that’s this year and next. So they can defend this year. Who keeps Rondo in check?
The NETS are coming!
whatever PG that is making the vet min, I assume
good luck with all of that
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
this
We have flexibility. I know that some folks are upset that we didn’t offer Stoudemire 120 million dollars uninsured, and aren’t trading T-Will for Kenny Thomas, but we’re in good shape.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Mr$$'s
Exactly we will find a spot for T-Will. Just let it play out. He gets attention. Gets us on Sports Center…lol. They Key to our season tho is Devin. Will he really step up and be smart with the ball and play with Passion? The whole team has something to prove and I like that about a young team with something to prove.
The NETS are coming!
MrBDown
You are on point.
the kneejerk stuff over terrence has gone from baffling, to stupid, to just plain laughable now. A second year player who is one of the more talented players on the roster outside of Harris and Lopez, and we’ve got people screaming to ship him out for pennies on the dollar. Same folks that have lambasted Billy King on here before King has even made a single move. Too funny.
Let Avery work with him, push him, and be hard on him. If he can’t handle it, and needs to be dealt, fine. I would prefer we deal him for more talent, not garbage. But if he responds to the challenge, that is a massive plus for us in the long term.
I actually have a positive outlook on Devin this season now that he will have good coaching behind him and room to operate. Avery already has him working hard, and I love the fact that he is working with Derrick as well. If he focues on defense and leadership first and foremost, he will have a huge year.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Mr$Bills, you are essentially saying: "I put all my faith in Avery"
You are leaning on Avery to personally take on at least 4 young players as projects.
Avery doesn’t walk on water, sorry to disappoint you.
You are off base. I'm not saying that, what I am saying is:
…that I am giving him the benefit of a doubt before I start acting like a kneejerk reacting, crying baby and assuming the worst.
Giving someone with a good track record, who has gotten the best out of talents like Josh Howard and Diop, and had the Mavericks playing solid defense, a CHANCE is not believing that he is walking on water. Now you’re being ridiculous.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Correct Again Mr$$
And we have other coaches too. Mitchell was Bosh’s Favorite coach and a former coach of the year himself. It’s about actually putting a system in place a model that younger players will grow into. Structure.
We will compete within the TEAM and it will carry over in games. I see 30 wins this year for us.
The NETS are coming!
yes, exactly:
Structure. A system. An identity going forward. These are the things that i am looking for from Avery
To me, a lot of this garbage I’ve been reading the past few days are from folks that just don’t like Johnson, and are trying to just throw the baby’s dirty diaper at the wall and hoping that something will stick eventually.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is why we are offseason winners
Can not to Miami but the addition of Proky and Avery makes us big winners.
Proky’s resources mean a full top notch coaching staff + trainers + film guys + scouts + facilities + ability to be aggressive with in season trades.
Avery will be worth more wins to the NETS than any player outside Miami will to their new team. Guaranteed.
Building a dynasty includes the infrastructure that supports the players. We got that right. And happily did not overreact by overpaying second rate not championship quality players to stall our on floor improvement.
NETS win
by Jay-dub on Jul 21, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
You can’t build something without a solid foundation in place.
The sky is not falling, we’re trying to lift the damned thing off of our heads.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Avery will be huge
Did you not see how awful our team was coached last year?… Coaching is a big deal. Even more so that we have these young talented projects ( we all seen what T-will can do with 30 min in a game so we are excited to see that paired with coaching)
Avery played the point guard position on a championship team with 2 of the greatest bigs of all time then coached one of the greatest offensive bigs of all time. I think it’s a big deal
coaching filled a big hole
but at the same time we are not the Nuggets or another team that was lacking a coach.
As many have said we have young players.
This team has no identity yet.
Their will be growing pains. We are developing not competing yet.
That is a huge difference this team isn’t ready yet but if we develop wisely I say in two years we will be playoff ready
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Not saying we are going to contend or even b a 8 th seed
But guys are acting like we are not taking the right steps.When developing a young team, a good coach is the most important point blank no argument
no one has any patience
Nets fans are better than this.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly...
I’m anxious to watch them grow. I’m sure some of them read what is being said. Or get wind and they will work and get better.
The NETS are coming!
And..
…adding effective roleplayers to the roster will help their development.
Courtney Lee being able to focus on defense, coming off of screens, and catching wide open looks will help his game a lot instead of being forced to create his own shot now that Brook, Harris, and Williams will have room to operate.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
T-Will had already tweeted that he wasn’t going nowhere. So he must have gotten wind of the trade rumors.
i'm sure that he did catch "wind" of them...
….since they originated from Dave D’s rear end
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
who said the Nets
are not taking the right steps all I said was two years from now we will be an 8 seed playoff team.
My biggest criticism of this team is direction. When I hear they are willing to trade a young potentially filled player for a short term answer makes me question this team, the coaching and everyone calling the shots .
If we are going to develop lets develop.
I know this team is 2 years away and that is okay but we can’t say their a youth movement and selling the fans we are building toward the future but interested in moves that only benefit the short term.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
It was just speculation from Dave D and wish from other readers.
And so said the old man!
yes but at the same time
all it takes is for Avery or King or anyone to say we are not trading Terrence.
If the rumors came out about Brook I believe they would be easily debunked which leads me to suspect this rumor has legs
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
silence on an issue does not give a rumor legs
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Lebron James has kept his mouth shut...
…does that mean that what Delonte West allegedly did with Gloria James is true? Nope.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Killa,
Dave D made that baseless speculation
Net Income has said on here a few times that it is not baseless, yet when I asked him to provide another source for the trade T-Will for garbage rumors, he has remained silent. I’m not taking a shot at NI, I just would like to see more credible information other than Dave D making idiotic speculations.
Some folks, who I think are being irrational, on here want to see Williams out of here because he twitters and has a spongebob backpack, but Nets fans who are reasonable would at least want to see what we have with the kid first and to see if Avery can get the best out of him before we sell him off for 2 packs of gum and a bag of lay’s salt and vinegar chips.
If Avery can get near all star level play out of a useless pot head like Josh Howard, I think that T-Will can also benefit from the General putting the leash on him.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
the Nets have the making of a helluva roster
think of it like this.
I love the match up problems Terrence brings remember what David West said after playing the Nets
David West(notes), who had 25 points, seven rebounds and six assists to lead New Orleans, noticed Williams in the game in which the Hornets allowed 40 fast-break points.
"They ran and they were too athletic on the wing, and out front we couldn’t guard them," West said. "Williams, I think that’s what his name is, was too much. When he came in he turned the course of the game. He was a bad matchup for us and we were never able to get them under control."
The game after the two overtimes Derrick Rose saying Twill wasn’t in the scouting report.
That is assets you don’t pass up or give away.
Develop right this team can be scary but I fear the Nets trying to rush might become the Knicks instead of the Thunder
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
killa,
exactly.
When Terrence got legitimate playing time, and had somewhat figured out what his role is in games on this level, he became a force. You just don’t give that away without seeing what he can do first.
And the talk about him being 3rd string…stupid nonsense. You put that kid on the floor, and let him play.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
people think he will be a problem but at the same time remember Melo when he first came in the league???
I agree the coaching will not only teach this team to defend but be accountable.
Also brotherhood will be taught.
Last year was too many different vendettas Yi undeserved time players feeling they deserve starting mins.
Now it’s what you do and get done will get you on the court.
I’m all for throwing Favors to the wolves and letting him start.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
the thing is that people just blatantly ignored how bad the circumstances were last year
The franchise was in disarray last season and it showed on the floor. This season, there is structure and stability. Huge difference from the front office all the way down to the guy who hangs up the player’s jerseys in the locker room pregame.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
No more players delivering pizzas or reversible jersey of the opponent.
Having pride with the team and it’s players. A owner who is not looking for an out.
A coach who isn’t interested in being their and know he is gone.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.....
They ignore how bad it was (worst in the league maybe ever) and they ignore how good it has already become.
disagree about Favors
….we shouldn’t baby him, but let him develop properly. The more effective he becomes off of the bench should be your barometer for when we should throw him into the water as a starter.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
yea
U see what you are saying but let us have him start. This way he and Brook and develop a chemistry.
Plus he will become more defensive minded playing alongside Brook.
Similar to Perkins. When other players offer Offense he can focus on defense and bring his offense game along.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree with you a bit but...
…i just want the kid to develop the right way. The chemistry with Brook will come in time. I don’t expect that in year 1.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
twill as a third stringer is nuts. i really have a feeling that avery knows he’s got some special talents and has begun his method of motivation (i.e. not mentioning him in interviews etc). i think its silly to trade him for spare parts and unrealistic to trade him (as part of a package) for a superstar. hopefully, he proves it on the floor this year as a net
imagine something extremely witty here
I have asked this several times. Perhaps it has been answered and I have missed it, but…
For Twill supporters…
HOW MANY minutes do you predict he will play a game?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not a supporter, but my bet is that Avery can find 25 minutes if he wants
We are all just trying to guess what Avery is thinking
You seem to be confusing fandom with analysis
When I and some others advocate trading TWill, we are using our analytical mind to evaluate a player like TWill and conclude that his future doesn’t look too bright on the Nets, and now is a PERFECT opportunity to trade TWill.
This is different from using my Nets fan perspective. That part of me obviously routes for TWill to be the best possible player he can be, because I am a Nets fan and he is a current member of the Nets.
You seem to be misconstruing my attempt at objective analysis (that TWill should be traded) as my failing to live up to being a Nets fan, and you are down on me for being a poor Nets fan as a result.
Let me make this simple for everyone:
Objectively, we ought to trade TWill, if not this offseason, then certainly by the trade deadline, even though I fear by then it might be too late.
Subjectively, I wish him the best as long as he is a Net, because I am a fan of the Nets.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
You aren't even providing any solid reasons to trade him!!!
You’re just saying “uh, we should trade him”
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
What will you REALLY expect to get eight NOW?
His Value isn’t as high now as it will be when he is showcased during the season. What do you want T-Will for Tiny Gallon? zthe only need we have right now is a starting PF. Not a bench guy you hope can start. I am against trading T-Will for anything less than that or a top 20 player.
The NETS are coming!
Well...
…make a definitive, factually based case as to why Williams should be traded for a plate of ham and eggs, and maybe then your analysis will be taken seriously…because so far, what I’ve seen from you seemed to be more fueled by venom instead of actual objectivity towards the kid.
Don’t just say we should trade high because…well, you haven’t really given much reason. Where is your objective analysis? Break down his game, and tell us why you think that he needs to go now for garbage.
And again, calling him ‘3rd string’ is laughable when he is clearly one of the more talented players on the roster.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and...
…no one is saying T-Will is untouchable. If the Nets come across a solid deal to include him in that will bump this team up another notch, awesome, happy trails Terrence…but trading him for stop gaps or wanting to dump him because he twitters…no. this crap needs to stop on here
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
CP3 Twitters...
And got Lebron on there too. Guess that takes CP3 off the radar now too… dang!
The NETS are coming!
at MrDB
And again, calling him ‘3rd string’ is laughable when he is clearly one of the more talented players on the roster.
He’s, by far, the most talented wing we have, IMO.
Not so long ago, after he broke out the last couple of weeks of the season, Dave D, the same MORON who calls him now a “spare part” and a “3rd stringer”, quoted team sources as saying they believed TWill had the potential to become the BEST player on the team.
by Andres B on Jul 21, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dave D is a xenophobic idiot
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said I wanted to trade him for garbage
for example, the players Dave D. listed are not garbage. Ilyasova is not garbage.
If you want me to repost my objective analysis, I will, but I will post literally reposting whole comments that I’ve posted in the past.
Give me a moment, please.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
the players that he listed ARE NOT WORTH
…..trading a talented 2nd year player for because those guys will NOT figure into our future plans.
A one year rental of Carl Landry for T-Will? get serious bro
and again, it’s all love here in Netsville, I just disagree heavily with you and the rest of the folks trying to toss Williams under the bus for no good reason.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it ok if I turn this into a fanpost?
Collecting all my previous posts and just dropping them in here again will seem like spamming.
Maybe tonight.
P.S. I’m not dodging you. I’m on my lunch break don’t want to use up all of it on a comment that might get ignored again.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
dude
go for it
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Hello? I said Ilyasova -- never mentioned Landry
He would be a good backup to Favors over time, and a serviceable starting PF for us this season.
Besides, I expect Humphries will be starting in game 1.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
i just don't think it makes any sense
to trade TWill for a PF when we have Favors as our PF of the future.
Correct, which is why I mentioned Ilyasova as a great backup PF to Favors
Lopez, Favors, and Ilyasova would be a nice big-man lineup for many years.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
the kneejerk stuff over terrence has gone from baffling, to stupid, to just plain laughable now.
And we’ve got people claiming that Twill has Hall of Fame potential.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the 2nd time you've brought up this garbage
Link to where this was said, otherwise, stop lying….because you’ve already killed your credibility on here severely by trying to hype Cousins up because he won Rookie of the Month in July, while in the same breath saying that Terrence winning ROTM in April meant NOTHING. LOL
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It must have been Andreas. The quote was something like “Harris, Twill and Brook have Hall of Fame potential”
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know who said that bro
….but don’t apply that to me, because this is the 2nd time that you’ve tried to do so.
I may be a hair’s length away from a trip to the insane asylum, but I wouldn’t say something like that.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Correction made. I’ll search for the post and correctly attribute it.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
unbelievable
Please find that quote. I never said ANY of those guys have Hall of Famer potentia,. You’re killing your credibility with this GARBAGE,
I’m looking. Gina remembers because he jumped in and said that there was no way that Harris would be a HoF player (leaving the Twill question as obvious).
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
*she
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If you don't who said
then stop suggesting that a specific person said it. Just say someone said.
As far as “hyping” Cousins, I didn’t hype him because he won the Rookie of the Month, I hyped him because he was passing like few big men I had ever seen. I used the Rookie of the Month award to counter those who called an article which counted Cousins as a Summer League “winner”, “lacking credibility”. Of course Cousins was a winner in SL, he won the Rookie of the Month.
Personally I think “of the month awards” are pretty meaningless, just as Twill’s was during the year.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You can’t say that you think that they are meaningless, and then use it to give your assessment of Cousins’ summer league experience some kind of vailidity.
You scoff at T-Will winning ROTM in April, during the regular season, where he averaged some solid numbers across the board, but you think that people should say that Cousins has “won” something because he won an award, during the summer league, that you consider meaningless?
que?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They are meaningless for assessing serious value, but to ridicule a writer who called Cousins’ Summer League experience a “winner” was out right goofball. He not only performed at the highest level of the league for a time, he ACTUALLY WON something, for whatever it was worth.
And yes, I scoff at Twill’s award when assessing his real worth. I would scoff at the same if Nate Robinson won the award, which he certainly has the talent to as well.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
don't get me wrong...
….i think that the award is nice, but T-Will still has to show and prove, on the court with his decision making, defense, and leadership…off the court, maturity and hard work. I don’t doubt that the kid is working hard either.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
How many minutes do you predict he will play?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't predict that really...in my opinion...
…it all depends on him, because he is more talented than anyone not named Lopez or Harris on this roster. If he does what Avery wants him to do on both ends of the floor within his system and he keeps his head up, responds well to tough coaching and listens, I can honestly see him playing 25-30.
Now if he doesn’t respond well, obviously he won’t get off of the bench.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
25 minutes at SG? How many minutes for Lee and Morrow then?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm talking about 25+ on the floor, period
It depends on how Avery uses him but I think the best way to use him is to plug him in wherever and let him work.
I can see lineups of Harris/Williams/Lee, Williams/Morrow/James, Farmar/Williams/Outlaw, i mean we can do a lot. I’d prefer Harris/Lee/Outlaw to start though
I trust Williams enough to run the offense in short spurts , but he HAS to stay under control and Avery will probably beat this into him.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is I would like from Twill supporters ACTUAL number.
Lineups don’t really tell us anything, there are finite minutes and positions.
Harris – 30 Farmar – 18
Lee – 25 Morrow – 23
Outlaw – 30 James – 18
This seems to be the way it is looking at least mid season.
Now to put Twill in, no matter the line up, means SUBTRACTING from these numbers. Which numbers are you taking from? Where are the 25 minutes coming out of?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah the problem with not playing William's
Is that the only attacking/driving/penetrating/playmaking guard we have is Harris, nobody else is as good with the ball in their hands on an elite level, I mean I love the other players but nobody can attack opposing D’s like Harris and T-will, I think T-Will is especially cary because of his size, strength, and athleticism.
by Atronic on Jul 21, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t know what you are saying. Whose minutes are you going to subtract from?
And I do believe Farmar is pretty good at attacking defenses, its the one thing the Lakers would not let him do.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If T-Will is playing better than the
Other guards he’s going to get PT, assigning Pt now makes no sense we have to wait until training camp and the preseason.
Numbers pleas.
What if Morrow continues to shoot the lights out, and Lee continues all around an defensive play?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
If Morrow shoots lights out
I can see him eating Lee’s minutes, I don’t know if Lee is that much better a defensive player than T-will, overall T-will is better than both those players when there on the court it will show.
So you are saying something like:
SG
Twill – 30, Morrow – 15, Lee – 3
???
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
How's Lee game all-around?
If anything, TWill’s is. And no, neiher him nor Morrow are better than him.
So what are you saying, something like
SG – Twill – 25, Lee – 15, Morrow – 8
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
All I know is that if your going with who's the better player
It is T-will, if he commits to defense like I think he will, I think the battle will be more between Lee and Morrow,there similar players, both are off the ball players, T-will can play well with Farmer as well.
All I ask is to put up the ACTUAL numbers that you imagine would best suit the idea that Twill is going to have a good year.
Lee averaged 33 minutes last year, and 25 the year before. Are you thinking that he is going to be so bad that his numbers are going to drop to 10 or less?
Are you saying that Twill will have a good year ONLY if both Lee and Morrow are terrible?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Lee's minute numbers will go down
When he broke out, TWill averaged more than 31 minutes a night during the final 2 months of the season, even if he was coming off the bench
I don't think Lee will get 30 minutes to start the season
I think it will be close to even until people establish themselves. If Lee is playing great and Morrow is shooting the lights out and TWill is earning more playing time that is a good problem it means that they can trade one of them while they are playing well instead of trading TWill just because you don’t see minutes.
It’s like having too much pitching in baseball, it always seems to work its way out and then later in the season you still need pitching.
Why can’t you figure that there will be injuries. What are the odds that TWill, Harris, Farmar, Morrow, Lee, Outlaw, and James ALL go through the season without any injuries. In fact, there is a good chance that one of them will need time off on any given night. I think its more ridiculous to assume no injuries.
Lee averaged 33 minutes last year.
So you are saying that:
SG – Twill – 18, Lee – 15, Morrow -15
All I am asking is that someone IMAGINE the minutes that would ALLOW Twill to have a very good season.
Injuries are not a part of this question unless your idea is: Twill will have a breakout year ONLY if someone gets injured for a while.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
you're assuming
that all those 3 players will get PT only at the 2. Which isn’t true in TWill and Morrow’s cases
If you want to imagine injuries you have to realize that injuries can happen to Twill as well, not just to the players he is competing for playing time with. For that reason they are not part of the equation.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not necessarily predicting a breakout year
But if people believe that TWill is a breakout candidate, my point is, that there will be minutes for him. There are too many variables to predict minutes and say who will not get minutes, but it is likely that minutes will open up.
08-09 NJN 69 69 36.1
09-10 NJN 64 61 34.7
look at Devin Harris he has never played over 70 games and has averaged around 35 minutes a game. My point is that is that minutes will be decided in the beginning of the year. As the season goes on minutes open up. If they have a glut, they will be able to make a trade at the deadline. It’s a good problem to have, better than handing over minutes and trading Twill for a lesser player. I’m not worried about it, I like our depth in the back court, players will emerge. If TWill deserves it he will find minutes, I don’t need to find them now.
by gsloots on Jul 21, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As I said, Twill ALSO can get injured.
Are you saying that Twill is going to have a good year because he is going to be the starting PG when Harris gets injured?
And if Harris doesn’t get injured he is only going to have a good year if someone else gets injured?
Saying you don’t have to find minutes now means to me that THERE ARE NO MINUTES unless someone gets injured or plays substantially below expectation. This is what you say about people out of the rotation.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't listen so well
I never said I was a TWill supporter. I am just saying that if TWill is the player that people think he is than they will find minutes for him. Those minutes could come from anywhere, it’s unpredictable.
And you don’t listen very well.
FIND MINUTES FOR HIM
means…
Take minutes from other players. Because I have put this question to Twill supporters I have no idea why you have elected to answer it in the vaguest of ways, referencing injuries and what not. I am not asking people to predict injuries, I’m asking people who think Twill is going to have a good year to tell me who is going to the bench and for how long for such a scenario.
I think Lopez is going to have a good year. This means that Petro would have only like 10-15 minutes a game. What don’t you get?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
role players like Lee or Morrow
not getting that many minutes is not a problem, they can play 20 mpg, Williams is a vastly superior player to them.
No one is saying, well Morrow is going to have a pretty good year IF we have a few injuries, and IF Lee plays badly. Everyone knows that Morrow is going to be playing at least 18 minutes at SG, barring a downturn.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not that big of a question. If you ask someone who predicts a big year from B. Lopez, how many minutes do you think he is going to have, you would say: maybe 37 or so.
If someone was predicting that Farmar was going to have a good year at point, they could say I predict he’ll cut into Harris’ minutes a bit and average 22 minutes a year.
BUT if you ask a Twill supporter how many minutes he’s going to have suddenly the universe becomes an impenetrable mystery. Injuries are mentioned, the unknown summoned up, anything that would prevent such a person actually saying how many minutes they thought he would average a game.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Lee averaged 33 minutes last year.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
emm
You’re comparing Lee who MUST play shooting guard with Twill who can play THREE positions. That’s why it doesn’t make sense to predict minutes because nobody even knows what position(s) Twill will be used. He could take two minutes away from Lee, Morrow, Outlaw, James, Farmar and Harris and that’s 12 minutes right there off the bat. And he CAN play all those positions for spurts.
Rec'd
It’s true, aside from TWill we have one guy who can get in the lane, HARRIS, and he usually gets in there to draw fouls, and people think he needs to do less of that and work on his outside J cause he gets banged up for getting in there. Twill has shown to be able to get in there pretty much at will, ain’t no one knocking him about down there once he gets there, he can get to the line and shoot it decently from there, finish in many different ways, or make those perfect passes to our shooters (he is a FAR superior passer to Harris in any situation – he actually passes it so the shooter can catch it comfortably and launch immediately). But hey, let’s trade him for a one dimensional jump shooting average power forward like Ilyasova. And be a strictly jump shooting team (aside from Harris – who needs to become more of a jump shooter and Lopez).
Take 5 mins away from each player? I dunno
You bring up a great point, and I’ll be damned if I know. That’s why Avery gets the big bucks.
I mean, yes, lets sit here and divide the minutes but do you honestly see this kid, especially if he keeps his head on straight, sitting at the end of the bench? In all honesty
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, that’s the thing that drives me crazy with Twill supporters predicting big year from Twill – or even suggesting he is going to have one. He HAS to be on the floor to have a big year, and in order to be on the floor other people have to NOT be on the floor.
If you aren’t going to predict the actual minutes you are just talking in the air – which is how I see it.
And when Twill does not get on the floor, how do you think he is going to respond?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
if Williams doesn't get on the floor...
…then he isn’t doing what Avery asked of him, period.
Bro, I cannot sit here and lie to you and predict actual minutes without knowing how Avery plans to use him.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
If you aren’t going to predict, then just sketch out your dream Twill minute display.
Let’s say that Twill is doing pretty good, making you happy. How many minutes is he taking from WHOM?
I mean this is not an unreasonable question. But because Twill supporters can’t answer it it makes them sound like they are just making things up and cheering, rather than analyzing (trying not to be too harsh).
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Fine. If he does what he's supposed to do, 32 minutes a game
and he’d be eating into Lee’s, Farmar’s, and Morrow’s minutes. Might be eating into Outlaw’s mins at the three if we run a line up like Harris/Lee/Williams/Outlaw/Lopez.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
your point is flawed
since it starts from the assumption that inferior players to him like Lee and Morrow are going to get X playing time, thus limiting TWill’s minutes.
by Andres B on Jul 22, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And I hope you are joking about substracting 5 mins from everyone.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That's assuming that Avery sticks with the same rotation all season
A) there will likely be injuries
B) In the beginning there will probably be close to equal minutes as he figures out the rotation
C) Avery has stressed that the best players will play so TWill could play a lot of minutes some parts of the season and little on others depending on how he performs. If we believe he is THAT good than he will perform and win minutes.
D) There will be different lineups and matchups against different opponents, so against a small lineup he may play more
It is ridiculous to guess the minutes right now, there are so many variables. If TWill plays well, he will play – bottom line.
Its not ridiculous at all. Its not about being right, its about assessing the actual ROOM for playing time.
What is silly is saying that a player is going to have a very good season, but not considering if he can even get on the court to do so.
I’m perfectly happy to predict, or sketch out probably minutes.
Injuries are obviously not a part of the question.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
For instance my preferred prediction will go this way, IF Avery is going to let him play:
PG Harris – 32 Farmar – 16
SG Lee – 30 Morrow – 18
SF Outlaw – 3o Twill – 18
James will start the season in the bench out of the rotation. Twill will not be well-suited at SF in Avery’s approach, so he will be either forced into Morrows minutes, or back out of the rotation for James.
That is my guess, but I don’t think that Twill will top 20 min average t his year, mostly because there isn’t any room for him to perform well. And without performing well and finding his feet, he will not respond well.
It is for this reason he will be traded for a PF, sooner rather than later.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Avery's conference call
That was one of the questions. With all the wings how do you make sure every one gets touches? “It’s not about everybody getting touches.” He said he had the minutes in his back pocket. 3 guys deep at every position in training camp and make them battle it out. Wants guys that are ready to compete night in and night out.
Sure. But it still doesn’t answer the question at all
And this is exactly what you would have to say if you were trying to trade someone. You would never say, “Well, I don’t have enough minutes to go around, I guess someone is going to be on the bench.”
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
You say here is how you fit my system
Here is what I expect out of you
I’m not going to hand you anything since I am a new coach. Everyone is going to come in and fight for minutes if you do it better than the guy in front of you consistently you will get minutes. Why is that hard to understand?
Twill supporters think that he is better than the competition. Therefore, he will earn the minutes.
All I’m asking Twill supports to do is PUT SOMEONE ON THE BENCH, so that Twill can get on the court. Tell me/us WHO is going to the bench for how long so Twill can have his very good year.
Its not a crazy thing. I put Twill on the bench because I can tell you the minutes Lee and Morrow SHOULD be playing.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
nothing is set in stone
Avery sounds as if he isn’t sure of the minutes. Training camp and actually seeing the guys compete against one another. Also, injuries have to be factored in otherwise you would have no backup plan. On a sidenote: I can’t remember but a few games where T-Will did not play in college. (knock on wood)
Sure. But for those who EXPECT Twill to have a good year, for THOSE people (not Avery Johnson, those people), how many minutes do you think he is going to have, and the expense of WHOM? Its a very simple question.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on current roster
Here are my minutes:
PG: Harris 33, Farmar 15
SG: Lee 30, Morrow 18 (this spot will vary greatly depending on hot hand and effort. Harris and Farmar could also get minutes here if playing well.
SF: Williams 25, Outlaw 18, James 5 (James won’t get much time to start season barring injuries)
PF: Outlaw 15, Favors 20, Humphries 13
C: Lopez 35, Petro 13
Until the Nets get a starting PF I have Outlaw as the starter, but sliding over to SF with Favors in game. I actually like this line-up because it puts another shooter at PF to give Lopez space.
One thing we can all count on is Harris getting hurt and plenty of minutes at back-up PG for Terrence.
T-Will's minutes
I could see something like…
Harris – 24 Farmar – 16 T-Will – 8
Lee – 25 Harris – 8 Morrow – 15
Outlaw – 20 T-Will – 12 James – 16
Thank YOU. Finally someone with vision.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I just would need to point out that this estimate would require that Harris plays fewer minutes a game than he has in over 6 years. If Harris even comes close to the 30 minutes he has been over for the last 4 years, this would put Twills minutes at 12 a game at SF.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
30 mpg for Lee and Outlaw?
No way, IMO.
Lee’s PT is going to get down significantly, IMO. He is the only one out of those wings who can only play one position. He can only play the 2 and nothing but the 2. Guys like Outlaw and James can get some PT a the 4. Avery himself said Morrow can play the 3. TWill can play any perimeter position which is a main reason why I believe he’ll ge his PT, because he gives you plenty of options, like AJ himself said. He can get some PT at the, 2 or 3. Lee’s minutes will be limited because he doesn’t have that versatility and can only get minutes at the 2.
Found it, sorry Bill and Andres, it was Ben
yea and the entire history also tells you, very few people are considered HOF until after that title, and the many others that havent won one, you must have some opinion for them, you just stay stating the obvious, well here you go, TWill, Devin Harris, Brook Lopez all have HOF potential, and give them a title and they are up their with most of the others, your theory is only good for after winning a championship, not for predicting anything
Double sorry for Bill, but Bill and Ben I sometimes confuse. Again though, the Twill madness certainly has swung too far the other way at times.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
its cool kv
sorry if i came off as a bit harsh as well
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It would bug me if someone was attributing stuff to me too, especially THAT.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
lol exactly
it happens don’t worry about it. we are all bored and have resorted to bickering amongst each other
hopefully some extra wins this season and good play will end that
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
chicago had the better offseason…
then the knicks…
clips and nets basically had a similar offseason…nets with a slight advantage.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Chicago had a better start
You need a stud to contend and Rose could be that guy. They needed a good #2 and Boozer might be that guy. They have a potential #3 in either Deng (if he wakes back up) and Noah.
Knicks traded a #2 or #3 (Lee) for the same guy in Amare. Unless Amare attracts a #1 then they have swapped out the same team. They may get better in wins and losses, but they have not taken a step forward toward a championship – which is the objectve……
who has taken a step in a championship
other than the Bulls
The way that certain teams are built in the East it will be hard to get past Miami, Bulls and The Magic.
Heck Boston will likely continue to be a problem with teams as Rondo continues to improve
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
which is why we need...
….to continue to develop players, establish a strong foundation and identity for the team going forward, and maintain flexibility for the right deal if it comes along.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You have to ride the cycle
The cycle starts when you accept you do not have a team built to win a championship.
First dump assets to acquire youth and upside. Good news is we did it fast and hard so we got some value. To many teams wait to long (AI in Philly being one example). Better horrible for a couple of years then average for a decade.
Now you suck but you get high draft picks = more young talent and upside.
Then you become OK, which means no more top draft picks. But you can keep riding the upside improvement of youth and try to add a few key pieces in trades and free agents. The Thunder this year.
Then comes the hard part – if you have not found the stud in the draft or stole him in a trade you need to take a shot and go get one – trade more than you wanted, overpay a free agent. But you have to do it before your improvement cycle stalls. And not so soon it stunts the youth development or wastes the last years of your star acquistion. Orlando and may now Portland.
We are still riding the upside wave and we need to keep our cap flex to be able to go after the big ffish in the next 1-3 years. It is never easy and it may require some Proky luck. But I like where we are and who is making the calls.
by Jay-dub on Jul 21, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Typo alert
The article actually has the Nets #3, not 4th.
25 wins should be our mark and where I expect us to finish
I think with this team and their age and development it will be a learning curve but nothing wrong with being a lottery team for the next two years
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 11:02 AM EDT reply actions
So Young Players Can't get better?
Wow. So there is no chance that the lights just go on for a few of our guys and they become really good or even great? Oulaw can’t put up Rudy Gay #‘s? What if Morrow is the next Reggie Miller? T-Will can’t put up Tyreke Evans #‘s? Brook cant put up 20 and 10? Brook will get more calls and respect in year 3 and for a dude who shoots 80% FT that is the difference between 19ppg and 22ppg. If Devin averages 15 and 8 i’m happy with him.
And the draft next year appears to have some players. Maybe we win the Lottery Next Year. And Favors starting next year.
Maybe Playoffs in year 2 of the Proky era. Nice way to close out Jersey.
The NETS are coming!
Um...
Let me take a few seconds to recover from “What if Morrow is the next Reggie Miller?” and T-Will putting up 20-5-5.
Listen, I think the Nets will win at least 38 games this year, but some of those statement’s comedic value outweighs their puerilatiy. I think players on this young squad will come into their own, I think the Nets are stacked in terms of young talent, but Outlaw putting up 20 & 6 is laughable.
You Never know
What makes you the total supreme evaluater of Nba talent???? LOL. Morrow is going into season 3 and T-Will into season 2. I keep hearing begging for Danny Granger on here. He didnt become Danny Granger till Year 3. So how about we just play this thing out. Alot of our guys are in Year 3. C Lee, Brook, Farmar, Morrow. T-Will is Year 2 and James and Favors are Rooks. Devin and Outlaw are the most experienced guys on the TEAM and Outlaw was never HANDED a starting Job. Let’s see how it shakes out. Opportunities are here for these guys
The NETS are coming!
I agree...
But, comparing Anthony Morrow to Reggie Miller just because of his stroke takes the hyperbole on ND to a new level.
Reggie wasn't a great
Athlete Just a GREAT shooter and a fierce competitor. Morrow is already reguarded as a top tier shooter in this league after 2 seasons. Let’s give em some more time. “Hey you never know”
The NETS are coming!
puerilatiy
do you mean puerile, why not just say childish? who talks sports using words like that?
The word is “puerility”, but is there really any reason for folks to dumb down sports talk?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go as far as to say that Morrow is Miller 2.0....
….those are big shoes to fill.
But as far as your point, yes, who says that young players cannot better.
You have people that seem to assume that Brook Lopez will not improve, or that Derrick Favors is going to remain a raw, 18 year old kid. Or Damion James will remain a rookie. Or that Travis Outlaw cannot become a solid contributor to this team under Avery Johnson, who has gotten a bag of garbage to smell like roses when he was in Dallas.
I can’t wait for the season to start honestly. The blind negativity around here is getting on my nerves.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes young players can get better
at the same time we are developing players.
How many playoff appearances has Rudy Gay made??
We are rebuilding and developing and that is the point. My expectations are realistic for a team that won 12 games and with minor roster improvements.
We still don’t know what is or what isn’t going to work in Avery system.
Still too many questions.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 11:52 AM EDT reply actions
It will be enjoyable to watch the Knicks only win about 30 games, again this year. These evaluations are worthless.
If you only go by increase in wins, then 35-12 = +23 wins for NETS will rival the net gain for Miami. The increase could be more if Nets use up assets for a BIG, as Avery hopes.
Clippers will probably be next in improvement.
Chicago was already a 500 team, so their improvement may be minimal.
The author fails to mention that Knicks have used up all their cap space already, while Nets have about 14.9 million left.
They also fail to mention that besides Favors, Nets picked up DJames, who could become a solid starting 3 by end of season. They also don’t mention TWill – just because Avery isn’t publicly promoting TWill, doesn’t mean he isn’t rooting for him to blossom this year.
I gotta disagree with you Jerry
I think the Nets will win 40+ games this season.
People are really overlooking the aquisition of Randolph, Turiaf and Azubuike. Turiaf complements Stat well with his ability to play great interior defense and rebound effectively (although he could be better). Randolph is perfect for D’Antoni’s system and (if healthy) Azubuike is a very good scorer off the bench.
Felton
Walker
Gallo
Stat
Turiaf
Is a pretty good lineup (although no defense wil be played), with pretty good depth coming off the bench in Douglas, Chandler, Randolph and Azubuike.
And don’t forget about the flexibility that Curry’s expiring offers the Knicks. Don’t mean to be a buzzkill, but the Knicks had a very good off-season (despite that horrendous contract they gave Stat.
I think you mean the Knick
I agree the Knicks received guys that will flourish in Mike D system but we all know it will be successful in the playoffs
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
40+ Wins?
This team wont defend. And who is your #2 SCORER? Gallo just wants to Jack 3’s lol. Turiaf at center? Amare is taller..lol. And Turiaf has never started. Always a bench energy guy at best now you got him in the starting lineup will Bill Walker saying 40+ wins in a conference with Boston, Orlando, Chicago and the “Scheme Team”
But I’m delusional?
The NETS are coming!
Agree to disagree
If and when Stat agrees to play Center and Randolph can start at the 4 that’s a scary frontcourt.
Gallo is a good scorer, don’t overlook his ability. Matchup nightmare.
Matchup Nightmare ???
Not quite . No Conventional Center or SF Gallo won’t be able to gaurd 3’s and Randolph will have problems with REAL Power Forwards… And Amare is a small center Who won’t rebound as much. So you are correct. A Matchup nightmare for the Knicks. 3 6-9 guys who aren’t really fast or strong.
The NETS are coming!
That's a bold prediction for a team that will probably be allowing their opponents....
….to run a lay up drill for over 82 games. Have fun with that one.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
When Nets play the Knicks would be a good opportunity to let TWill loose on the Knicks porous defense.
And I thought Turiaf has never played big minutes. Isn’t he like a bulkier slower version of Hump (basically a decent sub?)
It might take 1/2 of season for Knicks to gel as a team. Will Amare produce every night on a losing team, especially on the road? A lot is resting on Felton. D’Antoni has habit of giving the better players too many minutes and running them into the ground. Then he benches other decent players who he doesn’t like.
Too many uncertainties for Knicks. But even 40 wins would only be an 11 win increase, so that isn’t exactly a great off season, considering they don’t have draft picks going forward.
Avery Johnson >> D’Antoni is a key difference.
Turiaf is much more than Hump. He was a pretty highly valued 18 minute PF for the Lakers in 2007. The just couldn’t afford to keep him.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly jerry
and to me, Avery giving T-Will the business about being late for the team bus is a sign that he wants EXCELLENCE from Terrence, not that he hates him. Some players need a coach like Avery. Being hard on a kid is a sign that you care. If he had no use for Terrence, I doubt he’d even bother worrying about him.
Avery hasn’t said much about Lee either, that doesn’t mean that Lee isn’t in Avery’s plans either.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Comparison of Outlaw vs. Gay
I don’t know if its appropriate to post articles or writeups from other websites, but I found a comparison of Travis Outlaw vs. Rudy Gay (the nets supposed second choice for SF) on a Nets Blog that I found pretty interesting. If all his numbers are correct, they match up pretty evenly and we got Travis for a much lower price.
some reason the link didn’t post. here it is:
http://whoopdedamndo.com/quick-hitter-travis-outlaw-and-rudy-gay.html
+1
I knew I wasn’t Tripping. We just need Outlaw to stay healthy.and 15 more pounds would make me feel better too…lol
The NETS are coming!
I don't expect Outlaw to average 20 per...
…but to be an effective player from the SF spot, in rotation with Damion “The Beast” James, is not unrealistic at all. Outlaw is not a bum. People are overreacting.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad to see more belief that Melo will re-sign with Nuggets, as Billips predicts.
Nets need to realize that holding onto 14+ million cap space may be a waste of the year, if they thought that Melo would come. As long as Melo can’t go to Knicks, I am pleased, because that also would thwart any stupid Knick fan notion of getting both Melo and CP3.
In other news, David Lee’s middle finger injury could be more serious than first believed, as he has gone back to Warriors for evaluation.
I was thinking same thing, but couldn't get myself to say it.
And he WAS worth it, if only to increase the separation between Nets and Knicks in wins, and decrease the separation in terms of fans.
And it is after-the-fact BUNK to believe that Thorn, Avery and Proky didn’t want to sign him, as he was available for about the same price that people predicted in a competitive market. They were talking to the agent every day, but they failed to show any respect for Lee, by having face to face meetings. Hence, the Finger is fitting.
I wonder if DLee’s aspiring actress girlfriend is moving to San Fran. with him?
It's never a waste to maintain cap flexibility
We want room to grow, not be bogged down with a bad deal and be left stranded in the middle of the pack
There is no one out there that is worth spending that space on.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly it isnt "free" money
Why spend just to spend. Rich guys don’t get or stay rich that way. Ask Proky!
The NETS are coming!
Its totally worth it to spend on an expiring free agent, if you aren't going to use that money during the next 7 months anyway.
And if Nets had to do it over again, and knew they weren’t going to get LeBron, I bet they would have signed either Boozer or Lee while everyone was talking about LeBron.
We will never know the whole truth. We do know that Nets were also very serious about paying big money for TThomas and Scola, hence their big contracts.
We only learned yesterday that Nets blew a chance to get a backup big in Tiny Gallon.
Fact is that Nets came up just short on each attempt and maybe kicking themselves all year if something isn’t done.
Avery wants the team set for training camp, so something has to happen.
Why would the Nets sign Boozer or Lee to a near max deal
when they just drafted a PF with the #3 pick? The would have only signed either one to a serious deal if Lebron was coming.
they had interest in Scola and Thomas but were any deals made or matched?
Tiny Gallon looked awful to me, and the only thing in this post that I may agree with you on is filling the remaining space with an expiring, like AK47.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The evidence has been posted on NetsDaily that they went seriously after every one of those players, and not conditional on LeBron.
That doesn’t mean there is hard evidence.
Avery made it clear if he got a Boozer/Lee type, that would have put even less pressure on Favors, which he felt was a GOOD thing. I agree that Boozer could have been a problem with Favors, but not DLee. Any top team needs 3 top Bigs, especially since Favors would only be 23 after a 5 year contract with the PF.
It was posted that Nets were making 8 million x 5 year offer for TT, and then it was updated to being signed by Charlotte for same amount.
It was also posted that Houston had no other interest for Scola except from the Nets. Hence it is logical to assume that Nets bid in the range of the 47 million he was offered by Houston. Otherwise, there would have been no reason for Houston to go higher than necessary.
And some people thought Gallon looked good, and the Nets were ready to buy the Miami pick to take Gallon. If Gallon wasn’t good, then the Bucks should be glad to give him to the Nets for a 2nd round pick and cash.
Nets can Deny all they want, but enough evidence is out there to know they failed at all attempts to sign the players they wanted, at least among the “Bigs”.
well, if they failed, they failed. no point in worrying about players that aren't here
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if they failed
we should cry and whine about it clearly. Sometimes if you whine enough, time reverses itself and then you can go back and remake history!
JB to the C's?
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/columns/story?columnist=forsberg_chris&id=5398198
As our good friend Zach Lowe of CelticsHub points out, Boone might be the best remaining rebounder among the free agents. What’s more, he’s likely to come cheap and he has a history with new Celtics top assistant Lawrence Frank in New Jersey. While Boone’s offensive game is cringe-worthy at times, I think having him as your Shelden Williams-like fourth or fifth big with a focus on defense and rebounding wouldn’t be a bad thing.
I’d like us to re-sign him
I was thinking about this too
I don’t really want to bring Boone back for anything more than a year or two, but can we say that the options at PF would be better than Boone? We at least know that Boone can board. ugh
I would have signed Smith if his price was only 1 year, 1 mil. we could have afforded to throw him an extra mil on top of that
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think
there’s any PF out there better than JB. Maybe a veteran like Kurt Thomas would be a nice addition to mentor Derrick, but that’s it. I think we should sign JB to a cheap 1-2 year deal. I also agree that we should have gone after Rhino, esp after seeing the contract he got from the Clips.
Boone sucks
Lets not go there any longer. And he doesnt provide what DF needs- a mentor. Kurt Thomas though is an excellent idea IMO. Stop gap, will teach DF the ropes.
Who will take the Cavs playoff spot next year??
I think we can sneak in if we make a trade for a B level talent, I believe if healthy we are better than the Knicks, Raptors, Sixers, I’m not sure who else is a threat, possibly the Wizards I guess.
urge...to kill....rising....
….need…new…netsdaily stories….need…new….rumors….need…in house….bickering….
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
LFrank replacing Thibs in Boston...
Small ball in Beantown: PPierce at PF? Rondo at SF?
Discuss.
I think he’ll make a great assistant, even if I almost developed a twitch from watching his head coaching…
by JohnFromLongIsland on Jul 21, 2010 4:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sources closes to the situation also suggest that the Nets will win more than 12 games this season
I have the same sources as Chris Broussard, btw
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Stromile Swift threw his hat in the ring as well.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Lebron's mother wanted to take a shot at trying out the Heat as well
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
sources close to the situation say
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
She throws chalk up in the air really good.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
better in the air than up her nose
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No, Beasley got traded from the Heat.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yikes
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahaha
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
She’s been “training” with Big Z… Said she needed a challenge bigger than Delonte…
by JohnFromLongIsland on Jul 21, 2010 5:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Oh snap
"Hope for the Best, Expect the Worst"
Let's hope this motto changes...
by NetsMets4Life on Jul 21, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The man rides around on motorcycles with sawed off rifles like it's Grand Theft Auto
and hunts cougars, apparently
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Sources have told me that if I attempt to define that term that I may be banned. More news as it comes.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
@ Trying out the Heat.
Not trying out for the Heat. Trying out the heat! GET IT? GET IT?
What a long da
The Heat did sign Juwan Howard, oh well there goes our PF :)
http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/heat_signs_juwan_howard_2010_07_20.html
Isn't he like 63?
His 401K must have taken a major dive if he’s still looking for work…
by JohnFromLongIsland on Jul 21, 2010 5:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't mind joining the Heat either
doesn’t mean I’m gonna
by Taylor Bartle on Jul 21, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Sources: Eddy Curry taking his talents to South Beach
Bringing extra 40 lbs., also
"Hope for the Best, Expect the Worst"
Let's hope this motto changes...
by NetsMets4Life on Jul 21, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Sources say that the extra 40 lbs is not from his luggage
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
A new report from the Associated Press says that
flight attendants though Curry was smuggling something underneath his shirt.
It was was later revealed to be his stomach.
"Hope for the Best, Expect the Worst"
Let's hope this motto changes...
by NetsMets4Life on Jul 21, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
And a bag of Doritos.
"Hope for the Best, Expect the Worst"
Let's hope this motto changes...
by NetsMets4Life on Jul 21, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yi
I wonder if we would have still dumped his salary in that trade, if we’d known we weren’t gonna get Lebron.
I’m not saying we should or shouldn’t have gotten rid of him… just wondering…
go back a few days in the open thread that topic high jacked the thread
Since the face been revealed the game got real
no problem
Well there was no real conclusion make a fan post about it
Since the face been revealed the game got real
T.Will's Minutes
I think the best part of this team is the versatility and depth we did not have last year.
We got ravaged with injuries last season.
If one of:
Harris
Farmar
C.Lee
Morrow
Outlaw
D.James
gets injured.. T.Will can take their minutes since he can play 1-3.
Additionally, we have players at the 3 (Outlaw and James) who like it or not, will be seeing minutes at the 4, and thus opening up more PT on the perimeter.
So, instead of 48×3 minutes (144) I see about 160 minutes for those 6 players, plus T.Williams. That is 25 minutes each.
Not only that, I don’t see why D.James would just be handed minutes from the start. Sure I would like to see him get some and develop, but let’s not get carried with his summer play, or assume he’s going to get the nod from the start.
Thanks for attempting to reply.
Please give me ACTUAL minute numbers, not hypothetical numbers. I have offered them, I don’t know no one else can.
You list a bunch of people who can get injured. WELL, I have new for you, so can Twill. The question of injury is meaningless.
I do agree that James is not likely getting minutes from the start. In my prediction I gave these minutes to Twill. This will change during the season, probably to Twill’s deficit.
IF you are saying that Twill with NOT get substantial minutes unless the team experiences substantial injury, this is by definition an out-of-the-rotation guy.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
to be clearer, instead of “not hypothetical numbers” I should have written “not generalized numbers”.
Just put up a prototypical 48 minute game distribution which would reflect Twill at the height of his 2010 powers, just to show what such a game would ideally look it. Its not that complicated.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude its simple, No one knows where the minutes will come from
(because it is a new coach and we didnt even start offseason practices yet) But everyone is confident he will earn them some how
And its pretty simple. I’m not talking to general Net fans. I’m talking to Twill fans who believe that he is going to have a breakout year.
For those fans I am asking what his minutes are going to look like. Its not complicated. If Twill fans are telling me that he is going to have a very good year but they have no idea how it is going to happen I might as well go to an astrologer.
If I predicted a breakout year for Farmar it is perfectly fair for someone to ask him how many minutes he is going to play, and whose minutes he is going to take. It would be pretty silly of me to say, “I don’t know, it will just happen”
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously
if they feel he is goin to have a break out year they feel he is goin get minutes somewhere. Whether he takes those minutes from outlaw, CLee or morrow is unknown because noone is playing yet. Let it go, if they think he is going to have a break out year its because he is talented (2 talented to not get minutes)
I’m just asking them to name minutes. Its not that hard. Just name the minutes and stop talking in cliche vagueness.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What you dont understand is...
it is July, no one know’s not even Avery
Not asking who knows. I’m asking Twill fans (of whom there are a few) HOW THEY PICTURE IT.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn...talk about head through the wall...
Minutes! Gimme minutes! I get the general idea of all the posters without anyone writing down actual numbers. Think in abstract.
One more time
There will be more than 48 minutes a game per position.
Take Harris who averages, say 35 minutes a game over the last two years. But he only averages 67 games that’s 2345 minutes. In an 82 game season there are 3936 minutes available. So take Harris’ minutes out and average that over the course of a season that leaves 19.4 minutes available per game over the course of a season at the point guard position. So if you are figuring a 48 minute game, when minutes change from game to game and people get hurt, then you will be missing minutes.
Let alone the point that trying to find minutes for Twill now is ridiculous because the competition hasn’t started yet and we don’t know the rotation other than Avery suggesting that Lee is the starting 2 and Twill will play both the 1 and the 2, the fact that you keep harping on minutes makes this whole argument superfluous. Yet you still give examples of Twill playing the 3 even though Avery said he is NOT a 3.
You are not getting it.
I’m am not asking for end of the year averages, per se. I’m asking for a perfect game profile, the kind of game a TWilll fan would say:
THIS IS HOW I IMAGINE A GAME WOULD LOOK LIKE
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. He is not a three. Its the only place for him because James is a rookie. He will be displaced from there, I predict.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with gsloots
kv, it seems like your only purpose behind this is to find someone that will agree with your vision of T-Will being out of the rotation.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 21, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
OK
PG
Harris – 32
Farmar – 12
T.Williams – 4
SG
C.Lee – 28
Morrow – 16
T.Williams – 4
SF
Outlaw – 20
T.Williams – 18
D.James – 10
PF
Favors – 24
Humphries – 12
Outlaw/James – 12
C
Lopez – 32
Petro – 12
Hump/Favors – 4
Also, like I said if any of the 6 perimeter players get injured (very likely someone will have an injury, illness or personal reason to sit out a games) T.Williams can get those minutes.
Right, there I have him about 26 minutes without accounting for injuries. I also am being generous assuming D.James gets minutes right away. If he does, he probably takes away some from T.Will, Outlaw and Humphries at the 4.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The only problem with those numbers is that Outlaw has not played PF in several years, and when he did it was on a very different, not very good team. Further, you have Twill playing SF when Avery has said that he is not a SF.
Just pointing this out.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Trust Me
Every coach and team plays players at not their ideal positions based upon match up.
I remember Avery playing Dirk at C.. is he a C?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea i was just goin to point that out
all that means is he is not going to start at SF nothing more nothing less
If T-will takes over games like he did last year
I dont care how big Outlaw contract is or how good CLee is defensively and can shoot the ball (which he struggled with last year) he is going to get playing time. But to try to sort it out mathematically is crazy because Avery has not seen these guys up close and personal
Its not that “crazy”. What is the ideal minute profile if Twill is doing what you hope?
I just want to see what such a game looks like to you?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
So you see him being the main back up of Outlaw?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I Do
You see an unproven late 1st round rookie being the main back-up to Outlaw?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Great so do I. But I also see him eclipsed in that role by mid season by James, and having nowhere to go because I also assume by then that Morrow will be firmly established as the backup SG.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
So Trade Him Then
After he plays some minutes and has some nice output.
Not after summer league, I don’t think GM’s are as naive as we make them out to be and think summer league makes or breaks player’s values. I’d say T.Will’s value is still lower than it could be.
But, I agree don’t hold on to anyone too long. Buy low, sell high.
I was clamoring for the Nets to trade Harris right before he made the All-Star game, and up until the next fall. His value was at an all time high, and other teams’ poster were offering the kitchen sink for him. Including Portland ironically.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Then we agree.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure. And Twill can play PF, why not. All I’m asking is what a typical game profile looks like.
If such a profile MOSTLY has Twill’s minutes at SF, and Avery has said that he really isn’t a SF, then we have some "splaining to do.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
And Since When is Outlaw Starting Quality?
At least Avery will be playing T.Will off the bench.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure. If you want to say:
SF – Outlaw – 30, Twill – 18
that’s all I wanted to hear. its what I predict myself, at least in the beginning of the year.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Outlaw Will Play Some PF
Book it.
We have no big man that can shoot like him.
Brook has nice outside touch.. out to 15-20. But that is not where he should be playing.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I love when people tell me to “book” something.
How about I tell you that Twill will play no more than 15 minutes a game for most of the year, or will be traded, book it.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Then I Would Gladly Take You Up on the Bet
Do you not actually watch the NBA?
Do you see where stretch PF’s have become much more common?
Do you see where Outlaw has played PF?
Do you see where many teams go to small ball line-up off the bench?
Do you see that T.Williams can play PG – SF?
Do you see where T.Williams got many minutes the end of last year and in summer league?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Name a stretch PF who weight 207 pounds or less.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
And You Know Outlaw Now Ways This?
And why?
I’ve already shown he does play PF.
Wanna just end this stupid debate?
I will predict that T.Williams plays more than 20 mpg as a Net, and Outlaw plays more than 10mpg at PF.
Agree or disagree?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
What can I say, he is listed at 207. And somewhere else at 210.
Do you just want to make up his weight so that your “I watch the NBA but hate stats” argument makes sense?
Okay. Outlaw weighs 230. Good point.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m waiting for that name. I’ll save you the Google and tell you that Rashard Lewis weighs 230 lbs.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
dude, give it up
You want people to give you a specific number, which is ridiculous. It’s up to Avery, and he it will take some time for him to clear up his mind in that regard. You can’t really “predict” anything when he hasn’t even been able to work with those kids. Youi also are focusing on TWill, when the same question could be asked about INFERIOR players to him like Lee or Morrow. TWill is better than them, if e does what he has to do, he will get more PT then them, because he’s more talented and brings a lot more things to the table, that’s the botom line.
by Andres B on Jul 22, 2010 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Plus I need to add, there is nothing that puts Outlaw at the PF. He is 207 lbs and has not played PF in any significant way since three seasons ago, and then on a very different, and not a very good team. James is 6’ 7" and not a PF.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Outlaw Has Played Alot of PF
And I can send you links to other sites of Blazers fans referencing him playing there, and that he is more effective there. I have nothing better to do during this flight delay in NEWARK no less.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You need to look at those stats closely. He hasn’t played PF substantially since the 2007 season, when Portland went .500. And on that team Aldridge and Frye were the main Centers, nobody who was on the block.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I Can Start a Thread on Another Board
And ask Portland fans if you want, but I have read that plenty over the years.
I have no idea what his stint was like in LA.
Meanwhile I will trust Portland fans than stats who may or may not truly see the game or know the line-ups.
He didn’t play ANY minutes at PF in LA. In his last year in Portland these were the top 5 man rotations by min:
It was 2007 when he played most of the time at PF When Portland got good the moved him to SF.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
As you can see his minutes at PF were way down, and he had Oden and Aldridge who are both decent weakside shot blockers backing him up when he was in there.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW.. Something About This...
Roy is a very adept play-maker who can play PG in the half court. Just like VC did when he was this us, but I bet neither of them show up in the 5 man units at PG.
Just trying to show you how these stats are rather rudimentary.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know what you are talking about. in the SF lineups of that year there is a definite PF playing and a definite C playing. Outlaw is not “secretly” playing PF.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Sigh....
Look at the line-ups where Outlaw plays.
At SF is a SG/SF.
At PF is Outlaw a SF/PF.
Thus Outlaw gets defaulted to PF and the SG to SF.
But players like Roy or VC did not default to PG, because they are listed as SG/SF.
It’s a computer model.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The principle lineups where Outlaw played most his time he had Ald. and Pryz and Oden at the PF and C position. He was not playing PF in these lineups.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Becuase They Had Better Options At PF
If Favors is not ready, or someone is injured, Outlaw will play PF plenty.
Trust me.
And he does ok there.
Of course I would rather have a better PF as an option right now… regardless of whether we has Outlaw or T.Wiliams or whoever on the roster.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure. But the the option to have Outlaw at PF was made more possible with the kind of lineup they were running out there, it is not the case that he is a good PF solution in his own right. And as soon as they got a solution to PF the moved him to SF.
There is a chance that he can play short stints at PF, but quite unlikely that he is going to move over there to provide substantial minutes for Twill, just my opinion based on his history at Portland and his 210 pounds.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
If Outlaw is playing PF it is not to Accomodate T.Williams
It will be done if:
The Nets need more shooting (Favors, Hump + Petro cannot)
Someone is injured
Someone is in foul trouble
The match-up allows
etc…
This team does no revolve around T.Williams. I have not said that.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure. Spot minutes in need. Who knows, Favors might play Center and Twill might play point if there are enough injuries. But it should not be counted as a substantial lineup position.
In your minute profile you have Outlaw (/James???) playing 12 minutes a game at PF
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
At least your acknowledging the possibilities
Why do you question James.
The leading rebounder in Texas’s history at his size, will probably get some spot minutes there as well, yes.
BTW.. I hope you know minutes don’t simply add up to 240 total.
It is minuted per games. It is based on the minutes a player play in a games, and it does not hurt them to register a DNP.
BTW.. I hope you know minutes don’t simply add up to 240 total.
It is minuted per games. It is based on the minutes a player play in a games, and it does not hurt them to register a DNP.Look at last years roster and the total minutes they played. It does not add up to 240, it is higher.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
agaaaaaaaaain
There is a chance that he can play short stints at PF, but quite unlikely that he is going to move over there to provide substantial minutes for Twill
You’re assuming all this is something that we want to done in order to accomodate TWill. You’re focusing too much on TWill. You should question Lee’s or Morrrow’s minutes as much as you do Williams’, who is a VASTLY superior player to those two. But that’s not what you want, so why I’m asking this.
THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT
You responded to this, and I posted this nearly an hour ago.
You only protested the concept behind this after Portland fans concurred that Outlaw was better at PF and played it.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Like I said, I trust Portland Fans..
Who, within minutes, are already confirming what I have been saying. Generic statistical sights don’t really take into account the actual play in the game. Go to the source.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1039202&p=24462270#p24462270
Why are you so hung up on this?
And I guess, what is your point?
To trade T.Will now?
My point is entirely to trade Twill now.
If you are citing basketball expert “rasta_marley” on where Outlaw should play I could imagine someone from Portland citing Ben1 who thinks Twill has Hall of Fame potential (apparently) from our board. It is non-sense. You look at the stats and where Outlaw played in WHAT lineups.
Talking to fans on a blog is about an inaccurate source you can possibly find.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow... That isOne of the Most Assinine Statements I have Heard
You would rather go with generic, computer generated statistics, as opposed to players that saw him play?
Do you watch Portland much?
I’ve heard Portland fans say this about Outlaw for years and they have a love/hate relationship with him.
Why would they lie?
They have nothing vested in him
Look how quickly some teams turn on their players.
I’d much much much rather talk to Portland fans who have watched Outlaw player for years than go by numbers. The only other one I’d rather ask is Nate McMillan or others on the Blazers coaching staff.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
They don’t lie. But all you have to do is listen to NetsDaily to know that the way that people talk about their teams and players if flat out crazy. I have people hear telling me that Twill is the next Jason Kidd or a “mini-Lebron” come on now.
And yes, all I am saying is that to compare Outlaw’s PF play to the Nets you have to look at the details. You have to look at the lineups he was in, see that he played with very good defensive centers opposite him (Hello?!), and that his minutes shifted very strongly from there once Portland got good. This is called THINKING.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.. The People Talk About THEIR players and THEIR teams
Outlaw is NOT a Blazer, and was a very polarizing player.
Strong defensive Centers.. like LMA?
Favors is much more defensive than LMA every dreamed to be, as is Lopez. And since when does Oden even suit up?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You are telling me that Lopez is a better weakside shot blocker than Aldridge? I suppose he is better than Oden as well.
And now Favors is the DOY. Interesting.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh No...
So LMA is a defensive stalwart? Favors will be a better defensive player by his 2nd season, then LMA is currently. LMA is known as being soft.
And yes.. Lopez is better than Oden in all respects.. BECAUSE HE PLAYS.
You cannot be a defensive force from the bench.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You are not getting it. Saying that Oden doesn’t play is immaterial because we are comparing lineups WHEN HE PLAYED. Hello?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.. Any Player Looks Better
Next to a defensive anchor like Oden.
When he plays… How often is that?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at the stats
The 2nd to top minutes at PF lineup Outlaw played was with Oden at Center.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
So, Let Me Ask You
Why didn’t you say anything earlier when I made the suggestion?
Because I was right and proved you wrong?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know what post you are thinking of or referring to. What suggestion?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
When I Said I Would Start a Thread And Ask Portland Fans
You saw that and responded to plenty of other posts in the meanwhile.
Yet you did not complain about the Portland fan’s take until I started posting their thoughts. Why didn’t you say something earlier?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly don’t know what you are talking about. I never talked about Portland fan response, but only looked at it once you directed me to it. The guys I saw talking seemed to have no special thoughts on the matter, nor to have any real awareness of the Nets lineup.
As I said though, people could cite all kinds of bizarre claims about Twill here.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Because He is a Net NOW
Where are all the posters stills singing the praise of our former role players?
Hayes, Simmons, Boone, S.Williams, etc, etc…
We have no vested interest in them and no reason to be biased anymore. If another team asked us about them I think we would be objective.
And I’m the one that said I was going to start a thread about Outlaw asking Portland fans about him, and his ability (or simply did he) play PF.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Because He is a Net NOW
Where are all the posters stills singing the praise of our former role players?
Hayes, Simmons, Boone, S.Williams, etc, etc…
We have no vested interest in them and no reason to be biased anymore. If another team asked us about them I think we would be objective.
And I’m the one that said I was going to start a thread about Outlaw asking Portland fans about him, and his ability (or simply did he) play PF.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And if Golden State traded for Twill they would get posters here telling them they they just got a Mini-Lebron and the next Jason Kidd, and somebody at the Golden State blog would be saying “These Net fans really know their stuff!”
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I Doubt It
I don’t see many
Portland fans telling us Outlaw is awesome
Lakers with Farmar
GSW with Morrow
OKC with Petro
GTech with Favors
on here…
Do you?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is that what blog fans say about one of their players is HIGHLY erratic and can be further from reality than anything else.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm Not Trusting 1 Opinion
There are already 11 or so responses in about an hour, most of which are consistent with one another. That is just the beginning….
Point is….
Outlaw HAS played plenty of PF
Effectively at times
and IMO he will continue to see minutes at PF where appropriate.
Do you disagree with any of this?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He was not effectively playing PF for substantial minutes for the last two seasons, and when he was able to it was enabled by a line up different than ours. At 207 pounds he would be killed on the boards.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, He Was
Acc. to those that actually watch Portland and know Outlaw.
Tell me how much you have watched Outlaw?
And for you to rely on computer models that simply go by PG PG/SG, SG/SF, SF/PF, PF/C C to determine where a player is actually playing the court, makes me wonder why I am debating with you.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched Outlaw much about 3 years ago, and liked him a bit. Always been a fan.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh Really...
You have NBA Pass and stayed up late watching a lot of west coast b-ball huh?
Then you should know he played PF.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
So What Else Do You Want?
I’ve shown you my minutes breakdown.
I’ve show you how Portland fans are confirmed he is better at PF.
I’d like to know what more do you want, and why?
I’d like to know where you are going with all of this, and why?
I was very happy with your minute breakdowns, and I thanked you. I think there are some serious questions about them which I have raised, but I by far would rather discuss specific visions for the team rather than claims like “Twill is going to dominate!” or “Twill is the 3rd best player on the Nets” or some other malarkey.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
kv is missing the point...
No minutes are guaranteed other than Brook and Devin if he is not traded. Beyond that, the Nets are collecting assets and will play the best player at each position.
by rundmc00 on Jul 21, 2010 8:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Its not about guarantees, its about picturing success. How to Twill fans PICTURE his success. What does such a box score look like?
You miss the game, you wake in the morning, you see the minutes played and you say as a Twill fan:
NOW that is how I would like to see it each day.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no expectations...
TWil could end up playing 35 minutes a game and putting up 15/6/6. Or he could be relegated to the bench.
Lee could play 35 minutes a game or he could be the odd man out. Same with Morrow.
The Nets signed 3 smalls that could all be legit NBA starters with the right coaching and progress. Let the best men win and let’s trade the others.
Then you are not necessarily predicting Twill success, and my question was not put to you.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Who Was it Put To?
Did I predict T.Will’s success somewhere?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what happens when you jump into a question.
I have asked the question many times over the days of Twill fans who refused to answer.
If you didn’t predict Twill success, then the question was NOT put to you.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps it was merely the coincidence that you posted a thick post on Twill’s minutes while I had been having a discussion of the topic much further up the thread. I assumed that your answer was a misplaced answer to my repeated questions.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No, My Answer was Not Misplaced
I think it objective and accurate.
I’m not make disclaimers about his play, I;m saying where the minutes will come from.
If anything, your question was misplaced in a thread that has nothing to do with T.Williams.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
PHYSICALLY misplaced.
I had been asking the question PHYSICALLY further up the thread for a while. Your post was posted PHYSICALLY at the end of the thread.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Physically and Aesthetically I Picked The End of the Thread
since
I
did
not
want
my
reply
to
look
like
t
h
i
s
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you were responding to me. I assumed this. But you seem to be ignorant of how the question developed. What can I say.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I Was Sepcifically Resonding
To where he will get his minutes
And laid that out.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not predicting anything except Brook and Devin will play a lot of minutes if they are Nets and healthy...
TWil, Farmer, Lee, Morrow and Outlaw will compete for minutes.
Favors will play as many minutes as he is ready for.
Do you agree on my assessments?
Sure. I put my own prediction up for minutes.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
My thoughts are:
TWil has more chance to play over 30mpg than any small except for Devin since he has the highest ceiling. At the same time, he has the most chance to be traded as he has the highest trade value of anyone on the team except Lopez, Favors and maybe Devin. It says something why teams are most interested in TWil.
So you see something like this:
SG Twill 20, Lee – 18, Morrow 10
SF Outlaw 25 Twill 13, James 10
???
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If TWil hits his ceiling...
He could easily play 30+ minutes between PG/SG/SF. If he continues the last month of last year…we could see Devin or Lee traded and TWil’s role increase.
For instance, if he can really play PG (I do not know he can), maybe we trade Devin and he splits time with Farmer. Or we trade Lee and TWil is the starting SG.
We just don’t know at this point.
Yes. But I am not talking about a fantasy future roster. I am talking about this roster.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think we stay 3 deep through the entire season...
It doesn’t really make sense.
We are agreed.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 21, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
2 Questions KV
Did you watch NJ last season?
Did you see T.Williams play PG?
What Happened To You?
you were responding non-stop.
I have those questions.. in addition to .. what is THE question?
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Browser crashed sorry.
Lost track of what we were arguing about now. My main thought was trying to get some constructive discussion of what playing time should be like if nobody gets traded and we get the performances we generally expect from all the players we have.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
PG – Harris will probably get 30 minutes , Farmar 18
SG – C.Lee will probably get 24 minutes , Morrow 24 , T.Will 0
SF – Outlaw will probably get 30 minutes , D.James 18 , Q.Ross 0
PF – Hump will probably get 26 minutes , Favors 22
C – Lopez ill probably get 35 minutes , Petro 13
-———————————————————————————————
That leaves T.Will with ZERO minutes if everyone is healthy. He will be our Adam Morrison on out title run. He will become proficient at high-fiving , low-fiving , on the side-fiving , fist pumping , oh snap expessions , Beyonce watching , towell waiving , nose-picking , reverse bird-man flapping , etc.
-———————————————————————————————
I think a trade is in order. Lee and Hump for a PF upgrade. Let Favors , T.Will , James , and Morrow get some playing time and continue to develop.
Problem is that T-will is better and has a higher ceiling than
Lee,Farmer, and Morrow, I mean the eye test shows that as well, he basically took over games last year when teams were still hot, thats why I feel if he is still on the team he’s getting over 20 minutes or will be traded, because outside of Harris especially he’s the only one who is elite with the dribble, and creating.
Nets Distrubution of Minutes
Brook Lopez-36
James Singleton-24 Tyrus Thomas type of game he’s 28 Tyrus had interest from Nets.
Travis Outlaw-24
Courtney Lee-24
Devin Harris-36
Terrence Williams-28
Johan Petro-12
Derrick Favors-12
Damion James-12
Anthony Morrow-16
Jordan Farmar-16
Young Vets with Finals Expierence at the 1
Just everything thing a winning team needs great shooting at the 2
Athletic forwards, I cant think of a team more athletic than the Nets at the 3/4.
Two 7 Foot Big with alot of potential at the 5.
Terrence Getting no mintues?
Avery once training camp starts will see Terrence is a 3 who as a role in this team and a big role if he is not dealt. Andre Igoudala Clone!
Humpries is not going to be the starter he plays notthing like Tyrus Thomas.
I like when people are brave enough to sketch things out. Then things can be talked about.
So you have
PG – Harris 36, Farmar 12
SG – Lee 24, Morrow 16, Twill 8
SF – Outlaw 24, James 12, Twill 12
That give Twill 20 minutes right? I can see that.
Am I reading your guess/vision wrong?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I don’t think they paid Outlaw 7 million per , Morrow 4 million per , and Farmar 4 million per to play that low of minutes. Buy maybe I’m wrong.
by strange-brew on Jul 21, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
that's what role players like them
ge ton another team. I mean, since when a guy who makes $4M per is supposed to necessarily play more than 16 minutes? It’s not like if we were paying Morrow $15M a year.
I kinda see it that way strange-brew, but rather suspect that if Twill isn’t traded he will get the James minutes and have a chance to prove himself. If he isn’t lightening in a bottle eventually James will outplay him and take those minutes. That is just my guess.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Good For Him
Not that interested…
1. The cost would be too high
2. He wants to play with a superstar ala LBJ and we don’t have any
3. He could just bolt in 2 years to the Knicks no less
4. He is coming a major injury
5. If he is pouting now, imagine how much he could pout in NJ
6. I’d rather target Deron Williams if Utah plummets
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 21, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
#4 is the biggest problem
last I heard he was still rehabbing.
OKC won’t let him go but I’d glady pay 10$ a month for 2 years for Russell Westbrook.
The nature of his injury has been greatly exaggerated on NetsDaily.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
read it elsewhere
It wasn’t an article on him he was just mentioned “Chris Paul is still rehabbing his knee”. I’ll look for the link.
If only Chris Paul knew Brook Lopez was Tim Duncan sent back in time , Favors will be better than Amare in 2 years , and T.Will will lay the smack down on D.Wade! I shall email him and his agent. We have superstars too!
by strange-brew on Jul 21, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That is stunning.
The Lakers wouldn’t seem to need him (but maybe something for Odom or Bynum). Maybe he’s talking with Kobe. Can’t see the fit there.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Good News
He is not going to be able to dictate terms yet. He has two years left on his contract. Lakers could give Bynum, Magic have nothing, and the Knicks could give Randolph or Galinari and draft picks. Oh, wait. The Knicks don’t have any draft picks.
The Nets should sit it out right now, it’s too early. I would say the Knicks have a good shot, but we can’t compete against the Knicks like that. Our goal is a championship not to beat the Knicks. We have been better than the Knicks for half of my 31 years as a Nets fan. I want a championship, getting one before the other team in New York is a bonus. Sorry, Isaac.
Brook Lopez-36
James Singleton-24 Tyrus Thomas type of game he’s 28 Tyrus had interest from Nets.
Travis Outlaw-24
Courtney Lee-24
Devin Harris-36
Terrence Williams-28
Johan Petro-12
Derrick Favors-12
Damion James-12
Anthony Morrow-16
Jordan Farmar-16
Young Vets with Finals Expierence at the 1
Just everything thing a winning team needs great shooting at the 2
Athletic forwards, I cant think of a team more athletic than the Nets at the 3/4.
Two 7 Foot Big with alot of potential at the 5.
If the Knicks trade for Chris Paul
And then Carmelo goes to the Knicks next summer, it’s a wrap for us….there’s no way we could get ANY attention in this market if the Knicks form a superteam. We may as well go the super young route and pray for Harrison Barnes.
I agree
but I don’t think they will be so lucky. We could outbid them for Paul anytime, but I don’t want to include Favors. We need our own plan, screw the Knicks.
Uh Favors?
Come on now. Always trade potential for proven ability and talent. Favors will in all likelihood never be an MVP candidate (the chances for any 19 year old are thin). Favors is the last thing that would hold me back – but I know we disagree.
Its more that the team has a fabric now, and you just don’t want to tear at it. Favors really isn’t part of that fabric yet.
Just my view.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
The only way I see us getting Paul now
Is we lose Favors and get Paul and Okafor, it would also include a couple first round picks and either Harris or TWill. That wouldn’t leave us with enough. I’de rather wait and let the Knicks overpay now. If they take on Okafor they won’t be able to sign Anthony, even if Curry is included.
I need to see the numbers but, I say wait.
The Magic and Lakers would not be able to absorb Okafor’s contract and Paul’s I don’t believe. And I don’t think the Knicks could either.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
That is our advantage
The Knicks could give Curry back, which would almost be a wash for the Okafor contract. It would just be hard to sign Anthony after that trade. So if Okafor is not included it becomes a straight trade. The Nets have the most draft picks. The Lakers have Bynum, who I wouldn’t want. The Knicks have Randolph and nothing, maybe Gallinari and the Nets could decide what they want to give up. They should wait because right now Favors would have to be included unless they took back Okafor.
Wow the Knicks did good
The Amare signing is looking good and this is what I said. Amare would lead to more players coming there.
Now remember I said he wanted to come there people said it wasn’t true. hahahah
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 10:38 PM EDT reply actions
Aldridge reports that PF Josh Powell is going to sign with Hawks.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I can see the Knicks if they get Paul
getting a 5 seed. Then wait a year for Melo to come and that team is looking good.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 21, 2010 11:04 PM EDT reply actions
That's another thing
The Knicks just signed Felton so they can’t trade him till like November (not sure). The can’t even look into Paul right now. All trade talks are preliminary. Paul won’t get traded to the deadline at the earliest.
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