Dave D: Nets Losers in Free Agency, But There's Always Trades
by Net Income on Jul 18, 2010 9:22 AM EDT
in 2010 Free Agency
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PrintIt's hard to call the Nets anything but losers in free agency, but in his Winners and Losers column Sunday, Dave D'Alessandro points out the window may not be closed for the team.
Calling their signing of four players for a total of $69 million "not much of a haul after selling their fan base that LeBron pipe dream", Dave D then notes, "with some imagination and luck, their present management could easily flip this, because nowadays cap space is more often used to facilitate trades than on free agents."
Among the other losers (we know who the winners are): Richard Jefferson for turning down $15 million and Amare Stoudemire for not bringing Steve Nash with him to New York. Jury's still out on the Knicks, he writes.
- Historic NBA free agency market had big winners and bigger losers - Dave D'Alessandro - Star-Ledger
- Tyrus Thomas Hopes To Live Up To Expectations in Charlotte - Evans Clinchy - NESN
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I Disagree
I don’t remember any other season the Nets got this significant type of FA signings. The bigger picture is that the Nets signed impact role players to compliment what they currently have. Dave D thinks the only way teams will be considered winners is if they had signed one of the 3 kings. I believe, that the Nets became waaaaay better w/ the sigining of the 4 FA’s. Only issue right now is the PF position, but I guess it has been the issue for years since KMart’s departure. I agree with his assesment of the Knicks though, w/o Nash, Amar’e would need to work doubly hard for his points now, Felton is not in the same league as Nash.
Dave D has been slowly painting himself into a corner since he wrote that xenophobic "article"...
…about Prokhorov.
We came out well, and didn’t make signings out of desperation.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
"impact role players": nice phrase!
and accurate too. With the exception of the dubious Petro signing, we got 3 guys who are young, good, and still improving, and have skill sets that were in short supply on the Nets (even Quentin Ross represents SOME improvement as an end of the bench guy, as far as defense is concerned).
But the key word here is “role”….. as in “as needed” or more specifically, 2nd team quality player. MAYBE one or more of them make the transition to starter, but I don’t see a whole lot of leadership emerging from this crop of FAs…. and none of them qualify as “glue guys” (I hate that phrase, but I get it) that King and AJ seem to covet.
We need a big, burly, mean, high scoring, shot-rejecting rebound magnet with EXPERIENCE and LEADERSHIP SKILL at starting PF on this team for the next couple of years.
2nd that
There’s no longer a Boone,Simmons or the guys I hate that I can’t remeber his name.
Every chapionship team I can remeber, had a stronge bench. I we land a superstar player by draft or trade, we will be sitting pretty.
I just beg that they change those out dated uniforms already.
by Zartan on Jul 18, 2010 2:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Knicks are anything but losers
Amare on the hand is an all star, former rookie of the year and all nba type of player.
Now that is a huge improvement for the Knicks. They will and have gain attention from the league and other players who maybe interested in playing with them.
Which is well worth it. After what Lebron Wade and Bosh did do you not see Melo and CP3 joining the Knicks to do the same thing??
Plus the Knicks instead of losing David Lee and getting nothing they traded him for good players.
Ronny Turiaf he is the exact player the Nets are currently looking for to start at PF position and he will likely be coming off their bench.
I feel the Nets were losers only due to their in-activeness.
Now I don’t know what the Nets are doing. One minute we are hearing about how they want to follow the Thunder formula then I hear how important it is for them to trade a young player with potential for a PF that will only be expected for the short term.
That’s the problem are we winning now or developing?
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 9:58 AM EDT reply actions
first of all
…the talk about T-Will being traded is BASELESS NONSENSE started by Dave D, and it’s been hyped up on here by folks that aren’t particularly fond of T-Will. I doubt that the Nets are stupid enough to trade a talented 2nd year player for a stop gap PF, despite the wishes of some folks around here.
2nd, we did quite well in FA. We went after the big fish, and when that fell through, we went out, addressed NEEDS, and still are 14-15 mil under the cap.
Also, it looks like we had a solid draft as well.
I think this offseason has gone well. You can’t be disappointed about Lebron not coming since he was going to Miami since 2008.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
It is not baseless nonsense
and it wasnt started by Dave D’Alessandro.
Don’t blame the messenger. You think he just wrote this without talking to people in the front office? D’Alessandro has written more positive stories about TWill’s bright prospects than anyone. That has changed in recent days. Why?
I have no doubts that the Nets are open to trading Williams since he is not untouchable...
….but for a stop gap, short term solution at PF? Seriously?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
now again
do you question the Nets and their directions???
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I have not seen one credible source that shows that would do THAT
It’s all rumor and speculation, unless i missed something where Avery or King said that they want to dump Williams for Carl Landry or whatever other garbage idea that people have been making up on here.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
"that they would do that"
sorry
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Dave D
actually makes clear in that article that he doesn’t even know if the Nets would be interested in the guys he suggested we should deal TWill for (Landry, Ilyasova, Gibson). It’s speculation.
but he does make clear
they would consider it…and it’s not the first time he’s written it.
He wrote it last week as well.
Landry, Ilyasova and Gibson are the guys Dave D would go after, those names are HIS suggestions
He admits it
No, we haven’t a clue how much Billy and Avery like these three guys. Nor do we know anything that would make them not like these guys, other than the fact that Landry’s 6-9 listing always seemed a bit exagerrated.
And again, I fail to find a single quote that gives that article any credibility.
No one else (not Kerber- the Nets’ most reliable beat writer) not Iannazzone, not Bondy, NO ONE else talks about the possibility of the Nets trading Williams for a PF.
Kerber actually talks about bringing in a vet like Kurt Thomas and then, if there’s success absorbing a bloated expirer like KMart’s or Murphy’s.
Its a good thing Nets didn't take Wesley Johnson, because DJames is same age and may fit the Nets team better.
How is Wesley doing anyway? I thought he wasn’t playing due to a slight muscle pull?
I would settle for taking on Troy Muphy’s $12 million expiring contract at this point, if other cheaper options don’t work out over next 2 months. What do you think Indiana would want for Troy?
He is a Nets killer with his 3’s and Nets do need a BIGGER PF, rather than a smaller one like Brandon Bass. I don’t trust Petro as sole backup for Lopez.
He'd be a good version of Yi
I think you always need a big who can shoot from the outside. I’d give up on all the 2nd rounders they want, but that’s it. He has only one year left in his contract and he’s 30, you don0t give up on significant assets for a player like that, saving them $12M right away should be enough, IMO.
yes it is
No other beat writer has written about that possibility.
And the reasons Dave D gives for a possible trade involving TWill are downright foolish, not as much as the trade scenarios he suggests, and he admits those are players he doesn’t even know if the Nets would be interested in.
He doesn’t quote any souce in that article. He quotes a team source as saying they would have drafted Wesley Johnson if they were willing to pay $10 more million a year to a PF. But he doesn’t quote anyone re- TWill. He’s speculating.
the same way
he quoted a team official as saying a Favors and Harris swap for Paul or a David Lee signing were not happenning. He always quotes sources. He doesn’t when he put together that stupid column about TWill.
I wouldn't be surprise by this move
Do the Nets seem above this?
They just hire Billy King and was he the obvious best candidate or did he just get along with the coach?
Is Avery trying to make sure he has nothing but people backing him this time.
The thing is the Nets are making moves to win but to make Avery comfortable
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not going to toss King under the bus before he even does anything wrong
so I’m not going to assume he’d be stupid enough to do something like Dave D speculated about
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
And if another beat writer would just suggest (using simple logic) that Avery is using his own methods to motivate TWill to get better ...
Then NetsDaily would “run” with that story, which would “kill” the present story of trading TWill for a “stopgap” power forward, who isn’t a star.
Everyone knows that TWill gets a swollen head, with a big smile, if he is given too much praise by his coach.
Here is the problem
The problem is… the NETS… might actually be stupid enough to trade a talented 2nd year player for a stop gap PF. And that is the scary part of the whole season.. It seems more and more that Avery is being biased towards his own “plan”. Not realizing the Twill is a very good piece that he could use in that plan. I sure hope not. Every worse thing that could happen for this offseason has happened.. Whats the worst thing that could happen now??? This! This could happen. And quite possible too!
one thing on this stop gap thing
Good teams have three good big men. The Nets believe they have two in Lopez and Favors, who with some strength could play the five.
Petro is not a candidate to be a good big man. Nor is Zoubek. They are bench guys.
Wish the Nets would wait one more year before making any rash decisions on trading away our young talent. Agree we need 3 excellent bigs to compete for a title, but we likely will have another top 10 draft pick next year and will have another 14 million or so in cap space next summer. Either one could turn into the 3rd big man and we would not need to sacrifice TWill to make it happen.
next yr...unrestricted
horford, marc gasol and landry
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
thats why we should wait
solid bigs next free agency…
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
i would sign craig smith
to a cheap 2 yr deal now
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
good point
but the names being mentioned, outside of Landry, don’t fit the bill IMO.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
whoever they nbring in
will be a bench player who won’t get significant PT in the future. With Brook and Favors (once he breaks out) up front, the PF we bring in now won’t get more than 15-18 min in the future. That’s why a cheap signing (Amundson, Smith) or a 1 year rental of a bloated expirer (Murphy, AK, Martin) would make more sense than losing any asset in a trade for a PF.
and if they believed that
why didn’t they spend the big bucks on a PF like Lee, Scola or someone similar?
this he's not worse than most of the guys we've been linked to targetting
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I'd rather slap Hump in at the 4 and platoon with Derrick and Petro
before going out and trading T-Will for pennies on the dollar.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah it just makes zero sense
even if they really don’t like him, then let him play to build up his value and trade him for an impact piece.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
There's guys available in FA
who weren’t any worse than Yi last year. They could just sign one of them instead of trading for mediocre guys or who guys who will be FA eligible soon.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
By saying that TWill is not a 3,
Avery seems to be consigning him to a backup spot as a 1 or a 2, and probably a deep backup at that. It looks as if Avery is indeed going with his plan, whatever it is, and TWill may very well not be part of it.
and said they want to sign a veteran PG
which sounds to me like they have someone in mind.
King said virtualy the same thing on Friday, that he’d like to sign one or two veteran “glue guys”.
Keyon Dooling is on NBATV as a commentator
Maybe HE is that Minimum Veteran, who would be used as a teacher.
Stoudemire for Lee
may or may not be in the Knicks interest. Randolph could be a big help or he could be another immature kid who will have trouble adjusting to the pressure of New York.
As for Felton, he was overpaid and they had better find a way to cut down on his minutes. D’Antoni burned Duhon out, overplaying him.
Knicks are facing a lot more pressure than the Nets this season. Gallinari has to step up, Stoudemire has to be the Big Dog for the first time in his career.
by Net Income on Jul 18, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly
People are too impressed by flash and sexy signings instead of actual substance.
The Nets went out, signed players that already compliment or will enhance the talent in place. The Knicks closed their eyes and started throwing money into the wind
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
To identify "substance" requires real analysis.
Most people can’t be bothered with understanding simple things like “massive injury risk” or PER.
Knicks fans probably think Amare will win them ten or so more games over a guy like Lee. They are in for a rude awakening.
I don’t know if Amare is going to be as big of an improvement over Lee, but I do think the Knicks did well to get the haul they did for Lee when he was an unrestricted free agent. Turiaf is a good player and he will be their starting center, allowing Amare to play his natural position of PF. Randolph is still only 21 I believe, he is an incredibly talented player but a bit of an enigma. Still, if he was in this past year’s draft, he would likely be a top 10 selection. I’m surprised the Warriors would just give him away, but then again, they are the Warriors. And Azubuke will probably do well in D’Antoni’s offense. The Knicks are setup well to go after Carmelo next summer, and Paul the year after. They were smart enough to put a team option in Felton’s deal after the second year. I wish we had done the same with Outlaw’s deal.
When you think about it, there was no good reason for the Warriors to include Randolph in that sign and trade. From the Knicks perspective, there was no way they were going to re-sign Lee. They sunk 20 million a season into Amare, and they want to maintain cap flexibility going forward for Carmelo. They would like to see Lee get paid after short changing him a couple seasons, but mainly they wanted to ensure he does not sign with the Nets, as Lee is a fan favorite in NYC. Shipping him west accomplished these goals, and getting a couple decent players on cheap contracts in Turiaf and Azubuke would have been extra incentive. The Warriors held all the leverage, yet they agree to include Randolph, when his value on the trade market was very high. Just a short sighted move by the Warriors. And a smart move by Walsh.
Randolph is interesting, but saying his value on the trade market was "very high"
is stretching things a bit.
isn't randolph a headcase????
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if he is a headcase, although I have seen him literally crying on the bench in some instances which isn’t reassuring. But he is 7 feet, runs the floor like a gazelle, and can handle the ball well. I think he will put up numbers in D’Antoni’s offense.
He better not cry while he's on the Knicks
the media will massacre him.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Since when has Randolph been a headcase?
Heard nothing about it. Injuries and being on the warriors (probably related – curse of the warriors, see ekpe udoh) the only things that set him back.
Warriors were willing to trade him before the deadline
because of his poor work ethic. That’s what reports said.
Well they say he's been upset about Don Nelson's sporadic minutes
Can’t really say it’s not something to be upset about. Don Nelson is the bane of fantasy basketball, gives a guy 30 minutes one night and then a DNP the next. Makes point guards play power forward. etc. Crazy stuff
I mean, I'm gonna venture and say he's gonna be the best pickup of the Knicks this summer
In the Knicks system, and Amare’s terrible rebounding, he can most definitely be a double double guy there.
again
you forget to mention we could have lost lee for nothing. so considering walsh was able to get a 21 year old kid with more potential than anyone on your roster to go along with 2 solid players in buike and turiaf that was a steal. anthony ranolphis is a stud. don nelson is an iddiot, we all know that… worse coach in league.
at Chris2
The Warriors didn’t have enough cap space to sign Lee, I believe. So they needed to get a S&T done, and they had to match salaries, so giving up on Randolph was the price to make NY take on Azubuike’s and Turiaf’s contracts.
Didn’t realize they were over the cap so makes more sense now. They wouldn’t have any problem finding takers for Turiaf though (I’d love to have him on Nets) and they could have traded Randolph away elsewhere, not sure about Azubuike. I think they will regret passing on Monroe for like a 23 year old Ekpe Udoh. I just hope they are decent enough for us to get their lottery pick in 2012.
NO WAY. If we had taken Cousins we would never have had the pleasure of living in “potential” land for the next three years, talking about “one day”.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Cousins look slow, fat, and unable to jump in the last game
> the kings forum is over there. I like Derrick Favors.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
"looked"
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Why do people only care about offense!??
Cousins can never be what Favors may be on the defensive side of the ball and we already have a center that may be on his way to a allstar game…feeel me?
well, you have people who watch basketball...
…and people that WATCH basketball, and understand that to win you need defense in the frontcourt, not someone that will not defend and take the ball out of the hands of our soon to be all star center.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I REALLY LIKE WHAT THE NETS HAVE FOR THE FUTRE
if you look at favors, he can be better then bynum defensively.. brook can do most of the things gasol does, we are in good shape for the future if james comes along well and we can grab a allstar 2 guard …we are contenders soon (who knows T-will may turn out to be that guy not saying he is but just saying lol)
if we took cousins
he would be on the bench behind Brook and we still wouldn’t have a PF
by Taylor Bartle on Jul 18, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s playing PF in summer league.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
and got embarrassed by that dude from the Bulls
it’s funny how Cousins’ getting dunked on three times in one game by a undrafted FA is a topic that has been avoided like the plague by some folks on here, but when our kid Favors had a slow start in summer league the word “bust” was thrown around here like a football
dishonesty has been running rampant on NetsDaily lately.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Yes. Much more thinking with “highlight film brain”. Always good to think through Sports Center.
Cousins is (was at least) leading the Kings in Points, Rebounds, Assists and Steals. Hello?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Just watch the dude play through a whole game. Watch him off ball. Watch his outlet passes (which are better than nearly every big man already in the NBA). Just watch him play.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It seemed that way then
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Agreed the Lee trade was phenomenal
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I understand Amare is a step up from Lee but how big? I think Lee did pretty good last year, How many wins will Amare bring them? If Amare was coming to the Knicks and Lee was not there the year before then I understand. But PF was already a position of strength for the Knicks last year so Amare will score a few more ponts, but who was the better rebounder? How many more points did Amare average last year, how many less rebounding? So is those couple points Amare scores going to add 25 wins to next years season?
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Yeah thats my point, they are talking like its a game changer.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Well, Amare is a better player..
and he’s the unknown. They know what Lee is. In their minds, Amare could be anything.
But he can’t be bothered to rebound or play defense. When they realize that’s what he is and that he’s not as efficient without Nash giving him four to six easy points a night, it’s not going to be pretty.
Well if they kept Lee at the contract he signed, they could add a big player between the money they save on Lee and the contract coming off next year.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Lee can be productive without a great PG
and he’s durable. The only reason they gave Amare that contract is because they thought it would bring them LeBron.
Whoops.
LOL @ them
I guess Lebron’s games this summer at least paid off in one department, the Knicks are going to be screwed
I can’t wait to hear the moans and complaints that pour in about Stoudemire. If Knicks fans hated Lee, just wait.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
The signings are a RECORD changer. The Knicks will have a better record than last year, and probably MUCH better. And they will have a better record than the Nets.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
you ASSUME that they will have a better record than the Nets
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably much better?
I’d say it’s more likely they finish within two to three games of last year’s record.
Unless Gallinari does something crazy like turn into Dirk, expect mediocrity.
Or unless Amare turns into an All Star or something. Or unless Felton outplays Douglas or something.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
There going to miss Al Harrington and Nates
Offense Al basically averaged 20, Stoudamire and Lee have similar numbers they are going to need to get that offense from somewhere.
And you assume they won’t. The difference between us is that any possible reality that does not involve something fantastic for the Nets is cut off from you, while both positive and negative assessments seem to be available to me.
The Knicks are a much better team than they were last year.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
and so are the Nets
your point?
You’re just assuming that the Knicks will be better because they signed a “sexy name” in Stoudemire.
I look at both rosters, and I don’t think that the Knicks are superior to us in the slightest. PF is our only hole right now, and that depends on how long it takes Favors to get up to speed. If he’s able to contribute with defense and rebounding, forget about it.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Not at all. It has nothing to do with “sexy”. Amare is much better than Lee. Randolf is amazingly suited for D’Antoni’s system and is full of potential as much as any player in the league. Felton is a huge upgrade at point (and point is a very important position for D’Antoni), and Turiaf is a gritty, hardnose player. Gallo will most definitely improve (he is still learning and young), And Chandler and Douglas also should be expected to improve. As a point of fact they will be better at every position, and at some positions WAY better.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
offensively obviously
Stoudemire does flashy dunks you know. Who needs rebounding and defense when a guy can posterize someone
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
okay
first of you clearly did not watch the knicks last year because david lee as much as i love him is one of the worst defensive players i have ever seen and all die hard knick fans will agree. the guy hardly ever will contest a shot, let alone block one and not to mention hardly ever draws a charge.
amare brings toughness a presence of a superstar. no pf wants to guard STAT. amare will help instill confidence in the locker room bc of his history. we needed amare. lee as much as i like him, will drop off this season.
Lee will disappear on GS. It was the last time you will hear from him without the NY media pumping the message of his hidden talents. Good bye David Lee.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
the guy hardly ever will contest a shot, let alone block one and not to mention hardly ever draws a charge.
Congratulations, you also unwittingly described Amare Stoudemire. He also won’t rebound.
But he’ll dunk on a few guys, that should make you happy.
Like seriously, is this a joke?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The key to understanding how much better Amare is is understanding that Amare DEMANDS a double team and Lee doesn’t at all. It completely contorts a defense, and is an invaluable measure of the importance of a player.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And my point is the Knicks had a substantially better record than the Nets LAST year, and also have substantially improved. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that there record will be better than the Nets. I know Net fans are not allowed to think these things, but looking at things soberly worth doing sometimes as a fan.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
First of all...
….the Nets were a mess from the front office down last season, and that contributed to the horrible record, whether you want to admit that or not. I could care less about the Knicks’ record last year, I know that they did lose to us twice, once by blowout. The Nets have significantly upgraded in several areas of need. If you think that the Nets will be flirting with a 70 loss season again you are in for a rude awakening.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you telling me that the Nets are going to beat the Knicks twice next year, or are you telling me that the Nets are going to have a better record?
The fact that you are citing TWO GAMES in a 12 win season last year in order to predict how the Nets record is going to be tell me alot about the place you are coming from.
Soooooooooo….what is the Nets’ record going to be next year? How about a number.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
all depends on harris IMO
if he plays the WHOLE SEASON and plays well, nets are fighting for last playoff spot. if harris gets hurt…..
by ILikeSports on Jul 18, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
So give me two numbers. One with Harris all year, and one with Harris for 30 games.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
ouch
if Harris misses signifigant time like that, i agree the Nets will win around 20 games.
If he plays at ALL STAR level, i will say 35 –
thats with the current roster.
i’d love to say more but Brook is not quite an All Star yet and i can’t find where the points are really coming from
by ILikeSports on Jul 18, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think 35 is a reasonable number – though I don’t think that Harris is going to be an Allstar.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I see him and lopez combining for 35 ppg
but i am struggling to find a total of 40-50 from the rest of the team
outlaw is really the only scorer we added
and he’s been inconsistent
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
morrow is a shooter
a scorer is someone who creates for themselves and can score in pretty much any fashion. Morrow is a spot shooter, the guy who if you get him the ball on the perimeter he’s going to knock down the shot, he’s not a guy who’s going to put up 15-20 a night. Scorer’s aren’t one dimensional.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
no one that can consistently be expected to put up double digits
everyone else is 5-12 points a game max
Lol how much points a game will we need?
lets say it goes like this
Harris (17-20)
T-will(12-15)
Brook (20)
outlaw(12-15)
thats basically 70 points with out mentioning the PF and bench players or C. Lee (we will get the points) and we will be soilid defensively
twill is fun to watch against bench players
but 15 ppg is unrealistic
everyone is inconsistent
outlaw has a lot to prove
hey i hope you are right and he wins 6th man of the year
but he is not a great shooter and probably won’t get the minutes to score that much. there are many wing players on the team
If he doesnt get the Minutes thats a Diff story
But to say he can only score against bench players is redic… he put up 21 on the cavs and gauarded Lebron basically the whole night..averaged 14 over the last 2 months as a rookie hes only goin to get better
that was his career high and they were down 20 the whole game
and they had Hickson as their starting center.
look TWill will contribute in many ways – mostly drive and dish – but we will need reliable points night in and night out to win games
TWill averaged 14.1 ppg
in the last 2 months of the season, so I don’t think what nwkiddnj said it’s far fetched at all.
I'm not using the two wins over NY to predict our record
I’m putting that out there because you seem to think that the Knicks are substantially superior to us because…..they spent $100 million on Amare Stoudemire.
I’ll make my prediction in due time, btw.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What I told you was NOT that the Nets are going to flirt with 70 losses. What I told you was that the Knicks are going to have a better record, and perhaps a substantially (+10 wins) better record.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
And what leads you to believe that?
Our team IMO, aside from PF, is deeper and more talented.
But you don’t want to admit that, but that’s fine. Have fun singing the Knicks praises.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Aside from PF???? PF was a huge weakness last year.
What makes me think it is that the Knicks had a substantially better record last year, and substantially improve in the off season.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say at this point
they’re just as good if not better at sf/sg
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
An honest Net fan.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I agree it's a record changer
but they’re comitting 5 years to a player who’s probably already peaked and has 1-2 peak years left. And it’s highly unlikely in those 1-2 years they’ll be able to bring in enough talent for them to do much than be a second round team. Investing in Amar’es short term makes sense for a team that’s one piece away, because even if you overpay in the long-term the difference he’ll make in those first two years will be worth it. For teams like us and the Knicks, who are way more than one piece away, it just doesn’t make any sense to make that long-term investment for the right to be a second round team for 2 years.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I don't think he's a bum
I just don’t think big men usually stay all that productive after the age of 30. He probably won’t fall off a cliff but he’ll be getting worse as his contract gets more expensive.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Although on the other hand all that time he missed with the
knee injury might actually be a blessing in disguise. Since he doesn’t have a full ten years of basketball on his legs like most guys who came out of high school would at this point.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Lets keep it real
If AMare signed to a team that didnt run the kind of system the Knicks run (for that much money) the fans of that team would have been jumping off buildings… hes a bum no defense and doesnt Rebound
eh i think it's much to say he doesn't rebound
it’s not like he’s a 4 who’s only averaging 5-7 rebounds a game. And I imagine the suns system has something to do with that because they make a high percentage of their inside shots, the highest percentage in the league in 08-09 I can’t find the numbers from 09-10, and fifth highest on jump shots, so his offensive rebound totals are going to be lower than average because more of their missed shots are going to be long misses, and thus long rebounds.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
in fact according to 82 games
their shooting guards and small forwards were both in the top 5 in rebounds for their positions in 08-09, which I think kind of supports the idea of a lot more long rebounding opportunities than the average team.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
So what happens on the defensive end of the floor? and the suns also put up more shots then a usual team so that should mean more misses also
No defense and doesnt rebound
He's a mediocre defender
but so is Brook, and I’m pretty sure we’re going to give him max when his contract is up (And so was Lee to that point.)
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Brook will rebound and block some shots... No?
either way you spin it Amare is not a guy you pay that much money to
Huh?
Brook doesn’t rebound or block shots at higher rates than Amar’e.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Brook is alot longer than Amare he can bother alot more shots than Amare averages almost a block more then amare a game
and are you kidding, yes brook does do a better job at rebounding then Amare. dont let the stats fool you
We're going to give him the max because he's a 23 yo true center
with a post game. In a world where Brendan Heywood gets ridiculous money. You can expect Brook to improve in those areas and if he doesn’t, he’s still worth it.
Offensive PF’s like Amare who show no desire to play defense are unremarkable, IMO.
Which means that the Nets are going to lock up their salary cap with a MAX player who isn’t a dominant HoF type championship player. They will pay him because he is home grown and is as you say, a Center of fine talent. But he in all likelihood is not a Championship horse, a guy that you can hitch your team to and just let him take you there. It is precisely for this reason that the Nets Championship hopes are quite at risk, even this early in the game.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Brook rebounds and block shots
and attempts to play d, unlike Stoudemire who can’t be bothered. Awful comparison, sorry.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes I feel like answers should be given like this:
Q: Who do you think is better Net player X or Other team player Y?
A: Net player X, are you crazy?!!
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Um Brook and Stoudemire
rebound at the same rates.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
and block shots at the same rates.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Who needs facts?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He doesn't rebound well enough for someone with his athleticism and leaping ability.
The numbers say he’s mediocre. Watching him play so many games over the years, I would have to agree with them. The effort isn’t always there, either.
It would be almost impossible for Amare to only grab 5-7 boards a game in that offense regardless of how many threes the Suns put up.
LOL
we will not miss al chuckets. he was a hard worker and i love al from a personal standpoint, but his style of play isn’t conducive to winning.
WAIT! I DIDN'T GET TO SAY MY PART!
Amare was an All-Star last year. Just like Tracy McGrady and Allen Iverson.
by Taylor Bartle on Jul 18, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
And just like Brook Lopez…oops. I guess he didn’t make it.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Posting and Toasing is over that way bro
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I guess he did make it.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Gina, I think you are right on in this. The difference between the Nets and the Knicks (and whether they needed Amare is a difference in histories. The Knicks set their course when they decided two years ago to strip the team down and be horrible for two years in an effort to get Lebron. (Actually it was probably decided long before that when they let Ewing go, but that is another story.) When the Knicks did that they were forced to go for broke on this FA class.
The Nets on the other hand have taken the Thunder road. Build young and talented. The problem with the Nets though of course is that they have taken the Thunder road without a Durant, which is a road to permanent mediocrity. Unless they get a HoF type player in the draft (or though some miracle of developed potential), the Nets have a dead end ahead in terms of Championships.
The Knicks on the other hand struck out as well. While the Nets failed to have their Durant, the Knicks failed to have their Lebron. Their only way forward is to negotiate some crazy trade next year, and add a HoF player to their squad (Paul or Mellow). It probably isn’t going to happen, but its the road they are on.
So you have the Thunder without Durant vs. a team with a perennial Allstar and dominant frontline player. Both teams are not likely to win a Championship. The big difference will be a difference in time. For the next few years the Knicks are just going to be a better team, like it or not, and then when the Nets’ youth develops more the pendulum will swing.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
how do u figure
the nets youth will develop, but the knicks wont.
Gallinari and Randolph are STUDS. not to mention, douglas, chandler, buike…..
You raise a good point, but by my reading Randolph – though immensely talented – has got some problems that will keep him from blossoming consistently. He has top ten in the league type talent but it is really unsure if it is even going to get to top 50. And Gallo also has question marks with his back and overall game. He has flashes, but only the NY media has made him a star in waiting. I’m not saying that they can’t develop, but the Nets strike me as more loaded with long term potential. By the time the Knick youth are developed Amare will be on the downside of his career, unfortunately, while the Nets with Lopez (and some yet to be added piece that fits in the salary cap chunk) will likely be on the rise.
Its just the way I see it, I could be wrong of course.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
thunder approach?
who’s kevin durant? who’s russell westbrook?
devin harris is 27, the same age, as Amar’e, and the Knicks average age is 24.1.
The only young “stud” the Nets have is Brook Lopez.
what do you mean “who’s durant?”
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
how are the nets taking the thunder approach
when they have no superstar to build around and one good player?
You DIDN"T READ what I wrote. I called it the Thunder approach without a Durant. In otherwords, a deadend.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem with the Nets though of course is that they have taken the Thunder road without a Durant, which is a road to permanent mediocrity.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I do agree
that this is the Nets best free agency, but you have to consider: 1) what they were shooting for and 2) they had so much money…and much more attractive assets to lure free agents than ever before: cap space, new owner, new arena(s), new coach, etc.
the thing about the Nets
is they have never sign a major free agent.
Now after the Nets basically having everything going right.
A new Coach, a new owner, a new arena and new city.
These factors still not appeal to the major free agents.
People still and only saw “Nets”
The Nets will have to do minor improvements until they draft a franchise type player.
As for the Knicks I agree they are under pressure but at the same time lets say this Amare moves leads to Melo and leads to CP3 then it was a good risk.
I do agree Amare has benefited as many have from Steve Nash.
There was a difference between Amare playing with a two time MVP and Starbury.
Nash help Boris with MIP and a new contract. How has he been with the Bobcats.
Look at Frye and Richardson. Is it coincidence that they had their best seasons playing with Nash.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 10:09 AM EDT reply actions
Well it is Newark IMO, even though it is a awesome place people are scared to be in Newark, I don’t know why it is not that bad in most places. In Brooklyn it will be a lot different.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I don't think the Nets lost any free agent because of Newark? LeBron wasn't coming anyway, because he couldn't convince Bosh.
Okay, maybe if Nets were in Brooklyn, then Bosh would have taken Nets more seriously, and could have brought LeBron along.
But then if Nets expected that to happen, then why draft Favors?
I don’t think any other free agent Nets sought, other than Bosh, was affected by the Prudential Center.
Thorn was just too cheap. He shouldn’t have expected anyone to take a discount to play for Proky.
I always defend Newark. Are you saying Brooklyn would have the same draw as Newark?
Since the face been revealed the game got real
People in the media were saying if Nets were moving into Brooklyn, then LeBron would have considered Nets highly.
I don’t think it should should have been a big factor, because as long as he won just one championship in Brooklyn, LeBron would have been remembered as King of Brooklyn, with a statue to rival Jordan’s.
LeBron was motivated by the need to win 6 championships, not in Chicago. Miami was his best option for that and Nets should have been 2nd (with Bosh or DWade as teammates).
Clearly, the Nets improved themselves much more than the Knicks and aren't done yet.
Of course the Nets are starting from a lower point, but even with only minor upgrades with their Bigs, they should win 30-38 games, whereas I don’t expect the Knicks to win more than 30 games this year, assuming Amare has a healthy year.
And the Knicks will try to give people false hope that they will sign a MAX deserving free agent – which is Bogus since they will be above the Cap soon and only 11 million is coming off and they don’t have draft picks to get better.
If the Knicks start out say 5 and 15, all hell will break loose.
we have a solid bench for yrs to come…
as for our starting line up, we need to fill it up with stars…i dont know if that’ll happen through free agency next yr or through draft or trades…
we need that franchise player!! every good team needs one…a jason kidd type, a kevin durant type,etc….once we find our franchise player, then nets will succeed again.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Did you know
that Morrow is the best three point shooter in NBA history? His percentage, 46.0%, is higher than Steve Kerr’s current career best record of 45.4%. The only reason Morrow isnt in the record books is that he doesnt have enough attempts to qualify, but once he takes his ninth three point attempt next season, he will have enough attempts…500.
i love the free agents we signed…every one of them…
but we still need that guy…the man on the team…the FRANCHISE PLAYER
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
it's coming Andy
be patient bro. Something will give.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably we need two
MJ and Pippen; Kobe and Gasol; Kobe and Shaq; Dwayne and Shaq; Duncan and Robinson; Duncan and Parker; KG and Allen and Pierce; Bird & McHale; Kareem and Magic, etc.
nope only one
we have harris and brook…
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
something will give?
why?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
well, you can continue to think negatively about the situation, and assume we won't improve or make moves
I on the other hand, see a team with cap space, picks, and tradeable assets, and players that aren’t locked into bad deals(jury is out on Outlaw). Something will give, in my opinion.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think there are moves to be made
how is that negative? It’s realistic.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
okay Gina, we’re going to stay the same for the next 3 years, and not attempt to make any trades or moves. This roster is how we’re going to look like for years. I suppose that if we had signed a bunch of d league talent, and done everything in our power to tank this season, you’d have a better view? Serious question
Being realistic also means being patient and waiting to see where we go next…..but I think that your negative view towards Avery and King also adds to your pessimism, but I’ll let you tell it.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say we won't attempt
I said it’s unrealistic to think there will be any moves to be made. Which is true. Very rarely do actual impact players move.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
You don’t just blindly assume we are going to improve, any more assume the opposite. You frame an opinion based on sober assessment.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
it's called being patient and waiting to see what will be done next
….and not assuming that we are about to engage in a course of epic fail solely based on the facts that we a) chose to fill needs on our roster with good roleplayers instead of further demoralizing this franchise by purposely tanking another season and b)hired Billy King.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Gina understands the fundamental structure of the NBA. If you don’t have a HoF superstar (or really 2) you are NOT going to win a Championship.
So, what is your aim? A Championship, or to have a nice run of playoff appearances? If its the latter, sure, there is a lot to get excited about. it ain’t happening this year, but maybe next year.
But the facts of the matter are that if you want to build a team for a C, there are a limited number of ways of doing it. One of them is being bad enough to draft high.
One of them is NOT filling your team with good role players and watching your cap space being eaten up by talented but not dominant HoF type players, and waiting to see what happens.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
In 50 years in the NBA it is the ONLY TEAM to have done that (and Billups remains to be seen). The team was stacked with hardcore Allstar talent the likes of which the Nets are not even close to having.
Sooooo. You are basing your plan on how to build a team for a Championship on a 1/50 year anomaly, and ALSO on building a team that has NO WHERE near the talent of the two Wallaces in their prime, Prince, Billups and Hamilton.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Wallace and Billups
were HOF capable. Wallace was just a moron and Billups took a while to develop. If Wallace had played the majority of his career the way he played under Larry Brown he would be going to the Hall.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
And it is forgotten now, but Ben Wallace was a defensive monster.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You obviously did not read the context of the discussion.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty cool stat. Too bad he won’t get his ninth 3-pointer until mid-season (if the Twill fans get their way and bury him on the bench for Mini-chosen One.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
please
i think that everyone who cheers for this team wants to see Morrow get PT regardless of Williams. Morrow is going to help Brook make the all star team.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea WHO the Twill fans are going to sit on the bench in order to get him his 30 minutes to show off his incredible triple double skills, but among those who would have to sit on the bench would be Morrow. And as good as Morrow shoots, he can’t hit 3 pointers from the bench.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
you don't make any sense
Forget about your dislike for Williams for a second and think about this…the nets need shooting on the perimeter to open up the floor for Harris and Lopez(and to an extent, Williams as well). WHY wouldn’t Morrow play?
This whole debate is getting stupid. Lets wait until we see how Avery wants to use both of them before getting into this kind of stuff, hmm?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
He wouldn't play because Outlaw
and C.Lee can shoot from the perimeter, and play defense. And if they’re giving minutes to those 2, plus Harris, plus T-will, where does Morrow fit in?
I mean I agree anything can happen, but at some point you have to realize minutes are finite. And with Famar seeming to be the primary 1 back up it’s basically going to be splitting 44 minutes between C.Lee, Williams, Outlaw and D.James at 2 position.s
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
And all of them need to get significant minutes
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
again:
This whole debate is getting stupid. Lets wait until we see how Avery wants to use both of them before getting into this kind of stuff, hmm?
If T-Will is the odd man out, then something will happen. Until then, i’d rather wait to see what Avery is going to do with his players instead of just speculating about dudes getting benched or the Nets making god awful trades for mediocre PF’s
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Posting on a basketball blog in the middle of July is all about speculation.
Unless you think its about everyone gathering around and saying how good everyone is going to be just by virtue of being on the Nets.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, that's exactly the point kv.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Dang Favors is gunna be a BEAST!’
Shucks, Twill is like Vince Carter and Lebron and Kidd combined!
Lopez is like a skinny Duncan, he’s gunna RULE!
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is WHY the Nets are shopping TWill. I know everyone wants the Mini-chosen One to be the savior of the Nets season, but Morrow is going to have to play to produce spacing on the floor and open up the post for Brooks, and Lee is going to have to play due to Avery’s love of defense and the PG position is locked. Outlaw is the starting small forward. It means that Twill is at best cleaning up SG and maybe SF minutes, and Twill HATES it will his skills are not being recognized, meaning, the potential for clash between Twill and Avery is rather high…
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
How many minutes are you predicting TWill will play?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
40 a night, obviously...
….sigh…..
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Brook Lopez and Devin Harris should love this signing
Lopez will look like a kid in a Disney store when he gets the ball on the block and realizes that the opposing defenders have to stay home, unless they want to feel the sting of three point bombs burning the net
This is going to go down as one of the best FA signings in this franchise’s history when it’s said and done, IMO. Anthony is no Ron Mercer, but good lord can the kid shoot.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
The reason the Nets may have failed in free agency is that they gave everyone the clear impression they really wanted Boozer or DLee.
Proky even predicted Nets would get Boozer or DLee, and as it turns out, their pricetag was not really higher than should have been expected.
If the word was that Nets would have drafted Wes Johnson, if they expected to pay 10+ million in cap space for a PF was true, then why was Thorn negotiating such figures with Boozer and DLee’s agents?
Obviously it wasn’t true and Thorn LOST, by delaying due to LeBron and by being too cheap.
DLee is only getting 10.5 million in year 1 and about 16.1 million in year 6.
DLee wanted to play for Nets, and clearly the Nets wanted him (even if they try to deny it after the fact).
Nets and Proky did SCREW UP, by only giving 1st class recruiting to LeBron and his sidekicks.
Proky, Avery and Thorn should have personally interviewed the Nets 2nd choices and made them feel wanted – AT THE SAME TIME AS WAITING FOR LEBRON TO DECIDE. Meanwhile Warriors and Knicks were working behind the scenes as was Chicago with Boozer.
Although WE didn’t know LeBron’s thoughts, Nets should have known LeBron wasn’t coming. They could have had one of their 2nd choices signed up BEFORE LeBron’s decision – in particular David Lee, who would have worked out well, along with Brook and Derrick.
If Nets had signed DLee, then Nets would have gained immensely vs. Knicks, on and OFF the court and the sign outside of MSG would be very appropriate.
Nets and about 25 other teams have NO chance to win a championship in next 4-5 years. By convincing themselves that David Lee isn’t good enough, Nets may have also lost out for chance to become an ELITE team.
Being an Elite team isn’t that bad. I would prefer to be a fan of the Mavericks than Miami over the past 6 years. I disagree with Proky’s philosophy and he will regret not making Nets into an Elite team.
they surely talked to Boozer
but I dont think they ever gave Lee an offer. And their offer to Thomas, $7 million to start, was less.
They were constantly talking with Lee's agent, it was written, so figures should have been discussed. Denying after the fact is typical.
That figure by Lee’s agent rose to about $76 million (over 5, it was written somewhere) at the end and everyone knew it would take at least $10 million to start (which is about $70 million over 5 years).
They had to be only a few million apart (over 5 years) at some point in discussion. Knowing Thorn always tries to get a good deal (see how little he paid Avery!), explains why he lost out. With the extra pressure, especially Kings and Knicks (and his agents said there were about 5 teams interested.
There should be no denying that if more interest was shown, DLee would have been less inclined to take his Model/hopeful Actress girlfriend to San Francisco. A player goes where he is wanted. Nets obviously wanted DLee, but Thorn was too cheap and didn’t recruit hard enough with either DLee or Boozer.
this is bunk, sorry jerry.
None of the 2nd tier FA’s were worth killing our salary cap over. They did not screw up
If the Nets have no chance to win a championship in the next 4-5 years what would be the point of spending massive cash on Boozer, who is prone to injury and gets killed by other big men, or Lee, who is a good player but can’t play defense either?
Signing someone because they have a popular name does not mean that it is a good idea. Maintaining flexibility is a must now. This is where certain teams begin to fall down the ladder while others start rising up. We want to be a team on the RISE when the time is right, not stuck in mediocrity because we behaved like desperate fools and signed Carlos Boozer to the max just to make it seem like we “won” in free agency.
We amassed a significant upgrade in talent this offseason via the draft in free agency. We have cap room, assets to trade, and all of our picks. We are on the right course. Patience and prudent decisions will lead the Nets to a championship, not rash moves.
BTW, your boy Cousins…he cannot defend 4’s in the NBA. Those highlights against Chicago’s summer league team were embarrassing.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
samardo samuels did all he wanted
samuels in a NJ guy(undrafted) and should find a NBA team to sign with soon
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
The point is that winning a championship is a hopeless dream and most Nets fans would rather have an elite team for 4 of the next 5 years than a borderline playoff team always waiting for the opportunity to make a big move ..
that still wouldn’t result in a championship.
And yes, the 4 pickups were obviously good, especially with DJames from the draft.
And I didn’t really want Boozer, whose addition might have resulted in trading Favors for little, but obviously Thorn apparently ready to spend at least 75 million for Boozer.
At this point I wouldn’t mind absorbing Troy Murphy’s expiring salary, and re-evaluating next year.
Thorn was ready to give Boozer....
….75 mil if it would have brought Lebron James to the Nets.
Thankfully, we didn’t play ourselves for fools.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Thorn had any way of knowing if signing Boozer for $75 million would have brought in James.
Maybe he thought that one of James’ associates would have given some “signal”?
If Thorn was prepared to pay $75 million for Boozer, then he must have felt that either Favors would take a long time to develop (Favors would be 23 after five years) or that Favors was probably going to be traded at some point after signing Boozer.
What I do know is that David Aldridge, immediately after Chicago signed Boozer, was expecting Thorn to ink a deal with David Lee by the next afternoon. He said so on NBATV along with Frank Isola. Aldridge is pretty well in tune with what was going on. Thorn was serious about David Lee and Lee wanted to stay in New York area and play PF.
If it was Billy King at the helm, he would have consulted with Dmitry and others and probably grabbed at the chance at becoming an Elite team after 1-2 years.
Go back to the day that it was made clear that none of the 1st or 2nd tier guys were coming here
there was a specific reason as to why the Nets got into a small bidding match with the Bulls over Boozer.
Do you think that Thorn was really stupid enough to max out CARLOS BOOZER without the idea that Lebron might follow?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
that's why Dave D's
Free agent analysis was amatuer. I would expect a professional writer to understand that sometimes doing nothing is better than overpaying for a sexy name. actually holding on to legit cap space should be viewed as doing ‘something’. i consider it a win to completely revamp a tired, beat roster with young, skilled role players all while holding onto a substantial piece of cap space (in addition to what appears to be a solid draft).
I would expect a professional writer to understand that sometimes doing nothing is better than overpaying for a sexy name.
I’d also expect my fellow fans on here to understand that as well, but looks like that’s not the case.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
the nets didnt get the biggest stars, but they got some got star potential at a very good price, in both Farmar and Morrow, Farmar didnt get to show off much on a deep LA roster, and Morrow is a 3pt assassin, i dont like the amount of the Outlaw signing, and thought we could get better players for a better price than Petro ( but since darko set the market i realized every bigs value went up) , the nets really won through the draft, DJames will show it right away and Favors in about a half of a season, I think the only think the nets lost were the big 3, other than that they have kept to a legit rebuilding plan, and are not trying to make huge splashes to ruin their chances of creating a championship caliber team, This is going to be a very professional organization now
veterans to consider
joe smith,brian scal, theo ratliff, kurt thomas,etan thomas, anthony johnson, earl boykins
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
We’ll see. Scalabrine has repeatedly said that he’d like to stay in Boston next season, but the interest on the other end isn’t so clear. If the Celtics option doesn’t work out, Scal could always return to New Jersey or take a look at a Sixers team that’s expressed some interest.
Could Veal be that veteran glue guy Billy was talkngi about?
Veal?
Um, I like Veal but god no
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Etan Thomas
I think he will the nets Avery and King want a veteran Power Foward/Center and he is your guy he hasn’t signed because he would like a 2year 6 million contract, and no1
has theat money to spend. He had a good run with Oklahoma city.
I AM VERY VERY HAPPY!!!
That we did not grab,Lee,Boozer or Amare’… you dont thrown money out to those guys when you may have to resign > Lopez, Favors and maybe T-Will to big contracts. More so if you think Favors is the Future and has a higher ceiling then all 3 of them combined!
After thinking about it
doesnt it make sense to start Morrow?
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
I like Lee's defense in the starting line up.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Avery made some promises
to Farmar and Morrow and Lee. Might have made one to Petro too about the 4.
It was obvious that UNLESS we got Thibodeau, Jackson, or Calipari, LeBron wouldn’t so much as consider us.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Jul 18, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
ESPN’s Chris Sheridan thinks Lee is expendable:
http://sports.espn.go.com/newyork/nba/news/story?id=5383365
The acquisition of Morrow and the focus on the continued development of Terrence Williams would seem to make Courtney Lee nearly as expendable as Yi Jianlian was last month, when the Nets dumped him on the Wizards and got back Quenton Ross.
It’s just more speculation.
He also believes we could use Hump’s and Ross’ expirer with some picks in a trade:
Perhaps the greatest assets King has at his disposal are the expiring contracts of Kris Humphries ($3.2 million) and Ross ($1.15 million) plus a pair of future draft picks acquired from Golden State (a top-seven-protected first-rounder in 2012 and a second-rounder in 2011) in a commendable fleecing pulled off by assistant GM Bobby Marks in a July 22, 2008, trade that sent washout Marcus Williams to the Warriors.
The Nets also have Miami’s second-round pick in 2012 (take a guess: No. 59 or 60?) and Chicago’s 2012 second-rounder, the latter of which the Nets received in the trade last month that sent Chris Douglas-Roberts to Milwaukee.
everyone would rather do that
but you have to realize that other teams dont want them
we're not going to make any trades
we’re going to stay the same, and not make any kind of moves even though we have enough assets, picks, and cap space to do so.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't matter how many assets you have
if there’s no one to trade for. We can’t trade for air.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
PG – Farmar
SG – Lee
SF – Carmelo Anthony
PF – Favors
C – Lopez
by Air Force 1 on Jul 18, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
lmao man would i love that but i dont think its happening...
whats the line-up with guys we have on our roster now
I know its a pipe dream but you never know. The NBA’s crazy. Who would have thought Lebron, Wade and Bosh would team-up together in their prime?
Denver might have a bad start this season, then Melo will start demanding for a trade. Denver might also not want to experience the same hoopla Cleveland, Phoenix and Toronto suffered this off-season where those teams got essentially nothing for their star players.
If Harris returns to all-star form, he can be packaged with draft picks, cap relief and their choice of young players except Favors.
by Air Force 1 on Jul 18, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
and i quote
melo is dieing to play in NYC. not brooklyn not jersey, nyc. via broussard who predicted this whole trio to miami.
Umm u havent left yet?
Ok take Melo.. Lets say Favors is a monster like we think he will be how will the knicks contend with brook and favors? dont think u can and if we land a big Freeagent we will be a contender.. you landed ur big freeagent ur still on the outside looking in at the playoffs buddy
favors
is years away from contributing from an offensive standpoint if he is not a bust, which i think he is. melo will be a fa next year, he is not waiting for favors to possibly develop. melo wants the bright lights. brooklyn is not nyc, get that through your skull. amare and melo and best friends. get that through your skull too. we are making the playoffs. anthony randolph was a huge acquistion. i love this kid.
anthony randolph
has more potential than favors and it isnt even close.
Anthony Randolph
More potential than Favors smh we will see, but Randolphs career hasn’t started off that well in my eyes, while Favors is about to just turn 19.
and
anthony randolph turned 21 this week…..
and please there is no comparison between the potential of ranolph and favors. randolph has wayy more potential and not to mention we could have lost lee for nothing.
How??
What does Randolph do that well, in my eyes he’s to small to play PF and not talented enough to play SF. While Favors is a big dude already and probably still growing, athletic, big hands with a soft touch.
lol
not talented enough to play sf…. stops reading.
anthony randolph is one of the most gifted players in nba. he gained 20 lbs btw….. up to 240. he can play multiple positions. accroding to mike he can play 2 – 5. i personally see him as 4/5.
derrick favors is not nearly as athletic as randolph.
reports
say he has gained 20 lbs. ive read in some places he is 230 in others he is 240. either way he gained 20 lbs. if you want i can post the links.
plz post the report
all i see is 210-225 the highest… but if you have the “report” i will take the time to look it over with u
here
http://www.warriorsworld.net/adressing-the-anthony-randolph-trade-talk/
if you read this it says he is at 230 lbs. but this is from the beginning of june. i have read others say he is at 240. either way 240 is perfect for him and if he is at say 230 now he has plent of him to get to 240 anyway. he is not 210…. idk where u saw that.
One of the more talented players in the league huh?
So why didn’t Nellie like him if he was so talented?? Why did they feel keeping Brandon Wright was more important than Randolph??If he is 240 Favors is 270….Mike played Bill Walker at the 4 last year so it doesn’t matter what he thinks about positions.
Agree on Randolph. Don’t know if he will pull it together, but for a site that thinks Twill is a Mini-chosen One based on potential, Randolph is out of this world as far as skills and body go.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Listen Mallo... Randolph has no shot.. he will get banged up by favors if he even tries to get close to the basket and would get pushed around by favors if he tries to post him up
He is a kevin Durant wanna be with no shot… if he gets a jumper then come talk to me.. yes he has potential but he is not a better prospect then Favors
huh?
randolph more potential than favors?…thats a good one, ha
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
I sense that you have not watched him play.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
favors is 18 yrs old
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Being 18 years old does not grant you All Star “potential”. A lot of guys are 18 years old. And when I tell you that it seems that you have not watched him play, I meant you have not watched RANDOLPH play.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
i have…hes good. I think randolph is the knicks best offseason acquisition…
but i rather have favors than randolph
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Based on nothing other than being a Net fan
and wanting everything Nets to succeed.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
ur a knick fan?
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
I am a realistic Net fan. I think being a fan is thinking hard about how the team can realistically improve, and not about calling trash (or potential trash) “fantastic”.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
u dont like favors right?
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Favors has shocked me with how remedial he is. And Cousins has shocked me how skilled and instinctive he his. Favors lacks a ton of things that are very hard to learn at this level in the league. His potential remains because of his physical gifts, but basketball is more than the ability to jump and dunk.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
no he's just not blindly bias
like so many nets fans seem to be
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I'de rather have Favors
Favors is your classic four. The reason why people are comparing him to Amare and Garnett is that he fits the same profile. Randolph is a 3/4, these player are not USUALLY championship players because they at best are not big enough to play the four or athletic enough to play the three.
I think Randolph has a great deal of potential as a three, but in order to maximize his potential he will have to work hard to use his length to compensate for his lack of athleticism to defend.
I do have to say that I think he can be dynamite in the Knicks system and boost his trade value. You never know if the Nuggets would want him in a trade, though.
By the way, how good would TWill be in a wide open, up tempo system like the Knicks? The problem is that I wouldn’t trade him for anyone on the Knicks roster.
Why is it being a blind Nets fan when I wanted Favors all along
At least call me a blind Favors fan.
The “classic” 4 knows who to rebound and defend when D-leaguers are on the court.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL @ "via broussard"
you’re funny sir. Please visit more often
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
harris
morrow
outlaw
favors
lopez
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
i think favors will end up starting by half season
just have to give him the chance
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Hey ,Remember......
Those unbelievable , effortless 40 point games Devin Harris was having after coming to the Nets from Dallas………Remember his Defense when he was playing for Dallas…Who was the Coach ??Remember , He made the All-Star team……Well……..Regardless of all the young , Hungry players that we just picked up , We still have the Blur…….He can be unstoppable when he wants to be and Avery is going to bring that back ……Devin is capable of effortlessly putting up 30 points a night……I see that happening this year……
by NetFan48 on Jul 18, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You guys are hilarious
You’re absolutely delusional if you think Amare Stoudemire isn’t an enormous upgrade over David Lee.
I say it because
he’s a much better player.
by GrandKenyon6 on Jul 18, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
omg
lee was playing center on this team. he would grab boards away from hsi teammates to pad his stats. mike would leave him in in blow outs until he got his double double. lee argues at every call like hes a superstar. i love lee but he cant shine stats shoes.
Amare had nash!!! dont you get that what is wrong with your mind?
Nash was not only the best passer but had incredible range and frye was a big shooting the 3 all of that left Amare to get more points.. you knicks fans only look at the offensive side of the ball… plain and simple Amare defensively is a bum and you cant win a championship with him..its been proven (melo is no 2 time MVP)
Yep...You're a Knicks Fan......
How can you say such things about a player who played his Heart out for you night in and night out……..You are bitter that he left……..Grow Up…….
bitter that he left?
dude do your homework the Knicks no longer wanted David Lee that’s why they never expressed interest in resigning him and signed Amar’e early.
Lee’s a nice player but he didn’t play his heart out night in and night out. You’d know that if you watched games. He didn’t box out or defend, and he consistently stat padded.
amar'e is a 5 time all star
you moron. He’s made the All NBA first team. You guys are out of your minds. Amar’e is a premier big man in this league and he’s 27, DEVIN HARRIS’S AGE. David Lee has had one year comparable to Amar’e and the Knicks won 29 games.
Amar’e put up 23 and 9 on a 54 win team and his numbers with Dragic instead of Nash were nothing short of spectacular as well. He averaged 20 and 10 with Stephon Marbury for gods sake.
If you’re really going to bring up rebounding, he averaged .6 more than Brook Lopez. I can’t wait to hear how you guys will respond to that….
he made the all star team last yr
how is he on the decline? he averaged 23 and 9 last year and scored 44 points on the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals. He’s in his prime, stop trying to convince yourself otherwise.
Knicks
will never win anything with Dantoni as coach.
they took Andy Routins, hahahahha.
next year Favors will be dunking on that whole team.
and sorry dude Melo will play in Brooklyn for a real team.
lol
everyone laughed at the landry fields pick and look who is doing the laughing now. fields is a stud. rautins is a pure shooter, i like him.
righttt, while having 1 good game in the shitty summer league
landry and fields put together? that makes sense.
He should show more potential than Landry Fields, if you take into consideration that he was the 3rd pick and Fields was the 39th. Congratulations on your future showing more potential than somebody the Knicks drafted without a guaranteed contract!!
And we had to pass up on Cousins who is a stone cold player for ours.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not in summer league. cousins is playing the PF.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
he is sitting under the rim and catching the ball, no movement what so ever, he is not a pf, cant defend a pf one on one, doesnt have outstanding athletics, and with him next to brook they would be prone to athletic PF,
Cousins is center and i would rather have lopez over him any day
Clearly you are not watching the games. He has been taking shots from the 3. He has been playing opposite Whiteside who is playing center.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
playing along side Whiteside is way different than Lopez
he is more athletic, longer arms, better ups, Defense is balanced, but with Lopez and cousins you have two guys stuck to the floor, sure he could play pf alongside an athletic center, but if it wasnt for Whitesides athletics, they would be getting killed on defense
LOOK at the games, watch his play. He is NOT camped under the rim. He would be no more killed on defense at the PF position than Amare would. The guys offensive game is incredibly flexible, and any smaller PF that he would have problems guarding he would KILL inside and on the boards.
And…give me a call when Favors can guard ANYONE, inside OR outside.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
As of a few days ago Cousins (and not Whiteside) was leading the team in blocks.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
DeMarcus Cousins, the fifth overall pick in the draft by the Sacramento Kings, also showed extremely well Tuesday night going up against, arguably, the most impressive Summer League performer thus far in Derrick Caracter.
Cousins looked dominant putting in an impressive 19 point, 12 rebound performance on the night leading his team to a 90 – 84 victory over the summer Lakers. Cousins is a tremendous talent. He can face up and put it on the floor, he can post up and get big on the block and he has also shown a feathery touch from the perimeter this summer season as well. So based on the early reviews Cousins looks like a solid pick for the young exciting Sacramento Kings.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
all against summer league talent, the same he used his size and weight to overpower in college, he wont be getting that same treatment in the nba, and he will probably fade off like an eddy curry. but thats ok, i have finally realized your problem, you have no idea how this game is played, you look at stats and wait for players to become all stars before you realize their potential, you have no form of judgment, just sit their and go with whatever the “definite” is, so you would probably have no luck nor any knowledge in which i would want to listen to regarding player development, and consideration for building a championship team, had to get that out KV, because amongst all your definites you have come up with some of the lowest arguments, one i remember having to deal with a championship team requiring a HOF in which you were actually corrected for being wrong but were still so stubborn to admit being wrong, sorry dude, youre intelect in an argument of basketball is about as important as a 2nd graders to their teacher, keep readin other peoples opinions, Just had to point that out
The same college guys he was abusing Favors struggle to even show up..
And here is Pete Carril formerly of Princeton who is considered a Big Man talent guru, on Cousins’ Summer League play:
"I’ve been in the league 17 years now and he is the first, and perhaps the only, original, different type of player that I’ve seen," said Carril. "All of these guys, I’ve seen that pivot move, I’ve seen that move 100 times, I’ve seen that move 100 times, I’ve seen the same thing all of the time. This guy is a good passer. This guy is original, he has different ideas on how to play the game. He throws nice passes, he takes shots at the top of the key and they go in. If he gets doubled, he’s finding somebody. He has to run a little harder, but in terms of what you can do with a guy like that, it’s incredible. There are certain things you can’t teach, and he does all of them."
Who know, maybe you know better than Pete Carril, maybe not even watching the games and deciding to listen to someone who told you something in pre-draft has you KNOWING things, but I doubt.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
atleast i have my own opinion, and look at your boy do his thing tonite, has twice as many shots as points
Your opinion is based on nothing other than being a Net fan, and an ill-informed one apparently. We’ll put your “Cousins is only a Center” up against Pete Carril"s (have you heard of him???)
but in terms of what you can do with a guy like that, it’s incredible. There are certain things you can’t teach, and he does all of them."
I wonder who knows more, you, or Pete Carril?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you hear what Carril is saying? This guy is special. A one in a 100 big man guy. I don’t care if Duncan has to play PF or Center. I want him on my team.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And I will lastly add, I formed my opinion on Cousins by watching 3 summer league games. I was blown away by him. I THEN went out and searched for what others were saying to see if anyone else saw what I saw.
This is proven because when I saw Cousins’ first summer league game I started posting on it right away here, citing no one.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
doesnt matter, he doesnt fit our system, its not about oo hes a good player puts up nice stats, it is who is going to compliment lopez best, and plain and simple its Favors, thats where bbiq here comes in handy, not your stats or your people who manipulate your opinion
You didn’t even understand his game (calling it camped under the rim). Hello? You simply have a position that has nothing to do with reality. Talk about how someone can’t admit they are wrong.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
thats how he plays, down low, he may have a couple of plays where he is stretching the d, but that is only because he can shoot the ball, he cant drive the basket and put that ball down with definition like amare or kg or even Favors can do, and on defense, he would be stuck to the ground posting up, trust me i know what i am watching and i atleast come up with an opinion of my own, like i stated before Favors fits the team in a basketball sense, and Cousins fits your team in fantasy basketball
Completely untrue.
He faces the basket with ease, and he drives the ball. He has a soft outside shot, and even his post ups don’t occur too deep. He faces up or goes back to the basket with dexterity.
As far as Favors fitting the team, he also as “bust” possibility written all over him, something Cousins doesn’t seem to have in Summer League. Cousins is only 11 months older than Favors.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I already linked you to plays where Cousins drives the ball (on one through at least two defenders, but I think 3), and one where he slashes through lane on a drive and running hook shot. The fact seems to be that you are describing the game of a player you haven’t watched much in summer league.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
That's not really true
Cousins was abused by UNC’s front court who Favors put to shame twice. And that’s one of the few front courts he faced with actual NBA prospects in it.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Also combined UNC's front court
weighed about 250 pounds.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Have you watched Cousins play summer league Gina?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't watched any summer league
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Gina you gotta watch this guy. I’m really telling you because I know you are a b-ball fan. He’s special. He was (apparently) smothered in college.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, missed the NC game. I was speaking of performance in the NCAA’s in general.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
As for
i remember having to deal with a championship team requiring a HOF in which you were actually corrected for being wrong but were still so stubborn to admit being wrong,
I was not wrong, either by letter or spirit in that argument. And worse, even if I was not correct my point given the structure of the NBA remains completely intact. It doesn’t matter if Billups makes the HoF, the entire history of the NBA tells you that you need HoF players to win a championship, anomalies or not.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yea and the entire history also tells you, very few people are considered HOF until after that title, and the many others that havent won one, you must have some opinion for them, you just stay stating the obvious, well here you go, TWill, Devin Harris, Brook Lopez all have HOF potential, and give them a title and they are up their with most of the others, your theory is only good for after winning a championship, not for predicting anything
Devin does not have Hall of Fame potential
in anyway shape or form. And while I agree there’s very few guys considered to be HOF guys until after a championship I disagree that you can’t tell HOF potential until after one. Anyone who watches guys like Brandon Roy, And Kevin Durant knows there’s something special about them. Anyone who watched VC, before the injuries in his Toronto days, knew he had the potential to be something special.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Same thing with Wall
he may not live up to that potential, VC never really did, but you can watch his game and see he’s different. When you watched Kevin Durant playing in college it looked like you were literally watching an NBA all-star playing with a bunch of college kids. Not everyone who looks like that reaches the potential but it’s not hard to spot.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
And in regards to “special” and being able to see it, this is exactly what Pete Carril was talking about when he said:
“I’ve been in the league 17 years now and he is the first, and perhaps the only, original, different type of player that I’ve seen,”
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Very good points Gina. You can SEE the capacity which is the point.
And painful that Twill is now being talked about as HoF type player.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
yeah I really don't get that
I like T-will and I think he can be a really productive playmaking wing/6th man type. And even then that’s only if he keeps his attitude in check and his head on straight. But I don’t understand why people are so enamored with him. I don’t see how 6 weeks erases like 7 months and 4 years(in college) of inconsistent production.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
In summer league, though, Cousins has shown skills we hardly knew existed. He’s found the open man regularly out of double teams. His face up game is streets ahead of most young big men. And his apparent mean streak suggests that he won’t just be content to put up solid numbers for a losing team.
In other words, he looks like someone who never should have fallen to fifth in the draft. Everyone except the Wizards can be faulted for passing on Cousins — especially the Timberwolves, who should have snatched him if they were always planning on trading Al Jefferson for any offer that came their way. Players with these kinds of skills who can play either power forward or center come along all too rarely. It’s why everyone drafts athletic big men who don’t turn into anything in the first place. The promise and potential are simply too tough to pass up.
Cousins is far from a sure thing — he’s yet to face the likes of Dwight Howard and Tim Duncan in real-life NBA games. But considering that most rookie big men pick up instant fouls and look out of sorts in Summer League, his performance over these first few games has been something of a revelation. Sure, players have blown up in SL before and turned into nothing — remember Marco Belinelli? — but Cousins seems different. He still has a long way to go in proving himself as an NBA star, but the foundation for greatness has already been put into place.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Cousins looked
Horrible today, I don’t know what your seeing 1-12 man, looked out of shape, trouble guarding opposing 4’s and 5’s with speed.
didn’t watch the game, I can only speak on what I’ve seen, which is three games. And others seem to see it as well.
I wish I had seen a poor performance, it would give me better perspective. So far I have only seen brilliant passing and creativity on the court.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I just requote what I quoted elsewhere, what Big Man expert Pete Carril sees:
“I’ve been in the league 17 years now and he is the first, and perhaps the only, original, different type of player that I’ve seen,” said Carril. “All of these guys, I’ve seen that pivot move, I’ve seen that move 100 times, I’ve seen that move 100 times, I’ve seen the same thing all of the time. This guy is a good passer. This guy is original, he has different ideas on how to play the game. He throws nice passes, he takes shots at the top of the key and they go in. If he gets doubled, he’s finding somebody. He has to run a little harder, but in terms of what you can do with a guy like that, it’s incredible. There are certain things you can’t teach, and he does all of them.”
What I saw in the three games was an understanding of the game I really haven’t seen in a big man in a long time. A passing, court awareness that is almost Magic like (or at least Duncan like). I grew up watching Magic, so the recollection is natural. I’ve never really seen a big man see the court like this, and his outlet passes (a completely forgotten art which leads to tons of baskets) is striking.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I’m not on any boat here or calling any player this or that. But just my observation…
WOW. i think its funny that your bashing people for overrating players, and then you make a comment about court vision that’s Magic-like. And comparing him to Duncan after summer league. SUMMER LEAGUE!
I’d like to see him against some legit NBA big men, not rookies, or d-leaguers before calling him ANYTHING. Because honestly, from what i watched of him in college, he had trouble against players who were as physical as him or more athletic.
And here is his game winning jump hook from 12 feet, a prototypical power forward move.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
And these highlights give a feel for his game.
There is the behind the back pass in the lane, with ENGLISH at around 1:50.
There are several quick release jumpers from short 3 starting around 2:50.
There is the pump fake and dribble drive through about 3 defenders somewhere in there.
There is the no-look pass, cross-court around 3:50 I believe.
In this game Cousins picked up a double double in the second half, or something like it.
Nothing here is “center” or “stuck under the basket”.
Watch the games.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He hasn’t even outplayed Gani in summer league his own team mate at GT selected 46th by the Suns.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
you knicks fans need to learn that...
….there are rules over here. chill with the cursing, this isn’t your board
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
for a real team?
the real team that won 12 games right? or the real team that plays in newark? or the real team that is near the last in the league in revenue and attendance?
OHHH, the real team whos owner put up a billboard near MSG to intimidate the Knicks then a week later came away from free agency with a shitty backup point guard, a one dimensional shooter, a small forward who is vastly overpaid and shot under 40% from the field last year, and a backup bust center who can’t score.
That real team, right?
If Melo hits the open market in 2011, he’s coming to the Knicks. Ask anybody. His wife said it for christ sake.
Meh if their losers it's because they hyped up unrealistic expectations
I think most nets fans are pleased with the way FA went, the only ones who might not be are the ones who bought into the two max guys hype. Which I think should have been clear was kind of like a “well we have cap room why not try” type thing, not a significant part of their actual plan.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
dolan is never going to out do proky, just because he offered Amare a ludicrous contract just shows how he makes moves in desperation
desperation?
that’s why the Knicks still have 3 million in cap this summer, and once Eddy Curry’s contract comes off the books next year, they’ll have more room than the Nets.
The Knicks came away with a great player while still maintaining flexibility, something the Nets would do if they could. Stop trying to convince yourself that the Amar’e move is going to be debilitating for the franchise. Even if he doesn’t pan out the Knicks have flexibility for signings and trades in the future, and they’re a much more attractive destination than the Nets.
There’s no use for the Nets to have cap room bc there’s nobody to use it on.
Actually no they won't
the Nets still have 14 million. Curry will clear 10 million but increases in others contracts will eat most of that up.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I think some if not much of that 14 mill (I thought it was 10?) will be eaten up by a PF move by years end.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
it's somewhere between 13-10
I can’t seem to find anything definitive, I think it might be 10 because we extended an offer to Boone? But he hasn’t accepted yet. And I hope if they bring in a pf it’s one on an expiring contract, since none of the other’s they seem to be targeting are particular intriguing.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Don’t imagine they are going to get an expiring contract because expiring contracts are assets to teams for several reasons. Unless one of these GMs are closet Net fans and think that the Mini-chosen One is, well, the Mini-chosen one, I can’t see snagging a one-year PF.
It could happen, but I suspect that with the CBA coming the Nets are going to get a PF talent but with a contract.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
wrong
curry makes more than 10 million. 11 plus. the knicks are saving max money for mello, it is no secret. u dont not say max money for a top 5 player in the game who has expressed desire to play in NYC.
I don't know if my post was deleted
but as I said before what is with people comparing Favors to Amare.
One Favors is no where near ready to compete in this league.
Amare is a career 20 plus and 8.9 rebounder.
Favor is hoping to even have half the career Amare has had.
All star, all nba team, rookie of the year and etc etc.
Favor has yet to step on the floor.
It’s crazy people are saying that he rebounds and plays defense better than Amare. when Amare does 50 things better than him.
You don’t compare a rookie who has done nothing to an all star
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 4:11 PM EDT reply actions
Knicks have a better team than the Nets…
but not by much…
bottom line…nets are younger, have better management, and have a lot more flexibility.
Knicks have nothing for Nets fans to envy…so knicks fans here…keep wasting your time…
Knicks wont blow the nets out on the court.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
and no you're wrong again
the nets average age is 24.5, the Knicks average age is 24.1. You’re wrong.
where u get those nummbers from?
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
the nets have better management
dude billy king is an absolute joke, walsh is one of the most respect gms in the league. thorn was great but he dipped bc he realized how much of a mess the Nets were.
Billy King overpaid for Aaron Mckie, Kenny Thomas, and Samuel Dalembert. He’s horrendous.
knicks have been one of the biggest jokes in the nba for a long time
nets have been very respected until last season…
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Until Kidd came the Nets were the Clippers of the East. Wake up dude.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you are not comparing the history of the two franchises. Are you like 17 years old?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay. Then I give you a pass.
Keep on young fella!
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The young Nets fan...
Expect a lot more in the future.
Steps:
1) Knicks fans post on Nets blogs
2) Knicks fans sons/daughters buy Nets gear
3) Knicks fans go to Nets games
4) Knicks fans become Nets fans.
5) Nets fans welcome them with open arms
knicks have been nothing but history, they are to garbage to even be talked about now
you would have to be well over 40 to remember any knicks championship, Nets will put the next one up out of tri state basketball
bro the knicks are consistently first and second in net value and revenue
bringing up the Isiah Thomas days is dumb bc the Knicks for the first time in a long time have competent management.
ESPN is out with its annual Ultimate Standings which ranks the 122 pro sports franchises by a number of metrics, incuding “stadium experience”, “ownership”, “coaching”, “affordability”, etc. Unfortunately for the Nets, the data is from last year, when “It was All Old!” Now, “It’s All New!” Whew!
The bad news: the Nets ranked 118th. The good news: 1) Mikhail Prokhorov; 2) the Knicks finished 119th. YES!
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
how old are you?
if you’re going to treat anything espn writes as truth than the Knicks have had a WAY better off season and the nets have FAILED and the Knicks will compete for the 6 seed next year.
I really can’t believe you just referenced that. The Nets haven’t won an NBA championship, the Knicks have, just off of that solely they are a better franchise. Not to mention the far superior players, immense number of hall of famers, finals appearances, some of the greatest teams in NBA history etc.
When did the Knicks won theirs? 1970?
seriously That was 40 years ago.
"We're going to be wearing a bullseye. But that's what you play for," Wade said. "We enjoy the bullseye. Plus, there's going to be times when we lose 2-3 games in a row, and it seems like the world has crashed down. You all are going to make it seem like the World Trade is coming down again, but it's not going to be nothing but a couple basketball games."
by jasperjarrod on Jul 18, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, the nets have won a championship more recently
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
lol!
Hey at least I didn’t say that the Nets have won the Championship already but for the past ten years the Nets are way better than the Knicks. Last year was just an abberation.
"We're going to be wearing a bullseye. But that's what you play for," Wade said. "We enjoy the bullseye. Plus, there's going to be times when we lose 2-3 games in a row, and it seems like the world has crashed down. You all are going to make it seem like the World Trade is coming down again, but it's not going to be nothing but a couple basketball games."
by jasperjarrod on Jul 18, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
no we won the aba championship in 75 and 76
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
LOL @ a Knicks fan calling the Nets a "mess"
funny on so many levels
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well we don't know about the management
We do have Billy King and it looks like the Nets are being run by Avery and right now we have went from Rod Thorn to Billy King
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 4:16 PM EDT reply actions
by the way, the nets already have a stud upfront in lopez, he was a 19 and 8 player last year, very young and still getting better, plus now we have Favors who the nets surrounded with the right coaches to help develop him, in a year the nets will probably have one of the best front courts in the east
so now 8 rebounds is good for a 7 footer?
Wait but Amar’e is 6’10 and average more rebounds than Lopez? WAIT?!!
Lol you guys are ridiculous. You contradict yourselves.
brook also isn't a 5 time nba all star, all nba every year etc.
stop referencing the max money bc even with that contract the knicks will have more cap than the Nets next year
I’d much rather have a premier power froward and cap space than overpay for Travis outlaw and less cap space.
we have 14 million+ in cap space
seriously, if you’re going to come over here and talk trash, at least KNOW what you’re talking about
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently that number is in question.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
know what I'm talking about?
the knicks will have 17 million dollars in cap space.
according to my elementary school math, 14 mil is less than 17 mil.
where did i contradict myself, i will put money down one that knicks dont touch Carmelo and he stays in denver
and two that the knicks are going to be doomed by the stupidity that caused them to drop max money guaranteed over the next 5 years to a player about to fall apart
i dont get what the knick fans are agruing about…
when the nets and knicks get on the court…you’ll see that there arent many differences…
knicks have a better team…but slightly
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
it's not slight at all you're delusional
the knicks won 17 more games last year and got substantially better. you have no argument.
And it’s not knick fans, a realistic net fan is leading the way.
i guess we'll have to wait and see
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
and if you're going to reference season series
the knicks won 3 games against the nets two years ago but the Nets were a better team. You judge that by something called “overall record.”
don't feed the trolls?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Both Nets and Knicks are basically back to square one
The Nets are rebounding from the disastrous Ratner years just as the Knicks are climbing out of the hole that Thomas dug. Every team has players and who really knows how good any of them will be, particularly as a team?
Add Derrick Favors, Anthony Morrow, Travis Outlaw, Johan Petro, and Jordan Farmar to the equation, mix in some better health for their key players, and the Nets easily have the potential to add 30 wins this season.
ny times:
James declined their riches and the burdens of Broadway. So the Knicks invested in one established star, Amar’e Stoudemire, and a range of role players who fit D’Antoni’s style. They also retained enough cap flexibility to go shopping again next summer.
The Knicks are much younger now, with an average age of 24 and no player in his 30s. Stoudemire, Ronny Turiaf and Eddy Curry are the oldest, at 27. Aside from Stoudemire, the Knicks’ most talented players are the two youngest: Danilo Gallinari, 22, and Anthony Randolph, 21.
go post that on Posting and Toasting. We don’t care.
by Taylor Bartle on Jul 18, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
for real
Knicks fans feeling insecure, eh?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
knicks should keep chandler…hes one of the better players knicks have
Felton/Douglas
Chandler/Az
Gallo/randolph
Amar’e
Turiaf
thats a decent team…but nothing scary
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
this why Knick fans are mad
I am a Nets fan but I can see why they are mad,
On this site the Knicks are look down in order to make the Nets feel better about their position but I doubt that will last. As bad as the Knicks have been since their last playoff birth they have never been as historically bad as the Nets nearly were.
In the article it did not mention the other teams that the verdict were still out on just the Knicks.
At that point its almost looks like Fox News. Obama is the devil etc etc etc.
I don’t need to put the Knicks down every time to lift the Nets up.
The reality is the Knicks have a better team and have set their self up well.
The Knicks have not made promise of championships in 5 years. They are improving.
The Nets on the other hand are putting up billboards. Not with their players on the side or etc etc. Just the Owners.
What will people say if the Nets win 15 to 20 games and the Knicks make it to the playoffs?
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 5:27 PM EDT reply actions
um, we aren't improving?
I’m done. Between folks assuming that we won’t make any improvements to people saying we haven’t improved at all, it’s like preaching to the choir on here.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The two biq question marks
for this team are a superstar/leader and a strong PF. The Nets went into the off-season with a gaping hole at the 4, and unless Favors comes along fast that hole has only gotten deeper now that Yi has been traded. Without a true 4 to rebound and guard the interior, the coming season could be another big disappointment. So it seems to me vital that the team add a solid PF by opening night, and hopefully long enough before then to give the new guy at least a taste of training camp.
PLUS ONE.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
We won 12 games last year. not 29 not 30 or 40
12 games
When you have a problem that big there needs to be huge improvements
We hire Billy King????
I’m sorry I just don’t see a huge difference. All I see is a 20 to 25 win season
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions
Haven’t you been reading around here. The record was completely the fault of the coach, and that was fixed. By adding Avery this team just gained about 20 more wins.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
and to add to that
the nets were pretty banged up last year too
I was joking.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I know you were joking
and people don’t think our injury prone point guard won’t get injured again???
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 5:51 PM EDT reply actions
I have good hopes for Farmar having watched him a lot at the Lakers, so I’m not as worried about that as much as some.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry Knick fans
the Nets will be taking over New York.
your team will never win anything with Dantoni.
the Nets will become the Yankees of basketball.
Favors will be a monster with Lopez.
all they need is Melo or CP3 to make there championship run.
I AM SORRY KNICK FANS YOUR TEAM IS NOT EVEN BETTER THEN THE CURRENT NETS.
HAVE FUN WITH RAUTINS AND FELTON.
that will likely not happen
there is nothing certain.
As much as Favors could be the next KG he could very well be Stromile Swift part 2.
The Nets will become the Yankees of basketball???
hahahahahahahha sorry but the Lakers and other organizations are way of ahead. Plus we shouldn’t even type championship until we can win 5 games in a row and at least sniff the playoffs.
Plus the Knicks current team is better than the Nets
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting
I was listening to the FAN the other day and Francesca was talking about Prokh… I mean Steinbrenner’s legacy. He said that a poll was done in the mid 80s, when the Yankees attendance was lagging behind the Mets about who New York fans were rooting for. This may have been the period where George was suspended. They found that there were more Mets fans in New York than Yankee fans.
People, like Francesca, think that because the Knicks are steeped in tradition that they will always be the team in New York. They cite the attempt by the Angels to overcome the Dodgers in L.A., but the fact of the matter is that if the Nets win and the Knicks don’t compete the Nets WILL be able to take New York.
A realistic Nets fan will admit that we will have to get lucky for this to happen. Favors will have to live up to what some would call lofty and others would call unrealistic expectations. I do think we are in a good position to make an attempt, there are a lot of factors to make a Nets fan excited including the move to Brooklyn and a dynamic new owner. If the Knicks do get Melo than this debate will probably end. Realistically, the Knicks and Nets have just and many questions entering this season; lots of unproven talent and a lack of depth in certain areas.
But I DO believe that the Nets are in better position from a basketball perspective with talent and assets to make something happen. Right now the only advantage that the Knicks have is that they are the Knicks, but that advantage may not last forever.
As a Net fan
I acknowledge that.
Plus hearing all the rumblings with Melo and CP3 now interested in the Knicks I believe their is some substance because as we seen with Lebron Wade and Bosh. That how it all started with.
Rumblings and the rest is history. If the Knicks land any of those players it will not matter what the Nets do or what condition they are in when they enter Brooklyn. Lopez would have to be the second coming of Tim Duncan.
I love the Nets but I think the whole Billy King and Avery having more power than he deserves is suspect.
It leads me to believe the reports on the Hornets turning him down because he wanted more power as being true.
Now instead the Nets doing what’s best in their interest we have Avery doing what is best in his interest.
If this project fails we have set the franchise back years.
As much pressure that is on the Knicks the Nets put the same pressure on their self for evening saying championship and challenging the Knicks.
I keep hearing on following the Thunder plan. You notice how humble that team is?
They let what happens on the court speak for them. We should do the same
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
What is in the best interest of Avery might also be in the Nets best interest
Like any plan, we need to give it time.
The Thunder plan is just a slogan, while we don’t have a Durant, we do have an owner who is willing to go above the cap. If we were the Thunder this offseason we would have went hard after a Power Forward or Center. They will not have that type of ability. I think we fit the Blazer’s plan better. As far as being humble, Lopez and Favors are two humble players that the Nets are counting on as being superstars.
The Thunder didn't go hard after a free agent
They went from 20 to 50 wins and at the same time many expected them to go after David Lee or even Bosh. To make trades and etc but at the same time they made minor adjustments.
I don’t know if I agree with what is in the best interest of Avery might be for the Nets.
Avery is looking to be putting together a team of yes men. Where no one will challenge him or go above his head.
Now this doesn’t leave me confident.
I know the Nets have humble players but I’m speaking of the owner. The “Blueprint for Success” is looking like a joke now.
All the talk about making a splash has been used to throw it back in their face.
Now I mean the Thunder as a whole.
I do agree the whole Thunder plan is a joke because we don’t have a franchise player heck we don’t have a westbrook.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that we don't have a Westbrook
If Westbrook was on the Nets and Lopez was on the Thunder you would be saying we don’t have a Lopez. Brook has an overall skill set that makes him a as good if not better than Westbrook as a point. Lopez will likely be a top 5 Center this year, but it is unlikely that Westbrook is a top 5 PG.
uh, and who is the Nets’ Durant? The comparison is meaningless unless it starts there.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
As someone said
the main key is kevin durant the Nets do not have a franchise player. Brook can be a top 5 center but KD is a top 5 player in the league.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Favors is a future MVP candidate?
I don’t even think that the most ambitious and imaginative Net front office guys believe that.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt thatq
if they believe that why are they looking for a starting power forward.
Name the last MVP who didn’t start for his team his rookie season?
That his team felt he wasn’t ready to start in the NBA
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I doesn’t matter. Nobody on the Nets thinks they have a potential MVP candidate.
But if Net fans want to tell us that UNLESS Favors becomes an MVP candidate they are not winning a championship, I’d be glad to agree, but also add: My God, those are very, very long odds. The guy looked pretty bad in college, and worse in Summer League. Who knows, but very long odds.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 18, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he needs more than that
and I’m a Favors supporter
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
He has made me cringe in Summer League. Maybe one day, but he seems very unsure of himself on the court without a feel for the game. Everyone can grow, who knows.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I have a feeling Favors is a player that
will fall short of expectations.
Everyone keep saying Amare> Favors and that is stupid.
Favors has never done what Amare has.
when Favors win rookie of the year we will start speculating
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Though I disagree that Favors looked bad in college
like kv said. So far in the games I’ve watched, and all be honest he 1.5 games, he just kind of looks oblivious? I’m not sure if that’s the right word.
Though to be honest I’ve always felt the same way when I watch Travis outlaw play.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I should admit that if I said that Favors was “bad” in college, this is only in contrast with the potential he is supposed to have, which is to be a special, dominant NBA player. He struck me as essentially passive to the game, and VERY reliant on his size and skill being better than the guy opposite him (a very high school mentality).
But I am glad to have at least SOME confirmation that the obliviousness I saw other Net fans have seen. Its a kind of disconnect, the kind that keeps you from being great.
Very sorry to hear that Outlaw has this for you Gina.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I haven't watched Outlaw in a while though
and I don’t mean obliviousness for Outlaw so much, just that I’m not sure he has a very high bbiq, or is all that bright. He definitely doesn’t seem passive, that’s not what i meant when I said I see it in him, but he’ll make a great play, and then do something horribly boneheaded you won’t even feel like you’re watching the same player, and not because he’s not interested it’s usually because he’s trying hard he just seems to try to hard sometimes, if that makes any sense.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Yes. I can see that in Outlaw.
But it is something else in Favors. It made me a little upset actually, especially after I had seen the exact opposite in Cousins. One was ++ in intangibles and the other was – -. The contrast is almost absurd.
I’ll give Favors time, but he really does seem to need tons of time.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I’m actually trying to think of the player from Atlanta years ago that Favors reminds me of. I want to say “Livingston” but can’t google it. He was a physical specimen, 7’0" and could jump like crazy. Karl Malone type bod. Fratello called him “robo player” because he didn’t connect. I think he made the All Star game, but he never lived up to his body. He wasn’t bad and he was on a few interesting teams, but he reminds me of Favors.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
U guys are really basing things on summer league play which is funny… In college he had horrible guards when they started playing better he killed college teams toward the end of the season… This guy is saying we should have taken cousins, u obviously have no idea what our roster is made of… Having cousins will kill us defensively
In college Favors DID have horrid guard play. It also seemed to take him a while to get acclimated to the transition from high school to college, and it would be dumb to not assume that there will also be a slow learning process for him to come around to the NBA game.
For Cousins, i watched him many times, and i was shocked that he was able to get his stock to rise as much as it did, as well as how he up’d his play. However, Cousins, for all that he is, has trouble against guys as big as him or guys who are athletic. And in the NBA you face that every night. I watched Cousins crush bad to decent teams as well as do nothing against teams who had a good big man prospect.
Granted the 1-3-1 WVU zone made things difficult, but i watched the biggest man on the court, BY FAR, get takin out of the game by a bunch of athletic small forwards.
You're also basing your observations
on the three best games that Cousins played and missed Favors best game.
Honestly, Cousins surprised me with his passing ability, but I’m still interested to see how effective he will be in the NBA getting his shot off, he doesn’t have a lot of lift and uses his body to create separation. He will have to adjust when playing against taller, stronger NBA players. I do think he will be a good player.
I think Favors will be good too. He showed a bit more offensive skill than I had seen in college. He does have a nice hook shot and rebounded really well. Cousins got a lot of rebounds without jumping, while Favors was agressively attacking the board especially in the last game.
Cousins attitude was troubling, he mentally was taken out of the game when things did not go his way, while Favors seems to keep an even keel.
I don’t know how you could declare Favors a bust and Cousins a bonified allstar so quickly. Both have a lot of upside and both have a lot of questions.
This sounds like a sober view.
Cousins already has a very comfortable jump hook which he can shoot either facing up, or on the block, or even slashing through the lane. He has incredibly long arms. I believe he will have no problem getting his shot off, especially because he has an outside shot which always keeps defenses off balance.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Favors franchise player??
nawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
I doubt that’s Favors
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Nets and Knicks rivalry is really going to intensify when
nets move to brooklyn…it’ll be fun
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
theres no rivalry
as many of u have said the nets have been better than the knicks practically every year in the last decade, and they still aren’t a relevant franchise in any sense.
The only reason the Nets were being talked about recently was bc the media hyped up Proky and Jay Zs influence on Lebron, but when they came away with 4 bench players in free agency, they quickly went back to irrelevance.
lets sign samardo samuels
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
SAMARDO SAMUELS!
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
End of story if u think cousins should have been taken by the nets u do not kno basketball
Favors will be solid if not amazing defensively may add more weight, post move with both hands… If he stays out of foul trouble and becomes better offensively he fits 100 times better than cousins. And even with out the shot he fits better because brook shoots the ball well and favors will clean the glass. This will be a very popular play for years to come( harriss penetrate kicks out to brook brook passes to favors for the easy dunk) easy buckets!!!! Lol
you harp on the same things
We don’t know what Carril had to say about Favors and he has never worked with Cousins. Cousins game is advanced, he is a great passer and will be a great player. Did you hear the interview with the SAC Gm in the game. He was talking about how Cousins and Whiteside (who looked much better than reports) complement each other well because Whiteside has the potential to be a great weakside shotblocker, which is essential in the NBA. The Nets have that in Favors that is why he’s a good fit for the Nets.
If you had to pick between two big men and you were the Nets, who makes more sense?
The skilled big man with soft touch and great passing ability, but maturity and attitude issues and a lack of top end athleticism.
Or a raw big man with tremendous athletic ability, the ability to finish, and the willingness to work on his game.
They both have upside and questions but one fits the Nets needs. If it is close I always take the one who is more professional.
Hmmm. My enthusiasm for Cousins is NOT a referendum on the draft choice. What is done is done. But it is something of a referendum on Favors himself. He’s 11 months younger than Cousins but really looks like 5 years younger.
As to IF I had to pick (and I had advocated trading down because the doubts on these guys were too much), I would steer hard AWAY from Favors because his bust (Stromile Swift) potential is pretty high.
Frankly though I’m not scared away from the Twin Tower possibility if Lopez and Cousins played together. I just don’t by the argument that two big men can’t play together. History has shown that when at least one of them is a dynamic passer (and Cousins’ passing is pretty much out of this world), such a line up causes far more problems for defenses than it does for itself.
IF Favors displayed the same sort of court awareness and feel for the game that Cousins did, my God, I would say that your “team fit” argument is totally convincing, but BRAIN is a very big part of being great, and Favors doesn’t seem to have BB brain.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You need a history lesson...
The success of two big men together is the ability of one to defend PFs (TD and KG) and the agility to stick with PFs (Gasol and KG) and the ability to play on the perimeter (Dirk).
There is no example of a guy like Cousins playing PF regardless of his passing ability.
Gasol, has no agility to stick with PFs. This is well known. He was eaten up by Amare and the Lakers couldn’t stop him until they started bring on the double team immediately. This is pretty much obvious. Not only don’t you know history, you were not watching the Finals very closely, nor do you seem to know the Lakers team very well.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
dude i stopped arguing with KV when i noticed his logic were so repetitive and redundant at the same time, he doesnt understand how to but together a well balanced team, just like the pistons
And you seem to not really know basketball history, and how two bigs can definitely play together if one of them is an adroit passer. Your arguments are even more repetitive than mine, repeating something you heard someone say in pre-draft.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The ability for two bigs to play together...
Has much more to do with defense than offense. As well as if one can effectively play (and move around) on the perimeter.
The problems on defense go BOTH ways.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Give me one example of two natural centers playing successfully together...
That were both as unathletic as Cousins and Brook. Just one example please.
No truly dominant big man goes 9 for 45 over a 3-game stretch in Summer League...
Either:
1) Cousins lack of lift will not allow him to get of shots in the NBA
2) His lack of conditioning is much worse than anyone imagined
3) He is completely unable to take instructions and has zero attention span.
My guess is all three apply.
Favors is the right pick 7 days a week.
It is so curious that Favors gets a COMPLETE pass on Summer League, while Cousins gets an odd sort of…
WELL he did fantastic the first games BECAUSE it is only Summer League.
AND he did so poorly in the last games which proves he sucks BECAUSE ts Summer League.
The guy is only 11 months older than Favors and their Summer League performances can’t even be put on the same breath.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no way Cousins could ever guard NBA PFs...period
There is not a single example in NBA history of a guy close to 300 pounds that can’t jump effectively guarding PFs (not to mention that Brook s also slow of foot).
And SL showed that Favors has a lot of work to do (which he excitedly looks forward to doing) and Cousins’ concerns about conditioning, focus and being able to take instruction are very real.
And just as Cousins showed glimpses of being the best player on the floor (when not totally exhausted), Favors did the same thing in his last game.
The Nets were not willing to spend a #3 pick on a backup center with a guy with as much potential as Favors on the board. Simple as that.
Favors has displayed an equal impossibility of defending NBA PFs. The only difference is that NBA PF won’t likely be able to guard Cousins.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Right...
It is impossible that Favors will be able to guard NBA PFs. Do you read what you write?
I SEE what I see when the guy attempts to guard D-leaguers.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy constantly alters shots...
And plays excellent pick and roll defense.
Once he learns not to foul, he will be a defensive beast.
Cousins is just a beast. FPA.
Funny he hasn’t learned not to foul yet.
Its odd how Favors is going to LEARN everything in the future, but Cousins will LEARN nothing in the future.
Its funny how Pete Carril says that there are some things that nobody can teach, and Cousins knows all of them already.
These are things that Favors will never learn.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Cousins fouled just as much as Favors...
But Cousins biggest problem is learning how to behave. And I am glad the Nets did not take the risk.
Yeah. What problem does a 19 year old have a better chance of growing out of?
1). Learning how to behave.
2). Learning how to play basketball.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Right...
Favors showed just as much ability during his 23/11 game in 28 minutes as Cousins did earlier in the week.
And Cousins would be nothing but a backup center on the Nets. And the Nets don’t need a problem in the huddle when they are trying to groom a lot of kids. It has been written that Cousins wasn’t even paying attention in the Sac huddle. Unbelievable for a kid in his first NBA camp.
I say he’s a guy who got tired.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
And was he too tired to listen in the huddle?
And tired for all three games? Serious red flags. Like his SEEfood diet that didn’t help him lose any weight.
Would’ve been perfect as a 20 minute back up center.
Exactly. If he played 20 minutes behind Lopez, and then 10 minutes at PF, you would have a 30 minute a game FORCE.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me know the first time Favors throws a behind the back bounce pass, with English, for an assist?
Let me know the first time Favors flicks an outlet pass 50 feet down court starting the break.
Let me know the first time Favors…ah, forget it. Favors in the man.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me know the first time Cousins can jump...
And the first time Cousins weighs less than 280.
And the first time Cousins can play more than 30 minutes in a game without being exhausted.
The guy shot 9 for his last 45! How could that happen to someone as talented as Cousins.
Cousins would have been a really nice backup center for Brook since 15 minutes is about all his conditioning will allow.
Let me know when Larry Bird jumps. When he does it will be his first time.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Larry Bird was a tireless worker
Derrick “hard work” Favors will iron out the wrinkles
Cousins?
When does “iron out the wrinkles” = knows how to pass out of double teams with precision, effortlessly start the fast break with brilliant outlet passes, and any number of “unteachable” things.
Yes. Bird was a tireless working, and Cousins is not. But what also made Bird special aside from his outside shot was in unteachable instinct for passing which opened up the court in new ways.
Asking whether a player who has 7’ 6" reach and priceless passing can “jump” is a video game question. Jumping is not basketball.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
“a tireless worker”
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
JUMPING is not playing basketball. If Jumping was playing basketball Gerald Green and Shannon Brown would be the best players in the league.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Give me one example of a guy as big and unathletic as Cousins playing PG successfully...
If not…please go away and get a history lesson.
Successful 7 footer (or near) PFs:
Dirk, Lewis, KG, TD, Gasol – They are all very agile and/or excellent defenders. They are all also skinny. Do you see a theme.
You are clueless on Gasol. I watch him very closely. He is a very poor lateral defender.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
He moves much better than Cousins and can play effectively on the perimeter...
And weighs about 50 pounds less than Cousins.
Last night, you compared Cousins to TD. Now is he like Gasol?
I was very careful in my comparison to TD. What I said was to those who said “I would never take Cousins we already have our center Lopez” Would you say that if Cousins was Duncan. The purpose of the question was clear. Just because you have a center doesn’t necessarily mean you PASS on someone simply due to position. Sometimes talent assessment has to come into it.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
And an assessment of conditioning, maturity and ability to be coached...
Hence the reason we drafted Favors.
And Thorn has been around for 50 years…so spare me your Pete Carril crap.
And has Thorn said that Favors is unlike ANY Big Man he has seen in his entire NBA career?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And tell me why Cousins lost no weight from Chicago to the Nets workout with his SEEFOOD diet?
Because the guy has the discipline and mentality of an 11 year old.
He also has been called by Carril perhaps the only originally skilled basketball Big Man he has seen in his 17 years in the league. Of the 100s he has seen.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Carril has been coaching basketball for like 50 years, invented the Princeton offense, and you think the stats on 3 SL games nullifies his vision of a player. Clueless.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't he a Sac employee?
And Avery said Favors can be better than Amare. And he was the PG for Duncan and Robinson (a successful big man tandem due to the conditioning and athleticism of the two bigs).
Avery has every reason to stroke Favors. The guy seems to be VERY sensitive and there is a good chance he will be crushed by NBA PFs this year.
Carril IS a King employee, or at the least he has been, but his impeccable in his BBall career. It is like Jerry West commenting on a Laker. The guy does not fake comments. He is an Icon, a Hall of Fame mind.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Wake up dude, you aren’t even making sense. Cousins could go 1 for 100 and Carril’s words would STILL be a highly valued assessment. Carril is a double hall of fame coach of legendary basketball knowledge.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy is about as creditable basketball mind in the industry. He is basically John Wooden.
What do you think he is doing, trying to drive up his trade value.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Carril has been coaching basketball for like 50 years, invented the Princeton offense, and you think the stats on 3 SL games nullifies his vision of a player. Clueless.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Did Carril comment on Cousins lack of conditioning an inability to listen to coaches???
Derrick Coleman was more talented than Cousins and how did he do?
Coleman is a good example. There is a chance that he is Coleman, this is a possibility.
But Favors might be Stromile Swift. I would take Coleman over Swift as a bottom.
Carril actually put Cousins beyond Coleman in his 17 year assessment. He called him a truly original player who SEES the floor like no Big Man he has seen before.
And yes, conditioning and attitude are serious questions. But as ever Net apologist likes to say: HE IS 19 YEARS OLD!
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Cousins was the only guy in the summer league that was exhausted for the last 3 games...
Is that because he is in the worst condition of any guy in the SL? Is being tired a reason to shoot 20% over a 3-game period? Is there any precedent of a guy as good as Carril says shooting 20% over a 3-game period against D-Leaguers?
Does Carril work for the Kings?
At least everyone can agree that Cousins was the FPA.
He has a lot to grow.
The difference is, between Favors and Cousins, in my mind.
Cousins’ ceiling is WAY higher, people are talking about being an absolutely unique Basketball mind and skill level. Other than Net blog posters nobody is talking about the ceiling of Favors that way.
Favors bottom is far lower. While Cousins might become Coleman or Rasheed Wallace, Favors could be Stromile Swift, being perfectly honest about it.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 19, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
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