NetsDaily Off-Season Report #14
We're hoping for a respite after the last three weeks. It's been busy: the NBA Draft; Heavy Wooing in Cleveland; Summer League; "The Decision"; Free Agency; two Prokhorov visits--and our interview; Billy King, etc., etc. So we'll use a slow weekend to take a look at a couple of things that flew under the radar, most notably two Avery Johnson interviews we belatedly trolled through Saturday. We also answer the question, who is Prokhorov's go-to guy on the Nets? We take a look at how the start of the Nets rebuilding compares to that of the 76ers after their disastrous 9-win season...and how it compares to the Knicks. Finally we look at what changes in uniform numbers may mean for the fates of Josh Boone, Chris Quinn and Jarvis Hayes, three Nets who wanted to come back next season.
Every Sunday, we’ll be updating the Nets’ off-season with bits and pieces of information, gossip, etc. to help take the edge off missing the playoffs, relying on the Nets’ beat reporters and others who have slipped interesting stuff into larger stories and blogs...not to mention our own reporting.
Avery Johnson, In His Own Words
We spent some time Saturday morning listening to and watching Avery Johnson interviews, one a conference call with questions posed by season ticket holders and moderated by Gary Sussman; the other a video interview with questions from Chris Carrino, the radio voice of the Nets.
Johnson said something nice about virtually every player on the roster but noted that while the Nets will be "so much better than we were better last year", making the playoffs remains a "really, really lofty goal.". Still, Johnson said the Nets may not be "done" this off-season, even though the team has 12 players on guaranteed contracts and two more on partially guaranteed deals.
"Down the road, if there's an opportunity to get a superstar, believe me, Mikhail Prokhorov is going to be the guy who's gonna pull the trigger and we have cap flexibility. We still have 14 and a half, 15 and a half million dollars in cap space," he told season ticket holders, audibly pounding the table as he spoke. "Believe me, we're not done yet. We're still going to address our starting power forward needs, if we dont decide to start (Derrick) Favors."
There was even a couple of pieces of news buried in the audio and video files: Larry Krystkowiak has been added to the coaching staff and the Nets are "probably going to bring in" a veteran point guard (and it sounded like Johnson has someone in mind). He's also got Devin Harris on a weight and strength program to cut down on his injuries and has dispatched Sam Mitchell to Atlanta to work with Favors.
As far as the starting lineup, he said right now, there are four players he likes, but didn't rule out changes. "Early on, Devin, Courtney Lee, Outlaw...not sure about the four...Brook Lopez. Anthony Morrow could come in beat everyone out at the 2. There will be a lot of trial and error. Maybe we don't get there (a set starting lineup) til the All Star break".
One thing is for certain: defense will matter and already Johnson thinks some of his players who can play it. "Damion James is a good defender. Johan Petro, our back up center, is a good defender. Derrick Favors is a good defender. Devin is capable of being a first team All-Defense. And they'll get a defensive rating sheet after every game".
Probably the most interesting thing about the interviews was Johnson's thumbnail descriptions of individual players. Here are some of them, with bits and pieces of the two interviews stitched together:
Devin Harris: "Devin has the capability to be one of the top five to seven point guards in the NBA. We need to get him back to playing at a really high level at both ends of the floor.. and keep him on the floor. We got him on a serious weight training program. It's a matter of getting in the weight room and take a licking and keep on ticking. We will see him again in August. It's a matter of him really building muscle. We need him to play upwards of 80 games. Devin is capable of being a first team all-Defensive team."
Jordan Farmar: "Don't call him a backup. Jordan is a guy who's capable of starting, capable of pushing. He's played in pressure situations before. We hope that that point guard tandem can be as good as any point guard tandem in the league."
Derrick Favors: "Derrick is purely in the development stage. He's a young kid who we feel has star potential. He's going to be add 15 or 20 pounds in the next few years. Favors has that type of body. He's a guy who can rebound, get what we call dirty rebounds, block shots. He already has a pretty advanced jump hook shot, both lefty and righty. In Orlando, it was night and day between games 1 and 5. I told him before game 5, 'play like you did in high school' and he looked like the best player in the draft. He has a huge upside." At one point, he compared Favors to Kevin Garnett, another to Amare Stoudemire.
Damion James: "He was the best player in Orlando by far. He really was outstanding and out of all the rookies down there, I didn't see anyone player better than Damion. I don't know what Damion's ceiling is but he looks to be a Robert Horry type of 3 man, a winner, a guy who can play multiple positions defend multiple positions. We're really excited about Damion". He admitted he might be "biased" but it didn't stop him.
Terrence Williams: "Terrence came and participated in our summer league process. It gave me a chance to see Terrence. I'm leaning to 1-2 or 2-1 with Terrence. He is not a 3 man. He has a pretty high basketball IQ. We're trying to get him to where he is consistent at both ends of the floor." He emphasized TWill is "definitely" not a 3.
Anthony Morrow: "A guy who can play the 2 spot or the 3 spot. He has an ability to consistently make three's and that's rare in this league. He can make them off balance, he can make them from anywhere on the floor. Also, he just has an ability to score."
Travis Outlaw: "He has a lot of size and he's played some 3...he's played some four he played against stronger 4's but we think he's better at the 3. He can run the wings, can score. I had that with a guy in Dallas with Josh Howard who had that same ability to play athletic, to be and athletic 3 man. When we evaluated all the free agents, spent a lot of time with our scouts durin the season. Then at the end we had rankings. With all the big boys coming off the board, Travis was the best available 3 man, a player with size who can score the basketball. If need to utilize him at the 4, he can play the 4. We've got to have options, but my hope is to utilize Travis at the 3." He seemed reluctant to talk about Outlaw at the 4, quickly trying to dismiss it.
Johan Petro: "You've got ot have multiple bigs that you can put out there on the floor. And Johan he gives us that ability to--when Brook is not in the game--to put another bigger body in who's mainly a defender and a rebounder. And we feel with (Brian) Zoubek coming on in our summer league we feel we're really deep at that position."
So, what's next?
"We're focused on training camp, our off season development, our off season training--getting our guys stronger, getting them our playbook offensively and defensively so that when we hit the ground running in training camp, we can be ready to go. Right now, the goal is to develop our young talent, to get guys to compete at a high level on the court, to play an exciting brand of basketball".
"Hopefully that will lead to more wins than losses. With our young players, that may taken some time".
"We'll use the same offensive scheme we had in Dallas: ball movement, player movement. We want to push the ball as much as we can. Expect quite a bit of variety in our offense. We make guys battle it out. We think it's a good problem to have. (depth)"
"The team has to get an identity first. We have to take some baby steps before we get there."
"We're just trying to get through one practice, just one practice, and not screwing up everything. Then we want to get to our first preseason game."
Is he optimistic?
"What's the goal. (in Dallas, I won) seven out of every 10 games...right now that's the goal, that's the standard. We don't want to go from 12 to 22. We want the opportuntiy to comepte for a playoff spot...right now, that's a really really lofty goal.
"The Thunder didn't become competitive overnight. We're at the beginning stages of that. To be an Oklahoma City, got to have a superstar like they have with Kevin Durant. Right now we don't have that kind of guy on our roster. We hope that Derrick Favors can in a year and a half be that type of superstar. That's why we drafted him. We hope to get there one day but that's a good model to follow.
"Yes, we can make a run at he playoffs, but you look at the guys ahead of you."
Does he have the staff he needs?
We're going to have a coaching staff that has a lot of experience, especially head coaches, with Sam Mitchell on my staff and Larry Krystkowiak, who was the head coach at Milwaukee. We retained John Loyer, we brought in Popeye Jones from Dallas who's going to be a really good big man's coach and Tom Barrise, who's going to be my do-it-all caoch in every facet of the game. So we feel we have a really competent coaching staff that's going to be energized and are really good teachers."
Mikhail saving money
It's always nice to save money and it appears the recent round of front office manuevers is saving Mikhail Prokhorov a ton. Although the switch from Lawrence Frank to Avery Johnson appears to be a wash, part of Johnson's salary is still being paid by the Mavericks, at least according to Dallas writers. And since both Sam Mitchell and Larry Krystkowiak were signed to multiple year head coaching deals before being fired, we would think part of their deals are being paid by the Raptors and Bucks, respectively.
Billy King for Rod Thorn (and Kiki Vandeweghe) is a huge savings for the Russian billionaire. King will make $2 million a year, compared to $5.5 million for Thorn and $1.75 million for Vandeweghe. Now, presumably, Bobby Marks will get a little more in his pay packet but it's not going to make up the difference. Then, of course, there's the roster, which as of now will cost him about $16 million less than last season's group. Prokhorov is spending more in other areas, like assistant coaches' salaries, player amenities at the Prudential Center in Newark, etc. Haven't heard yet about replenishing those areas where the Ratner cost-cutting hit hardest: scouting, statistical analysis and simple things like executive assistants. At his press conference in May, Prokhorov promised, in response to a NetsDaily question, that those issues would be taken care of this summer.
Prokhorov has promised as part of his deal to buy the team to eat the Nets losses while in New Jersey up to $60 million. So every little bit counts.
Razumov on the Rise
Looking for a power broker inside the Nets' Russian side? Look no further than Onexim CEO Dmitry Razumov. Quietly, the 35-year-old Moscow native has become the go-to Russian for the Nets front office. Razumov's only official role is as a member of the Nets Chairman's Council, the team's board of directors, but he has been part of every major decision Prokhorov has made regarding the Nets, starting with the purchase.
It was Razumov who toured the Prudential Center during a preseason game last October, then helped put together the package that permitted the Nets to leave the IZOD Center and take up residence at The Rock. He accompanied Prokhorov to the NBA Draft Lottery, took part in the presentations to LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade, was part of the hiring process for both Avery Johnson and Billy King, and according to King is the guy who he'll call to get deals approved. King noted that the decision to hire him was made by "Michael and Dmitry".
Razumov is described by Nets insiders as enthusiastic about the team. He's the youngest player in the team hierarchy at 35.
The Model: The 1972-73 Sixers
During the worst of last season, the comparison between the Nets and 1972-73 76ers was everywhere. The Nets were in danger, up until April, of breaking the 76ers' futility mark of nine wins. The comparison was forgotten when the Nets won their 10th game against the Spurs.
But what about going forward? Are the Nets following the path the Sixers took between 1973 and 1983 when they won the NBA Championship. Are they progressing the way the 76ers did? And based on the 76er model, is the new owner's goal of a championship in five years realistic?
The year after the 76ers won nine games, they went into an aggressive rebuilding mode: They drafted well, taking Doug Collins in the first round; then picked up Allen Bristow, George McGinnis and Caldwell Jones (already playing in the ABA) as well as Harvey Catchings with a later pick. Those five went on to play more than 3,300 NBA games. It took a while for McGinnis and Jones to make it to the NBA, but when they did, they proved valuable. The Sixes also hired a new young coach, Gene Shue. Shue had won 52 games the year before with the Bullets. And they practiced patience, as the win total went from 9 to 25 to 32 to 46 (and the playoffs) before getting to the NBA Finals in the fourth year after their debacle season. The key was the acquisition of Julius Erving from the nearly bankrupt New York Nets. In that 1976-77 season, the Sixers still had four of their five of their picks from the 1973 draft on their roster as well as a couple of solid young players in Darryl Dawkins and Henry Bibby. They lost in the Finals to Bill Walton's Trail Blazers, but over the next six years, Philly got to the Finals three more times before winning it all in 1982-83, the tenth anniversary of their nine-win season. Sound familiar? Sound like a plan? It should.
Knick Knocks
Speaking of models, we hear a lot about how much better the Knicks did so much better than the Nets this summer. Really?
From what we can tell, the Knicks will start one All-Star (with problem knees) in Amar'e Stoudemire; two young 6'11" swingmen, Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph, with yet unrealized potential; a little-known Russian rookie named Timofey Mozgov; and Raymond Felton, a 6'1" point guard so good the Bobcats gave up on him. While we can't diminish Stoudemire's skills nor Randolph or Gallinari's possibilities, we look at the two key positions: point guard and center, and wonder why Knick fans are so excited, why the Garden is sold out. We started following Mozgov when Andrei Kirilenko mentioned him as the next Russian NBA player last fall, right around the time Prokhorov agreed to buy the team. After a solid performance in the European championships in 2009, Russian fans expected big things from the physically strong, athletically gifted Mozgov. He didn't deliver for his Russian league team, Khimki. Reports in the Knick-centric New York sports pages that Khimki may have been "hiding" him smacks of, how do we say this diplomatically, bull----. Khimki is a contender in both the Russian Superleague and Euroleague. Their coach is also the coach of the Spanish National Team. They like to win, not hide assets. As for Felton, the Bobcats' Larry Brown thought so highly of him in 2008 that he begged Michael Jordan to rescind his choice of Brook Lopez as the 'Cats' draft pick and instead go for D.J. Augustin, a real point guard.
Not to mention the Knicks' bench. Other than Chandler (who they're trying to trade and who needs surgery), Rony Turiaf and maybe Toney Douglas, it is underwhelming. There's Kelenna Abuzeike, Billy Walker and their three second round choices, Andy Rautins, Landry Fields and Jerome Jordan. Am I missing someone? Oh yes, Eddy Curry who Mozgov's agent was told wouldn't be getting any minutes this season. All that hoo-hah about Mozgov choosing the Knicks because they are further along in rebuilding? Nope. It was about Mozgov being promised big minutes.
We're not saying the Nets will do considerably better than the Knicks. But we are saying that as currently constituted, the Knicks ain't that much better.
How Good of a Shooter is Anthony Morrow?
A fansite for the Warriors noted this on Saturday....
"No NBA player has ever shot like this. If he can keep his accuracy where it's been, sometime in November, Anthony Morrow will officially become the best three-point shooter in NBA history. His career percentage stands at .460... that's the equivalent of a guy shooting friggin' .690 from two-point land. A guy like that will help you win games even if he can't do anything else, and Morrow rebounds his position well and almost never turns it over. His net plus-minus totals in his two Golden State seasons were +3.1 and +4.1, and adjusted plus-minus suggests that wasn't no fluke. He's a limited player, but a good one, and he and Courtney Lee will make a dynamite offense/defense combo at the two in New Jersey".
Why November? Because that's when he will enough attempts to qualify for the record...500. He currently has 491.
Wing Span?
We have watched a few summer league games and the Draft before that and now believe that "enormous wing span" has replaced "ridiculous upside" as a measure of potential. Lots and lots of players, we are told, have "enormous wing spans".
Maybe. As it turns out, a person's normal wingspan is equal to 107% of their height (without shoes of course). So while people think Brook Lopez has an "enormous" wing span for a seven-footer, the facts belie that. A normal seven-footer (if there is such a thing) would have a wing span of 7'5.88 inches. Lopez's wingspan, as measured at the pre-Draft Combine two years ago, was 7' 5.5. So unless you think a third of an inch amounts to an "enormous" wingspan, Brook doesn't qualify. Damion James' wing span is about an inch longer than normal; Harris' is an inch shorter.
Only one Net qualifies as having an above average wing span. Favors' 7'4" wing span is about 2" longer than you would expect for a player 6'8.75" in bare feet. Not enormous though.
Final Note
If the assignment of uniform numbers means anything, at least three former Nets are history. Anthony Morrow has been given #22, previously owned by Jarvis Hayes; Jordan Farmar has been given #2, previously owned by Josh Boone and Travis Outlaw has been given #21, previously owned by Bobby Simmons. Terrence Williams has already taken #1 from Chris Quinn. Johan Petro is going with #27. We can't remember who wore that last. And if you care, Brian Zoubek has been wearing #35, no doubt an homage to Jason Collins, and Ben Uzoh, #18.
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Comments
I feel bad for Keyon and Jarvis
They both wanted to come back and let the Nets fans know that they care and wanted to make up for that horrible season. Both great players back in the 08-09 season coming up big. Its upseting for Jarvis because I really liked him and knowing he wont be back hurts. I dont feel bad for Chris Quinn or Josh Boone who only want to come back because no team will ever sign them. Josh you did nothing except that 07-08 year where you were doing alright. Chris Quinn you probably scored 10 points combined as a net.
Nothing against Dooling.
But the only reason he wanted to get back was because he thought the Nets were getting one of the superstars and becoming elite in the East.
I’m glad we don’t need to pray anymore so Jarvis goes through a full 82 games season without a single injury.
Both are professionals and great players, I hope they sign with a contender.
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
Wingspan
Bill Simmons might have quoted a 1.07 number a couple of weeks ago but there’s competing studies that put it all over the map between 1.02 and 1.08. Most of them shade towards the 1.02 side.
by Newark2Brooklyn on Jul 17, 2010 5:29 PM EDT reply actions
Great research as always, Net Income
But please change your stat to “107%” not “1.07%.” Grammatically, it doesn’t make sense the way you have it now. Plus, have you double checked this, or are you just taking Simmons’s word for it?
Other than that, great article as usual.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Knicks fans came here yesterday trying to bother us
Mr.$1 and a couple of others tried to fight them off….it was a nasty war.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
spelling mistakes
this article has numerous spelling mistakes. i pointed out earlier today in another article a different spelling mistake. this is the first time in my years of reading NetsDaily that i’ve even seen one.
not to detract from Net Income’s work because it is truly outstanding but slow down, sub edit it or run a spell check.
But i say this because i love the offseason reports, one of the best things in my who week i choose to read.
maintain the high standard.
by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 17, 2010 6:00 PM EDT reply actions
That is very rude, Net Income spends his hard time and work
He writes these articles for us, he is a great guy who does this for us. He writes 5 paragraphs at a time sometimes. He is just trying to publish it, NOBODYS PERFECT!
He's a great guy?
uhhhh……. let’s keep it real. He’s a great Nets fan, a great researcher, and a great writer. After that, it’s pretty much all downhill.
don't mean to be rude
i honestly think NetsDaily is at the very top of sports reporting/journalism/blogging/fan site.
i spend literally hours on this site everyday. I love it and i feel i know many of the readers due to how and what they post.
Net Income is the best on the site, i only wish he would post more in the talk back/comments section so that we could actually learn more of his own opinions.
as i said i don’t mean to be rude but this is the first time ever i have noticed spelling mistakes. ever! and i’ve been reading netsdaily for years. it was just a surprise to see a few mistakes in the same article.
FAO: Net Income, apologies if you think i’m rude but your website has maintained the highest of standards over the years and any writer does not like to see their own work have mistakes in it. I think the site has the same quality as the NYTimes and was merely giving a heads up that a spell check might need to be run through.
by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 17, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
So I ran the piece through spell check
and found two typo’s…an extra “t” in athletic and a transposition of two letters in coaching.
I have corrected them and I can assure you that I know how to spell both.
I did win the spelling bee in fifth grade.
spelling bee
ha! i’m not surprised to hear you won the spelling bee. Your personal output on the site is always top notch. the only reason i mentioned it was due to never seeing spellings mistakes before in your articles and i’m a long term reader. And i know it can only have been due to not running it through a spell check originally.
Net Income, thanks for all the effort you put into the site, if there are other websites about other teams which are of the same quality as this site then those other fans are very lucky. I know all the readers think you do a tremendous job here and you work so hard for all our benefit.
cheers and i won’t mention the spelling again.
by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 17, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
terrence
he didn’t really praise twill at all…nooooooooooooo
by tian17 on Jul 17, 2010 6:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Nets are "probably going to bring in" a veteran point guard?
I know there were previous references to a ‘glue’ guy but … why would that person be a PG, an area we seem to have covered (TW being 3rd)? If it had been Derek Fisher, that would have been good. Any guesses on who that PG would be?
Udonis would have been a great 4 and glue guy. Still, I’d hope for a older vet, mentor, championship winner, glue, big body PF for the team. Anyone out there that meets that description?
sounds like they know who they want
King said one or two. Avery said a point guard specifically. I could see them signing someone who might want to coach in the future…someone who Avery respects.
i cant solve your riddle
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Any signings at the vet min don’t count against the cap right??? So adding at a PG at this price would be their goal I would think.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
yes, but only that part
which the team pays. Remember, the league pays part of any league minimum salary.
Yeah I am glad Avery said Outllaw is better at the 3
I forget who was trying to sell that the other day, but I am glad to hear Avery talking like this. Anyone can tell he would not be as good at the 4
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I agree with the part where he could use his quickness to go to the hole at 4, but out of the players on the team, he would be our best 3 on the team. When you say scoring at the 4, you me like a normal power forward game? I am not quite sure what you mean, like the game he plays with his skill set?
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Avery's comments...
about Outlaw inability to play PF and Terrence not fit for the SF has me thinking he’s not a small lineup guy.
Lawrence would go small for large periods in a game and we’d always be outplayed, I hated that.
Avery’s signing looks better every day.
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
sure he is tall enough
Its just I think Outlaw is not thick enough to play the 4. He barley weighs over 200lbs. I think he would get bangd up, if he put on 25lbs then okay. But bulking up would take away his quickness. But just my opinion, I like a meaty 4.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I can't say I know Outlaw...
as much as I know Farmar and Morrow but, everything indicates that he’s a SF and Avery does not want to play guys out of their positions, that’s exactly what happened last season with guys like CDR, TWill and Hayes playing SF and guys like Josh Boone playing C.
And I don’t think a player that spent like 7 years can get bulked up, it’s their physical frame and It won’t change now, so I hope he’ll be utilized as a SF.
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
So what EXACTLY is a Small Forward (3)??
If T-will is not, Then how is Morrow going to see minutes there? T-Will has the Size and Versatility so what in his game makes him “Definitely Not a 3”?
The NETS are coming!
I like this
This is great, Devin harris is going to great next year. He wants Harris to be a top five point gaurd next year, and i wrote a fanpost about this. He is going to one of the best int he league, alot of people are going to see it. Even last year, you could see flashes of it, he was a walking highlight reel
I think so as well
Now that the defenses can’t pack the paint and Avery in his ear, expect a solid year from Devin, if he can stay healthy
Maybe this year will mark the end of “_evin Harris”, and the return of “The Blur”
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Avery Johnson
I think wants guys that are players of character as well. And with Twill has some questionable character issues he could be the odd man out. Is it true Twill was late to the bus during the summer league?
TWill will get his parental supervision this year
… much needed after ‘home alone’ last year. He apparently straightened out a bit after Rod hinted he’d be playing in the D League if he kept his act up. So, maybe he will mature under Avery. Better to get that bus incident out of the way early.
LOL
You cannot be serious by saying did not have that much of an offseason did the nets?
1) I love the mention of Amare’s knees constantly on this site yet everyone seems to fail to mention that the guy played in ALL 82 games last year. How about the nets “all star” pg… what a joke. harris is as fragile as the come.
2) Are you serious with the felton comments. You know he is perfect for mikes system and he is a horrible fit with brown considering his strengths are pushing the ball and utilizing his quickness.
3) LOL way to not mention how much of a steal the david lee trade was. u do realize we could have lost him for nothing, right? randolph is an absolute stud. don nelson is an iddiot. not to mention turiaf and buike are solid nba players.
4) you fail to mention how unlucky the nets were with the 3rd pick and how dumb they were for passing on cousins! sure looks to be in shape and intimidating unlike your “project” who is supposed to help lead u guys to playoff 1 year, championship 5 year…. right.
5) u fail to mention how much of a joke that dumb billboard is. if greatness is equivalent to adding johan petro (LOL), travis outlaw (too many years), and jordan farmar (the defending champions did not want him back), and morrow (one-dimensional player) then congrats.
well, it seems to me that you are bias and trying to tell yourself the nets had a good offseason even though everyone truly knows else wise.
lol the garden is sold out bc the knicks fans are die hards let alone that our team is extremley improved. i look forward to knicks fans outnumbering the nets fans at the rock, where “greatness” is displayed. LOL what a freakin joke. btw congrats on KING! HAHAHA.
yes, perfect for Mike's system
like Duhon, overplay him to the point where he is ineffective. NO ONE wanted Felton but the Knicks..
Amare will be paid $26 million in year six of his contract when he will be 33.
HA HA.
what
are you talking about…. who the hell ever said duhon was perfect for mikes system?
duhon was just a stop gap for two years until this sumer. walsh didnt have much options considering he wasnt going to go over the cap…..
can u please answer the rest of my comments instead of just one?
hey, when your a five time all star and a top big in the game, you deserve to get paid. amares knees sure looked fine last year when he played big minutes every game.
can
you please respond to this. and please do not block me. i am just interested in seeing what u have to say.
If you are saying that amare’s knees are not a concern cause he had a full season, He is 27 in 6 years he will have injury problems that s a fact.
Nets picked Favors cause they didn’t like cousins
I won’t defend the billboard (not their brightest monent)
No Wade or LBJ I would rather have small young pieces that over paying second teir players.
Garden is sold out cause of corporate sponsors and the fact it is on an island wth 8 million people. Its not hard to fill up 18000 seats, knick fans are not hapy.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
and no one was going to offer Amar'e that money but the knicks
the guys on nbatv talked about it right after the signing. He signed there so fast entirely because no one else was going to guarantee him that much money.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
sooo....
boozer gets that monster of a deal, joe johnson, rudy, and lee get monster deals yet amare the best player out of all of them shouldn’t….. does not make sense.
Does injury concerns mean nothing to you?
Nobody else that got those monster deals had injury concerns like he does. The Knicks were desperate so they throw money at whoever they can get to maybe lure LeBron
Boozers deal is quite reasonable compared to the other players you mentioned. (75mil/5ys)
And I would say he’s the best player out of the five. Although I suppose you could argue Amare is close. Boozer is a better rebounder. They both have injury concerns, but I would put Stoudamire as a greater risk as he has both of his knees plus his eyes.
Will be very interesting to see how Amare does without Nash. Worked out well for Marion…. ;)
OK.. Here's a Point By Point Reply
1) Like it or not, Amare has had some major work done on his knees, and for a player who’s game is predicated on athleticism, this is a concern. He has also had surgery on his eyes done too if I remember correctly. He has seemingly recovered well from all injuries, but he is a risk non the less for the next 5 years. A very expensive one.
Meanwhile, I think we all know how fragile Harris is but… a. We know have a very capable back up in Farmar and b. Harris is not our franchise player, nor paid like a franchise player.. unlike Amare.
2. Hasn’t Felton only played for Charlotte and always been in a slow paced offense? (Brown or no Brown) Also, doesn’t a D’Antoni system require the PG also be a shooter? I don’t think Felton is. Can he do the pick and roll with Amare we were accustomed to seeing?
3. It was a good trade, but if you did lose him for nothing, you still would have had another $10m or so in salary to spend. You pretty much just chose to use it in a trade rather than on the market.
4. Unlucky or blessing in disguise? Turner may or may not be a franchise talent (Wall is) but clearly the Nets biggest need no matter what was a PF… which they did not get in free agency. We all knew Favors was a project, and while I was a Cousins supporter, I saw the safety and intelligence to draft Favors at the same time. The fact Cousins performed the way he did and Favors the way he did, should not have come as a surprise to any somewhat intelligent NBA fan.
5. It’s a blueprint.. to gain exposure, to improve and to lay the ground work to building a successful team. NJ was one of the most talked about teams in the off-season because of Proky, because of the billboard and because of the rivalry they hope to have with NY. You would not have seen that with Ratner at the helm.
And I’ll tell you right now.. the Nets have improved more this off-season than NY has, as in will have a larger increase in wins than NY will. We may double or triple are win total from last season. I would call that improvement and success.
And to top it all off.. we still have $15m in cap space to improve this season and possibly acquire more future assets like OKC did by helping out cash strapped teams.
We also have all of our 1st and 2nd round picks to look forward to.. in addition to a GS #1 and 2nd rounders from Miami, Chicago and GS. You guys will most likely have to swap your pick with Houston in 2011and then hand them your pick in 2012. So in other words you better hope you do well in free agency and trades, because the draft will not be an option.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 17, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
good points
i know amare has had work on his knees, but so has chris paul and all of you all clamoring for him and devin harris is your only all star, so hes pretty damn important to the team. if brook is your franchise player and can only lead u to 12 wins, that is sad, so im not sure who this franchise player your talking about is. and come on farmar… the lakers did not want him back and they are the defending champions.
felton shot over 45 percent from the field last year. i dont get your point about him not being able to shoot? he can defnitely run the p and r with stat
are you serious with point number 3? there is NO ANTHONY RANDOLPH on the free agent market. this kid is an absolute stud. his potentials limit less. the sky is the limit for him. turiaf and buike and solid as well.
it is not a blessing in diguise. if the nets got pick number one pick they would have had wall. r u seriously comparing the talent of wall and favors… LOL. w the number two pick they could have taken turner and then looked to free agency for a pf, like david. if they needed to overpay who cares… its not like they didnt for outlaw, petro, and etc.
the blueprint is a complete joke. i mean the owner promised a champsionship in 5 years…….lmao
great points about the picks. they do have plenty of those. knicks picks are protected though. top 1 next year, top 5 two years not that that makes a difference. i think u guys picked a bust this year, so the draft does not always work clearly, but non the less u guys have your picks and gs. the knicks do have carmelo anthony coming imo. lala wants to be in ny and melo has expressed his desire to play in manhattan. this is different from lebron considering melo is actually born in brooklyn although he grew up in baltimore and he actually wants to be here.
thank you for your response. u raised good points.
Evan with Melo, your team is going to be nowhere
and Favors would be better than Amare in 2 years.
by Jarkid Shen on Jul 17, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Were not clamoring for Chris Paul
If you read any of our discussions on here a lot of us are scared off by his surgery, it was pretty scary stuff.
alot
of people on hear are clamoring for paul……
and apparently PORKY was in his “plan” but NO wont trade paul.
um who is?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Ok, HereGoes...
1. I don’t think everyone here is clamoring for Paul. I’m not. What it would take to get him, along with the very real chance of losing him in 2 years scares me. I’d much rather go for Deron Williams if Utah fails, but either way… we are not desperate to upgrade PG since Devin as you pointed out has been an all-star and been in the Finals under Avery no less.
And right now, yes Brook is the closest thing we have to franchise player, but we hope Favors will show he is even more so our franchise player. I find it ridiculous you would blame the failures of last years team on a 21 year old, 2nd year player given all the injuries, coaching changes and lack of chemistry. Using that logic all of our players and pure garbage and we should get rid of all of them. If that were true NY hasn’t had a good player in about 8 years.
As for Farmar, a 23 year old with multiple rings is hardly a bad thing. I don’t know why LA and Farmar parted ways, but I won’t complain.
2. I did not think Felton was a quality 3 point shooter, nor have a seen him run a pick and roll before with anyone in Charlotte. Did he run it with Diaw or Gerald Wallace?
3. Like I said, it was a good deal, but Chandler, Azubuike, Turiaff and all your other expirers may not be part of your future so you can target Melo and Paul. So while they may be useful this season, are they really long term players we should be talking about?
4. I specifically compared Favors to Turner and not Wall who I said was a franchise talent. And your point about taking Turner and looking for a FA PF makes so no sense. We did look for a FA PF and could not get one. So if we took Turner we would be left with Kris Humphries and no one else at PF.
5. Do you have a crystal ball? Or did 5 years pass already?
6. Oh, Melo was born in Brooklyn? Interesting.. I think a certain team will be playing there in 2012.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 18, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
and it continues....
1) okay, you are not everyone. most people on this site want paul and right fully so. he is the best or second best pg in the game. devin harris cant shine his shoes. it is apples and oranges. paul not only is a top 1 or 2 pg but he is a top 5 player. harris was an all star and then disappeared last year due to countless injuries and his lack of enthusiasm or so it seemed. nets fans killed harris last year. nah, nothing against brook, he is a solid nba player. i dont think he is a franchise player though, my point. dude farmars is a role player, the guy is a dime a dozen.
2) felton doesnt have to shoot threes. Gallinari led the eastern confernce in 3 pt goals made at the age of 21. r u seriously comparing felton running the pick and roll of felton w amare in comparison to diaw and or wallace.
3) one, two, or all three of them could be a part of this teams future. i personally feel as much as i love chandler he will be moved at the deadline with curry’s expiring contract (huge asset at the deadline), but well see.
4) the nets still have no pf. derrick favors cannot start in the nba. he has no offensive game what so ever. his shot is atrocious.
5) nah, no crystal ball. hey u never know, but playoffs 1 year looks bleak imo.
6) yes i agree melo to brooklyn is def a possibly too although he wants nyc the biggest stage, not brooklyn. according to broussard carmelo is dieing to play in nyc. brooklyn is not nyc, lets make this clear.
Raging incrementalism
NETS have an owner committed to greatness – and willing to put his name (and building sized poster) behind this committment. Making incremental changes to move from 20s something wins to 30 something wins is not part of the plan – maybe Knicks fans should think twice before selling out just to let Mr. Dolan know a better product is needed.
Amare is a great player. But at his best in Phoenix with mega star Nash he could not deliver a championship contender. What makes it more likely at MSG?
Knicks are stuck in no where land. No team to contend. No picks to rejuvenate. No sense of urgency from the fans to drive ownership to change. Lazy mediocrity….sorry for you guys.
lol
dude, Gallinari and Ranolph are absolutle studs. I love these kids. they are both 21! dude, were u saying dolan wasnt committed to winning when the knicks were in the finals in 1999? he is willing to spend whatever it takes. how the hell are the knicks stuck in mediocrity… that is the worst point i have read. knick fans will always sell out…. we support our players. amare and the suns lost in 7 to the lakers who have one of the best players in the history of the nba, not to mention odom, gasol, fisher, artest….. rlly?
Where do you see this team next season?
I personally see as a 7th seed, 1st round knock out. Most unbiased fans see it the same way. You got Chandler and Douglas who dont have much upside but are good rotation guys (well Chandler is). You have AR and Gallo as your guys with upside. Lets say they both keep getting better, and Amare is aging comfortably collecting his fat pay check. So how much higher you think you can jump from that 7th seed? Or do you really think Melo and Paul are coming?
no1 is expecting the knicks to
win an nba championship next year. the whole point of clearing cap space was for flexibility in the next couple of years. if were a 7th seed thats great and then go out and land melo in 2011 ill be stoked. u have to figure if your a 7th seed and add melo (top 5 player in game) u jump atleast to 4. not to mention our young kids will continue to grow. i honeslty believe carmelo anthony is coming. i think its strange paul said he wants to form the big three in ny at carmelos wedding and felton will be expiring then…. just saying.
So i was right, adding Melo and Paul is the plan.
And you still dont get why people crap on the Knicks? Just remember what your plan was for 2010, how many of your fellow Nix fans “honestly believed” Lebum was coming?
no
that is not the plan per say. the plan is having the flexibility to make uneven trades because of cap room and to sign fa. obviousally if you can land on the best players in the game as carmelo is and no1 can deny that, you do that. if you can land chris paul, you do i obviousally.
which is the same plan you have with Lebron
and how did that work?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
you guys have no plan
and you won’t be playing any defense under D’Atoni. Have fun being mediocre and getting the crap kicked out of you by us for the next 10 years bro
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
hahaha @ saying "according to chris broussard"
you might as well have said “well, according to my rear end, Carmelo…”
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Gallo had so many made threes because he took 488 threes! More than any other player in the NBA!
That’s taking over six threes a game. You want to take about shooter, talk about Morrow, who in November will become the greatest 3pt shooter of all time!
And so said the old man!
....
You can’t write off Favors already, he hasn’t even played a game in the league yet. His offense isn’t as “atrocious” as you claim, he already has a decent hook (both left and right hands), not to mention his great work ethic, humble attitude and great athleticism. But like I said, let’s wait till the season to see what happens. Avery is a good coach and will really work with the young fella.
Anthony Randolph MIGHT be great, you don’t know that either. He’s shown flashes, but otherwise is inconsistent and injury prone. Is he gonna play next to Amare in the starting 5 as a PF? Do you move Gallo to the SF position? He can’t guard his own shadow. His potential is endless, but again, you have to wait and see how they use him & if he can stay healthy.
Felton is a solid player, but nothing extraordinary. You are trashing Devin Harris, yet defending Raymond Felton with all your might.
Turiaf is one of my favorite NBA players, and I think he’s honestly the steal of that trade.
The poster is a great idea, it sticks it to our crosstown rival in their neck of the woods – how is that a bad idea? Prokhorov and Jay-Z are a dynamic tag team that will help build the team for the LONG TERM. They might have missed out on the top FA’s this year, but the Nets still have that solid foundation at the top for long-term success.
And sorry, but Knick fans love to do this – eating up all the silly rumors about big name players coming to NYC. Did it with LeBron for three years, now the Melo and CP3 rumors are running wild. The loss of draft picks can’t be overlooked, what if you strike out with the next big batch of FA’s? There are only a couple of young, upcoming players on the Knicks, how are you going to build your team?
In one post, you said Lopez can’t be the franchise guy because he led the Nets to only 12 wins. I disagree – If you watched/followed the Nets closely last year, you would understand that there were a ton of circumstances that really messed our team up. Kiki, who is strictly an executive and not coaching material. didn’t know what to do with the squad. We were so injured for so long that Trenton Hassell had to shoulder part of the scoring on the frontline. Lopez was double and triple teamed night in and night out. With better players & coaches around him, he has the chance to be an All-Star big man. The jury’s still out on him being a franchise guy, I agree, but he definitely has a shot.
Let’s wait to see what happens this year. Hopefully the Nets can get back to playing competitive basketball. Here’s to another eight year streak of more wins!
Hey Gallo! Have you ever hear of a guy named Kenyon Martin who used to play with the best PG in the NBA way back when?
Are you interested in knowing what happened to him?
And so said the old man!
sorry
for the personal attack, i was issued a warning. just here for some intelligent conversation. i cant read the comments….
I find almost nothing to agree with on that Knicks assessment
I get the general hatred for the Knicks among Nets fans, but I could get a less biased assessment of Duke’s basketball team on a UNC blog.
Please Prokhorov never again listen to the fools that told you it was a good idea to retain Rod Thorn
basketball rivalries
knicks vs nets or duke vs unc? make your comparisons and contrasts.
ones a battle of dominance
the other is a battle of suckitude
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
by Gina on Jul 17, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thanks again,
netincome. as always i enjoy these reports. keep up the good work, brother
way off topic but..
samardo samuels looking good in summer league
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
It would be nice to see SOMETHING come out of SL for us.
James Johnson continues to suck it up. What a waste of a 16th pick!
NetIncome rules!
I don’t know his real name, or how old he is, or maybe NetIncome is a she?
It doesn’t matter, what does matter, is that he/she does a great job writing stuff for us to read and consider. He/she is thoughtful and well informed. I think of him/her as a good friend.
Paul from Delray Beach
by PaulErstein on Jul 17, 2010 9:21 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Conor Atchley
has a place in this league…hes playing ok for the kings
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
hey BILLY KING!!!
get on the phone and sign Samardo Samuels!
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Or.....
Cousins was a little exposed. Watching the highlights you can see there is no way he can cover PFs in the NBA. And he will struggle to defend the rim with his limited explosion. Look for him to have some great games but also some bombs over a long season. And I think his shooting is down to about 35% with a number of blocked attempts. Nice player. May still be ROY. But Favors was always the right pick – BPA and best fit for NETS.
bad blood there
Louisville vs. Kentucky
After the slug-fest that took place in the annual game between Louisville and KY. Cardinal players are probably looking for payback especially when it concerns Cousins.
Nono, he's ours! ;)
Can they even legally do that, though? Call players on other teams SL’s and sign them?
THe article was great, but the part that Avery said Terrence is not three made me think
can’t he see an Andre Igoudola in him maybe just a little. If he plays the three he can get his 26+ minutes a game but not at the 2 or 1.
If Terrence is strictly a 1-2 and Lee and Morrow are strictly 2’s while Harris and Farmar run the point Im sorry to say it but Bye Bye T-will.
yeah thats what I don't get
I mean Avery’s seen his ball handling hasn’t he? How can he think he’s a 1?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Neither Morrow, nor Lee nor Farmar are better than TWill.
Avery ACTUALLY praised TWill, what are you people reading?
it's baffling to see people say T-Will is "3rd string"
when none of the players ahead of him are better than him. More experienced? Sure, but talent wise it is a JOKE to even say that Williams behind these guys
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
"is behind"
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
glad to hear that
he seems to be the only one not mentioned on the interview..probably because he’s the only one closest to the sure thing we have..
Yes that was troubling.
coach compares Favors to Durant, ignores Lopez.
Yep
I guess the enxt thing people are reading into Avery’s word is that Lopez is on the block because he said we don’t have a Durant, but that Favors could be that kind of player, while not mentioning Brook… COME ON
The knee jerk stuff that has been going on over the past few days has gotten silly
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, has he gained back the weight he lost due to mono durring the offseason?
And so said the old man!
Etan Thomas
My feeling is Avery Johnson and Billy King would probably bring in a guy like Etan Thomas to play Power Forward. Veteran who can teach those big guys a thing or two.
But I really want Anthony Tolliver.
Anthony Tolliver - Hell Yeah!
Yo JJ25, i posted a fan post a few days ago about him “Another Anthony Could Be Had!” I’m with you, this guy can get us the boards and defense that we need. He can also put some offense…from deep range too. We could get him for dirt cheap, then pair him up with a Favors rotation. Tolliver is not someone who will take away Favor’s growth potential….I think a superstar PF may….just me speaking out loud. But, Tolliver for like 2 million max/year for 2 years, baaaaaammm!
What - Humpries?
No way is he better than Tolliver. I don’t hate hump, he did very well off the bench last season, but his D and range is not as good as Tolliver. I will give Hump an E for Energy, thats for sure. But I think IMO that Tolliver can fit the D and O :)
Humphries is better then Tolliver in everyway besides 3 point shooting.
Actually, check that. Tolliver is the Antoine Walker of 3 point shooting. I’d rather have humphries shoot 5 20 footers then Tolliver shoot 3s.
All I can say is......
Do the Hump -T – Hump….
At a decent price you get both...
Since we overpay a bit anyway Lock Tolliver up for 3 years at 8 mil. Not bad at all. Now your DEEP at PF. You have 3 guys to man the spot and Tolliver gives you a little “stretch” 4. And when Favors is ready you haven’t overpayed for his “backups”
The NETS are coming!
I am enthralled about the program that Avery Johnson gave to Devin Harris
I want to see a much more stronger Harris !!! He will be very good !!!
And they’ll get a defensive rating sheet after every game".
And people balked at this hiring.
This man is all business. Whip them into shape, Avery
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
who balked at his hiring?
besides the people who balk at everything the mets do because they think Prokhy is the antichrist.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Defensive rating sheet is a GREAT idea.
But there are some fan favorites that will loose a bunch of minutes if Avery actually sticks to these.
Doesn't matter
Most important thing is everyone gets it drilled into their brains that if they want to play, they’re gonna have to play defense
Thats what i mean.
That will happen IF he sticks to it.
Considering we had 1 guy playing defense last year, and some of the new guys like Outlaw, Morrow aren’t exactly known for their D, Avery might have to fall back a bit or not play the “best” players.
I didn't like the hiring
Still don’t, but I keep trying to find the positives in things while giving him a clean slate.
Please Prokhorov never again listen to the fools that told you it was a good idea to retain Rod Thorn
He has strong opinions
And a real attitude. Seems to pick favorites. Ignores Lopez, basically disses TWill in context, elevates Harris and Favors to superstar status.
this is a bit extreme, don't you think?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Avery has not uttered a bad word about T-Will
and if he is harder on T-Will than he is the other players, that means that he sees potential in Terrence and wants to get the best out of him.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Rewind Avery and Devin in Dallas
Tough love…..TWILL is to old to coddle….Avery will push him and if he responds you get a Devin growth curve…..if he does not you get a trade.
This is very consistent with Avery liking TWILL and wanting him to succeed and (surprising for the NETS over the past few years) being prepared to coach him up on the court and between the ears.
question for net income
why do you take the nets off season and compare it to the knicks? what does comparing it to the knicks do for you? is being better than the knicks your goal or winning a championship?
what
are you talkign about? i asked you about your obsession with the knicks. i didn’t ask your opinion on the knicks.
lol
the sad part is the rivalry only exists to nets fans. when u are as bad as we were for the past 10 years there really are no rivals but if anything chicago and miami were…. not nj.
why not talk about your other rivals…. why only the knicks.
exactly.
Knicks fans kill me with their nonsense.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
And you're right. We've been wiping the floor with the Knicks for the past 10 years
We even beat you twice in our WORST SEASON EVER. So you’re right, there is no rivalry yet, lets hope you can actually be good some time soon so there can be one.
they
both have zero championships, which is all that matter imo.
Yet we were a playoff team for 6 years, while the Knicks haven't reached 40 wins in a decade
I think that counts a teeeny little bit in terms of determining whose been relatively better over the past few years
I mean, the Dallas Mavericks have had zero championships over that span as well, but they've won at least 50 games the entire time
I think that counts for something. Are you gonna say the Knicks have been on the same level as the Mavs too?
Fact is, the title has been claimed by only 5 different franchises the last 10 years. Are the Knicks on the same level as the 25 other teams as well?
to me
2nd is the first loser. if you do not win a championship it means nothing. ask marc cuban how he feels. pretty sure he will say it means nothing until they win it all…..
lbj won all them games in clevland, yet hes gone.
is it frustrating being a knicks fan?
its such a poorly ran franchise last couple of years.
thanks to rod thorn…nets are looking great…lets just hope bill king can continue….maybe build something special.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
So allow me to confirm,
You’re saying the Knicks have been as good (or as bad) as the Mavericks (10 straight 50 win seasons, 10 straight playoff berths, 3 60 win seasons, one 67 win season, one trip to the NBA Finals) for the last 10 years?
This isn't about absolute success, it's about relative success
Relative to the Knicks, the Nets have been awesome the last 10 years. We haven’t been stuck between 23 and 39 wins for the last 10 years.
Not to mention all the other stuff. We haven’t had sexual harassment lawsuits, haven’t been spying on reporters in the arena, haven’t given away all our draft picks till the year 3000, haven’t paid a guy 11 million to not play
that's why you guys were talking a bunch of garbage...
….about the Nets over there on “posting and toasting”?
You guys were running your mouths about the Nets en masse during the whole free agent scramble. Talking crap about us left and right…spare me with your dishonesty.
Don’t listen to this guy folks…they couldn’t help but keep the word “Nets” in their mouths the entire time. They think about us more than they think, hence, they are over here trying to start stuff. Seeing that we’ve owned them for a decade and probably will continue to own them in the 2010’s, I can’t blame them for feeling threatend by us.
These guys talk a lot of trash about us, yet, we beat them twice, once by a BLOWOUT. Yet, Knicks fans are quick to say “12-70”. I cannot wait until we play them.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
please
refer to theknicksblog.com. i do not use posting and toasting. theknicksblog.com is the best blog for knicks basketball. dude who cares if you beat us twice…u had 12 wins. again this is your obsession with comparing the nets to knicks rather than comparing the nets to all other nba teams.
u care more about the nets being better than knicks than the nets winning an nba championship and thats a fact.
It's kind of like what NY did with the LBJ presentation, but the opposite
NY mentioned Chicago, LAC, Miami, Cleveland and Chicago in their presentation to LeBron, but would not mention NJ, since they realized we could offer everything and more. And no, it’s not because we had no chance, if that were true they would not have mentioned LAC.
We’re not afraid to mention our local competition both on the court and in the market.
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 18, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
The Only Time NY Mentioned NJ
Was to call the league office and complain about the billboard since it “intimidated” their employees!
LOL
by Jack Handy Jr on Jul 18, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Because......
That’s what Net Incomes job is here…….We all compare…You are comparing to the Nets right now….NI does our comparing out loud……
GALLO
NI clearly explained why he posted the thing about the knicks…because knicks fans (like you) have come here to brag about how knicks are having a better offseason than the nets.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
which is laughable
They bid against themselves for Amare Stoudemire.
They’ll be sick to their stomachs when they realize that they are paying this guy $100 million to let people run right by him to the rim
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Why is a Knicks fan on this board....just sayin :)
I guess there’s no one at the Knicks board? J/K :)
NETS ALL DAY…………..EVERYDAY!
my friend
told me who is a nets fan, that they crap on the knicks… im hear to defend the knickerbockers.
Go on the Timberwolves website. They crap on the Knicks too.
In fact, i’m pretty sure there is not a single fan base in the league that doesn’t crap on the Knicks.
by milosh on Jul 18, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
as if you guys don't talk crap about us
come on now
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm confused.......
Who are these “Knicks” that you all are talking about ?……Is this a Basketball Team ??…In the NBA ?…..Is the NBA expanding again ??…Because they sure can use a Basket ball team in New York…..That’s a great idea…..
all i know is the knicks just dropped the dime on a PF that would be good for an already contending team, but he is going to do nothing but maybe get the knicks a first round exit, they dont have the team to surround him with. Now on the other hand the nets may have “struck out” in free agency, but they drafted a potential stud at PF who could be the next amare, have a very good young core, and have a lot of cap space. nets have the better equation for a championship team
Oh come on now.
First off let me state that I am a Nets super fan… obviously, I am on this site. I will never understand the downright blindness aimed at the Knicks. I don’t live in NY/NJ so maybe that has something to do with it, but its laughable. Everyone completely discounts them as complete failures, and this thread above is just laughable.
the Knicks will start one All-Star (with problem knees) in Amar’e Stoudemire; two young 6’11" swingmen, Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph, with yet unrealized potential
Really? Maybe Amare should just retire then? And Gallinari is nothing more or less then he was brought there to be, a shooter. Randolph played for Nelly, who has no idea what he is doing, and when given minutes he puts out astronomical numbers. Look at the rotations for the Warriors last season, they used no more then 7 players a game, ever!
All I see is blind hatred, and it reminds me an awful lot like listening to a Red Sox fan talk about the Yankees, or a Pats fan talk about about the Jets…. annoying.
i live in Nj
and i dont see what the hatred is about either
This does seems kinda of bias
I mean lets be honest.
I’m a Nets fan but how do you mention Amare who played the whole season but praise Devin Harris who has been injury prone since his days in Dallas.
Amare is at least consider one of best power forwards in the league. While Devin is not even among the top ten.
The Knicks off season was better than the Nets that’s the truth.
They have improve their teams where other stars have starting taking notice.
We can’t talk about the Knicks overpaying for Amare but what did we do for a bench player??
The Knicks have at least address their needs. The Nets couldn’t garner interest from outside free agents. As it is known no major free agent has sign with the Nets and will continue to be the way. While the Knicks have players like CP3 and Melo taking notice.
The Nets on the other hand draft pick is 3 or 4 years from where they want him to be and that’s if he gets to that level. He could very well fall short.
We are hoping that he can at least be half the player Amare will be. The Knicks on the other hand went out and got that player we are hoping Favors will be.
This is the only place where I seen where people actually think the Nets had a better off season than the Knicks.
I understand supporting your team but being bias?
The truth is the truth no matter what
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 1:50 AM EDT reply actions
Do the knicks actually have CP3 and Melo taking notice?
are there any sources or reports of this?
Also CP3 won’t be a free agent for 2-3 years.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
the only sources for this garbage are Knicks fans
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
It's about time
that the Knicks start to unload contracts like Amare’s in order to have cap space to offer Brook, Favors and TWill a max deal!
C'mon Son!!!
Your whole off season was just as everyone else’s was you dint get Lebron. The Nets made a presentation the Knicks begged and groveled. LOL.
You got Amare for 100 million and he wasn’t the heart of his team Steve Nash is and was and has the 2 MVP trophies to prove it. Amare’s numbers will suffer without Nash. Ray Felton is NOT Nash. Ray Felton isn’t even Devin Harris. But you lost David Lee the better rebounder. You also lost Al Harrington. Let’s see if Anthony Rudolph puts up 20ppg.
Gallo is a 21year old 6 foot 10 guy with a bad back already who still managed to take almost 500 3 pointers. That doesn’t make him great just kinda silly. Yi had better rebounding #‘s…. lol. Anthony Randolph is a “Stud” if he is so is T-Will. And Anthony Morrow is now the best shooter in the area.
And the Russian Center? Only choose the Knicks because he didn’t want to play behind Brook Lopez.
Knicks Fans Go back to your own boards and just try to make the Playoffs..
The NETS are coming!
yes
there have been many reports at Melo wedding that their was a toast.
According to a person who spoke with wedding attendee Amar’e Stoudemire, Paul made the reference during a speech of a potential union of himself, Stoudemire and Anthony, saying, “We’ll form our own Big 3,” Paul allegedly said.
Attendee Spike Lee nearly passed out at the suggestion.
The Knicks may not have to wait until 2012. The Knicks have an alternate plan as they stockpile a lot of tradeable assets.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/me_amar_and_melo_BU8MzS41wIdwRYLU1D7NTJ#ixzz0u0le8zFD
Now I know many will say this he and she say but lets be honest had this been mention about the Nets people would be going crazy and the possibility is not that crazy. Denver has been going down ever since losing to the Lakers in the WCF and the Hornets have been angering Paul with their lack of movement.
The point is the Knicks are making moves that other star players are taking notice.
They are on the right road. Melo had his wedding in NY. LaLa is from and lives in NY. So it would be expected that he would like to play in New York.
Name a player who had a stronger second half of the season than Amare?
The Knicks have set their team up to be players and to improve.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 2:12 AM EDT reply actions
Do you honestly believe in this reports??
The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..
by silenthero07 on Jul 18, 2010 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
why not?
Remember how this site was when Lebron was rumor to be coming here???
As I said these players are friends. We all seen how three players who were friends and wanted to play together went.
Look at James Bosh and Wade.
You don’t think Melo Paul and Amare are above doing the same thing?
You think the Knicks can’t make it happen.
Instead of asking do I believe ask why shouldn’t I?
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
what tradeable assets have the knicks stockpiled
and for the 10,000 time Paul won’t be a free agent for 2-3 years.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Come on GUYS this is the NETSDAILY BLOG.
What do you expect NI and ND applauding the Knicks’ off season???
The NETS is like my own sense of direction..
The MAGIC made me realize that one..
I remember a columnist criticized Brook Lopez will be a bust or garbage.
And what now? Now many people thinks Favors will be a bust or what. Maybe they will disappoints again.
Who is saying he will be a bust?
I’m saying people are dogging the Knicks for signing Amare but at the same time we are hoping Favors will be come half the player Amare will be.
At the same time lets be honest remember how excited people were on Sean Williams, Marcus Williams and should I continue?
I can not fault the Knicks for getting a great player. We don’t know if Favors will be Amare or Tyrus Thomas but we do know one thing it will be years before he is ready.
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 2:17 AM EDT reply actions
You Didnt ADD Amare to David Lee
You Replaced him and got maybe 3 more points and 3 less rebounds…
How do you get 2 players Star players with No draft picks? You Think Melo, Cp3, Lopez and wouldn’t be a nice big 3 in a shiny brand new Brooklyn Arena? With a Coach who got a team to the finals?
Let’s remember how much Lebron talked up the Knicks before Landing in Miami. The Knicks big 3 is all talk till it happens.
The NETS are coming!
For those who keeps dwelling on Cousins....
Just give you the words.
Defense wins the championship.
Cousins is way better than Favors in scoring. But Favors is way better a quicker defender and maybe a rebounder.
Cousins' recent game stats
10 points
7 rebounds
5 fouls
3 tos
3/15 shooting FG
and he got posterized for 3 times. Just check out the hightlight
http://www.nba.com/summerleague/games/20100717/SACCHI/gameinfo.html
He won’t keep the speed with NBA forwards in the NBA.
by Jarkid Shen on Jul 18, 2010 2:29 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
This post should be REC'D
Where is Jerry and the other Cousins fanatics, that were gushing over him a few days ago?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
There are TONS of veteran big men and point guards left in free agency
with Horford, Marc Gasol and Landry…all unrestricted next yr….i would hold off any trade for a big…and instead sign craig smith, a veteran big and a veteran pg
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Craig Smith is the top big man left in free agency
I dont think that warrants saying there are TONS of veteran big man. There is nothing but trash left.
Hey Net Income
Why didn’t you quote Avery’s words when he said that he already got an idea of how to utilize TWill? Or when he said he thinks TWill has made some defensive strides?
I hear what Avery had to say about TWill and it’s mostly good things.
Read the tea leaves
Avery gushes when he talks about Favors and James and even Lee and Outlaw, but his tone with TWill is so flat and a bit like he is scolding him. He’d love to trade him.
Also, NI is down playing the Knicks’ roster. They pulled off a good trade with Golden State and added some active and athletic bodies. Randolph can be a really good player. They are way better than last year and didn’t lose 70 games like us. We have much more ground to make up.
how does he gush when he talks about Lee?
He barely mentioned him. You people are unbelivable. UNBELIEVABLE. How can you have come to the conclusion that Avery would love yo trade TWill from this interview is beyond me. It’s getting comical. Seriously. He praises him. He talks good things about him. Give me a break.
THE NEXT PERSON!!!.....
To calls Favors the next Amare should be slapped with white powder. Favors rebounds and plays defense nuff’ said (Amare’ is a bum!)
by nwkiddnj on Jul 18, 2010 9:14 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
amen!
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 18, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I've always said
I never understand that comparison. Favors’ strengths are Amare’s weaknesses and viceversa.
rec'd
Defense (see Boston, LA, SA, Detroit chip teams…) wins. I hope Favors will play defense and rebound, the two biggest keys to a chip.
Well lets be honest.
You shouldn’t compare Favors to Amare because Amare has won rookie of the year, all nba team, has a career average of 21 and 8.9.
Favor has yet to play an NBA game.
Lets wait and see what the kid do before we compare what he can or can’t do to Amare.
At the end of day Favors hopes and pray he has a career similar or even a quarter of Amare
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 18, 2010 10:03 AM EDT reply actions
The Nets believe
that by year three, Favors will be better than Stoudemire or Bosh.
They are that high on him.
They liked James but are surprised at how good he looked in Orlando.
In order, I think they like Outlaw, Farmar, Morrow and Petro. Do not dismiss Farmar’s talents. They will play the two of them together.
I would be surprised at any trade in the next few weeks. The GM is brand new and hasnt really talked at length with the coach about the roster. I would expect other teams are calling King with offers right now to gauge where he stands on specific players and in general.
I hope they keep TWill, but I do believe that Johnson is not a big fan. I believe he is a big fan of Lee because Lee plays defense and has played in an NBA Final. The Nets back court now is three guys who have played in five NBA Finals. (Farmar has also played in an NCAA Final and the California state final in high school)
I agree Farmer is under appreciated
He was a misfit in the LA triangle. He is athletic and aggressive. GIven his age and contract you can expect him to push really hard which should improve the second squad immensely and make practice more interesting.
I'm hoping that Favors......
will be there by the end of this year…….He has a sweet ,fluent, trademark kind of Hook/Floater/Fade Away unlike any shot I’ve ever seen in the NBA especially from a Big Man……Looks almost impossible to Block and he seems to have alot of confidence in that shot……..Once he establishes his post position and the ball is fed into him , lookout…A very high percentage shot…….Add two more things…….Lopez is in there and let’s not forget Favors Thunderous Dunks……..Oh ,Add TWILL’s talents…….Would that be cool or what…Favors and James turn out to be Superstars…We are due…..Let’s see……Hmmmm……Do I want a young Kevin Garnett or an old Amare…..
I hope they keep TWill, but I do believe that Johnson is not a big fan. I believe he is a big fan of Lee because Lee plays defense and has played in an NBA Final.
Avery has praised TWill. Avery has barely mentioned Lee. When he did, it was to say he could be beaten out of the starting line up. I don’t get why people assume things like this. I guess everyone is assuming and reading what they want into what Avery says or doesn’t.
sigh
weren’t you done discussing with me? I’m getting tired of you attacking me without bringing ANYTHING to this discussion. I didn’t make up anything. People assuming TWill will be behind of inferior players are, or people assuming things Avery didn’t said nor meant when he said all the contrary are.
maybe
How about getting Chris Wilcox, Etan Thomas,Vladimir Radmonovic, or Theo Ratliff at the starting power forward position?
My last words on TWill
(last words because I’ve said enough on this topic and I need to move on…)
TWill looks to be an 11th man for Avery this season. If they can find a way to move him for a starter such as Ilyasova, they should do it. Trading an 11th man for a starter is a no-brainer. Plus a guy like Ilyasova could be a solid reserve PF for many years. That’s why I want the Nets to trade TWill — it’s not because “I hate him” as I have been accused or because I want to “tie a noose around him” as I’ve been accused or because I can’t recognize talent. The guy will be an 11th man on our team, and history has shown him to pout when he isn’t given the opportunity to be “the man” on his basketball team. This will lead him further down the rabbit hole into Avery’s dog house, and his trade value will deplete. Now is the perfect opportunity to trade TWill. In fact, if you are a fan of the guy, you should want him to be traded to an organization where he will get some free reign to play as he wants to and where he will get some playing time. It’d be best for him personally and best for the Nets. TWill is going to be riding pine this season, and if we can trade him for a starting PF such as Ilyasove, it will fill a need, enhance our chemistry by getting rid of a potential cancer, and retain our cap space for a blockbuster trade later on.
In short, it’s a no brainer, imo. That’s why I want to trade TWill.
And with that, I will refrain from posting more on this matter unless something additional develops on it.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local

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