Avery in Charge?
by Net Income on Jul 15, 2010 11:23 AM EDT
152 comments
Once Rod Thorn let it be known that he was departing the Nets scene, it became obvious that a vacuum existed. Into it, stepped man whose short stature belies the scale of his ambitions.
Increasingly, Avery Johnson looks to be the main power broker in Netsland.
Tara Sullivan of the Record describes Johnson as "a man of deep influence, not only for player selection, but in the hiring of incoming GM Billy King, who will be introduced at a news conference today. Insiders quickly are noticing the force Johnson can be."
Ken Berger of CBS Sports isn't sure it's a good thing. "[Johnson] is calling the shots and wants a figurehead GM to execute his personnel decisions, the way King did for Larry Brown in Philly." He quotes a source saying "He's got the Russians loving him. They think he walks on water." As Mikhail Prokhorov told NetsDaily, Johnson is a "killer coaching coach".
- Nets, Avery Johnson not happy as a runner-up - Tara Sullivan - The Record
- Weber's decision to fire GM hurts Hornets, alienates Paul - Ken Berger - CBS Sports
- Nets hire Billy King as new GM (Video) - Gary Apple - SNY
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This is exactly what I fear
Does Avery have the scouts to be successful? The number guys a GM needs to win in today’s league?
Managing a team isn’t easy, very few can do it right. I haven’t seen anything from Avery to think he’s the right guy.
If it works, it works
it it doesn’t, you hope it’s recognized early.
he’s not the first coach to want more power.
+1
exactly
We don’t know where this will take us.
All I know is that Avery has a winner’s mentality, is a winning coach, and is an NBA Champion. I wouldn’t mind if the franchise took on that kind of mentality from the front office down to the last man on the bench.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see it as Avery "wanting power"
I see it as Proky believing in Avery and putting him in the best position to succeed. People are so quick to ascribe to ugliest motivations to everything. sad.
This was all done backwards.
It’s important that a GM and coach have a similar vision. But a GM should be able to implement that vision from the top down. That’s why a GM should hire/select the coach. I want a GM who can dedicate their time to studying the league, planning for the draft, and monitoring the CAP position while maintaining a distance from the team that will afford objectivity while evaluating the talent on his own team. The GM should also have absolute control over personnel decisions (this does not mean he doesn’t request input from the coach).
If the coach has final say or more say than the GM then this can screw up the whole process. A coach doesn’t have enough time to scout the whole league like a GM. A coach is also too close to his own players to objectively compare them to the talent around the league.
What makes me sick about this whole thing though is that Billy King is a shitty GM anyway. If Billy King is making the decisions – WE’RE SCREWED. If Avery Johnson is making the decisions – WE’RE SCREWED.
With Prok I was truly excited about the outlook for the Nets (even after last year). But starting with the draft lottery nothing has gone right for this team.
by johnnutz on Jul 15, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So...WE'RE SCREWED.
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 15, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It better be about winning...
..not power.
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 15, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but after being promised a change of culture
i’d rather not have to sit through another 2-3 years of disaster before they decided it doesn’t work.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
yeah but I didn't want them to do insane things
like trading t-will for a stop gap pf on an expiring contract to achieve it. There’s a difference between being bad by design, and just being bad. If we waste young assets to achieve the same goal, then it’s kind of pointless.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Relax man, no worries
Avery got a draft bust like DeSagana Diop to produce for him in Dallas, turned Josh Howard into an NBA All-Star, & discovered decent role players like JJ Barea & Pops Mensah-Bonsu. His coaching & eye for talent is top notch but as far DRAFTING players he’s been so-so to say the least. But i think it was because during the years he was in Dallas there were very weak draft classes & at the end of each round there wasn’t a lot to chose from. I don’t think that will be the case in the Garden State. Either way it’s great to see, Frank just went along with anything Rod, Ed, & Kiki gave him to work with & as we all know “a closed mouth don’t get fed”.
by KozyWorld973 on Jul 15, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Reminds me of Parcells
Avery is eliminating everyone who is not his guy and bringing in people who really don’t have enough stature to be independent centers of power. It looks like they’re eliminating any personnel with any tie to the Thorn Frank regime, save the obvious all star in Lopez. They seem to be squeezing TWill out by filling every roster position that he could fill. CLee is still there true but I wonder how long. Avery has his loyal PG, for better or worse, like Parcells always had his guys. It’s a mediocre roster except for Brook but maybe you need to have this kind of dominant leader to make a mediocre roster achieve.
Parcells had a pretty clear vision...
… of the kind of players needed to achieve his goals. Remains to be seen if Avery does.
Most of the roster would’ve been turned over anyway. Having depth is a good thing, unless you liked those 8 man rotations Frank was forced to play early last season. TWill is going to have to earn his place in the rotation. Not a bad thing- at worst, should make for some competitive practices, and maybe some of that spills out onto the floor.
Parcells
and Belichick learned together what it takes to win which is everyones goal. IF, IF Avery knows what it takes then give him the power for personel. So far the draft looks good and that to me was his first test. The FAs that came since he arrived are role players imo.
I think it’s great that Avery is involved… But I don’t think it’s good for him to be in charge. Proky isn’t blind… I guess hes ok with it.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
by Andy. on Jul 15, 2010 11:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Too early to tell? I’ll be curious how things play about between AJ and BK. I don’t think BK is just going to roll over. He has too much experience now.
King
Did you hear him talk, he was out of the NBA 3 years. He talked like he would never get another job, I think he will go easy and not pick fights at first.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
this
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Billy King basically said no sane NBA club would hire him
He knew he didn’t do a great job in Philly, and he didn’t think any franchise would give him another chance.
Sad state of affairs
Avery has done nothing to warrant this type of control over a team that is in dire straits to say the least. What a complete joke this has become once again. Letting Rod go will prove ot be yet another major mistake in the Ratner-Prokhorov regime, mark it down.
atBl3ach
up until this week, Rod still left the door open to return if you read his quotes – how is it not blatantly obvious he was awiting a better contract offer at this point??? Come on already.
Issac:
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 15, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you would complain regardless
who are we kidding here Isaac?
If Rod wasn’t leaving, you’d lump him in with the “Ratner-Prokhorov regime” and toss him under the bus too
Either you’re a fan of this team or not bro. But everyday it’s the same thing and it’s annoying.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
It's annoying to me
that you think this team is actually building towards something when it is quite obvious this season and the one after are both likely to be a disaster. They simply don’t care how this tam fares while it is in New Jersey and it is despicable.
If it's annoying you, then stop supporting it
Then come back if you feel it’s worth supporting, for EVERYONE’s sake.
"Beat the Heat!"
the Nets has King n James
If that were true, why would Prokhorov promise playoffs this year?
If we have another bad year, heads will roll, unlike the last few years where we just accepted mediocrity.
if they weren't building towards something or didn't want to be competitive now
they wouldn’t have signed players that addresses needs to improve the team, and would have done as some folks wanted and kept the roster full of holes, allowed for Lopez and Harris to get smothered defensively AGAIN this year, and would have easily fielded a team full of young players and d leaguers that would have qualified for another top 3 pick. What you’re saying and what the reality of the situation is are TWO totally different things.
You rarely, if ever, contribute positively to any discussions on here…..I’ve always sympathized with your position about the Nets staying here but face facts: No one wanted to play here. We have a history of being LOSERS. Prokhorov is trying to change that and I support him 100%.
I mean, you can either sit back, and wait to see if your worst fears are confirmed, or you can stop following this team. But you’re annoying the heck out of us on here everyday with the same nonsense bro, cut the crap.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for weighing in Net Income
If only I were allowed to post my feelings towards you.
if you wish, go ahead
but be forewarned, 1) we don’t permit personal attacks and it could get you banned and 2) look up the term “mutually assured destruction”.
you don't have to remind me Net Income
about # 1 or else you would have known I feel a long time ago. As for # 2 is this some kind of threat???
Please just stop or GET OFF THIS SITE NOW!
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Jul 15, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
same old, same old
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 15, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Isaac
i think you need to trademark “what a complete joke” and “this team is garbage” so you can get royalties when they are used on this board!
sounds like a plan Hab
both terms likely to be used quite often this season.
When we win our 12th game
meet me in section 120, i’ll buy you a beer and give you a Nets mini basketball.
I know I shouldn't feed into this but...
First of all, I find Isaac’s and N.I.’s beef funny in a “comedy of the absurd” kind of way.
Second of all, Isaac, have you ever posted a list of players you feel the Nets should go after who would make you happy? You know, like trade proposals and the like? We all know you are displeased with the current direction of the franchise. But what exactly is your remedy? Please be specific with your proposed transactions, front office moves, etc.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
Yea, he wants Coach K
Coach K would solve all our problems!!!!
If not Coack K, I’m sure he’d be cool with Dwayne Schintzius
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
Whine, whine, whine...
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 15, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't mind
Bottom line is that if there is not improvement and playoffs in two or three years he’s gone. Bad new is that he may scare off big name free agents.
the name "Nets" scares off big name free agent
so I don’t see what the problem is here.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
another good thing is that the players on the team cannot go over his head
His word will be the final word
completely unfounded DollarBills
Kidd, RJ and Carter all re-signed here when they had the chance to bolt. The team was building towards something until Ratner came in and made it clear there was no emphasis on basketball. Apparently the current crop of free agents was able to see through Prokhorov and his alterior motives too.
I know the way KMart was dealt was awkwardly executed
but in the grand scheme of things, I was ok with it at the time and still am. JKidd, KMart, and RJ made their run — actually, we made it with Van Horn and we weren’t good enough to get over the final hurdle. Then we retooled and tried it with Kidd, Martin, and RJ and we still weren’t quite good enough. There is no reason to believe, judging from history, that Kidd and Martin would ever have gotten over that hump. Kidd got injured late the following year. Was the front office supposed to keep trying and trying again “maybe next year” in hopes of somehow breaking through with a five-man squad that had peaked? I would say no. Utah kept trying and trying with Stockton and Malone and never got over the final hurdle. Phoenix this year miraculously made another run with Nash at the helm, but still couldn’t get over the hurdle.
Then Thorn tried to retool with Kidd and VC and it too failed. Yes, I know some of this “retooling” resulted from financial difficulties necessitated by the selling of the team and/or (before that) a change in ownership. Still, Thorn kept trying to tweak this, tweak that, and it was inevitably bound to fail. History teaches us this. Nash will never break through, just as Stockton never broke through. Kidd never did and never will break through. It’s just the way it is.
Thus, I was glad to see the “dismantling” of this team — actually, looking back on 10 years of Thorn, I’m disappointed we didn’t “overhaul” and “dismantle” enough, because we stuck with Kidd for a long time, when in our heart of hearts I and probably you reading this knew he and we were never going to break through.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
no.
The key word is resigned. We only had those players because of trades, and bird rights. Kidd would have bolted on us for San Antonio if it wasn’t for the money and his wife.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree about Kidd
but the bottom line is he didn’t bolt. He forced his way out however after Ratner made it quite clear he could care less about the direction of the team or fielding a winning basketball team. The decision to re-sign Vince under his watch was done so his failing Brooklyn project did not continue to lose steam. He needed Vince to at least help keep the team afloat because at the time he was still planning to move the team to Brooklyn in much quicker fashion.
Carter was traded for and resigned under Ratner
Jefferson resigned under Ratner.
Get whatever facts you use straight.
what alterior motives?
TBH i think a man of Proky’s wealth, prob doesn’t but too much stock into the money he’d gain from BK. To me he seems a competitor, and he will perform like one. It’s far too early to make any type of conclusion as to how this team will perform. We ARE heading in the RIGHT direction. There are people here, me included, that wanted some huge splash, but that was then, this is now. You can’t be approaching all of life’s challenges with this half glass empty attitude. Lucky for you, it’s just basketball which reigns low in the ladder of life.
ok then Hab
if it isn;t about the money to be made from the Brooklyn project, why doesn’t he announce a permanent stay in the near brand new arena he already has at his disposal. If that happens, you won’t hear another complaint about him from me.
because......
the agreement to purchase the Nets from Rat included stipulations to ensure the BK project goes through. So i say to you, 1.) Enjoy the Nets for the AT LEAST 2 years they are here. They are still a NJ team, playing in NJ for NJ and NY fans for now. 2.) The BK moves seems almost inevitable, would you want Ratner or Proky at the helm of this team. Answer me that question, there is no third answer of “stay in NJ”, which one would you want…start with baby steps.
Sit back and relax
We’re all hoping here that the NETS that’s going to play in Newark will be competitive.
They’re not done dealing yet.
"Beat the Heat!"
the Nets has King n James
I am actually happy about this
This is an improvement over the past few years, when Rod Thorn would go out and sign free agents that couldn’t succeed in Lawrence Frank’s system. The Nets were a collection of mismatched parts and it often seemed as though there wasn’t enough coordination between the coach and the front office. A team needs a consistent plan—and that starts with defining the team’s preferred style of play, and making sure you fill the roster with players that can achieve it. It seems to me that this approach started with the drafting of Favors over Cousins. It appears as though Avery wants a collection of young, quick, athletic players, quite possibly to take advantage of Devin’s skill set. Could we see a return to the style of play that the Nets used during their finals runs? They have the personnel for it.
by Dumpy on Jul 15, 2010 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
agreed
I’ve been thinking about Johnson in comparison to Frank of late. Frank didn’t have a cohesive team (perhaps “draft for talent not for need” wasn’t the best strategy after all) and Frank didn’t have the kind of assistants and resources that Johnson will have. So Johnson is in a much better position to succeed than Frank was. Perhaps that was Frank’s fault. He was too willing to just go along with whatever team Ratner and Thorn were willing to field. Johnson’s taken the bull by the horns.
+1
He’s gonna get NBA head coach position soon. Maybe even this season.
by Belarus4life on Jul 15, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL!!!
I heard that when he got fired.
People said he would get a head coaching job quickly for the up coming season. Some said he would get a Head Coaching Job before the end of last season. None of that has happened yet.
How many open Head Coaching positions are left?
hahhah yeah
People were saying that Frank would have a job ASAP….. Last time I saw him he was sitting on the sidelines with Doc Rivers watching the Boston SL Team, probably hoping to be brought in as an assistant.
Guess we weren’t the only ones in the league who noticed his shortcomings, even with the bad rosters he had to deal with.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Net Income, what happened to Frank's new coaching job
After repeated re-clarifications, you recently said Frank would be hired in some NBA coaching capacity upon free agency. Yup, we’re still sitting around waiting for that day.
I bet he takes the assistant job in Boston
Then takes over for Rivers as the team begins falling apart. Poor Lawrence. He’s really a good coach.
Come On Dumpy,
Why is Frank being named here? lol!
Frank was a terrible coach. What parts are you talking about? If You mean a PF like K-Mart. So basically for Frank to succeed he needed Byron Scotts Finals Teams to win.
Avery is a far superior coach then Frank. He has an actual presence and he has accomplished something with a team with underachievers and misfits unlike Frank.
One thing I agree with you is Avery should have some say. Pop has done a great job at doing both Coach and GM. If Pop is Avery’s mentor and Avery follows his blueprint, We should be ok.
Dumpy isn't defending Frank
He is saying that the front office is actually getting the coach the type of players that he needs for his system instead of signing or bringing in a bunch of garbage that the coach can’t use. Like the starting PF for the past two seasons.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Just off the top of my head, the Nets went out and signed players like Scott Padgett and Lamond Murray who didn’t have the game to play with Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson. It was if they started with thoroughbreds and Thorn surrounded them with old plowhorses. Also, Frank was determined to preach defense, and Thorn consistently acquired players that could not play defense, and thus were out of the rotation entirely within weeks.
by Dumpy on Jul 15, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed 100% and rec'd
This is the first summer in ages where the Nets have made moves to actually improve the roster and fitting it to the coach’s designs.
It’s amazing what new ownership that wants to win will do.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we get a different picture of Avery & Proky
I’m getting a little tired of seeing Avery laughing next to Proky with his smirk. And just what is Avery pointing at?
I think they were on the jumbotron
and Avery was pointing out a mole on Prokhorov’s jawline.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
It's very important that the coach and front office are on the same page
Since Avery was hired first, it only follows that he has an input if he can work with the prospective GM candidate.
If the GM or President got hired first, it’s natural that they will hire a coach whose vision is compatible to theirs.
Moreover, I would say that it’s a good thing that the coach will have his opinions heard regarding the players.
It would be frustrating if the front office will add or trade a player without consulting the coach.
That’s Avery’s issues with the Mavs when they traded for JKidd. So maybe he doesn’t want that to ever happen again.
"Beat the Heat!"
the Nets has King n James
question
when coaches + gm’s get fired from getting millions, do they collect unemployment…King didn’t work for a couple years..welfare? Unemployment. Job skill-Coach/GM desired salary -3 mill
Unemployment benefits have a cap
I believe the formula is half of your paycheck up to $400 a week..
Is Billy king really respected aroud the league?if so, the nets will be ok.
"I want to win, I want the team to win and I'm in complete control."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
by Andy. on Jul 15, 2010 12:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Not really respected, but has the connections
and that’s one of the things Mikhail wants, that’s why it’s limited to those with experience.
"Beat the Heat!"
the Nets has King n James
To me...
…it just makes Avery more accountable for Ws and Ls. The first bad trade we should remember to include Avery Johnson in those FIRE KING! chants.
Billy King will play it easy in the beginning…he will slowly try to accumalate his power. Its merely corporate politics. It happens in every organization, pro basketball included.
As a Net fan, all we should worry about is the chemistry and quaility of people in the Front Office. Who has how much power is irrelevant to me.
by Whoop Dee Damn Doo on Jul 15, 2010 1:06 PM EDT reply actions
yeah but my question is how many bad trades will we have to live through
before an overhaul, and how long will it take to rebuild again?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
MR DoLLaR BIllS vs IsaacNjn!
I agree with Mr DB…people are so negative on here and misinformed. They r probably lil 12 year old who aren’t knowledgable. Actually reading the back n forth posts are more exciting then this article how Avery is taking over.
1.Do we really know what Averys thinking or his motives?
2.Why should we care? We have no control but to enjoy the team and watch the progress. Most teams who r successful i.e. Magic,Cavs,Spurs,Celtics all were terrible for a few years to position proper drafting and trading
3.BE IN THE MOMENT
Ps DollarBills wins in unanimous texting decision vs Isaac
by MaTT FiNGaZ on Jul 15, 2010 1:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
we've already positioned our proper drafting and trading
our current front office got us all these young players, cap room, and the huge number of picks the next few years. We should be moving onto the next step, or only spending one more year sucking at the least, not going in an entirely new direction.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The worlds coming to an end!!!
Oh wait, I’m not Isaac.
All is well, things are looking up.
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
I disagree with like 90% of what issac says
but I have to partially agree with him here. This makes no sense, Avery hasn’t done anything to this point to prove he should be allowed this much power. And sure “it could work out” it could just as easily be a complete disaster and set us back 3-4 more years. It took us 3 years to get to the position we’re in with the young players we have and the assets and picks we have. It makes no sense to take all that and put it in the hands of a coach with such a small track record and try out a model that has no precedent. And it’s not being negative it’s just being reasonable, even if it only takes 1-2 years to realize it’s not worth it in that 1-2 years irreparable damage could be done, and exactly what kind of long-term effects would it have on a possible move to Brooklyn if we’re having to start over with another rebuilding process at that point, that would exactly help with the plan to “steal knicks fans”.
And it especially makes no sense when a front office who had brought us this far could have just been mostly retained and added, even if Thorn wanted to go they could have just promoted Marks, too instead of totally blown up and put into the hands of a guy with zero track record.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Thank you Gina
for this post and for agreeing with me 10 percent of the time. Let’s work on the other 90.
Gina and Isaac sittin' in a tree...
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 15, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but...
….your complaints are out of general concern for the team, which we all understand, no one likes unknowns and unchartered territory.
My friend Isaac here, would complain no matter what. Do you think that he’d be giving Rod Thorn props right now if he was staying on with the team? He’d be killing him just like he’s been killing Prokhorov and anyone else attached to the current regime for the last few months.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
one MORE year of LOTTERY...
First off Gina Nets aren’t very strong at starting SF and SG. You don’t think we could use an impact draftee there then trade assets ina year or so to acquire a Carmelo/Chris Paul type talent. Harrison Barnes SF level player upfront w Favors + Lopez is what well need to eventually compete.
Its clearly obvious there is no quick fix
by MaTT FiNGaZ on Jul 15, 2010 2:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I'd love to be in the top 3 again
but that doesn’t seem to be in the plans. instead it seems like we’re shooting for mediocrity. Mediocre record, mediocre draft pick.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
With the development
of our young players "mediocrity’ is going to be hard to prevent. If Devin Harris can stay healthy and be consistant he is a pretty good point guard. As everyone can see, Brook Lopez is already one of the top centers in the league and should improve even more. Courtney Lee’s game showed slow but steady improvement throughout last season. TWill is going to be a dynamic bench player. Favors and James both have showed alot of promise and both should contribute this upcoming season.
I don’t expect this team to tank again this year so a top five draft pick is, in my opinion, doubtful. I think it will be necessary to acquire the star player that they need to lead this team via trade or free agency.
the team...
…never had enough talent to be as bad as they were last year in the first place. The general consensus is while the Nets were going to be bad, they weren’t supposed to be 12-70 bad….. I fail to see how we could feasibly shoot for a top 3 pick unless we switch Harris, Lee, Williams Lopez, James, and Favors out of here in exchange for D Leaguers.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I fail to understand how we're shooting for mediocrity...
….would you have preferred that they left the team full of holes, unable to compete, and being even worse than last year? I’d understand your position if we had done what Joe Dumars did last year, crippling the Pistons financially with bad signings, but Rod(and Avery) have not done that with any of these additions, and it looks like we’ll still be under the cap when the season starts assuming we don’t go for Scola(which at this point in time, I think would be unwise).
I understand where you’re coming from by not wanting to be stuck in the middle of the pack, but other than totally tanking, which I think isn’t the best strategy because that kills team morale, won’t attract fans, and doesn’t guaruntee anything in terms of acquiring superstar talent, I don’t understand how you’re drawing the conclusion that the Nets are aiming for mediocrity? That’s an assumption. Just because they do not want to be god awful does not mean that they want to be mediocre.
You have to at least give these guys a chance. IMO, Avery is at least getting players on board that will fit in his system. From what I’m seeing, there is a plan in place to keep the team competitive while continuing to build, which we can’t say about the last 6 years of Nets basketball.
Tanking is never the answer. The only things you’re guarunteed to get from tanking is a high draft pick(that may not yield what you want, such as this year with John Wall going to Wash.) and negative vibes surrounding your franchise. The big names didn’t even want to come within 20 feet of this place. 12-70 had a lot to do with that, nevermind playing in the NJ.
You also can kill your young players’ development by tanking, or leave yourself exposed to players checking out early. Harris and Lopez would definitely be staring off into space by the 1st week of september if we went into this season with the kids and a bunch of d leaguers. Not exactly the best environment to develop talent.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
excuse me, "first week of december"
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
with you 100%. Thats why I wanted a power forward in free agency. I don’t really understand the salary cap, and I don’t want to. So it probably wasn’t the best move financially to pick up one of the power forwards in Free agency. But it would have helped the team win.
Stoudemire and Boozer
are not worth what they’re being paid.
I’d be fine with a simple stop gap, meaning, someone with a pulse. We don’t need to use up all of our cap space, we aren’t winning this year.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think we'll have any problems with that.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
because the team as constructed
isn’t going to be better than mediocre barring a miracle? By aiming for mediocrity I mean they’ve constructed a team that isn’t anywhere good enough to do more than .500, and that’s if absolutely everything breaks right, but won’t be bad enough to compete for a top pick, especially if they do something insane like trading T-will for a stop gap.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
they're not done yet, though
hence why they’re allegedly trying to save 10 million in space, and a bunch of players will be off of the books in 2013. This isn’t the finished product
and yes, we agree. Trading Williams for a stop gap is the dumbest idea i’ve heard on here in a minute. e
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
By the time all those players are off the books
all our young players will tie up whatever cap room gained with new extensions, most of them will at worst double their current salaries and Lopez will probably triple his.
And with only ten million in cap room we’re not going to be able to take back bad salaries so we can make moves for big time players without giving up major assets. Just for example the original idea of trading for CP3 was that if you take back Okafur’s albatross contract and provide them salary cap relief they won’t demand Favors+T-will+Lee plus all our first rounders. Now we don’t have enough cap room to absorb a max player plus provide whatever team we’re dealing with extra cap relief. Which makes it about ten times harder to make a trade.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Interesting analysis
So basically what you are saying is that the Nets should not have signed the recent free agents. Rather they should have waited for a trade for a big time player. I would agree with that because I am not really crazy about any of the Nets’ signings.
eh I'm really not sure
I’m not saying we shouldn’t have done them. Just that it’s not really conducive with the idea that we’re still planning on trading for a star. Unless we think T-will + picks will bring back a star without having to take on an unwanted contract…which seems kind of unlikely? More than there doesn’t really seem to be any kind of plan in terms of the future, other than hope this team either gradually improves, or sucks to the point we get a top pick anyway.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
err I should say plan to acquire a star for the future
there does seem to be a plan
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I think
the only trade that would yield a star player in return would be one that included Brook Lopez, but when I suggested that everyone thought I was crazy.
I think we could land one without including Brook
the team would probably have to be either desperate to move him due to financial considerations or we’d have to give up a lot of assets.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
If Lebron
really was only concerned with winning championships he would have worked it to somehow go to Orlando. The combination of him and Howard would have won a bunch of championships. It seems like a superstar player with a dominant big man is the ultimate combination.
In your opinion Gina,
how do you think the Nets would perform with their current roster and a Lebron James or a Kobe Bryant or a Kevin Durant?
Or...
a question that I have been asking myself. Can a team win it all if they have like two allstar players and a bunch of real good players. But no superstar player.
? those guys would be superstar players
and so far there’s no example of teams ever doing it with no superstar and 2 all-stars.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Thomas was a superstar player.
He is in the Hall of Fame, as is Dumars. Thomas was as good a small guard that has ever played in this league.
The single year of the Billups title is the lone example of a non Hall of Famer on a title team, in the history of the league, provided that Billups doesn’t make the HoF.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
and I think you could argue Rasheed Wallace had HOF talent
it just came with a Sean Williams attitude/brain.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Yes. I agree. Rasheed had HoF talent, and on that team he played perhaps the most to his potential. In fact the other Wallace was pretty incredible in his way. They had several on-the-cusp players. In fact their entire line up was upper level to the league.
Billups
Hamilton
Prince
Wallace
Wallace
It was a team of studs.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
wow this looks like a recipe
for failure.
Billy King? Avery in charge?
the nets are not players in the melo and paul trade and even if either players are moved what leads you to believe they will not bolt to NY.
the nets are rebuilding I get it but from what I seen and heard seems like a lot is happening behind close doors
by killa kadafi191 on Jul 15, 2010 2:36 PM EDT reply actions
Avery can't wait for the training camp
It’s good that we’re starting early, due to the overseas games.
They won’t make another move until he sees how EVERYONE plays in the camp. Based from the conference call, It’s obvious that he’s holding on to something.
I can see Clee or TWill will be trade baits, together with the Hump. They might be targetting a 4.
"Beat the Heat!"
the Nets has King n James
Avery likes TWill at the 2
who do you predict as the starter, CLee or TWill?
Lee
better shooter.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Grade the Nets Offseason
Signings of Outlaw,Morrow,Ross,Petro,Farmer
Drafting of Favors,James
New GM in Billy King
New Coach in Avery Johnson
B-
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
Quinton Ross was traded for...
…not signed. He had no choice.
So it should read like this:
Trading Yi for anyone: A++++
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Jul 15, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Draft 2011..
Even if Nets end up w #10 pick with the assets we have its not far fetched to think we can move up. The Thunder did it this year and got Cole Aldrich. One thing fasure none of us can predict the final outcome of record. Health of key players combined with development of young players are a huge factor.
CASE in POINT…Wizards last year on paper looked like top 5. Three guns and two trades later then end up w John Wall. Let’s see what happens #wordaapp
by MaTT FiNGaZ on Jul 15, 2010 4:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
This is exactly my point
Just because we aren’t aiming to be god awful doesn’t mean that we won’t be able to make moves or somehow acquire a higher pick. And you’re not promised to see the sun come out tomorrow with a top 3 pick. It’s a crap shoot. I’d be fine with missing the playoffs and getting the #10 pick.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
You're not promised
but it’s a much bigger chance. If you have the choice between a 70% chance at 1 million dollars and a 30% chance which would you take?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
70 obviously
but again, there’s no telling what we’ll be able to do come next off season. We have assets and will probably have a pick high enough to package in a deal to move up to get a targeted player.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
how many times has that actually happened?
that teams picking in the top 3-5 trade down for packaged deals? Every year teams/pundits claim it’s someones plan. And every year it doesn’t happen, because if a player that most people consider a franchise player is available why is anyone going to trade him away for a lower pick? The Wiz weren’t going to do it for the #3 pick and anything we would have offered, what makes you think it’s likely anyone will do it next year?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
T WILL or C LEE..
If T Will had a more consistent jumper it would be no question because hed be the creator we need to get others involved. C Lee like Mr DB said has a steadier stroke from the outside and solid defender. Only issue I’m concerned with is everyone in starting lineup is slash or shoot first..WHO’S GONNA PASS??
by MaTT FiNGaZ on Jul 15, 2010 5:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Dang...
…good point.
Devin will have to pass first instead of chucking.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 15, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
that TWill will be most effective when the Nets go small. He will be on the floor with good shooters, and he is a good rebounder for a guard, so the Nets won’t suffer so much on the boards in a small alignment. Lopez,Outlaw,Lee,Morrow,TWill.
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