NetsDaily Off-Season Report #13
Well, that sucked. The Nets' dream was dashed and then dashed again. First Dywane, Chris and then LeBron bypassed them, followed by a smash-mouth from Carlos Boozer and then finally, the coup de grace, from Tyrus Thomas, of all people. Tyrus Thomas? Oh well. Times have changed. The Nets are Oklahoma City East now, taking those bright young pieces and surrounding them with, well, other bright young pieces. We look at all aspects of it.
Every Sunday, we’ll be updating the Nets’ off-season with bits and pieces of information, gossip, etc. to help take the edge off missing the playoffs, relying on the Nets’ beat reporters and others who have slipped interesting stuff into larger stories and blogs...not to mention our own reporting.
First Up - Anthony Morrow
News that the Nets won't sign Anthony Morrow to an offer sheet til Monday may give a hint of what the Nets are up to. Once an offer sheet is signed, the team holding a restricted free agent's rights has seven days to match any offer. But once the sheet is signed, all three parties—the Nets, Warriors and Morrow in this case—would have to agree to pull the offer sheet and restructure the deal.
That's what happened in the Kenyon Martin case six years ago. Then-Denver GM Kiki Vandeweghe told the Nets they were going to sign KMart to an offer sheet...but hadn't. Instead, they worked out a deal that got KMart more money and the Nets three draft choices.
We're not saying that the Nets will restructure Morrow's offer--$12 million over three--but the two sides could make the deal a sign-and-trade and avoid the seven day waiting period. The Nets hold two of the Warriors picks in the next two drafts: the unprotected second round pick in 2011 and the first round (protected, 1-7) pick in 2012. The Nets got both in the restructured Marcus Williams trade. The Nets originally received a heavily protected first round pick in 2011 for Williams, but the Warriors asked that it be moved back to 2012. Thorn agreed but exacted a price: the second round pick in 2011 and lighter protections. Beyond the protections, that first round pick hangs around if the Warriors are bad enough to warrant a high pick in 2012. It rolls over to 2013, protected 1-7 again, then if the Warriors retain the pick in that draft, it becomes protected 1-6 in 2014. And then, if the pick still hasn’t been exercised in 2013 because of the protections, it finally becomes two second round picks, in 2014 and 2016.
There are lots of possibilities out there. The Warriors could ask the Nets to restructure the deal so the protections are heavier, say lottery protected, in 2012, or ask for the second round pick back, or ask that if the first round pick isn’t exercised in 2012, it goes away. We suspect that’s what it will get down to, a trade rather than a signing. That way, Morrow can attend Tuesday's free agent press conference unencumbered.
UPDATE: The Warriors just announced they have signed the Heat's Dorell Wright to a three year, $11 million deal. It's now highly unlikely Golden State will want to match. They're now over in luxury tax territory.
A Blueprint For a Tear-Down?
When the free agent process began, we had very little hope that ANY of the big three free agents would sign in New Jersey. The Nets thought they did and so did what they could to free up space. Fine. The problem is that in doing so, they took some risks. They traded two players, aged 22 and 23, Yi Jianlian and Chris Douglas-Roberts, for essentially nothing: Quinton Ross and the Bulls' second round pick in 2012...which based on this week's events is likely to be no higher than #55. How smart was it to send away two players, who averaged more than 20 points and 10 rebounds between them? Both may have had issues, but the return was paltry. We understand you have to cast fears aside when shooting for the stars, but at the end of the day, they lost out, and in reality, they should have known they would. Whether it was Mikhail Prokhorov's naivete, the front office's self-delusion or LeBron's hypnotic powers, they went ahead. For us, the bottom line is that a 12-70 team with two arenas in its future, no GM, a new coach and an untested owner never really had much of a shot.
As for the low-balling of Carlos Boozer, we don't have enough information to suggest whose idea it was to offer him $10 million less than he wanted. It's our position that the Nets HAVE to overpay. They have never signed a top flight NBA player in the open free agency market. Yeah, they signed Alonzo Mourning but he was very ill at the time and not long afterwards needed a kidney transplant. Jamaal Magloire had been an All-Star but by the time the Nets signed him, he was a shadow of his former (overrated) self. As noted above, the Nets are in a better situation, much better, than they were last year at this time, but nowhere near the playoffs...at least yet.
All that said--and we had to get it off our chests--we like the signings of Travis Outlaw, Anthony Morrow, Johan Petro and (possibly) Jordan Farmar. The Nets' master plan should be quite obvious: go athletic, very athletic, and add shooters, make low and moderate risk/ high reward moves. It's also a measure of how good Avery Johnson feels about Devin Harris. He wants his team led by Harris and Brook Lopez. Starting with the hyperathletic draft picks, Derrick Favors and Damion James, and continuing with the pickups of Outlaw, Morrow and Petro, the Nets seem to have made a conscious choice to feature Harris and Brook Lopez. Why do we say that? By setting up a horse-race style offense with the athletes they've added and a spread-the-floor half court plan with solid deep shooters. The Nets should be able to free Harris up to do what he did two years ago when he had four players with deep shooting percentages over 38%. (Of course, he also had Vince Carter, who the Nets have not replaced.) Also, the more you open up the lane, the fewer injuries Harris is likely to sustain barreling towards the basket. There should be less traffic down there to play bumper cars with his body. The Nets' horrid shooting (and limited playbook) last season had opponents clogging the lane and daring them to shoot from the outside. Having Outlaw, Morrow and maybe Farmar out on the perimeter is also going to open things up for Lopez as well. Won't hurt Favors development either. It's all about complementary pieces.
What's next? Probably more of the same. We've even been told the Nets don't want to acquire anyone over the age of 30. The franchise--and its owner--now appear to be all in on the rebuilding. They tried and failed at making the big splash and are now dealing with installing new plumbing.
"Mr. Prokhorov said we were going to try and get the top guys and if that didn't work, we were going to try to add other pieces but not destroy our cap space that we have for other years," Thorn told Al Iannazzone. "That's a prudent way to do it. We'll keep looking for pieces, but we're going to maintain our cap integrity as we do it."
Power Play?
Speaking of player personnel issues, we're hearing--and seeing indications--that the new coach would like a lot more power in the personnel area. He's been the guy out front on player personnel issues, as Thorn fades into the sunset. He wanted Tyrus Thomas. He wanted Travis Outlaw...and recruited him. He's said he'd like an outsider to take the president's job, which would also help him gather power. The new guy would be the new guy and would have to rely a lot on Avery...not that there's anything wrong with that.
After all, the Nets organization is asking a lot of Johnson. With a roster that will no doubt be the youngest in the NBA (quite possibly ever), the Nets will need a coach who can teach, push, prod, mold, etc. It will be a big test for him and the rest of the staff, led by Sam Mitchell. And remember, Prokhorov has made it clear the goal of making the playoffs this season and a championship between one and five years remains "intact". So the pressure is still on at the top.
Capopalooza
Enough about words...Let's talk numbers! Assume that Morrow's contract is three years at $4 million each, Petro's about $3 million. The Nets will have between $18 and $19 million in cap space after the three signings. (We assume they still want to sign Farmar or his equivalent, but we don’t how much he's being offered or whether he will take it.)
It also means the team currently has a payroll of around $40 million for 13 players, two of whom (Brian Zoubek and Ben Uzoh) are non-guaranteed and a third (Quinton Ross) is so small--$1.14 million--that it could easily be dumped if roster issues arise. The league requires that each team have a MINIMUM payroll, which this year is set at $43.5 million. That means the Nets MUST spend another $4 million on salaries. (They will automatically add to their payroll when they sign Favors and James. First round picks traditionally get a 20% bonus above the rookie salary scale. But that would add a little less than $1 million.)
Because they are under the cap--more than any other team, they can take on big salaries in trades. We think the team will make one more signing, then try a trade for a power forward.
Dave D'Alessandro suggests the Nets take a flier on Troy Murphy, a New Jersey guy, for a year. He's an expiring contract at a little less than $12 million. Nice shooter, nice rebounder, but not someone who's going to run the court.
We suggest that with all that cap space, they could take a look at Andrei Kirilenko, a Moscow guy, for a year. It's not just because he's the only Russian in the NBA. In the kind of system the Nets are planning, he might be a more ideal fit than Murphy. Problem is he makes a lot more: $17.8 million.
A trade of AK-47 for Courtney Lee (the backcourt is getting crowded) and/or a pick or two would lessen the possibility of the Jazz paying the luxury tax, give them a huge trade exception and a pick or two. The Jazz are almost certainly going to lose Kirilenko at the end of this season so why not think about it. The Nets would still be about $4 million under the cap if they did that, but add Farmar and you're nearly there. Not what they want.
Emeka Okafor is another name being bandied about? He's historically a double-double guy, but he's a big risk. He missed 80 games in his first three seasons and although he's played in every game the last three, it's something GMs look at. He's owed nearly $52 million over the next four years--$11.5 million this season. More worrisome, he's seen all this key numbers--points, rebounds and blocks--decline in each of the last four years, going from 14.4, 11.3 and 2.6 in 2007 to 10.3, 9.0 and 1.6 in 2010. Yes, he's still only 27 but we can't see the Nets squandering so much of their cap space on someone who may already be in decline.
There's always Viktor Khryapa, the All-Euroleague PF who was the continent's top defender last season, leading the league in steals and defensive rebounds. Known in Russia as "Kirilenko-Lite", he's also an excellent passer and surprisingly athletic. He was a Nets draft choice in 2004, is looking in the NBA, is still only 27 and could be had a lot cheaper than the others.
Bottom line on cap management is this. While Chad Ford thinks the Nets want to have $10 million in cap space going into the season, word is that they want much more: something like $14 to $15 million. It makes sense in the long run and here's why. With the collective bargaining agreement looming in the distance, teams with big payrolls may want to dump them before the trade deadline. With a lot of cap space, the Nets are going to be sitting pretty: they can take on the big contracts and offer up measly things like draft picks, swaps of draft picks, cash etc. Desperate men do desperate things, you know.
Spending Money Yet?
Is Prokhorov happy with all this? Think of it this way: He's Russian. They LOVE Five-Year Plans.
But what about the promise of Prokhorov profligacy? Was it a myth? Certainly, he is spending more than Bruce Ratner ever would. Here are some examples, not all of them visible:
--He let Thorn add $3 million to the Yi deal to facilitate it. We don't remember the last time that happened, if ever, with the Nets.
--The team has hired a full complement of coaches: Johnson plus at least five assistants, at least one of whom, Mitchell, is a former head coach. Another may be as well. Nets have interviewed both Larry Krystowiak (Bucks) and Eric Musselman (Kings and Warriors) for the remaining opening.
--The Nets gave both Zoubek and Uzoh limited salary protection in their contracts. Such partial guarantees are by no means guarantees for future employment, but it got the two of them to sign with the Nets and not someone else. The Nets haven't done that since 2007 when they gave Robert Hite $25,000.
--The Nets are building a state-of-the-art locker room at the Prudential Center, which Prokhrov is getting regular updates on. And remember, the only reason the Nets are in Newark is that he was willing to eat the cost of the lease buyout.
--Hey, all those Blueprint for Greatness signs, billboards, ads, etc. don't come cheap.
Book Me at The "Arena"
Brooklyn has a new hotel, the Best Western Arena, six blocks east of the Barclays Center site. It's the first major business to take advantage of the Nets move. Originally to be named Best Western Downtown Brooklyn, it was renamed Best Western Arena because of its proximity to the Barclays Center. "We are only six blocks from the new arena and the only hotel at the first stop along the Long Island Rail Road, making it a convenient stay whether they’re in the area for work or play", said the owner in a press release. Meanwhile work continues apace on Barclays Center as the concrete footings continue to be filled in, buildings in the footprint continue to be torn down. The subway tunnels around the arena are also being improved. There's been no indication things aren't moving along.
Final Note
One thing that has driven us (at least one of us) nuts this week is the claim that the Nets are overpaying players like Outlaw, Morrow and Petro. Put aside the fact that overpaying is the only way to get restricted free agents like Morrow. What's the point? Are people worried that giving Outlaw $35 million over five (essentially the MLE) or Petro $10 million over three is going to break Prokhorov or force him to raise the price of gold? You want overpaying? Boozer is going make $20 million when he reaches the age of 34. Amare Stoudemire is going to be paid more than $25 million at age 33, Joe Johnson the same figure at age 34. Now maybe Johnson becomes Ray Allen by then, but the Knicks are unlikely to get insurance for Amare's knees, for God's sake. That's overpaying, in spite of his great skills.
It's all risk management. Giving a player what is essentially the average NBA salary (Outlaw) over five years or half the league average (Petro) over three is hardly any risk at all, particularly since these players are 25 and 24 and have yet to reach their peaks. At least in the case of Outlaw, the team reduced its risk even further by having him take $7 million a year each year, rather than the traditional graduated scale. How so? The Nets will be paying him more than what he would get under the graduated scale this year, at a time when there's NO chance it will affect the salary cap. Conversely, they will be paying less when it might, five years down the road. If they had given him $35 million on a graduated scale, he would be making $8 million in year five instead of $7 million.
Moreover, at some point, you have to trust your basketball people.
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389 comments
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Comments
as of right now 1st thing is to recognize what kind of roster we have n what they want to have and plan on doing with it. Proky wants the playoffs this year we all know that.
Proky wanted the first pick in the draft...
… and Lebron to sign.
Proky doesn’t always get what he wants.
no
prokhy said IF EVERYTHING GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN play-offs this year.
i think it’s safe to say not many things have gone according to plan.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
yes
“To Nets fans past, present and future, the goal of making the playoffs this season remains intact and we reiterate our commitment to winning a championship within 5 years.” –Proky
yeah that was before we were rebuffed by Thomas
lost Lee, and had no chance of landing scola.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The price of low basketball IQ players is
losses in close games that the good teams win. Devin Harris, although a very intelligent guy off the court, has questionable decision-making tendencies down the stretch too. Not just the new guys.
All that said the Eastern conference is horrible and we will be in the race for a playoff spot until April at least.
at least we're not cleveland
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Though Danny Gilberts tirade with in strong Russian accent
would be about 10x more awesome
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I always glad to think:
At least we are not Cleveland!
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
we are 3 years ahead of Cleveland in the rebuilding process
is that much consolation? no, because we are still 3yrs behind Portland or OK and we don’t got Durant.
Double Rainbow...
Double Rainbow all the wayyy acrosss the sky…
Wrong on minimum team salary...
… Nets won’t incur the penalty until the end of the season. From the CBA Article VII, Section 2 (b) (2)
In the event that, by the conclusion of a Salary Cap Year, a Team has
failed to make aggregate Salary payments and/or incur aggregate Salary obligations equal to or
greater than the applicable Minimum Team Salary for that Salary Cap Year, the NBA shall cause
such Team to make payments equal to the shortfall…
If I’m interpreting that correctly, the Nets have until the trade deadline to acquire contracts to meet the team minimum salary, rather than by October as you imply above in Capopalooza.
in that case
why in the world are we trying to spend it all now??
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
or a large portion of it
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I would be happy at the min cap floor this year
They have to get there, but they don’t need to get 2 the cap max.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I'm thinking Morrow...
… could be a great backcourt partner for TWill.
Someone in the organization likes Petro better than Boone.
I’m willing to wait and see on Outlaw. That’s a cheap deal if he becomes a latter day Tayshaun Prince for the next 5 years.
Well I will hope for the best
But if you have a press conference for him, he better be a major contributer or people won’t be happy
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Why would he be better than C.Lee?
out of curiosity?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
PS Great summary...
… definitely a must read.
by fly75 on Jul 10, 2010 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
PPS. Jazz aren't any where near the luxury tax...
…. once Boozer signs with the Bulls.
Was only a problem in he stayed in Utah.
lol there's a mets site on sbn
amazin avenue they have game threads.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Good summary Netincome..
I think Khryapa would be the smart choice at the four..
He is undersized and isn’t going to score a ton, but he’ s a solid all around player, who will compete every night.
3/4 years at 5-6 mil per year would make sense..
When Favors finally gets in the starting lineup, Khryapa would make an ideal backup..
how many players are under contract
assuming all goes according to plan with Morrow and Petro? Don’t we have a full roster?
I'd rather have Ridnour than Farmer...
Anything happening with Luke ??
Are they that close with Farmar?
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 10, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Are they willing...
…to come off the bench on a team that had 12 wins last season? I believe both those guys want (believe they can get) starting jobs. That might be the holdup?
by Whoop Dee Damn Doo on Jul 10, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you have a press conference
for a guy who’s team has 7 days to match? I think they’d have to do that after the waiting period passes.
If we couldn't get
Wade or James (the only real superstars of free-agency), then I’m totally fine with the current game-plan. I think I’m more excited about the Nets now than I have been in a couple of years. Maybe because LFrank is finally gone; but I’m looking forward to the upcoming season.
Also, I don’t think we need another PF right now. Let’s see what Favors can do and share time with Humphries.
Yeah but I don’t think its wise to overwhelm Favors by making him think he has got to carry most of the load in his first season at that position. And like its been said they have to spend to get to the cap floor, so a point guard and pf would be where the would go IMO.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Dont forget about what it does to Brook
With Hump and Favors, Brook will be on lockdown, double team style. The weakness of PF on this team will start to break Brook mentally this year. At least last year, there was a plan to add a stud PF, namely Stoudamire, even before the year ended.
Putting him with a non score PF who cannot help spread the floor for Brook or give Brook the ability to play outside a bit more would be punishment that Brook doesnt deserve.
won't shooters make a pretty big difference in that?
how many teams actually have two big men you have to guard?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Or Favors can hammer the offensive glass
you double-team off a big and they will have to deal with him on the boards. No rotating guard is going to be able to stop him.
Agreed.
It is outside shooters who create spacing for big men, not other big men.
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 10, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt it will help
But they need low post help both O and D for Brook this year. He got swallowed inside last year and it’s easy to double down on him from the key because he is not lightening fast.
We’d need a corner shooter and a kick out shooter for that. We’ll see how effective they are.
I’m not sure points are need out of the PF position so much as strong D and rebounds. Points would be great, but if not you can’t have a stiff there.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone said this team reminds them
of an Atlana a few years ago???
Since the face been revealed the game got real
definite similarities
but I’m hoping it turns out more like OKC.
no durant =/
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
we need more small forwards
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Is Scola "30" or "over 30", NI?
Was that caveat in your post supposedly to rule out Scola or is he still under consideration? I love that guy.
That's what I was wondering ??????
Anything going on with Scola ??
If Houston swears it will match
you tied up your money for seven days and then you dont get him.
I dont think it would be very smart for the Nets to offer him big bucks, which would mean five years…He’ll be 35. Not a lot of bigs still effective at 35.
Morey's bluffing
trying to keep Scola’s price down by scaring off potential bidders. Pull the trigger Rod.
Match this: $33M for 3 yrs. with a team option for the 4th, or $36M for 4. I don’t know it that gets it done but it at least forces Morey’s hand, and Scola is worth a high price for 3 or 4 years.
The Bright Side.
Try to look on the bright side, fellas (and Gina). The only team in this free agency that seriously got better was Miami; I think one could argue that very few other teams actually got that much better with the moves they made. The Knicks got an excellent PF in Stat, but they paid $100 million for someone with bad knees who needs other all-stars surrounding him to dish him the ball. I still think the Nets are better than the Knicks in terms of talent. The Bulls signed Boozer, who is a good but overated player who couldn’t take Utah over the edge. I think one could easily argue that he was overpaid as well. Lets face it: the situation with Miami was a pipedream that only one team in this league could have pulled off. Our new direction should in fact be heading towards a direction similar to the Thunders of the West: building a competitive team through youth and lottery picks. That’s the dirtier, alternative method to building a good team, but I believe we are halfway there. I like the Outlaw signing and Anthony Marrow signing; both add a dimension to this team that wasn’t present last year. These seem like little moves to bring us above the newly placed cap minimum, but most importantly these are young players who have a ton of potential and can be solid role players. I believe we will suffer through one last year of the youth growth movement and perhaps a lottery pick before this team can contend with other dominate forces in the East.
"We aim above the mark to hit the mark." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Chicago and NY improved a lot in short run
Chicago might end up being very strong this year. Should be interesting to watch.
Warriors have signed Dorell Wright
making it virtually impossible and unnecessary for them to match on Morrow.
Their actions confound me.
Almost Minnesota-like in their haste to shuffle the deck. Seems like they could have easily pried some assets out of the Nets, but now appears that Morrow is ours without a problem.
LOVELY!
Dorrel's not as good a shooter
but he’s more versatile and a better defender.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
In Outlaw the Nets already have a 38% shooter from 3, now they also have a 45% shooter. Spreading the floor.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Morrow was a great signing!!
So happy with the teams choices
"We’re the new Nets. We’re leaving the old behind and we’re in with the new. Hopefully LeBron is going to be a part of that."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
not in my opinion, he can spot stater but a come oft the bench long range guy for now but he is young, maybe down the road.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Starter. Trend of signings
seems to be taller players. Devin, Morrow, Outlaw, Maybe Scola and Brook.
by Doesthishurt on Jul 10, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
he's not taller than Lee
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The reason Morrow is waiting till monday to sign
he has to pass a physical first
that’s what i read.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Net Income i agree with Lee for ak47!! Akwould be a great fit next to brook and we still have hump if we need a banger. Ak when healthy is a beast with blocks and rebounds.
agreed
i’m not sure if the Jazz will give him away as having lost Boozer they may need him. But if they match Matthews offer from Portland and are struggling with luxury tax then a huge trade exception and a second round pick should be enough
by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 11, 2010 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Good Glass Half Full Portrait
I definitely agree with your “overpaying?” paragraph. We overpaid by a lot less than some others — and that will be good 4 years from now when LBJ has his ETO. Until then, I agree with Dave D’s phrase “very young and ordinary”. We are not quite Oklahoma City East because KD outscores Brook by 10 points a game. That is the difference between ordinary and extraordinary. A better comparison is Charlotte – a competitive but mediocre C+ kind of team like the Bucks used to be. I would just as soon be bad and go back into the lottery next year. Maybe we wlll anyway.
I think you are wrong about Harris. I think he is a middle of the pack PG who does not make those around him better. If you give him enough shots he will score 20 points but he will have a terrible A/T ratio as he did last year and he will probably get hurt somewhere. They have not made a conscious decision to build around him. They have no choice because everything else has fallen through. No choice = no decision.
There is nothing bad on a stand alone basis about the signings they have just made but nothing remarkable either. This is a collection of supporting parts that needs a superstar or a super point guard to pull it together. Brook does not have that personalty and DH does not have the talent.
As I look back to the JKidd trade, which was fored on them, everything since them except their lottery picks has been a disaster. This offseason has been so bad it fills me with confidence that Derrick Favors is going to be a stud because it will even out the other failures. It looks like even Rod Thorn is subject to the law of averages.
Thorn's legacy revolves around Favors
The future of the franchise does to an extent. Unless they are able to make an upside trade.
I would say Brook and Favors.
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 10, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
but I think we have a pretty good idea what Brook is, especially after this year.
I like Morrow
but I really don’t get why we’d rather start him than Lee. He’s a sharp shooter, but he’s kind of a liability on the other end.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Good things are happening here
Tough, defensive minded coach who will push the right buttons and expect a lot from our young guys.
at 27 Devin has had A LOT of NBA experience and in Lopez’s 3rd year he should take big leaps forward.
We have a lot of flexibility, a lot of draft picks and a lot of young guys…it takes the RIGHT type of veterans to turn a team around, stay the path, things are looking up
NI, great read as always
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
No I get the competition
I don’t get the idea that it makes Lee expendable
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
well expendable for a stop gap
if it means we’re considering moving him in a bigger deal then that’s different
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
See this Bleacher Report from Morrow's rookie year
Its called Upside.
As an undrafted rookie, Morrow has surprised all us Warriors fans (and the whole NBA, for that matter) with his amazingly quick shot and smooth release. Of course, no one except Anthony Morrow knew who he was during training camp and even at the start of the season. All we knew was that he had a good shot.
But what made him different than a Marco Belinelli, whom the Warriors drafted just a year before with the No. 18 pick? Well, unlike Marco, Morrow has already given us a sign of hope. Some Warriors fans are even calling him “the next Ray Allen.”
OK, even I admit that’s a bit of a stretch. I mean, he is still in his rookie season, doesn’t get consistent minutes, and still is streaky at times. But every time Morrow has the ball in his hands, every single Warriors fan says, “Please shoot it!”
Read Here
Or this Anthony Morrow Scores 37 in His First NBA Start
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
No to CLee + picks for AK47
CLee is one of the most experienced youngs that we have,has a nice D and still has a lot to improve
by pradas on Jul 10, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Would he be ok with Avery anyway??
Don’t know if he would clash with our strong willed coach.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I don't know why everyone is willing to give up on Lee
but they hold onto TWill. I would like to keep both, but Lee seems like a better fit.
I wouldn't say untouchable
but I don’t think he will ever get back equal value in a trade. He is a glue guy, Twill on the other hand is someone you can market and trade at the right time.
I said it before trade him after the dunk contest this year, his value will never be so high.
Yes, great idea.
Give him tons of minutes upto the All-star game. Let him run loose and average close to a triple double from the bench. And by close to a triple double i mean 12/5/5 with 3.5 turnovers and 39% shooting. Then throw him into the dunk contest. I think that would be enough glitz for his value to sky rocket and then he can ship him off to Minny for Rubio.
exactly
and the best part is that I don’t think he will help us win games either.
this is actually an awesome plan
i dig it
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
by Gina on Jul 10, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whaaaaaaaaat?
I find excuses like “Lee won’t get equal value” or “TWill’s value will never be higher” ridiculous. No offense, but that makes zero sense. Bottom line is Wiliams is one of the players we’re building around. Lee is one of the complementary pieces to those guys we are building around (Devin, TWill, Brook, Derrick). Talking about trading TWill is pure nonsense and it will never happen.
So is T-will
T-wills ceiling is a guy like AI-2, that’s not a player you build around. He’s a complementary piece to a better player.
And if his attitude is still as bad as it seems then he’s not even worth keeping around as a complementary player if some other team overvalues him.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
better fit
Lee is not half the player TWill is and will never be. I’m not saying trade Lee, not at all, I want us to keep him, but TWill is a building block (which Lee is not) and a far superior player.
Really Nice Writing Net Income
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
feeling better and better
… as long as there is an intelligent plan in place that attempts to reward us fans for our suffering and patience.
For several days there didn’t seem to be — our FO seems to have been a bit naive in retrospect but the three Am-egos seemed to have planned Miami all along. Still, based on NI’s write-up — young, athletic, coachable, with upside + great coaching + cap room to take advantage of opportunities — I’m feeling better.
Serious upside: Brook ©, Favors (PF), TWill (SF?), DJames (SF?), Morrow (SG) and maybe even Outlaw too. I like Khryapa too based on the above. Now, let’s add Farmar and a shrewd GM (Pritchard please) … and show progress this year.
Good write-up
I hope NI is right about the Nets trying to stay $15 million under the cap. At this point, I’d rather have that money for trades than waste it on someone like Haslem or Scola… Unless we can get one of those PF’s on expiring contracts.
Morrow will start.
He is more exploisve and reliable shooter. Lee had a great opportunity last year and showed that he is player that is a role palyer on a great team and a bench palayer on a good team. Side note I think our next two signings are Hilton Armstrong and Joey Dorsey.
Lee can get minutes at both the SG and the SF, depending on match ups.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
For those that are interested...
Player 2010/11
Harris, Devin $8,981,000.00
Outlaw, Travis $7,000,000.00
Morrow, Anthony $4,000,000.00
Favors, Derrick $3,444,400.00
Humphries, Kris $3,200,000.00
Petro, Johan $3,100,000.00
Lopez, Brook $2,413,320.00
Williams, Terrence $2,214,480.00
Lee, Courtney $1,352,640.00
Ross, Quinton $1,146,337.00
James, Damien $963,600.00
Dooling, Keyon $500,000.00
Uzoh, Ben $450,000.00
Zoubek, Brian $450,000.00
Farmar, Jordan
Totals $39,215,777.00
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 10, 2010 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Future salaries...
2011/12 – $36,028,815
2012/13 – $38,725,699
2013/14 – $18,240,722
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 10, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Nets have had weaknesses at both forward positions since Richard Jefferson was traded to milwaukee. Going into the off season I felt like the Nets were solid at point with Harris, at the 2 guard with Lee, and at center with Lopez.
With that in mind I was hoping that the Nets would try to sign one of the top power forwards in the game(Stoudemire,Bosh,Boozer, or Lee). And also fill the need for a small forward, although there seemed to be a dearth of small forwards available either in the draft or free agency.
However if building the team in such a way creates a fear of ’mediocrity" then I think it will very difficult to build a winning team at all with the current nucleus of players.
The current
nucleus has a great upside without a cieling of mediocrity and we have flexability. The FA’s you mention would lead us to a level above mediocrity with a limited upside and little flexability. Specifically Favors could be better than all those PF you mentioned and if not we will have high draft choices and cap space for a trade.
AVERY VS TWILL
I just heard from an NBA insider that Twill was 30min late to the bus on Fri. Avery let him have it bad!!! Twill better shape up!
I guess that explains this...
If you work for the nets stop monitoring my twitter it won’t get you kno where in this life time, god bless #worddown 4:38 PM Jul 9th via Twitterrific
* Reply
* Retweet
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 10, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
how are you 30 minutes late for the bus, what was he doing??? And how is someone who was good for 6 weeks that arrogant.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
by Gina on Jul 10, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's "that arrogant" because he's been ready all comments here
The way we hype this guy up is absurd.
I’ve never liked TWill. He gives off negative energy. We’ve been over this multiple times, but he would be a disaster as a backup PG and he’s just not a winning player. I’d trade him NOW after that “strong” showing at Summer League where he looked for his own numbers.
He is one of two things
I always relate to my own coaching but there are the kids you love who always test you with a smile, who are just fun loving kids.
and there are the kids who just won’t get it.
Either way he needs to grow up and we need to tout him as the greatest thing ever.
Bringing in competition is good. If he sits on the bench that is bad for his trade value.
Jesus Christ
And here we go again. So CDR is gone and we need to make another kid the epithome of arrogance and our next evil presence in the locker room. You people are unbelievable.
Williams not a winning player? How do you explain that we started winning games late in the season when he broke out? Coincidence?
yeah, there's really no point to even respond to some of the nonsense.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Gee. I guess he is the next Jason Kidd in more ways than one.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
*UGH*
I hope TWill doesn’t become Nate.
by Whoop Dee Damn Doo on Jul 10, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe.....
He really just overslept or his alarm was set wrong…“Frank Happens”……Make him apologize to the team…..
and the tweet?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
someone hacked his account.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
I love when every pro athletes say something dumb, and the twitter hacker excuse. I am not saying t-will is going to use it but I have heard that more then once.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I think Nate hacked it, or just grabbed his iPhone. Seriously.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
IF he has high value then yeah I guess move him, I am not saing this is the end of the world but, Avery don’t play games, T Will might benifit from an easier going coach.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I'm not trying to piss him off. I think thats a really good deal for us.
I’ll make a post about it as to why when the Morrow deal becomes official. I like what he brings but considering James/Outlaw/Morrow are all new signings he might become the odd man out. Especially if he continues the foolish i’m a PG stuff. And if he isn’t a PG then what is he, a chucker that can’t shoot? The other guys can play specific roles, Twitt not so much. And again, i DO like him in the 6th man do everything role, but he’s gonna eat up too much minutes that the other guys need.
the odd man out?
He’s better than James, Outlaw, Morrow and of course, Lee. Williams is a building block. Neither of those guys are building blocks, but complementary pieces to our building blocks, like TWill.
And again, there’s more than enough PT for everybody. TWill can play the 1,2 or 3, and both Damion and Outlaw can plat the 4. Anyways, TWill is the best out of that group and the guy who will get the most PT of them, so no problem.
But who cares, we all know you obviously hate the kid, always have hated him from the beginning, keep calling him Twitt, but you always defended your boy Courtney “untouchable” Lee even when he was stinking up the place during half the season, so whatever.
And again, i DO like him in the 6th man do everything role, but he’s gonna eat up too much minutes that the other guys need.
Who are you trying to kid, folk? We know you have always hated him. Anyone who follows the main forum knows it. You still call the guy “twitt”. Come on. And him eating up minutes other guys need is ridiculous. TWill is FAR better than ANY of our wing players. TWill’s the guy we need to give big minutes, not role players like CLee, Morrow or Outlaw.
yeah, why do you call him "Twitt" constantly?
and then complain to NetsDaily about the way that I belittled DeMarcus Cousins because of his weight issues?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Why do you have such a problem with me calling him Twitt.
I explained it already. I like that nickname. If you dont, too bad. But it does not mean i hate anyone.
Just because a guy Tweets(I assume that’s why you call him that) doesn’t mean anything. Let’s give him time to mature. he played very well towards the end of last year.
You overrate his play at the end of last season.
And once again, the nickname is very complex and has to do with more then just Twitter. And it is by no means a sign of hatred. Its a fun nickname and i like it so please find a new argument as why i hate him.
I don't care about that
I just find it funny that you found it soooo offensive that i was making fun of some kid’s weight, told Nets Daily about it in an attempt to get me banned, when yet, you are constantly bad mouthing a player on the Nets roster and referring to him as “twitt”. What’s good with that?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
what part of this don't you understand?
yeah, why do you call him “Twitt” constantly?
and then complain to NetsDaily about the way that I belittled DeMarcus Cousins because of his weight issues?
You cry to the site’s moderator about me making fun of a player, and this is cool to you? You can say whatever, I just find it laughable that you’d do something like that and then try to rat me out about some fat jokes.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
flagged.
ND, is gotta have a blast delete all these.
You posted personal attacks, and then run around flagging posts that don't break the rules
Have fun with that bro. Your comments below are out of line.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
a chucker that can’t shoot?
A chucker who cant shoot? How about a wing who can pass the basketball like if he was a PG and who can rebound as if he was a big man? That’s what makes him special, unlike role players like CLee. TWill is a STUD.
no that just makes him a really good role player
just like a wing who can shoot and defend like C.Lee is a really good role player.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Also, Twitt for Rubio
That is actually an excellent idea. Minny has 2 PGs and they are now stocked at SF but they still have no playmaker and are very weak at SG. Twitt is ideal for them imo. His value clearly isn’t high enough for Rubio by himself, but maybe we can work some sort of package here.
that would piss me off
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
For the third time, we need to trade TWill
while his value is at a high (which is now). He is not a winning player, not good within a winning, structured environment. He is good at streetball, which is the system Kiki ran late last year.
As the team is constituted this is a reasonable thing to say. His value is really high right now, although some Net fans think he is a “triple double machine” and the “next Jason Kidd”…if any other GMs think this as well, it would be a good time.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I was about to ask
is his value really that high outside of nets fan boards?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I don't think so
for crying out loud he is playing in the summer league
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
summer league
he and DJ were on 1st team orlando mvp’s
for crying out loud he is playing in the summer league
Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Other top prospects both from last year’s draft and this year’s are playing or will play the SL, most of them were selected ahead of TWill and are guys you’d not question. Nets fans are unbelievable. smh
I feel like
we’ve been throught this before. Nets fans need some kind of whippy boy or someone to call a jerk. CDR and Yi are gone, so let the TWill bashing begin.
I mean,w hen you read comments like this:
He is not a winning player, not good within a winning, structured environment. He is good at streetball
Wow. Just wow. I guess Pitino’s system was like that, too. Not winning basketball. I also guess it was coincidence that the team becaome way more exciting and we started to compete at a higher level and winning more games when TWill broke out.
This is from a letter from Avery to season ticket holders
The Nets will be a young but athletic and very competitive team. We are still in the process of filling out our roster, but as you can see from our summer league play and with the signing of Travis Outlaw, we will possess the athleticism necessary to compete at a high level during the upcoming season. I am very encouraged by the play of our draft picks, Derrick Favors and Damion James, and Terrence Williams has shown leadership and maturity in Orlando, which bodes well for the future.
a voice or reason...
Thank you Andres B for all the valid points that you have made about T-Will. I really can’t see how anyone would want to trade him now when the season hasn’t even started, to me it seems a bit premature. If he was late to the bus for whatever reason I am sure Avery handled the situation and put the fear of God in him.
T-Will has a sparkle to him that just makes you smile when you watch him play. To say I am biased (yes.) I was fortunate to watch T-Will play at Louisville, each and every year he grew as a player and he was always and still is the most beloved player to ever play there.
Just my opinion, but it would be a mistake to get rid of him now, and we’ve made enough mistakes as it is.
at aunt-B
T-Will has a sparkle to him that just makes you smile when you watch him play.
Agreed.
During the last couple of months the season, the whole team became so exciting thanks to TWill’s breakout, it became exciting to watch this team again, after the putrid season we were having. Not only that, we became more competitive once TWill explode.
exactly
When he plays with his head on straight, it gives you some hope for this franchise.
I just want to see T-Will become more disciplined and take on the challenge of being a leader instead of being late for stuff and not thinking before he hits the “send” button on twitter
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't get why anyone thinks we are overrating his game during the last couple of mothns...
He was even awarded the Rookie of the month
Other than Brook who was the last Net to accomplish that?
He averaged 14-7-5 in March, 14-7-5 in April, and during that 2 months stretch we won almost the same amount of games we won in the previous 4 months (5 wins during that 1 and haf month stretch, we had won just 7 in the previous 4 months)..
now....
…the same critics that will dismiss T-Will’s last two months are the same ones that hype up Courtney Lee’s February and March where he was on fire from deep.
Everyone that was left on the roster in the wake of last season’s abomination have shown some type of promise, period. I like everyone on this roster, and that includes harris who i am highly critical of because I think now with the floor spread he’ll play well
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
5 wins in a month is nothing to celebrate.
Just cause its more then 0 the previous month doesn’t mean its good. Twitt played well those last 2 month, but you’re acting as if he played like an all-star. I mean there were posts comparing him to Lebum for gods sake and you dont get why i think people are overrating his play?
Rookie of the month is nice, but that doesn’t mean his game is perfect. His game is actually incredibly flawed despite the pretty numbers. And i mean Stephon Marbury flawed. Terrible decision making, turnover prone chucking. 4 times over 20 shots in his last 15 (or so games) compared to ONCE in FOUR years of college. Yeah, lets celebrate and build around that since we want Twitt taking 20 shots a game.
Who compared him to Lebron?
and no one wants him taking a ton of shots. Anyone who wants this team to succeed wants to see T-Will play under control, distribute the ball, get to the basket, rebound, and defend.
He is a second year player that showed a lot of promise. I think anyone who would compare Williams to Lebron is silly, just like you comparing him to Stephon Marbury is just baffling.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
That's Funny.....
I say “Thank You , Jesus” after every ten minutes on the Treadmill…..
Sounds like he thinks he’s going to start.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Petro?
Never seen or heard of this guy. He’s not a rotation player, is he? I hope he and Zoubek will not compete for the 12 minutes a game that Brook is not on the court? We need to sign someone to really play the 4 and backup the 5. I’ve got a sick feeling in my belly that we are not going to sign a decent PF/BU5. We need help!
Paul from Delray Beach
Back in January 2008
I went to a Nets Sonics game and he looked like the French version of Tim Duncan…22 points on 10 of 15 shooting, 9 boards, 3 blocks (he is a very good shot blocker). He’s athletic, a hard worker and someone who is a low risk/moderate reward player.
He’s a very good skills guy. The only thing is Duncan’s B-IQ is off the charts, and Petro isn’t very b-ball sharp. Its a big difference. He is at most a very good patrol the line guy.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember that game.....
That was another one of those nights where a little known player has a career night against the Nets…….I remember sayin , "Why can’t we find players like that " …?….Hopefully , Petro will do alot of that now…..
Perhaps Net brass was thinking the very same thing as you that night.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Lets go with Viktor Khryapa…i love AK47…but i dont want to give up lee+picks and take on 18$ million…
I love the idea of staying $15m under the cap so that we can take advantage of some of the desperate teams around deadline time…
Harris/Farmar
Clee/Morrow
Outlaw/Twill/James
Khryapa/Favors/Hump
Brook/Petro
Khryapa can play defense…stroke it and pass it…what more to ask for…and will come cheap
"We’re the new Nets. We’re leaving the old behind and we’re in with the new. Hopefully LeBron is going to be a part of that."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Where have you seen Khryapa play?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
won't come cheap
Khryapa is one of the highest paid players in European basketball, making 2.5 million Euros net per year, which is at least the equivalent of the NBA’s mid-level exception, something that makes it a little difficult to see him coming back to the States anytime soon.
From DraftExpress.com http://www1.draftexpress.com/profile/Viktor-Khryapa-3143/#ixzz0tKbX2fB9
http://www.draftexpress.com
what does net per year mean?
After taxes?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
must be
Since the mid level exception this year is $5.854 million, I don’t see how $2.5 million equals that when the exchange rate is (1 euro = 1.2645 US dollar). It must mean after taxes.
does he play for a Russian team
bc that league just went under and they are starting a new league. That may effect finances.
yeah but so has the dollar
I don’t think the exchange rate has changed much
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The exchange rate has changed
Dramatically over the last 3 months. The Euro was in free fall and the Dollar rose at the same time. Going to Europe on vacation? Go now.
i say try for AK47
if the jazz decide to match the Blazers offer for Matthews then they might need to get rid of AK47. I don’t see any reason for us not to take his huge final year salary on. It expires in 12 months and allows us to be a player in next years free agent market. We also get a veteran presence for this team who can play defence and the fact he is Russian would please MP.
by Yi Of Little Faith on Jul 10, 2010 8:10 PM EDT reply actions
this
They’ll need to get some salary cap reliefe if they plan on matching for Mathews, which would make sense for them since he’s young and could be part of their rebuilding process, which AK obviously won’t.
Trade a couple of future 2nd rounders for him.
Harris/Farmar
Lee/Morrow
Outlaw/williams/James
Kirilenko/Favors/Humphries
Lopez/Petro/Zoubek
There is nothing better than to be "OKC East" as Net Income calls it
said back in May this should be our motto for the upcoming season.
Nets in 10-11 = OKC in 08-09
I.E. a very slow start, but marked improvement late in the season resulting from strong coaching (we have a highly credentialed coaching staff) and a smart pick in the draft next year to plug a hole. Then we make a playoff run the following year, and a championship run our first year in Brooklyn.
we need Durant first
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
nah
Outlaw is more Durantish. Gina’s favorite.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
dude if outlaw turns into him I will make a fan post everyday eating my words saying I love outlaw
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Hes not turning into him, but alas, neither is James.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
But at least he has flashes of Durant
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
why do people say "we need Durant"
Does OKC have (future)-dominant bigman combination like Lopez and Favors
you are right, Favors if flat out dominant, what are we all talking about. Who needs an MVP of the league type candidate?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
you are saying we have different strengths then okc
durant was mentioned cause someone compared us to okc
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I'm not comparing us to OKC as far as our roster
I’m comparing us as far as our rebuilding plans and timetable…obviously.
It's a dumb joke, then
Jokes are funny if they’re grounded in truth. That ostensible joke is not grounded in reality.
It requires you equating Favors to Durant, which is completely inane. Nobody knows what Favors is going to be, or if he is going to be anything.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it doesn't
People are saying OKC is a championship team due to Durant and Westbrook — outside players.
I’m saying we could POTENTIALLY have a championship team due to strong inside players — Lopez and Favors.
What are the teams with such a POTENTIALLY strong 4-5 combo? Clippers with Kaman and Griffin and Portland (maybe) with Oden and Aldridge and of course Gasol and Bynum in L.A. but that is unlikely to last for years.
But Favors has to become dominate first before that talk starts IMO
Since the face been revealed the game got real
You are missing the point.
The point is that there has never in the history of the league (with the possible exception of one year with Detroit) been a championship team without a Hall of Fame player (and usually there are two or three.
You need a certain level of player, history has shown that.
You don’t need “really good front court scoring” or “dynamic wing players” or “super rebounding”. You need MVP type HOF type players. It doesn’t matter if they are guards (Old School Pistons) or front court players (Boston) or both.
So when people compare the progress of the Nets to the Thunder they are missing ONE thing, the Thunder have the blessing of a very special player, the kind of player that is VERY, VERY hard to get.
If they didn’t have Durant but instead had let us say Josh Smith, they would be like everyone else. Middle of the pack.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it comes down to our basic difference
I believe that it is more probable that Favors becomes a special player. But if he does and you add Lopez, wouldn’t you admit that that third player is more than attainable with the assets that we have?
He can’t become “special”. He has to become a Hall of Fame player. Do you HONESTLY believe that he is going to be a Hall of Fame player???
Amare Stoudemire probably isn’t a Hall of Fame player.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If that is all he’s going to be it isn’t good enough. “Multiple Allstar selections” don’t win Championships.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I get the fact he was drafted 3rd, but we seem to be putting too much on him right away. We have to let him develop. I know we have no real adequate PF to start for him, but still…….
wait what?
more probable? I don’t understand that, in general it’s more probable that prospects, ESPECIALLY big men bust. So how could it be more probable that he becomes a game changer, not even a serviceable role player but a game changer, than a bust.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I can't say what he is going to become
but I really like him. I have been following the draft for years and he is a special bigman.
following the draft for years? What does that mean?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I don't know
It is an obsession. But I guess that’s why we are here. But I can say that it starting reading multiple mock drafts in newspapers and going to nbadraft.net until draftexpress gave the best reports.
Look, I’m not saying I’m an expert. I don’t even have access to film on these players. But I locked in on Favors two years ago. He disappointed this year and there are some problematic aspects to his game. He is the best big man I have seen in a long time.
I would take him over Blake Griffin. I did like Kwame Brown.
Bro
You’re a good poster, and don’t take this the wrong way, but i’m glad you don’t work for the organization if you liked Kwame Brown.
lupojohn3 is one of my favorite posters here.
by Jarkid Shen on Jul 10, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
lol seriously
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Wow. That is brave to admit that you liked Kwame, honestly, especially since Favors and Kwame may be somewhat similar (though Favors doesn’t have freakishly small hands). Griffin in my mind is a monster, and has a super polished post game, none of which Favors has.
And have you watched Summer League, Favors is pretty much lost at this point. He may grow out of it, but there is also the possibilty that he will be stuck in remedial game understanding.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
that was my point
I will make my mistakes. But I have been right a lot too.
he is 6'10 and 250lbs
its to early to say either way, but it is exciting to hope he is a game changer, he isn’t done growing yet. but lets see how he does adjusting to the nba.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
i mean i like him too
i love him, i’ve been arguing for him all summer. But that doesn’t change the fact it is more likely for him to not be an impact player that it is for him to be.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Gina
If we had a serviceable PF to start over him, and let him develop, would you feel differently?
no
while situation does play a role, it’s just a fact, that big men bust are higher rates. And really more often than not draft picks don’t turn out to be stars.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
It would at least IMPROVE his chances. You have to admit.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
well yeah I agree
which is why I’m hoping they have some sort of plan D in the works.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I agree historically if thats what you mean. But you are saying based on how many other players were buststhat were suppost to be great. You are not saying based onwhat you saw so far by looking t Favors right??
If so we agree completely
Since the face been revealed the game got real
yes thats exactly what I'm saying
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I’m saying on what I’ve seen so far. He was a low energy, passive player in College (from what I saw), and he has been something of the same in Summer League. He is way behind the curve in many fundamental things (like boxing out, like floor spacing, like weakside rebounding), the kinds of things that are not easy to learn at the NBA level. And he lacks a certain intensity.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I agree
I didn’t see enough of his college games, I think I had about five on TV, but he was not even part of the offense. Friday’s game, which you missed, showed how he could elevate his game when he became part of the offense.
I don’t think that he is the brightest guy, but he does surprise me at times with some basketball moves that he makes. He looks like a man and he is still a boy, he works hard and I think he will improve alot under this coaching staff.
I did miss the first half of his break out game, but I do agree that he has “moves”. The part about him not being the brightest guy on the court is a HUGE thing for me. To become a special player you have to be instinctive, or analytical (or at best both), but he seems like neither. This puts a ceiling on him for me, he will not be GREAT. I could be wrong, but its what I see at an early stage. And the other thing that is missing is the burning fire. He might have it buried way deep inside of him, but the fire is not there. And that is another thing that seems to put a ceiling on him for me. No fire, no mental sharpness. These are troubling aspects.
I have no doubt that he can dunk all over the place – he’s done tons of that in High School. And I do think he can be trained to do some very nice things, but “special player” I have serious doubts about. And Hall of Fame, even more doubts about.
Hopefully he is a quiet type that keeps a lot of things inside and they will come out. I have my doubts.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
What are the teams with such a POTENTIALLY strong 4-5 combo? Clippers with Kaman and Griffin and Portland (maybe) with Oden and Aldridge and of course Gasol and Bynum in L.A. but that is unlikely to last for years.
None if these combos will produce a championship unless there are HoF players involved.
Griffin may become this type, but it is still doubtful, and he would probably need another HoF type.
Portland has Roy, a very good candidate.
Bynum and Gasol have Kobe.
Its about transcendent players. Thats what this league is.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
You would make a WONDERFUL candidate for the Nets Presidency
I guess we ought to tank every season until we happen to be lucky enough to get a “transcendent” player in the draft…because there’s no other way for us to get one. As we’ve just seen, we can’t get one in free agency. We tried to get one in the draft but failed (Wall). I guess we should just keep tanking and tanking.
BigTom
We would have had one in free agency…….if we were in Brooklyn.
Let me interview for the Presidents’ job. With my passion for the team, I think I could pull it off.
Yes, we would have had one in Brooklyn (but i think Lebron had this Miiami thing planned out way in advance), and we ALMOST had one in Wall (probably) if we had the ping pong balls right.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
if we'd gotten Wall and where in Brooklyn
we might have two
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Ring, Ring.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right, but the opt-out clause signals the Brooklyn intentions.
Ah, let’s see if Wall lives up to the hype. He’s got a ball-hog in Arenas there, so he’s got to feed his ego.
that is going to be one hell of a running gunning team.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
yeah but we all knew as soon as they got the first and Wall
Arenas was gone as soon as he is tradeable again.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
If you don't like the facts of life in the NBA
You can always stick your head in the proverbial sand and keep saying “Let’s go Nets!”
Its just the facts of the way the League works. I’m not telling you its great, its just the way it is.
Why do you think Miami blew up its team??? Because they know the rule of HOF.
Why do you think Thorn took that risk with KIdd? Because he knew the rule of HOF.
It is a fact that by being in the middle of the pack your chances of moving from there to a Championship are almost nil.
you go from the bottom to the top, or the top to the top. The middle guys almost never go anywhere.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok so let's tank and tank and tank
one of these days we’ll win the lottery.
And as I wrote elsewhere, I suspect we still have a major trade in our future. Modeling our rebuilding process after OCK does not preclude us from attaining a HOV player per your theory. My point is about the actual rebuilding process itself and what our expectations and goals should be this year. I’m happy to hear “OKC East.” Then you drifted onto this HOV player topic.
if we have a major trade in works that's one thing
i hope you’re right.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
that's Gina's thought.
Its exactly how the Spurs and ’Boston ended up with Dynasties. And also why there is a draft lottery now.
I don’t think you can tank now, we already tanked. We are now going up the elevator. You just have to be realistic. If your aim is a championship your chances of getting that special player are going to be reduced. Everything you do has to be aimed at trading for him, which is why the Nets are going to keep salary cap room.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Actually Boston Loaded up on high upside high school kids
Green didn’t pan out but Jefferson and Perkins did.
The thing is that there is not ONE plan because the NBA landscape keeps changing. At that time you could just compile picks and take chances on high school kids. Today, you can draft guys and stash them overseas. After the new CBA, we will see. That is why the new GM is going to be the most important offseason move.
he's talking about Larry Bird boston
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
that was a long time ago
did they even have a salary cap then?
What Red Auerbach knew, and he is largely thought of as the greatest GM mind in basketball, was that you have to be bad enough to be good. You can’t middle of the road it.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I wish someone would explain that to my hockey
team gm cause I guess that concept is like spanish to him lol
Since the face been revealed the game got real
solid post, KV
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
tanking just to tank is a fail strategy
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
tom I didn't think much of him until
I saw him play I would take him over Lebron..he was the MVP last year
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Durant is already top five in the league
Bryant, LeBron, Wade, Durant, Howard
As Bryant regresses and LeBron and Wade have to share the ball and compromise their individual performance a little bit in order to win, Durant is going to stand out as the premier wing player in the league numbers-wise.
That is not what I’m debating.
Favors most likely projection is something like Al Horford
Al Horford and Brook Lopez aren’t going to have the same impact as Durant.
Not to mention adding relatively impactful big men seems to be easier now days than a scorer like Durant.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
It's nonsense to say Favors is projected to become Horford
Please, Amar’e with defense is more like it…as far as a ceiling (i.e. speaking only about potential, not current skills).
Besides, 29 teams in the league don’t have Durant. I guess they should just fold it in. “We don’t have Durant.” We (potentially) could have different strengths from OKC. There is more than one way to build a championship. But using OKC as a model for how to go about building a championship, as we seem to be doing, is something that pleases me to see.
Also, I expect us to make a trade. Trading TWill is my hope — in exchange for a legitimate starting PF.
The Durant Point isn't that you need Durant
Its that you need an MVP type, HoF type player. Comparing your team to other young teams when you don’t have that player is ridiculous.
And it is equally ridiculous to say that Favors is going to be Amare plus defense. The guy is years away from being anything, and right now he has as about as much bust as he does greatness in him.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think its ridiculous to make any comparison
We need to sit back and watch him develop. He certainly didn’t look like Horford on Friday. He looks like he could play center eventually. Maybe the Nets will package Lopez for a star. You never know.
yeah as far as ceiling
I’m not talking about ceiling I’m talking about most reasonable prediction. Him being a horford clone is the most reasonable prediction.
And there’s a reason the number of teams who have actually won championships is so small, it’s because 29 teams don’t have a Durant.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I've read the Horford predictions
Honestly, he reminds me of Patrick Ewing. More athletic and not as polished, but I think his upside is that of a more athletic Patrick Ewing.
yeah but upside
and most likely scenario are not the same thing. Sure he has kg upside, but there’s a reason there’s only one kg despite tons of prospects who have come out since KG with KG upside.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
great point about upside vs most likely scenario. People, well fans, confuse these too regularly.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I am bullish on Favors
I even more that he is not ready to help them win games yet meaning they will suck this year and get another good player if they get lucky in the draft.
plus I think people sleep on Horford
I don’t think he’s a game changer, but if Favors turns out to be a similar player in 2 or so years I’ll be very happy with the pick, considering the rate big men bust at even an above average role player is a success. And I don’t really expect anyone drafted after him, maybe Paul George Xavier Henry, to be much better than that either.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
george is a wing player too
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
probably because they had Granger
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I'm not as down on this roster as other are
Young Athletic longer if we get morrow couple of shooters around Lopez who will be an allstar and Favors who just needs time, but him being ambidextrous is a great quality, we have the makings of a tough team, especially with T-Will coming in unless he starts scaring opposing teams in the pick and roll, will morrow in the corner Lopez in the post and Favors ranging for the alley-oop just saying guys don’t sleep on the roster, we actually have coaching this year.
Btw the post above saying GS is over the tax is not accurate.
They are close, but still about 5 mil under.
Before or after signing Wright?
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 10, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
NI
Just read through article and posts and was just wondering why you didn’t mention anything about the search for a new GM. Has there really been that little movement this week?
Billy King to Interview with Nets http://sbnation.com/e/1327553
less than a minute ago via SB Nation
what
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
jarkid
thats crazy talk, although brook is a nice player, would 6 franchises put their season’s on hold for 2 years for brook, cause they would for durant?
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Kobe wasn't top 2 pick, either.
If our players gets well-coached, don’t be surprised, the Nets win 40 next season.
by Jarkid Shen on Jul 10, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If kobe came out today he would be a top five pick easy
life has changed
what does where he was picked have to do with anything?
and he wasn’t a top 2 pick because he wouldn’t sign with anyone.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
No matter what, some of our young players are going to be great next season.
Nobody can really tell the situation would remain the same.
by Jarkid Shen on Jul 10, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
then why John Wall didn't do the same like Kobe, he could just say I would only play for Jersey
by Jarkid Shen on Jul 10, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a Great Point , Jarkid...
A coach has alot to do with the development of young players especially Rookies….We have had a Huge problem with that in the past but I think that with Avery around , our Rookies are going to turn out to be outstanding players in the NBA….Imagine how good Lopez will be this year…Thank God that he had VC to coach him along for his first year…
I think the Nets will have to make a decision about this team after next year. I think this team will improve enough this year to win about 30 games.
Kidd Carter Jefferson gave us 42, 49, 41 wins together...
I think our youngster should train hard to achieve that goals..
by Jarkid Shen on Jul 10, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The decision will be either to add to the current core or try to trade Lopez and anyone else and start fresh.
How much fresher can you get then Lopez?? or were you making a joke and I am not picking it up??
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Well, I am just mad that the Nets didn’t sign one of the power forwards in free agency. It was a golden opportunity to sign an impact player. If they had signed David Lee or Boozer to go along with Favors and James then I would have thought the off season was a success.
we wouldn't win with those guys
there is no reason to get stuck paying 16 million a year to a PF that won’t make up contenders.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
i see now why i didn't bother posting in this thread
some of this stuff, really folks….
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 11, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
I talked about the mets before and got yelled at. LOL
Since the face been revealed the game got real
there's a mets specific board on sb nation
amazin avenue
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
yeah probably more often than I do here
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Moves
I think Outlaw will surprise. He has never played out of that logjam with Portland (Injured with the Clippers) and given free reigns in that position. He should be very productive, and it looks like he will be battling James for that spot so he will have to be top of his game. A little pricey, but so is everyone right now. MANY teams will have contracts they’re offering now but will be unloading before they are up, so we are not falling behind anyone by spending our money.
Morrow…love it! But think Golden State will match or force us to trade. I wouldn’t give up much for a guy that put up big numbers on an offensive minded team. Curious how he will do playing D and having Avery ride him. Still love the O and we definitely need scorers!
Johan Petro. Seems Pricey, he can’t do much but we’re not asking him to do much other than rebound and block shots…where there is room for growth. Jury’s out.
I am not going to agree or disagree with your post. I can understand all the moves just wish Outlaw was a shorter term. If you posted those same words, and he was a second year player then ok. But this is his 7th or 8th year in the league, this whole give him a shot and you will be suprised stuff idk. If your in the league 7 years and you haven’t worked your way into a major contribution role on a team then what does that say. Like I said I would love to be wrong
Morrow by the way is a 45% 3 point shooter, for 4 million dollars, you take that and run and hide and act like you stole something cause you just did. That was my favorite move so far.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
but that is 7 years starting from High School. So it is really 4 straight old fashioned years. Okay, and the last of those was ruined by injury. So we are left with 3 years. In those three years he was a Portland 4th quarter guy, a team with Brandon Roy on it, who is a dynamic finisher himself. He has a liquid, long offensive game as well. And by report he has worked so hard on his shot when he came into the league he couldn’t shoot at all.
We know he isn’t going to be a superstar, but he might very well be a deceptive, potent scorer, exactly what you want from a starting small forward.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Why are the Nets waiting until Monday to give Morrow an offer sheet?
Anyone know?
Other teams, I believe, are interested in him.
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 11, 2010 12:32 AM EDT reply actions
read that he needs to take a physical on monday
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
He is hanging out in the summer league right now.
Doctor’s can do physical’s on the weekend.
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 11, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m telling you what I read. I’m not trying to convince you.
If Warriors match the Nets offer then Anthony Morrow will have to decide himself about his future association. Anthony Morrow has yet to take a physical for Nets on Monday.
All the necessary discussions with regards to the acquisition of Anthony Morrow have been finalized by the Nets and both the parties will sign the authentic agreement on Monday, July 12.
The only thing left before signing the contact with Nets is Anthony Morrow’s physical test, which is scheduled on Monday and after that, the contract signing will be done.
The Golden State Warriors aren’t expected to match the offer, a league source said. Morrow has to take a physical Monday before he can sign the offer sheet. The Warriors will then have seven days to decide to match.
I could quote more sources, but they all say the same thing.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 11, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Apparently the NETS have offered Haslem 3 years, 20 million
But Haslem is cool in the idea.
Haslem has received offers from at least three teams, including a three-year, $20 million deal from New Jersey. But he would prefer to return to the Heat, where he has spent all seven of his NBA seasons and was a starter on Miami’s 2006 title team.
``I’m really excited for the organization, whether I’m back or not,‘’ said Haslem, who probably would have to take a significant pay cut from the $7 million he earned last season in Miami should he return. ``I would love to be a part of the organization as long as I possibly can. But it has to be a good situation. It has to work for both sides.’’
One key reason Wade signed for less money was to make room for Haslem, who has been stalked by the Heat since the July 1 start of free agency.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager

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