Nets Reach Agreement with Johan Petro
by NetsDaily on Jul 10, 2010 10:53 AM EDT
in 2010 Free Agency
621 comments
The Nets have reportedly reached an agreement with back-up center Johan Petro on a three-year contract worth $10 million. Petro is a five-year veteran, but is just 24 years old. He played in just 36 games for the Nuggets last season, averaging 3.4 points and 3.6 rebounds in 12.0 minutes per game. The athletic seven-footer averaged 4.8 points and 5.6 rebounds in 16 games as a starter late last season when Kenyon Martin went down.
With the signings of Petro, Travis Outlaw and Anthony Morrow, the Nets are roughly $18 million under the salary cap and still about $3 million short of the league-mandated minimum payroll of $43.5 million.
Petro had his career best game against the Nets in January 2008, scoring 22 points on 10 of 15 shooting, grabbing nine rebounds and blocking three shots, in a Nets double digit victory over the Sonics.
- Center Johan Petro has reached agreement - Adrian Wojnarowksi - Yahoo!
- Picking Up Pieces - Al Iannazzone - In the 'Zzone
- Nets reach agreement with backup C Johan Petro - AP
- Nets to sign Johan Petro; Morrow on hold - Dave D'Alessandro - Star-Ledger
- Makin' Moves - Stefan Bondy - The InterNets
- Johan Petro Leaves Denver, Gets Three-Year Deal With Nets - Chris Tomasson - FanHouse
- The Nets may or may not be a chicken with its head cut off, sign Johan Petro - Matt Moore - NBC Sports
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this is pretty good
Yeah, we need a gang of fairly good bigs. It’s almost as good as having 2 fantastic bigs – you can sometimes beat the team with the fantastic bigs. it’s…80% as good.
well
we do need a backup center so i guess this works! Cheap too
by corky_romano4life on Jul 10, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions
i hope we still keep boone.
"We’re the new Nets. We’re leaving the old behind and we’re in with the new. Hopefully LeBron is going to be a part of that."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
is this a joke
he’s so limited offensively it hurts
by corky_romano4life on Jul 10, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah cause you can't place a value on a guy that can ace an airball from the FT line
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
is petro not?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
In reality
I dont think anyone will sign Josh Boone…just saying
by RandyOreens on Jul 10, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Next move is a trade for a PF and maybe signing a PG
How does Nene sound? I dont think hes available but I think he would fit great next to brook.
"We’re the new Nets. We’re leaving the old behind and we’re in with the new. Hopefully LeBron is going to be a part of that."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
I still think the best move is signing Al Harrington for 2 years. I know its been brought up , Favors will maybe be nasty by then
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Harrington is a 3
at least he plays like one
"We’re the new Nets. We’re leaving the old behind and we’re in with the new. Hopefully LeBron is going to be a part of that."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
Why did he play in so few games?
Was it due to injury or was he not good enough to get onto the court?
Avery is bringing in a West coast feel to the Nets. Look at who we’re picking up and where they’ve played.
He was playing
behind Nene and Chris Anderson.
by baronkadonk on Jul 10, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok........ But can he And OutLaw get new numbers???
That 27 is a ridiculous basketball #. Its like summer league. And the 25 isn’t that much sexier. Maybe new numbers help re-invent them as well.
The NETS are coming!
Another........
Nice move by the Nets……Young,Quick,Chemistry………
Well at least no one will be mad about the Outlaw signing anymore now that we have him
He’s a minimum salary player on a normal market, would be worth less than a million
minimum salary?
From Draftexpress:
Outlaw was on the verge of becoming a journeyman in some people’s eyes as recently as last season, but by the time he hits free agency again the 23 year old should command quite a bit of attention around the league.
Last year he was a 4-5 million a year player, the Nets overpaid by 2-3 million, which is a lot but not that much.
Attention does not equal money
I can guarantee you that I will kneel before you and apologize if you can find someone that would have paid him 4 million a year last year or any year
"which is a lot but not that much"
My brain hurts trying to decipher this grammatical mess by DraftExpress.
Are you complaining about a backup
center, possibly when its all said and done he might even be third string
Since the face been revealed the game got real
instead of the big names
we are getting very young
and staying true to touting BLopez/Harris as our star
I also think that......
Proky is being asked for his opinion before we make any of these deals…..
on what?
where to party in turkey while your new acquisition falters?
by ILikeSports on Jul 10, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I am not a big fan of this contract but
There is a salary cap MINIMUM and we are well below that.
So I think there a few more deals like this coming unless we trade for a larger contract.
Annoying question, but what happens if you sign 15 players and you're below the minimum
Is there a fine from the NBA offices?
I have to assume we are gearing up for a trade considering we need a backup PG who won’t command that much and a starting PF who won’t command too many minutes so as to impede Favors’s development. Something’s gotta give.
what I mean is that given our needs, we still might not reach the salary minimum
so something’s gotta give
He's Better Than Boone At Least... I Hope
Harris / Uzoh
C.Lee / T.Williams / Ross
Outlaw / D.James
Favors / Humphries
Lopez / Petro / Zoubek
+
Morrow?
Still need a PF and a back-up PG.
I still like one year deals to fill salary like Murphy, and I think Indiana would like a major Trade Exception for him in order to sign a PG and save money.
Move Twill to "back-up PG" and Morrow to "back-up SG"
Me gusta.
" I'm really excited to take the worst team in the league and turn it to be the best in the league." --Mikhail Prokhorov.
nah, t-will is not a PG
doesn’t care for the ball enough. There’s a fanpost debating the subject, if you are interested.
Boone AND Zoubek are better than Petro.
It is not the money. it is the term. 3 years? Pay Boone 1 year for 3 mil and fill the spot
agreed but he is better than Petro.
There is a reason this guy has been tendered. 0 Basketball IQ and all athleticism. Mistake-prone players will be in Avery’s doghouse and his effort game to game is questionable as well. Boone has effort questions but generally makes the right decision on the floor and is a good passer and decent rebounder. Petro is NONE of those
Again are you talking athleticism or basketball players?
Zoubek has more of a low post game now, is a good passer, and has a high basketball. His weaknesses are strength and athleticism. It is currently unknown whether his rebounding will translate over into the pros. He may need a year or two in Europe to close the strength gap.
Boone is a good passer, decent rebounder, and generally doesn’t make the team worse out there.
Petro’s effort comes and goes. He makes bad decisions on the floor, cannot pass, and has no low post game to speak of. For someone of his athleticism he is almost equal to Boone as a shotblocker (Boone .7 to Petro .6). If you have league pass you know this. I do. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. He averaged 7 minutes as a reserve which means he was a bit player without a regular role. I don’t know about you but that doesn’t sound to me like the guy you give a three year contract too. But at least he will be able to buy some nice looking suits to sit at the end of the bench.
if he was able to get some kinda minutes in Denver
im sure he will crack the nets rotation, if josh boone was in the rotation im sure petro will play more than he did
He didn't get minutes is the point
36 games played out of 82. Then even when he played as a reserve he was ineffective and played only 7 minutes per game. As a starter he played 18 minutes and still averaged under 5ppg. Guys that deserve minutes force the coach’s hand. They also take advantage of opportunities when they start.
He didn't get minutes in his previous teams either.
Petro is a scrub. A back-ups back-up. To put things in perspective. Everyone was bitching about Humph not opting out and apparently he thought he wouldn’t get an offer close to 3.2 mil. Well, Petro will be making MORE and if it came down to Perto vs Humph, i’d play Humph 48 minutes.
Gosh
Don’t like the deal at all for Petro, even Boone is better than this guy. If they were going to take a flier on a 7 foot Frenchman, I would have preferred Mahinmi.
Petro.....
will do well……He’s young and this is the best oppurtunity that he will get…Let’s hope that his Big Paycheck will give him even more inspiration…..
Yeah, it works the opposite way around
Big paychecks have never motivated anyone once they were signed. Big paychecks that HAVEN’T been signed on the other hand…
Well.....
It’s not a Huge paycheck but it’s bigger than he thought he could get so I hope that this inspires him to play hard for the next bigger paycheck……
Shamsports
Per Woj, Nets give three years and $10 million for Johan Petro, a minimum salary calibre player with a career high PER of 11.6. Yeah. No.
Hehe...
From Gay and Lee to Outlaw and Petro. Watch out NBA, the Nets are coming.
Nothing wrong with that......
Same type of players who did not get the same oppurtunities…..
Nothing wrong with that huh?
I like the optimism.
are we overpaying to hit the minimum???
Don’t get me wrong, it would make much more sense to sign better players, but Thorn’s proving quite fallible lately.
moving in the right direction
anyone whos seen the summer league games knows b.zoubek is NOWHERE near ready fpr the nba-in any capacity. i would rather hump be our back upcetner than him.
Petro is young- true 7 footer- not as weak as yi- had some double figure rebounding games when he got the minutes but i mean the poor guy was stuck behind camby-kmart-nene-chris anderson-ronaldo balkman.
honestly probably one of the better backup centers left- lets not dellude ourselves into thinking we would have signed shaq or brad miller to inflated contracts- especially when they are both significantly older and on a ridiculous decline.
now im waiting for our pf :) Lets hope we get scola, murphy, al harrington, or j thompson. i just really dont want nasty haslem
I'd overpay for Scola right now...
by eLonepb on Jul 10, 2010 1:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nice signing
You’re kidding yourself if you think JB is any better than Petro. You’ll see the difference in the first couple of games of the season…
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
thank u! exactly. josh boone is NOT in our future
no free throws. no blocks. no speed. no passion. but i would like to thank him for being a trooper and sticking with it.
we need to change the mindset and Avery is doing that
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Why don't we.....
Trade Boone for a second round pick ??
Right
I have absolutely nothing against JB. He’s an honest worker and plays according to his limitations (which are many, let’s be honest). Good luck to him, wherever he goes next.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
I wouldn't count on Petro to be better than Boone by any wide margin
He has a worse hands rating (turning the ball over) than Boone, has a worse block rating as well (factors in what kind of shots he blocked and if he fouled), worse rebounding rating as well. Better passing rating though. Take a look at their 82games pages for the info
He really isn't a worse rebounder
Just have a look at the way this guy gets his rebounds, compared to JB.
Also, like it was noted before, Petro is a career 66% FT shooter. Josh “Hack-a-Shaq Mk. II” Boone: 44%.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
Boone is a brick layer
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Stats are equal
Boone: 5 & 5 in 18 mins a game.
Petro, 3 and 3 in 12.
that's kind of his point
that more than likely their equal
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
also we all know
josh boone is not the future as our back up center. he cant make free throws if his life depended one it. atleast petro is a near 70% shooter. boone has shown absolutely no improvement and was a first round pick.
Petro doesn't get to the line to worry about it.
He still hasn’t cracked 200 made free throws in his career
this is like Favor's contract...right? 3years/10mil
roughly 3.5 Million per year for the next 3 years is pretty good for this market. Plus he’s a good back-up and I liked the way he played in Denver last year.
" I'm really excited to take the worst team in the league and turn it to be the best in the league." --Mikhail Prokhorov.
boone was terrible
at least this kid is young and will fit in with avery’s west coast approach.
i kinda like Harrington for some points at the 4
we need scoring
current roster is looking at many 80 point games
by ILikeSports on Jul 10, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Backup PF... Louis Amundson
Great engine similar underdog type to morrow, Will rebound and defend and Hustle.
Give him 3 for 10 too!
The NETS are coming!
I probably would've looked to sign someone else for less money
Not like anyone we sign at his level would make much of an impact, including him. No use paying 3 million when you can pay the minimum instead and get the same production
I know this sounds like a flimsy argument, but it isn't I SWEAR!
lol…
We’re going to have to work hard(ish) to make the minimum team salary mark. Overpaying is not an issue AND this is Proky we’re talking about. Does anybody really think he’d ever have an issue paying the luxury tax in future seasons (if it came to that)?
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
I don't care about the luxury tax
I care about not having cap space to sign marquee free agents, or not having moveable deals for trades if we have to make the contracts match.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
we need to et to the cap floor
i undertand ur point though
Since the face been revealed the game got real
He shows more (offensively) in the first 27 seconds of that clip than I’ve ever seen from Josh Boone. I wish that was an exaggeration.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
Oh thats Adam Morrison in a mix
I thought it was Weird Al Yankovich
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Nets are putting a lot a faith in their coaching staff
Signing a bunch of young, athletic players with low basketball IQs
I hope his system is simple
Uhhh last time I checked
Kiki was in the running for CoTY so, yeah, watch your mouth.
CHEMISTRY......
Is the # 1 key to a great NBA Team……..These players that we are signing and that we have are all coachable……They will learn B-Ball IQ
Thoughts on PG/SG?
Can’t argue w/Petro, noone is signing minimum deals and we don’t want this guy playing more than 10-15mins a night w/Lopez manning the middle….my question is whats the deal at backup PG & at SG? 3 25 or under shooting guards and no backup PG, unless they plan on moving T-Will over but during summer league he’s been great except the turnovers, really seems more suited as playmaking SG then playing point. I wanted Farmar but now seems like too much of a logjam for minutes.
Petro's career high was against the Nets
saw the game. I guess Thorn did too.
I still don’t understand why people are upset about spending so little money.
The Nets are still $14 million below the league MINIMUM salary.
It's relatively little
But Petro wasn’t even a guarantee to be in the NBA this season. Under normal circumstances he could have easily been only worth less than a million or a bit more than a million at most.
I got no problem with this guy, 3 year 10 mil. Its not like there are superstars that they are not signing for this type of player.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
are those numbers right?
How can we be 14 million below the league min and only 17 million below the cap. That would mean no team can be more than 3 million below the cap at any given point in the season??
Some of the numbers are wrong here.
The salary floor is 75% of the cap, around 43.5 million. With Morrow and the rookies, the Nets are almost there.
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 10, 2010 11:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
thats assuming gs doesn't match
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Yeah thats what I said last night, but NI explained about they most lkely won’t to get one of their picks back.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Thorn has owned G.S. in deals lately, so you gotta think we'll make out
We’ll get Morrow, give them a second round back, and the first round pick will be protected top 3
Rough numbers here.
Cap is 58 million, the floor is 43.5.
At the begining of FA, the Nets had 32 million to spend. 58-32=26 million committed to next year.
43.5-26=17.5 to meet salary floor (roughly).
7 million for Outlaw and 3 for Petro = 10 million.
That leaves 7.5. Morrow and the rookies would eat most of that. If you don’t get Morrow, sub Farmer.
by No Sleep Till Brooklyn on Jul 10, 2010 11:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yea, the statement that has been bandied about that we need to spend another 14 million to reach the minimum is totally wrong. We are already about at the minimum. This Petro deal is dumb.
we're already at the minimum?
my math has us at like 32 million, since Boone is likely not going to be retained.
19.8 for Harris, Humphries, Lopez, C.Lee, T-will, Quinton Ross and Dooling’s buy out
7 million for Outlaw
3 million for Petro
and about 5-6 million combined for James and Favors
I don’t think Zoubek and Udoh’s deals count do they? Am I missing anything else?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
sure do...
… right now, they count at minimum scale for players with no experience (about $485K).
If they don’t make the roster, the will count at whatever minimum guarantee they received.
75% of the 58 million salary cap is 43.5 million.
Harris, Humphries, Lopez, TWill, Lee, Ross, Dooling is 20 million.
7 million for Outlaw makes 27 million.
5 million for the rooks makes 32 million.
3 million for Petro is 35 million.
IF we get Morrow thats 39 million.
So we could be either about 4 million outside the min or about 8 million outside the min, depending on if GS matches on Morrow.
So we do still have a ways to go. I’d much rather hand out shorter deals on higher salaries than the longer term deals though.
correction
the Nets with the three signings are at $40 million in payroll. They are still $18 million under the cap.
Add Farmar and they would be at the league minimum and have 14 players under contract…but two are non guaranteed (Zoubek and Uzoh) and one could easily be bought out (Ross).
And the following year we lose Humphries’ 3 million salary, but Lopez, TWill, and the rooks salaries would escalate to make it pretty much a wash I think. Do you think they still want to have enough money to try and sign Carmelo outright next summer, or have they given up hope on signing an elite free agent so long as they are in NJ? Cause Prokhy has said if they strike out this year, they would try again next year.
Some of the numbers are wrong here?
You mean…NI is WRONG about something?
GMs fans are not.
Its evident that good FAs aren’t exactly cutting the line to come to the Nets. Tons of teams have cleared roster space for big FAs and now need to fill rosters. You will have to pay 1M, 2M or more for guys that you want before someone else does.
Wait around and you will be signing Adam Morrison for cheap but what is a guy like that really going to do for your roster?
by Whoop Dee Damn Doo on Jul 10, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
DX
Defense: Has the size, length, athleticism and strength to be a good defender, but is very green on the defensive end. Will get fakes off his feet from time to time. Very foul prone. Decent rebounder. Needs experience and seasoning in practice, but may lack the natural feel to get all that much better at this point. Could become a very good shot blocker down the line. Needs to learn how to read offensive players better.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Johan-Petro-45/#ixzz0tIGh4mGr
http://www.draftexpress.com
These guys will get chances to play
They will be coached and can get better. It’s like lotto. Hey you never know… But so was LeBron.
The NETS are coming!
Petro .....
is in great B-Ball shape and seems to be very Coachable…..
BluePrint or Blues print?
I just get the blues when I see how far we have fallen. Greatness or Meekness? Weakness? If he does not land a PF, it would really put a stamp on the Thorn years, b/c that was his biggest failings: he never put a big next to Kidd and he never replaced Martin. Alonzo was close to what we needed, but that old. He just filled in with weak, stretch 4’s. He needs a banger. Favors will be destroyed if he is our starter and it will slow his development. He is not ready. Hump is not a starter, even for a bad team.
Refused to overpay for a stud like Boozer or Amare or even DLee, but seems to be overpaying for minimal players. Petro for 3+ mill per? Outlaw for that much???? Huh?
Maybe and i could be wrong here
They have a real plan and they are working it. Maybe one of the big three they would have went crazy for but that didn’t work so they are regrouping. Maybe.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Im most excited to know who our PF will be...
any predictions?
"We’re the new Nets. We’re leaving the old behind and we’re in with the new. Hopefully LeBron is going to be a part of that."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
He sounds a lot like Diop
and he became a solid backup
I mean for me, if you wanna go sign a scrub-ish young player with some potential
Ian Mahinmi would have been a far better choice.
isn't he an rfa?
i imagine san antonio would match.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
wow then yeah
i don’t understand signing petro over mahinmi at all. I’m shocked they didn’t retain him.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Yeah but
watch, they will trade Petro half way through the season for a real good player to a team trying to dump salary, and he will get us a real good player
Since the face been revealed the game got real
It’s funny how every sign we had so far more people complained about it rather then praising the deal. Wow only in Nets land y’all do this to EVERYBODY we get. T-will last year, C-Lee, gosh can y’all stop complaining for ONCE!
hush… One’s they start producing, they’ll be eating their words..
by TinySarabia on Jul 10, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
When our FA signings this year include overpaying for Travis Outlaw and Johan Petro, I think we have a right to complain. Over 3 million a year for PETRO? That’s literally a million per point a game. He has decent potential but I’m sure we could’ve had him for way less. Same with Travis Outlaw. We’re overpaying for unproven, low b-ball IQ players. I really hope we still have cap flexibility for next year but that seems impossible considering we’re most likely gonna sign Outlaw, Petro, Morrow, and Luis Scola to deals this summer.
by mikegrand15 on Jul 10, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
it's not the 7 million a year
it’s the 5 years.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I could understand the length of the contract but for anybody to say 7 mill is overpaying is ridiculous.
yeah for 7 million I love the signing he's a reasonable gamble
a young very athletic player who’s shown flashes but coming off an injured season that likely lowered his value. My issue is that if the gamble doesn’t pay off we’re still left with a 7 million dollar bench player which could turn into a major overpay for 4 years if there’s a drastic CBA change.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
LOL
I can’t ever get back inot Outlaw, Yeah no good on the years . But I am trying to stay postive about the other signings they made besides him.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Look at Outlaw this way
He’s just keeping the seat warm until 2013.
yeah, the 5 years is a killer
because if James becomes good enough to start, are we really going to want that deal on the books? I’m fine with him here though.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
When you actually watch Outlaw play on a day to day basis, you’ll see why 7 million a year is overpaying.
He couldn’t start over a raw rookie Nicolas Batum down in Portland. He’s been nothing more than a spot starter over his whole career. For a guy who ONLY looks to score, he’s never averaged more than 13 ppg. He’s a horrid defender, a terrible rebounder, and he’s unable to make plays for others. He also did absolutely NOTHING last year.
I’m not saying I hate Travis Outlaw. He can shoot and score in bunches and that’s a valuable skill in this league. I think he can be okay on our team since he’s surrounded by playmakers. But your telling me all those facts I mentioned in the previous paragraph couldn’t bring down his value under the full MLE? It’s also a 5 year contract. Shouldn’t that bring the per year number down?
So, yeah. Until Travis proves to me he can be a full time starter in the NBA, I think he’s overpayed.
by mikegrand15 on Jul 10, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nicholas Batum is a pretty prospect
it might have been more that they knew Outlaw wasn’t part of their long-term plans so there was no reason to play him over someone who was.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
pretty good prospect*
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
It's not exactly complaining over nothing.
These moves do seem to pretty much suck.
Hope I am wrong and I will then give management its due.
Anybody else surprised that the best player available this off-season is still on the market?
The Nets can’t let this opportunity pass, it doesn’t matter how much money it takes Proky has to get this done. This isn’t the Rat, the Nets have an owner willing to exceed the luxury tax. The Nets have to throw a max deal at the GOAT, MJ, the closer, the one and only — Mike James.
Mike James: “You miss 100% of the shots you take”
Better than MLK’s speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXwkkZyi9k
Think about the team chemistry MJ will bring to this team. He probably has the highest ball-IQ in the league, the Nets can’t let this slip away. Sign the GOAT.
by NBRITM on Jul 10, 2010 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Actually
That’s a line from Degrassi. It is a Gretzky line, but Jermain Brooks, father of Jimmy Brooks, says ’’What’d I tell you, son?‘’, Jimmy: ’’You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. It’s a Gretzky line’’. That’s where I first heard that line.
Except, that line doesn't measure up to the genius of MJ's line...
Notice he didn’t say you miss 100% of the shots you DON’T take, he simple said you miss 100% of the shots you take. Brilliant.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
thats NY basketball
"We’re the new Nets. We’re leaving the old behind and we’re in with the new. Hopefully LeBron is going to be a part of that."
-Coach Avery Johnson.
wtf?
Omg – this is getting more depressing by the day. More garbage…
by Drazen Petrovic on Jul 10, 2010 11:36 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I complain about everything
but I don’t see how this deal is that bad. It’s likely he’ll be, at worst, a Josh Boone clone.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
yeah but if we retained him
he’d be making 2.9. And I suppose they could argue Petro has some potential left, though Boone’s only like a year older.
to me most likely case scenario it’s a lateral move.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
he's already a josh boone clone
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
that's because they had nene and k-mart and bird man
Boone played more because we were desperate than because of him being much more talented.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
And we have Lopez, Favors and Humph who are all better then Petro plus hopefully another PF
He’ll be competing for garbage time minutes with Zoubek if we keep him.
Anderson had an off-year
if he had deserved minutes he could have carved out a regular role. He didn’t
how is his shot?
can he spot up from 10 ft and hit a jumpshot? he looks athletic enough that he should be able to do that. I haven’t seen much of him but from the mix someone posted, i would hope he can be a mikki moore type clone
Displays a decent jumper for a player his size, but tends to fall in love with it.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Johan-Petro-45/#ixzz0tIKSfetc
http://www.draftexpress.com
AHHH SO HE'S A CHUCKER
i changed my mind I want Boone back. Nothing makes me angrier than big man who continually throw up absurd shots from anywhere on the court.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic...
It’s kind of hard to tell by text lol…
But let’s assume you’re not. Petro attempted 2.8 shots per game last season @ 53.5%. JB: 3.5 @ 52.5%
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
Really Gina, Boone?
We know all about Boone. he can’t play in the end of a close game because he is one of the worst foul shooters in history.
I rooted hard for him but he never got better.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the equivalent of signing Zoubek.
Just filling roster space basically, he’ll get as many minutes as Battie did last year. I would have kept Boone personally.
He was the Nuggets’ third stringer.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
He had chance after chance with
Robert Swift’s injuries to do something and never made an impact in Seattle. Just another wayward athlete that is not a basketball player bouncing from one team to another
He hasn’t improved at all since he entered the league. This isn’t the case of someone like Marcin Gortat. Gortat makes an impact in his limited time and therefore he carved out a role. If someone can do that behind Dwight Howard, there is no reason to think that a player deserving a minutes wouldn’t have found a niche after 5 years.
Karl never played him..
He LOVES to use small rotations and Petro unfortunately was not in it.
Kmart/Nene/Bird man.
" I'm really excited to take the worst team in the league and turn it to be the best in the league." --Mikhail Prokhorov.
Bosh.......
with the Drive…BLOCKED BY PETRO…….Loose Ball picked up by SCOLA…….Long pass downcourt to HARRIS for the Lay Up and One……..The NETS by 18 with two minutes to go……..
If the Nets are up 18 on Miami
You know who will be looking for the 1st exit out of South Beach.
no official word yet but we believe so
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
houston said they would match
any offer
by ILikeSports on Jul 10, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
How happy can Miami fans be really? LBJ, Wade, and Bosh all have opt outs after 4 years. That is suuuuch a show of loyalty on their part *sarcarsm. How confident can you feel knowing your main guys know no loyalty and have no remorse or second thoughts about leaving for greener pastures?
muwu
You are aware of why Bron put that opt-out in his contract, and where he plans to go?
i hope he goes back to cleveland
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Me too
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No way he goes back to Cleveland. I don't know if the Heat can even play in Cleveland, they'll have to hire a whole load of security staff
It’s gonna be venomous hate that’ll be waiting for him in Cleveland. Vince in Toronto ain’t got nothing on that
took VC years to get used to it
Finally he got cool and started to delight in twisting toronto noses. Will it take Bron less time…or more?
Same reason they put it in the previous one
They don’t like commitment.
Contrast that with Kevin Durant, who didn’t ask for an opt out clause because he liked the commitment that OKC had towards him.
Geez, a 21 year old kid is 10 times more mature than the three of them combined
this these guys have been coddled beyond comprehension
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
bunch of big babies
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree 100 percent
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
demens
If Bron and Bosh are so committed to Miami, why have opt-outs? I hate to re-hash it, but he’s looking at Brooklyn.
Yes they are coming to Brookyn and will win 15 titles for the Dogers
Yankees suck
by demens on Jul 10, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
muwu
If you don’t think he’s looking at Brooklyn, well…………………….plus, if we have CP3………………..
exactly
it’s the same reason he had the opt out clause in Cleveland. Though I imagine Riley is smart enough to not give him and his idiot friends free reign like Gilbert did.
If he does though I lobby for some drunken tirades by Riley when he walks.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Gina
If he came to Brooklyn, your reaction towards him is…………..?
He'd help our team, but I hate him personally. I like LeBron the player, I loathe with a vengeance LeBron the person
He referred to himself in third person around 5 times. He made God references to himself. He is beyond narcissitic
This
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
This..
we don't light the stars, we simply fade with them..
by silenthero07 on Jul 10, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
LUPO,I understand
a lot of players have opt out clauses, If its all part of his grand plan , well then talk about it when he opts out. I thought we put a squash on the lebron talk anyway.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
BL3ACH
Again, muwu brought up the opt-outs. That’s why I brought it up. On another note, kudos to Nolan Ryan for pulling a fast one on the Yankees for Cliff Lee.
NO BROOKLYN
LeBenedict can go where ever he wants. I would rather find a different way to build a team.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
dmitchell
You may feel that way, and I certainly don’t blame you if you do, but management won’t see it that way. They get a 2nd chance, they’ll siesta him in Miami if they have to.
this
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I know you love him but I no longer do
great player, human phony
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe it's strategic
One interesting aspect of this whole fiasco is how teams tore themselves apart to get cap space for 2010 during the last 2 seasons. This led to weaker teams, making it easier for Cleveland to succeed. So maybe they think if they do this bull all over again, drop a few lines about being interested in playing elsewhere, then everyone will go crazy again in 2 years and it will be easier for Miami to win now
Except Wade will be too old then, and LeBron and Bosh will be 29 or 30
There should certainly be less hubbub
The Global plan ;-)
both of his fans are with the Nets now
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
His parents?
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
no one of his parents wasn't a fan ;-)
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
We already do
Prokhorov gets major press in France, probably because of the who Hooker thing and then mocking the French in the media.
Not sure their fans though, but they are at least paying attention.
Underrated reason for this signing, probably the main reason we have him on
More international players the better
Dwyane Wade alley oop to James... What?? That's Damion??? Long pass downcourt to Favors with Bosh waiting. Favors takes off and stuffs Bosh with a thunderous two handed jam as the fans in Newark chant "LBJ SUCKS!"
by TinySarabia on Jul 10, 2010 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Once Favors dunks on Bosh, you know who will be saying, ‘’I came down here to play with this softie?’’.
more like d-wades missed his 8th game in a row with beasley
and lebron is ready to assassinate chalmers.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
with beasley
should be with an injury
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Ok, without Scola how many wins next year?
I say 30 at best
seriously
if we win 30 games i’ll throw confetti
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Really?
Just 30 wins and you will be happy? I think Proky would be quite upset.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
well tbh
i’d rather be picking in the top 4 again
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Adjustment of expectations
What do you expect us to be a 50 win team with our roster? Have reasonable expectations
I wonder how many we'd have to win
to get Johnson a coach of the year nod, or strong consideration.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
w/o Scola 30 is a good guess.
With Scola and Farmar 43.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
If Prokhorov brought the best player in Russia over(not that I know who it is), what would you guys’ reaction be?
Who cares. if he is a great player, then welcome to the party pal.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
You know what...I would root for him but I have no idea who that would be.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody
Molgovov? is signed for another year. You need to wait a year and there is not a great deal of talent in Russia.
Honestly,
I would be happy if we gave Wash our second round pick, maybe an additional 2nd for Yi
One year left, could be good addition off the bench, and “keep us global” and would be more than willing to step over for Favors.
I also think there is some upside there and we would have right to match next year. I know he doesn’t play Defense and Avery would go nuts.
Seriously…Would you do it?
No. He’s had long enough to prove he knows how to play basketball, and he hasn’t. He just doesn’t understand the game.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
this
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Yi! Gads
no more Yi
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
So Gina am I reading this right? You don't think the Nets will be NBA chaps this coming season?
Shocker ;-)
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
champs*
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I would give Wash another 2nd round pick just to keep Yi there
Didn’t you have enough, you masochists?!
by Belarus4life on Jul 10, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Idk maybe I am putting to much value on these picks, but to me 2 second round picks seems steep
Since the face been revealed the game got real
gsloots
You must be in a real state of depression if you want Yi back.
I heard that Jay is going to be more active in the basketball operations of this team. I kid you not. A FanPost will be up about it shortly.
demens
I’m not kidding. I have a Nets website that says that. He even spoke to Prokhorov about it.
Wow
I just can’t let go. I just have a feeling that the ultimate kick in the pants is going to be Yi breaking out this year and finally putting it all together.
It’s not logical, but I’m losing it and yes I am depressed. I have kept my head up until we lost T. Thomas. (tearing) I just can’t take the losing anymore.
Does this mean
you created your own Nets website and wrote that on it?
by Keith Van Bread on Jul 10, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeez..
Was Robert Swift not available?
by BubbaMcBubba on Jul 10, 2010 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No, he's busy
Playing the lead role in ‘Ronald McDonald the Musical’.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
Perplexed
I dont understand deals like this to Petro. 3 million a year, we could get the same from Boone for 1 million a year. Would have rather added a couple million a year to Morrow’s offer sheet, increase our chances of Golden State not matching.
I like Morrow
Plus, him and Favors went to the same college. Not there at the same time, though.
I wouldn't be surprised
If those who suggest otherwise have NEVER seen Petro play. Seriously, that’s probably a realistic assumption.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
demens
Just pointing it out. I know where virtually every player went to college. I’m scary like that.
Anyone can know where every player went to college
It’s called google
by muwu on Jul 10, 2010 2:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Except his upside was always more of a high side.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
prison league
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Is he remaking the Longest Yard only BBall this time?
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
He played in Puerto Rico most recently and I think the Bucks signed him to the S.L. squad… most likely for a pre-game snack for Tiny Gallon.
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
Sean Williams problems weren't a lack of talent
he was done in by his off-court issues.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
We are....The Hornets not so much
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The deal was never in talks
And you’re not getting Paul for Harris. Think Lopez. AND Favors. Maybe more
there's really no reason to think
any deal for Paul wuold ever involve Harris. The Hornets have zero reason to do it if that’s the case. Since they’d be getting a massive downgrade for less than like 6 million in salary relief, unless we just took back all their bad contracts too.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Gina
I think we should hire you to be the Nets capologist, or something, cause you seem to know a lot.
Doesn't take a capologist
Just takes actual thought and research and knowledge before pressing that post button. The information is all out there. Shouldn’t be such a challenge to go be informed
No to CP3, let's just lay it to rest for now
He has an opt out in two years. Think about it then or at the trade deadline next year a lot can change between now and then.
after two years
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Were we ever doing that deal?
Popeye Jones - scaring the children of New Jersey since 2010.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
I think
it was speculation mostly, but im sure they don’t want paul to walk for free.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Look at it this way: Now NY-NJ is the only major sports metropolis with players named Johan in both baseball and basketball.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-wizards-wall
Wall injured his groin in his first practice… Curse of Thorn??
He burnt us
If I’m not mistaken, Petro burnt us in one game against Thunder scoring closer to 20 points. We are assembling young athletic D guys who fits AAvery’s system.
so many people repeat what people have already said 100 times
makes reading the threads difficult
I love the Nets...too bad they don't love me...
Nets=Thunder of the East
I believe we are going to suprise alot of people this yr like the thunder did last season
They won 20 something gms 2 yrs ago and what did they do in the offseason Kristic Thomas cant remember who else my point is they did go out and get the best out there they got guys can contribute and what did they do win 50something games
Look at the nets we have alot of nice players Twill Lee Harris KingJames Favors Lopez and what are we doing adding Nice talent around those guys who were around Harris Lee Twill and Lopez last season simmons hayes boone quinn dooling like give me a break
With a Great coaching Staff and With FA in outlaw Morrow Petro and im praying Scola i will not be suprise if we win 45 gms
Harris/?
Lee/Williams/Morrow
Outlaw/KingJames
Scola?/Favors/Humps
Lopez/Petro
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
And where is their MVP Durant? Dare I ask?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I would say we are a year away from surprising the league
I hate to say it, but I think we are lottery bound again. Next year we are the young upstarts in the playoffs and we’ll be ready to take off when we hit Brooklyn. I think this was the backup plan if we didn’t get LeBron all along.
And where is their Durant?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
We got Lopez, Last time i checked you win with a Big and Legit Scorer Why didnt the thunder beat the lakers THEY HAD NO BIG
Your going to tell me Kingjames or Harris or evan Twill cant lead the way and Score 20+ points every night like dont get me wrong there not Durant but with a Legit Center and Good Shooters around him we can be a Legit team for a 7th or 8th seed and do some damage against the heat and go to gm 7 and lose ill accept that
Listen ive been saying for a couple of days and ill continue saying it AVERY JOHNSON is going to make a difference and if he doesnt ill come on here and say i was wrong
Whats Williams so far biggest strength driving down the line if he can do that he can put up 20 puts like rose can
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
by Wall2KingJames on Jul 10, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You need both
Lopez by himself isn’t going to do it. It’s the same reason why when we had VC and Kidd we still needed the big.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
maybe avery is trying to rebuild his old spurs
with Lopez as DRobinson and Favors as Duncan – surrounded by shooters and slashers and a vet PG(Harris as Avery Johnson)
This is my best hope
Why didn’t the Magic beat the Celtics. The Celtics had no “Big and Legit Scorer”.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
then what do we need?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
we don't have Durant
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
If Favors is for real
than we have one of the most impressive low post combinations in the NBA. I think a great deal depends on Favors. I know some are not sold but I have liked him for awhile so I am pretty excited. I do think that we need to find another star to pair with those two somewhere along the line, that is why we need to keep looking to build and collect assets.
The one things I have to say is that there is a different feel to the offseason this year. I feel like last year we were still tearing down the Nets. Thorn is TRYING to put pieces around the core and build a team structure. Last year was an organized debacle – poor Lawrence Frank
“post combinations” do not win championships. Special players do.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I'm trying to say that Favors will be a star, but I'm afraid to say it.
He could also be the piece that gets us one. Young bigs with upside do have some trade value. Al Jefferson brought back Garnett.
He can be a star
but it still won’t be enough without a special wing/guard player. And right now we don’t have that.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
+1
Unless Outlaw really grows into his own. He had some very good late game presence early on.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I was a big fan of Outlaw back in 06/07
it’s just hard for me to believe that after 6-7 years in the league a player isn’t basically what he’s going to be.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Alot of those years were very young years and kinda don’t count. And when you get locked into an organization for a long time you get pigeon-holed. I’m not saying that the guy is due to breakout, but he definitely had or has serious skills and a silky stroke.
I’m saying that he may be the Nets big chance, the only thing that opens the door for them. He is their potential. Maybe not a good bet, but they didn’t have much choice.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, maybe i’m a little to positive in my views, but T-Will has the potential to be a big time wing player in the future. He needs to be a smarter with the ball, but the talent/athleticism/body control is there. He was pretty good the last 2 months of the season.
he has the potential to be a guy like AI-2
a great number 2 guy, but not someone who you build around.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I’m afraid to say it as well. One sees glimpses, but really you have to strain your eyes. It looks like 10% chance right now.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I will take Petro over Boone...
Based strictly on athleticism. At leats Petro wont have his dunks blocked by the rim like I have seen happen to Boone many times.
There aren’t many free-agent power forwards remaining, but the Nets continue to have talks with Henry Thomas, the agent for Udonis Haslem. If they cannot meet his price, there are fours that might merit short-term money (Al Harrington, Leon Powe, Matt Bonner, Craig Smith, Brian Cardinal, Ike Diogu, Kurt Thomas, Louis Amundson), but the Nets are looking for someone who can start until Derrick Favors grows into the job.
Newark Star-Ledger
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Please. Get Haslem. Overpay a little if you have to.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just not sure that he is even available. I have a dirty feeling that Haslem has been in the Miami plans from the very beginning, and that this whole big three thing did not go down without him in mind. You might REALLY have to overpay, which would be hard.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Give him 3 yrs 40 million
I doubt Miami gets close to this. I don’t mind overpaying in the short-term.
He would jump for that I think.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
I expect that Miami has figured out a way to try to retain him as well, but their options are limited and he doesn’t seem to want to take a paycut.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Last I read on a heat siite is that somehow they can offer him a backloaded contract that begins at the min. The bad part is that if he gets injured, he loses it all.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
they have 8 million in cap room apparently
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I can’t track that number down. Saw it last night. They have been cooking the books with brilliance.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it the 5 mill saved on the Beasley trade plus the mid-level exemption that get from the sign and trade from Lebron?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
They don't
have that much money… I think the Nets should figure out how much the HEAT have, and offer an extra 1.5 a year for 3 or with a team option for 4th, and tell he has an hour to take it or leave it, period. If he passes, later gator!! NO MLE, they were under cap, they don’t have one, and it looks like they are signing Miller to a 5 / 25-30 deal, so they are very limited.
They are negotiating sign and trades for both Bosh and Lebron
in order to get the MLE. They will have a MLE
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU CAN'T GET
an MLE if you started below the CAP… They are ONLY for teams that are OVER the cap… Not sure where you’re getting this information, but I am 99.9% sure this is how it works.
Mid-level exception
Once a year, teams are allowed to sign a player to a contract equal to the average NBA salary, even if the team is over the salary cap already, or if the signing would put them over the cap. This is known as the Mid-level exception (MLE). The MLE may be used on an individual free agent or split among multiple free agents, and is available to any team that exceeds the salary cap at the beginning of the offseason.
I’m getting this from:
The latest detail involves the Heat acquiring Chris Bosh and Lebron James via sign-and-trades with Toronto and Cleveland, respectively. Not only does it give Bosh and James an extra sixth year on their deals, but it also will allow Miami to splurge on many of their own free agents.
Because they acquired James and Bosh in sign-and-trade deals, the Heat’s current free agents (like Udonis Haslem) can be re-signed regardless of cap space because they have Bird Rights (Check out the link at the end of the article for clarification).
Once a team dips into its cap room for an outside free agent, Bird Rights would no longer be in play. Haslem is easily the top priority now, with Dorell Wright, Quentin Richardson, and Joel Anthony also as options.
Now they can give Haslem his worth, which obviously strengthens the odds of his return.
Miller can still be signed for the mid-level exception, which is similar to the deal he covets ($5-6 million a year).
In the sign-and-trade involving Bosh, Miami sent Toronto their 2011 first-round pick and sent back the first-round pick that the Raptors had sent Miami in the Jermaine O’Neal trade.
In the sign-and-trade involving James, Miami will send Cleveland two first-round picks and two second-round picks. The deal has been tentatively agreed upon and should be announced in the coming days.
If you’re wondering why the Cavalier’s owner, Dan Gilbert, would want to do anything to help Miami at this point, it’s because at the end of the day, this is a business. Losing James for nothing would be bad business for his team and and his fans.
James and Bosh both signed six-year, $110 million deals with starting salaries set at $14.5 million, while Wade signed a six-year, $107 million deal with a starting salary of $14.2 million.
Each took around $15 million less overall, as a maximum contract would have a starting salary of $16.6 million. All three have ETO’s after year four, meaning they can choose to opt out after 2013-14.
Recap : If all goes according to plan, and it is certainly looking promising, this is what your Miami Heat roster should look like after these moves get done:
Starters : Mario Chalmers, Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Chris Bosh, Joel Anthony
Bench : Udonis Haslem, Mike Miller, Jarvis Varnardo, Dexter Pittman, Desean Butler, Patrick Beverley
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It explicitly says that Miller can sign for the mid level.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I get the bird rights...
But the MLE goes against what the league rules state above which I posted directly from the NBA collective bargining agreement:
MLE is available to any team that exceeds the salary cap at the beginning of the offseason…
Clearly the HEAT had not exceeded the salary cap when the off season started, so I am not sure why they get a waiver on this…
The only thing I can think of is that July 8 was the first day of the official offseason, since its the first day that players could be signed, and that by doing S&T those players counted against the cap going in…. But that doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Interesting, thanks for the post.
Yes I was thinking about that too.
I can’t make definitive sense of it, but the guy seems to know what is happening.
I also read a reporter tweet that put the Heat cap space at 8 mill, which makes no sense.
And an AP report that the Heat can offer Fisher 4.5 million.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHA!!
If this is true, that is unreal, and clearly the HEAT had a very clear plan in place for how all of this would shake out… We’ll see, I guess…
I still agree though, by NBA rule it seems that if you are under the cap at midnight July 8 you cannot have a midlevel. Not sure how they are swinging this.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
So, as you read it it, does it mean that they can pay Haslem under Bird Rights FIRST, and then sign Miller and others?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I really not sure...
but I believe they have to first sign outside players first…
But this guy writes:
Once a team dips into its cap room for an outside free agent, Bird Rights would no longer be in play.
That would mean that there are no bird rights for Haslem.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Just read up on it. It seems that the Heat are waiting to sign Haslem before they do the S&Ts with Bosh and Lebron
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
That's impossible
They all signed their agreements yesterday, by all, I mean Wade, LBJ and Bosh..
MIAMI DOES NOT HAVE THE MLE
All these people talking about it are clueless. If they were never under the cap they would not have been able to trade pick for Lebum.
What they DO have is close to NINE (i think its 8.6) mill in cap because of trading Beasley and the bi 3 taking pay cuts. Minus roughly 5 for Miller leave about 4 for Haslem, and i can see him taking it.
I dont see this really being all that helpful to them however since niether Haslem nor Bosh are centers.
I tell you all why the Nets start signing some mediocre players...
because Bulls, Nets, Knicks, and Cavs are going avoid the Heat to sign some players to their rosters ! And that equals we diminish Heat’s depth !
What clearly seems to be happening here
is that the Nets are improving themselves incrementally. The idea of making a spectacular turnaround by bringing in LBJ and another max free agent was always a long-shot at best and now can be seen to have been a pipe dream. But they still need to bring in a proven PF to have a respectable front court, and a least one sharp-shooter who can consistently make jump shots.
Even with those additions, though, it’s pretty hard to see this team making the playoffs next year. Their best hope would seem to be to go from being an absolute NBA joke to a scrappy, competitive team that is a tough out and can maybe break into the 30-win column. In order to become a truly relevant contender they will then need to bring in or develop a transcendent JKidd-type of leader who makes everyone around him better, and at least one top-flight running mate.
what teams in the history of the league have you seen incrementally improve until they win a championship?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The Chicago Bulls?
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
This year?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
No, starting from scratch and improving a little bit at a time
That’s what they did with Jordan. Of course, we don’t have a Jordan, but we have to stay the course until we draft or trade for a star.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but if we don't suck
we can’t draft a Jordan
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
or at least it lowers our chances immensely
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Yes. Its the catch 22. That’s why the Celts and the Spurs had their dynasties. Sucked enough to get Bird and Duncan. Sigh.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to remind everyone...
The Bulls had like 10 top 10 picks in the last 10 years. Just saying, sometimes it takes time to win
And the Bulls have won a championship lately?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The NBA is littered with teams that are “fairly close to being a top three conference team”. That’s the whole point. If you don’t have a dominant player you end up like the Hawks. Good regular season, maybe an upset or two in the PFs, but no ring. Indiana in the past was like that.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You gotta be in it to win it
The Pistons were knocking on the door and Wallace became available. You build around a core. Lopez and Favors are the core right now. They are young, it will take time.
detroit is pretty much the only example of it working
out like that though.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The Lakers were knocking on the door
before they lucked out and got Gasol.
the lakers had kobe
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
no one said he could
the point is you need a game changer like him to win in general. Detroit is the only example of it not happening. They wouldn’t win it without Gasol or without Kobe. But you have to have both, and the guys like Kobe are much harder to acquire.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Who did the Spurs have?
Duncan? Out of our two low post guys one may be a star.
Neither projects to be
the type of player Duncan is on both sides of the court.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
the point is
and kobe isn’t going to come knocking on any doors.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
and that knocking on the door with a game
changer like Kobe, or Lebron or Durant or Wade, is different than knocking on the door without one and no realistic way of landing one.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
yeah
yeah, but for most of their picks, a game changer was available. They just repeatedly got it wrong.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
We had game changers available too...
when we drafted Wright, SWAT, etc. The draft is a crapshoot. Which is why winning through the draft takes time and luck. Its clear that has become our de facto strategy. Lets embrace it.
What game changers?
Granger? He’s not a game changer. You have to pick in the top five to get a game changer unless you get really lucky and draft a project or a European that nobody knows about, but scouting is much better now and the chances of getting that lucky are slim.
this
what game changer went after Williams?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I don't understand how you can say Chi got it wrong
Last I checked, they were the ones who were able to attract a top tier FA with their DRAFT PICKS, not us. Deng, Rose, Noah, Gibson, all draft picks.
huh when did I say Chi got it wrong with Rose?
they got it wrong with Thomas, which was the only other time as far as I can tell they were in the top 3. Gibson wasn’t a top ten pick so I’m not sure what he has to do with anything, they didn’t draft Deng. And most of their top picks were in the bottom of the lottery.
so what exactly is it you’re trying to say? Most of those players you named were players picked in the top ten in the last ten years. Which has nothing to do with anything we were saying.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The bulls really didn't miss that much either
2000 – they took Brand, good pick, but traded him
2001 – Chandler and Curry, bad draft but nobody that good came out, maybe Wallace at the 25th pick
2002 – Jay William who got in a tragic car accident, nobody that good after him
2003 – Hinrich, missed Wade by two picks and wanted to take him
2004 – Deng and Gordon, decent picks missed on maybe J. Smith
2005 – no pick
2006 T. Thomas, bad pick missed Gay, Roy, and trade Aldridge
2007 – Noah, good pick
2008 – Rose good pick
in 2001 they missed on Gasol (3)
in 2002 the missed on Stoudemire (9)
in 2003 there is no telling who they missed, they could have traded up a few picks and got a Bosh or Mellow.
in 2006 they missed on Brandon Roy (6)
The point isn’t that they drafted badly, they didn’t. The point is that game changers and MVP candidates are there, but you can seriously miss them.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
before that they had Jordan. Where is the Nets Jordan?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
which is why we need to make sure we suck enough
to get a chance to draft a Jordan.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
see the vision?
It’s better than pipe dreaming. Stock up on talented young players, mix them with vets, and see what happens. It’s better than running out making dumb moves to stay in the middle of the pack in the same conference as the Heat.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we've all learned....
….is that we have stop thinking about all of these outside guys unless something falls in our favor clearly, and just worry about building from within. We have the money to pay so we just have to be smart. Signing young guys that can compliment what we already have, while still having assets to make a big move if necessary, is better than just sitting around and doing nothing. No one wants to come here. We smell awful. So we can’t expect to land the big fish unless we start building ourselves up and out of the mediocrity.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that window has closed. That was THIS season. Now the salaries will start piling up, and so will the wins.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
awesome
40 win seasons here we come
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
I know.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Since 99.9 % (im 1% who think they will make the playoffs)
dont think were making the playoffs Are we going to be worst then Wiz Sixers Raptors teams just curious?
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
by Wall2KingJames on Jul 10, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just curious
How many wins did you think NJ was going to have last year, at this time?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Aleast 25-30 wins
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
by Wall2KingJames on Jul 10, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
So, we’ll probably be about 10 wins short of the playoffs.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me Ask you IF we got john wall do we make the playoffs with him
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
by Wall2KingJames on Jul 10, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that's the idea
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
There almost is not other path. You just have to hope that you got lucky with potential. That Favors explodes into Amare. That Outlaw grows into Prince.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The only hopes that we have for Outlaw....
….is that he can be a contributor. He’s not a long term soiution, but a roleplaying piece to the puzzle.
Lets see what steps Lopez, Williams, Harris, and Lee takes this season. With better players on the roster now, they can improve.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree
but you would have to think that the Nets see upside if they gave him five years. You don’t give five years to a stopgap.
I don't question signing him
I question the logic behind giving him 5 years.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
from the moves they're making it's what it sounds like
they plan on spending 22 million of the 32 million. And if we sign Scola, which I don’t think we will but it’s clearly part of their current plan, just like chasing Boozer was, I don’t see how it’s not their plan.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
we need a stop gap at PF for the short term
that’s why i’d rather if we do overpay, it would only be for a short time.
We have to build some steam here, and then we can worry about making big moves to get over the 45 game hump. Something will come up. But I’d rather we strengthen what we have here.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah that was their plan with RJ,VC etc
that’s the problem, how many teams have actually been able to acquire a player who gets them over that hump? The type of player we need likely isn’t going to be acquirable, especially if we tie up a lot of cap room.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
True. Its
1. Potential of players you already had.
2. A very well crafted trade.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Every team that wins a title
has built up to it. The trick seems to be to have a core in place that with the right addition can take the next step. The Boston Celtics never won a championship until they drafted Bill Russell, and then they were a dynasty. Same thing with the Larry Bird Celtics and the Magic-Kareem Lakers—Magic put them over the top. Same thing with the Bulls after adding Scottie Pippen and with the Detroit Pistons after trading for Rasheed Wallace, as well as with the last two Laker title teams after trading for Pau Gasol.
exactly
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
the lakers already had kobe
and they didn’t really build up, they built down from a team that was already championship caliber.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
And the Bulls already had MJ
that’s the problem, acquring Pippen is easy, we have 10 pippens, we don’t have one MJ.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Ten Pippens could do it!
Isn’t he in the Hall of Fame and voted one of the 50 top players of all time? :-)
10 Pippens?
LOL.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
more like 3 Horace Grants, and 2 Tony Kukocs and a Steve Kerr
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
well it was hyperbole but my point was more that
getting pippen and getting jordan aren’t the same thing
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Trust me...we don't have 10 Pippens ;-)
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Um. Magic put the Lakers over the top, but they already had possibly the greatest center to play the game (or top 4 at least). Where is that guy on the Nets?
On all these teams there were already HoF players in place. Where are those players on the Nets?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
being honest
how many years do you really expect to have top 5 picks in a row? this team is not in a position where it can afford to be a bottom feeder for 10 years. We are about to move. Keep that in mind. I think that we’ve done very well in the last three drafts, so we’ll see what happens.
I understand everyone’s point that improving could backfire on us but there are also teams that have been in the lottery for what seems like ages now and they don’t get anywhere either.
We have talent here, we just need to do what we can do to make them better and be able to be flexible enough to swing the right deal.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
OKC moved
when they had 3 in a row.
We’ve only had a top 5 pick once. 1-2 more isn’t that unrealistic. In fact I’d be willing to bed a hyped up top 3 pick right before the move to Brooklyn would bring more bandwagon fans than a 45 win team.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
by Gina on Jul 10, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
and another model for getting to the top would be the Pistons, who drafted well and then picked up Chauncey Billups, who had bounced around the league, and traded for Rasheed Wallace, a talented head case, and won the title without a superstar.
yeah but that's pretty much the only example of it ever happening
and it only worked one year before falling apart.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Two years, actually
The Pistons took the Spurs to seven games in the 2005 finals in which the Spurs had the home-court advantage. And if a team without superstars can win the title once, another team could do it again. But a superstar or two would surely help!
Yeah
and it fell apart because they blew it on one of those top five picks you love so much.
so you agree
if they had gotten a gamechanger like Carmelo it wouldn’t have fallen apart?
And that’s really not true at all anyway, it fell apart because Dumars failed to anticipate holes, hire a competent coach and ever build any depth or find role players.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
as Gina says it was the ONE example in over 50 years of the NBA
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
not really the Mavs built slowly
and they were one call away
they've been one call away
for 5 years. And still haven’t gotten there. They’ve been drastically trying to reshape, rebuild their team practically every year and are no closer than they were 5 years ago.
Which is just more to the point.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
And the BIG thing that has held the Mavs back is quite simple. Dirk simply is not THAT guy. Cuban is obsessed with getting Paul, because he knows that special players make the difference.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
This is an alright signing
We needed a back up C. I’m a bit iffy on the Outlaw signing, but I know that he can play and for now having Outlaw/James at the 3 could turn out to be better than we expect.
Lopez/Petro/Zoubek
____/Favors/Hump
Outlaw/James
Lee/Morrow
Harris/Williams/_______
At this point, we have no choice but to overpay for Scola or Haslem, but the deal cannot be anything longer than 3 seasons.
I like the direction we’re going in. We defenitely will be able to score now with 4 shooters(as long as the morrow deal goes through) to give our main three guys room to operate. Harris should see an increase in his overall numbers, as well as Brook points wise, lets hope his rebounding gets to at least 9-10 per.
If Avery is the defacto GM for now, then he’s shaping his team up to at least be competitive, with the landscape in the NBA having changed, we have to stay the course of grooming players while developing an identity for now and the future. We have size, speed, athleticsm, defense, and shooting now. If we can get another top 10 pick, cool, but we need to be on target the next two seasons in the draft, or attempt to trade for a star player. I see a bottom of 21 wins worst case scenario. Mid 30’s at best. I’d fine with that.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
I agree, we are kinda stuck into overpaying for a PF.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
as long as it's a three year deal, fine
We can afford to do that. If a trade comes along, we do have talent to give in return, just has to an offer we can’t refuse.
It is what it is my bros. I think we’ll be alright this year though, nothing to get excited about, but something to watch at least.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
For those who want to start Favors and take their lumps you have to remember that he looked tired after playing five minute quarters in the development league. He will look horrible if he has to play major minutes over an 82 game season and we will lose a lot of games.
yes
he’s a work in progress. Throwing him into the water at this point is foolish, let him come off of the bench and grow into his game.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Nets Fan Agony
After the horrendous 12-70 season, I thought that sky was the limit. Now, after losing out on John Wall, Lebron James, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer.. I am left with Johan Petro. Is this real? Can someone wake me up from this nightmare?
Overpaying Amare
I would do this in a heartbeat. I’d rather have Amare plus the knee risk for 5 years 100 mill than these scrubs.
why
so we can win 40 games and get swept out of the first round the next 3 years?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Because he is a difference maker.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If he was 23 maybe
but now we’d get two seasons of his prime before he starts declining, and the rest of the team likely wouldn’t be good enough to take advantage of his prime anyway. Do you really think that everything else left the same on this team if we just placed in Ama’re we suddenly going from a 20-30 win team to a 50+ win team? Cause that’s the only way the investment would make sense.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Ok, about the investment
Would you rather have Morrow, Petro, and Outlaw
OR
Amare Stoudemire?
Come on now.
Interesting point.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not about the big name
We have to be smart. We can’t just sign out max deals to guys set to decline, while we are trying to climb up the ladder. As long as we still leave ourselves some wiggle room, its better to develop the talent we have, add more within the next two years, and be a bit more patient. The smarter teams that have young talent and assets are going to be the ones that are going to catch the Heat within three years, not the ones who are crippling their cap, trying to hang with the Lakers and Heat.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, it is cutting it very close. The the other road is just the road to 45 win seasons, or second round exits at most.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Wall was a killer. He would have had a serious impact on the feel of this season. Don’t think Favors is ready to do that.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That may be better though
Think about Lebron, he was so good so fast that the Cavs had unrealistic expectations and lost patience, which put them in a horrible position. Why do you think the Thunder didn’t go out and sign Amare? Think about it.
Uh, Lebron took a nobody team to the finals. He made the franchise.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
wait til you see the career Wall is going to have.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I could say the same about Favors
Not saying he’s going to be better than Wall, but a scoring PG can be had in every draft. Rose, Evans, Wall, Jennings, etc. Who was the last all-star caliber potential PF to come out? (note: we haven’t seen Griffin play enough in the NBA yet to make a conclusion).
Agree and disagree
Wall is really special, quite possibly the best of the bunch, but Favors could also have a great career. Wall is just closer to making an impact.
Is not that he is a scoring PG, he is a gifted passer and playmaker.
And yes, you can say the same thing about Favors. Who knows Thabeet might come storming back into the league. I give Favors about a 10% chance of being a star, and maybe a 1% chance of being a superstar. With Wall its much more like 50 or 60% of being a star and let’s say 15% chance of being a superstar.
That’s just how I see it. Favors has not impressed on several levels, one of which being his intensity and heart.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
if we had landed Wall
I imagine it would have totally changed the free agent land scape
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Don't Over Pay for Haslem
Target Muprhy
-From NJ
-Expirer
-Have his rights for next summer
-Great shooter and rebounder
-Veteran presence
-Gets us above the minimum salary
-Offers Indy financial relief to sign a PG
Murphy for
Trade Exception
$3m
#2
Are you his cousin or something? Murphy? The word “great” and Murphy don’t go together.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i also don't get why players being from nj/ny matter?
I hear mets fans claim the same thing all the time. That because a player is from NY it somehow makes him better.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
How about some Brooklyn guys then.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah probably for some..
but really, just get good payers and win..pride will come from that. I could care less if the guy is from Mars (even though I am a Jersey guy and feel that local pride too – I like geography – I love winning better).
Pacers are going to want more than that...
But if we get Morrow, we could offer:
Courtney Lee
Hump
2nd Round Pick
Trade Exception
This would be a good deal for both teams. This or a similar trade for AK would be ideal.
Murphy and AK are not worth that
Not even close. They are 30 and 29 and will be a FA next summer. The tremendous and instant salary cap relief we could give them should be more than enough. If they ask for anything like what you suggested, then I’m not interesed.
...what for Troy Murphy?
why is everyone determined to give assets away?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
You have to give something to get something
The Pacers have no reason to give him away for free, as he’s a very good player and will come off the cap at the end of the season.
We would have his bird rights and could resign him to come off the bench at the 3 and 4 once Favors is ready to start. He has 2 big-time NBA skills (top rebounder and 3 point shooter) which is more than most of our players have.
Murphy isn't something
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
we need to hold on to the assets for the right deal
Murphy, is not that deal.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to respectfully disagree
Murphy was 7th in the league in rebounding (10.2 a game), 10th in the league in double doubles, and shot 38% from 3 point range. IMO, he’s certainly worth giving up Courtney Lee – who is an okay starting SG/good rotation player and a 2nd round pick for.
he's a 30 year old with an expensive expiring contract
he’s a solid role player on the downside of his career. He’s not worth more than a 2nd round pick.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Pacers will get a late 1st round pick from a contender at the trade deadline
If they want it. Like the Wizards did for Jameson and he wasn’t even expiring.
Yeah but Lebron was
and the cavs were desperate to keep him.
Plus that’s likely a bottom first round pick, which is practically a second rounder.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Watching Cavs on NBATV
How do you think Byron Scott feels now, he took a chance and now his career will suffer. Unless he gets lucky and bolts for the Lakers next year.
They have a decent team (better than the Nets), and are likely to pick up someone like Jefferson. May even make the playoffs.
I would love to see the 1-8 seed game Cleavland Miami.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
other than Miami fans, who wouldn't be rooting for Cleveland
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I had high expectations with the team last year but obviously they fail me.
This year winning 20-30 games will be alright for me.. and if they make it to the Playoffs that would be a bonus.
we don't light the stars, we simply fade with them..
Facts that Coaches mean something
i was on google to see what the cavs and magic did the season they drafted 1st pick of course we had the 3rd pick but thats a high pick
Cavs won 35 gms
Magic won 36 gms
They had no talent on the roster they were relying on Howard and James
But the key was the coach howard was coached by johnny dent i think and paul silas
Like comeon those 2 compared to avery johnson its not even debatable
Also they took 2 season after they drafted James and Howard to start winning look if that happens to us then ill just have to support are team but with this roster ill be shocked if we cant even get to .500 with the east being so weak
also if you dont believe the east is weak then look at this how do we know the bucks are going to do what they did last season remember bogut is coming back from injury
pistons had all this talent and still won 20 something gms and still have that coach
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
what
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
my point is we have avery johnson as the coach with these young talented players why cant we make the playoffs
my other point is if the cavs and magic had a better coach you never know they go .500
"Avery Johnson: Erase to Replace"
Wall2KingJames to JamesSucks
by Wall2KingJames on Jul 10, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you ever looked at the names that win coach of the year.
Not the Phil Jacksons of the world.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Does Anyone Understand
That not every Pickup is going to be an all star? Right now we are trying to fill out a roster and we sign a backup player and everyone freaks. Get over it, Lebron is in Miami. its done. We are focusing on adding depth as well as situational players. Relax
yeah I get that every pick up isn't going to be an all-star
my point is it makes more sense to be bad enough to pick int he top 4 again than try and build a 40-45 win team just to have to blow it up again in 4 to 5 years.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Even with the addition of Scola or Haslem this is not a 45 win team
we just have to maintain some type of flexibility here while improving
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
High draft picks by losing
or picks aquired by trade. D. James might turn into a 20 ppg scorer and if Favors pans out in two years while we get other pieces along the way, it could all gell around the time we move to Brooklyn. Build threw the draft an be patient. Once the roster reaches their potential, if we have cap space, we could add the final piece at that time. That would be my plan.
where is that final piece coming from?
how often does a summer like this happen? once ever, those game changers almost never leave their original teams.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
It's about winning and timing is everything
We were sunk the minute Kidd left cuz we had no shot at being good and had an owner that wanted to sell and wouldn’t spend. Game changers want to go to winners. As Net Income correctly stated we never get a top FA cuz we usually stink. We’re always dressing up a pig. As fans we are not objective (I am as guilty as anyone) and a top FA would never come to a 12-70 team. I personally am nervous about the future cuz there aren’t too many like Thorn who can rip somebody off to put us where we want to be and until we are fairly successful it’s either the draft or a trade in the short term that will help us.
game changers are almost NEVER fa's
this summer was an exception, and shouldn’t be expected to be near the rule. You need to either draft game changers or trade for them.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
especially after the new CBA coming up
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats what I just wrote
A game changer thats a FA whats to go to a winner, even if it’s rare. That was my point. However, unless the rules change it could be the way of the future. If you have the leverage, get options. All three have ETO after 4 years. Thats the new way.
my point is that the chances of getting one in the draft
or through a trade is so much higher than signing one that it’s kind of moot that they prefer winners.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Thats where we disagree
The past supports your argument but the present and future might be different. I think all top players should include an ETO in their contract to stop them from being stuck with a loser for many years. LeBron and Wade are confident so they waited 4 years for their ETO but someone like Lopez who has been with two lottery teams might want an earlier ETO. The New CBA might address that thou.
It is quite likely that the CBA is going to produce less movement, not more.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That what I meant by addressing it
but the players will fight it. They won’t give up their freedom that easily.
the thing is the owners have the hammer this time around, which is why everyone thinks there could be a lockout.
The cap is going to get harder and the players are going to push for higher maxes. The result would likely be that the players would get more $ rather than more move ability.
I can’t see how the owners are going to let premium free agents pit owners against each other, especially after all this James business.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
But at the same tim If favors develops into the kind of player he can be, were going to have an all world Front court, capable of being built around. I already get the impression we are building around Brook which i actually like. And i still think a decent sized trade is coming
exactly
it seems like we’re already writing off the talent that we have already, as if they will not improve in the next 2 years.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jul 10, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
they will improve
but most of them are going to be great role players. We don’t have a wing player/guard who we can write in for 20+ a night, at an efficient rate.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
or any players who ever project to be close to that.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Look in two years we could have an all star center, and budding star in Favors,
cap flexibility, another lottery pick, a two first round picks, and a bunch of young assets in James, TWill, and Lee there is a good chance we can figure out something to do with that. Everyone is so upset but we are loaded with assets. Even the contract help in that they are broken down and offer flexibility. You never know when teams are going to go in firesale mode or how the new CBA is going to change things.
Bottom Line: I like our chances.
I'd like our chances better
with another impact draft pick.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
We might have it, if Favors plays major minutes
I just don’t think next years draft is going to be that hot
really?
with Barnes and Jones at the top?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
if you mean after them I agree
which is kind of my point. I don’t think playing for just top ten picks makes much sense. I mean either being awful another for another top 4 or really making a push to acquire players like Carmelo or Paul.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Definitely Gina
I totally agree with you.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I like barnes not Jones
Nowhere near the depth of the past two years. Is it worth sucking this year for a 25 percent chance at a game changer. We saw how that works out.
Um yes
it’s better than being a permanent 40 win team with no game changer. Either make the push for one in a trade or suck enough to get one in the draft. The middle ground shouldn’t be considered an option because it almost never works.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
AMEN GINA!!
That is the most astute observation I have read on this board since becoming a member.
Shooting for mediocrity only insures a decade of mediocrity.
In this league you are either positioning yourself to add impact players (and succeeding), via the lottery and/or free agency, or you are winning 40 Games and wallowing in mediocrity for what seems like an eternity.
TRANSLATION: HALF-STEPPIN’ is the worse thing you can do in this league
That is the BLUEPRINT FOR MEDIOCRITY
Thorn said
It’s better to stink than to be mediocre.
I have to say Gina
You might be one of the best Basketball analysts I have ever known
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Jul 10, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
What till Harrison Barnes finds that out.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
How did an offseason with 32 million in cap space
… and a slew of elite FA targets turn into Travis Outlaw and Johan (not Drazen) Petro?
I THINK WE NEED A NEW THEME SONG
to take a page from the mets book of fail our theme should be
meet the nyets
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
HoopsVibe’s Very Quick Call: He’s a decent on-court addition.
Johan Petro will bang, rebound, block shots, and defend. And the Frenchman is a serviceable back-up for budding star Brook Lopez.
As usual, the New Jersey Nets signed him for reasonable money, and it’s the latest example of the organization bringing in young, undervalued players.
Apparently, this is the max that the Heat can offer Haslem
Year 1: $3,870,000
Year 2: $4,276,350
Year 3: $4,682,700
Year 4: $5,089,050
Year 5: $5,495,400
Year 6: $5,901,750
Total: $29,6315,250
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
It looks like the Heat are waiting to sign Haslem before they complete their deals with
Bosh and Lebron, so they can keep his Bird Rights.
The thing that the Nets should be able to do is offer more money at less years.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And this is a rough estimate of the Heat salary cap situation
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
wow I first read that as
29 million in the 6th year and was horribly confused
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
WojYahooNBA
RT @SpearsNBAYahoo: Swingman Dorrell Wright to sign a three-year, $11 million guaranteed deal with Warriors, league source tells Yahoo.
Gina weeps
Well, we got Morrow the shooter and they got Wright the shooter to replace him
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
IM DYING ON THE INSIDE
seriously in a market where warrick gets 4/18 and wright, who is younger and with more upside considering the time he missed to injuries, gets 3/11 we pay outlaw 5/32.
is there no justice?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
T
ravis Outlaw’s debut with the Clippers was emblematic of his career in Portland.
Only a few minutes after entering the game Monday night, the small forward made a 22-foot jumper. He followed with a pair of three-point baskets in the second quarter to give the Clippers a 13-point lead during an eventual 98-94 victory over Charlotte.
His final line: 10 points on four-for-six shooting and one rebound in 15 minutes.
“It felt pretty good,” Outlaw said Tuesday. “There’s a lot more tweaking to my game, and I’m hoping as the season goes on I can quickly make the adjustments.”
Outlaw was a sparkplug with Portland, leading the Blazers’ bench in scoring a team-high 38 times during the 2008-09 season. He got off to another strong start this season before suffering a stress fracture in his left foot Nov. 14.
The longest-tenured Trail Blazer was traded to the Clippers before he could play again, though Outlaw, 25, figured he would not finish his career in Portland because of the logjam of players at his position. “It was just so crowded,” said Outlaw, the Blazers’ first-round pick in 2003 out of high school.
Outlaw considers himself as more than just a scorer off the bench and expects to create more off the dribble than he did Monday, when he mostly took jumpers. Clippers interim Coach Kim Hughes said he also would like the 6-foot-9 forward to be a more productive rebounder.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
formatting.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
And Henry Abbot on Outlaw
Abbott: I have thought about that player way too much, and will struggle to keep this concise. But some ideas: When he came into the NBA he could not shoot A LICK. Every time he started to, he’d coil and spring in the most bizarre fashion — some guys lean right or left when they shoot. He would get his upper body going in both directions before he landed, which is really amazing.
It is to everlasting credit, however, that the guy has learned to become a very special kind of shooter. Few NBA players go from never being allowed to shoot to having repeated plays called for them with the game on the line. And every single player who ever makes that leap is, you can guarantee it, a hard worker. Which matters. Outlaw is frank that he really wants to be a star. That’s his motivation, and I believe he’ll keep working hard because of it. He’s a real-deal long athlete, he has this ability to score. He’s also everybody’s best friend, and to my eyes an important part of why the Blazers have generally been a cheerful team.
However, he is not the most aware player. Some players are really quick thinking, but that’s not him. The exact cluelessness that makes him impervious to crunch-time pressure also makes him a liability in complex defensive schemes. His defense has gotten much better, and the sky’s the limit for his individual D. But you know how Boston so cleverly rotates to keep everyone covered with help? Hard to picture him thriving in that system. And, there was a game the Blazers lost when Brandon Roy was doubled in the corner on the big play, and he seemed to have no plan. Afterward, we learn that Outlaw was supposed to have cut down the lane, but for some reason didn’t. Which was too bad.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying he can't be a useful player
just that I don’t see how he’s a better gamble than these similar players getting much lesser deals.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
The question is, is he similar?
He has a quality, apparently, that few guys have. He is a cold-blooded 4th quarter scorer. None of the guys you mentioned have this quality, and this quality wins games, period.
Further, he has the quality of being a very hard worker. Apparently he came into the league not even being able to shoot and built his shot from the ground up. This means hard work, this means very coachable.
And this speaks to your question about whether someone in the league can change. He has changed, and seems like he will continue to.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
For instance
Hakim Warrick shot less than 20% from three seldom taking them and Outlaw nearly 40% at nearly the same rebound rate.
And Dorrel Wright, though he can shoot the three is certainly not an end of game guy and solidly a bench player and already is going to be in his 7th season (the Gina is what he is rule applies).
I don’t think that either of these guys is Outlaw or have what he brings.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Outlaw's been in the league for 7 years
which is why I say he is what he is. Wrights been in the league for 5 and missed most of two of them with a severe injury. If Outlaw was 24 and had missed 2 years with injuries I wouldn’t say he is what he is.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Hmmm. Usually when a player missing significant time Gina is the first one in line to say “Injury Prone!” and run the other way. Now Gina says, “Hey, this means he hasn’t been on the court very much, yah!”
Correction. Dorell came into the league the year after Outlaw, in the 2004 draft, so he has been in the league 6 years not 5. And has missed two of them due to injury. Is this a GOOD thing?
Be that as it may be the upside on Outlaw is WAY higher than Dorell who will never be more than a bench player (by your own admission, even for the Nets). Outlaw rather is a 4th quarter finisher, and starting SF material. There really is no comparison.
Travis Outlaw will be TURNING 26 in September
Dorell Wright will be TURNING 25 in December
They are 1 year and 3 months apart.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
No when players miss significant time spread out I say injury prone
not when they have one severe injury and then come back.
And Outlaw has played in 200 more games.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
what do you mean “significant time spread out”???
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean like missing 20 games a season
over multiple years. Or missing 30 games one season, 30 games another, 40 another.
And I was wary of Paul’s injury because of the resources and money invested. Wrights deal is something a team could easily just buy out of.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Hmmm. Well Amare was “injury prone” if I recall, due to an injury 5 seasons ago. And then because of a freak accidental shattering of his eye socket (which can happen to anyone). Your view of injury prone seems haphazard to me.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 11, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I never called him injury prone
I said he was a bad investment because the suns thought he was going to need touch up surgery. Just like I said if Paul proved he was the same player by the deadline I wouldn’t consider him an injury risk anymore.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Wright’s injury sounds much more series than Paul’s injury, which you were very wary of:
Wright had surgery Monday to repair a left meniscus tear, which he suffered in the second quarter of Miami’s 120-109 loss Sunday night at the Sacramento Kings. Miami wasted a 23-point second-half lead and fell to 11-46, the worst record in the NBA.
The Heat said Wright would be in a straight-leg brace for one month, and will begin rehabilitation immediately.
The 22-year-old Wright averaged career-bests of 7.9 points, 5.0 rebounds and 25.2 minutes in 43 games this season, plus hit 49 percent of his shots, the best mark of his four seasons. He also started 33 games, 12 more than he started in his first three NBA seasons combined.
Wright missed time earlier this season with a sprained ankle, plus lost two teeth after being struck in a game against the Philadelphia 76ers last month.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
ah, “more serious”.
I don’t really get it Gina. You already pegged Wright as a bench player at best for the Nets, and Outlaw is a starting SF. The difference in their price tags is the difference between starting and coming off the bench.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It's more that I don't believe much in Outlaw's upside
right now, he’s not that much better of a player than Warrick/Wright etc. 2-3 years ago I did but at this point I just don’t see any reason to believe he’ll be much better than what he has been, a fringe starter and nice role/bench player.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Warrick can’t shoot the three at all, so I don’t know why you compare him to Warrick. He simply is not in his offensive league.
And I don’t really understand how you are comparing Wright to Outlaw in terms of potential. You have already said that Wright is only a bench player on the Nets. Are you saying that Outlaw cannot be a starter for the Nets? That is pretty harsh.
Besides the “role player” he was in Portland was 4th quarter shot taker. This is a role that Wright never had.
Its not that Outlaw has to be a superstar, all he has to be is a solid starting SF.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 11, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
and a self correction.
Dorell did not miss time in his rookie year due to injury, but rather because he sat on the bench, as far as I can tell.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Josh Childress
Hey NI What’s the story with Josh Childress? Wouldn’t he be a good fit on this team? Athletic, intelligent an over achiever
A good fit? He have 7 perimeter players already, 6 of which is definately need minutes and still no backup PG
How is Josh Childress a good fit?
all the small forwards are belong to us
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Cavs are thinking of approaching him - Twitter
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 10, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
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