Favors Wows Johnson, But Thorn Non-Commital about His Future
by Net Income on Jun 25, 2010 3:46 PM EDT
in 2010 NBA Draft
Email
PrintIn separate interviews with WFAN's Evan Roberts and Mike Francesa, Avery Johnson and Rod Thorn talked about Derrick Favors' potential...both as a player and a trade chip.
Johnson compared Favors to a smaller Dwight Howard and a younger Kevin Garnett. He has the potential, said the coach, to be "a perennial All-Star" who "could have the greatest impact of any player" taken in this year's draft.
Thorn was less effusive but called Favors "the player who I think could help our team most in the long run". He also acknowledged Favors could be a "chip" in free agency. Thorn even admitted to Francesa that it's possible, but not likely, that neither Favors nor Damion James will ever play a game for the Nets.
Johnson did say the signing of a veteran PF could actually help Favors' development and also asked for time to evaluate Yi Jianlian. Speaking about Damion James, the coach and GM said the Nets hoped he would drop and said a couple of teams had him #12 and #14 on their boards, mentioning the Grizzlies in particular. Calling him "tough, rugged kid" and "hard-nosed" the two made it clear that James will play the small forward for the Nets...and play defense.
As for free agency, Johnson reiterated the global nature of the Nets recruiting plan. He admitted that there is concern about the Knicks and Bulls having more cap room, but added, "We're not done yet ... Rod can get very creative."
- Avery Johnson Interview (Audio) - Evan Roberts - WFAN
- Rod Thorn Interview (Audio) - Mike Francesa - WFAN
198 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
He says the decision was made Monday
after the workouts and interviews he and Thorn did with Favors and Cousins.
Yeah
Avery wants Cousins.
Avery wants Cousins!
Avery wants Cousins!
I didnt want to create three separate posts to reiterate the same point.
by SIC One on Jun 25, 2010 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
WHAT???
I love how you Cousins guys found a way to spin this… Oh, BTW, Cousins is on his way to SAC-TOWN, so get over it!!!
Just not sure...
with some of these guys…. :-)
I'm happy
Now lets get Yi a one way ticket out of here and I will be happy
by killa kadafi191 on Jun 25, 2010 1:18 PM EDT reply actions
it doesnt matter because the nets got Favors and Avery has to make it work, and i dont see why he would want cousins when you have a great center in BLopez, and Favors would complement him well, and almost instantly, he may be raw but his ability to rebound clean up and help on defense make him already a huge roll in the nets line up, the nets just need to find a good assistant coach to help him develop, but i feel his impact is going to be felt right off the bat, he will show his aggressiveness on offensive boards and put backs, and his quickness on defense in locking down most guy, and people will realize why he compliments this team so well.
Right on
Favors’s play complement Brook well. I hope they develop his game soon, so he can have a chance to start, or at least play alongside Brook as the first big off the bench.
How can’t he not compliment the team that will make him a guaranteed millionaire right off the bat? You can really see his big smile when his name was called. LOL.
Keep Favors!
Between him, Brook, Twill, Avery and Jones, the work ethic on this team is gonna be contagious. If Yi is still on the team, and he can’t get better working with these guys, he won’t get better anywhere.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Jun 25, 2010 1:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Avery looks a little too excited comparing Favors with Howard and Garnett.
He’s a high energy player who’s bringing defense, rebounding and toughness and will be very efficient doing those things.
Also Antoine Wright didn’t turn into Allan Houston and Sean Williams didn’t turn into Amare Stoudemire.
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
I think he's envisions him with Dwight more
But he definitely has a softer touch than Dwight and doesn’t throw rocks at the rim like Garnett.
In fact i believe he could even develop into a better player than Howard.
Time will tell.
As of now he’ll be ready to contribute in many areas.
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
I wouldn't go to that extent
Good player sure, but better than Howard? I don’t see it. Howard’s not only athletic, he’s absolutely chiseled too.
Yeah Defensively
he’s a monster, but if you look at Howards Rookie vids he was smaller than Favors interesting.
It would take a crazy amount of time in the gym, but he's got that wok ethic
But, that would mean less time developing on the court stuff. So it’s a trade off. Becoming an overpowering beast, or developing more skills. It’s pretty darn hard to have both. And you might struggle with having a soft touch around the basket with a lot of body building. That’s why shooters don’t develop their muscles too much, they spend more time on the court than in the gym
Yeah good point
They say Howard spends more time wearing his extra small t-shirt and posing for the cameras during shootaroud rather than perfect jumper etc…..Lets hope Favors doesn’t let all that stuff go to his head like that.
Exactly he has great work ethic he will get there!
It’s pretty darn hard to have both
It’s funny how this is true in practice but there’s no logical fundament to support that.
Lebron James is pretty strong and have a finesse game, maybe that can happen with Favors, he’s shown some glimpses of his post skills already, something Howard didn’t show as a draft prospect.
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
Howard...
…may be built like a bloody tank, but his offensive game is pathetic for a guy of that stature.
The best part about Favors is that we don’t have to rely on him to play back to the basket. He’s the dirty work guy. If he develops the way we hope he will, our C/PF combo will dominate this conference and the league.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
So would you advocate he focus on becoming a physical specimen instead of trying to develop more skills like a back to the basket game or a more consistent jump shot?
Hmm him going the Dwight Howard route might actually be better than trying to match Cousins’ skills. You know working at the gym would be a lot easier for him than trying to develop skills
I fail to understand how he can't do both at the same time.
It doesn’t take a lot of time out of your life if you work out and work on your basketball skills. I mean…it is his job after all
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I dunno, I think those two things require different things from your body, in that they conflict
One required more delicate, soft movements with your fingers and wrist and control of muscles while the other is brute strength. You can work on both at the same time, yes, but to effectively utilize is another thing to me
If Howard had Lopez playing with him the Magic would have won a couple championships by now!
That’s why I think if Favors develops into a Howard type player i should be ok!
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
immediate contribution....
….this is what I expect as well. As long as he plays hard, he’ll be fine regardless of the learning curve.
I was skeptical about the claims of Avery wanting Cousins that badly because Avery knows the value of having a PF that can defend the paint and clean the glass.
We are in the same conference as Dwight Howard and Lebron James. If we can’t defend the rim and paint area, we aren’t getting to the NBA Finals.
I’m PUMPED.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He'll put in the work
It’s all about experience, and showing a competitive drive during games.
100% effort.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah he gained 15 pounds in College
He’s going to get that grown man weight once he reaches 20 as well.
did you guys hear
that after a game he was in the weight room lifting weights… YA after a GAME! he was…
Avery Said they know it s a 2 year Curve
For Favors but what comes after that may be very nice. He reminds me of Jermaine Oneal he also took 2 to 3 years to develop.
by Hollywoodnet on Jun 25, 2010 1:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
please don't compare him to JO
That scares me….him or any Clippers or blazers pick at the big. That’s a jinx.
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Jun 25, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
one thing i am not sure about this draft is whats going on with the Bucks trade, i hope the nets push for both the 44 and 47, i wouldnt mind bolstering the front court with contracts we dont have to sign till after free agency, then try to dump yi for a future pick, that frees up the room needed for 2 max contracts with out giving up a lot
stupid trade, didnt clear anything, didnt even change the chemistry because i feel johnson would have held him in check
I think they wouldn’t pick up his option in order to save money…so they saw this(and stupid) offer as a bonus
i would have at least tried to get one of their 2nd rders this year. dumb move
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to somehow get Kenyon Martin...
but we would have to do something creative with his 17m contract. Could we just buy him out and sign him to a reasonable contract with some long term dedication?
He wouldn't be in the film room teaching Favors...
He would giving him black eyes on the practice court.
good!!!
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, I'm being ridiculous, I know.
Don’t 2010 contracts technically expire on July 1st?
What if Kenyon Martin doesn’t use his ETO and we trade Hump for him, and buy Martin out ASAP? Would that still count towards the 2011 cap?
The buyout amount counts against the cap
So, unless Kenyon agrees to lose a lot of money, it ain’t happening.
One thing
One thing I respect about the pick is that Favors is a class act. A quiet kid who just works hard. Cousins is gonna be the loud mouth in the Kings locker room, the annoying one.
AP
and will probably have the locker room smelling like the area by the rutgers grease trucks
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Cousins will be eating a lot of In-N-Out burgers, once he discovers how good it is
the locker room will be filled with gas, as a by-product of those burgers.
(ok, I’m just kidding)
One thing about Favors though
He does have to try and be more aggressive. When you watch him in a game scenario, there are plenty of times where he could have had an opportunity to score had he put himself in the position to or had he tried to make a move towards scoring. He could easily be a better player if he was more aggressive with always trying to make something happen. Damion should teach him a thing or two about that.
And one concern is Avery. What if he gets too hard on Favors and it kind of sets back his development?
Yeah but it looks like
he wants to work hard and go hard and learn from Avery, thats one thing if Hump comes back, he works haaaaard man, would be a good person to watch in practice. But we do need that 3 mill for free agency.
i'd rather pay The Hump the 3 mil...
…instead of Yi’s 4 mil. sheesh
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
who would want to take them on though?
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
if he doesn't respond well to a firm hand and a demand for accountability....
…then he is a sissy, simple and plain
If your coach challenges you to play like a man, RESPOND. I’m tired of seeing basketball players acting like pantywaists when someone gets in their face for playing like crap
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Well different people have different psychological makeups
You can’t handle everybody in any type of profession all in one way. Different people react differently to stimuli. Some guys you have to be up front with, other guys you can’t destroy their self esteem like that. Different people need to be handled differently, that’s what you have to see and know as a coach. Knowing how to handle players is just as important as X’s and O’s
you don't treat everyone the same...
…you just treat them fair. From what I’ve read about his attitude, I think the kid will respond well to Avery pushing him to be great
God it’s nice to finally have a legitimate coach on this team.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Dwight Howard rookie year footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMK4UXr3XrU
OMG his muscles were nonexistent! And if you watch, the entire 1 and a half minute consists of 90% dunks! Only 1 jumpshot and 1 layup, otherwise, all he did was dunk. But to Howard’s credit though, I think from watching that his footwork was better than Favors’ and again his aggression was higher. More athletic too.
dunks a bit harder and seems to have better coordination than favors
but their bodies and movements look really similar
yeah but that coordination can make a big impact
Favors struggles with turnovers. That coordination is the difference between an and-one and a traveling call when you’re under pressure
LOL that shot of the backboard
Where did that come from definitely can’t do that now, maybe his muscles have hampered him lol
i think there athletic ability
the same…but howards coordination is much better and his foot work is very good.
Favors should be able to develop a muscular body like howard and amare…but offensive he needs LOTS of work…nets need to roy rogers to rub off some magic on him.
5:00: The case for Cousins dropping to No. 5: He’s so immature that (A) he’s been most compared to Rasheed Wallace and Derrick Coleman; (B) Cousins and Minnesota would have been a worse match than Cisco Adler and Mischa Barton; and © John Thompson defended him as a top-five pick by saying, “You can calm down a fool before you can resurrect a corpse.” Any time someone uses the word “fool” as he’s defending you, there are probably some major red flags.
The case for Cousins haunting Philly, Jersey and especially Minnesota: He’s the draft’s most polished big man and a guaranteed 20/10 guy in the pros if his head’s right. And also, in 2010: (A) Zach Randolph made an All-Star team; (B) Lamar Odom won his second straight title; and © Ron Artest made the biggest shot in Game 7 of the Finals. If there was ever a year to roll the dice with Cousins, it’s 2010. We have a crapload of head-case momentum right now.
5:00: The Kings smartly grab him at No. 5. Cousins and Tyreke Evans in back-to-back drafts? Yikes. Major talent haul for a small-market team. I wish the Stern/Cousins handshake could have lasted for 25 minutes. Stern sized him up the way a lion looks at a potentially troublesome cub. That was great.
5:02: ESPN’s graphics guy gives Cousins “MUST IMPROVE: MATURITY.” Knew that was coming and it still made me laugh. That was like giving Ben Roethlisberger “MUST IMPROVE: OFF-FIELD CONDUCT.”
5:05: Cousins on the general public’s biggest misconception about him: “They think I’m a monster off the floor, I’m nothing like that. I’m just a kid that likes to have fun.” I mean, he does have the nickname “Boogie.” He might be right. By the way, I love whenever someone defends a head case (like we’ve seen with Cousins this past year) with the “He doesn’t drink or do drugs” defense. Oh, even better … so he’s NATURALLY a head case?
Bill Simmons = God
I think the chances of Cousins coming back to haunt us is actually quite good
But you have to factor in there, are we settling for a humongously lesser talent? We can’t really say right now but if Favors pans out, the gap won’t be that big.
chances are cousins will come back to haunt us
cousins is a 18ppg 10 reb guy for sure…
if favors can average 15ppg and rebound just as much we made made the right pick…because favors’ defense and work ethic will make up for it.
my point is
that it is equally silly to suggest that Favors may be better than Wall as it is to suggest that Cousins will be better the Favors.
I would like someone to tell me with a straight face how many NBA teams would have chosen Cousins over Wall.
lol WHAT?
Favors wasn’t in the mix for number one, Cousins was in the mix for number. So no, it isn’t equally silly to suggest Favors could be better than Wall as it would be to suggest Cousins will be better than Favors. He already is better. IMO, Cousins and Monroe will be the best big men out of this draft class, just my opinion, not a knock on Favors, but that’s what I think. Only time will tell, I hope I’m proven wrong.
and heeeeeeeereeeee we go
i can already hear the wings of the vultures, flapping over head…..thethe foul stench of a fresh carcass burning their nostrils, their mouths salivating with delight over the idea of plunging their beaks into the decaying meat and flesh.
It’s time to feed.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
no it isn't
Twitter is serious business.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
besides, even if it was serious business
that doesnt justify your poor analogy lol
It depends on who's hand it is..
Put it in CDR’s hand and of course he’ll make of fool out of himself… but I expect Favors’ maturity to not cause any problems here.
" I'm really excited to take the worst team in the league and turn it to be the best in the league." --Mikhail Prokhorov.
I love how every comparison is...
How he is just like some really good big man except without that really good big man’s best asset or ability.
You mean like "A Smaller Dwight Howard"
LOL Yeah I caught that too
He's actually bigger than Dwight was entering the league and...
He’s younger than Dwight was when he entered the league…
Pretty much equal
Howard at the combine: 6’9" w/o shoes, 6’10.25" with shoes, 240 lbs
Favors at the combine: 6’8.75" w/o shoes, 6’10.25" with shoes, 246 lbs
Yeah that is what I am saying
He compares to other great big men in every way except the skill that makes them a great big man.
That always seemed to be his best skill to me
Fade aways and top of the key jumpers. Not like I watched a lot of T’Wolves and Celtics games.
What?
Kg is a HOF and not because hes a jump shooter. Hes a great defensive player, in his prime he was a top notch post player and could run the court. Great passer for his side. Rebounds, block shots…ect. The jumpshot is just part of his game. I dont see Favors with Garnetts offensive skills, but I do see he has the capability on the defensive side.
ok, I wasnt thinking about his D...
He wouldnt be considered a great big if he was just a defensive stopper who couldnt score. Offensively, I dont remember him ever being a guy that backed someone down and dunked over them. Seemed like he made most of his points off of J’s.
KG in his prime was a beast
Post game, jump shots, run the court. As hes gotten older its been more about the j, but if you look at a young KG he had a nice post game (scoring or creating for others)
exactly...
….he was the definition of a “stud” big man.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I will give you the defense point...
Bt if we talk strictly offense in his hay day how did he score most of his points? I seem to remember him always backing a guy down a little and shoting fade aways and putting the ball on the floor for a few dribbles and shooting a quick top of the key and elbow jumpers.
like O Dog said, KG in his prime was a beast
i feel like not many remember him in his prime in Minnesota. he was a very explosive player.. and a scary one comin right at the defense. i youtube KG but i really only found one video that was of his more older stuff. Grant it, it is all on his dunks, but it should still give you an idea of how powerful and aggressive he was
Allow me to translate Avery's spin
1. We think Favors can be a really good player in two or three years if everything breaks exactly right, but right now he’s nothing more than a role player.
2. We still need a starting PF because the kid we drafted #3 Overall is NOT ready to start in this league.
3. We would trade Favors in a heartbeat for the right price, so how much can we really love him?
4. Unless we trade Favors for in a package for CP3 and sign an elite PF, LeBron James is a pipe dream … but I have to pretend otherwise because we have tickets to sell and the crazy Russian thinks LeBron will sign on just because the crazy Russian is a billionare with a cool acsent.
Rod Thorn on Mike Fran today
After listening to Rod Thorn on Mike Fran…. Favors will most probably be trade bait…… there is a HIGH CHAnCE that he will not be on our roster……
Mike Fran (dont wry i dont consider him a basketball guru) believes that the Nets are gonna trade him maybe for Amare….. wateva the fact….. something is stirring…..
Why would we need to trade Favors is a sign and trade for anybody?
A team can’t make demands in a sign and trade. If their player says, I want to go here, make a trade with this place if you want to get something in return instead of absolutely nothing, there’s nothing they can do. We don’t have to give away ANYTHING of value in a sign and trade. The other team has no control over where the player goes
because we're the nets
and we do stupid things
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Trading Favors for a guy demanding max dollars, having already had 1 micro fracture surgery and likely needing a second sometime during the next 5 years would be incredibly stupid. Guess we will see how smart our front office really is.
I am not sure why any of the posters here want to see us get a Max FA PF. With 1 max free agent we are not winning a championship next season. Why not continue to build from within?
Everyone who believes that we are 1 PF away from a trophy is delusional. And even if Lebron comes, we should stick the course with the young talent we have assembled. Its funny how people mock the Nets for blowing up the franchise and unloading everything to be in the position to sign 2 max free agents and now are trying to peddle their nucleus as a promising young nucleus. The knicks model doesn’t work and never did work. Why are we trying to emulate their quick fix by throwing big money at older players or guys with injury histories.
The Knicks are a lock to give max money to Joe Johnson and either Amare or Boozer. And they probably still fail to make the playoffs.
by Ryan243 on Jun 25, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I TOTALLY AGREE! Why trade him? For another maxed out power forward? Amare or Boozer really have done nothing, but, make some all star games. Big Whoop! Favors can be that same player in the next couple of years. No need to rush. We have a nice young nucleus. Lets grab a couple of free agents and continue to build a championship roster. We now have a guy who can compliment Brook.
LETS GO NETS!
It's not a lock that we will follow the "knicks model".
We are weighing our options. We have a valued asset. It’s only common sense to see what he can bring in return.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely Agree
Although I have no idea what the “knicks model” means. I think one can look at the draft + free agents + players that teams are willing to trade as a pool that all 30 teams are trying to get the most out of. What counts is what the Nets looks like at the end of the day. But how or why would the Nets trade Favors for a guy like Amare, whose contract is expiring? Without a contract, what would Phoenix be trading?
A 2004 Dwight Howard scouting report from ESPN
Downside: Not much. The biggest complaint from scouts is a perceived lack of passion. “You hate to claim that a guy might be too nice for the NBA, but that’s about the most that I can come up with,” one scout told Insider. ’I’m not sure he really has the edge that the great ones like Garnett and [Amare] Stoudemire had." Every other scouting report is pretty similar. Comments like “he needs time to develop” or “he needs to be a little nastier” are about the only negative things you hear. When Insider saw him in a workout in mid June a few more things stood out. He wasn’t in great shape. His shot was all over the place and he seemed to struggle to pick up some basic low post moves.
Sound familiar?
He also compared himself to Kevin Garnett, just like Favors did
Insider Projection: Is he the next Kevin Garnett as he claims? Or is he the second coming of Kwame Brown, as another scout warns in hushed tones?
Is Favors a devout Christian like Howard was too?
I say “was”, because I remember how the kid was very religious before entering the league…I suppose having millions of dollars and women throwing themselves at you in every city changes that.
He went from wanting Jesus to replace Jerry West on the NBA logo to knocking up cheerleaders and stalking porn actresses. Some people live the life man, I tell ya
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
HONESTLY, WHO ARE SEASON TICKET HOLDERS HERE?
or are the big mouths mostly just GM-wannabes?
Why trade Derrick Favors and Devin Harris for an injury-slowed down CP3?
Why trade away a very good point guard and a high-potential bigman for a small (once) great point-guard that has been slowed down by injuries? If a SMALL great point guard is slowed-down by injuries that turns him into JUST a good to a very good point guard.
Trading Favors and Harris for CP3 will leave the NETS enough CAP space for only 1 more max FA. How do you solve the PF problem? Do you think Lopez, LBJ and CP3 can stop the length of the Lakers??? They won’t even get past the Celtics! Lopez and CP3 will get crashed by the rugged players of the Celtics.
by kuljo on Jun 25, 2010 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Why trade Derrick Favors and Devin Harris for Chris Paul?
1. Because Chris Paul (not Favors) makes us a BIG PLAYER in free agency, enticing to all big name free agents including LeBron James.
2. Because there are elite PF’s out the wazoo in this FA class.
I understand that part, I am asking about the CAP space issue.
Remember, that there are many teams that will go after the Power Forward FA’s once LBJ is taken and those teams will offer Big money. So, how can you afford CP3, LBJ, and another high-priced FA?
You can't
The Hornets aren’t taking back Harris, they have Collison. You’d have to broker a 3rd team in or something and give away Lopez just to make it happen (the Hornets aren’t trading unless they get a sure thing back, no rookies)
That is why I don't agree in the CP3 trade. The Nets will have to find other ways like:
- trading Humphries 1 year-contract if he opts-in
- trading Yi Jian Lian
- pick-up Doolings team option and package him with Yi or Humphries or all 3 to clear more space to sign 2 MAX FA’s.
I said if we unload Davis Harris and YI
And I would add Kris Humphries
If Rod Thorn can get to work on unloading those contracts like the Bulls, Heat and Knicks, and we add CP3 to Brook Lopez, we’ll have the pieces in place to make this a very desirable destination for elite FA’s and the money to add two.
Dont think we will have enought $ for 2 Max FA
CP3 makes 16M annually. We would be able to get 1 max guy, but to be honest a team starting with CP3 and Lopez will be very enticing to get 1 max guy. I think if CP3 is healthy then I would do the deal. I just dont think NO would.
BTW, I am a big Favors fan. I just think that a healthy CP3 you dont pass up- not only because hes CP3, but I can easily seeing another marquee FA wanting to play with him. A big 3 surrounded by role players like Lee and James.
What would you give the Hornets without Lopez in the deal? They're not handing you CP3 for Favors, they're gonna want something proven, not a rookie
Plus, makes no sense for them to only trade CP3. They’d still have Okafor’s huge contract. Any deal with CP3 must also come with Okafor’s 12 million dollar salary. Not much more (or any at all) cap space once you get those two.
Really, try thinking this through first
You would have to get a 3rd team involved and get creative....
Favors and Harris would both have to go, perhaps future draft picks and cash as well and you would need to bring in a 3rd team because NO doesnt need a PG. Like I said, I donth think NO will do it- but if CP3 is available everyone on our roster other than Lopez should be available- if hes healthy hes that good.
IF he's healthy. Big if at this moment
And I don’t know about you, but that is an extremely complicated trade bordering on impossible that all sides would agree
Agreed big If
I am only talking If hes healthy. IF healthy we should explore, only player I would not give up is Lopez. And can you imagine how good Lopez would be if he played with CP3 and not Devin Harris.
Paul is an undersized PG. He just had a major knee injury/surgery. Why does everyone automatically assume that Paul is going to be the dominant PG he once was? Aside from JKidd, very few PGs who rely upon speed and change of direction ever truly regain their form. That is with all athletes in general.
And is CP3 better than a motivated Devin Harris and Derrick Favors? Not even close.
Again, Lopez, LBJ, and CP3 on paper is very very nice, but they will get clobbered in the Playoffs.
The physicality or ruggedness of the game goes several notches up in the playoffs.
Can you visualize how Lopez, LBJ, and CP3 will fair against the Lakers and the Celtics BIGZ?
Really?
Thats where you go get role players to play with them. Look at all of the Championship teams since Magic/Bird- they all had Superstars- not just stars.
Magic/Bird/MJ/Isiah/Kobe/Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan….all superstars. You win games with stars, you win Championships with Superstars (and role players)
A true observation
You cannot win in this league without somebody to take on the very best and to lead by example. At a bare minimum – a REAL Dirk or Bosh. Preferably more: a LeBron, DWade. I just don’t see the Nets going for a superstar yet in the “five year plan.” (Everytime I hear “five year plan” I fear for Russian peasants!)
O Dog - Really good point
It actually goes way back beyond Bird and Magic. I’ve posted this before. There is not a single Championship team in the modern history of the league that did not have at least ONE but almost always TWO Hall of Fame players. When building a team if you are serious about winning championships (and not merely games), you have to keep this “super-star” rule in mind:
2010 – Kobe, Gasol?
2009 – Kobe, Gasol?
2008 – Garnett, Pierce, Rondo?, Allen
2007 – Duncan, Parker?, Ginobili?
2006 – Shaq, Wade, Payton?
2005 – Duncan, Parker?, Ginobili?
2004 – Billups?, Hamilton?, Prince?
2003 – Duncan, Robinson, Ginobili?
2002 – Shaq, Kobe
2001 – Shaq, Kobe
2000 – Shaq, Kobe
1999 – Duncan, Robinson
1998 – Jordan, Pippen, Rodman?
1997 – Jordan, Pippen, Rodman?
1996 – Jordan, Pippen, Rodman?
1995 – Hakeem, Drexler
1994 – Hakeem, Cassell?
1993 – Jordan, Pippen, Grant?
1992 – Jordan, Pippen, Grant?
1991 – Jordan, Pippen, Grant?
1990 – Isiah, Dumars, Rodman?
1989 – Isiah, Dumars, Rodman?
1988 – Magic, Kareem, Worthy
1987 – Magic, Kareem, Worthy
1986 – Bird, McHale, Parish, Walton, D. Johnson
1985 – Magic, Kareem, Worthy, McAdoo
1984 – Bird, McHale, Parish, D. Johnson
1983 – Dr. J, Mose Malone
1982 – Kareem, Magic, McAdoo
1981 – Bird, McHale, Parish, Achibald
1980 – Kareem, Magic
1979 – D. Johnson
1978 – Unseld, Hayes
1977 – Walton, Lucas?
1976 – Cowens, Havlicek
1975 – Barry
1974 – Cowen, Havlicek
1973 – Bradley, Debusschere, Frazier, Monroe, Reed
1972 – Chamberlain, Goodrich, West
1971 – Kareem (then Alcindor), O. Robinson
1970 – Bradley, Debusschere, Frazier, Monroe, Reed
1969 – Havlicek, Jones, Russell
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jun 25, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Nicely Done
And pretty hard to argue with. The Nets are nowhere the level of any of those teams and it’s hard to see how in the near future they could be, although I suppose that stranger things have happened.
Detroit is the only team that MIGHT be an exception to the rule (and some of these guys are probably HOFs). You just have to pursue the A+ level talent when you can. You cannot just build a really nice team and then try to insert a great player to put oneself over the top. Gina and I have a pretty big disagreement about this. If you just build a nice team you end up winning a lot of games but your salary cap gets eaten up by the time you are ready for the addition. The entire focus of your team building is getting one (or two) of the these great players.
That’s why everyone is going crazy right now with Wade, Lebron and Bosh (?). It is seen as the only window into elite status aside from lucking out in the draft. If the Nets miss out on the upper tier what really are they going to do?
If you lock yourself into “really good” players you end up like the Hawks (or the Cavs of the 90s). Essentially locked out of the championship.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jun 25, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
p.s.
That’s the interesting thing about Chris Paul. Big questions about the knee, but IF you can’t get Lebron or Wade (I have doubts about Bosh, but include him if you like), there is NO other “super star” level player on the conceivable horizon for two years. None.
Now, does Paul’s knee allow him to play at the level of his prime (which he should be in)? That’s a big question. But if you don’t lock up a superstar now, Paul may represent the only foreseeable window for such a dude.
Of course, you can try to save cap room and try to make a late-in-career trade like they tried with Kidd and Carter, which was genius because it honored the super star rule. The snagged two HOFs and made a run for it.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jun 25, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Paul has one leg
I highly doubt, from what i’ve read, that he’d even make it past the Nets physical.
Just because someone has a famous name doesn’t mean that we should bet the farm on them, especially when they have no cartilage in their knee
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's how Rod Thorn can redeem himself
1. Trade Derrick Favors and Devin Harris for Chris Paul
2. Find a taker for YI and throw them some future 2nd RD Picks to take him off our hands.
3. Add LeBron James and David Lee … OR … Rudy Gay and Chris Bosh
C Brook Lopez
PF David Lee
SF LeBron James
SG Terrence Williams
PG Chris Paul
OR
C Brook Lopez
PF Chris Bosh
SF Rudy Gay
SG Terrence Williams
PG Chris Paul
Nice, but I don't think the NETS will have enough CAP space for CP3, LBJ, and David Lee.
Teams will offer David Lee big money once the NETS signs LBJ. That will leave the NETS VERY WEAK in the PF position. The Celtics will break CP3’s legs and split Yi into half in the playoffs.
Luckily you are not the GM. As if we did that – what would happen in a year when CP3 is a free agent and Brook is up for a max or near max contract? You would have created a 1 year window for this team – and guarantee that 1 if not both will leave the following year as we can’t afford them.
Any path to getting Lebron is a huge win. We have a billionaire for an owner, and league rules permit going over the cap to re-sign your own guys. I think Prokhorov would pony up the dough to pay these guys provided we have the cash cow that is Lebron on the team. What dobermite suggests is probably the goal of Thorn right now; I just dont think there is much of a chance for it to actually happen. I think chances could improve if Thorn agrees to take Okafor off of New Orleans’ hands and probably would have to throw in TWill as well. It wouldnt be a good deal for us, but if Lebron comes it would be a turning point for the franchise.
Damion James could be our new KMart, energy-wise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9ZwWeEwspY&feature=related
Watch the energy after the dunk. Very much reminiscent of?
Love the player, not the comparison. Damion James will hopefully make a name for himself. Excellent defender, pretty good shooter, a lot of energy. As of now he should work on his Ft’s.
A bonus for Favors: he's ambidextrous
He’s just as good with his left hand as he is with his right. That’s a gift that comes in handy
Why a CP3 trade is virtually impossible (sorry dobermite)
Chad Ford:
Only way they dump Okafor or Peja is if they include CP3 in deal. That’s whole point. New O doesn’t want to trade Paul But they may have to if they can’t find a way to get under the tax. Any team that trades for him has to take back $25 million and send no more than $10 million back. A combo of CP3-Okafor-LeBron will cost you $42.5 millon. No team has that flexibility.
Ok, say bye bye to that dream
Then we should keep Favors. I dont agree in a S&T for Amare and would only do it for Bosh IF we are guaranteed LBJ.
More optimistic
Peja is an expiring contract. You then trade Peja in a sign and trade with someone for a max contract FA. You can then have 2 allstars with a net salary gain inside the cap.
Hmmm...I think its within reach
CP3, Okafor, Lebron – 42.5
Lopez – 2.4
TWill – 2.2
Lee – 1.35
D.James – 1.25
Thats 49.7 million right there in the core -
You need a min of 12 guys I think, so if you add 5 guys to minimum contract deals of 750k, thats 3.75 million for a total of 53.45 million. You can even add in Hump at 3 million and still hit the 56.5 million salary cap limit.
Unless my math is off, we just need to dump Yi on somebody. And we have a lot of future draft picks as incentives. I think this remains plausable.
Yup...
I’m actually surprised that Avery is waxing this much poetic about Favors because I was led to believe he was more of a Cousins-guy (maybe I was “duped” by Jerry and Andres). He just took a jab at Cousins by saying Favors doesn’t have any character issues.
OR Avery would like teams to think that
there is no conflict between what Avery is saying and what Thorn is saying, particularly if you want value back. Avery being wowed by him may increase his value as a chip, value that Thorn can maximize in a deal.
I still don't understand at this moment why we have to give anything very valuable away in a sign and trade
Isn’t it that the teams have no choice where the free agent goes? He could just as easily leave for absolutely nothing. Isn’t the team trading away the big star in no position to make any demands on what they get?
by muwu on Jun 25, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am leaning towards what you are saying.
I like CP3 but I really dont want to take a chance just because he MIGHT help us get Lebron.
Maybe Wes is just trying to help CP3 get out of New Orleans. the same way he was trying to get Cal a job back in the NBA. I really think the we are doing this is the RIGHT way.
Harris, Lee, Twill, Favors, Lopez is the RIGHT WAY.
I like Lebron but if he is going to DICTATE what we, the NETS, should do.
NO THANKS!!!!!
Exactly!!!
Lets add Rudy G to the mix of young talent and continue building
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Why all this talk about he “Might” be able to help us get Lebron. We can talk to Lebron in one week’s time. No tampering charges or anything. Lebron, what will it take to get you to come here. Chris Paul? We can do that.
If that is the case then we really arent getting Lebron
Wade has more of selling point NOW then CP3 would have.
Wade can tell Lebron – " You see what the celtics did with 3 stars. If YOU Come to MIAMI with Bosh and WE can control this for 10 yrs."
This talk about getting CP3 just to lure Lebron is BS!!!!!
I agree about the CP3 stuff being bs
But Wade, James and Bosh are different from the Pierce, Allen, and KG situation. Wade and Bosh need the ball in their hands. Allen just needs someone to set screens for him or would wait for the pass.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
True
I’m starting to wonder if its worth it, I wonder how many good years Staudamire has left, wouldn’t give him up for lee or Boozer, I don’t think management would. That leaves Bosh I am not that high on him, as well as Staudamire. HMMMM
i'll take Bosh and pay him...
…before any of the others. At least Bosh will bring something worthwhile on both ends of the floor. Stoudemire is an offensive beast but his defense and rebounding are god awful
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
and at least Bosh is only 26
with no extensive injury history
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
All this talk about getting CP3 to make a run at Lebron,
is really annoying me. I too prefer CP3 over Harris, but if lebron really wanted to come here, it has nothing to do with CP3.
People dont always get what they want. Either you want to play with what we have or you dont. That is the bottom line. That also goes for getting
Harris, Lee, Twill, Favors, Lopez is what we have NOW. Take it or Leave it. LET THE YOUNG GUYS PLAY!!!!!!!!
I don't prefer one legged CP3 over Harris
…and you guys know how down I am on Harris.
Personally I don’t think we should be trigger happy to trade Favors and maxing out Stoudemire or Boozer. Not a fan of either player. Especially Boozer.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
sign Kevin Pritchard..sign some undrafted players for summer league like
Harris, Torrence, Zoubek, Thompson etc
Off topic but...
…I’d like to say congratulations to Derrick Caracter of Scotch Plains/Fanwood, he was drafted by the Lakers last night at the end of the 2nd rd. I remember Derrick when he was younger, he used to come to the parks in the area to play against us older guys all the time, he had to have been like 12 years old but 6 foot 6 and uncoordinated as all hell lol. I ran into him a few years back at Pizza Brothers prior to his first year of college. He was always a nice kid so I was shocked to hear about the problems that he had over at Louisville. Looks like he got himself back on the right track, hopefully he can make the team. Good luck to him
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 25, 2010 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well there must have been something between an uncoordinated 12 year old and eating himself out of Louisville, as he was kicking Oden’s butt in 2004 (apparently) and holding his own against him in 2005:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGl0leJESkc
The problem seems to be that everyone thought he was going to be the next Shaq (him as well), and he never grew into it, both physically and emotionally. Its cool though that he has a chance with the Lakers, but I’m not sure he’s going to make the team.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jun 25, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
on ESPN radio
today I heard the hosts ripping the Knicks for passing on Ebanks who has been huge defensively in college. I’m not sure the Lakers have room for Caracter (Powell would have to leave), but Ebanks could be a very dangerous 20 min/gm addition to the rotation.
But maybe Caracter gets in shape.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jun 25, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
For the Cousins fans
Can you imagine, the Kings got Cousins and Whiteside. If Whiteside even remotely comes into form you can have
7`6" and 7’7" wingspans on the frontline, with Evans running around like a madman. Interesting.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
whitesides also apparently dumb
and a headcase
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Check List
Prudential Center CHECK
New Ownership(Proky) CHECK
New Coach(Avery Johnson) CHECK
Top Draft Pick 3rd(Derrick Favors) CHECK
Free Agency( Gay, Amare,Boozer,Lee ?)
In that interview w/ Francesa
Said that if we needed a C, he wouldn’t have hesitated and would have taken Cousins. So he’s basically admitting he drafted for fit, not BPA.
sorry
It’s Thorn who said that.
“If we had needed a center, I wouldn’t have hesitated to take him”.
He says Cousins is stone cold five.
Exactly, If we didn't have Brook, I'm pretty sure we take Cousins 100%. But that's the thing, we do have Brook
If Favors pans out, you get comparable talent but at the PF spot
no favors has no talent
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on NetsDaily
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
