Christie, Booker Hopeful for Third New York Area Team...in Newark
by Net Income on Jun 13, 2010 11:55 AM EDT
in Brooklyn
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PrintIn an interview with Steve Politi of the Star-Ledger, Gov. Chris Christie said he hopes the Nets will stay in Newark as long as possible but when they leave, he still thinks the New York area can handle three NBA teams. He notes he required the Nets to give up their territorial rights to the state as part of their deal to get out of the IZOD Center.
"I do think this area, if it had good teams, could support three teams," said the governor. "We support three teams in hockey. I don’t think there’s any reason we couldn’t support three in basketball. So if the Nets do leave — and I’m still waiting for that building to be built in Brooklyn, I’ll believe it when I see it — I think it’s something we should look at aggressively."
Christie also offered to help recruit LeBron James, that he's only waiting for a phone call from Rod Thorn.
Mayor Cory Booker offered much the same sentiment in an interview with Mike Ozanian on Fox Business' Sports Money: "This is a hockey city, yes, but this is a basketball city, heck yeah. When the Nets make their way to Brooklyn in two, three, maybe four years, depending on how long it takes to get built, we want to do what Oklahoma did and say wait a minute, this is one of the most lucrative areas for basketball."
- Politi: Gov. Chris Christie says he's ready to get involved in N.J. sports issues - Steve Politi - Star-Ledger
- Hockey's Influence in Newark (Video) - Michael Ozanian - FOX Business
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Political Talk!
The area does not support three hockey teams. One of them is losing money like crazy. Actually only one is profitable. The Nets are losing money like crazy. What is he talking about? NJ cannot support a team, especially if there are two other teams in the area! Go for a LaCrosse team or a Soccer team or a College team Booker.
No to Izod
but Prudential Center/ Newark would be perfect for a very well-run and well-marketed D-League team.
The Islanders and Devils
are losing money…the Islanders more than $30 million. The Devils are losing so much money that they haven’t paid a dime to the city in rent. And because in the NHL, the big bucks are in the playoffs, the early exit by the Devils and the failure of both the Rangers and Islanders to make the playoffs means no one is really in the money. The Rangers havent made the playoffs since the lockout. I believe the same is true of the Islanders.
I'd love that to be true, but...
The Rangers made the playoffs four straight years after the lockout. This is the first year they didn’t make it. They lost to the Flyers in a shootout on the last day of the season and missed the playoffs by one point.
The Flyers went to the finals and the Rangers went to the golf course.
Actually the Rangers
made the playoffs every year since the lockout until this season when they finished one point out and the Islanders made the playoffs in 2007. The Rangers are definitely making money and in Newark the Devils have at least given themselves a chance to make a profit. Still, I don’t envision another basketball team in New Jersey any time soon as New Jersey proved unable to compete with just the Knicks in New York and with the Prokhorov-led Nets in New York also the new New Jersey team would be even less successful.
The Legend
New Jersey Devils Income 2009-2010
I did a little research on the matter, and it appears that the New York Times recently (somewhat recently – right after they got bounced from the playoffs) did an article featuring the New Jersey Devils and the kind of revenue stream that they have recently brought in. Specifically, since the move to Newark in 2007, the team’s revenue has been boosted by about $15 million dollars. The team is still not profitable, but the margin between red and black is beginnning to shrink. With any kind of investment in a new stadium/arena, there will always be a large cost associated with it (The Giants/Jets offset the New Meadowlands Stadium cost by forcing their season ticket holders into Personal Seat Liscenses, for example…which blows). But the franchise has done much better overall since their move.
The writer also brings in the fact that the Prudential Center opened just as the recession took hold, which slowed ticket sales, sponsorships and development. It doesn’t help that the team hasn’t made it out of the first round since 2005 I believe. But the team sold out 18 games this season, compared to ten last year. They were able to fill 90% of their 2,300 club seats in 2009 as well. The additional foot traffic has helped to generate nearly $15 million economic activity and helped to create about 700 jobs in Newark. The Marriott is also opening a new hotel in September nearby.
In short, I believe the team has had success since opening in Newark since 2007 and the real gauge of whether the move was beneficial or not will be shown within the next couple of years, as the team A) begins to do better in the playoffs B) the country as a whole moves out of the recession. By the way, if anyone wants to read the pretty cool and well written article, please take a look over here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/sports/hockey/28devils.html
"We aim above the mark to hit the mark." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
NetsDaily posted this article a few months back.
And NI’s above statement refuses to take things like current circumstances into account. His argument is diningenuous at best, and certainly misleading. And he knows it.
NI points out that the Devils have been losing money while at the Rock. The Rock cost about $400 million to complete. Well, if a team in an arena that can support two teams isn’t making money (yet), imagine how Barclays would fare with a $1billion + price tag and no provisions for a NHL franchise. Two team arena are the key to turning a profit at these types of facilities. Losses would be entirely unsustainable at Barclays. In short, Barclays cannot be built because it will be forever in debt with no chance of ever crawling out.
In Rod We Trust
I've always felt.....
that we should have three or four NBA teams here in the East…..Why Not….Look at The West Coast……..They have Four…………….Two in New York…..One in New Jersey and One in Connecticut….Connecticut will draw fans from NY,NJ and Mass……I went to a pre-season game (Nets-Knicks) a few years back at the Harbor Yard arena in Bridgeport,Ct and it was sold out pretty fast……
The Nets lost $60 million last year
I’m not sure how much if anything the Knicks made. It used to be that the owners would make their money when they sold out. Teams always went up in value. No longer true.
A Connecticut team would be by its nature a small market team. Small market teams are getting killed.
Hey NI.....
What was the average Nets attendance this past season ??
California is pretty huge and spread out though
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Yeah but the west coast teams are spread out over 400 miles.
New Jersey, New York and Connecticut would be a 50 mile separation. Not gonna happen.
Remember, most of the pro Brooklyn people are saying that NJ couldn’t support the NBA with just the Knicks as a tri state rival. How are they going to do it with both the Knicks AND Nets?
Connecticut considers the Celtics to be their team.
New collective bargaining agreement is simple. Give small markets a larger share of the national tv revenue sharing pie, limit MLE's to teams under the lux tax threshold, allow owners to terminate one deal every other year provided players have played at least 3 years on it and limit raises to 5 and 10%
Actually Connecticut
considers UConn to be their team. CT by and large ignores the NBA except when you are up north near Hartford where there is some support for the team. Southern CT if polled would come out as largely Knicks fans just as they are Yankees fans in that part of the state.
All the more reason that there is no need for another NBA team in the region.
But when I said that Connecticut considers the Celtics to be their team, I was referring to Hartford as that’s where a team would most likely be placed in this VERY hypothetical scenario that would never happen in real life.
New collective bargaining agreement is simple. Give small markets a larger share of the national tv revenue sharing pie, limit MLE's to teams under the lux tax threshold, allow owners to terminate one deal every other year provided players have played at least 3 years on it and limit raises to 5 and 10%
3rd NY/NJ metro team...
I fully expect the Prudential Center will get a 3rd NBA team after the Nets move to Brooklyn, NY. The Kings & Bucks are relocation targets in the next 3 seasons, no questions about it. The new CBA will help the owners make more money this time around and keep them from swallowing poisoned contracts.
What makes New Jersey so interesting is that you have an owner of an arena who wants a 2nd tenant, the metro area can handle the 3rd team and could get on a network that needs Fall to Summer programming in SNY. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Devils owner gets an ownership group together and buys the Bucks (I just don’t see the Maloofs selling the Kings).
It’ll probably take 3 to 4 years but you have a Governor and Mayor that understand the importance of having 82 dates in a year filled for their arena while they can still do Seton Hall games and add Arena Football League team to their arena to fill up the dates that are not occupied by concerts, special events etc. But I think it’s going to the Milwaukee Bucks who relocate because there is no way that Milwaukee will build a new arena for the team.
Not Milwaukee
I think the Kings are holding out for league OK to move to Vegas.
The Bucks owner is Herb Kohl – US senator from Wisconsin – and a billionaire or near billionaire. The likelyhood of Herb pissing off his biggest metro area and moving the Bucks while he is the owner or selling to an owner who would move them is zero. You need to wait until he retires from politics.
I get that...
I already know Kohl’s situation, once he retires or passes away is what I’m referring to. Which is why I said 3 to 4 years. The Bucks will be open to the highest bidder. As for the Kings, they have simple options already setup, Las Vegas being option #1, Anaheim is option #2 and San Jose is option #3 for the Kings. But I guarantee you the Bucks will move before 2014-15 NBA season. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Kings moved to Anaheim and the Bucks to Newark because both areas can handle 3 NBA teams.
Not going to happen on Stern's watch.
Otherwise, the Grizzlies would’ve moved to Anaheim instead of Memphis. He has flat out said that he doesn’t want 3 teams in one single metro area. KC, Seattle and Vegas are first on the list before Newark or Anaheim unless it’s the Clippers who finally agree to move to Anaheim since that wouldn’t oversaturate the market into 3 teams.
New collective bargaining agreement is simple. Give small markets a larger share of the national tv revenue sharing pie, limit MLE's to teams under the lux tax threshold, allow owners to terminate one deal every other year provided players have played at least 3 years on it and limit raises to 5 and 10%
Wow...
trueblood, morph, etc… You guys with no merit continue to spew lies. David Stern has never said anywhere (I dare you to find a quote) that he wouldn’t allow 3 teams in one metro area. Anaheim became runner-up for the Grizzlies when Memphis guaranteed to build FedEx Forum. If its viable and an owner wants to move a team to Newark, David Stern will not stand in the way, the same goes for Anaheim, San Jose, etc.
He's saying a 3rd team in the region is unlikely
and I’m inclined to agree. There are other relocation targets that would come before Newark, just so that NBA teams are dispersed across the country more diversely. He didn’t say it was impossible, though.
In Rod We Trust
Re-read what I wrote. Morph more or less pointed it out.
I didn’t say “allow”. I said “want”. Big difference. If someone is hell bent on moving to Newark then it will happen but Stern would prefer it not happen. He’s already been called out by the New jersey posters as being a sellout to NJ. Having a 3rd team in the tri state area would just be worse than 2 and Stern has already said that the Nets aren’t supported well enough with just the Knicks as competition. It would be even tougher with the Knicks and Nets in NYC as competition to a New Jersey team.
New collective bargaining agreement is simple. Give small markets a larger share of the national tv revenue sharing pie, limit MLE's to teams under the lux tax threshold, allow owners to terminate one deal every other year provided players have played at least 3 years on it and limit raises to 5 and 10%
Actually, Anaheim was 4th.
Heisley wanted to move there but Stern talked him out of it. It came down to New Orleans, Memphis and Louisville. New Orleans got knocked out due to the lack of corporate money. Memphis had Fed Ex and Autozone while Louisville had the KFC naming rights lined up. Memphis won out.
New collective bargaining agreement is simple. Give small markets a larger share of the national tv revenue sharing pie, limit MLE's to teams under the lux tax threshold, allow owners to terminate one deal every other year provided players have played at least 3 years on it and limit raises to 5 and 10%
I bet Kohl does a Koffman (spelling)
Didn’t Ewing Koffman the long time Kansas City Royals owner put the team in some sort of trust that meant they are staying in KC. I could see Kohl preserving a Milwaukee legacy with something similar.
Without a New Arena...
I think the NBA would just shut the team down and start an expansion franchise in its place. If Kohl can’t get a new arena or heavily-renovated Bradley Center then the Milwaukee Bucks are as good as gone. If the Kings fail with this plan for a New Downtown Arena in Sacramento they’ll be good as gone as well. Plus you have to look at leases, Kings & Bucks can break their lease when they see fit as they’re on a year-to-year basis plus the Grizzlies, Hornets & Clippers have leases that expire in 2014.
Well, the Bradley Center is getting $5 million a year renovations.
Not sure if those will qualify as heavily renovated but it’s something until they hopefully get a new arena.
New collective bargaining agreement is simple. Give small markets a larger share of the national tv revenue sharing pie, limit MLE's to teams under the lux tax threshold, allow owners to terminate one deal every other year provided players have played at least 3 years on it and limit raises to 5 and 10%
Let's hope for the best
A new team in New Jersey would be the only thing that could ever help me recover from losing the Nets if it happens. Would at least have someone to root for in my favorite sport and someone to take on what would be my least two favorite teams in all of sports, the Knicks and the Brooklyn team.
Also like the sound of the Nets being in Newark for upwards of 4 years. As dire as the situation is now, 4 more years would be better than nothing although i’m still holding out hope for a long-term residence at the Prudential Center where the Nets could truly thrive in Jersey.
Expansions not easy for NBA
The NBA has a history of not allowing for expansion teams. It was only recent when the Bobcats were allowed to replace the Hornets. Vancouver and Toronto didn’t even get their NBA franchises until 1995 when having the Raptors and Grizzlies, who are now in Memphis. Meanwhile, the Honets, who are now in New Orleans, and Magic didn’t come until 1989 while the Heat and T’Wolves came in 1988. The Mavs didn’t come until 1980, while the Nets, Spurs, Pacers, and Nuggets were absorbed in 1976 when the ABA folded. My point is that there were a lot of gaps in between expansions for the NBA. There was once a time in the 1950’s when many thought that the NBA was going to fold for not allowing for more teams especially when a number of them have folded at that time, which is similar to what some say about the WNBA right now, though I doubt that league is going anywhere anytime soon, so sorry to you naysayers on that. Overall, the NBA has denied more expansions than allowed for it.
I was just referring to the fact...
That if Kohl put a clause in his will that the Bucks can’t be sold to people who wouldn’t keep them in Milwaukee, the NBA could side-step it but folding the franchise and given an expansion team to whoever is the group that wanted to relocate that team. Honestly I don’t see Kohl doing that because it’ll hurt his family when they sell the team. I think the Bucks are the next team to relocate followed by the Kings, after that I would look toward the Grizzlies opting out of their lease in 2014.
The two most important quotes from Christie's interview were:
1. “We support three teams in hockey. I don’t think there’s any reason we couldn’t support three in basketball. So if the Nets do leave — and I’m still waiting for that building to be built in Brooklyn, I’ll believe it when I see it (emphasis added) — I think it’s something we should look at aggressively.”
2. "Why the skepticism about Brooklyn?
Just the economy. I know they have lots of legal issues to get over — I know they’ve gotten over a number of them. This thing was supposed to be built already. I haven’t seen any steel go in the ground yet. I wish them all the luck, but we’re ready to host the Nets for the next two years. At least."
He would have more insider info than anyone on this site, no matter how much I can’t stand him as our new governor.
In Rod We Trust
LOL
Gov Christie is now the smartest man in the world
He knows more about Barclays than the people working on the project
Great way to end the weekend, Pal. You always know how to make me laugh.
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
I don't like Christie AT ALL
but to imply the Gov. of NJ would know less than anyone on NetsDaily or wouldn’t be getting briefings on a regular basis from other politicos and stakeholders on a situation that could very well influence if he is re-elected or not is rather hysterical.
You’re the best boss. Keep ‘em comin’!
In Rod We Trust
Actually, if he did say that, then its pretty obvious that he hasn’t been following the project nearly as much as the people here on NetsDaily have.
Economy? What’s that got to do with the construction going forward (which is already 100% financed)? Steel hasn’t gone on the ground, and we all know why. But it doesn’t have much to do with the economy.
I think he has more info than you give him credit for...
and the reason this arena hasn’t been constructed vertically yet IS because of the economy as much as protestors (and likely the economy is the primary reason). Keep in mind that what you hear in the media is not necessarily all there is to know. And after following this Brooklyn boondoggle for the past 7 years, I’ve learned to trust NOTHING FCR or Yormark or anyone associated with Ratner says on this issue.
Trust me: the NJ Governor is the one person who would have in-depth knowledge on this topic.
In Rod We Trust
I don't know
I would have to imagine that Gov. Christie is the least dialed in of all with regards to this.
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
i wouldn't be so sure
politicians often seem to be incredibly ignorant of sports.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
it also could just be pure political rhetoric.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I think it is that
I can’t imagine Christie being involved in what goes on with Barclays/Goldman/Onexim etc…
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
What is happening directly affects the 1 NBA team in his State
I would be highly surprised (and upset) as a Jersey if he didn’t know. It’s his job to know the particulars. And trust me when I say he most likely gets regular briefings from his staff who also have contact with their NY counterparts.
In Rod We Trust
I just don't see it
This is where we must agree to disagree.
I cannot see, any scenario where Gov. Christie knows more about this project/move than the people directly involved with it’s financing, planning etc.
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
I'm not saying he knows more, but I'm certain he gets regular updates
and has more than just a working knowledge on this topic. There’s more negotiation and discussion behind-the-scenes that we don’t know about and which will never be penned by journalists. I am certain there are discussions between his administration and Paterson/ Bloomberg. One of the things people may not realize is that there’s lots of horse-trading behind closed doors. Deals are to be made, and reputations need to be upheld. If (on the highly unlikely chance) the Nets move to BK, it is because Christie gave in but asked for something in return for his concession. Obviously, he wouldn’t want Jersey voters to hear about this, ‘cuz it would cost him votes, but that’s how these things work. That’s politics.
Lastly, if Christie questioned the economics of the deal in the SL article, it was for a reason, not because he’s ill-informed. Christie’s no dummy – just a bully and a jerk.
In Rod We Trust
I hope Newark can get an NBA team on a permanent basis. I’ll keep supporting the Nets until Newark gets a NBA team. I wish the Nets would stay but the owner wants to be in Brooklyn.
Maybe the Kings would be interested to move to Newark? Don’t they want a new arena.?
Newark Kings son…heh
Reminds me of the WTC site
I remember hearing lots of news on progress, but when I saw the actual site, there was pretty much nothing going on. They did say that there was going to be a groundbreaking back in 2004, but it turnned into a false start, and gave then-governor George Pataki a humiliation he would never forget. Even some progress can still mean anything. The foundation might be a good way above the ground there, but I still think that there is room for error, and one of those main things will be the cost. Honestly, I was never for the official plan, I was for Twin Towers II. The Freedom Tower and the other buildings cost so much because of the different floorplates that change on each floor, while the Reflecting Absense not only costs so much to build, but also to run, though it wouldn’t be running that much anyway, plus the station house costs so much just to build. I think the same here with the Atlantic Yards complex will be delayed to costs, which is why many will see it mostly as just the arena, one major building, and the rest as parking lots. Overall, Ratner is not out of the woods just yet. Maybe he should just build it over his estate out in Hampton Bay, which has been declared blighted according to the Huffington Post.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/10/bruce-ratner-drops-5-mill_n_607688.html
by Tal Barzilai on Jun 13, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Morph – still praying you are right. And waiting for somebody, anybody else to share that view to make me feel better about the prospects of this absurd project still failing.
What would happen then would all these “Brooklyn” fans come back and root for the Nets?
Honestly, I don't care if they come back or not. They wouldn't have supported the team in BK anyway.
Ratner and his cronies have pulled the wool over the eyes of these BK supporters. His PR team has done a great job of convincing people this project moves forward while actually getting very little done. This project was on life support before the economic collapse; it is now dead.
You won’t find many people agreeing with me, especially on this site. I’ve been following a Nets move for the past 12 years. I know what makes sense and what doesn’t after all of that time, and this is the WORST arena proposal I’ve ever heard of. It is a joke, and the only reason this project still holds valid in the public eye is because journalists haven’t challenged it’s MANY flaws. It’s a piece of garbage proposal that’s more about political grandstanding and regional posturing than it is about sports.
In Rod We Trust
you are absolutely right Morph – about how ridiculous the project proposal is and about how Ratner was able to con so many people into believing all of his lies and how about it was all but dead before Prokhorov and came in and saved the plans of this greedy pig. Most importantly about how so few in the media (except for Mike Lupica most notably) have bothered to question this project despite how obviously corrupt it is to everyone except Net Income and his followers on this site.
That being said with ground broken, everyone off the property and the financial backing of Prokhorov, I don’t see how this possibly could fall through now as much as I want it to. Realistically, I am hoping for more delays which could hopefully buy us another few years of the Nets on top of the two we are figuring on now.
Again – I hope you are right and that good days are ahead after all.
The only miracle I could see happening would be this.
The Nets make a huge splash in free agency this summer and the Rock gets sold out for the season before steel gets put in the ground in Brooklyn. Proky and Yormark realize that they will be financially well off and very profitable and figure that there is no use for a $700 million arena when they are selling out already for free. Ratner agrees as it’s the non arena stuff at AY that he has wanted all along anyways plus he’s not legally bound to the arena. He just needs to build the low rent housing.
Very , very , VERY longshot but it’s plausible.
New collective bargaining agreement is simple. Give small markets a larger share of the national tv revenue sharing pie, limit MLE's to teams under the lux tax threshold, allow owners to terminate one deal every other year provided players have played at least 3 years on it and limit raises to 5 and 10%
My hope is that Prokhorov realizes the team can be successful in Newark and that the new arena would not be financially profitable as many have speculated and he dumps Ratner like the piece of garbage he is. That is extremely unlikely to happen because the billionaire probably thinks he can add to his ridiculous amount of money if the entire AY project ever gets built which is also unlikely to happen.
Bottom line is the Nets have been used a real estate pawn since 2004 and they are still are. Only Net Income and his buddies here actually think this is good for the Nets when that could not be farther from the turth.
More or less what I was thinking
Although he won’t dump Ratner. He’s a business partner in AY as well so as long as that’s the case, he’ll be stuck wtih Ratner. What I’m thinking is that the 2 don’t have to be mutally exclusive. He can say that he wants to do AY and have his bball team in Newark. Cut the costs down by $700 million by not having to build Barclays.
Highly unlikely but until there is steel in the ground, anything is possible.
New collective bargaining agreement is simple. Give small markets a larger share of the national tv revenue sharing pie, limit MLE's to teams under the lux tax threshold, allow owners to terminate one deal every other year provided players have played at least 3 years on it and limit raises to 5 and 10%
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