NetsDaily Off-Season Report #9
We spend a lot of time on the Draft in this edition of NetsDaily's Off-Season Report, wonder as well if Johnson's hiring should be considered the (next-to-last) benefit of the Devin Harris for Jason Kidd trade, argue that the Nets did well with Johnson, compared to some of the others hiring new coaches, offer our Draft Sleeper of the Week, and warn that a top pick doesn't always mean a great player. We also try to read tea leaves on who the Nets liked in the group workouts, check out the help wanted pages at the NBA, get ready for some fisticuffs in Brooklyn and keep track of where individual Nets are sweating it out.
Every Sunday, we’ll be updating the Nets’ off-season with bits and pieces of information, gossip, etc. to help take the edge off missing the playoffs, relying on the Nets’ beat reporters and others who have slipped interesting stuff into larger stories and blogs...not to mention our own reporting.
The Coach
So should we add Avery Johnson to the Nets' side of the ledger in the (still incomplete) calculus of the Jason Kidd trade? Makes some sense. Johnson reportedly was against the trade, then famously didn't get along with Kidd and was fired after his second straight first round exit. Now, Johnson comes to New Jersey to be reunited with Devin Harris. It appears the Kidd-for-Harris trade is going to define the second rebuilding of the Rod Thorn era just as the Marbury-for-Kidd trade defined the first one.
As of now, the Nets' take from the February 2008 trade includes Harris, Keyon Dooling ($3.3 million trade exception plus $3 million in cash), Courtney Lee (via Ryan Anderson, selected with the Mavs pick in 2008) and whoever the Nets take with the #27 pick in the June 24 draft. If Johnson wants to re-sign Trenton Hassell, add him to the mix. As for cap savings, it's hard to suggest the trade saved the team cap space this summer. Kidd's contract ran out last summer. The real savings came from the Jefferson and Vince Carter trades. Their contracts, worth more than $33 million next year, form the basis of the Nets' cap space savings this summer...not Kidd's.
By now, everyone knows Johnson's positives and negatives, but considering what other teams have gotten in the coaching carousel this spring, the Nets have done pretty well. Tom Thibodeau is indeed a great defensive coach, but of his 29 years of coaching college and professional basketball--including stints with six NBA teams, he has been a head coach for one of those years, at Salem State. He is untested as a head coach. If the Cavs hire Tom Izzo, they too will have a great coach, but one who has never played or coached a minute in the NBA. Doug Collins is certainly a talent, but he passed on a number of opportunities over the years and the question has to be: how much is likely to leave on the court in this gig. Finally, there's Larry Drew with the Hawks, who seems to have been hired more for his familiarity with the Atlanta roster and a willingness to become one of the NBA's lowest paid coaches.
Speaking of which, there seems to be some confusion as to how Johnson is going to be paid, and by which billionaire. Tim MacMahon ESPN Dallas wrote this week that whatever the Nets are paying AJ will be deducted from the $4 million Mark Cuban still owes him for next season. Dave D'Alessandro seems to suggest that the Nets aren't paying Johnson that much, that indeed Cuban is picking up most of the tab. Johnson's contract, both agree, has the standard offset clause, which reduces the liability of the coach's old team by the amount he's paid by his new team. If indeed Dave D is correct, and Johnson works out, the next "Thank You, Cuban" chant could be in Russian since Mikhail Prokhorov will be saving some serious bucks.
No guarantees in the Lottery...or Even the Top Four
We did an analysis of how well teams that picked in the top four have done in the past decade. While there are all-stars and an occasional future Hall of Famer, there are also busts and flame-outs. The Nets have a great pick, but as the analysis shows, that doesn't always translate into great or even good players.
We went year by year, starting in 2000, looking at the top four in each draft, subjectively determining who was a success, measured by all-Star selection early on or some other criteria in recent years. We also, again subjectively, name the best player in each draft.
2000 - Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, Marcus Fizer. Of those four, only one is still in the league: Martin. He's also the only All-Star, named in 2004. It's fair to call the rest of the group monumental busts. Best player in that draft: Michael Redd, selected at #43.
2001 - Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol, Eddy Curry. The supposedly great big man draft produced only one great big man: Gasol. He's also the only All-Star in that group, named in 2006, 2009 and 2010. Of the others, only Chandler has had a couple of good years but he's been injury prone. Best Player in the Draft: Gasol
2002 - Yao Ming, Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy, Drew Gooden. Same thing here. One all-star: Yao, named in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009, thanks in large part to China's vast fan base. Williams is out ot the league, Dunleavy has never matched expectations and has been hurt. Gooden seems likely to match or succeed the record for most teams played for. Best Player in the Draft: Amare Stoudemire, selected at #9.
2003 - LeBron James, Darko Milicic, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh. A great draft with the exception of Darko. James, Anthony and Bosh named to the all-star team a combined 14 times. James has been MVP twice. Best Player in the Draft: James
2004 - Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Shaun Livingston. None of the top three can be faulted, although Okafor hasn't produced as much as expected after his first year. Livingston's horrific string of injuries has denied him any semblance of a career. Howard and Gordon have been named to the all-star team a combined six times. Howard has been Defensive Player of the Year twice and Gordon was named Sixth Man of the Year as a rookie. Best Player in the Draft: Howard.
2005 - Andrew Bogut, Marvin Williams, Deron Williams, Chris Paul. Bogut finally started to come into his own in his fifth season, making the All-NBA third team and All-Defensive second team. Prior to that, he was seen as a disappointment, at least compared to the #3 and #4 picks. Marvin Williams is a decent player but nothing special enough to warrant where he was taken. Deron Williams and Paul, on the other hand, have made the all-Star game a total of five times and the All-NBA team a total of four times. Best Player in the Draft: Deron Williams by a hair over Paul.
2006 - Andrea Bargnani, LaMarcus Aldridge, Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas. Bargnani and Aldridge are decent player. Thomas is a head case and Morrison is a bust...but might have two rings by week's end. No all-star apperances for any of them, the only top four other than the current rookie class, not to have an All-Star. Best Player in the Draft: Brandon Roy, selected at #6.
2007 - Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Al Horford, Mike Conley. Oden is very close to being declared a bust because of his numerous injuries and mediocre production when healthy. Durant, on the other hand, looks to be a top 5 player. Horford is a solid contributor, Conley is trade bait. Durant and Horford both made the All-Star game for the first time in 2010. Best Player in the Draft: Durant.
2008 - Derrick Rose, Michael Beasley, O.J. Mayo, Russell Westbrook. Beasley is a talent but he's being marketed by the Heat because of his off-court issues, which are many and varied. The rest of the group are solid NBA players in a first round filled with solid NBA players. Rose made the All-Star team in 2010. Best Player in the Draft: Since we have a conflict of interest , we'll go with David Thorpe's selection: Brook Lopez, taken at #10. Heh-heh.
2009 - Blake Griffin, Hasheem Thabeet, James Harden, Tyreke Evans. It's too early to say much, but when was the last time the overall #1 didn't play a minute and the overall #2 was assigned to the D-League? How about never. Harden played well in spurts but wasn't even the third best player at his position in the draft. Best Player in the Draft: Evans...so far.
Bottom line: of the 40 players taken in the top four spots in the last decade, a little less than half are disappointments, due to either injury, off-court issues or simply a lack of NBA talent. Maybe Oden and Griffin will recover and dominate. Maybe Thabeet will find his way. Maybe Beasley will get it together. Marvin Williams is likely to muddle along, too, but the bottom line for him and too many of them is that more was expected. On the other side of the ledger, there are anywhere from five to ten future Hall of Famers too. And if you're looking for hope that a deep pick could turn into the best player in the draft, consider this: in the 1999 and 2000 drafts, the best players were taken at #58 (Manu Ginobili) and #43 (Michael Redd). Hasn't happened since though.
Draft Sleeper of the Week
We prefer to look for players that rise late, rather than think players who are falling are "bargains". Rarely works. When a player drops precipitously, it usually means a physical or mental red flag. The more they fall, the more like the flag is large and a very bright red.
One fast-riser is Darington Hobson, the 6'7" swingman from New Mexico. He's blessed with a high BBIQ and an ability to play three positions, starting with the point. As Ben Couch of the Nets staff pointed out, he did very well. "Darington Hobson (New Mexico) also earned praise for taking advantage of situations where athleticism could be neutralized (READ: 'halfcourt sets'." Others pointed out that the athleticism he "neutralized" was named Stanley Robinson of UConn, who he reportedly dominated.
Hobson has someone from the Nets in his corner, Terrence Williams who he worked out with in Las Vegas last summer. Hobson called Williams "the most down-to-earth, goofiest, funniest guy in the world." Couch noted that the two have kept in touch throughout the draft process, with "Williams recommending the Nets after a strong finish to his rookie season".
In interviews, Hobson comes across as fairly down-to-earth himself.
Trying to Read Between the Lines
Tom Barrise and Bobby Marks had big roles in the NBA groups workouts this week and Gregg Polinsky made himself available for interviews. Listening to Barrise and Polinsky on njnets.com, a couple of things came across. Maybe it's spin, but there were some interetsing comments. They seemed to like the aforementioned Hobson; Gani Lawal, the 6'9" power forward from Georgia Tech; Thomas Heurtel, the 6'3" point guard from France; and Brian Zoubek, the 7'1" center from Duke. Not saying they'll draft any of them, but they seemed to catch the attention of the Nets' brain trust.
A couple of years ago, we thought we noticed some interest in Jaycee Caroll, the undersized shooting guard from Utah State. Indeed, the Nets tried to buy a late pick to take him and when that didn't work out, they invited him to the summer league. (If the Nets want to buy a second round pick this year, it will be pricey. Chris Sheridan of ESPN reports they are going for $1.5 million. That's ten times what the Nets got in 2002 for the rights to Kyle Korver, a real bargain for the 76ers.)
Help Wanted
We were intrigued by this help wanted ad on the NBA's teamwork online site, the league's employment site. It's for "Executive Assistant/Office Manager to the President - New Jersey Nets/Onexim Sports and Entertainment (New York, NY)" It's accompanied by a logo from Onexim not the Nets. Irina Pavlova is the president of Onexim Sports and Entertainment. Her main job, it's been reported, is to be Mikhail Prokhorov's liaison with Forest City Ratner on the construction of Barclays Center. It's also been reported that she's building a team and opening an office for Onexim in midtown Manhattan. This looks to be one of the first hires. Standards are high: the assistant must be fluent in Russian as well as English.
What we were wondering is this: is she also "President" of the Nets. The ad makes it appear that way. In the Nets complicated management structure, Prokhorov is "principal owner", Christophe Charlier, the French banker who is deputy CEO of the Moscow-based Onexim Group, is "chairman of the board" of the team. Both those titles were held by Bruce Ratner before May 13. Brett Yormark is "Chief Executive Officer" of Nets Basketball and "President, & CEO, Brooklyn Sports & Entertainment", the arena management company. Rod Thorn is listed as "President" of the Nets, but that has been considered short-hand for "President of Basketball Operations". Pavlova doesn't appear on the front office roster which has been twice updated in recent weeks, once to include Prokhorov and Charlier and once to add Avery Johnson. One thing is for certain: while Yormark and Thorn remain in East Rutherford, Pavlova will be presiding over an office in midtown.
FYI, it does appear that Prokhorov will be at the Johnson press conference on Tuesday. He flies in from Moscow Saturday, then heads to Boston for the Finals Sunday to meet with Johnson. We expect ABC will want at least some access to him so we'll be watching.
Boxing at Barclays
The Daily News ran an article Saturday on Bob Arum, the now 78-year-old boxing promoter and his plans for the near and distant future. In the latter category, Arum talked about how he wants to bring boxing back to Brooklyn, specifically the Barclays Center. Barry Baum, Yormark's press spokesman (officially, Vice President of Business & Entertainment Communications), didn't comment on Arum's plans but admitted, ""We've had conversations with numerous boxing promoters given our interest in bringing boxing back to Brooklyn. We think boxing at the Barclays Center makes great sense."
The Nets have talked about a wide variety of events that could fill the 220 dates it has open, including boxing...and even UFC matches. In the marketing analysis for Barclays Center, issued last fall, a consulting company discussed everything from indoor lacrosse and arena football to "non-tenant" events like "wrestling, rodeos, monster truck shows, motocross races, extreme sports, figure skating, and tennis." It didn't mention boxing for some reason. Off course, the Nets have already contracted with a college sports booking agency to lure NCAA basketball games away from the Garden to Barclays. Still, the very optimistic analysis projected no more than 20 to 30 sporting events beyond the Nets in Brooklyn every year.
Final Note
David Thorpe of ESPN reports that two Nets are working out this month at his Pro Training Center in Clearwater, FL. Yi Jianlian who normally works out in L.A. is already on hand and Courtney Lee is headed there. It's that time of year for NBA players: moving from rest and recovery to individualized workout regimens aimed at improving skill sets. Yi has already said he wants to work on his defense, rebounding and getting open.
Oh yeah, one other thing: Hey Tony, we always liked Bobby Bacala better anyway.
0 recs |
67 comments
|
Comments
Nope
Kenyon Martin was still the best player in that draft.
yep
KMart was the best player out of that draft, and it’s not even close. He was a KEY player on a team that made it to the Fainls back2back, and has made another CF appearence with the Nuggets, will being their D’s anchor, Karl calls him their quarterback.
Nice No. 9
Nice wrap-up, NI, and great work pulling together the top four draft picks in each of the past 10 years to show what a crap shoot the draft can be.
didnt i just post this...
i posted a very similar fanpost listing the top 5 picks form the last ten yrs a few days ago….
Don't give Thorn credit
The K-Mart pick was a good one.
Let’s just remember Antoine Wright.
don't take away his credit
Antoine Wright was a flame out
Let’s just remember Michael Jordan.
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Jun 14, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
how about Zoran Planinic, Viktor Khryapa
and lets not even talk about our second round picks.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
GREAT POINT.....
that you made with the Jason Kidd-Devin harris trade scenario…..Let’s hope that Avery and Devin pick up where they left off starting with Game # 1…….
Small Fowards
haven’t done too well. Darius Miles, Mike Dunleavy, Marvin Williams, Adam Morrison and maybe even Beasley have all been bigtime dissappointments. Wesely Johnson kind of fits that mold. I still say Favors. If the bottom for Favors is Horford or Okafor I’d be happy with that.
I'm confused
Are you suggesting that generally speaking, small forwards are bad so we shouldn’t get one? I’ve got problems with that concept. Keep your day job.
You're right you ARE confused
Concept being that in the related material that NI provided with regard to SF’s that have been drafted in the top 4 since 2000, NONE have done what has been expected. So, with that information I would draft one of the quality bigmen instead of a SF with a top 3 pick. Was that hard to understand? Did I say we shouldn’t have a SF on the team? I would much rather go grab a proven one in free agency.
Lebron, Durant, Carmelo???
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Gina's point below clearly proves
your point was pointless, and just because many other GMs miscalculated their choices of SFs is no reason for Thorn to get cold feet.
Wes Johnson has ZERO in common with Darius Miles, Michael Beasley and Marvin Williams coming into the draft. Although you could put him into the same “good citizen with good college credentials” category as Morrison and Dunleavy, their games are totally different.
And, as for grabbing a proven one in free agency, who are you referring to? There are MANY excellent PFs available…. not so much with SFs
Paul George
Or they should move up in the draft and get Paul George!!! The Nets wouldn’t have to burn the third overall pick on him, and his skill sets/upside fits PERFECTLY with the Nets- silky smooth, unlimited range, good wingspan, excellent athleticism, solid defender, guard-like handles, and great upside. It will take some serious wheeling and dealing to get another lotto pick, though, and Paul George, right now, is very thin.
Or they can have another developmental year and wait for next year’s draft (which will be loaded with SF- Harrison Barnes, Perry Jones, Terrence Jones, Kyle Singler, among others)
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 13, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
it also depends on what happens with the cba
if a lock out seems imminent none of those guys are coming out, well except the seniors. I’m also not convinced Harrison Barnes will come out. Roy Williams is pretty adamant about not recruiting one and done players, Wall is from Raleigh and wanted to go to UNC and was practically committed until UNC backed out.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Thats true...
…but if Barnes is still the consensus first pick (or even top five pick) by the end of next year’s tourney, he’s going to come out (as of now, he’s head and shoulders above any other prospect in next year’s draft). Even without Barnes, Perry Jones III and Terrence Jones are definite one-and-done prospects, and if Barnes doesn’t declare, it will be because John Henson (another UNC SF) made the starting lineup and if that’s the case, Henson will probably declare.
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 13, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
???
Henson is a 6-11 pf/center if you’re talking about John Henson. Lol I go to UNC trust me I know about their basketball team. Henson also has almost no chance of declaring unless he has a complete revelation during the off-season he’s way way way too small at this point. Will Graves is going to play sf, unless you mean Barnes will play pf.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
John Henson
John Henson a PF/C??? Its true that he’s 6-11, but he’s also 200lbs. He’s NOT going to play PF/C in the NBA. In college he can get away with playing the 4 or 5, but I’m talking about NBA positioning (draftexpress says that he’ll play PF, but I really don’t see that happening). It’s true that he’s waay tooo skinny right now, but I’m only speaking in the scenario where Barnes doesn’t make the starting lineup for UNC. If Barnes does, has a decent year, and UNC does well at the tourney, Barnes WILL declare. If not, Jones III, Terrence Jones, and even Kyle Singler could be options. My point is that like last year’s draft was full of PGs and this year’s draft is full of PFs, next year’s draft will be full of franchise SFs
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 14, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
And Ed Davis was just as skinny as Henson when he came out
and is being projected to pf. Henson isn’t going to play sf anywhere, if he can’t put on weight then he likely just won’t stick in the NBA.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Henson v. Davis- Different Skill Sets
I was talking about UNC, but when I said Henson was a UNC SF, I meant a F from UNC that would play SF in the NBA. Ed Davis and John Henson have COMPLETELY different skill sets. Henson’s skill set is more like Anthony Randolph (have very similar meaurements). Randolph is a combo SF/PF, but anyone that’s seen him play would agree that his more natural position is SF. Same with Henson. Ed Davis, on the other hand, reminds me more of a slightly thicker Brandan Wright.
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 14, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice read
I appreciate the rare opportunity to do some casual reading on the team. All this forum posting will eventually drive me crazy!
Oden is a bust already there's no way he recovers.
He’s just outplayed every single night, biggest bust since Kwame Brown.
Also Adam Morrison shouldn’t be considered a bust, he showed some promise in his rookie season then got injury and traded to the Los Angeles Lakers where he never really got a chance, look at what happened to Boki Nachbar and Mikki Moore when they got a chance to show their games.
Interesting enough the fact that, aside from 2003 and 2008, the first pick was always a big that turned out to be a bust, the other picks were used to select Lebron and Derrick Rose, will the trend continue with Wall?
Great post!
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
Oden can actually play well when on the court it's just that he can't stay on there
He could’ve led the league in offensive rebounding percentage. Had the Blazers in the top five in defense through November. Shot a high percentage. Drew double teams. Passed.
He fouled, but that’s a work in progress. Just ask Howard.
People want to focus on the negative, because it’s trendy, because writers with loud voices and lots of readers do, too. They want to focus on Oden getting jammed on by Joakim Noah and Derrick Rose on Nov. 23, but not on him challenging those dunks, or destroying Noah on the offensive glass, causing Noah, respected now by so many for his rebounding, to earn a technical out of frustration. They forget that Oden got them back, patiently, with hook shots and rebounds.
It’s just so easy to pile on because that hook shot isn’t polished, even though he shot 52 percent in post-ups, better than Andrew Bogut (43 percent) and just below Howard (53). It’s easy to roll your eyes when he commits an offensive foul or gets stripped by a guard, less so to applaud boxing out and defensive positioning.
The reason you can’t lean on him right now is the same reason you can’t lean on Yao Ming, injuries
Yeah but is that really any better than what Kwame does?
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
Really? Kwame Brown was in no way a great defensive or offensive big
Brown’s best year was 11 ppg 7 rpg 0.7 bpg in 30 minutes a game. Oden managed 11, 8.5 and 2.3 in 23 minutes a game last year.
Not to mention that was only Oden's 2nd year playing in the league
His 13 point 20 rebound 4 block game against Miami was far superior to anything Kwame has ever done
I don't see him being a dominant, maybe a good role player.
Production wise, he does the same things as Kwame.
His 13 point 20 rebound 4 block game against Miami was far superior to anything Kwame has ever done
Those are only spurts where he shows his potential, nothing consistent enough, just like Yi’s occasional scoring outbursts.
Also Kwame’s carrer highs on points and rebounds are 30 and 19 respectively.
Not worth a first selection!
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
…. You mean to tell me that, in retrospect, knowing what we know now, that you think Adam Morrison WASN’T a bust at #3? And your argument for that is the “success” of Boki Nachbar and Mikki Moore?! WHAT?!?!
by JohnFromLongIsland on Jun 12, 2010 10:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My argument is that he didn't really got a chance to show his game since his rookie season.
Come on, there’s ups and downs with everyone, look at Terrence, what really screwed his development was his injury.
I remember him killing the Nets with his shooting in his rookie season.
He needs to be on a team where he will be given the chance to play.
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
Realiy for comment: "Olden is a bust already
How do you explain his results when he was on the court?
Oden was the 8th most efficient qualified player in the NBA last year.
Oden’s had a 23.14 PER (Hollinger’s Player Efficiency Rating)
He was ahead of Nowitzski and Gasol.
I loves Brooke’s play at center but he was listed at 27th and only had a 20.11 PER
PER defined as “The PER sums up all a player’s positive accomplishments, subtracts the negative accomplishments, and returns a per-minute rating of a player’s performance.”
by spencerbutte on Jun 12, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
brook plays seasons
You will have ups and downs during a season….Oden plays in 10 game spurts, Lesser likelihood of screwing up!
by Casiano's Evil Twin on Jun 14, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
A big that always turned out to be a bust?
Not Dwight Howard and Yao Ming
Yeah, sorry.
Forget what I said about that, desn’t make much sense!
for the right of watching tv broadcasted nets games...
Domnique Jones
I’ve been pushing for the Nets to trade up and get Paul George, but if they maintain the 27th/31st pick (more likely scenario), I would actually like them to seriously consider Dominique Jones. I saw a lot of him as USF, and he’s a streaky shooter (lit up Providence for 46 points) that has range (albeit inconsistent jumper), and I love this guy’s work ethic, physique, tenacity, and mentality. He is relentless at driving to the hoop, and can absorb contact easily with his frame and fairly long wingspan. He proved that he was a prolific scorer in the toughest conference in college basketball. He’s also very mature for his age, and was an effective leader on the USF team, that essentially leaned on him for offense.
That said, if the Nets do draft another small guard, it would simply mean that there would be, in my opinion, too many players for two positions on the court (Harris, Lee, TWill, CDR). D. Jones would not solve that problem. D. Jones also had an inconsistent jumper, with limited elevation in college, and as we saw last year, the Nets DESPERATELY need some people that can spread the floor. Despite being a junior, I think Jones still has solid upside as a prospect, and because of his work ethic, and his good shooting mechanics, I think he can develop a consistent jumper at the next level. Overall, I think he would be a legit choice and a bit of a steal at either 27 or 31.
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 13, 2010 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
we need a reliable jumpshooter off of the bench
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Jun 13, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I hear ya mr. db...
…but after 20, there are NO reliable jumpshooters in the draft (except Willie Warren). That’s really why I think the Nets should try to move up and get George. At 27 though, Dominique Jones would be a solid pick (when his jumpshot working, he generally explodes offensively).
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 13, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
stanley robinson!
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
What???
Stanley Robinson is a freak athlete and good shot blocker, but by no means has a reliable jumpshot. He gets most of his points by playing close to the basket and above the rim.
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 13, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
he has a great jump shot
he just doesn’t take many of them because he never had too. But there’s plenty of reason to think he’ll be a reliable shooter on the NBA level he has the range.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Huh???
Are we talking about the same Stanley Robinson? He was a 62.9% FT shooter in college, had the SECOND WORST Shooting percentage at the shooting combine at 47%, and a 0.87 PPP in college. His FG% is slightly inflated because he was an excellent transition player; however, he won’t be able to spread the floor in the NBA.
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 14, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
what does free throw shooting have to do with anything
On the offensive end, Robinson has re-found his three-point shot, which fell off the face of the earth last season (3-for-23 from behind the arc). He’s shooting a career-high 45.5% from three, and although it’s just on 1.1 makes per game, it’s not difficult to project him developing into a reliable spot-up three-point shooter in the NBA. Robinson’s form when spotting up in rhythm is pretty good, though things break down severely when he’s moving or has a hand in his face, as he has tendencies to not hold his follow through, not square his shoulders to the basket, and just not get proper balance, leading to many errant misses and much decreased efficiency.
the difference is no one’s going to expect him to be trying to create his own jump shot in the NBA. He’ll be a spot up shooter, which is where he excels, that and transition.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Not convinced...
Look at the best free through shooters in the league-Steve Nash, Dirk, Ray Allen, Chauncey Billups, Durant, Curry. What do they all have in common? They are all excellent jump shooters.
Don’t get me wrong, I really do like Stanley Robinson’s game- the freakish athleticism, the rebounding, playing above the rim; however, from a skill set perspective, I really don’t think he fit the Nets. If the Nets are looking for spot-up shooters at the SF position in this draft, I honestly believe they would prefer Damion James or Quincy Pondexter, who BOTH had better PPP numbers on the perimeter than Robinson (granted that Robinson has improved in that department)
DraftExpress is only ONE resource about prospects, and Joseph Treutlein (the guy that wrote that excerpt) had Manny Harris ranked above Evan Turner last year in terms of prospects, so yes…they do get some calls wrong.
If the Nets draft Robinson, I really wouldn’t mind, but at this point, everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. I really think that they should either stay at 27 and 31 and draft a back-up PG/SG and C, or move up and get Paul George.
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 14, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what...
..I’m wrong. I really wouldn’t mind if the Nets drafted S. Robinson at 27/31. I’m still not convinced possesses a “great jumpshot,” but with Avery Johnson, I really think that Robinson can really reach a lot of his potential playing under him. As long as Robinson improves everyday, and stays within himself, I think he will be a more that serviceable role player on a winning team. He would be a VERY solid pick at 27/31.
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 16, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
…and a spot starter/ energy role player…
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 16, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
draft
I think the Nets should take the kid from Butler with their first pick, his name escapes me at this moment.
Such a compelling argument, lol.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
Now he is certainly a possibility.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
"Howard and Gordon have been named to the all-star team a combined six times"
Hahahaha!
Howard is a four-time all-star. Gordon is a zero-time all-star.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
Oden was playing well but you can disegard last season stats because of the small sample size. Its questionable he could keep it up ove 82 games considering this is a guy who has neve come close to playing 82 games. What with only college having full season and being injured the rest. Argument works both ways and you can’t point to last seasons stats as anything other than a nice stretch of games. And yes injuries matter, being out for a good deal of you second year and pretty much all of your fist and third not only hurts playe devolpment, experiance and forces you to focus on rehab rather than improving your game. But durability is a n important factor when it comes to being an nba player.
+1
Upside means nothing if the player is injured.
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 13, 2010 8:52 AM EDT reply actions
well it also depends on the cost
if it’s at a low cost then taking on the injury risk for the upside might be worth it.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Oden
I mean, as a perceived franchise/potential HOF player coming out of college, I’d say the cost vs. injury risk assessment was pretty high. I really don’t blame the Trailblazers for taking him though (I also underestimated his injury situation, and after Oden’s performance in the championship like most people, I thought he would dominate the NBA and be much better than Durant).
by UltimateNetsFan on Jun 13, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
ooooh
i wasn’t sure what you were talking about. In nearly any other draft year I might agree you can’t blame the blazers, but I can’t at all comprehend why they took him over Durant, since his injury troubles were apparently known to them before the draft.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
BIG,BIG,MEN......
I’m sure that there are alot of talented Small Forwards coming out of this draft but……………………….The Nets need Size and Strength along with talent….Stanley Robinson of Uconn is 6’8" but he is a very good rebounder ….I’ll settle for him or someone his size who has keen rebounding abilities but…………….We really should go as BIG as possible……6’10" and up……..GO NETS !!!!!!!!!!!!!
he was also out played
by the guy from USF… in their workouts, and i read it was repeatedly outplayed!
you mean the guy from New Mexico
the guy from New Mexico is a great ISO player, but he’s not going to be good enough to do it at NBA levels and he’s not going to be good enough for teams to put the ball in his hands consistently. He’ll be a star for some team in Europe while Robinson will likely be a really good role player in the NBA.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
1. Oden blunder was clear from the get go...
One man, depite the injuries loved and wantd terribly to play basketball. The other did not. That was a horrendous mistake by Blazers.
2. I find it interesting that Hobson and TWill are soooo pushing to be on the same team, when they play the same position (or three). wink.
3. I’d really like to see the Nets…
trade take the #3 pick and either #27 or #31 and get something a little higher and a little lower. Or keep 3 and package the latter two picks to slide up a few slots for the 2nd pick.
- Paul George, Gregg Monroe, JaJuan Johnson…there’s a lot of guys in the 5 to 18 slots that would go better for our reconstruct and add free agent plan.
I just think there is a very inflated hype situation with the top 1-5 picks: Wall, Cousins, Favors, Johnson. I just think they’ve all been inflated for the sake of something to talk about.
wait what are you saying in your first point?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by 










