Will Liberty Join Nets in Newark?
The Nets aren't getting a WNBA team, but Newark might. The Times is reporting that the New York Liberty is considering a temporary move to Newark's Prudential Center next summer. Madison Square Garden, home of the Cablevision-owned Liberty, is being renovated and the Liberty will need to find new digs starting in 2011 and perhaps extending through 2014. The 18,000-seat Rock is a leading candidate.
about 2 years ago
Net Income
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From what I understand
this may be a 2 year hiatus as well. The Garden is supposed to get renovated over the next two summers. If it puts buts in the seats and fills the coffers for Newark, then I’m all for it.
Frankly, it doesn’t make sense to renovate the Garden. They may as well start from scratch on an open plot of land elsewhere (like next to CitiField) so that they can add suites and club seats and restaurants and not have to kick teams/ events out for an entire summer (or more).
What you propose...
Would require them to either leave the borough of Manhattan and require fans to travel an additional amount of time, or use eminent domain to free up some space for a new arena.
I wonder who would win in a ‘09-’10 Nets/Liberty game…
by JohnFromLongIsland on May 6, 2010 1:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not necessarily
well, Manhattanites would have to travel further by train or subway, but eminent domain shouldn’t be necessary. It has been applied in a heavy-handed fashion for Barclays Center, but they should be able to purchase part of the surface parking lot at Citifield outright to build an arena from the ground up. Land is MUCH cheaper b/c there are no individual landowners/ property owners to deal with. That also equals lower overall construction costs.
They are building new suites/club seats
in fact I think the # is 58 (reported in SBJ)
that will be added to the first 20 rows of the arena…
Plus 20 “bunker” suites
-Say man when I was growing up we wanted a Jacuzzi, we had to fart in the tub.
Building an arena from the ground is almost always cheaper
than doing a gut rehab. That is why you rarely see old arena getting a major facelift, unless they are historic landmarks or are owned by the fans (in the case of the Green Bay Packers). Plus, new facilities can be designed to meet the needs of the ownership. If ownership wants more luxury suites, club seats and restaurants, then they can have them at a lower cost than undergoing a $500MM rehab, which is what I believe the Garden rehab will cost. Also, there would be no need to shift some of the acts/ teams/ events to other facilities in the interim. That obviously creates a situation where the Garden will lose money while undergoing the renovation.
At the end of the day, ownership gets more bang for its buck by building new.
The Knicks
wanted to build a new arena one block west, permitting it to tear down the old Garden and replace it with office towers. However, the plan was too audacious for the city, Amtrak and federal authorites. Also, don’t forget the Bloomberg administration has not forgiven the Knicks for financing the anti-Jets Stadium plan, the cornerstone for the city’s Olympic bid.
Which is one of many reason the city would want the Knicks to relinquish control of the Garden
Also, the Knicks haven’t paid taxes at the Garden for a very long time. That facility was tax-exempt for over 20 years. Not sure if it stiill is (don’t think so), but I guarantee the city would make money money by allowing a private developer come in and build on that site.
MSG is a historic landmark (eben though not the original). The building of these new arenas has been the death of sports in my opinion. All the great buildings are gone when they could have been renovated. it is a travesty that kids growing up today will not get to see a game at the Boston Garden, Chicago Stadium, the Montreal Forum etc etc. All these new arenas have to offer is luxury and wine and cheese for people so rich they could care less what actually is going on down there on the court or ice. It’s a pathetic and I never advocate the building of a new arena unless absolsutely necessary. I would rather see them renovate an old building 9 times out of 10 and keep all that history and tradition preserved.
As far as the Nets go, they want not just ONE but TWO new arenas!!! It is completely obsence especially considering the financial climate these days. They got what they wanted which was out of the Meadowlands – now be happy you have this new arena in Newark and give up on this billion dollar scam in Brooklyn already.
Building two additional arena in one region doesn't make sense in a good economic environment, either
let alone, a recession.
Nope
In spite of the building of six new stadiums and arenas—New Yankee Stadium, CitiField, Giants/Jets Stadium, Red Bull Stadium, Prudential Center and Barclays Center—the New York metropolitan area has fewer seats per person than several other metro areas, including Los Angeles. Its size permits the growth. Also, most of that growth is replacing older and in some case, antiquated facilities. Charles Wang of the Islanders may have a problem since he will be the last one in the pool, but the willingness of investors to buy up the construction bonds speaks well of the future.
The people who purchased the $511 million in construction bonds for Barclays (in two hours) aren’t throwing their money down the drain. They believe the projections put forth by the Nets…and invested accordingly. That may have surprised some people, but not those who actually invest for a living.
With all due respect, you are incorrect
The issue isn’t the size of the region. We all know how large and wealthy this region is. Sports economists will tell you that the issue is there aren’t enough acts/ events/ team sports to go around to justify having so many venues. Only so many people will come to see most high school sporting events, as well as some college team sports. B-ball is often one of the exceptions. Pro teams are limited in number for a reason. How many one-hit wonder rock groups can be revived to fill up an arena, let alone the current “flavors of the month”? How many circuses or ice shows can one have in a region to fill up an arena on a nightly (or semi-nightly) basis? Keep in mind that renting out one of these venues isn’t cheap, so you want groups and events that GUARANTEE a large, ticket-paying crowd.
Another thing you fail to take into account is that because this region is so large and wealthy that there are other ways people can spend their entertainment dollar. It can go toward Broadway shows, musea, niche shopping, tours, expensive restaurants, etc. You name it, this region likely has it, and people’s money is spread thin when so many options exist. So, in a word…
Yup.
And you're telling me you know more than a Sports Economist on this issue?
All things considered, I’ll rather listen to de Mause or Zimbalist (b/f he was bought by Ratner) than you.
You are right Net Income
As always. Just waiting for those 41 sellouts a season in Brooklyn for their beloved Nets. Can’t wait to see that happen. Please wake me up when it does ok?
Net Income...
I never said Brooklyn wouldn’t happen – check my posts. What I have said is that this whole project has been a scam involving pay-offs and very rich people bulldozing the common man for the good of very few – I STAND BY THAT.
What I have also said is that if the Nets proceed with the move to Brooklyn they will have very few true fans – New York City (including Brooklyn) is generally committed to the Knicks and barring the signing of a total superstar like LeBron, that won’t change. And that the team has all but abandoned their New Jersey fan base – I STAND BY THAT.
I challenge you to dispute those claims but you won’t. When you know your wrong, you generally stay pretty silent on those subject matters.
you've said a lot of things
not one of them positive about this move which in spite of all posting and toasting, etc., is about to take place.
You've said a lot of things too Income
Not one of them offering any proof that there is a strong fan base waiting for this team in Brooklyn other than you and the 25-person posse you have rounded up on this website.
I don’t care about 500 million dollars worth of bonds or the fortunes of Ratner and Prokorov – I AM TALKING ABOUT FANS.
The Atlantic Yards War...
….knows no bounds.
Net Income could post up a story about how Bobby Simmons has taken up knitting as a hobby during the offseason months and the battle would spill over into there.
Issac vs. The Pro Brooklynites has become a long, brutal, and barbaric struggle. A Duel to the Death. Even when Daniel Goldstein basically spits in Isaac’s face by selling out, Isaac continues to battle on, like a rabid dog not knowing that his ear has just been bitten off. He has the determination of 1000 men beating within his chest. If Yi had 1/10th of Isaac’s fortitude, he’d be a top 10 PF.
Oh, I guess jabs at Yi happen in every thread as well. Go figure!
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on May 6, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Damn, I didn’t know the Liberty would be in town. It’s too bad that Yi will be playing for China this summer, he could stop by during their practices and get a few reps in.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
LOL
Bad form I know, but that one was left wide open so I had to take it.
Like CDR, as long as I’m within range, there isn’t a shot that I don’t like
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on May 6, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Liberty in Newark
I will probably be attending some of those games next season being a fan of the WNBA. THe last time the Liberty couldn’t play a number of home games at MSG was back in 2004 when the RNC was using it making them play over at Radio City Music Hall, which I did attend a game there as well. Speaking of the Liberty, they did make some good offseason moves by acquiring some good players such as Nicolle Powell, Cappie Pondexter, and even Taj McWilliams-Franklin. It would have been nice if they didn’t lose Becky Hammon to the Silver Stars or cut Shay Doron, the first and only Israeli-born WNBA player after having her for one season. Perhaps, this could be their season, though the Liberty do hold the record for making the most WNBA Finals appearences without actually winning it and several of them are against the now defunct Comets. At least nobody made a sexist remark on this, which is what I would expect from most of those who hate the WNBA would say.
Another screw job for a WNBA team
I am not too happy after reading an article on the Village Voice by Neil deMause, who is also the author of Field of Schemes, mentioned that the rennovation will only be when the Liberty are playing, but it will stopped when the Knicks and Rangers are playing there. Wouldn’t it save money to do the rennovation if it was just done from the starting point without taking a day off? Why just have it affect the Liberty only, but not the others? It almost makes me feel that the WNBA still gets no respect. How about give the Knicks and Rangers the Izod Center while that hasn’t been torn down yet so that the rennovation can continue or even have them play at Radio City Music Hall like the Liberty did back in 2004 when the RNC was using MSG at the time? This is an outrage that it’s just the Liberty and it really sickens me that they are treated as if they are expendable. On a sidenote, if anyone remembers when the Shock, who are now in Tulsa, won their most recent WNBA championship, they had to play both the Eastern Confrence and WNBA Finals over at Eastern Michigan University because of the scheduling conflicts over at the Palace of Aurburn Hills, and they even had to play a WNBA Finals game at Joe Louis Arena in downtown Detriot a few years before that because of a Shakira concert that couldn’t be rescheduled for another day.
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/05/msg_reno_to_exi.php
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