How the Nets Could Sabotage the Knicks' Plan for LeBron James
by Net Income on May 23, 2010 2:18 PM EDT
in 2010 Free Agency
Email
PrintChris Sheridan writes Sunday about a perfectly plausible plan that could sabotage the Knicks' plan to sign LeBron James and another free agent while improving their own roster at the same time.
Sheridan notes the news that Chris Bosh would welcome a sign-and-trade with the Knicks. The likeliest scenario, he writes, would be Bosh for David Lee. "Presumably, James would tell the Knicks who he would want to play alongside him, and if James asks for Bosh, the Knicks really have no choice but to go along," he opines. The Knicks could at that point offer Lee a sweet deal, say "a six-year deal with a $10 million starting salary and 10.5 percent annual raises, which would add up to nearly $76 million, and then trade him to Toronto".
But he suggests Rod Thorn could throw a monkey wrench into the mix. "Imagine the Nets told Lee: 'Look, David. We are willing to give you a five-year contract with a $13 million starting salary with 8 percent annual raises (which adds up to $75.4 million), but we need an answer in the next hour. You going to take it? Or leave it?'" If Lee accepted, the Nets would still have enough cap space to sign a maxed out player...and Bosh would be unlikely to accept $30 million less to sign as a free agent with the Knicks. It'd also make New York less attractive for LeBron.
Far-fetched? Thorn once gave Mikki Moore a half-hour to decide on an offer and the Suns made Steve Nash such an offer in 2004.
177 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
david lee worth 75 million?
i like the guy, but no thanks.
Now this story assumes
the Knicks would give Lee $10 million. If the Knicks offer him less, the Nets could lower their offer. So it wouldn’t necessarily mean the Nets would offer him $75 million, just more than the Knicks.
ok so
If we were to do this, who do we draft. If we sign johnson do we even think of rudy gay? Hopefully we will get lee and phila will draft dc so we can get turner.
by Andrew Garcia on May 23, 2010 2:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The single dumbest thing we could do is sign the 29 year old leader of the team that was swept by the team being swept by the Celtics now
How bad does that make the hawks when they were totally decimated by a team being totally decimated?
I actually meant drafting WES Johnson. not joe. thats if we were to get lee.
by Andrew Garcia on May 23, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think its Wes Johnson and David Lee
Or Rudy Gay and Derrick Favors sure looks like it. The good thing about the Draft is we can save the Max money as long as possible. I honestly didn’t know Wes Johnson was as athletic as he was impressed me, but the thing i him and Gay are like 1 year apart.
Meh I'm not too big on Gay
but I think I’d prefer him over Johnson for the exact reason you named, they’re only a year apart and Gay is already worlds ahead of him as a scorer. I think Johnson is going to struggle just because he can’t really get to the free throw line and has mediocre handling skills. And I’m not sure how much better he is than all the swing men we already have.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
(woops)
Why do these guys never see the full picture?
Why would the Raptors want to have $160M invested into a front line that plays no defense?
good point
but it may very well be that they don’t want to lose Bosh for nothing. Toronto, as a franchise, never seems to understand the need for defense.
by kv on May 23, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
But all sides have to agree; So that leaves Toronto without many options.
Does Bosh want to go to a loser in New York (w/o LeBron) just for 25 million extra?
He would lose more money in sponsorships if his team stinks.
That is a good question
He thinks he is much better than he is, fantasizing that he is a Wade or a Lebron. Maybe he would imagine that he would transform the team. Additionally of course, he would get much more than 25 mil. He would also have endless endorsement deals as the face of the Knicks, a team that has not had a face for a very long time.
by kv on May 23, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
on a really good team
he would be unstoppable due to his athletic, slashing style, his intensity. But as the focus of the offense I completely agree.
by kv on May 23, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
gasol wasn't so tough two years ago. the celtics punked him in the finals.
it took two and a half years of kobe riding pau for him to get this way.
You know what. Bosh is the only player who is considered a superstar but actually sucks. He thinks hes really good and wants the spotlight of new yourk. But, honestly, i dont think we have to sabotage a plan that Ny has been spending the last 3 years destroying themselves. Here’s what i think happens.
LeBron- 35% Cleveland
35% NJ
10% Chicago
5% Miami
5% NY
10% Other
Bosh-35% Chicago
25% NY
25% Miami
15% Toronto
Wade-80% Miami
10% NJ
5% NY
5% Other
Stoudemire-95% Phoenix
5% Phoenix
So, in the end, our best chance is proabably LeBron and we should pursue him along with a solid role, all star player who can support him. Essentialy, there will be the superstar in LeBron along iwht 3-4 allstars (Harris, Lopez, TWill, and then a Ray Allen, Dirk nowitzki type
Seems like Stoudemire is headiing for Miami
50% chance.
He is being humiliated in this series and won’t forget it. Of course he will blame the “team”. I doubt he will stay with Phoenix if Los Suns get swept and he keeps getting his ass kicked by Odom and Pau.
by kv on May 23, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, he will want to leave the West.
But just Amare and DWade wouldn’t be able to do it themselves. Miami would have to unload more cap space for a 3rd Big.
He would still come to Miami without the big
He sees himself as a warrior.
by kv on May 23, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
But DWade would realize it isn't enough to contend for a championship without a 3rd star player.
Miami needs more cap space.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AobAr.0Dej2hpgr58YeOimO8vLYF?slug=mc-stoudemiresuns052210
Even if the Phoenix Suns offer Amar’e Stoudemire(notes) a maximum contract, the All-Star forward isn’t sure he’ll re-sign with the team.
If Lebron and Bosh really do want to play together – and I have a feeling that they do – we should try to entice both Bosh and Toronto with a superior sign and trade offer. I realize that Bosh would not have to go along with the sign and trade if he is dead set on avoiding New Jersey…but if he is open minded about coming to play in Jersey (or if Lebron pushes him to consider Jersey) it stands to reason that Bosh would prefer that his previous employer gets back something good so he does not feel like he is screwing over his former team. I don’t see David Lee taking below market value just so he can be shipped from his beloved NYC to Canada. And if Lee gets a big payday, I don’t think Toronto would be interested in him, particularly after being burdened with Hedo’s bloated contract. The Nets could offer Harris, Yi, Golden State first round pick, and perhaps future first round picks. This could be enough for Bosh and Colangelo to agree to pull the trigger on the deal. We would have enough salary cap space remaining to go after a max free agent, a decent replacement for Harris (Farmar, Felton, Ridnour) and a shooter like a Mike Miller. Perhaps the deal could be expanded to include Jarrett Jack who could fit in well with the Nets.
lol @ the daily news pole
Knick fans understand the future is with us, not the Knicks, thy can renovate the Garden all they want were getting a brand new stadium. I think Proky should think about new uniforms to, maybe black and blue with red nets Jersey.
So will the Liberty
looks like they will be without a home at the Garden the next three summers with the renovations underway. They may move to the Rock.
nash
what you mean thats how nash ended up in the suns
i feel like the real question is
why would Lee ever agree to a sign and trade, especially to Toronto of all places, after he was loyal to the knicks this off-season and they’ve done nothing to return the favor?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
there are tax issues in Ontario
as well. Players who play in Toronto are the most taxed followed by New York.
Also yeah I have to agree
if we’re going to offer Lee for 13 million they might as well go for the max and sign Amar’e or Bosh. The main reason, IMO, Lee is a preferable option is for the fact he’ll likely cost so so so much less. Offering him more just to sabotage another team, which IMO is kind of dumb who cares what the knicks do, takes away the advantage.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Why is Stoudamire worth a max?!? Look at how he’s declined over this season alone. Over the course of the playoffs, it doesn’t even look like he’s trying to rebound. How do you expect him to be worth $15-$20 million for the next 4-6 years? He won’t even be worth that over the next 2 seasons. David Lee has gotten better and better, is rarely injured, has a much better attitude, wants to win, and wants to do it all in the area we happen to play in.
by JohnFromLongIsland on May 23, 2010 7:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think he's worth the max to be honest
I just don’t think lee is worth 75 million. Lee’s is a poor defender, his game is based mostly on athleticism so he’ll likely see a steep decline as he ages, a 5 year contract would go into his 30s, and he’s really just a garbage guy, he’s a great garbage guy, but not enough of a piece to be worth 75 million. I don’t think Amare is worth the max, which is exactly why I’d rather get Lee for 10 million than Amare for anywhere near the max, but if the price for Lee is 13 million then we should just say no to both of them.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Completely agree
Plus, Lee’s numbers are insanely inflated and have been proven on a losing team, never having played in real pressure. He’s a nice second team player that would make any bench better, but you can’t lock up your cap with the guy.
And I happen to love him, and cheer for him when I see him play.
by kv on May 23, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I love Lee too
and would love to have him on the team, but not for damn near max money.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I disagree
I would take Amare over all the other PF’s available hands down. No he doesnt rebound, but neither does Brook. I feel like with a good coach(not under a run and gun offense which he has been under his whole career) he could get his nose in the paint more. Same for Brook. At least, if you have any hope for Brook improving his abysmal rebounding, you automatically need to have that same hope for Amare. On top of that, he can score like no other FA aside from Lebron and Wade.
I like David Lee also, but Amare is better, we need a scoring machine.
we need shooters
defense, and reliable scorers from the outside. We have post scoring, we don’t need more of it.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Ok
OK… then we can just play 4 players? HA.
Does that mean you think David Lee has a better mid range shot then Amare? Or better defense?
no but I think he's a better rebounder
and fits our team better. But like I’ve said 1000 times I wouldn’t pay either of them 13+ million that much. I’ve asked it 1000 times and I’ll ask again, how many good teams pair scoring bigs with other scoring bigs?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
well
When your building a super team from scratch with near unlimited funds, we do! (And I don’t see Brook as a “scoring big.” If he is… then Bynum is. So there, the Lakers do it.)(You put Bynum on the Nets this past season he would average 30 ppg 15 boards and 4 blocks.)
Brook blows at rebounding worse then Amare, so in my mind, we are going to need a coach to get him to hit the boards no matter what, so that will help with Amare right there. Plus I dont think Brook is a low post scorer, I think he is the only viable option on a bad team, and he averaged 19ppg. Similar to Lee. I am more interested in getting a legitimate scorer in Amare(who has put up numbers with other offensive weapons with him, unlike Brook), and a runner in Gay. I am a huge fan of fast breaking offensive teams… and Amare, like I said in my opinion is the only player other then Lebron and Wade who you can go to at the end of a game for the half court bucket.
How is Brook not a scoring big?
And agreed Brook is worse at rebounding…which is why he should be paired with a rebounder. And the Lakers can do, he put up practically 20 ppg at 21 on a team with no shooters to keep teams clogging the lane and no one to keep double teams off him, not to mention no coach. You have to consider what he did in context. Lopez is a legit scorer you’re comparing apples to oranges trying to compare his scoring production with Amar’es (Amar’e wasn’t averaging 26 a game his second year either and he was on a MUCH better team he didn’t start that until Nash got there and he had a legit pg who could was a prolific shooter to keep defenses honest). Which comes back to my point too many people seem to think this is some type of video game and you just put a bunch of scorers on the court without thinking about how they fit together. You want a big man who will give you 26 points a night? Then don’t go out and pay for Amar’e give Lopez some respectable shooters around him and a big man with enough of a midrange game to keep defenses from double teaming Lopez and he’ll probably give you 26 a night (remember how Lopez would usually go off in the first half of games and then get shut out in the second when teams realized no one on the team could shoot and they could just double team him?). Overpaying for someone like Amar’e is just going to give us the worst defensive and rebounding front court in the league and an expensive and mediocre team.
Also dude wtf
Amare(who has put up numbers with other offensive weapons with him, unlike Brook),
in what universe has anyone ever considered it easier to put up points with inferior offensive players around you?
Not to mention even Amar’e himself is being paired with a non offensive big man (Robin Lopez) if you recall the Amar’e didn’t turn it on, and the suns didn’t start making a run late in the season, until they switched Diaw out for Lopez. The Lakers are literally the only recent championship team who put two offensive big men together, and calling Bynum an offensive big man is an extreme stretch, and that’s because of how the triangle works. The Celtics don’t do it, the Spurs have never done it, the Heat didn’t do it during their run, the Mavs have never done it, the Suns stopped doing it when they realized it didn’t work, and the Pistons never did it. Why? because smart teams realize it does not work.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Really? The Spurs havent done it?
You dont think that The Admiral could score? Just, wow. That also brings up a point to consider why we haven’t seen it… because big men are so rare to begin with. When a team does get the 2 on one team from what I have seen, they are pretty much unstoppable, simply because there are so few big guys in the first place to stop 1 good big man, let alone 2. Thats why you dont see it, not because it doesn’t work.
And yes my point about Amare is a perfect example about how Brook cant score with other scorers. Every time the Nets got a player back from injury, Brook would lose a ppg on his avg. The reason is because, the games I watched(all of them), Brook could only put up big numbers when he was the only option. Once we got other options, no one wants to play with a guy who is going to be fed the ball, only to force up a shot nearly every single time he touches it. He is one of the best forced shot makers I have ever seen, I will give him that, but he is too slow to “create his own” shot. You tell me another, as you say, good “low post scoring” 7 footer that shoots under 50% from the floor. Like I said, he should have been putting up high 30 low 40 point games WITH double teams. Given that, we see Brooks production go way down when you put more efficient modes of scoring on the court, where as, Amare being so athletic, can create his own shot, inside or outside.
um the admiral played like 20 minutes a game when they won
their championship together he was basically a role player at that point. And if you remember even this season Amar’e wasnt putting up these numbers until they replaced Diaw in the line up with Lopez. And the thing is Brook is only 21 only in his second year in the league and playing with virtually no coach. Amar’e’s second year numbers are almost identical and he had a legit shooter on the team with him in Joe Johnson to keep teams at least somewhat honest. How many big men in only their second year have put up decidedly better numbers? And how many did it with as many other issues surrounding their team as Lopez?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Brook
I don’t see it in him. I don’t even see it being close. Its going to take some serious big man coaching. His numbers compared to the other “great” centers(and that’s basically what everyone on this site says he is the second coming of) in the first few years are significantly less, AND like you say Brook was the only one on the team this year. The rebounding alone, for a 7 foot center with no other legitimate bigs is inexcusable.
Diaw wasn’t on the suns this season btw.
I would love to have David Lee as Ideal PF next to Lopez and be effective in year 1.
But a few points about this story:
1. I think the 75 million 5 year offer suggested by the Nets, was before the draft lottery, assuming a Wing in draft.
2. I agree that Lee would give Nets “a discount” over Toronto, just to stay in New York where he has lived and where all his fans and the media are.
Not to mention to play along side Brook, at his ideal position of PF?
I’ll bet that $70 million would do the trick for 5 years, vs. $75 million to go to Toronto and have lots of pressure to replace Bosh.
That would be $12 million for year 1, which could leave $17 million for year for a Max FA. (an extra 1 million is significant.
3. Knicks fans should have reason to be concerned, because Bosh isn’t going to NY Knicks without LeBron. That is fairly certain. So then Knicks are resting all their hope on Bosh+LeBron, which wouldn’t get done right away, because LeBron first has to spend some time with his friend Proky in the Maldives, etc.
4. Even so, LeBron isn’t likely to sign long term, so why should Bosh? Bosh has so many other options, the likelyhood of Knicks getting their wish a small.
5. Finally, as was mentioned yesterday, the NBA just closed a loophole that would have allowed LeBron to buy stock in MSG (thinking that the value would go up if he signed on). I suspect that was “Dolan’s Ace in the hole”, in order to attract LeBron. It is now against NBA regulations.
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_15138943
Of course everything has to be re-evaluated, if Nets take a BigMan in draft, as appears to be happening, unless a deal for Turner and Phila. can be made. Then it is back to getting RGay for less than DLee.
David would end up going elsewhere, but not likely Toronto.
Any thoughts to trying for Turner, by offering #3 pick, CLee, Warriors 1-7 protected pick, and $3 million in cash to Phila?
Then Nets could go after David Lee (for $12 million starting) and then RGay if it doesn’t look like LeBron is interested?
This would solve all the Nets problems with Cousins vs. Favors.
CLee probably wouldn’t play much if Turner became the Nets SG. Turner is good for 40 mpg.
Of course Phila would want to rid them of Brand’s $51 million remaining on their contract, but they would have to find another buyer, once Cousins was on their roster.
Or to put it another way, would Phila. accept that offer?
If not, what would it take, short of Nets absorbing Brand’s $51 million over 3 years?
My feeling is that by taking Cousins, Phila. could phase him in and unload Brand in 1-2 years when his contract has lessened.
Dalembert’s $12 million expires at end of next year.
Minny has offered #4 pick + #16 pick for #2 pick. Surely Nets could do much better.
The story doesn't make any sense
Why would Lee do a sign and trade for a deal under the max? The only scenario where he’d benefit is if the Knicks offer max dollars…any other situation is just weakening the team he’s signing with.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 23, 2010 6:20 PM EDT reply actions
Hilarious suggestion for the Nets (OP)
Wreck your cap future (hard cap coming in 2011) on a completely offensive PF that plays no defense whose thrived in a losing atmosphere (he’d fit right in with a 12 win team), just to mess up the Knicks plans.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
by kv on May 23, 2010 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The plan would only only happen if Nets didn't fee that Favors would have the bright future that was predicted.
And I think that plan was devised before the draft, when Nets would have gotten a Wing.
David Lee and Rudy Gay
will both get offers of $55 to $65 million over five years.
He is not a charity case…and he has never had a coach who demanded his players defend. Considering how he has improved every other aspect of his game, I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to become at least a reliable defender.
Lee has another advantage for the Nets. He will sell some tickets.
Um Larry Brown doesn't demand his coaches defend?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
and he'll likely field those high offers
because so many teams cleared cap space and there are so few front court players available, just because the market is willing to pay a player a certain amount doesn’t make him worth that price tag, it just means there’s a market inefficiency. And he really hasn’t changed that much of a player, he’s improved but in most offenses he’s going to be the same 10-10, or maybe more like 12-12, guy he was before D’Antoni’s offense. He’s not shooting at a higher percentage or anything he’s just taking more shots, probably because at center he’s matched up against players who can’t match his athleticism, which won’t be the case in our offense playing power forward.
Plus winning sells more tickets than players (just ask Dwayne Wade), and locking up a ton of cap space in a player in his late 20s who’s game is based so much on his athleticism and really isn’t going to be more than an above average role player on a play-off team isn’t conducive to winning.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Does anyone have highlight footage, from the end of past season, of Cousins and Favors?
That was how we decided on TWill. It helps to determine the upper limit on these guys.
I would think that their agents would be paying money to make highlight tapes.
I agree, the agents are morons
for not packaging their clients in polished, convincing youtubes. Silliness, and lack of forward thinking.
by kv on May 23, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Jerrry, here is a fantastic highlight reel of Cousins
by kv on May 23, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
oops, its a highlight
reel of Shaq at LSU. If you watch it – please DO – you would stop comparing Cousins to Shaq.
by kv on May 23, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This video really made me think..
College basketball is so much weaker than it used to be. The fact that Cousins is able to dominate against these guys is unimpressive to me.. I’m starting to think that the potential of Favors far outweighs any benefits you get from Cousins being ‘more ready’.
Cousin's athleticism
is like Shaq at 39 not 19.
by djsupreme on May 23, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the wierd thing was
when I watched the highlight I expected to see something more like Cousins, and strangely it looked more like Favors.
Frankly, neither is likely in Shaq’s realm, but it was odd to see that.
yeah he really didn't face many quality front courts
the sec isn’t exactly a powerhouse conference either. Ed Davis and John Henson, who combined probably weigh less than Cousins, pretty much shut him down.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I have to say, I was pretty shocked
when I watched the highlight reel, like when I have looked back at early Jordan, or Magic, or Hakeem. You forget how lean and explosive these guys were as kids, you have in your mind their later, dominate years. You think of them as AFTER their bodies have matured, gained heft.
The fact of the matter is that when you look at a guy who is 19 and has a body of a 27 year old, it is almost always trouble. This guy, unless he is extremely disciplined, or a flat our freak, is going to get bigger, rounder, slower.
I remember an analyst when “hot rod” Williams came out, remember him? He was going to be the next Magic. He was 6’9", had excellent handle, could do anything on the court, a bit like Coleman. In fact he looked like Magic. But the analyst said, when a guy looks like that at 20 you got to put 20 lbs on him. He just going to get BiGGER. And that was exactly what happened. The guy got to the pros and ballooned.
I do think Cousins is a VERY interesting player, but when you start projecting him into Shaq because he’s so big, you have to remember what Shaq was like when he was 19. He was a pogo-stick of explosion. There likely are serious worries about Cousins, despite really obvious skills. Most of which involve the fact is is likely to become a HUGE load, and won’t be getting up and down the court very well.
I have to give it to Big Baby. He really was on that track into oblivion. He had one of the prematurely fat bodies, and it got it together. But that is very rare.
Take Shaq at Vets Min to be 14th player and Big Man Coach for Nets and Cousins. He would be a good mentor and keep Cousins out of trouble.
Cousins still is best Big Man in SEC since Shaq. That is official word. He is still Shaq-like.
Shaq had 3 years of College to get that Highlight film.
Trust me, if a hightlight film was made for the last 10 games of Cousins, it would be impressive. Just not high above the rim stuff. Cousins stealing the ball off the dribble against guards. Receiving 30 foot fast break passes and making some too.
I see that Shaq was a clown, even back then.
Well if Cousins was in better shape without issues, they say he would be #1 pick.
Imagine then how distant a 2nd pick John Wall would be in this draft, if Shaq was coming out?
Shaq as a guardian LOL
Shaq is a huge party guy. He is a VIP in every club. I could think of no worst mentor for a guy who is going to hit NY bigtime and has a potential weight problem. No doubt Shaq puts in the work, but on the social side it would be disaster.
Here is a nice article about Cousins
Note that he actually has lost some weight since this photo.
Maybe he will lose some more weight in next 29 days.
Then he would be taken seriously.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-cousins031610
Demarcus can be guaranteed to be a level above Big Baby and DeJuan Blair due to his height/length in near future.
Can we be assured that Favors would reach that level in next couple of years. I’m not convinced.
And they were both underrated, mainly for being short and fat.
Cousins is at least tall
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 24, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
they were als worlds more athletic
which is why they make up for their height. And Davis was underrated because he was coming off an awful year in a loaded draft class (because all of the 1 and done guys came out after being forced to go to a year of school), if he’d come out with Thomas he’d have been a top ten pick easily.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
In fact if you remember Davis had actually lost a TON of weight
that season, fat had nothing to do with him falling. And him and Blair have absolutely no comparison to Cousins. They’re like guys like Ben Wallace, just as far as height/athleticism who make up for being below average height with their explosion, athleticism, and quick feet. Which are 3 things EVERY scouting report says are Cousins biggest lackings.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Davis weighed 298 in predraft measurements. I don't know what he weighed at LSU, but thats still heavier than the taller Cousins.
Here’s his numbers from the combine (no body fat for him I guess). Blair wasn’t the best example, but his body fat was 12% and he weighed 277. Neither one was considered very athletic, as you can also see from those reports. Pretty much every interview or report archived on either of them mentions their overall lack of athleticism.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 24, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
um neither one was considered very athletic?
Athletically, Davis is very rare. A player his size, with his strength and bulk, combined with his unique agility and nimbleness on the court does not come along very often.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
We knew he was strong, and quick feet are nice.
He periodically gets either tired or lazy and just leans on the offensive player to play defense
Sounds like Cousins
His extra weight already limits him severely from getting off the ground
Also sounds like Cousins
Once he gets the ball where he wants it, Cousins is more than skilled enough to know what to do with it, showing quick feet, terrific footwork, excellent body control and fantastic touch to finish off plays
That quote about Cousins sounds an awful lot like Big Baby
Cousins is without a doubt a precocious talent with the type of physical tools and scoring instincts that you rarely see at the college level
That one also sounds alot like the one you picked out.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 24, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
The bold one should be another blockquote
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 24, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
How does that at all sound like Davis?
With Davis they’re talking about his agility, with Cousins they’re just talking about scoring. Where do they say anything about concerns about Davis’s athleticism or explosion or agility, and where do they ever say anything positive about Cousins’s? post-moves !=agility. I didn’t say anything about Davis being fat I said even as fat as he was he was much more athletic.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Davis is the exception that proves the rule
I think. There is almost no other player I can think of that came into the league as a Baby Fat giant glued to the floor, and did the incredible work to get his body into great shape (Blair’s problem is and was his knees, and it remains to be seen what happens there).
But Big Baby came to a team LOADED with leadership. In fact it is crazy how many fierce examples he was surrounded with. If he was drafted by Golden State or Memphis, you can be guaranteed that he would be 30 lbs heavier, and in the D-league, I suggest.
Further, Cousin’s attitude is not Davis’s, as far as I can tell. I can see Cousin’s overcoming this, but you have to admit, it is a big gamble.
there's also the fact that for every Big Baby, or Blair
there’s Sean May, Eddy Curry, etc.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Nah, for every Big Baby or Blair
(and Blair’s knees still might give out), there are 5 or 10 Sean Mays or Eddie Currys
by kv on May 24, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
At least we are comparing him to guys
who can’t crack the starting line up, and will be out of the league in 6 years, instead of a dominant center who will go into the books as a top 20 player all time.
Cousins is head and shoulders above Big Baby and Blair.
Sean May is a better example to use to defend the opposition. However, May was never expected to be in Cousin’s league. May had an injury, but was never big enough to be considered a top 3 pic if healthy.
As much as you say that Big Baby and Blair aren’t starters, it would take quite a while (if ever) for Favors to play at their level. That would be most unfortunate.
Thorn definitely would consider Cousins if he could be convinced of his work effort. DeMarcus has several more weeks to prove himself.
Obviously some of you people didn’t watch Cousins much. I admit not watching Favors much, because every time I tried, the only semi-dominant NBA-type player I could see, was his teammate, Lawal.
On Lawal as been dropping – could be had with #31 pic?
How ironic that would be. Nets could pick Cousins at #3 and then Favors teammate – Lawal at #31, as a backup to Cousins. And Lawal could be better than Favors for the first couple of years.
I know, not even Howard.
There is a reason why Shaq is going down as a top 5 center all time.
Haven't you been watching the playoffs?
Defense wins championships. If you want to know why the Nets, who should have been a 30 win team, won 12 games, look at the terrible defensive effort they gave every night. David Lee is a terrible, terrible defender. His stats say he is a great player, but the eyes and the results say he’s only average.
Please click reply on the post that you are replying to, thanks! :)
by jasperjarrod on May 23, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
lol!
you did the same thing I did. I was suppose to hit the reply button before I made the comment on kv’s video.
by jasperjarrod on May 23, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Defense starts with the coach. Hopefully, Nets should be close to a new coach by end of week One that demands defense.
http://netsarescorching.com/2010/05/20/coaching-candidate-number-four-avery-johnson/
I just love this photo of Avery. Looks like he was knocked to the ground and he keeps on coaching!
Players get inspired by that passion.
Must be what Prokhorov is talking about when he was describing what he wants in a coach.
I am convinced that a good coach can teach a young Stud like RGay to play Defense.
Same for a willing student like DLee, although its less likely that Nets will go for Lee unless they can get #2 pick from Phila.
Defense starts with talent
Coachs don’t teach defense, they utilize talent if they know what it takes. An example would be Frank. He could draw up the best scemes and run it with a small lineup. Imo if coaches could teach defense, Frank would still be our coach.
agreed.
There are serious skill/psychology issues with the guys on the roster. People don’t want to look at the dark side of having won 12 games. There are guys who lose, and then there are guys who accept losing. A 12 win team has a lot of the latter. You don’t add two good players and a coach and change that.
by kv on May 24, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't think it's so much that they accept losing
I think a big problem was the complete lack of a veteran presence. A bunch of young guys with no real coach don’t really know how to turn things around. Which is why I think bringing in some cheap veterans, rather than wasting all our cap room on max guys who may not be worth it, on short term contracts would go along way towards helping change the culture around for our younger core players. Or taking on some bad contracts for a year, like AK-47, of veterans and saving the cap space for next year.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I can see the value of veterans being added
But Harris IS a vet, and IS their floor general. If they add vets for sure the team will improve, but the lack of a vet doesn’t explain (excuse) all. These guys gave up, in games.
That is called quitting. Now maybe some of that can change, but to believe that it will AUTOMATICALLY change, just by adding a few players is a dreadful mistake.
by kv on May 24, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
eh
I understand Harris is a vet on our team but I’m not really sure he’s really a veteran, he was always the young guy on the mavs, by a lot and when he came here VY was still here and then all of a sudden he was the old guy surrounded by a bunch fo 20 year olds. He didn’t really make a normal transition from the youngest guy by far to the oldest guy, it happened in like less than a year. Plus he missed a lot of time with injuries earlier and I really think the team was completely different after the ASB, at least in terms of effort.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
one thing i'd like to add
even terrible defenders can become viable ones within the right system and the right amount of work and effort
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on May 24, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
lebron site
OT a bit…
looks like we joined other teams with a LeBron site. …Someone made www.netlebron.com/
by Homey We Don't Play Around on May 23, 2010 9:13 PM EDT reply actions
Yes, lets help out this guy, whoever he is.
Maybe there should be a link from home NetsDaily.
He appears to have his own advertising.
I saw a comment from a Chicago fan, so we better help out.
I would be cool with signing David Lee...
And then drafting Wes Johnson. I would like Johnson at SF and T-Will at SG.
by Joe Uras on May 23, 2010 9:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think T-Will should be our starting point guard
I really think for our team to take the next step he needs to be there, like getting a bigger John Wall with better court vision and a better defender.
I like the idea of T-Will at the point as well.
My concern is that our bench will take a BIG hit if he steps into a starting role. Who (or how many players) will we get to replace him?
I agree that he’s attractive as a big PG, bu not necessarily with better court vision and defense. Wall is the truth; we’ll just have to make lemonade out of Lottery lemons.
TWill doesn't exactly need to be in the PG slot
To be the main ball handler, orchestrate the offense and distribute the ball. He would be fine next to a scoring PG like Harris. They sort of have reversed mindsets and skillsets. You’d think the 6-6 225lb dude would want to attack score and the 6-3 180lb guy would look to distribute the ball and get others involved.
by Joe Uras on May 24, 2010 12:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on May 24, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow...Bosh has a list!
He acts like he is the biggest FA ever bigger than Lebron and than Shaq/TD were in the 90s! LOL
So being a free agent and having places he wants to go means his head is too big?
Isn’t that sort of the point of free agency? Most players lists don’t get to the media, but you can bet that all the good ones have them (even if they aren’t shaq).
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 24, 2010 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Point Guard Scenarios
I’ve been thinking about this all day. All year. LOL. What if we forget about Wall but trade Harris and the #27 for Chris Paul. Then sign LeBron and Chris Bosh/Amaré/ whomever.
My question is whether or not Harris would play well with LeBron. I think that if we got a point guard like Chris Paul, this would be an obvious choice for LeBron. What do you think?
AND: If you had to pick one free agent PF to go along with LeBron and Brook, who would it be? I always thought David Lee but am leaning towards Bosh because he would play outside more and leave the paint open for Brook.
by Alex F on May 24, 2010 2:30 AM EDT reply actions
Nevermind that New Orleans wouldn't even consider that
And nevermind also that we don’t actually have the cap room to sign two max guys
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 24, 2010 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I like that scenerio
Paul’s stock is way on the decline. People are mentioning Rondo and Williams as accepting the torch from Kidd as the best PGs in the league now, with not even a breath left for Paul. If ever there was a time to try to snag him, it was now, especially that they have TWO points.
We don’t really know what NO would do. They were on the brink of greatness and then fell off and may be desperate to get back and not be surpassed by the Thunder and the next great young team.
But it wouldn’t be Harris. You would have to give them Lopez or TWill (which I would do), and the number 3 and maybe get 11 back. And take on Paul’s 13 mil. Would you do that?
by kv on May 24, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't give up Brook
For anyone in the league at this point. I think his potential is way too good. I would try maybe Devin and Yi + #27 or something. But Brook is definitely the only untouchable player on the team and Terrence is definitely #2 on that list. Everyone else can go!
by Alex F on May 24, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would they give up a top 3 player in the league from 2 years ago
for a backup point, an ineffective back up PF and a 10th man on the bench?
And you wouldn’t give up Brook for ANYONE? How odd. Good thing there isn’t a Lebron for Brook trade in the works :)
by kv on May 24, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont at this point
Paul’s playing bone on bone right now. He’s a serious candidate for needing more knee surgery, maybe even micro fracture, in the near future. Having your meniscus taken out is a serious injury, especially for a smaller guard with his style of play who was already sort of injury prone. For the money he’s owed I’d say a team would at least have to wait to see how he played through next years deadline and if he holds up before they considered shipping off real value for him.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I can see no report where Paul is due for more surguries
perhaps you can link me.
According to this</strong> recent report he is still considering playing for Team USA. Doesn’t sound AT ALL like someone on the edge of micro fracture surgery.
by kv on May 24, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
? I didn't say he's due
I said playing bone on bone makes him a serious candidate.
When the meniscus is damaged or is surgically removed, the knee-joint can become loose, or unstable. Without the protection and stability of a healthy meniscus, the surfaces of the knee would be bone-on-bone, essentially the same problem that leads to micro fracture surgery.
The menisci are pieces of cartilage in the knee that play a vital role in athletes. They are two C-shaped structures that lie between the femur and tibia on the inside (medial) and outside (lateral) of the knee. They not only stabilize the knee from abnormal front-to-back motion, but also function as shock absorbers that protect the lining of the ends of the bones (articular cartilage) and safely transmit loads across the knee. A complete loss of a meniscus is like driving a car without shocks, and predisposes the knee to loss of cartilage and an accelerated path to degenerative arthritis.
Intrigued, I asked Will Carroll (the injury expert for Baseball Prospectus and Basketball Prospectus) for his thoughts. Will pointed me toward a piece he wrote about meniscus removal a few years ago. The key section: “One reason teams are so quick to allow this surgery is that the players come back so quickly, usually in a matter of weeks. But … surgeons don’t repair the meniscus in most cases; they just take it out, either in part or in whole depending on the size of the tearing. That leaves the athlete with no shock. Eventually, with the remaining meniscus overstressed and aging, they end up with the bones grinding together. Yes, that’s as bad as it sounds in a game of running and jumping.”
link 3
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
People tend to forget Harris was a pure pg in Dallas..he became a scoring guard here as we lacked scoring. Harris is closer to something in between depending on the surrounding cast.
What humors me is how many people believe you are constructing an all star or video game roster. The knocks on Harris is that he looks to score too much taking away. Touches from lopez. Yet that is disregarded by some fans arguing why we need to draft cousins. Sorry how does cousins not take touches from our best player while also giving him less space to operate? Can’t go both ways people.
Who cares about Brook’s touches? We won TWELVE games with him being our #1 option. We were the WORST offensive team in the game last season. We need offensive talent. If improving our team’s offense means Brook has to get less touches, so be it.
This
We just need talent…period. Brook is a nice player, but I’d hardly say he’s good enough to build a franchise around. He’s a nice solid piece for any contender, but we really need 4 more of those.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 24, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
It's way too early...
…to write Brook off like this.
Just because he was the starting center, and the best player, on a 12 win teams does not mean that he’ll a)won’t continue to improve and b)won’t evolve into a dominant franchise player.
Brook has a lot to work on, but lets not just assume this is the best we’re going to get.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on May 24, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Or how about just surround him with a better team?
And a real coach? Maybe that’s the reason why we won 12 games, not because of Brook?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I don’t think Harris takes touches away from Lopez. In fact I think they have great chemistry on offense. Lopez has limited post moves and his lack of quickness in the post leads to turnovers. Cousins might take touches away from Lopez simply cuz he might be a better option in the post. Regarding space, having two bigs can work. Does Bynum takeing space away from Gasol hurt him? Does Perkings take space from KG hurt him? I don’t think so and the priority should be does it work on the defensive end.
you are right, there is GREAT chemistry
between the NJ allstar PG and their Allstar caliber Center. How did they lose all that those games when you have allstars like that performing at such a high level?
Oh yeah, it was the coach’s fault.
by kv on May 24, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Amen to what msm2 said
Regarding space, having two bigs can work.
There are TWO low post blocks and Favors would clog the lanes more than DC would anyways, bc he isn’t a threat by himself in the lowpost and Cousins has a better mid range game and is a better passer off the double team.
I will go on record for the final time that drafting Cousins over Favors will be a huge mistake. A franchise altering mistake. I have posted reasons for months as to my rationale behind this.
But the most important is that you can not afford to take a character risk on a guy with conditioning issues (anyone who wants to dispute this – look at his body fat of 16.4%). If he doesn’t work out you have committed 3 years of cap space to this guy along with most likely guaranteeing that Lopez will not resign. It absolutely is a franchise killer risk. And at 19 I was about 170 pounds and very ripped. At 30 I am 200 pounds and no matter how much cardio I do will never get back to that cut shape. As you get older its harder to stay in shape. If you have 16.4% body fat when having months to prepare for the draft with your entire future on the line and are the same weight as the day your college season ended….what is going to happen when you have a guaranteed money and literally have 2 hours a day of practice on non game days. Combined with the travel and the meal money – its absolutely possible that he is 320 pounds by the All Star game. Why take that chance?
And I do not believe Cousins can co-exist with Lopez in the paint. They are both low block players. So having 2 big bodies down there will serve to clog the paint and give them zero room to operate as well as effectively taking away Devin Harris, CDR and TWill all of whom are most effective with lanes to penetrate. So to have Cousins and Lopez you need to have strong outside shooting to keep perimeter defenders from cheating towards the paint….since that is our biggest weakness it will be like playing 5 on 5 on a small grade school half court. Doesn’t sound conducive to offensive efficiency if you ask me…..
by Ryan243 on May 24, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
you made great points.
I don’t know what the Nets should do honestly. Favors seems like the better fit but can we trust that he’ll develop?
What a crap shoot.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on May 24, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Cousins is a risk, but it’s not like Favors is a sure thing, he’s fram from being close to a sure thing. Talent wise, Cousins is a much safer pick.
And I do not believe Cousins can co-exist with Lopez in the paint. They are both low block players. So having 2 big bodies down there will serve to clog the paint and give them zero room to operate as well as effectively taking away Devin Harris, CDR and TWill all of whom are most effective with lanes to penetrate.
Favors would clog the lanes more. Cousins has the superior mid range game and actually has better tools to play PF offensively. His footwork is off the charts, while Favors’ is poor. Cousins can put the ball on the floor, Favors just can’t. Cousins’ ballhandling abilities are much better, it’s not even close.
Also, Favors needs a pass 1st PG, we don’t have that, how could he a good fit on our offense?
I realize you and jerry are Cousins biggest supporters.
Cousins played with not one but two first round pgs in June. There is not a pg on Georgia Tech’s roster who will play on a high level European team. Cousins offensive numbers were not significantly better than those of Favors. How do you make the argument that Favors needs a pass first pg (when he lacked one in college) and Cousins does not (when he played with not one but two and Kentucky game plan was to force feed him to start each half to capture his interest).
Bonus points for using logic.
not to mention cousins pretty much had the entire post to himself
Patterson was more of a mid range big, so it’s not surprising he was grabbing all their rebounds he was usually the biggest guy on the court. Where as Favors for whatever reason was playing with a big who basically replicated his skill set.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Oh yeah, the guards excuse again.
Here’s the fact of the matter: Cousins is a GO-TO scorer. Favors isn’t, no matter who their PGs were, that wouldn’t change the fact that Cousins is a go-to scorer while Favors is mainly a finisher on the offensive end and can’t create his own offense.
Except it's not a fact
it’s your opinion. And you’ve pretty much proven you’re incapable of being objective. To say Favors can’t create tells me you’ve clearly never actually watched him play. It’s not like Cousins was bringing the ball up and passing it to himself. Cousins is more polished with his post moves but that’s about the only thing he has over Favors, and plenty of big men have learned post moves on the NBA level. What you can’t learn is explosion and athleticism.
And Zach Randolph can be a go to scorer. Would you rather have him than Dwight Howard?
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
It’s one thing to have a PG who gets you the ball, and it’s another different story that you’re capacble of creating your own offensive game once you get the ball in the low post.
My point is that even if Favors had PGs who get him the ball, he’d struggle creating his own shot. That’s not Cousins’ case. I’ve said numerous times, Favors would benefit from having a pass 1st pg who gives him easy looks, bc his main strength on O is that he’s a tremendous finisher. But he will have a hard time when it comes down to create his own shot. You question my objectivity, yet you can’t admit Favors’ ability to create his own offense is poor. Most scouts think that, too.
As for Randolph/Howard, say what you want, but Cousins is NOT Randolph, and Favors is NOT Howard.
Gina, I almost always like your points, but...
could you name players that have learned a full post game at the NBA level? I can think of almost none. Hakeem did, but he was unique in footwork. Kobe did a bit, but he is unique as well. Who are all these players that came to the NBA without a post game, and then ended up with a dominant one?
Instead, with fantastic leapers the trend goes the other way. They can jump all over the place, but they have no game. The Hawks are filled with these types of players. These athletic types, if they do develop a game, its not a post game, its getting more range on their shot. The leapers go outside, not inside, usually.
Howard doesn’t even have a post game yet, even though he is ALWAYS in the post, and has been working on getting one for years.
by kv on May 25, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
?
I never said he would learn a full post game. I’ve said he won’t need to paired with Lopez.. He could likely learn enough post moves to get by when combined with his athleticism, mid range game and face up game, like guys like David Lee (or Howard). I don’t understand where the obsession with his post game is from when we already have an effective low post scorer.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Actually I have no problem with his lack of post game
The problem I had was with your comparison with his game with Cousins on the level of the post game:
“Cousins is more polished with his post moves but that’s about the only thing he has over Favors, and plenty of big men have learned post moves on the NBA level.”
The way that phrased that made it sound like with a little bit of work Favors could becomes as “polished” as Cousins in the post in the NBA. Whether you intended it or not, by objection was to this thought.
Cousins’ problem is his weight and tude maybe, but his post moves are not just polished, they are a complete strength that will serve him very very well in the League. I highly doubt that with a little bit of polishing Favors would ever become measurable against Cousins in the post.
I agree with you Favors has all kinds of other strengths, but comparing their post games is like saying Cousins with a little bit of weight loss will be more in the Favors ball park athletically. its almost that dramatic a difference.
by kv on May 25, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you not go with the better defender?
I don’t worry about clogging the paint. Bos and LA have 2 bigs that work in the paint. You make a good point about the conditioning problem with Cousins but I have to wonder what Shaq’s or Duncan’s body fat were when they were dominate. They weren’t exactly ripped. Strong but not ripped. Does it really matter if he produces with a high body fat. While Favors might very well turn out to be the better one, at this point it’s hard to tell so I personally would go with the bigger winner (and it wasn’t close) since I always give the credit to the big for the teams record even thou Cousins clearly played with the better team. This dilemma reminds me of the Howard-Okafor draft. At the time it was a close call but look at them now.
Wallace doesn't really play in the paint
he’s more of a midrange pf at this point. And the problem with the Shaq comparison is he got bigger AFTER he came into the league he was much more explosive, and had a lower body fat, in the league. The concern is that Cousins, who’s already bigger body fat % wise than Shaq was when he was drafted, is going to continue to put on weight like Shaq did. to the point where he’ll be way bigger.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I wasn't referring to Wallace.
Perkins and KG for Bos and Gasol and Bynum for LA. I didn’t understand your point about Shaq but he did get bigger and added body fat after he came in and still dominated. My point is who cares about body fat as long as he produces and keeps his % reasonable to the point where it doesn’t affect his game.
who cares about his body fat?
- his knees care about his body fat.
- his opposing C/PF cares about his body fat – as he beats him down the court for lay ups.
- the back up C/PF cares about his body fat – because it means more playing time.
- the fourth quarter cares about his body fat.
by kv on May 24, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Your blowing it out of proportion.
If his knees cared I could name several players that starred without falling over. We’ll start with the round mound of rebound. How about the Captain?
His opposition might have beat him down the court but he lost the game if you check his record.
His back up didn’t mind winning either
Check his boxscore to see if he was still playing at the end.
Barkley was a freak, there is no player in the history of the league like him
Almost no guy goes into the league with a weight issue and improves. And tons of them, many of them very skilled, do so and balloon.
A few:
John Williams
Benoit Benjamin
Stanley Roberts
Eddie Curry
Tractor Traylor
just off the top of the head.
And who is the Captain? Kareem?
by kv on May 24, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
uh, "guys" don't go 35-3, teams go 35-3
(Still don’t know who “the captain” is, googled a bit).
by the way Barkley’s body fat was 14.5% at the Pan Am tryout. Lower than Cousins.
by kv on May 24, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Um how is Perkins a post scorer?
He’s basically a defensive rebounding big man who occasionally scores, nothing like what Cousins would be expected to be. And the point is Cousins will be bigger than Shaq was if he adds weight at the same pace. Which means it wouldn’t be at a reasonable %. It’s already well beyond a reasonable percentage and well beyond where Shaqs was at when he entered the draft.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
the guy already has tremendous motivation to lose weight. If
he had spent the last six months getting in shape he would have challenged Wall for the number 1 spot.
by kv on May 24, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Gina please read
“I don’t worry about clogging the paint.” do you see anything about scoring? Shaq weights about 350-375. If Cousins gets that big let me know in the meantime if he does he will never get past his rookie contract. I’m betting NOT.
part of the reason why Shaq could handle
the weight is that he was an explosive leaper in college. He remained an above the rim player his entire career. Cousins is already a below the rim player most of the time.
by kv on May 24, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Shaq's body fat never exceeded 14% at least until 2007
And when it was at 14 he was out of shape, as Shaq says:
“SHAQ: (Laughs) You’re exactly right. You know, I’ve never been overweight. I’m just a freak of nature. They want me to be like a regular seven-footer. So, you know, these guys see a big number on the scale and they look at me and say, “Holy s—-, he’s fat!” But they’re just uneducated. Never in my career have I been over 14-percent body fat. Never, ever. If I’m 400 pounds but I got nine percent body fat, then you have to understand what that number means. But you’re right, they say I’m fat, but I’ve won four championships. So somebody’s not doing their homework.
S.A.: So what’s your percentage of body fat now?
SHAQ: I’m at 12 percent.
S.A.: You said your highest was 14 percent. When was that?
SHAQ: The worst I’ve ever been was when we won my third championship in L.A. I was at 14 percent but that was because I had my foot surgery. I got heavy because I couldn’t do cardio.
by kv on May 24, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade the Pick
I think that the Nets should trade the pick in one of two ways:
1) Trade up to #1 —> #3 + Harris + Whatever else they want
2) Trade #3 for someone already in the league that they want (not sure who that’d be).
It seems that no one is really thrilled with the situation of having to take Cousins, Favors, or Johnson. So instead of HAVING to take one of them, just trade it to someone who ACTUALLY wants him!
Thoughts?
by Alex F on May 24, 2010 2:51 PM EDT reply actions
I don't see how there's anything we could trade for
that would be worth it. No one’s going to give up young proven players for the chance to take young unproven players.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Completely agree. Trade down
Be smart. Trade the pick for Rubio.
Or. Trade down into the middle of the round and pick up a top pick for next year.
Both of these guys have have too many Qs.
by kv on May 24, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
how does rubio have less question marks?
if we’re trading it for rubio it should be rubio + the t-wolves pick or a package of players
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Rubio was the 6 pick last year, he has a year of seasoning
there is no way that he is going for less than 3 or 4 to Kahn.
There are question marks about Rubio, but the upside for the franchise is much more. The team needs identify.
by kv on May 24, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
to me the question marks exceed his name at this point
he’s stats in the euroleague are underwhelming at best at this point and the contract extension means it’s going to cost alot to bring him over, on top of paying him #6 money and giving up the #3 pick. Plus Minnesota has NO leverage in the trade, so they’re really in no position to take a hard line stance.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
They can just hold onto the pick, there is no rush.
I hope you are not using European League stats to assess a PG. Here are Brandon Jennings’ European stats:
“In the Italian Lega A 2008-09 season, Jennings averaged in 27 games, 5.5 points, 1.6 rebounds, 2.2 assists, and 1.5 steals in 17.0 minutes per game. He shot 35.1 percent from the field and 20.7 percent from 3 point range in Lega A play.14 In 16 Euroleague games, Jennings averaged 7.6 points, 1.6 rebounds, 1.6 assists, and 1.2 steals in 19.6 minutes per game. In the Euroleague he shot 38.7 percent from the field and 26.8 percent from 3 point range”
wikipedia
It was exactly for the reason of those stats that the Knicks passed Jennings up. Its a different game.
Now Rubio isn’t Jennings, but he probably is just as good a player, by all accounts.
Brandon Jennings had never played in the euro league before
Rubio grew up in it, there was no adjustment for him like there was for Jennings.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
I don't know what that means.
PGs don’t dominate the league period. The game is different. Everyone’s stats go down there. The NBA is a penetrate and dish league. The PG goes to the hole with great pressure and either scores, gets fouled or passes to a standing 3 pointer. That’s practically the whole offense. The Euro leagues are exactly the opposite. The are not PG centric. It pass, screen, roll, pass, rebound. You can’t look at the stats there and project them.
The biggest thing about Rubio is that is able to control interior space. He is able to live inside the lane and pass with precision. This is a really unique skill, exactly the game that Steve Nash has. Do you remember Nash’s first years in the league? The future multiple MVP in his first 5 years couldn’t crack 30 minutes a game, or 10 pts.His game was quiet. Ever see him dribble through the lane now, like he on the playground, like he is the only guy on the floor? Its bizarre, but its exactly the game that Rubio has, the ability to play and pass in space. Its shreds defenses and gets easy baskets. It just is not the Euro game.
Plus Rubio is 19 years old. . He is only two months older than Cousins, but has been a Pro for 4 years. He is seasoned and yet filled with potential. His game is made for the NBA.
Just an opinion.
by kv on May 25, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Rubio's Eurpopean Individual Awards
For those that feel that Rubio is floundering in Europe because they look at his stats:
FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship MVP 2006
Spanish League Rising Star Award 2007
3 x FIBA European Young Player of the Year 2007, 2008, 2009
2 x Spanish League Best Point Guard 2008, 2010
Mr. Europa European Player of the Year 2008
Spanish League Defensive Player of the Year 2009
Catalan Tournament MVP 2009
Euroleague Rising Star 2010
He is 19.
by kv on May 25, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I would never trade a high lottery pick unless I got a sure thing in return.
Cheap talent is the best asset a team could have. I’d rather have Cousins or Favors than D. Lee for 12 mil. In a worst case senario if our pick turns out to be a bust we didn’t sacrifice big $ for many years. Thats suicide.
Agreed. Having the third pick and the opportunity to take Favors to fill our biggest area of need is big luck on our part….favors could be the next amare with soon to be 19 year old knees, amazing athleticism, great character for a fraction of max money.
After last season not sure how a kid with a team first attitude and great character isn’t viewed as a savior for this team. Funny is I bet the biggest cousins fans were the same ones calling cdr and twill a cancer at the break. Have always felt cdr will be sixth man of year someday soon and twill a pg. We dont need a big personality at the 4. We need a junkyard dog to rebound and play interior d. And he gets down the court like kmart in his prime. He is the perfect robin to brooks Batman.
Having the third pick and the opportunity to take Favors to fill our biggest area of need is big luck on our part
You can keep ignoring it all you want, but the FACT is that our biggest need is OFFENSE. We were a worse offensive team than we were a defensive one.
favors could be the next amare with soon to be 19 year old knees
I don’t get this comparison. The thought that Favors could ever come close to reaching Amare’s level on O is downright laughable. Favors strength are rebounding and defense, which happen to be Amare’s biggest weaknesses, while Amare is a premier offensive player, and Favors’ offensive game is really poor.
Funny is I bet the biggest cousins fans were the same ones calling cdr and twill a cancer at the break.
Personally, I love those kids and am those 2’s biggest fan, and have always defended them from those who called headcases or cancers.
Haven't you ever heard the best offense is a great defense?
And I don’t understand why you’re acting like Amar’e was some great offensive player coming out of school. he was probably as raw as favors (he was a high schooler remember? and not much younger than Favors now). And he’s saying pre-microfracture Amar’e when his biggest strengths were his shot blocking and rebounding. He totally changed his game after the surgery.
I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on NetsDaily
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
