Put David Lee Down as a "Maybe"
by Net Income on Mar 8, 2010 7:02 AM EST
in 2010 Free Agency
171 comments
As each of the top-tier free agents go up against the Nets, they're asked if the team's horrid record would affect what they'll do come July. Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh said it would, with Bosh basically saying, forget it. For the rest of them, it's less of an issue. David Lee, who is becoming Mr. Double-Double, likes the Nets future. "They're a clear example of a team whose talent level doesn't reflect the record" says Lee. He particularly likes the idea of playing with Brook Lopez and moving from undersized center to power forward. So does Brook Lopez. "It would be great," Lopez said, "a guy who loves to crash the offensive glass for so many extra possessions". He even thinks a frontcourt of Lopez, Lee and Yi Jianlian could work.
- Knicks' David Lee likes appeal of Nets - Fred Kerber - New York Post
- NBA Rumor: A Brook Lopez-David Lee Frontcourt In New Jersey - Aron Phillips - DIME
- Impressive Nets Forecast? - Bill Ingram - HoopsWorld
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And so it gets interesting
He even thinks a frontcourt of Lopez, Lee and Yi Jianlian could work.
never heard that one
His remark is very telling
Maybe he is just trying to be politically correct by not insulting Yi.
What DLee said tells me that he has been thinking about this for a long time. Maybe even reading our posts. We should continue to write good posts, with the possibility he is following.
Also, he could mean, that DLee could backup Lopez at times, and thus playing alongside Yi.
Sounds like he is telling the Nets “I know you like Yi alot, but don’t worry, you can still keep Yi and have me too!”.
If I was thinking how to impress Nets management, that is what I would say too.
Yi does not have the quickness to defend small forwards.
Does anybody remember what Michael Beasley did to him? And he’s not exaclty Gerald Wallace…
Perhaps DLee would offer to play SF, if it helped to keep team harmony
Why would it be assumed that Yi would have to be the SF.
In anycase, I think he is just trying to show Thorn and Kiki his good team attitude.
Thats what i was thinking
at defense dlee could play a little d on SF and on offense yi would play the sf role…i dunno how that would work though
No Lee
My geuss is that the Knicks resign him b/c Lebron is staying put. So how would they spend all that money? The big three are staying or Bosh is Chicago bound. A front court of Lopez, Lee and Yi would be a defensive disaster. Yi at 3 is, well, the dumbest thing I could imagine.
It is Lee's decision, not the Knicks
Of course the Big 2 are staying and Bosh is either staying or going to Chicago or Miami. That is a Given (to everyone but Knicks).
However, Knicks won’t know that for sure, so they will have to give up DLee’s rights.
Once they do that, Nets have opportunity to wine and dine Lee and beat any Knicks offer – because the Knicks MUST get at least 2 free agents just to have a slim chance to make the playoffs (LOL)
The Key is for Nets to make Lee there 1st target and sign him early, before the Knicks can figure out they were screwed.
So Beasley got the better of him at PF. So does does 95% of the players he guards. And Beasley didn’t go around him, he went through him. The point is if fast players go around Yi at SF a good coach will have two bigs to protect the lane. Interior defense is the key. Let me know when we have a coach who knows that.
Mmm...
Interesting that DLee mentioned CD-R as one of the good, appealing pieces we have.
And it’s also interesting that Brook likes the idea of playing him, Lee and Yi.
I’ve been against giving Lee the big bucks, but beggars can’t be choosers. The guy could bring some needed rebounding and passing ability to this team. I’d rather bring in someone like Tyrus Thomas though, as he’s a better defensive player and would cost half the money Lee would command.
If we sign Lee, we CAN still play defense
I think people are confusing Lee for someone who is a complete liability on the defensive end. That, he’s not. Does he have his fair share of defensive issues to sort out? Yes. But, by no means is he a lost cause, nor does signing him make a defensive mindset impossible to implement. Before you dismiss his defensive capabilities, take a second to think about the Knicks systems he’s played in (and coaches he’s played for, AND “point guards” he’s played with).
I, for one, would like us to pursue him if it became apparent that none of the ‘top-tier’ free agents were coming. He has a fantastic attitude – loves seeing his team mates succeed, hates to lose – and he never seems to take a possession off. We could do a lot worse than signing him.
'The Crossover' - a Nets and Knicks podcast. http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=268817312
What top-tier free agents?
There is really only LeBron and DWade and it would be clear from JayZ about LeBron. DWade wouldn’t come without Bosh and Nets don’t have the $ for both. Some would prefer DLee over Bosh, considering cost too. Besides Bosh was clear about not playing for Nets.
I would prefer DLee over Amare – who would be trying for a Max contract. Let the Knicks end up with Amare, in the D’Antoni style. Who else would be better – not Boozer. Joe Johnson is going to be aging on his max contract.
The bottom line is that there needs to be no hesitation if Nets want to steal DLee from Knicks. Just Go For It.
Of course don’t announce one’s intentions ahead of time.
Rod is a good Poker Player.
Yi Out For The Rest Of The Season?
That sprained ankle looked pretty bad, I bet Yi will be out for the rest of the season. A chance for us to see what THE HUMPH has, playing 30 minutes a game, and also a chance to see if Boone has anything at all. As far as David Lee is concerned…I don’t see him as a max player, but he would be a great signing for the NETS, to play PF and backup center too. With the right coach, a front line with Brook and David Lee could be pretty good for a long time.
BUT…If we don’t land Wall, our next option may be a PF, thus creating a glut at that position…So who knows what will be best to do…
Paul
Delray Beach, FL
by DelrayBeachPaulie on Mar 8, 2010 7:08 AM EST reply actions
Turner and Wall are a given to be the top 2 picks
The rest of NCAA should be spent trying to figure out the 3/4 best picks. Cousins is the only sure thing NBA Star type, but he could drop in draft because of attitude issues and we don’t know if he could coexist with Brook.
What did DLee mean about having same opinion as Amare?
Just what did Amare say?
Brook was not quoted as saying that
In the article, Brook does not say anything about Yi playing SF. He could have meant ythe 3 of them playing together in rotation.
by ispartan on Mar 8, 2010 7:36 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Politically Correct
With the expierence Lopez has had with the team he might think that until new ownership is approved, the Nets commitment to Yi is substantial. Maybe even to the point where Yi must start. Considering what has happened so far it’s not a stretch. So to endorse D.Lee and not insult Yi he suggests they all start.
Just take out Yi and put in Rudy Gay and we’re good.
So what if Gay can’t play D Yi doesn’t either. The difference between the two is that Gay can score.
Nets COULD sign both Lee and Gay, especially since the 1st year of contract could be designed to be less.
Gay is restricted, so they would have to sign DLee first and make offer to RGay that is front loaded (as NI says) so that Memphis couldn’t match.
If CLee and TWill turn our very good, then Evan Turner could play where ever needed.
DLee could fill in at backup Center as needed, so under these premises, Nets would already be one of best teams in east.
Nets though would have to give up on free agency for 2011.
We can have both...
I would love to sign both Dlee and Rudy to 5 yr 55 mill deals. Heavy upfront. We would have cap room for yrs to come and a solid team to build around.
Harris/Dooling
Clee/twill
gay/cdr
dlee/hump
brook/boone
AND THATS NOT INCLUDING DRAFT PICKS
To Lee or not to Lee, that is the question...
f Courtney and T-Will keep playing this well, and if Harris gets his game back to together, maybe we go big and take a chance on Cousins or Favors come draft day.
If not we have to sign David Lee for team chemistry and leadership. David plays hard and would be better suited at PF, his natural position. Even Clyde on MSG commented on Lee playing at PF next year and how good he could be at PF.
Don't rule out trading the #1 pick!
But only if it’s for Bron or DWade. If it’s clear to either Ferry or Riley, that they’re losing their franchise players, you could expect a sign and trade scenario. I don’t see Wade or Bron screwing either franchise over, and would agree to a sign and trade to the right team. Should the Nets land that #1 pick, then that becomes the biggest piece the Heat or Cavs could get in any trade unless OKC offers Durant, or Sacramento offers Tyreke Evans. I don’t see Bron or Wade agreeing to go to either of those squads and would probably stay put if that were the case, but I do see either Bron or Wade agreeing to a trade to the BKLN/NJ Nets!!
The heat or cavs would get their new and main building block in John Wall. Easy to sell to fans of both teams, though in the Cavs case, you can expect a long long rebound period for the organization and their fans, but they could do worse.
I can even see the Nets offering DHarris with that #1 pick. Why? Because it would give the Nets additional cap space to go out and get another star.
In the end, I do expect Wade and Bron to stay put. Wade looks more likely to leave between the two if I were to pick. If both stay put I see Wade signing for the max, while I see Bron staying in Cleveland for 2 more years and we all go through this drama again in 2012.
Huh...
Who in their right mind would give up a #1 pick for players that will be unrestricted FA’s in a couple of months?
you missed the point
again, i don’t see Bron or Wade just leaving Miami or Cleveland out in the cold. If they can do a sign and trade to help their teams out, then they’ll do it, as long as it’s to a team they’d like to go to one way or another. Yeah they can just leave their teams, but I don’t see that happening unless Miami or Cleveland really pisses off both players.
Two Max are Stupid
People,
Don’t forget Brook is due for big money in two years. Then CLee, our high draft pick. They all need money down the road.
you can go over the cap for your own players...
…as long as the owner is willing to pay the tax!! And according to all reports…Proky is a big spender and will do what it takes to have a winner.
You can go over the soft cap, but not the hard cap. With the new CBA, we don’t know how low it might be in the following years
The NBA is doing well with the present system.
I don’t think Stern would want to change that.
Then teams like Dallas, LA, etc. could be good one year and bad 2 years later if they had to drop players they could afford.
The NBA should want to promote more wealthy owners. Its good for business.
The NBA is doing well???
The majority of NBA teams are losing millions of dollars a year. The only ones not losing money are some of the big market teams. The NBA is most definitely not doing well. Plus, the owners are pushing hard for lower salaries and less guaranteed contracts. The NBA business model is just not sustainable right now for small market teams. This is why we see deals being done not because of players, but in order to save money.
weed out the owners who can't afford to lose money.
The smaller changes, such as lowering the Max salary will have a positive effect, without having to impose a hard cap, which would also hurt the small market teams with winning teams, like San Antonio.
Already players like McGrady getting 23 million is not going to happen anymore.
Unfortunately David Stern uses the buddy system to approve owners
apparently, how else can you explain moving a big market team, who’d been in the top ten of attendance until they had a massive fire sale of their top talent, like the Sonics to a small market that already has 3 teams in it. As long as Stern is the commissioner I imagine you’ll continue to see people who have no business owning teams owning them. And of course since the owners vote for commissioner, I believe, they’re going to select yes men.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
We can't even afford two max
plus no one, that’s expected to be available this off-season, is worth a max contract.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
DLee is a great character guy with a good head on his shoulders and has improved different aspects of his game every season. A few weeks ago at the Knicks legends night, DLee was the ONLY Knick out there watching the ceremony, even though he’s likely off the team nex season. That speaks volumes. He’s still quite young, and with a defensive minded coach, his defense will surely improve. It’s hard to see anybody playing defense in D’Antoni’s system. I would go so far as to SLIGHTLY over pay for him. His stock will only go up and he’s not injury prone like some starting PF’s we have this year.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Mar 8, 2010 9:52 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Also, I saw somebody mention they would rather have Tyrus Thomas, which is beyond me to begin with but… If the past 2 seasons has taught us anything, it’s that this team and front office can NOT manage players with “character issues”. Even his attitude aside, David Lee is way better than Thomas
by JohnFromLongIsland on Mar 8, 2010 9:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree...
I would rather overpay for D.Lee then take my chances on questionable character, durabilty and effort players. Lopez wants Lee and Lopez is your franchise player. Enough said…
Actually aren’t Brook Lopez and Courtney Lee (and Chris Douglas-Roberts) due for their big money at the same time with Terrence Williams following the year after?
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Mar 8, 2010 10:11 AM EST reply actions
My two cents
I’d much rather pay/trade for an established big one than take a major risk drafting one with “potential”. Pay David Lee in the off-season and stick to drafting a “slam dunk” (Evan Turner) come draft day.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Chicken or the Egg...
The problem is that the draft comes before the FA signings. Unless you are assured a player like Lee will be there for you, what do you do? The Nets need “big” men. Who do we have now? Lopez, Yi and Humphries. If we get the #3 or #4 pick, we probably will draft big.
If we can get Lee then I would love either Wall or Turner. But we draft before we sign FA’s.
I guess that why Thorn and Kiki get paid the big bucks. LOL
Yeah I actually forgot about that
Because in MLB and NFL it comes after. But regardless I don’t think any of the big men available this year are close enough to sure things to use a top 3 pick on, especially since we already have a franchise center so we don’t really need a franchise big man, and in fact a lot of the players available might clash with Lopez’s style of play. I’d much rather try to get the best player available, or the closest to a sure thing and then try and trade from our surplus of combo guards/wing men for a power forward.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Just Imagine…
Brook
DLEe
Turner
Clee(if he can continue shooting lights out)
Harris
i think that’ll be a though team to beat anyday.
I like it... I really like it....
And you don’t have to spend all our cap space money with that team.
Should have money left over for another piece or two…
The thing is....
I dont think we need to…
WE NEED to keep brook around….its going to take lots of $$ to keep him around. I know Proky has more then enough money but seriously all we need is one free agent starter and to make the right pick on draft night.
I love the idea of signing David Lee. If I were the Nets I would be on his front step at 12.01am on the day free agency begins. Give him a front loaded 5 year deal. The Knicks will renounce his rights once the season ends. If Lebron is going to leave Cleveland its going to be to NJ – but we will know about that already due to Jay-Z. As one poster mentioned, don’t be surprised to see Lebron take a 2 year deal and go thru this all again in a couple of years – at which point he’s probably a lock to come to Brooklyn.
The front loaded contract makes the most sense for this franchise. It will help to keep other teams from matching, and like Devin Harris creates added value when you have a guy making less money in future years – when you will need to be paying to resign Brook, TWill, Courtney, CDR, draft picks, etc.
I think David Lee should be our number 1 (and only free agent target) outside of Lebron, as he brings character, hard work, leadership, etc to a very young team. And a front court of David and Brook would be very nice. Plus both Brook and David Lee both like the idea of it – which is very important. Then save our free agent dollars for 2011 and make a run at Carmelo or Lebron (if he is a free agent once again…)
we need to forget about lebron and wade...
be smarter and go after guys who are likely to leave there teams
You might be right about LeBron...
Maybe LeBron sits tight for another year or two.
Meanwhile we can’t wait for LeBron. I think Nets management will target David Lee and go after him hard. Makes the most sense. They don’t like Amare or Boozer. Bosh will be targeted but the Nets won’t waste time trying to lure him. That leaves David Lee at the position we are weakest at.
I saw Lopez and Lee before the tip off and you could see they like and respect each other.
Lets hope it happens…
Lee/Cousins
D.Lee is just talking good about the Nets for leverage with the Knicks.
Yes he scores twenty and rebounds, however, he gives up twenty also.
A good rotation player on another team, not to be starting next to Lopez.
D.Lee cannot defend at the four spot top PF in the league.
D.Cousins is the the pick to put next to Lopez.
Duncan/Robinson?
They won championships.
J.Johnson at the three spot would be a great pick if the price is right.
david lee
what is everyone’s opinion of david lee’s midrange game?
also, lee is not a particularly quick pf but he is mobile enough and knows where to be at all the time and knows when to time his cuts and time his rebounds…he is a very smart player so even though he doesn’t deserve the max he will be very productive for a long time unless injuries come into play…
He 's got a nice shoot...
His shot has improved year to year. Works hard and like Lopez , always out there.
He might get close to the max and if I where the Nets I might overpay him even though he’s not a “superstar”.
No secret now, Nets and David Lee are an item… LOL
David Lee’s midrange game has really improved over the past couple of years. He is by all accounts a hard working guy who strives to continue to get better, and will do whatever his team needs him to do. You realize he is one of the leaders in double doubles in the NBA (and is near the top of the list in 20-10 games) and he is 6’9’’ and plays center on a horrible team. The Knicks have no where near the talent of our guards and nobody in the post but Lee. Imagine with TWill and Devin feeding him the ball and when teams have to focus on playing Brook. Plus Brook has the ability to knock down the 15-18 foot jumper – most centers can’t do that. So that allows the Nets to pair Brook with a paint heavy PF or a PF who can play outside. Also the Knicks play no defense – and look at the cast of players around him – so to deride him for his defense is not fair.
A Brook-David Lee pairing is preferable to a Brook – Bosh/Boozer/Amare pairing if you ask me when you figure in what his salary would be, along with his workman like attitude.
David Lee Bye-Bye Already
Just stick with drafting D.Cousins.
D.Cousins/PF 6’/11"260-LBS. B.Lopez/C 7’/1" 270-LBS.
Lee/Bosh/Boozer are not worth the money.
Stoudimeire & Johnson will be a Knicks next year.
D.Lee will end up on the bench on a good team.
Remember the bench.
How things change so quickly...
All that talk about free agents not being interested in our lowly Nets seems to ring hollow now.
We got the young talent and soon will have all the money.
Can’t wait for Bosh to send his resume any day now. LOL
al jefferson
if we get #1 and the wolves fall to #3 or #4, i would try very hard to trade devin harris for al jefferson though…that will give us a stud pf whie still having the cap space for lebron james…the wolves might try a change bec of their lousy record and at #3 or 4 they would have to take another big in favors or cousins…
Trade Harris?
I see what your thinking and the great thing about getting the #1 pick is that it gives you a lot of options.
Could T-Will and Dooling play PG while Wall gets on the job training?
Is Jefferson the PF you want?
So many ways to go between the Draft, FA’s and trades. Makes your head spin.
Meh I'm not sure Jefferson is a stud
He plays absolutely no defense, he can score but we already have a big man who can score we don’t need another one in the front court that we have to run plays through who will take touches away from Lopez.. He’s also averaging less than 10 rebounds and shooting less than 50% from the field, I know he’s close but I don’t think close qualifies you as a stud, especially when you play no defense.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
D >= than D Lee
al jefferson is no d-ho on defense but he is at least better or equal to david lee in that department.
al jefferson is also cheap ($12M/yr)
he is younger than david lee (born 1985)
he is a true low post presence, someome we don’t have…unlike brook (robotic) or d-lee (no low post moves at all)…he is a dump-it-to-him-and score type of guy who can get the nets’ high-powered offense (featuring wall, lee and lebron ;) ) going if it stalls. in fact, he is truer at the post than bosh, boozer and amare.
he is still getting his game going after the injury he suffered last year but he was competing with d-ho for most double-doubles before that…
Yeah but you'd have to take touches away from Lopez
it makes no sense to put them in the same front court, whether Lopez or robotic or not he’s our franchise offensive post player. It doesn’t make sense to bring in a similar type. Lee doesn’t need offensive plays run through him and is much more efficient on the boards.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
it makes sense...
that lee doesn’t need the ball to contribute and that makes him a good complementary player to brook…never thought of it that way…however, what happens when brook sits or goes down with an injury? we are now left with d-lee, yi and hump…anyway, the nets might not get #1 and the wolves won’t just give away al jefferson so it is a remote possibility anyway…
And 12m a year is no where near cheap
David Lee isn’t expected to get anywhere near that in FA, and that’s nearly max money. Jefferson isn’t worth max money.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
definition of near max money
it depends on your definition of ‘near max’…the max is 30% of salary cap so if the projected $55M rings true then max is $16.5M…$4.5M more than al jefferson’s ‘near max’…also, there is colectively more cap space competing for a handful of free agents so teams are more likely to overpay…
nxt yrs startin lineups
its like this:
john wall if we get the number 1 pick with harris as 6th man
clee unless we end up with the 2nd pick then we’ll get turner.
rudy gay with twill backin him up
dlee with humphries behind him
brook with dallas pick or a cheap free agent.
and with the other 2 picks sign a 3rd string pg with a good sg/sf lik stevenson.
Yi is not a NBA starter
Very few NBA players will come out and insult another player. It’s pretty safe to say that David Lee (and the Nets) knows that Yi is not a starter in this league. He has had his chance this year and has proven that he doesn’t have the shooting touch, the inside game or the defensive ability to be a starter in the NBA. Next year, when the Nets are better (they can’t be worse, can they?), and have a few players who are not in their final contract year and/or awful, Yi will not start. He will come off the bench and, if he’s playing well, maybe get 15-20 minutes and if he’s playing poorly, get 10 minutes.
Well said...
Unless Yi improves his game over the summer he should most likely be coming off the bench next season.. Even though I have been rooting hard for Yi, what’s best for the team is the bottom line. Yi might even flourish in his new role.
Here’s hoping Yi gets well soon and that the Nets win tonight.
Lets go Nets…
Agreed. Fact is if the Nets try to sell us Yi next year again they’ll be insulting people’s intelligence. I’d like a completely honest scouting report from the Nets on Yi right now. I’m curious what they’d say
Kiki called Yi a project last week.
Yi has been playing to many minutes and is being exposed.
Less minutes might mean better Yi.
Yi would be decent in another sport
He should have called Yi a volleyball player. He taps, doesn’t like to grab rebounds.
I don't want us to end up overpaying second tier guys, but...
A starting lineup of Harris, Wall/Turner, Gay, DLee, and Lopez sounds pretty good on offense. Hire a defense minded coach who will really force them to work hard on the other end, and that’s a four seed in the east next year. We would be like a better version of Memphis.
Don't think Gay is in Nets master plan.
I can see Proky bringing in AK-47 sometime next year. He needs someone to chew the fat with. LOL
He's not supposed to be a hands on owner
He is supposed to listen to Thorn’s advice, which would be to wait until later next season to discuss getting AK-47, if he is still playing well.
gay
Not a fan of signing Rudy Gay. First is that if you sign Gay to a contract (figure its 5 years) you have taken yourself out of consideration for Lebron (in 2 years) or Carmelo (next year). Is Gay worth $50 million over 5 years when you can have CDR and TWill fill that role at a fraction of the price if it comes down to that. Also that Dallas pick could ultimately land us another wing player to fit into the rotation along with our 31st pick. So not sure signing Gay makes the most sense for this team. I think best to focus on BPA at our pick and then make a run at David Lee in free agency.
The interesting thing will be if we end up with the third pick or fourth pick in the draft. Even though I think Cousins is an absolute beast – the more I read about him the more I think the Nets will steer clear of him. I don’t think think they will chance adding another young questionable character guy to this team. Favors would be the best fit as a big – as he is a rebounding big who will immediately help Brook down low. But he is still young, definitely a project. We could even see us look to trade out of the 3 spot and move to the 4th or 5th spot.
Kissing Cousins...
If Cousins is really a “beast”, we might have to roll the dice on him. Players that big and bad don’t come around that often. Our new coach will probably know how to handle and develop a problem child. No pain, no gain…
Kissing Cousins.....
@MIKE – I totally understand the view that if Cousins has the potential that he is showing with UK that at 3 you have to seriously consider him especially since PF is our area of need. Obviously you have to determine whether his style of play will mesh well with Brook and allow them to play on the floor together. But more importantly…you can not afford to strike out with the third pick. If a guy has the potential to be a distraction or there are serious concerns about him keeping his head together you have to pass. He is going to either earn someone GM of the year or get fired. He is pure risk/reward. On a young team in the NYC market – not sure you can take a shot there. If you are at 3/4 you have to go big. Favors probably gets the nod as he is a traditional PF, is a gifted rebounder and is considered one of the nicest kids in college hoops.
Do me a Favors...
If Favors is the favorite at PF lets get him. We then can concentrate on SF our next big weakness.
Stay With Cousins
D.Cousins is a stud and will be a asset to B.Lopez down low.
Remember we dont have a NBA backup CENTER FOR b.lOPEZ
Remember – the way the Nets are constructed and will be constructed – the PF is going to be a third or fourth option. The offense will be run through Brook and the guard position. So when drafting or signing a FA PF – high character is a must. The Nets need a guy who is a team first guy, rather than a me first guy. Cousins taunting fans, etc doesn’t necessarily fit well with that. Thats another big reason why Favors gets the nod over Cousins.
I see your point, but...
With a rich owner like Proky he can draft a Cousins, big risk big gain player, and still sign a David Lee or Boozer type PF.
With big money you can buy off your big mistakes.
It doesn't make any sense to do that though
if you’re going to be paying Lee then whats the point of drafting Cousins? You’re not going to give Lee 5/50 to sit on the bench, and you’re not going to use the number 1 or 2 pick on a bench player, plus if Lee’s getting the playing time when are you going to find out what you have with Cousins and who’s to say his bad attitude won’t get any worse if he’s not starting. it makes way more since to draft a sure thing, and then trade from the surplus of wing players for a more established pf, or a project type like Cousins who doesn’t have attitude concerns.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Money
Why make the mistake and exercise your money/welth.
D.Cousins is not a risk just youth, talent, height, weight and heart.
Now how players have all five incredients like this PF.
Its Rare.
Risk is for the weak.
There is risk taking anybody in th edrasft or F/A.
You are going to be surprise how smart and not foolish M.Prokhorov will be running this team with his money.
The other majority partners are smart and wealthy also.
Calling all "Bigs"...
Either way, thru draft, FA’s or trade, we need some “big” men.
Can’t go thru next season with Lopez, Yi and Hump and nobody else.
Makes no sense to go Favors/Cousins with a top 4 pick and then sign a big name FA (David Lee) to a 5 year deal. A top 4 pick is expected to be a starter from Day 1 – particularly on a young team coming off a horrible season.
If we get a top 2 pick – we end up with either Turner or Wall. Honestly I prefer Turner over Wall, but if we get the top pick – we are going Wall.
If we get the third pick – I think Nets seriously look to trade back 1 spot – if the 4 team desperately wants Cousins. Offering to swap picks while picking up their 2nd round pick would work.
If we get the fourth pick – I think we take Favors. He makes the most sense for our team needs – and you have a very young front court duo to grow together. He also will immediately help Brook with rebounding and paint defense.
I see your point, but...
What are we going to do with all these “little” guards and wings. Harris, Lee, T-Will, CDR, Wall/Turner, Dooling, Hassel (I think he’s coming back).
Trade one of them for another need
it’s better to have too many good players then take a huge risk.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Cousins not athletic enough
In College Cousins can just run thru players but in the NBA you have to be somewhat athletic. All his alley-opps that I have seen he barely gets over the rim. He looks to be terrible defensively, I don’t know about his work ethic, he has one of those bodies that can go downhill quick.
Agreed he's not going to be able to do the same things against
longer, stronger and more athletic NBA front courts where the talented isn’t nearly as diluted as in the NCAA.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Status
D.Cousins
6’/11" 260lbs is not strong enough to go against NBA PF’s?
breaking th erecord for Double Doubles at Kentucky in one year as a freshman does not show promise?
I guess I am very confuse about this young man of power and talent.
Player shave to complement each other to win it all.
B.Lopez needs badly a PF next to him.
K.Humphries is as solid second unit PF for our team next year.
Wrong!
D.Cousins is the second coming of C.Barkley with six more inches in height.
The guy will watch B.Lopez’s back, rebound, score near the basket and defend.
Alley-opps are not something to worry about with him in the NBA.
Lopez will do that while Cousins rebounds and plays the boards for his dunks.
The guy is a beast and has the body of a developed NBA player at 19.
6’/11" 260lbs of muscle is not made everyday at 19.
OUCH!
Cousins/Lopez as to Duncan/Robinson
Whats really going to be interesting will be what we do with the Dallas pick and the 31st pick. We should be able to find 2 guys to be a part of our bench rotation for the future – and I think what we do will be telling on what the front office thinks/intends to do with certain players (CDR, Devin, TWill). Do you stockpile another athletic wing? Do you take Sherron Collins at 31 as a backup PG? Do you take a flier on a big (Jarvis Varnado, etc)?
@31
We take Andy Rautins of Syracuse to play behind D.Harris & K.Dooling.
Andy Rautins could learn for a year along with contributing the following year once he adjust.
S.Collins is tough small college palyer.
His speed is not enough to overcome his size at the NBA level.
D-Lee Athletic, and can pass
The thing people forget about D-Lee is he is very athletic, quick off his feet, and a great passer at his position. In terms of defense he’s guarding 7 footers everyday what do you expect him to do. Against power forwards he will be able to move his feet quick enough to do he job, and he’s still about 26 I believe, I think he’s one of those glue guys you need combined with the talent. I mean he was an allstar and has played at a really high level, system or no system.
Yeah Cousins has had weight issues and conditioning issues since high school. With questions concerning his mental makeup – and millions of dollars and ample free time on his hands – does he become another Eddy Curry type guy who battles with weight issues his entire career – and becomes irrelevant at 25?
Like I said – he will either lead to a GM winning GM of the year or getting fired someday.
Hopefully we're drafting a guard
Anything worse than the number 2 pick is going to be a monumental loss. This team needs a stud guard for the next era. If we’re looking at power forwards we really lost
Yeah
Cousins will be an awesome offensive player one day. But he’ll get killed on the defensive end. Plus he’ll force you to play slow, since he’s not one to be running up and down the court. His mental maturity is a big question mark as well. Likely scenario for him would be Zach Randolph. Will give you 20-10 numbers but lotsa legal problems. And it’s his 5th team or what that’ll reap the rewards when he finally gets it, not the team that drafts him
He doesn't look overweight to me, the way he moves.
Maybe he’ll be like Shaq, who got fat after 8 or so years in the league, but was still better than everyone else.
Blair looks overweight to me, yet Nets fans wanted him for PF.
I’d still like to stick with best player available. No matter the draft position, take the best player available. If we get the first pick, take Wall. I don’t care that we already have a point guard. Doesn’t Kirk Hinrich start alongside Derrick Rose? If we get the second pick, then the decision is already made for us, it’s Turner. Number 3? There is where it gets tricky. I like Derrick Favors. He’s athletic and defensive. And is a solid character guy. Unselfish, hard worker. Third best prospect there is.
My FA Sleeper
If Lebron signs a 2 year deal to remain in Cleveland – he is essentially telling the entire league he is going to play for the Nets and leave Cleveland – once Brooklyn opens. Don’t rule this out. Especially because he can spin it as wanting to stay in Cleveland and win a championship with this core of guys. And then reassess.
If this happens – I would sign Joe Alexander to a 3 year deal for about 1.5 million a year. I think this guy is a real sleeper and is going to ultimately be very good. His problem was that he had very little basketball experience and should not have gone 8 in that draft. Especially considering that the Bucks had just gotten RJ. It never made any sense. He was buried on the bench and then has been injured this season. I put together a breakdown of his stats compared to other collegiate wings on a per minute basis. I then looked at how they performed in their first 3 NBA seasons. Expect to see a big improvement from Alexander in the next 2 years.
If he fails to develop you have lost 1.5 million a year and bury him on the bench. But he offers an enticing prospect at very good value at this point.
Sleeper
Lebron will sign for three years in Cleveland. Then he will be only 28.
At 28 he will so many options to think about.
The arena will take three years to build because of serious construction issues.
Prudential for three years not two.
I be at the 1:30pm Ceremony Thursday.
Cannot wait for reality.
Here is a real scenario to consider.
At 28 LeBron signs with L.A.Clippers.
B.Griffin/PF L.James/SF C.Kaman/C E.Gordon/SG
The key to this scenario is that he already has his movie company out there with all his homeboys from Cleveland runnig it for him.
Anothe rimportant element is that in three years K.Bryant will be 35 or 36 at that time and should calling it a day.
Just ask yourself B.Griffin and L.James.
How sick is that.
Timing is everything.
I know nobody wants to hear this, but...
Lopez will be in his third year next season and it would be nice to have a center waiting in the wings in case he decides to walk in two short years.
All these “little” players are nice, Wall, Turner etc., but “big” guys rule the NBA, and yes, LeBron and Kobe are both big guys, 6’7" and over, and they play like big guys.
I would even consider drafting Whiteside if he comes out or Aldrich..
I agree that we need to draft a backup center – and if we don’t, we need to resign Boone.
Whiteside is a hot prospect right now – but you have to worry about the competition he has faced.
Aldrich is going to be an NBA backup – never a star. If he drops (unlikely) take him with Dallas pick. If not – we may have to take Solomon Alabi from FSU with the Dallas pick. He has little basketball experience and is a project – but has dropped recently with a string of subpar offensive games. As a backup – we could afford to groom him for a few years – even sending him to the D League for much of next year.
Boone or bust...
If Boone is our #1 backup big man next year we are in deep doo-doo.
I might be the only Nets fan hoping that we get the #3 or 4 pick come May 18th. LOL
You can’t send a #1 pick to the D-League. Maybe European league but not the D-League.
Center
Back up center needs to hit free throws and not struggle at the line.
Usually the back up center bangs and gets foul, so shooting free throws is important in their game.
Bye- bye Boone and Alabi is a headache also from the line the last time I watch.
I hope I am wrong.
Further Proof that big men rule.
Look at Cleveland and Orlando and the Lakers. Their guards are not anything to write home about. I don’t consider LeBron and Kobe guards so don’t use that argument.
Why don't you consider Kobe a guard?
And why couldn’t Turner play a similar role to Kobe? He’s 6-6 and long. Plus we have a franchise big name and with Prokhy there’s absolutely zero excuse for not locking him up long-term. Along with that no one is saying big men don’t rule, we’re saying Cousins is too much of a question mark to invest a top pick in. If you want a big man pay for an established one or trade for an established one, don’t pick one with huge question marks both about his character, work ethic and ability for his game to translate to the NBA, that doesn’t help solve your big man problem it just gives you more questions and problems.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
You might be right, I may be crazy....
If Cousins is rated top 5 pick by consenus, close to Wall and Turner in potential, I say you go for him. A lot of teams top picks have been busts for one reason or another. Wall and Turner can turn out to be busts.
If you can’t stomach Cousins then go for Favors or Whiteside.
Lets think “big”.
Big men bust at a MUCH higher rate than guards
which is why it makes sense to go for the sure thing in Turner. You can think big in free agency or with GS or Dallas’s picks. With a top 3 pick you need to think the biggest and least variable return on your investment.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Well a part of the reason big men bust at such a high rate is because GMs are idiots. They take big men 10 spots to early almost all the time. You can’t teach height they say. But times are changing a bit. The emergence of the super point guards are changing the thinking a little bit. 5 years ago Derrick Rose would never have gone before Mike Beasley. And Portland is regretting taking Oden right about,,, now.
Think Big
Risk comes with anybody.
Cousin is not anymore arisk then what some clown reporter is saying.
Nets new management have to step in more and guide the young man.
This should be a normal practice with all players and management.
Stay Thinking BIG.
Cousins/Aldrich/Johnson are the answers.
John at SF is 6’/8"
Plays like S.Pippen with a better jump shot. (Superior shot I might add)
The guy has the wing span of a seven footer and along with not being soft.
Just imagine Cousins/Lopez and then Johnson down under the boards.
Sick
A Dynamic Trio of Sick
And Cleveland’s bigs are something to write home about? They were good even before the Jamison trade, remember that. Fact is they the Lakers and the Cavs have the two best players in the NBA. If you plug in a regular swingman in Cleveland they’d be several games under .500.
How are the Timberwolves doing? They have quite the big men tandem
What about Boston? Most of their big stars are on the perimeter. They won a championship a while back. What about Chicago? Derrick Rose is the one making that team run. What about OKC? Do they have really good bigs? Does Houston? How about the Heat?
A team with good bigs and bad perimeter players would be a bad team just like a team with good perimeter player and bad big men.
And isn’t Kobe the prototypical shooting guard? He doesn’t even play small forward. How can you not consider him a guard? He’s not even part point guard. He’s pure, unadulterated shooting guard
Also a good example of this
Sacremento took Evans despite having K-mart already, and once Evans proved he could produce in the NBA they traded K-mart for an established big man in Carl Landry. If Wall or Turner prove they can be just as productive as Harris, and T-will proves he can handle the pg job, we can move Harris in a similar type of deal.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
this is my hope, that we draft Turner or Wall and then move Harris for more talent. I am rooting hard for Terrence to become an NBA point guard. He has the potential.
"No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it."
by MrDollarBills on Mar 8, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
OK, this is my 1st post for today and this thread is looking real interesting. I usually wait for the games to start but for starters Lopez is our Franchise guy and if he feels that bringing in Lee would do this team better then I say Thorn better listen up Proky better come out them pockets and go after Lee. There’s nothing worse then upsetting your Franchise guy if he feels this team is doing nothing to improve for the better then best believe he’s walking when his contract is up so this team better find anyway to make Lopez happy if he goes then we’re done.
I don't understand how you can possibly not be getting what people are saying
there’s a complete difference between “big men are not important” and “these individual players, Cousins specifically, have to many question marks to merit a top 3-5 pick”
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
har har
Not saying they’re not important, but to say that they are without a doubt the be all and end all of the NBA is to ignore the changes that have happened over the last few years. Heck, even big men are playing like perimeter guys now. The mobile power forward is the norm now, not the burly slow Charles Oakley type.
Do you deny the greater emphasis on the perimeter new rule changes have made?
post over at 48minutesofhell says something about this:
“LeBron James currently leads the league with 26.3 wins added. Dwyane Wade is second, with 18.3 wins added. That is an 8-win gap. The size of the gap between James and Wade is the size of the gap between Wade and Marc Gasol, who is currently 18th in Wins added. If the Cavs had lost eight more games, they would be behind the Magic for the lead in the East, and right in the mix with Boston and Atlanta.
James, Wade, and Durant are the only players with more than 15 wins added. Only nine players have half as many wins added as James does so far this season. The gap between James and Dirk Nowitzki, who is currently #8 in wins added, is the size of the gap between Dirk and Dante Cunningham, who is tied for 198th in wins added.
According to EWA, if James was replaced with a replacement-level small forward like Mickael Pietrus, the Cavaliers would be 23-41. That would make them a slightly worse team than the Clippers this season.
Early last decade, the Spurs built their roster with an aim toward beating the Kobe-Shaq Lakers. But the game has changed, and the next decade requires a roster designed to slow the league’s best wings. "
Just answer the question, please...
Who would you rather of drafted. Rose or Lopez? Evans or Lopez? In fact Brook Lopez might be the best player drafted in the last 2 years when so many “little” players where taken.
Case closed.
Thats has absolutely nothing to do with Cousins
because Cousins and Lopez have nothing in common. Lopez was a polished product with well developed post moves and a great work ethic and character. Cousins has no post moves, lacks in athleticism and pretty much just overpowers undersized NCAA front courts, has a questionable work ethic and character issues.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I think you win with bigs – but there are very few franchise big men alive – along with the hand checking rule – that is why there is an emergence of guards/wings in todays NBA. Look Brook is a franchise big man. We are very very lucky to have him. But you can’t draft a backup center with our pick. We have too many other needs to use our pick on a guy to play 10 minutes a night. If we are able to get a backup center with the Dallas pick thats great (Alabi). If not, we need to resign Boone as our backup center. Brook is going to play 35 min a night to begin with – and if he gets injured….we are in the lottery next year anyways. So you can’t take Brook’s backup with a top 4 pick. Makes no sense.
MIKE you just answered your own question. We hav be our franchise big man. We can’t take his backup with a top 4 pick. Cousins may not be able to play the PF next to Lopez and has serious character concerns along with weight/conditioning issues. This team can not afford that risk right now. If you are 3 or 4th pick – you have to take Favors as he can play next to Lopez. You can’t take Whiteside or Aldrich at 4 – as that is too early and why use our lottery pick on a backup center for our franchise player? That doesn’t make sense. We have too many team needs.
Please don't let me be misunderstood...
If you can’t get Wall or Turner who are you going to draft.?
I say draft “big”. If Cousins is to much of a risk, draft Favors or Whiteside or Aldrich.
We need some big men. Yi, Humphries and Boone just don’t cut it.
Plus there is no guarantee you are going to sign D.Lee, Amare, Boozer etc.
And who are you going to get in a trade. Garnett?
Better yet...
If Wall, Turner and Favors are gone when we draft, what are you going to do. Quit? LOL
Trade the pick?
Punt?
David Lee
I would love to have David Lee as apart our team, especially if we get a chance to see him playing at his natural position. A guy that can shoot outside, and will grab 10+ reb every night, and will get his points as they come to him. Fits very nice next to Brook without a doubt. Then if Evan Turner decides to come out, and we land him, we could have a full turn around. Turner is a definite leader who can take over a game, and he plays SF. Looks good on paper, just needs coaching, and a sure bench. T-Will for 6th man of the month
If we have a top 2 pick – Nets are deciding between Wall and Turner. No disputing that. Its if they have the 3 or 4 pick that it gets interesting. Then they essentially have to go with Favors or look to trade down and pick up a pick. @jasperjarrod – If we end up with a top 2 pick – it will really matter who is drafting 3, 4, 5 in terms of being able to trade up. If any team has the assets to make this happen – it is us. But it will depend on team needs behind us. For instance, if we could offer Dallas pick, protected Golden State pick and maybe a 2011 second round pick – it makes sense. In that scenario you come away with Wall/Turner and get Favors. It means next season could be another long long year for this team – but the future potential is unmatched.
Why can't we have our cake and it eat too?
In your scenario you get Wall/Turner and Favors.
Why not then sign D.Lee?
Favors can backup Lopez and Lee immediately.
If he turns out to be a stud, great. The more good big men, the better.
Then next season rotation would look like this….
Harris,
Wall/Turner, Courtney Lee
TWill, CDR
Favors, Hump, Yi
Lopez
You would have to keep Keyon and probably resign Jarvis for veteran leadership. With the 31st pick – you probably target Sherron Collins as a true backup PG.
If you traded up for Favors – the Nets have no intention of signing a David Lee, Boozer or Amare – as they have clearly stated they are going to develop Favors and Lopez as front court of the future.
We would have a hole at the 3 – but I believe TWill, Harris and Turner/Wall could play on the court at the same time – with TWill initiating the offense as a point forward.
I think you basically steer clear of the free agent market this season then (unless you can get Lebron) and let this young cast develop thru heavy minutes playing together. In free agency, you take a flier on a young fallen angel like Joe Alexander, and you bring in a few veteran high character type guys to provide leadership.
Then in 2011 you make a full court press for Carmelo or Durant. Only a season away from Brooklyn – this team is a young, exciting destination for a SF.
Some of the line-ups I have seen are very out of wack, and the expectations of free agency are a little overboard to say the least. I want to see Rudy Gay stay away from Jersey, solely because of his awful defensive reputation. When you play the amount of min he plays, there really is no way to excuse being the worst defender in the league.
If we draft Turner then sign Lee he would play SF, the line up would look some thing like this:
Harris
Lee
Turner
Lee
Lopez
Evan is 6’8, he will add weight before and after the draft. No doubt he can play SF
Under that scenario you can’t sign David Lee – as you have to keep cap space for a SF along with having to resign your young players in a year or two. Wouldn’t make sense from a cap perspective to give up picks to move into a position to draft Favors and then take on a 5 year 50+ million contract for David Lee. That trade would signify the Nets are really sold on Favors and fully intend to develop him and Brook together…
Not going to happen...
Can you imagine if the Nets did not sign a big FA this summer. Mr. Billionaire doesn’t spend a nickel. The Nets are going into the free agent market head first. David Lee is going to be a very rich man, one way or the other.
I really would like to see David Lee on this team…..BUT you could easily make the argument that it would make more sense for them to put together a package of the Dallas pick, and future picks to trade into the 4th pick (assuming they are picking top 2) and take Favors. Then you either sign Lebron to a young team or you don’t. If you don’t you have a veteran coaching staff who’s primary focus is on continued development of Lopez, Lee, TWill, CDR along with the development of Wall/Turner and Favors. They probably only win 20-25 games next season – but that could be a championship caliber young core – with cap space saved for a big name wing in 2011 and enough money to keep the core together.
Worst thing we could do (and what the Knicks will definitely do) is to overpay for a second or third tier free agent and kill future cap space.
Yeah I agree
I would only want Lee if they could get him for less than 10 million per. I think under the new CBA player contracts are going to see a somewhat major deduction and paying 10 million for the next 5 years to lee, considering 30 million of that will be for his age 30,31 and 32 seasons, would be an albatross contract.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
You dont kill you cap sapce. We have plenty. You resign no one, but CDR this off season. That may mean let Dooling walk, but T-Will wants to run point, and why not he has improved, and is still learning, andbaring injury you have Turner at point. Then you sign David Lee, and someone like Chuck Hayes(Very very good low post defender) who will go under paid, and unnoticed.
DeMarcus Cousins is a beast
This kid is an animal. If we have the 3th-4th pick, we must take him, IMO.
1. Turner
2. Wall
3. Cousins
4. Favors/ Johnson
Dooling has 500k buy out. Chuck Hayes is an interesting choice – but Houston values him highly.
My point on cap space was strictly based on the assumption I spun to answer jasperjarrod’s question. That was if we had a top 2 pick and then looked to trade into the 4th spot for Favors/Cousins…If we were to trade future picks to get to the 4th pick – it wouldn’t make sense to give a contract to David Lee as front office clearly would have committed to Favors/Cousins as the PF of the future. Why tie up cap space to sign Lee then – under that scenario? It makes no sense. It was strictly based off the hypothetical situation of having 2 of the first 4 picks in the draft.
Yes very true. I do not believe that Houston values Hayes that much though. The low amount of minutes he plays is questionable
by Jid on Mar 8, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
The pacers might be interested with Harris if we get the top 2 pick in exchange for their pick.
by jasperjarrod on Mar 8, 2010 4:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
What this says to me
is that David Lee is frustrated. The Knicks have done nothing to upgrade their front court and after he showed loyalty by accepting a $7 million one year deal, the Knicks have encouraged talk of them signing two max players - and renouncing his rights.
And I reiterate, the Nets are far more likely to try playing Harris and Wall together in the backcourt than they are trading Harris. I don’t care how good Wall is, 19 year old point guards don’t learn that fast.
Besides, has anyone but me noticed how well Harris is playing lately?
backup center
i love dlee on the nets. I would love gay at the sf. i also would like to see kyle korver brought in as a shooter. Most of all with our 2nd pick we need to draft a young backup center. We need a young athletic shot blocking dunking center. Someone that gives a different look than lopez. A Joakim noah type.
I agree with the commentors that thinks we should make a run at lee earlier. With the negativity from Bosh not wanting Boozer and Lee being a better fit than Amare in term of style, cost, age and injuries. It would make sense to sign Lee early for a couple of reasons. We don’t get inot a bidding war with the knicks and basiclly get him from the knicks. We also hopefully get him a little cheaper because of not being in a weak position and having to overpay the lower tier free agent. Lee is a hard worker and we have the inside track because he lieks the area. If we got after him earlier he’ll be happier to sign and for less money and no bidding war with other teams that get screwed. I realise my thoguth were random sorry.
Yes, sign Lee early in July.
Then Nets already would have a good team to attract a second FA, but they wouldn’t be pressured to do so. They could always wait until 2011, unless something good developed with getting RGay for a reasonable price for example.
- - John Wall
- - Evan Turner
- - DeMarcus Cousins
- - ????
- - Greg Monroe
- - Sherron Collins
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Mar 9, 2010 10:34 PM EST reply actions
DeMarcus Cousins = Our J.J. Hickson.
If we get him – then our answer for head coach is easy.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Mar 9, 2010 10:39 PM EST reply actions
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