Vecsey: Yormark Undermined Thorn
by Net Income on Oct 3, 2010 9:03 AM EDT
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PrintPeter Vecsey tries his hand at unraveling the big mystery of the Nets' off-season, why Rod Thorn left the Nets. Although he doesn't come up with a definitive answer, he makes it clear one big reason was Brett Yormark. The Nets CEO, Vecsey writes, tried every which way to dump Thorn and bring back John Calipari, something Thorn confirms.
"Had Yormark owned enough clout he positively would've brought back Calipari to run the show," Thorn tells Vecsey. "I don't deny my dislike for the guy."
For years, reports Vecsey, Yormark did everything he could to undermine Thorn. Yormark had gotten down on Thorn feeling he'd gotten lazy and done a poor job and began a campaign of leaks, he adds.
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My Respect for Thorn
just shot through the roof.
Love the honesty.
Ever see a guy say "goodbye" to a shoe before?!
To restate my post from earlier.
Apparently we can’t call Yormarket a something bag. (Begins with D.) The guy is not only an embarrassing putz, he also involves himself in stuff he should have no business doing. IE; Basketball. And of course he’s being a jerk to Thorn on top of the fact that he’s Ratner’s guy. This post was clearer last time, now what I’m trying to say is a jumble.
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
Or maybe smaller cities don’t have such a large group of sports writers, looking for some new gossup to write about.
exactly
i doubt bucks, kings and jazz fans have to deal with all this stuff every offseason.
LOL so true...
This offseason has been like pro wrestling… All gossip and corny storylines, no actual sport.
by JohnFromLongIsland on Oct 3, 2010 11:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So, Yormark works against the organisation
and tries to replace rod with slimeball calipari and yet Yormark is still around and Rods gone…what kind of leverage does Yormark have here? How is this guy still around when he’s been working against the President? Thanks Yormark! Now we got BK – Have it your way a.k.a let’s trade Harris and Favors for Melo King!
I DO dislike Yomark too.
His altercation with a fan was ugly. Yomark implied it was unpatriotic to wear a paper bag, but let me ask you Brett are those reversible jerseys patriotic?? What a shame!
I wonder if Yormarket will be present for the China games?
Will he be wearing a paper bag himself, now that Yi won’t be there?
And recently we learned of the Ratner-China connection, for the purpose of getting financing from wealthier Chinese looking to become permanent residents of the USA, by making large contributions (if it wasn’t legal, it would be called Bribery)
We now can assume that Ratner and Yormarket communicated extensively in these business dealings. Nothing wrong with that, except Basketball success was secondary.
If Vecsey would stick to the facts, the story would be story would be chopped by 70%.
It seems like he has a few genuine quotes, embellished by Vecsey’s loud thinking.
On the other hand, with Vecsey not being a Beat writer, he can reveal where some of the leaks were coming from. However, not being a Beat writer, he gets lots of second hand info.
Story gives reason to dislike both Thorn and Yormarket.
I guess now we know where leaks such as Calipari for Coach came from. At least we know that Thorn wasn’t behind it.
We can surmise now, that this is why Thorn liked JVG. Rod felt comfortable with him. And Thorn and Avery were never close, so it wasn’t until after other options were gone, before Rod took a chance with Avery.
In the end, Avery+King is a good choice for winning, but the question is now raised, whether Yormarket has some input – with the Russians – to encourage King to make a bad trade, just to get Melo, for Marketing purposes.
but he makes a good point
If Yormark has ANY impact on player personnel decisions, you know it’s about filling up the seats a lot more than it is about getting Ws. This article certainly gives the impression that any communication that Thorn had with Ratner ended up getting distilled through Yormark as well….. not to say necessarily that Yormark had veto power, but that he had an uncomfortable degree of influence, considering he knows nothing about what works on the court.
What the Nets are willing to sacrifice to get Carmelo Anthony seems like an obvious case in point. Carmelo will DEFINITELY be more of a draw than Harris/Favors and all the other considerations, but it’s as if balancing the roster and team chemistry are not even part of the equation. The hand of Yormark at work.
Well he was porbably big on keeping Yi around with Kiki back him up.
Thorn might have be dealt him earlier IMO.
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
We are a fansite and entitled to make our own interpretations of the facts that are presented.
But as time goes on more evidence keeps coming forward that the Yi-Kiki-Yormarket association vs. Thorn, has been a big part of the past couple of years. And Rod was always out to protect himself.
We now also know that Ratner was closer to Yormarket than the public previously knew.
Funny, that had Yi actually developed into the Chinese version of Dirk Nowitzki, everything would be different.
you regulary engage
in WILD assumptions that have no basis in fact.
Respect the difference between what you know and what you think. You reguarly confuse the two.
by Net Income on Oct 3, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Your story headline was "Yormark Undermined Thorn"
So do your remarks that suggest I am making WILD assumptions, mean that you disagree with your own headline, that cites Peter Vecsey?
We still haven’t heard your opinion on the suggested close relation between Ratner and Yormarket and dislike from Thorn.
But that is Okay, since both are still part of the Nets organization.
If there was any truth to this.......
NI would have picked up on this a long time ago and posted to us about how Yormark is running Thorn out of town……NI always keeps us updated on anything that is going on in Netsland…….
Beh Yormark is really Ratner's guy and at the end of the day Avery probably has the most influence
Which is a better situation if you ask me
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
Most of the quotes on these trades were from "a league source" not "a Nets insider" as Melo is.
I would assume Agents are the biggest source of leaks.
again
you simply don’t know.
A “league source” can be someone who works for the league, a team or an agent.
Why don't you give us your best rundown of all the posibilities so that we can be prepared next time we read about the source. That would be instructive.
(correction above – I meant “Yormarket” is a Nets insider (not Melo).
Denver that was much seemed clear.
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
Too bad Vecsey wasn't more curious to find out about all the trades that were and weren't made, so that we could find out the influence of Yormarket.
I had suggested at times in the past, that Thorn was waiting for Proky to be in control, before trading Yi.
I have a feeling that Thorn had a nice chuckle when he finally had a chance to trade Yormarket’s China marketing tool, Yi Jianlian. It was perfect for Thorn, because all the blame could be put on Proky’s desire to recruit LeBron James.
Any discussion of Yormarket should be accompanied by a discussion of how he tried to put Marketing ahead of basketball.
You can be sure that the Yi/Yormarket relation had something to do with Kiki, and why Thorn wanted Kiki out of here.
We had heard stories in the past of possible trades for Yi, yet they never materialized. My feeling is that Thorn never had much faith in Yi developing, but he was pressured to keep him on the team.
The bottom line that we should be talking about, are which trades or lack of trades were influenced by politics and whether the Nets are going too far in their pursuit of Melo.
I can't be sure of anything
nor can you.
Each one of your posts is based on nothing other than your conjecture.
I dont care much about this other than illuminates how bad this franchise was last year, but I’m not going to wildly speculate about things I don’t know.
I believe it
The truth is Yormark did focus heavily on using Yi as a marketing tool and he was a very flawed player basketball-wise. So obviously, if Vecsey actually quoted Thorn for expressing his dislike for Yormark, it wouldn’t surprise me if this was one of the core issues that they both had. Speculation? Perhaps, but there were definitely signs that this was a problem between the basketball guys and the business guys.
Thorn never gave the impression he liked Yi all that much
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
And there was evidence - not conjecture - when Thorn was seen in the stands, on Yi's first game back from injury, when Kiki played him 40 minutes.
The camera caught Rod, visibly upset, and there was also mention in the subsequent article of how Thorn was upset with how much PT Yi was given. Not to mention sarcastic comments by Harris about how old Yi was. DaveD made some jokes about Yi’s age (he should be turning 26 in a few weeks, IMO).
visibly upset about WHAT?
you can tell by a few seconds glance on video what Thorn was thinking???
this is your problem. there is NO WAY you know what he was upset with.
by Net Income on Oct 3, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, thats why he traded for him.
and said of Jefferson, you have to trade a good player to get a good player.
Yormark didn’t have a say in any trades.
I thought Kiki gets credit for the Yi trade, although Rod had to approve it.
Of course Rod approved of Yi initially. But as time went on, I bet Rod probably felt more like Nets fans, while Kiki insisted he could turn around Yi.
And Thorn, when at times given opportunities to trade Yi, had to consider the marketing side, as a factor, which I’m sure that Yormarket would be capable of addressing. So Yormarket had to have some influence, not to mention that we now hear (from Vecsey article) that Ratner ran every idea from Thorn through Yormarket.
How different things would be today if Thorn was able to trade Yi for Noah (when Naoh wasn’t doing well)!
Maybe even LeBron signs with Nets.
THIS,THIS,THIS to jerry 25
I never liked Yormarks sny look…He reminds me too much of the conspirator , Pat Riley…..I say fire Yormark…Hollah………and re hire Thron as our new CEO……
And all this Melo garbage is directly related to yormark getting a star to market brooklyn etc, that’s his job, and that’s why we are willing to give up the house, obviously having Melo makes the team alot more marketable than a 19 yr old kid and “former” allstar pg, its all finances… ridiculous
I am going to turn this team around 360 Degrees- Jason Kidd
Proky's not a micro-manager
Hopefully he takes his personnel decision recommendations primarily from his basketball people, not from Yormark. If he’s serious about a 5 year plan towards a championship, hopefully he’ll consider the Oklahoma City model a little bit more credible than the Isiah Thomas model.
And the marketing guys have no interest in promoting a star?
I think Yormark would definitely want to go after a star over rebuilding with no true big names.
I have no problem with Yorkmark doing this because it generates revenue for the team that will eventually lead to building a better product. But, I don’t think we should act like he has nothing to do with these decision.
The guy is CEO after all
and he has done a remarkable job marketing a bad team. I don’t think we’re really giving him too much credit. Its a no-brainer. If you want to build a brand, you build with a big name. I’m not saying Proky had no say in it. Of course he does. But I think Yormark would jump all over this despite the fact.
Sorry Rod
What does Yormack know about basketball? He knows business. He has too much power. I think we’d have Melo now, b/c no leaks would have surfaced and the deal would have been massaged by the man. Melo is not about Yormack, it is about the Russian.
in that case, why did Thorn leave?
If Yormark’s star is fading, Thorn would have had more influence. Don’t dismiss the idea of his continuing predisposition to undermine Thorn (possibly BK and Avery as well).
Yormark is out of his element when it comes to personnel decisions. Personally I don’t like him at all, but I’ll concede he has some marketing savvy and has probably been more helpful in getting the Brooklyn business up and running than others in his position might have been.
Piece really doesn't say why Thorn left
It leaves readers with this quote instead: “I’d decided to retire long before the sale. Personal things happened over the last two years that made me realize it was time to go.”
So the mystery of those “personal things” remains.
The leaks were probably Denver.
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
Yormarket vs Thorn, this is great stuff. Why did no rumor of this ever surface before though? And I actually can’t remember any big moves by Thorn that leaked before they happened. For example, I don’t think we heard anything about the RJ and VC trades. Anyway, Thorn disliking Yormarket and Yormarket thinking Thorn was lazy is great stuff.
by ispartan on Oct 3, 2010 10:27 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
yes, but...
there was NO word about either of those big trades until the day of the deal.
BUT there were lots of rumors about deals that were in the wind that never happened: Melo two years ago and Camby and Deng, etc., etc. You might also recall there was a lot of positive spin about the Nets meeting with LeBron, et al. There were also rumors that the Nets were going to hire Calipari back, that Pitino had called, that Krzyzewski was going to be offered $12 million.
If he was the source of the leaks, the most likely reason he was pushing it was…to screw Thorn? Maybe. I was told by someone on the inside, that “we are indeed lucky that there is a murder statute on the books in New Jersey, because if there wasn’t one of those guys would be dead.” BUT It also created a BUZZ that he used to sell tickets and sponsorships.
Yormark is going nowhere. He makes $2 million a year and his contract runs through 2013. Ratner paid out a lot of money to the front office types. More importantly, Yormark has done a good job in getting the naming rights deal for Barclays Center and other sponsorships. The team has sold 2,600 new season tickets.
I hold no quarter for Yormark, but let’s face certain facts here: there was a LOT of blame to go around…and Thorn deserves part of it.
The guys a sleeze but he knows how to sell nothing new here.
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
agreed
"Anthony Randolph has hall of fame skills" - GALLO!
by MrDollarBills on Oct 3, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. I like Yorkmark a lot more now.
Thorn was ruining the franchise.
by GrandKenyon6 on Oct 3, 2010 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yorkmark is a used car salesman
Handing the keys to the kingdom over to Calipari might have been good for salesmanship but terrible for our long-term image (imagine what the Star Ledger’s reaction would have been! geesh) and just wouldn’t make basketball sense. Cal is just like Yorkmark, two peas in a pod — both slimy — so I’m not surprised. It has me relieved, then, that Yorkmark doesn’t have necessary clout he needed, because this news just tells me the guy hasn’t the foggiest when it comes to making actual basketball decisions. He also sounds power hungry, and him being outed as the mole, the leaky mole, is no surprise either. He’s sleazy.
As for Thorn, he was getting long in the tooth, obviously out of touch with today’s NBA. On balance, I’d hope we can just flush the toilet completely and start anew, hopeful that the Russians don’t fall for Yormark’s power hungry sleaze. I think he’ll be useful once we start winning (I imagine him being a good attack dog against the Knicks’ brass — just look at The Blueprint for Success banner), but until then, I hope the Russians keep this attack dog in his cage and tell him to bide his time.
Sayonara to Rod, and as for Yorkmark, sit down and play your position, you dog.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
I think this news also demonstrates how a nearly historically bad team destroys chemistry
internal, external, everywhere combustible.
Nets = Global
Knicks = Local
I just dont understand
how our business CEO had any authority over our basketball operations guy in Thorn. I know King wont let that happen to him, he would punch Yormark, or AJ would. But this just makes me appreciate Mikhail even more, because he isnt trying to sell tickets (well he is but indirectly) he wants to win! w00t!
King said in his opening day, that he would do things differently from in the past (Philly) and discuss with Avery and get approval from Proky's #2 on big decision.
Lets hope King is in contact with Dmitry (who seems to follow the Nets and NetsDaily) and doesn’t have to go through Yormarket on the Melo situation.
What bothers me also
is that Yormark felt thorn was getting lazy and not doing his job to the fullest…like some of us suspected during the coaching search.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
Yes, that was suspicious. Not sure if it was lazy or that Thorn wanted someone loyal, like JVG, and thus he had to wait.
And also don’t forget that Proky wasn’t formally approved at that time, so it could be that Rod was trying to “wait things out”, so that Yormarket – who apparently had other preferences – was out of the picture.
Yormarket could have taken that to be lazy, when there were other motivations for Thorn’s delay.
It didn’t appear that Thorn was lazy during his last few weeks, when it was mentioned that he was working around the clock.
Rod could have really hurt the Nets, knowing that he might soon become President of the Sixers. On top of that Proky let Rod work 2 extra weeks without any renewed contract. That must have been a real shock when Proky found out he was President of the Sixers.
I HATE yormark
He always came off as a sleeze to me. Fits the stereotypical CEO role quite well. Only cares about money, will say anything he can to butter up his customers. Screw him. Thorn was the anchor for the nets. I’m so sorry he had to leave us.
as far as the "LAZY" comments go
whose to say ratner didn’t wanna spend money on a coach, and wanted kiki to coach the miserable team he put together? What choice does Rod have if Yormark says, “the only guy were paying is Vandeweghe”?
That was in reference to the coaching search over the summer
to replace Kiki..Prokhorov was in place by then.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
Boys & Girls
I don’t know about all of you, but today is the START of the 2010-2011 season and I’M PUMPED, WOOO!!!
LETS GO NETS!
my reg season tix are in 129
But I don’t have tix for tonight so I’d get off stubhub
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
by NetsKiNG on Oct 3, 2010 1:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You DO wanna go tonight.
It’s either that or sit at home checking NetsDaily and tearing your hair out as the Giants disappoint again… Sigh… What happened to you, Big Blue?
by JohnFromLongIsland on Oct 3, 2010 11:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you make a valid point
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
by NetsKiNG on Oct 3, 2010 12:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Is it time for basketball yet?
by JohnFromLongIsland on Oct 3, 2010 11:51 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
seven hours
to the game, where at least three Nets will go down to injuries and Haifa will win the game.
You Guys Convinced Me...
picked up tickets on stubhub. Mad cheap. $2 bucks a seat for lower levels. Of course the service charge is ridiculous though.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle
No television coverage
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Oct 3, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Thorn was not getting lazy. He brought us great deals through his time as President. The Kidd trade changed the face of our franchise and were the best years ever as Nets fans. The Carter trade was a steal and getting back Devin when Kidd wanted to leave was a coup. Rod was, however, very limited to what he can do with Ratner as our owner.
LETS GO NETS!
Wow
Hard to believe the same guy who came up with reversible jerseys idea would pull something like this!
by DrazenGhost on Oct 3, 2010 12:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Met Yormark once...
he’s the kind of guy that makes you want to immediately wash your hand after he shakes it… real slime-ball… Wonder if losing Thorn lost any of those free agents?
Thorn Re-Evaluation 7.0?
Actually I don’t know what number we’re on now … but its obvious that his drafting record hasn’t been great. The recent acquisitions of Brook and TWill highlight previous underwhelming picks (Antoine Wright, Marcus/Sean Williams, Zoran, etc.) We’ve also made a number of mediocre free agent signings over the years. Only Kidd and Carter really stand out.
I have heard that Yormark starts his day at the dawn and works til evening. Given what he has had to work with, I’d actually say that Yormark has done a better job than Thorn. I like Thorn as a classy, well-respected guy but it seems very possible that Thorn grew complacent.
Are you saying that Zoran Planinic wasn't a good draft choice?
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle
Vecsey speculated too much.
If Yormark were the biggest leak, if he wanted to get rid of Thorn, why were there so few bad things about Thorn leaked out last season? They would have been so convincing because Nets was so bad.
Well Vescey doesn't have a problem making stuff up now and again
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
I see.
But a lot of posters, including NI, believe him.
I don't think that NI has fully weighed in on this issue.
The fact that Thorn seems to have undermined Kiki, could have something to do with my Yormark tried to undermine Thorn.
Could it be that Yi Jianlian was a factor in making matters worse, by his poor play? I think so, but NI calls that speculation.
Yet its Okay for Vecsey to speculate for everyone to read.
But the way Vecsey writes, its hard to seperate speculation from evidence.
That is probably his intention, to make himself more important and to turn a little homework and a selective quote into a Big story.
And Vecsey doesn’t follow the daily workings of the club, as the Beat writers do, but that doesn’t stop him from trying to make you believe he knows more than they do.
No wonder Vecsey is no longer on NBATV.
Thorn's comment..
that he doesn’t “deny his dislike for the guy” has to be somewhat of a hit for Yormark. Thorn’s one of the most well respected people in most NBA circles, so that comment can’t bode well for Yormark.
Also, Yormark trying to hire Calipari is a big no no. That shows that he would like to be involved with the basketball decisions. Hopefully Proky sees this a gets rid of this guy. There are more than a few NYC marketing people with real relationships get the Brooklyn thing going.
Bringing back Calipari sounds like a disastrous idea
by jsg on Oct 3, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. Dude is a sleeze
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
So my post about getting warned was deleted.
Thats interesting I just noted that I got warned for calling Yormarket a certain type of bag. And I’ve seen NI say worse, like when I called a Gallo a troll and got warned for that 0-0
Don't pay Billy King a severance package.
mine did too.
For using the abbreviation of the F word. I love this site, but sometimes it can be a little overly strict. I thought i was following the rules by using abbreviations.
Actually, IIRC, the rules state no curse word masked with ***, and the like.
I don’t know if I like the Big Brother rules or not.
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Oct 3, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The way I see it
Yormark’s a snake, clueless about b-ball but great at what he does. He found Proky indirectly.
Ratner made Thorn into a salesman when sale mode went into full swing.
Thorn had no interest in sale mode so he appears to be “lazy” but with sale mode, to show his great talent, we end up being the best trading partner in the NBA.
Lopez (steal of the draft), TWill (great pick), Harris (good player at a great value), Favors (best PF in the draft) and James (another steal) imo are the 5 most important players on the team and they’re all here because of Thorn.
Proky "I let my people make decisions" wants a star. So if Avery and/or King don’t like the Melo trade do they have the nerve to say it, say it to Proky to no avail or just yes him?
If Thorn had made up his mind to leave before the sale and decided not to retire then imo something about this team is still wrong in his perception and to me that carries more weight than anyone else’s speculation.
Lastly it’s a; what’s in it for me situation.
It appears that marketing, making this team popular and making money are more important than building a title contender. Melo and Yi both are front court players that can’t defend on a championship level yet are supported by ownership as well as Net Income. It’s good financially for both of them but fans who would prefer a title contender have to worry about the wrong people like Proky and Yormark making b-ball decisions.
My gut feeling has been...
When someone leaves a job and takes exactly the same job somewhere else, (and not for more money,) the likely cause is that someone else is interfering with how the job got done. Such as Avery getting some GM powers. Or (with this new info) Yormark influencing personnel decisions.
So Thorn finished up very honorably and got out of there cleanly. Smart guy.
not "that" Jersey Shore...Point Pleasant, 10 refreshing miles north of Seaside.
by John at the Jersey Shore on Oct 3, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Ratner/Yormark and Proky’s agenda interfered with Thorn’s way of getting the job done. The smart guy doesn’t work for us anymore and what are we left with? This is why we are going after Melo. Even if the trade doesn’t happen we still have the same agenda. We’re a mistake waiting to happen imo. Sad.
Thorn took the high road too.
He made the best moves he could to help the organization and left without taking any shots are placing blame on anyone. The remark about Yormark was the only salvo and I don’t think we’ll hear any more about it (on Thorn’s end). Thorn probably couldn’t help himself because he detests Yormark so much
Yormark is a sleaze and should he meet an untimely demise
the investigators will have a long list of people go sort thru
BK King - "Have it your way, Mr. Kroenke"
There's a lot to digest here...
I read through the article and all of the posts. There’s a lot of food for thought here. It seems Yormark has done more to hurt this team that good.
Section 2 @ the Rock
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