Nets Inviting Islanders to Brooklyn?

It seems like such an obvious solution, especially in these tough economic times. Nets had no trouble co-existing with Devils for all those years, and before that the Islanders, when the Nets were playing at Nassau Coliseum. Why not now?

I have urged this to be considered several times over the last few months. With the Islanders added, this new arena has a chance to make money. However, I doubt that Mr Wang’s ego would allow this to happen. The Long Island Railroad is THE rail connection under the Brooklyn arena. If I lived on Long Island, and was a hockey fan, I’d rather take the train then sit on the LIE to get to a game. I used to drive the LIE everyday to work back in the 1980’s, it was awful. If I were the Rat, I’d get WANG to throw in with me, and be a part owner of the arena. WANG has deep pockets, and Nassau County has been screwing with Wang and his arena plans for years.

Either the arena will accomodate hockey or it won’t. Which is it?

I don’t like this idea at all. I want an arena like what the Devils have. A place that is made for the Devils. Everything from the lobby to the ice is Devils. I don’t want to have to walk into an arena and see some Nets stuff and some Islanders stuff. In that case just move to Newark and share with the Devils. Wont happen….

I am very reliably told there is no hockey pad in the redesign, that it was eliminated for size and because they wanted a very intimate setting for basketball, with fans seated closer to the action than in any other basketball venue.

As a big Islanders fan, I can assure all that Chris Botta’s Point Blank site is TOP NOTCH and unlike this site actually promotes the team staying where it currently is with its fan base in place. So if Botta has a source, there is a strong likelihood the team is considering Brooklyn and the proposed arena would likely have the accomodations for it. That being said, I am still hoping with all i’ve got that the Nets remain in New Jersey and the Isles stay at the Coliseum or at a refurbished version of it.

MSG is another example. Net Income points out there’s more money for basketball with the more intimate design. But an NFL HOCKEY SEASON in your arena would raise some money too. If the talks got interesting, it’s not too late to change the design. Erstein is so right about LIRR vs LIE. LIRR = easy; LIE = miserable. All the Islanders fans could get to AY easier than if they played in Nassau County.

Actually, getting to the AY via the LIRR is accessible only by the Atlantic Branch. Many would have to switch at the Jamaica Station over in Queens to access it. As a matter of fact, it’s the only one that doesn’t even stop at Penn Station just like how the Pt Washington Branch doesn’t stop at Jamaica, which leaves the rest at Woodside. Anyway, I haven’t heard anything about the Islanders leaving Uniondale, and they probably aren’t going anywhere. Even though the Nets did used to play in the same place as the Islanders as an ABA franchise, that’s not the case anymore, and it wasn’t for a long time. They were more known with the Devils than with the Islanders, especially because they were with them longer. Like the Nets, the Islanders probably have bareley any fans in the city where most would be for the Rangers. Again, most fans are loyal wouldn’t convert. If the Nets must join with an NHL team, then I suggest rejoining the Devils at the Prudential over in Newark instead.

The story says that “the arena has been designed in some plans to accommodate a NHL Franchise”.

If the billionaire Russian is going to pay for the arena, it would seem that it would be his decision which design to go with. I thought it had more to do with cost savings (than intimacy) and Prokhorov can afford to pay for the difference in price anyway.

I wonder, however, if at the last moment they decide to go with the “ice” design, if Daniel Bernsein would have grounds for another lawsuit for changing the arena?

I can’t for the life of me see how anyone can support using OUR tax dollars to build the world’s MOST EXPENSIVE arena when it can’t support NHL hockey, ice shows, the circus, or fringe sports like arena-football.

Having a hockey pad and even a tenant like the NY Islanders however changes the equation.

Like the Nets, the Islanders are interested in building a mini-city around a brand new arena. Like the Nets, the Islanders haven’t been able to move beyond planning stages. Like the Nets, the Islanders are threatening a move to KC. Getting Ratner and Wang together could be a very interesting twist to all of this.

I’m not familiar with the development associated with the Islanders, but it’s not the Nets who are building a development. It’s Bruce Ratner using the Nets as a kind of fig leaf to distract from the huge chunk of real estate he’s getting on the cheap with the help of the state.

And, although the practice has become widespread nationally, the city and state should not be subsidizing arenas (as they are money-losers), no matter what the sport.

All,

The current design of the Barclays Center does not have provisions for a hockey pad. That would substantially raise the cost of the arena. And even if Ratner changed his mind and decided to pair up with Wang to build a newer, larger arena with an ice rink, it still doesn’t change the fact that Ratner has an end-of-year deadline to meet so that he is still eligible for tax-exempt bonds. He HAS to start before the end of the year. Throwing in a new wrinkle like a new re-re-design of this arena is only going to succeed in delaying this project even further than it’s already been pushed back. If Ratner did go through with this idea, I guarantee the cost will rise OVER $1 BILLION, and the timetable for completion would be 2015 at the earliest! IMO, if you support the Barclays Center, the last thing you want at this point in time is to throw this hockey pad monkey-wrench into the works.

Read the comments from Islanders fans in the article. They would much rather a move to Brooklyn than another part of the country. It is nice to read comments from rational fans that have a perspective on things. This is in direct contrast to NJ fans who would rather a move to Seattle due to insecurities and vindictive tendencies.

OMGGGG Why would the Islands want to be tennants in someone elses arena!!! It MAKES n000 sense LOLz

And why are Islanders fans happy to stay local rather than move across the country?

NJ fans should learn a lesson.

David,

Regardless of your views on NJ fans, the facts still bear out that time is clearly NOT on Ratner’s side, and any re-design will simply delay this project into oblivion. IMO, this news we’re hearing about Prokhorov and the Islanders smacks of desperation. This is info that should have come out long ago, not at the 11th hour. Between approvals from the City and State for a re-design, more lawsuits from opponents (which are guaranteed, since they seem to be well-funded) and the NBA vetting process for any new potential owner, I don’t see any realistic way this project could be started by the end of the year.

at David:

“and why are Islanders fans happy to stay local rather than move across the country?”

David – as a big fan of both the Nets and Isles (that wants each team to stay where it is) – I can tell you the difference. Because Wang actually has taken steps to indicate and has hinted public that the team will be headed elsewhere (possibly KC since they are playing a preseason game there) if his project does not get approved. Nobody within Nets management (as bad as they have been) has said the team is headed to Seattle or KC if Brooklyn fails (only speculators on this site). Unlike the Isles, the Nets currently have a perfectly viable option at a nearby state of the art arena and its owners have expressed interest in finding a way to get the Nets to move there.

So bottom line, once again totally different situation and the pro-Brooklyn fans on here have onc again but their false spin on the situation. Hope this clears things up for you.

MrT – We are all just bystanders and will see how things turn out.

Isaac – We do know that David Stern is not keen on a NJ basketball team (there have been quotes). We know that if Brooklyn fails, Ratner has no ties to NJ and will likely seek the highest sale price.

So at a minimum, if Brooklyn fails there is a decent chance the Nets will leave the area. So you would rather take that risk than have the Nets move to Brooklyn with a very wealthy owner?

In soviet Russia, Nets boo you!

You would think after reading some of these “news” articles on Proky, that he would be very comfortable in N.J. I wonder if he has the special box set edition of the Sopranos on DVD.

“David Says:

September 21st, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Isaac – We do know that David Stern is not keen on a NJ basketball team (there have been quotes). We know that if Brooklyn fails, Ratner has no ties to NJ and will likely seek the highest sale price.

So at a minimum, if Brooklyn fails there is a decent chance the Nets will leave the area. So you would rather take that risk than have the Nets move to Brooklyn with a very wealthy owner?"

With respect, your above statement isn’t entirely accurate. When YankeeNets owned the team and wanted to build an arena in Newark, Stern was all for the project. IF Stern grew disillusioned with NJ, it was because the State was unwilling to subsidize part of the cost at that time. Subsequently, YankeeNets was dismantled and their stake in the team was ultimately sold to Ratner, who then proposed Atlantic Yards. In the meantime, Vanderbeek purchased the Devils and the City of Newark was able to secure money for the Prudential Center without having to obtain State tax dollars to fund construction. Now that the Prudential Center is built (and Barclays still isn’t), I’m sure Stern is acting behind the scenes to ensure that the Nets move there if (and when) Brooklyn falls through.

At David and MrT:

As to where David Stern stands, it really is hard to tell although sadly I believe David may be right here and it’s a real shame. After all Stern is a guy that grew up in Teaneck and graduated from the STATE UNIVERSITY of NEW JERSEY. How proud they must be of him based on how he has treated his “hometown” patrons. The situation with the Nets is so out of hand and he has stood by and watched nothing happen for the last five years while the paying customers for one of his franchises has hung in the balance.

How he could not see the potential for Newark is beyond me. The urban community there would clearly rally around having its own professional basketball team right in their backyard and the Nets would not be alienating their current fan base in the rest of the state (A bigger group then is given credit for). While MSG will be renovated, it still may not have some of the modern amenities that the Prudential Center has in place, so that fact may still draw in people from the city for a 20-minute PATH ride should the team finally start to build into a winner once again. The possiblity of success is endless at the Prudential Center and Stern would be wise to finally end this Brooklyn madness and steer the Nets to the Rock before it’s too late.

Isaac – Ratner owns the team. He will decide who to sell to when the time comes. Stern cannot “steer” the team to NJ if an out of town buyer is willing to pay more money.

“David Says:

September 21st, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Isaac – Ratner owns the team. He will decide who to sell to when the time comes. Stern cannot "steer" the team to NJ if an out of town buyer is willing to pay more money."

You are correct in that Stern can’t publicly influence what owners do with their teams, which is precisely why I used the phrase “behind the scenes”. Stern can’t show preference to Newark in public because it will send the message that he has lost confidence in the Brooklyn move. That won’t look good for himself or his league. And being that the NBA has to approve anyone who becomes an owner. I’m sure Stern has some say in what happens. Owners can’t run and do anything they want without league approval. Even though the teams are individually owned, the NBA as a whole is a brand, and no single ownership group can up and decide to sell on a whim to anyone without some sort of tacit approval from the entire league.

@ Isaac,

It is difficult to tell Stern’s position, and that is not by accident. If you notice, there is very little heard of Stern publicly supporting Brooklyn. That’s not just by chance. He is aware of the situation in Brooklyn, and he’s no idiot. When the project collapses, he can always say that Brooklyn had its chance and couldn’t close the deal (without drawing attention to the fact that the NBA approved Ratner as an owner who wasn’t capable of making his franchise [team] succeed by not being able to get the arena built).

Also, NJ is the most densely populated State in the nation and has the second highest per capita income in America. And, as you noted, the Prudential Center is 20 minutes from lower and midtown Manhattan by train, and one hour from Philadelphia. Stern would be off his rocker to allow the Nets to move out of the region. Simply put, there is no other viable option outside the region, and the only viable option within the region is Newark.

If Brooklyn dies, Ratner sells the team to the highest bidder. I would really hope a Newark group has the highest bid because I much prefer NJ to another city. But that’s because I care more about the team than NY vs. NJ vs. Long Island.

Ratner may own the team but Stern owns the NBA, lock, stock and barrel. When Stern says jump…

Some of you guys are vastly underestimating Stern’s power. he is not some “figurehead”. If you have been following the league closely since he has been in power, including team relocations, expansion etc. it comes down to what Stern says, goes.

Despite the different circumstances, it’s amazing that not a single post on the Islanders board wants them to move half way across the country. Not even one!!!

(Changing the subject,,, what happened to the math question that used to come before making a post here?)

The same goes with Nets fans here even on just moving them to Brooklyn.

Regarding Stern, like some of you have been saying, he plays it close to the vest. He won’t come close to exposing his hand. Right now, he makes pro-Brooklyn comments because his job is to watch the backs of his owners. Until/if Brooklyn croaks, he’ll say what needs to be said in order to keep the Nets sale price high.

If Brooklyn actually does bite the dust, you’ll see him change his tune. He’ll want the team to stay in Newark but he’ll pit the investors against each other and create a bidding war, similar to what we saw in 2004 when he pitted Wang, Ratner and New Jersey interests against each other and got a $300 million sale done. $300 million was a lot more than the value of the franchise at the time and if he can get enough people bidding against each other, someone will get desperate and offer more than $350 million. Let’s just hope it’s someone with Newark ties.

I honestly don’t think the Lighthouse or Atlantic Yards Project will get done and with the Russian Billionaire’s sketchy past, I don’t think the NBA Board of Governors would approve him.

In the end, I see the Islanders moving to Kansas City (Bettman even stated publicly the the only team he can see moving right now is the Islanders [and now the Coyotes].) and the Nets moving to Newark (I’m sure the Devils owner would love to purchase the team.)

We’ll see, October is the big month for both projects.

If AY doesn’t get done, the Russian billionaire becomes irrelevant. He’s solely in this for the Brooklyn connection.

Now, if Brooklyn comes to fruition, the BOG may still deny him. That could very well happen. It all depends on where Stern stands. If he truly is pro Brooklyn, he’ll convince the BOG to approve Prokhorov.

The Prokhorov deal was announced today (9/23 PM) and is being carried by AP and ESPN.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4497411

Stern is behind the deal. Mark Cuban can’t wait to practice his Russian.

The deal won’t be finalized until Q1 of 2010, which is confusing since I thought the money for Barclays has to be committed before end of this year?