wow, this is epic.
I can’t stop laughing!
Ha! Ha! Ha!

Ratner, you’re a joke.

Sounds about like this board in terms of decorum on this subject.

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/assets/photos/32/29/32_29_yardswednight05_z.jpg

“Fuggedaboudit?! You Fuggedaboudit!”

“Don’t tell me to fuggedaboudit! I’ll fuggedabout YOU!”

Robble. Robble. Robble.

Blue Collar Maturity v. Traditional Pessimism…my favorite!

@ jabez, I was going to post the same thing.

hysterical

This comes down to race…….plain and simple

ppl that oppose this project…. pretend like they care about brooklyn…….

being a young black male from brooklyn….. it disgusts me that everyone talks ill about Ratner wen lets get this straight he’s the only developer that came to brooklyn to work wit us… is he making a profit..HELL YEA… but is he pushing everyone like you all say…NOPE

so all you “PRETENDERS” who pretend like they are from brooklyn but in actuality live in some huge house in Jersey… calm down… relax….and stop being jealous that the Nets CANT WAIT to get out of Jersey

blazin pp face,

I happen to be a black man (not from Brooklyn) and I oppose this project as much as any other person on this site. Frankly, I think you (and others) been sucked-in by Ratner’s bait-and-switch ploy of selling affordable housing and b-ball to the minority-dominated community in Brooklyn. Ratner did that precisely to get backing from the minority community, because he knew most would buy into it. He also knew there would be a racial backlash if opponents (mainly white) came out against this project. He is USING the black community to push through a development that will only benefit himself and investors, and you bought it, hook, line and sinker!

If anything, stop your support of a developer who demands YOUR tax money so he can make millions and keep almost all of the profits for himself. If he wanted to build an arena, he would do it correctly by including provisions for hockey, and build in another minority dominated enclave, such as DOWNTOWN NEWARK, which, BTW, already has an arena in place. Please don’t make this into a racial argument, b/c that’s exactly what Ratner wants to happen.

@blazin

Thanks for providing some perspective from someone actually in Brooklyn.

Anthony:

Here is some more perspective from someone “actually from Brooklyn”. I’m a diehard Nets fan that WILL NOT support the Nets anymore if they leave New Jersey. New York has its team, its called the Knicks.

Very few people (save for the 20 or so on this board) in Brooklyn want the Nets – it can’t be any more plain and simple.

@Blazin pp

I wouldn’t necessarily say it boils down to race although it does play a role among some of the critics. Although there won’t be an ice surface, there will still be lots of other events but you constantly hear critics avoid that and jump to their standard “we’re not giving up our property for a frickin’ basketball arena!!”. This is usually code for “I hate basketball” which is code for “i hate anything that puts blacks on the map”.

That being said, the majority of the opponents and critics aren’t looking at it from a race standpoint but rather legitimately don’t believe in eminent domain. At the end of the day, this is more about green than black or white.

I love when people just throw race in to fuel the fire. Maybe just maybe those of us who oppose it oppose using taxpayers dollars to build a monstrosity in the middle of brooklyn. Also could it be that perhaps big developers getting unfair deals ticks us off?

Oh that’s right it’s because I hate black people… get a clue

I wouldn’t say it’s an issue of race, but I think blazin’s point that a lot of the critics here are people from New Jersey who pretend to know more about Brooklyn than people who in live in Brooklyn…I’m going to say that’s 100% true.

And maybe that monstrosity could be a huge benefit to society and maybe the opposition doesn’t care about anything but themselves.

Hey, Dirt:

more like blue collar maturity vs. yuppie preppie holier than thou pomposity! Race??? It’s about class. Workers want jobs; the tree huggers want some utopia that does not exist. While developers will make a sum (and take a risk) workers, blue collar people of many races, will do better with development as it is built and after it is built.

From “Atlantic Antics” article:
“The state, meanwhile, dismissed a report by the city’s Independent Budget Office that said the basketball arena would in fact be a net loss for taxpayers, rather than the promised generator of revenues.”

btw, Blazinpp is dead wrong about his statement. most of the opponents of this project LIVE IN BROOKLYN. most of the construction workers who are looking to get jobs on this project ARE NOT.

i give u two comments from residents from Brooklyn left on comment sections on these articles.

“I assume you understand that the plan as currently designed is to produce housing (luxury condos) and a place of entertainment (a basketball arena) for the “well off middle and upper class.” The jobs the community will be left with after the construction is done will be minimum wage jobs selling wine and sushi to 28 year old bankers from Goldman and Morgan Stanley. You get that, right? There’s very little the community will get once this thing is up."

“Since space will likely be at a premium at the next hearing, perhaps first preference should be given to Kings County residents?

I suspect this won’t be done because the planners know themselves that nearly all, if not 100%, of the opponents live in Brooklyn, whereas many of the proponents, especially the vocal members of the carpenters union, actually live in places such as Haverstraw, Hicksville, and Ronkonkoma. Their claims to Brooklyn are little more than their father’s old stickball games in Canarsie in the 50’s prior to their grandparents flight to the suburbs.

At the next hearing, the opponents should be unafraid to turn the tables right back on the proponents yelling “go home” and tell them they’re the ones who should remove themselves from a discussion about the community that their families abandoned decades ago.

I’ve lived here over a decade and owned property here nearly as long. My children go to school here. We’re committed to this community. Can someone from the construction union please tell me how many more years before I’m allowed a say in the stewardship of my community? Or am I just expected to pay my property taxes, fund their jobs, and keep my mouth shut?’"

Of the nine plaintiffs in the Goldstein lawsuit, a majority are corporations and partnerships. Originally, there were 13 plaintiffs. Two sold out to Ratner and the others simply dropped out.

Again, the number of people who still live in the footprint is either 15 (according to one of the plaintiffs), 35 (according to Goldstein) or no more than 62 (a recent ESDC report). Take your choice.

There has never been a hearing where the critics were in a majority…and for those who suggest the union guys have less credibility than the nearby residents, I would note that these are hearings by the city or state so they have as much credibility as anyone.

I would also note that early in the process, Goldstein talked about the relationship between the mainly African American supporters of the project and “their white slave masters”.

I own a small rental apartment bldg near the project, in fort greene. The area is a mess. development would help the area. I expect no deterioration in quality of life that would make it harder to rent apartments.

For just about every proposed development, some local opponents object to the increased density. However, this project, on a transit hub larger than any transit hub in most countries, is quite correctly located. This arena will get a much higher percentage of people arriving by foot, train, bike, and bus versus car than anthing in the NBA except maybe MSG. I gotta think Brooklyn will fall in love with its NBA team, something NJ hasn’t really done over the years. Are the Nets the pride of the garden state? No.

If this project is defeated, that ugly hole in the ground will remain for a generation.

to clarify my post “The area is a mess” refers to the atlantic yards immediate area, not fort greene, a lovely neighborhood starting 1 or 2 blocks to the north.

Net Income. ever been to one of the hearings? i doubt it. otherwise you couldn’t make such an absurd statement.

so annoying to add race in guy…love how you say in your huge house in Jersey…actually laughed out loud……you ever think that the people in big houses may have worked harder in life? May have sacrificed a lot and continued education? No lets just feel sorry for ourselves because were stuck in Brooklyn. Bottom line is that hard working people from Jersey are proud of their state and their team and want them to stay here. This wouldnt be going on if the Nets had a true owner notRatner who is just in it for money. He is like a house flipper minus making this team better. Why do you think the Devils are called JERSEY’s TEAM? Vanderbeek is from Bricktown (or another Jersey Shore town close) A true New Jerseyan and look how that team is doing. GREAT.

Lets get our team to NEWARK!!!!

So stop with your garbage

@NI
“There has never been a hearing where the critics were in a majority…and for those who suggest the union guys have less credibility than the nearby residents, I would note that these are hearings by the city or state so they have as much credibility as anyone.”

I’ve been to most of the hearings (I don’t believe I’ve seen you there), and the union guys are paid to be at these events. I’ve personally seen the vouchers being handed out. Members of supporting groups are also provided food and free transportation.

I live here, and it’s disturbing to see these events distorted so that people who only have dollar signs in their eyes show up as if to dictate to the area residents what we have to accept.

This project has gone through a process that was deliberately set up to shut out any meaningful input by Brooklyn, indeed, all New York City residents.

Of course, even if only one person sees the scam that is Atlantic Yards, that person should be allowed to point it out. It’s called idealism, something you wouldn’t understand.

at Steve:

“This project has gone through a process that was deliberately set up to shut out any meaningful input by Brooklyn, indeed, all New York City residents.”

EXACTLY. Amen.

“Morpheus Says:

July 23rd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
blazin pp face,

I happen to be a black man (not from Brooklyn) and I oppose this project as much as any other person on this site. Frankly, I think you (and others) been sucked-in by Ratner’s bait-and-switch ploy of selling affordable housing and b-ball to the minority-dominated community in Brooklyn. Ratner did that precisely to get backing from the minority community, because he knew most would buy into it. He also knew there would be a racial backlash if opponents (mainly white) came out against this project. He is USING the black community to push through a development that will only benefit himself and investors, and you bought it, hook, line and sinker!

If anything, stop your support of a developer who demands YOUR tax money so he can make millions and keep almost all of the profits for himself. If he wanted to build an arena, he would do it correctly by including provisions for hockey, and build in another minority dominated enclave, such as DOWNTOWN NEWARK, which, BTW, already has an arena in place. Please don’t make this into a racial argument, b/c that’s exactly what Ratner wants to happen."

Hear, hear!!!

well put……..Lets make the Devils and Nets, Jerseys TEAMS

see you at the Rock

for all you who oppose big project developers….. i dont see you boycotting any other developers…..hmm maybe malls… no lets just all boycott everything…. if you are against public vs private domain… then u shuldnt visit a lot of places…

its like a vegetarian who eats a medium rare steak…. u guys use your dislike for Forest City as your basis for caring for Brooklyn… cuz you dont

if you dont think in this country it doesnt have something to do wit race… fine… watever helps you sleep at night

either way…. the nets are leaving Jersey…. =)

@ Morpheous

u know waht…. youre rite.. i’ve been sucked in….

actually Forest City has paid me millions of dollars to come to this site to lament my position for them…..

how did you ever figure that out?? dang my secret is out… watever shall I do ??

Please, rise for YOUR NEW JERSEY NETS!!!!!!

@ blazin,

I can’t speak for Morpheus, but I don’t think he was trying to say you’re bought and paid for by Ratner. I think he was trying to say Ratner was trying to fool alot of folks with pie-in-the-sky promises, yet couldn’t or didn’t actually deliver (in other words, a classic bait-and-switch). He promised blacks in Brooklyn affordable housing and basketball, yet can’t seem to deliver on it. He knew if any white residents came out against it, the blame could be placed on them for being obstructionists. In order to do this, he had to get blacks behind him. Now he can place blame on white residents when this thing doesn’t get built. In short, Ratner bought you and others by appealing to your emotions, and not to your wallets.

The race card is a bunch of BULL>>>>! We can easily move to a first class arena WITH our state’s NHL team in the beautiful hills of WHITE NEWARK. Oh, I am sorry, that is not a predominantly white area, must be a prejudiced reason why we have not moved into that New Jersey arena yet either. Bottom line I am proud I am from New Jersey and want to see my team play in New Jersey where they belong. I do not want to travel into Brooklyn and I could care less what type of place Brooklyn is. Like I have said numerous times before: IF YOU WIN THEY WILL COME! Until the Jason Kidd era, our franchise was awful for three decades! THAT is why our fan base is only beginning to grow. We were in the right direction until the RAT bought this team and it has been downhill again. Perfect example, the Lakers have the largest basketball fan base in the league and the Clippers have one of the worst. Ironically, they both play in Los Angeles. Well, which team has had all the success? The Lakers grabbed hold of fans in that area through four decades of success. The tide was turning in the New Jersey area with the recent success of the Nets in the past ten years. The new owner has isolated much of our fan base due to his ulterior motives. New Jersey residents will support the Nets, especially, if we move to Newark with easier access for commuters. You can see the increased support for the Devils at games already after one year.

brand new arena + accessible public transportation + pre-game and post-game dining and drinking options nearby + inner city community to support a professional basketball team = a runaway success.

Where is all this currently available to the Nets you ask? THE PRUDENTIAL CENTER in NEWARK. Stop the Madness Stern!!! This guy has had 5+ years to steal his billions, it’s time to move the team where it belongs, in New Jersey.

“u guys use your dislike for Forest City as your basis for caring for Brooklyn… cuz you dont”

I’ll admit……………… I care as much about the ultimate fate of Brooklyn as you do about Newark. That means, not very much.
A) I want the Nets to remain in the Garden State.
B) I believe the Nets moving to Newark will be a component in revitalizing NJ’s largest city.

So basically, this comes down to self interest. You can try & claim some self righteous position, but you are fighting your own words in the end.
I’ve rarely tried to get on my high horse when discussing this issue.
However, many pro Brooklyn types have reverted to claiming racism, jealousy & all sorts of other “low blow” tactics.
I, me, myself feel as if many of you NY types have a “deserve” complex when it comes to the Nets.
Well, so do I.
Let me mount my high horse for a second.
The City of Newark would benefit more from the Nets than the borough of Brooklyn. There, I said it.
Even a marginal amount of suburban money channeled to Newark would be a boost for this ailing & historic city.
One more restaurant opened around the Rock might lead to two or three. This might lead to real estate investment & a shift in NKW’s current state.
You can claim racism, but it’s REALLY provincialism.

@ openheads,

AMEN!!!

Very well put. This is entirely about provincialism, with the unfortunate “guise” of racism being thrown in by some. I’m a black man from the Newark area, and I want my team to help revitalize what I think can be a great American city. Not only would I love my Nets even more, I would spend more leisure time in a place I want to see make a comeback. If Brooklyn wants a team, tell them to pursue the Knicks. They need a new arena as well, and Brooklyn would be an ideal fit for them.

A few years of success, and NY thinks they can take away what was never theirs to begin with. Keep your hands off our Nets!!!

Once again, the supporters were being disruptive just like at the last one. The only difference was that they didn’t have the whistles with them. They were told numerous times that if they don’t like the questions being asked, they can always leave the room, but they didn’t. Do not be surprised if their acts were orchestrated because they probably were. They just don’t know when to put their egos aside at these events and their actions almost remind me of Hamas in how they act for a Palestinian state. The supporters were already given a bad name by NY Magazine and even the Daily News, so I suggest that they get their act together. I hope that the rules against disruption for Wednesday and Thursday over at the Klitgord Auditorium are heavily enforced especially for them.