When It All Went South

Yes this was a year of bad moves by the Nets
in hindsight only
Thorn should have went harder for a post player when VC came to the team
that was the biggest mistake
Missing out with Rasheed Wallace is the most important move in this decade
Detroit could not beat NJ with Sheed
Thorn should have given ATL draft picks for Sheed

Good stuff. Thorn’s inability to get a big and to get shooters is glaring. I have watched this team since DC and Kenny Anderson and I have never seen such a poor shooting team these last 4 years and such an inside inept team. If we did not have Lopez, we would be miserable.

Over the past 4 years, teams have just let the Nets take shots as they clog the middle. You think Thorn would figure that out and pick up some shooters or resign Krstic. You think he woul dhave gone hard after Sheed, Brand, Boozer, etc. They should fire Thorn and Kiki too. This is a pathetic team without a real shooter. And when you have Lopez and Harris, you need shooters!!!!

Yeah, Thorn has made mistakes, the biggest one of them being not being able to get an actual coach.

We could not possibly re-sign Kenyon Martin to a max contract (especially coming off his brilliant 3 for 23 shooting performance against the Spurs in the NBA Finals). He is nowhere near a max player and has proven that every season since he left.

Getting Vince to fill a major scoring void was a good patchwork job but extending him for 4 more years was a back-breaker when it was evident a Kidd-Carter team with a lousy frontcourt was going nowehere.

For whatever reason, Thorn has never been able to find any solid shooting role players (Kittles and Harris were the best shooters under his tenure and already in place) or a real beef-eating rebounder/shot-blocker type to at least clog the middle.

This team was coming off a year when they were 2 games from winning it all when Ratner arrived. Kidd was on one leg in the ’04 playoffs and they still took the eventual champion Pistons to 7 games before getting crushed in the series clincher.

They had 2 team that were probably good enough to get back to the Conference Finals in ’06 and ’07 but lousy coaching and Vince melting under the bright lights cost them series against Miami and Cleveland respectively.

Whether or not Thorn is the miracle worker we thought he was when he got Kidd and RJ in those two heists disguised as NBA trades, he has certainly been handcuffed by this horrific ownership group and we will never rewally know whether he could have come up with the goods to keep Kidd happy so he could retire as a Net and if the team could remained the semi-power in the East that it had become before Ratner ruined it all.

thorn sucks. totally over-rated

Andres is 100 % correct….Both Thorn and frank need to go….

i don’t think you could blame thorn or Kiki about these bad moves they have made because as we can see the moves were made since ratner became the owner

I recall Thorn changed SAR’s contract to a 4 year contract with team options on the last two years. SAR rejected it immediatly… went to the Kings for the 1 year MLE… and is now out of the league.

The Nets payroll was in the top seven for three straight years…in spite of huge losses. After the 2005-06 season, they had to take out a $60 million loan, which I believe may be the biggest loan ever taken out by an NBA team (other than to facilitate an ownership change).

My point is that there is PLENTY of blame to go around, including the dreadful fan base. As for the front office you can’t look at that miserable draft record between 2003 and 2008 without cringing.

As for Carter’s contract, the Nets had NO choice. If he went somewhere else, they would not have been able to replace him and their losses would have skyrocketed. As noted a hundred times, no major free agent has EVER joined the Nets out of his own volition. The Nets have resigned players acquired in trades, but the best player they ever signed as a pure free agent was Armen Gilliam.

at Net Income:

“My point is that there is PLENTY of blame to go around, including the dreadful fan base.”

That comment is unnecessary and a complete non sequitur.
The only move that was amde by the front office that could have possibly been related to the fan base is the re-signing of Vince Carter because Ratner (an absolute complete sham in every sense of the word) thought VC would somehow help fill an arena that was empty because of his threats to move the team!

As I’ve tried to make you aware of many, many times, the Nets have never had the biggest or most boisterous fan base in the league, but there are plenty of us to go around and most of us are very LOYAL. Which is much more than I can say for the Knicks fan base. The people filling the Garden now are tourists and businessmen on freebees. Most of their truw fans (I know plenty of them) are completely turned off since the team has become so bad and more or less ignore them. All you need to do is listen to WFAN in NY for a day or two to relaize nobody is calling about the Knicks.

You made a lot of good points in your very well-written account of the Nets breakdown and I really enjoyed reading it – but then you find the need to take a shot at the fans of the team that you are supposedly providing with a fan site for and it makes absolutely no sense!

I’m sorry I’ve haven’t taken your instruction, but loyalty doesn’t pay players. Season tickets do. The Nets have four sources of income: league TV revenues, shared equally among all 30 teams; local TV revenues, which the Nets get screwed on; sponsorships, which Yormark has done well with; and ticket sales.

The Nets cannot sell tickets in New Jersey, period. End of story. There is no debate on this issue…none. You can rattle off all the platitudes you want about loyalty…smoyalty.

True fans? True fans buy tickets.

Did my post offend?
(I posted twice, but asked to delete the first.)

Total lack of class displayed in that post by Net Income, it’s counterproductive to make an excellent break down of what happened to this team since the person you have supported on here for so long, Bruce Ratner, took over and then you follow it up with a cheap shot @ the fanbase, many of whom do buy tickets.

Not surprising, but come on.

@ NI…..I consider myself a TRUE Nets Fan….Just because I won’t drive 75 plus miles and 2 hours one way to a game does not mean that I am not true….I’ve been following the Nets on Channel nine since the ABA Days when they had Bill Paultz,Rick Barry ,Bill Melchioni,etc….I buy Nets mugs,hats,shirts,etc…. I watch every game on YES and most of the Encores… There are a small number of fans still around here and yes , we discuss the Nets all the time and we want the best for them which means to get a coach who can help this team win and be happy….I did attend a Nets game in NJ a few years back and they also had a pre-season game here in Bridgeport at the Harbor yard Arena against the Knicks where I purchased 12 front row tickets behind the Nets bench @ $106.00 per ticket…I also went to another pre-season game here against the Raptors and they had VC and we had JKIDD and KMART…I have Rookie Cards of Mike Giminnski who played B-Ball at High School in the town next to me and of JKIDD,KMART,VC ,etc…I attended High school in Bridgeport and went to the State Final game when we played against Super John Williamson and he dropped 53 points on us and Oh Yeah , I have at least two of his Rookie Cards……Please don’t insinuate that I am not a True Fan..Thank You….

at Net Income:

“True fans? True fans buy tickets.”

Again – some true fans do still buy tickets (like me as long as it is secondary market since I won’t support Ratner or Yormark).

Many other true fans will return to buying tickets if the Nets ever announce a permanent move to Newark (you know this but won’t admit it).

Otherwise you are right in part – fans will not be coming any more to see a lame duck 15-win team with the owner constantly threatening to leave the state and the words “New Jersey” removed from just about anything associated with the team. And why would they???

@ Smack Adams….I posted the first post and it disappeared so don’t feel bad..I assume that it was not good enough to lead this discussion in the right direction being that I am not a true Nets Fan because I want what is best for my team,The Nets……I’m guessing that this is why I was banned from the Forum a few years back….I should have been true to frank regardless of How I feel about my team…Oh Well " FRANK HAPPENS"

Nets attendance is horrible. Only time IZOD is full is opening night (not this year) or for the Knicks, Lakers or Celtics. No amount of platitudes or insults will change that. Sorry.

True fans buy tickets…wowwwwwww. So people who work and cant make it to games are not true fans, people who cant afford tickets are not true fans, people who dont drive arent true fans, and people who are handicapped and cant get around at will arent true fans? That statement is truly pathetic.

at Net Income:

Just to correct your comment about me from a previous post since I doubt you’ll see it on there:

My allegiance to the Nets has NOTHING to do with how close I am to the arena. I attended games for many years from Brooklyn as well as CT and MA. I have remained 100 percent loyal throughout until Ratner stole the team and has since threatened to steal the team from New Jersey.

I am originally from Brooklyn but if I wanted to root for the NYC team, I had the option with the Knicks for all my life. I became a New Jersey Nets fan because I love where the team plays.

I NEVER said I am opposed to a Newark move. I said I do not support a temporary move there as a stopover to Brooklyn because that is a farce and afurther slap in the face to us fans of the team playing in New Jersey. I also said my first choice would be to remain at the Meadowlands because I happen to like it there, but I certainly see how a move to Newark makes the MOST sense out of all the possibilities.

Please read my comments carefully if you are going to make these types of accusations, I certainly read everythign you have to say even though I disagree with 95 percent of it.

@ NI…..Yes , when the Nets played the Knicks here in Bridgeport ,Ct…The arena was sold out…I think it was 8,000 seats and probably mostly Knicks fans….Even when we had JKIDD ,he was disturbed by the lack of fans at the games and it did take a toll sometimes on how the team played….Although , myself and other true Net fans that can’t or won’t go to the actual games do still care….I’m hoping that when Prokohov purchases the Nets , this will change as I do feel bonded to the actual fans that can and do go to the games…We are still all Net fans …If we didn’t care we would not be here constuctively criticizing our team….I’m hoping that Prokohov will buy real estate in the arena area and bring thousands of Russian Nets Fans to live here and give them an incentive of season tickets for their whole family to fill the seats…..IDEA : How about for every game Yormark has two or three segments called ….“Ask the Fans” (You know ,Like ,Ask the Announcers)The actual fans that attend the games have a chance to be on TV and state their views on the team or the game on hand…(Of Course , it may have to be time delayed)…A benefit or priveledge for attending the game…Maybe a Nice Prize ?..Tickets,etc ?? Any Opinions ??

Let’s not take my comments out of context. I respect fans loyalty, but to read Isaac’s comments, he believes loyalty is all that is needed. It isn’t. The Nets are losing tens of millions of dollars a year because fans don’t come out. Period. That is reality. There is no financial skullduggery here. The team has reported the losses quarterly.

The previous owners lost a somewhat smaller amount but did very well when they sold a team at a $125 million profit… and succeeded in getting the new owners to sign onto a long term TV contract with a network they still part of. Quite profitable for YES.

Isaac wants the convenience of the IZOD. He does not want to go to NEWARK.

I’m hurt…I’m still hurt…I am a Fan…Anyways ’ I never appreciated how the YES Channel has treated our Nets..Ya know , No televised Pre-season Games…Lost playoff games to the Yank’s regular season games ,etc… I’m tired of playing second fiddle..So I hope that Prokohov will start his own channel , "The Nets Channel " Where the Nets are number one on this channel and in the standings…..What other programming do you guys feel would be worthy enough to be on the New Nets channel ??…How about..No Pun intended…" The Lawrence Frank Show " …Interview players..B-ball News and highlites ,etc…I’ve always felt that he would be better at commentating ?

The Nets get less than $10 million for game rights from YES. By some internal calculations, that’s less than half what they would get if the bidding was reopened and fair.

The Nets are stuck with YES til 2012-13, although the last year the team can opt for arbitration on the price tag. If they’re in Brooklyn, the numbers will go up.

Maybe Prokohov can buy out the contract with the YES Channel ??

Or buy the Cable Company ????

at Net Income:

Wow- we are having a real communication breakdown here huh?
Again – it is not about convenience!! I like the Meadowlands Arena – that is where the majority of the team’s history exists – the good, the bad and the really ugly.

In the past few years, it has been anything but convenient due to the Xanadu disaster and the building of the new football stadium (also unnecessary) – but I am still going there due to my love of the team and what it USED To be all about.

I would support a PERMANENT move to Newark even though I think the new arena there offers great views and amentieis for those fortunate enough to sit downstairs and is drab and unfathomably high and steep if you are a “regular guy” sitting upstairs.

I will not support a 2-year move there as a layover because it offers NOTHING to the New Jersey fans and is instead a desperate attempt for Ratner/Yormark and now Prokorov to sucks the few remaining interested people in New Jersey dry by offering them the false promise of something better.

Are we clear now???

true fans?? im from POLAND and i’m warchung every game… now a days the nets are the shadow of tje NY team that were on the nba finals… D harris is a crap palyer he can only score the reast young core will never win a game. our best player won’t be a 6th man in utah… sorry about my english nowadays nets sucs 100%

Bottomline, I have been a NEW JERSEY NETS fan for 15 plus years and I have been buying tickets to games for the last 10 years. You can’t expect sell outs when the team has been irrelevant on the court for 27 out of 32 years. If you win, you draw fans to the arena!!!!!! PERIOD. Have you noticed the almighty Knicks don’t sell out anymore that often. WHY? They have not been winning for ten plus years. The only difference, they have a long history of their teams being atleast playoff caliber, thus, already having a faithful following due to those winning seasons.

Fans must be earned. This is not high school, where you attend games because you are enrolled and want to show “school spirit”. This is PROFESSIONAL basketball. If the owners cannot earn a profit they should not blame the fans for not spending enough money. Blaming the Nets fans for losing is preposterous.

Nets management could not have driven more fans away if it tried. You don’t earn fans by disrespecting them and putting an inferior product on the court and saying that you are “rebuilding.” The Nets management are not rebuilding by signing Lee, Yi, Boone, TWill, et al.; the Nets management are destroying the Nets future. None of these players can start for a winning NBA team. You don’t earn fans by giving positions to players regardless of performance or talent. Instead, you earn “boos” when the poor devil performs to his talent.

The Nets management did have a choice other than giving away VC/Ryan Anderson for nothing …. get new investors or pony up some more cash like any BUSINESS needing new capital. If Nets management cannot raise enough money to field a competitive team, then they should have sold the team long ago.

at Robby:

“If Nets management cannot raise enough money to field a competitive team, then they should have sold the team long ago.”

Better yet, a scam artist like Ratner should have never been allowed to buy into a so-called professional league. Shame on David Stern for allowing this circus to fester under Ratner.