Great work NI. While I may not agree with you on a variety of issues surrounding the team, I appreciate the work you put into the FAQ’s as they clear things up.

Unfortunately, I do see some flaws in those questions you were answering Net Income, and don’t feel offended by them, because you do know that you will be challenged to a debate on this, and you will be prepared for it. For the one about what will happen next, talk can mean anything. What Yormark and Ratner are saying is only assumed, not assured. I can remember back in 2004 when that so-called Freedom Stone was dropped into the WTC site on the claim that the groundbreaking for the Freedom Tower would start, but it turnned into two years of redesign with nothing getting off the ground, and that stone is now gone. Goldstien lives there and he will know if the groundbreaking will actually happen or not. BTW, eviction as he mentioned it along with Matt Brinkerhoff, the lawyer representing the plaintiffs, mentioned that there has to be another process before the eviction sheriffs can come, so there is still time to save their properties before then. The other lawsuits are about failure to understand the changes because most of the reviews were brought as of 2006 without noticing the redesigns or even new costs. I am surprised that you didn’t mention that if Brooklyn fails they would end up in Seattle or KC as you have been claiming from time to time. As for Proky, it’s very likely that anyplace that isn’t the Meadowlands will work for him even if it does mean going to the Prudential Center over in Newark. There is more claims on the Atlantic Yards Reports that gives more detail on what I just mentioned, so go there for more.

Great summary article. Please send to ESPN.

To my knowledge ESPN has yet to formally announce the Court decision on TV, even as a news caption.

Maybe ESPN just assumed it was going to happen. However, if Lebron happened to now comment on Brooklyn, you could be sure it would be headline news. I mean all the networks covered Tiger Woods’ minor car accident (some facial scratches) as the #1 story of the day (2nd top story being a hopeful reality TV gimmick at the White House Dinner!).

@Tal
You have no idea what you’re talking about re eviction. None. It’s tiresome since your information is simply so bad. There is NO way, none, that these people can avoid condemnation and eviction. That was decided at the Court of Appeals. Done, over, kaput.

I don’t feel offended. I feel put upon that day after day I have to correct you. Your incredible position in another thread that Yormark was responsible for the trades of Kidd and Carter shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how the franchise works.

One sensitive point that is worth discussing:

What if Thorn were able to work out some great trade, that would enhance the teams’ future and help to attract a top FA this summer? Such a trade might take some extra $ to be attractive to one of the other teams.

Prokhorov seems to want to have it both ways – he is only a prospective owner, yet he doesn’t want Thorn to spend any money in the interim. I believe it would be forbidden for Proky to make any decisions until he would be approved by NBA.

So one would assume the only way to pull off a good trade would be through a word of mouth agreement with Proky’s consultants. Ratner would have to take a chance that any debts he incurred would be taken care of later on.

@NI, great work. No doubt you did your homework on this one. For that you can come on down one day and say hello. I apprecaite this forum you have built that allows us to voice our views and sometimes just our feelings. Its sad when some guys just speak out of ignorance because they happen to have a pc.Great Job once again. I can see Atlantic Ave clearly now.

Net Income, please go to the Atlantic Yards Report and listen to the videos that Oder linked, because everything that I stated about the evictions is mentioned there and what I was talking about.

@ Tal -

when will you wake up and face the facts that this project is happening?

When the Mets will win another World Series.

@Tal
I do not care what is said on AYR’s videos. The eminent domain issue is decided. The state can take the properties, period. End of Story.

They still need Step 2 of that, which is not there as mentioned in those interviews that you refuse to watch, plus it’s not over as long as they are still there.

Have i been banned or something? I haven’t said anything bad but yet once again my comment gets deleted. What’s going on?

Taking from some to give to others is never justified.

So Tal, you think there is a chance that a court will permit property owners to say in their homes?

Is that what youre saying? Because if it is, you do not understand what happened at the Court of Appeals and apparently have not read anything about the ruling.

at Net Income:

“I do not care what is said on AYR’s videos. The eminent domain issue is decided. The state can take the properties, period. End of Story.”

SICKENING.

Isaac

its not sickening, its the LAW…

DG lost, DDDB lost,

In the words of Mike Goldberg after a finished UFC fight…

“Its ALLLLLLLLLL OVERRRRRR”

SmartNetsFan, would you have supported segregation after the ruling of Plessy vs Ferguseon all because the judges claimed that was the law of being seperate but equal? What about the ruling of Barron vs Baltimore on claiming that levels of the state and other local governments can act if the US Bill of Rights don’t apply to them? Would you also be in defense of slavery after the ruling of Scott vs Sanford? My point is that just because that was the ruling doesn’t mean that they are right about it. I thank that lone judge who believed that eminent domain was being abused compared to the six others who were so blind.

@Tal – Getting the 15 people out of the way is perfectly democratic and much less scary than letting them file new lawsuits to block progress.

Allowing DG to win is admitting that this country has lost its greatness and we are willing to let selfish individuals destroy all progress using the judiciary against its original purpose.

Unlike Plessy vs Ferguson, the law was perfect in this case.

@ NI,

Despite my strong disagreements with you on this subject and your less-than-satisfactory demeanor, I have to give you kudos on this latest set of FAQs. If only everything you did were more like this…

@David

The Mayor abdicated responsibility by permitting a state takeover of the project. He has supported the project, but never on the basis of a cost/benefit analysis. The Borough president has no say on land use issues.

There was no vote in the New York state senate or assembly on this project, just a vote by a respective representative of the governor, assembly majority leader and senate majority leader.

I consider this a lack of democratic process.

New York City’s ULURP (Uniform Land Use Review Process) would have allowed the city council (my local representative) to have a say.

I understand you have taken the rhetorical stance that only 15 people oppose the project. I know that nothing I write here will cause you consider the thousands who oppose it.

@Steve – Regardless of your position, I am glad AY got the right answer.

I am still appalled by the selfishness of the 15 holdouts and am glad a few judges of NY’s highest court called them out.

New Jersey had it chance to PROVE it wanted the Nets… No one went and the Nets have bleed money… it’s OVER! They are gone

at NBA is a joke:

Exactly when did New Jersey have a “chance” to prove this? Over the last few years when the owner of the team told the fans of this team to “get lost”. When the marketing moron came up with cute gimmicks such as taking “New Jersey” off almost all team merchandise and logos including the team’s road jerseys??? I still go because I want to see my team while it plays in New Jersey – but how could you blame the thousands of Nets fans that have been totally turned off by these despicable people? Are you aware that all the dieahrds that lined the front row opposite the bench such as Jerry Capece (who for years was outr biggest cheerleader at games) are all long gone due to Ratner. These were the big time investors in the team that paid for those courtside seats and they are finished with this team unless we somehow get rid of Ratner and remain in New Jersey.

Face it – New Jersey clearly HAS NOT been given a chance under this deplorable ownership.

isaac
what about the finals run pre-ratner?

Issac…. New Jersey has had since 1976 to show its support!

at smartnets and nbaisajoke:

From the time Kidd arrived in 2001 until 2004 when Ratner stole the team, this frachise was FINALLY building a true identity and making a dent in the surrounding area. I lived within NYC at the time and I was seeing Kidd, Kenyon and RJ jerseys quite frequently , the newspaper coverage was finally becoming split in the NY tabloids as opposed to when the Nets were ignored when I was one of 2 or 3 Nets fans amongst a sea of Knicks and Bulls supporters throughout my time there in the 90s.

When Ratner unfortunately arrived all that good will quickly disappeared – he and his people made it clear we were USELESS to him and that he would abandon us as soon as he could. Had the NJ group won the bidding (and in reality they offered just about the same amount if not more) – this team would probably have moved to Newark with the Devils and might still have J-Kidd and or Vince and a substantial fan base to go along with them!!!

You can’t go by what happened in the last 5 years – Ratner and Yormark have humiliated us for trying to support the team in spite of them!

I’m not going by the last 4 years – I’m talking previous years – NJ never supported this team the way it should have been…
empty arenas, lack of fan support in the state.
It wasn’t until Kidd arrived that things turned around a little bit…a smart business man tried to take advantage of it and wanted to move the team to BK.
Because of years of delays (won’t get into this one) the team was put in a situation to re-build.

Also – if Kidd.RJ.Carter was still on the team, there is no saying we’d have the supporting cast to build a championship roster…Rod struggled with that for years with Kidd

at smartnetsfan:

I agree with your last point about Thorn struggling to add those final pieces to the puzzle while Kidd was here – and I admit part of the problem was Kidd himself. As much as I worship Kidd the player for what he brought to this team, I despise Kidd the GM – the guy after all ordered the likes of Rodney Rogers, Dikembe Mutombo (5 years too late), Alonzo Mourning (who ended up being vital again in Miami) and worst of all the man brought us Lawrence Frank, the excuse for a coach we have been stuck with for long after his departure (which he also ordered).

But your first points about New Jersey not caring about this team are not fair. The Nets could never be as popular as the Knicks, who had already made in-roads in Northern Jersey or even to some degree the Sixers, who owned a great deal of South Jersey’s hearts. It is truly a shame that a good amount of people in the state chose to remmain Knicks or Sixers fans but again some of that was changing as the team finally began to carve out an identity before Ratner’s arrival. The state deserves a basketball team and no real Nets fan should be supporting these glorified thieves.

Must be the holidays when we agree

The claim about NJ not being supported of the Nets or even the Americans was because they were part of the ABA originally, which was epondunk league. Outside of the imediate area of where they played, nobody knew them. If someone was going around NYC durring the early 70’s and saying “How about them Nets”, most wouldn’t have had a clue what they were talking about because they weren’t a big league team like the Knicks. The reason why parts of NJ support the Knicks (1946) and 76ers (1949) is because they have been around longer and have existed since almost the beginning of the NBA, while the Nets only came later. Nevertheless, they did have fans when moving back into NJ in 1977. As a matter of fact, I can still remember looking at the NBA attendance figures after the 2007-2008 when the Nets suprisingly had averaged a better home attendance than the 76ers did despite the fact that they made the playoffs while the Nets did not and the same for the Hornets, who also made the playoffs that year. For some reason, everytime I do look at those attendance figures on the official site of ESPN, the Nets are never dead last, plus they somehow tend to average more at home than at least one team that had a better winning percentage than they did. Speaking of the 76ers, whenever I look at the boxscore, they can barely get to being half-filled even against the best teams let alone their own rivals compared to both the Knicks and Nets that are able to get almost a sellout on those games.

The good news is that soon we will not have to worry about trudging NJ support.

Most of Brooklyn is hard core Knicks that would never convert even if the Nets did move there. The truth is that nobody in Brooklyn can ever replace what was going on NJ. BTW, if this process went through ULURP, it wouldn’t even survive the first stage, because of all the council members and community boards that would oppose, which is why it was done through SEQR instead. Let’s not forget that Brooklyn already has practice facilities for the Knicks, Rangers, and even the Liberty, so it would be hard for the Nets to fit in there. Even without Marbury, Brooklyn is still Knicks terroritory has it always been.

2.5 million reasons why Brooklyn will be better than NJ
10 subway lines, LIRR access all will feed right to a brand new, state of the art arena
If the Nets show in Brooklyn with a good team – this building will sell out nightly – mark my words

I hate to break this up to you, but the number of lines of mass transit means nothing for the Mets and Yankees. Both of their stadiums are located off of subway and rail lines, but many still drive there. BTW, they both have massive parking lots and garages. Of course there are many places in the outer boroughs that have autocentric areas. Some of them act like they were never even part of the city. Either way, the subway station nearby is already very busy and the games there will only make it worse. I highly doubt that the MTA will provide more train cars on those days as they are not doing that for just about every other NYC sports team be it the Knicks, Rangers, Liberty, Mets, and Yankees. I will not say that the Prudential Center will be better just because Newark-Penn Station is a transit hub for pretty much all NJ Transit lines along with PATH and the Newark City Subway. There is also the fact that it’s near a highway, which the Barclays Center won’t even be close to one, so the traffic won’t be residual as both Atlantic and Flatbush Avenues will be packed as many are making their way to the BQE.

Tal – You are right. The Nets will suffer through their entire Brooklyn exlstenece and yearn for the days of full arenas during their golden NJ years.

And the courts got AY perfectly right calling out the incredibly selfish 15 critics that put the entire democratic process at risk. The selfish ones risked making a sham out of the entire judicial process and making NYC a laughing stock among progrssive cities of the world.

People in brooklyn will switch from the knicks to the nets just because we will have Brooklyn on the uniforms. anything with brooklyn on it sells. the arena will be sold-out every single night.

David, the only selfish person here is that man from Cleveland known as ‘The Rat’. Using eminent domain for private use goes against its definination in the US Constitution. The founding fathers will turnover in their graves if they heard about that, though probably already did in the ruling of Kelo vs New London. I betcha if it was your property, you wouldn’t like if people considered you selfish for fighting to keep your property. If that was me, I would only leave is after I am murdered, though I will probably have the Mossad take care of the eviction sheriffs since their hard to find anyway. Point is, that ruling was a dark day for the state of NY. Just wait until the come for you, and then we will see who is selfish. As for fans, many of them will NOT convert and that’s even if the Knicks finish worse than the Nets.

My God kicking people out of there home against there will.What have we come too.jerseyfan out

One other thing David, construction booms do not always equal progress. Saying that NYC will be the laughing stock for not building this is false. The only people who think this are those architecture snobs that I have encountered on message boards. They always tend to act as yesman to just about every project and will support them even if they are done behind closed doors against the process. Dubai has a construction boom yet the UAE is still considered a thrid world nation despite that. As a matter of fact, the city of Dubai is now in a huge debt and a credit crunch. Keep in mind that the UAE is one of the last countries in the world to not have an elected government. Other things is that the country is big on slave labor, which is actually outlawed but is never enforced, and declares any forms of a union to be illegal. In other words if there were bad conditions or hardly ever getting paid and they decided to go on strike, they would either be arrested or deported for doing that. Many of those workers are forced to serve the elite in the most humilating way. As a matter of fact, Dubai is barely even green despite how much they claim to be. The use of the fountains makes it hard for them to save water, while the artificial islands do long term damage to the aquatic ecosystem. Part of the debt comes from the fact that UAE actually imports more than they export hence they have to pay back. Even coutnries like Israel and Japan, which both have very limited resources are trying to conserve what they have so that they don’t have to rely so much on imports. The truth is that construction booms don’t eqaul progress, because many cities in third world nations have them, but are still poor. Another thing is that they may have the quantity of skyscrapers, but not the quality of a world class city such as NYC. There is really more to a city than just having so many skyscrapers.

@William (Brooklyn)

Not so fast. While Ratner wants it to be the Brooklyn Nets, Proky has hinted that the team may very well be called the “New York Nets”.