That’s exactly the response I expected from Yormark.
He obviously has been eying The Rock, as Plan B, from the time he scheduled 2 preseason games there.

Apparently, he is now concerned the with the news getting out about “a deal”, since he doesn’t want that to negatively influence the Litigation or financing of Brooklyn and purchase by Proky.

The only question is whether “the deal” to temporarily move to Newark still be available after election day, since this is also about Politics.

@jerry25
There is no “obviously” here. The Devils guaranteed the Nets $300,000 to play the two preseason games in Newark. That was the chief motivator.

Brooklyn IS closer than ever before and that’s why they are willing to do this NOW. I mean Prokhorov has said REPEATEDLY that he is not interested in anything other than the Brooklyn deal. You think he came to New York to discuss backup deals? Please.

It drives me crazy how anti-Jersey you are. I know you REPEATEDLY say how you want the best for the Nets frachise, but what do you have to say about how the Nets have treated New Jersey fans?

I’m the fan with a full season ticket package upstairs and a partial package downstairs.

I have lived in New Jersey all my life, own two houses in New Jersey, married a Jersey girl.

I’m anti-New Jersey?

Yes I get that, and we have been over this. What about the question I asked? Give me your opinion.

How about how New Jersey fans have treated the Nets?

I am not getting into a long, repetitive debate on this subject because I have learned it doesn’t change any minds.

Here’s your choice: the Nets move to Brooklyn and get one of the world’s richest men as their owner and one of the world’s most modern arenas as their home, or maybe they move to Newark (or elsewhere) with yet another marginally wealthy owner and a nice arena owned by an NHL franchise and the city of Newark.

That is the bottom line. Suggesting that a guy who wants to be a big part of NEW YORK would be willing to switch gears and move the Nets to NEWARK is based on nothing more than hope. To conclude otherwise would suggest that everyone is lying.

And there may come a time in your life when you will live or work in New York. People move across the river all the time…just like the Nets are proposing. It’s not the end of the world.

From State Senate President Richard Codey (also a Nets season ticket holder):

"What everyone is forgetting is that the Nets, themselves, determine their fate," Codey said. "We’ll find out in a month or so if they’re going to get an arena in Brooklyn. If not, they might go anywhere — St. Louis, Kansas City, Seattle? And the deal doesn’t work for the Devils unless they have the Nets [longterm].

"I’d love to see Newark thrive, and for us to be able to keep Izod open, but there’s a Russian guy involved," Codey said. "And, of course, if Brooklyn’s not involved, he goes back to Russia."

http://www.northjersey.com/news/State_Dems_lukewarm_to_Izod-Prudential_deal.html

Wow NI that is some quote from Senator Codey. NY is like that guy that doesn’t want that chick till someone else wants her. lol. seriously. Is NY gonna let Newark New Jersey take millions of revenues throgh event revenues, transporation, taxes on business and income tax on those who will be employed at the Barclays. The boost to the econmoy in Brooklyn is proably the one thing they can’t really project yet they know it will be great. Sure they love to take NETS hey NJ took Jets in their mind… Be recognized by the world in stadium areana name. (Barclays Bank) Top ten banking globally. Have a Billionaire owner. The marketing of Brooklyn everyday via the NBA. The boom that 700 million bonds sold will give the stock market and the economy,. I can’t see the politicians judges or state agencies letting this disappear and having a AY acres remaining a dump site for the next 30 years plus.

Donald,

You forget the revenues (direct and ancillary) the Nets provide to the State of NJ (where they currently play, and have played for the last 28 years). Why should Jersey give up the Nets without a fight?

Beyond that, all I have to say is that no more than a week ago, Yormark would have said there is NO POSSIBILITY of the Nets playing ANY regular season games at the Prudential Center, whether temporarily or permanent. Now look what we’re talking about. As I have earlier, Yormark’s job under Ratner has been to lie about almost everything, and what has not been reported to the public is more important than what has. And just because a pro-Brooklyn/ pro-NY poster runs this site doesn’t mean he is right in his opinion or any more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

“Anthony (Jersey) Says:
I know you REPEATEDLY say how you want the best for the Nets franchise, but what do you have to say about how the Nets have treated New Jersey fans?”

Your question won’t be answered on here(if you didn’t notice with the way it was sidestepped), that subject is taboo. All that matters is how evil us loyal and supportive scumbag New Jersey-ites are for not coming out over the last two decades to support a franchise that was the joke of the NBA until Jason Kidd came here, even though a lot of us on this site have supported this franchise for years and feel slighted about the way the franchise has conducted themselves since Bruce Ratner purchased the team. This will never be addressed by the ones trashing the NJ Fanbase because they know full well that they don’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to the product that was being put on the floor. I’ve been a Nets fan for 20 years ongoing and I can count on one hand the amount of good, solid teams that were fielded in that amount of time. But let the blowhards tell it and this has nothing to do with the issue, and regardless of how bad the teams were there should have been sell outs every night.

The truth is that the Nets failed to build a solid fanbase because they never put together winning teams until the 21st century, and when they finally reached the finals, surprisingly at that, the apathy had sunk in so much that attendance was poor added w/ the fact that they play in one of the worst venues for pro sports…and now that they are moving(which is also due to the stupidity of the democrats running this state into the ground) they have tried to take a dump on the fans repeatedly with cheap tactics and insults. It’s not a coincidence that the attendance was better when they moved to an accessible location, but it means little now. I’ll still enjoy the Nets but I won’t go out to support them in Brooklyn like I do here.

When Ratner hired a well known arena economics analyst to look into the viability of Barclays, he claimed one big advantage for Ratner was the enormous amount of state and city income tax the Nets players and front office types would pay after a move.

As far as I know, the only big money makers who currently live in New York are Thorn and Vandeweghe. Most of the players live along the Hudson, several in gated communities in Edgewater. The expert based his analysis on a supposition that the Nets players, to avoid double taxation, would move to NYC. With the Nets players and front office types earning $75+ million annually, there would be big tax benefit from the move. It’s the equivalent, after all, of 750 people making $100,000…and the state and city often offer all manner of subsidies and tax benefits for companies willing to move (or keep) that many people.

@Mr. Dollar Bills
The truth is that fans didn’t come out in significant enough numbers to make the Nets viable as a business…even when the team was lead by Jason Kidd (who often mocks New Jersey as an NBA venue). Not now, not during the Katz-Chambers era, not during the Secaucus Seven era.

Mr T,

You are correct about Yormark being a full blown liar, it was funny to see the shills for Ratner’s real estate project try to act like this guy wasn’t, and then doubling back when it came time to insert their feet inside of their mouths.

But the politicos in this state have already given up the Nets without a fight because they are all corrupt. If the Nets mattered to these state democrats/republicans who are too busy lining their pockets, they would have been in Newark awhile ago. Read the link Net Income posted, and you’ll see the mindset of these animals.

Yes, and why didn’t the fans come out, Net Income??

The Nets went to the playoffs six straight years between 2001-02 and 2006-07. At no point in that stretch did they finish in the top half of NBA home attendance, based on average attendance per game.

In 2001-02, the Nets finished 23rd in home attendance, 22nd in road attendance.

In 2002-03, the Nets finished 26th in home attendance, 10th in road attendance.

In 2003-04, the Nets finished 26th in home attendance, 10th in road attendance.

In 2004-05, the Nets finished 26th in home attendance, 29th in road attendance.

In 2005-06, the Nets finished 18th in home attendance, 8th in road attendance.

In 2006-07, the Nets finished 20th in home attendance, 11th in road attendance.

Even last year, out of the playoffs and rebuilding. The Nets finished 25th in home attendance, they finished 8th in road attendance.

So in five of the six years when the Nets were contenders, they are more attractive to opponents’ fans than they are to New Jersey fans. And even in the two years since the Nets left the ranks of contenders, they are STILL more attractive to opponents’ fans.

All these stats can be found on either the Basketball Reference website or the ESPN attendance pages.

PS It’s not all about the crummy venue in East Rutherford. That same crummy venue attracts world-class numbers for concerts, family shows, etc. According to the last Billboard charts, the IZOD was the 10th most popular non-sporting venue in the world, fourth in the US, behind venues in New York, LA and Las Vegas.

Facts are inconvenient, aren’t they? Of course, when they are, you can always resort to name-calling.

You can’t compare a one night concert or circus to a weekly NBA schedule. I have been to many concerts at the IZOD and if it is a band or musician you love you will make the trip just like those fans that make the trip every Sunday for the Giants and Jets. Not to mention, the driving conditions to the IZOD have gotten worse over the last couple of years with that horrible creation of the Xanidu. It becomes a circus just to get in the parking lot.

I just find it strange that the Nets drew more people when they were a terrible team in the league than they were when they were one of the best. According to the “Total Basketball Encyclopedia” , published in 2003:
 the Nets in 1997-1998 with a 43-39 record averaged 17,525
in 2001-02, with a 52-30 record, the average attendance was 13,761

in 1998-99, the worst team in the atlantic division with a record of 16-34 averaged 16,614
after they went to their 2nd finals in 2002-2003 and a record of 49-33, they averaged 15,184

I’m sure we’re down to the 13,000-14,000 number again at the present, if that.

Boy, my comments aren’t even up for moderation anymore – they’re just deleted on sight. How about the same standard be held up for the site moderators? When did you guys get this sensitive?

soul driver,

That is simply because YankeeNets (the ownership consortium before Ratner) decided to start reporting the actual turnstile numbers instead of ticket sales. If ticket sales alone are considered, attendance appears to be higher, even though any one of us who have been to a game or watched on YES knows attendance figures are being fudged once again.

@Soul Driver and Mr. T

It sort of makes sense that YankeeNets would do that. They wanted to create a sense of urgency for a Newark arena at the time. By reporting the attendance as being on the lower end of the spectrum, it would add more demand for a new arena, or so they hoped.

There’s no need for me to call you names Net Income, especially since on this board, a person can’t return the smugness and abrasiveness that you direct towards other posters on here everyday without someone making edits to or censoring every little post that knocks you down a peg.

Facts are never inconvenient. They are either used to tell the truth, or spin the truth. Anyone who participates in discussions on this board knows how you like to use facts. Why didn’t you include the league averages for attendance in each of those years when posting those facts? Not that they have anything to do with answering the question I asked.

Again, what happened prior to this decade, Net Income, to cause such general apathy in regards to the Nets in this state? Or were you too busy rooting for the New York Knicks to understand why the team failed to build a solid fanbase prior to Jason Kidd’s arrival??

Last season, the Denver Nuggets and the Orlando Magic both posted averages that were below the league average and one team made the finals, the other the West finals. The past few seasons give or take, the Nuggets and the Magic have made the playoffs, yet their attendance numbers are usually below the league average? I wonder why?

And please stop bringing up the nonsense about concerts…trying to compare one shot events like Hot 97’s Summer Jam or a Bruce Springsteen concert to a season full of Nets games is absolutely foolish and misleading.

Also, the fact that Newark was able to have a solid crowd and a better atmosphere for two preseason games speaks volumes about how badly the meadowlands has been a detriment to the success of the Nets.

Though Newark might not attract free agents, Brooklyn will, Harris said.

“Definitely,” he said. “I don’t know if Newark helps us or hurts us in the recruiting process. I know Brooklyn is definitely an attraction. Definitely. Newark may give a [vagabond] feel but as long as people are cheering for us that’s what matters and they’ll cheer wherever we go.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/newark_nets_get_called_for_traveling_pgam2OJhhBpj7bCc03XYnM

It looks like Harris is looking forward to playing in Brooklyn.

The Nets move to Newark will be permanent. That is the bad news for NI but good news for those who want the team to stay in NJ. The good news for both is that Prokhorov will be the owner.

inthenose Says:
October 24th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

The Nets move to Newark will be permanent. That is the bad news for NI but good news for those who want the team to stay in NJ. The good news for both is that Prokhorov will be the owner.

You wrong he said he will only be owner if the move to Brooklyn.

So, here are the turnstile numbers for 2004-05 and 2005-06. I don’t have the numbers for the years prior or subsequent to those two seasons. The numbers are normally proprietary but were provided to the Empire State Development Corp. and then released under a Freedom of Information Law request by a New York state assemblyman.

In 2004-05, the Nets reported an official number of 618,677, or 15,089. The real number, the turnstile number, was 545,617, or 13,307.

In 2005-06, the Nets reported an official number of 691,543, or 16,867. The real number, the turnstile number, was 634,320, or 15,471.

So in 2004-05, the official attendance for Nets games was inflated by 13.3%. In 2005-06, the official attendance for Nets games was inflated by 9.0%. The difference no doubt was due to the acquisition of Vince Carter and the health of the Big Three in 2005-06.

The official number is a recounting of all tickets purchased or given away. The turnstile number is what it appears to be, the actual number of people who passed through the turnstiles.

All NBA teams keep both numbers. That’s why I used the comparative ranking of the Nets attendance among NBA teams rather than the per game figures.

The turnstile number is what prospective owners look at when they decide whether to buy, along with the ticket revenue. The YankeeNets ownership wasn’t conspiring to inflate numbers for prospective buyers. Prospective buyers received all the data as part of their due diligence on the purchase.

You guys can make all sorts of suppositions or excuses, whatever you want to call them. You can call me “smug”. The reality is that there is no evidence of an appreciable fan base for the NBA in New Jersey.

@ Mr. Dollar BillLook and Jersey Fellas: I respect NI and complement on the job he has done with NETSDAILY. I dont know any other NBA team that has such a infomative and inclusive info on a un official team website. He is great at what he does for the NETS and for keeping us Net fans updated for the most part like we are in the team offcie itself. Now I differ on his opinion like his support of Lawrence Frank who I think has been tuned out and is a decent coach with Veteran Stars. With Young players he sucks. Now on Brooklyn. NI did not make Ratner choose to go to Brooklyn or even buy the team. IF NJ has had such fan base why didn’t previous owners succeed there. We went to the finals and we could even draw at the gate or on TV. Ray Chambers.. Mr. Newark himself could have moved us to NEwark but he didn’t for he realized it was a losing proposition. For goodness sake we have no Identity in NJ. Great state no doubt for those who have expeienced it but the reputation such as swamps and others(remember the proposed name change) and being New York little brother has never helped,. My point is this question his basketball opinion but dont blame this site for showing the reasoning and truth behind Brooklyn.

@inthenose

“The Nets move to Newark will be permanent. That is the bad news for NI but good news for those who want the team to stay in NJ. The good news for both is that Prokhorov will be the owner.”

This is flat out WRONG. Have you NOT been reading anything that has come out since Prokhorov has been involved in talks about buying the team? If there is no Brooklyn, the guy is gone. It is Brooklyn or nothing for him.

“Ray Chambers.. Mr. Newark himself could have moved us to NEwark but he didn’t for he realized it was a losing proposition.”

Ray Chambers and YankeeNets gave up on the original Newark arena plan at the time because the State of NJ was unwilling to subsidize am arena. As you know, there is an arena now, so there’s no need for Chambers to lobby for anything. He was (and still is) bullish on Newark. His son-in-law is in a head office position for the Devils. Probably not a coincidence.

“Mr. Newark” needed public financing to make the Nets work in New Jersey. Vanderbeek needed public financing to make the Devils work in New Jersey…and still he owes Newark $2 million in taxes.

Moreover, “Mr. Newark” and his partners in YES signed the Nets to an exclusive TV contract that pays them less than half what they should be making. That’s $10 million a year the Nets should have but don’t…a contract that runs through 2013.

In other words, this is a very difficult financial proposition even if you OWN the arena. Yet, you suggest that the Nets can make money in Newark.

The I-Scam Center should be imploded asap.
It is only open becuase of crooked Bergen County politicians and their corrupt cronies.
Take Live Nation away from I-Scam and no one would choose to attend an event there except Bergen County residents who have no New Jersey pride.

I will not buy 1 ticket to a Nets game in East Rutherford or Brooklyn if that ever happens.

I will buy season tickets to Newark as long as it is not a stop gap lame duck gimmick.

Agreed

Unfortunately I already bought a season ticket plan, so if the decision is brooklyns a go, I am basically helping fund the move, very disappointing.

@NI,
  I live and work in Manhattan, moved here 8 months ago…I am in the F.D. so getting to brooklyn to see the Nets would take me a few minutes, but I will help do anything I can to keep our team in New Jersey where they belong. Opening night vs the Magic I will be taking a train from Penn, to Secaucus, then getting on the bus to the Meadowlands. This will continue for the whole season. Im sure you are going to say, “Why are you so opposed to the move if your so close to brooklyn?” The answer is that I have a lot of pride in my home state and will not be living in Manhattan my whole life because I will move back to NJ at some point in the next 4-5 years tops. Being able to have New Jersey in front of Nets means a lot to me and plenty of other true fans.

New article in Sunday’s Star-Ledger reveals this:

“TRENTON — President Obama will make his third visit this year to New Jersey on November 1 in support of Gov. Jon Corzine’s campaign for governor, Democratic officials said today.

Obama will be joined by Corzine and Senator Loretta Weinberg at the Susquehanna Bank Center in Camden for a rally and then will head to Newark for another rally AT THE PRUDENTIAL CENTER (emphasis added)."

For all of you whp think I’m blowing smoke (Net Income), don’t tell me Obama’s not endorsing a move to Newark as much as he is endorsing Corzine. No one knew Obama was gonna make a THIRD trip to NJ.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/10/president_obama_will_visit_nj.html

Honestly, I wouldn’t keep the Nets at the Meadowlands because it’s just outdated and very obsolete. Newark is the perfect place for them. It puts them in the center of the state. With a transit hub nearby, it allows for fans from just about all over the state the come by. As a matter of fact, that game I went to last week, shows train schedules all over after the game ends, so that they can know when their’s is comming. As for Proky, he can still choose to be the owner of the Nets if they end up in Newark instead of Brooklyn, but that will be up to him, not others. If anyone is to compares years of home attendance for the Nets, the 76ers had an even bigger freefall than the Nets ever did if you look at those same years as the Nets did, and I can tell you that they once went from the top 5 one season to almost last the next season, which doesn’t even compare to the Nets fall in attendance. BTW, they still ranked higher in attendance than the Pacers and Bobcats, who both finished the season with higher winning percentages than the Nets did and had more state of the art arenas as well.

The Izod is great for concerts, family shows, ice shows, circuses. The Rock is made for all events, but specifically sports. Nets to the rock NOW. Get it done, corrupt NJ govt, get it done.

They’re testing the waters for another NBA franchise to relocate to Newark even if Brooklyn gets approved. Just like San Jose has been talking with the NBA, so has Kansas City and the Vancouver Canucks owner wants to bring another NBA franchise back to the city. This isn’t even counting Seattle, but they won’t approve a new arena, I see the KeyArena venue being destroyed for a State-of-the-Art soccer stadium for the Sounders FC who are rabidly popular in the city.