The Other VC offers: Were They Any Better?
by Net Income on Oct 17, 2009 9:26 PM EDT
in NetsDaily Blog
12 comments
In light of what we know (and it’s by no means comprehensive), the Magic deal was probably the best deal the Nets were offered for Vince Carter...and the $37.64 million he has left on his contract. The Magic needed Carter after Hedo Turkoglu rejected an informal offer the weekend before the draft. It didn't hurt that VC is from Daytona Beach, a 30-minute drive from Orlando, making him a local ticket draw.
Here’s what we know about some of the other proposed deals…not all of which has been published previously. Not being in the room, we can’t vouch for its accuracy, just that they were reported.
–Carter and Josh Boone to Houston for Tracy McGrady at the deadline. When McGrady heard the rumors, he immediately informed the media (not the team) that he was about to shut it down for the season. Talks ended.
–Carter to San Antonio for Fabricio Oberto, Bruce Bowen, George Hill and Roger Mason Jr. at the deadline. Tim Duncan, like McGrady, went public to kill this deal. A close second to the ultimate Magic deal. However, the Oberto and Bowen contracts could have been—and were--dumped this summer with small guarantees That would have given the Nets quicker salary relief.
–Carter and two first round picks to Portland for Raef LaFrentz and Channing Frye at the deadline. A salary dump of the first magnitude. The Nets wouldn’t even have had to pay all of LaFrentz’s salary. Eighty percent of it was paid by insurance after he suffered a season-ending injury last season. Frye’s contract expired at season’s end. The Blazers' owner, Paul Allen, reportedly vetoed it, thinking Carter's contract was too much.
–Carter to Cleveland for Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavlovic and J.J. Hickson in June. A little more complicated since no one knew whether Wallace would retire, as he suggested earlier in June, or how much of a buyout he would accept. He eventually accepted $10 million out of $14 million. Pavlovic had a small guarantee and was bought out. The Nets liked Hickson before last year’s draft but he’s not as developed as Lee.
--Carter and the Nets’ first round pick to San Antonio for Bowen, Oberto, Mason and Kurt Thomas (instead of Hill) just before the Draft. A revision of the deadline deal Duncan vetoed. The Spurs balked when the Nets asked for "additional considerations" and turned their attention to Richard Jefferson.
–Carter to Orlando for Rafer Alston, Tony Battie and J.J. Redick in June. The original deal offered by the Magic, which was followed by another permutation: VC and Eduardo Najera for Alston, Battie and Mickael Pietrus. Thorn wanted Courtney Lee. The Magic countered with a demand that Ryan Anderson be included. In addition to the three players, the Nets also wound up with two trade exceptions: one for $3.763 million, the other for $1.226 million. Done deal.
Of course, there were deals offered before last season, like the one the Cavs put on the table on Draft Night 2008, just after the Jefferson deal: VC for Wally Szczerbiak. Those were different economic times and the Nets rejected it. It's not known if it was offered again.
A note on how much Carter is owed. You may have seen three figures: $33.64 million over the next two years, $52.57 million over the next three or $37.64 million guaranteed. The third figure is the most accurate. Carter’s contract indeed has three years left at $52.57 million, but only $37.64 million is guaranteed. The third year is partially guaranteed for $4,000,000 if he’s waived before June 30, 2011.
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We all new Vince had to go, the question was how. The Orlando trade gave me hope that this franchise was still looking to WIN and steadily holding course to a championship vision. Rod and company did not panic into a complete fire sale. We got Courtney Lee and at the same time made Vince incredibly happy in the process. Classy…
by Will on Oct 17, 2009 10:04 PM EDT reply actions
The one Duncan Vetoed was the best from a pure talent perspective. Mason and Hill and keeping Anderson would be better than getting Lee and losing Anderson, but for a rebuilding team Lee has the highest potential of any player we could have gotten.
As far as the money he is owed, a trade to orlando helps him because in 3 years they likely will still want him and have to pay that salary as opposed to the spurs who would be likely start rebuilding.
by kevin on Oct 18, 2009 2:58 AM EDT reply actions
This is just speculation on my part, but I suspect that the original formulation with the magic (Carter for Alston, Battie, and Redick) also would have included either Sean or Boone. It’s never been reported that way, but I’m not sure that the deal would have worked salary-wise without another piece thrown in by the Nets. . . . Also, the Magic would have been desperate for a big to be included in the deal once Battie was included (which was necessary due to his salary) . . . As I envision it, when the Nets asked for an “upgrade” from Redick to Lee, the Magic asked for a similar upgrade, to Ryan.
Someone, feel free to correct me on whether the original deal could have been completed without Boone or Sean tossed in.
by Dumpy on Oct 18, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions
The Magic approached the Nets on Tuesday, two days before the draft, as I recall. It went down very quickly. Everyone knew the Nets were marketing Carter. I don’t think there was much negotiation.
Both the Nets and Magic have been quoted as saying the original formulation was Alston, Battie and Redick for VC. As for added players, I guess that’s possible, but I have seen nothing to suggest it. Redick remember makes more than Lee, about $1.6 million more. The combined salaries of Battie, Alston and Redick came out to $13.1 million, easily enough to match VC’s under the CBA. No need for another player on the other side.
If you’re looking for conspiracy theories, here’s one you should consider: By not taking Redick and instead trading Anderson for Lee (basically a wash—Anderson makes $53,000 more than Lee), the Nets saved nearly $2.9 million on THIS YEAR’S payroll…the value of Redick’s contract this year.
by NetIncome on Oct 18, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions
Great Move !!!!Besides the fact that we don’t have to pay him….. Carter is Soft…..Whenever he tries to play all out he ends up injuring his Hamstring…Bad Move on Orlandos part and great move by the Nets….Lee has the potential to be an All-Star and he is a natural leader…Alston and Battie are Solid Vets…..
by jan steinfeld on Oct 18, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions
Very cool read. Was interesting reading the trade offers for VC tho they were all mostly cap savers. The SA one with Hill and Mason wouldve been a nice one but the one with Orlando has the huge cap savings AND the best single prospect, C Lee, and I think his ceiling is higher than Ryans. Not that I’m complaining.. on a talent level Ryan should be a good player too and esp. for Orlando’s style. VC also has some talent I believe… :P
by Derek on Oct 18, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions
“Great Move !!!!Besides the fact that we don’t have to pay him….. Carter is Soft…..Whenever he tries to play all out he ends up injuring his Hamstring…”
Carter was one of the most durable players in the NBA during his time with the Nets. He only missed 13 games in five seasons.
But even if he had been injured a lot (which he wasn’t), what’s that got to do with being “soft”? I guess Kevin Garnett is “soft” because he missed a bunch of games last season and the entire playoffs. I guess Grant Hill is “soft”. And Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O’Neal, etc. Those guys have all missed a ton of games.
Carter has been one of the most durable players in the NBA the last 6 years.
by chris on Oct 19, 2009 12:31 AM EDT reply actions
So VC is durable because he was available to play in most of the games……I am stating that he is soft because of his lack of playing at his best every game….Same goes for Devin Harris…..He has the talent to be one of the best all-time NBA players….But he will have some super nights and then alot of other nights , he leaves his game at home….The harder he plays , the more he gets injured…..If VC played at 100 percent every night he also would have missed alot of games…..And I sure won’t miss his clowning around with the opposing team after we the Nets got embarassed by them…..
by jan steinfeld on Oct 19, 2009 7:43 PM EDT reply actions
So VC is durable because he was available to play in most of the games……I am stating that he is soft because of his lack of playing at his best every game….Same goes for Devin Harris…..He has the talent to be one of the best all-time NBA players….But he will have some super nights and then alot of other nights , he leaves his game at home….The harder he plays , the more he gets injured…..If VC played at 100 percent every night he also would have missed alot of games…..And I sure won’t miss his clowning around with the opposing team after the Nets got embarassed by them…..
by jan steinfeld on Oct 19, 2009 7:44 PM EDT reply actions
Soft vs. Hard , The way that TWill played against Philly is the way that VC with the talent that he has should be playing if he plays hard.Yes , He is getting older and he probably cannot do that anymore.Therefore , He is Soft.
by jan steinfeld on Oct 25, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
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