RJ: "I Knew Devin Was Amazing"

Such a classy guy, cant wait to go to the meadowlands when Milwaukee comes here.

However, imagine this team minus yi and simmons and plus jefferson.

i love rj!!!!!
hes not like kidd that quits on the team
rj wishes he could come back and i wish 2
i miss u!!!!

I never cared for RJ. He was so jealous of VC……….Next!

Runnin’,

Oh really name one thing VC has done that RJ hasnt besides win a slam dunk title? RJ is whut a true Net is loyal to the team and doesnt cry about things doesnt bother being a leader least RJ was on the NBA finals team something Vince has failed to do with Kidd. GO SOME WHERE ELSE WITH THAT.

@ joe t

You have it backwards, the team quit on Kidd.

RJ was a good Net, although inconsistent at times.

He didn’t like it when they traded away K-Mart, but he knew it was going to be his turn someday. He would have liked to play with Devin this year, that’s why he went into hiding after they traded him. Poor RJ, didn’t get a chance to be a winner this year.

Look I like RJ. He was a very good player for the Nets and he was a better leader than both Kidd & VC (VC has become a great leader post-Kidd but was poor before then).

but…

32_Franchise: you have got to be kidding. Sure RJ made it to the finals with the Nets but why discredit VC’s career for that…RJ had K-Mart & Kidd while VC had a bunch of aging vets..good vets sure but he had to carry the load way more than RJ did in those finals teams.

and to say “Oh really name one thing VC has done that RJ hasnt besides win a slam dunk title?” is laughable. If you were serious in that statement that’s kinda sad you are that so misinformed:
8-time NBA All Star
2-time NBA All-NBA team
Rookie of the Year
Olympic Gold Medalist
…there’s just a few that VC has done that RJ hasn’t….enjoy.

kevin: “the team quit on Kidd”
you can try & spin it any way you want but Kidd quit on this team. All the Nets beat reporters pretty much said it, Mgmt pretty much said it – he saw the team underachieving & decided the only way I stay with the Nets now is if they negotiate my last big contract extension & if not I want out and not only out but to a contender. Spin the story/angle any way you want but Kidd quit on the Nets period ! It doesn’t detract from his brilliant career as a Nets player but to try & re-do the bitter way he left and QUITE on the team isn’t going to work.

RJ is a great guy and a good role player.

but that is what he is. a role player.

he cannot create effectively for himself and does not possess as good a jump shot as Carter does. just look at RJ’s FG% when not playing with Kidd. (like in 04-05 or even right now)

moreover, if RJ were playing now, he would not be happy being the third fiddle,and that would detract from the chemistry.

moreover, RJ is not an adept three point shooter. Don’t hate on Simmons too much. he does not do anything wrong like the turn the ball over mercilessly or play shoddy defense.

he is a hard nosed player who is giving up his body on defense to he best of his ability and taking advantages of the few shots he does get in a game. (knocking down threes)

he is emulating the Bruce bOwen style of play (minus the dirtiness)

Anybody who’s being honest and has more than half a brain knows that the kidd-harris deal was a GREAT deal for the nets and that the jefferson-yi deal was a TERRIBLE deal for the nets.

In the 2010 free agent market, the nets will be lucky if they sign a player even close to the type of player that jefferson is.

In the meantime, we’re playing much better than everyone expected … mainly because of the surprisingly strong play of harris and lopez and because of some banged up opponents. But we could have been soooooooooo much better had thorn not traded jefferson.

Thorn held a deep personal grudge against jeferson for his public criticism of management regarding the collins and kidd trades.

That was the main reason, along with yi’s marketing appeal, that the jefferson-yi deal transpired.

Jefferson is not blameless. He should have kept his mouth shut. But thorn over-reacted, just like he did when firing byron scott after a .500 record at mid-season following back-to-back trips to the nba finals.

Unfortunately, thorn learned nothing from his colossal mistake of firing hall of fame head coach jerry sloan almost 3 decades ago. Some people never learn from their mistakes and thorn is a prime example.

Yi + Simmons / Jefferson Trade terrible?

Not quite. First of all, now the Jefferson is gone, Carter can be the 1st option w/out any confusion (Carter is playing so much better w/out Jefferson). Second, Harris has also taken major strides without somebody else trying to get their 15+ shots. Finally, as much as I loved RJ and and respect his game, I like having 2 additional guys that can shoot the three. I would make that same trade 100 times out of a 100.

Go Nets!

@ truenetsfan

RJ is averaging 19 points a game IN 38 MINUTES of playing time.

Yi and simmons are averaging a combined 18 points a game IN 53 MINUTES of playing time.

RJ is shooting 44%fg while getting double and triple teamed as the bucks’ leading scorer with michael redd out.

Yi is shooting 42%fg and simmons is shooting 39%fg, while barely getting single coverage from opposing defenses.

RJ is a proven playoff stud, averaging 21 points and 51%fg during his last 23 playoff games … SOMETHING THAT VERY FEW PLAYERS IN NBA HISTORY HAVE ACCOMPLISHED.

Yi crumbled under the pressure during the beijing olympics and simmons has career playoff averages of 33%fg and 7 points per game.

Neither yi or simmons is half the defensive player that rj is … even though jefferson coasted on d last season along with the rest of the nets players.

The bucks are allowing only 97.0 points per game this season, compared to 103.9 per game last season … thanks in large part to jefferson’s defense and leadership.

The nets are allowing 102.4 points per game this season compared to 101.0 points per game last season … thanks in large part to the subpar defensive play of yi and simmons.

The bucks are 9-12 despite their leading scorer … michael redd … being out for most of their games thus far. If it weren’t for jefferson, the bucks would probably be 0-21 instead of 9-12 this season.

Truenetsfan, you’d make the jefferson trade “a 100 times out of a hundred”? You sound just like mark cuban regarding the harris trade. You and cuban must be drinking from the same bowl of koolaid.

LOL @ brooklyn bob

We were not good with RJ last season and last few seasons.

RJ ate too many opportunities to shoot behind Carter.

We have two better shooting players like Simmons and Yi.

Imagine if we have Harris, Carter, RJ, Boone, Lopez.

and

Harris, Carter, Simmons, Yi, Lopez.

Yi and Simmons, one is good and the other one is solid in shooting the threes.

While the first one lineup would be limited in shooting the threes.

RJ is great, but sometimes playing basketball is not like doing the math.

@brooklyn bob

I never said Jefferson wasn’t the better player with better stats (thanks for all the data though). All I said is now that he’s gone, Carter has been playing better and I like having guys (Yi and Simmons) who can make threes. The Nets had a ceiling as how far they could go with the team they had, and I feel a large part of that was the Carter/Jefferson duo. They don’t compliment each other. RJ liked to think he was as good as Carter in certain situations and that was disasterous at times (Believe me, I know RJ won playoff games for us and once played stellar D), but once he started to score a lot, he lost a lot of his value to the Nets.

@ kevin
no its not backwards

Yet in spite of it all, the Nets are 11-8 and the Bucks are 7-12.

Making a judgment based on RJ’s totals and Yi and Simmons’ totals 19 games after the trade is simply silly. The Nets didn’t make the trade based on how they would do this season.

The Nets made the trade for the future and because Kiki was in love with Yi after watching him work out in 2007 before the draft while he was working for ESPN. He compared him to Nowitzki and since Kiki was director of player personnel for the Mavs during Dirk’s second year, you have to respect his opinion…unless you are Brooklyn Bob.

I still think Thorn made the right move with the RJ trade.

A)Yi, from what i have seen so far is young and inconsistent, but capable of being a legit player out there. When Yi is on the money and his head is into the game, he is a valuable weapon to have out there with our imo all star backcourt.

B)Simmons, even despite shooting over 40% from three is far from being impressive, will give us cap space we need to add more pieces in 2010, and no, i don’t mean Lebron James. I like what we are building here already.

I like Yi, as maddening as his inconsistency can be. The kid can play, he just needs to keep playing hard on both ends even if the shot is not falling. I think he will mature within the next 2 years to be a player that averages a double double, or at least 16ppg 8-9rpg, which is exactly what we need from him.

I like Yi’s youth and potential. His height can play a big roll in creating shots for himself, most PFs are NOT near that tall. RJ is proven, but washed up. Good trade if Yi improves.

Net Income,

Thanks for making this very clear for the rest of the posters here. For some reason the fact that we are building for the future is lost on some of the self proclaimed informed individuals here. They seem to overlook the fact that if RJ was as good as they think he was, Rod Thorn would have gotten more for him than he did . . . this ofcourse is ignoring the fact that they really wanted Yi. They went with the best offer they had.

The folks that are knocking the trade are the same one’s that were predicting a 2-19 start after our first 21 games. They were wrong then and will be proven wrong again once Yi develops his game. Go Net’s.

RJ is not washed up but the Nets believed he had peaked.

Yi’s last eight games, while he has had games of 27 and 2, has been an improvement over the first 11. In those games, he has averaged 13 and 5, shot 48% from the field and 41% from the arc.

@Net Income

Yi’s consistency has been steadily improving. His FG avg has been 47.4% after the 27-point Clippers game and 53.6% in the last 4 games. The main difference is that he is starting to let the game come to him, not pressing, not forcing the issue. Even in the Washington game where he went 2-4 and only scored 4 points, he did not take ill-advised shots.

Even though he only scored 12 points in the Philly game, our fellow Nets fans in this forum generally thought he had a good game. It shows me that our fellow Nets fans appreciate the improvements he has made in the intangible parts of his game. I think this is actually the most important area for him to work on because the better he plays defense, rebound, cut off the baseline, forcing turnovers, challenge shots, etc, the more playing time he gets. And the glory (points) will come as a by-product as his playing time increases.

My analysis shows that when he plays > 25 minutes, his scoring average is 15.4. Statistical regression shows that 15.4 points corresponds to about 32 minutes a game. This is with his current offensive skills. As he learns a couple of post moves, and become better at attacking the rim, his offensive production will be > 15.4 for the same 32 minutes of PT.

Again, do everything else well and be rewarded with playing time. The glory will follow.

732 Franchise is just a carter hater. i know him

I’m not knocking Vince for how he has played this season – he has been very good. And yes he is a more talented basketball player than RJ – no one can dispute that. But as far as what they accomplished as Nets – RJ over VC – sorry Vince lovers. Jefferson was a major part of 2 teams that went to the NBA Finals – we could not get out of the Conf. Semis with Vince – and in fact he has never advanced past that round (dpesite several good chances to do so with TOR vs PHI with NJ vs Miami and with NJ vs CLE)

RJ played hard all the time and he wore the defeats on his sleeve, I cannot remember ever seeing him laughing it up with opponents after a brutal defeat as Vince is regularly seen doing. Jefferson also clinched us a playoff series with his game-winning bucket vs Toronto. Vince then proceeded to have a meltdown in the next round with the game on the line vs Cleveland when he couldn’t even get off a shot attempt with the clock winding down.

Again, I LOVE the way Vince is playing this year, but can’t stand when RJ is written off by some on here as just an expendable decent play. He was a GREAT Net, and accomplished some great things as a member of the team.

All this being said, I am not advocating trading Vince this season at all – we need him now if we are even thinking about going to the playoffs this year!

Good posts, isaac.

It’s very revealing in the article ^ that rj gives ALL THE CREDIT for harris’s improvement to what he learned from “avery johnson and all the players there [dallas].”

RJ doesn’t mention lawrence frank even once or give him an ounce of credit for harris’s improvement … can’t say that i blame him.

The writer mentions the dribble-drive offense, but i’m pretty sure that was kiki’s idea, not frank’s. Frank knew so little about the dribble drive offense that management had to bring in an outside expert during training camp to monitor the nets’ implementation of the new offensive system.

RJ is a class act to continue to say nice things about the nets, even though management dumped him for a couple dime-a-dozen role players and even though management continues to backstab him in the press. RJ is a wayyyyyyyy better person than they are.

If RJ could have reverted back to his old defensive ways and chemistry worked out than this team could have been battling for homecourt in the playoffs.

RJ while not having a great year statistically is shooting 40% from 3 (negating the Bobby Simmons argument) and no doubt would fill our biggest needs of an ugrade at the 3, more defense and a 3rd option. Meanwhile, Yi’s 3 point shooting at the 4 could easily be replaced by Ryan Anderson or Najera.

The only question is, would RJ have been willing to play 3rd fiddle to Harris and VC and would Harris and VC be having the years that they have right now?
Hard to say. I don’t think RJ’s ego would have been the issues (the guy had no ego) but rather would the coach as well as the players RJ,VC and Devin been able to make it work.

A starting-5 of harris, carter, jefferson, anderson & lopez would be MUCH BETTER than our current starting-5.

Jefferson is a far better player than simmons … it’s not even close.

Anderson is a better all-around player than yi and he’s several years younger as well.

Thorn could have then used the mid-level free agent exception or worked a trade using draft picks & expiring contracts to acquire a defender/rebounder at power forward.

Then, we’d really be in business. An nba championship within the next 2 or 3 years … carter’s window as a top player … would definitely have been possible.

But unfortunately for us loyal nets fans, thorn was determined to ship rj out come hell or high water … so we’ll never know what might have been.

What you consider revealing, others consider stupid. How in the world can Jefferson give all the credit to Avery for devin’s development? Was he in Dallas to know what went on in their practices? I can understand you giving credence to this statement if it in fact came from Devin himself. Now if you seriously think that Avery brought Devin along to this point and could not find a way to use him in their offensive game plan, he is a bigger ass than Jefferson and deserved to be fired. It seems really stupid to have a guy on your team that averages 24 plus point and can put up 40 plus on any given night riding the pine when your team needs points.

Good Coaches find a way to maximize their players potential. from reading the local Dallas Newspapers, it is extremely clear that no one in the Mavericks Organization expected this kind of production from Devin. These included quotes from players and coaches including Dirk and Avery. They expected him to thrive but not at the level that he is currently playing at. Once again, If Avery developed all of this talent and didn’t know what to do with it or decided to give it away in a trade, then it is only fitting that he got fired. Face it, they traded him away because they taught he was not as good as he turned out to be. With the way he is playing now and the numbers he is putting up, there is no a chance in hell he would have been traded to the Nets.

As for the other comment about bringing in the Coach that designed the offense to teach it to the Nets Coaching Staff . . . what’s wrong with that? I would think it’s a better alternative to trying to figure it out yourself and end up not getting it quite right, losing games and screwing up the players confidence. People, this is what an organization dedicated and commited to winning does. They seize every oppertunity to improve their team. They brought him in to teach the basics of the Dribble Drive Offense and look where the team is, “me thinks” it was a splendid move. Be honest, most of you taught this team would have a losing record after the first 21 games. You were one the posters that predicted we were going to be 2-19 after the first 21 games. You were wrong then and are wrong once again.

Go Nets!!!!!!!!!

It’s awesome how brooklyn bob loves RJ the minute he got shipped out, but hates everyone actually on the team. That’s a true Nets fan!

That’s ridiculous to think a championship would be a definate possibility in 2-3 years time with a line-up of:

Harris
Carter
RJ
Anderson
Lopez

I’m sure most of the same moves would have been made (Najera, Dooling, Hayes, Anderson, Lopez) whether or not we traded RJ.

Meanwhile BB, you make it sound so easy to just magically find a PF for our loose change. Who exactly did you have in mind that would turn this still mediocre playoff team into a contender over the likes of Boston, LA, Cleveland, Portland, etc…?

Unless your talking Dirk, TD, Brand, Amare, Bosh, etc…. all of whom we couldn’t afford in free agency, and would cost us Harris, VC or RJ + picks and prospects…. a title is just a pipe dream.

BB, you like to criticize but you never really offer up realistic alternatives…. or was Ron Artest going to come and play PF and leads us to a title? LOL

@ ghoshi

Ghoshi, weren’t you one of the posters saying that yi is the next dirk nowitzki?

How’s that prediction working out?

And don’t tell me that yi is still young and developing. When dirk was yi’s age he was averaging 25 & 10 and shooting 46%fg … not 11 & 7 and shooting 42%fg, like yi is currently doing..

As far as my predictions go, i predicted that the nets would win no more than 30 games this year … 2-19 was only one possible scenario of several that i mentioned.

My overall prediction was that the nets would win between 15 and 30 games this season. Even thorn said that “on paper, we’re NOT a playoff team.” Even kiki said that “we may not win many games this year, but we’ll play hard and compete.”

And funny, i don’t recall YOU predicting that the nets would be 11-8 at this point in the season, either. You have a very selective memory regarding won-loss predictions, ghoshi.

The season still has a long way to go. As i said over the summer when making my predictions, one injury to carter or harris that causes them to miss just 3 or 4 weeks of action and the nets will be nba road-kill. Because jefferson is gone, the nets have virtually no margin for injury to any their star players.

Of course, i’m hoping that carter and harris stay healthy and that i’m proven wrong in the end … even though devin has been very injury prone during the last several seasons.

As for harris’s improvement, NOBODY, I REPEAT, NOBODY, expected him to be playing at this level … NOT YOU, not cuban, not avery, not thorn(by his own recent admission), not frank, not nba analysts … NOT ANYONE, EXPECTED IT.

As for avery johnson, he used devin as the starting point guard on a team that went to the nba finals and had the best record in the league the following year. Devin was a HUGE part of the mavs’ success. He was traded only because mark cuban fell in love with jason kidd. Not because avery wanted devin shipped out.

Devin himself, in the article ^, says that the key to his recent success was the development of his pull-up jumper … and most nba analysts agree with that opinion.

The improvement in devin’s shooting numbers are a tribute to his own work ethic, commitment and focus … something that both avery johnson and dirk nowitzki have been famous for over the course of their own careers.

So jefferson’s comment about “avery johnson and all the players there[dallas]” contributing to devins’ improvement makes all the sense in the world. Devin was clearly inspired by avery and dirk.

To suggest that devin’s work ethic, commitment and focus were inspired by lawrence ‘i never played the game’ frank is beyond “stupid” … to use your word, not mine.

@ Jack Handy

I was begging thorn last spring and summer to keep carter, harris and jefferson AND to try acquiring ron artest from the kings … thorn did neither.

Artest has literally saved the rockets’ season in the wake of serious injuries to battier and mcgrady.

And yes, artest was EASILY obtainable last summer. The rockets proved that by acquiring him for “loose change”, to use your words.

Artest is universally considered the best perimeter defender in the league, hands-down. He’s also, because of his amazing strength, a superior post defender as well.

In case you haven’t noticed, jack, DEFENSE, especially permeter defense, is our primary weakness this season.

A starting-5 of harris, carter, jefferson, artest & lopez would DEFINITELY have been championship caliber.

Unfortunately, too many nets fans are in stone cold denial … just like their favorite whipping boy, mark cuban of the mavs … and still can’t admit that management made an atrocious trade over the summer in dealing jefferson for yi and simmons.

Artest cost Houston an expiring contract, Donte Greene (their #1 pick) as well a future #1 pick.

I’m not sure how Artest would have reacted to coming to a rebuiling NJ Nets team with 3 other players ahead of him as main options, nor do I think Artest could have played PF full time.

Yes our perimeter D is lacking, but if we had VC and RJ on the wings there are not too many minutes either offensively or defensively on the wings.

Additionally he very well could have just been a 1 year rental as his contract expires this year and I’m sure he’s looking for big money next summer.

In other words, we would have had to give up the equivalent of 2 #1 picks for a player we have no assurance will stay with us past this season, and one who had a higher than average probability of being a distraction.

It will be interesting to see not only how Houston does in the playoffs this season, but also where Artest signs in the off-season.

Regardless, I still can’t think of any realistic options that could have made this team close to championship calibur in 2-3 years.

Gee, Little Richard, you sure catch on to the obvious real quick.

And Rod didn’t say that to a milwaukee paper, it was rewritten from the new jersey paper.

@ jack handy

Artest is from queens/brooklyn and would have JUMPED at the chance to return to his hometown area (before the rockets trade he was pushing hard for a trade to the lowly knicks).

Artest would also have JUMPED at the chance to play with harris, carter, jefferson and lopez … that’s hardly a “rebuilding” team in the classic sense of the word.

That’s a championship contender, if artest is added to the mix at power forward … which he definitely can play in the era of nba small-ball.

Artest’s shooting ability would have complemented our dribble drive offense, while his defensive ability would have complemented our transition game led by harris & jefferson.

Donte Green was the 28th pick in the 2008 draft. The 2009 pick will also be a very late 1st rounder. Bobby Jackson is an injury prone 35-year old backup guard.

A package of swift & swat(the 17th pick in the 2007 draft) would have been MORE THAN ENOUGH to obtain artest from the kings. That’s a far better deal than what the rockets gave them ^.

Artest will sell his services to the highest bidder this summer, since it’s his last chance at BIG money. If the nets had acqured artest last summer, they could easily have outbid the competition this summer due to nba cap rules.

Again, a starting-5 of harris, carter, jefferson, artest & lopez would have given nightmares to opposing head coaches … even those on the lakers, celtics and cavs!!!

I actually didn’t like the Yi and Simmons for Rj trade that much. That trade was merely for reserving cap space for 2010 while getting a lottery talent in Yi to develop.
I think I wouldn’t have drafted Anderson at #21 if that was the case. I’d definitely take Darrell Authur over him.

The management did what they had to do at the time. RJ is very overpaid for what he does produce. The longer you wait, the harder it is to trade him, which would sabotage the 2010 plan. In addition, RJ is a bit of a ballhog. This team needs to start the offense with the ball in the playmakers’ hands—Devin and VC. I think Kiki saw that Devin, VC and RJ together are not working because all of them need the ball to be effective.

The point is that the management decided to cut cost while remaining competitive. There wasn’t a bit of evidence last year that’d convince them to keep the core and become a contender this year.

BB,

Well, a couple things…

If I’m Sacramento I’d rather have Bobby Jax over Swift since he’s a hometown favorite and a back-up PG which they needed. Donte Green I’d take over SWAT any day of the week. He was projected as a lottery pick and fills a need at SF which the Kings needed.

And finally, I’m sure if it were that easy to land Ron Artest (Adelman may have had something to do with it) I’m sure the Nets and 28 other teams placed the obligatory phone calls.

And I know your fixated on Ron-Ron but again outside of this one suggestion I see no other viable options to turn this team into a contender.

I don’t think you can compare Yi and RJ directly because Yi plays out of position at the 4 therefore, is inconsistant and not effective on d. Furthermore, I don’t believe he will develop into anything different he is now at the 4 which is a good offensive threat and a liability on d. As far as RJ imo he was, is and will always be a better 3 then Yi was, is and will be at the 4. As far as the trade, imo it was a good one because it gave us cap room and don’t underestimate the financial side to getting Yi. However, if Yi played the 3 he’d be better than RJ and an instant success. I also believe that if we had RJ instead of Yi we would be no different because neither would make a major impact on d and with DH, as opposed to Kidd, RJ would not be as much of a factor on offense.

@Brooklyn Bob,

For the record, my first posting on this board was this week. I think this might be my second or third posting but I drop in and read up on the Nets from time to time. I have never made any predictions on the state of affairs because unlike some, I do not profess to be psychic nor am I privy to any sort of inside information . . . be it real or imagined.

In response to your post, I never have compared Yi to any other player. I will be more than happy if Yi turns out to be the best “Yi” can be. I am not particularly enthralled by Dirk’s game anyhow. He is just a scorer without an ounce of defence. Also, I never made any predictions on this squad, but honestly I thought they would be competitive. I felt that Vince could still carry a team and Devin was a pretty decent player coming in and his style of play complemented Vince’s. However, I did not think they would be this good this early especially with the influx of the rookies and all their new players trying to get on the same page. With Coach Frank’s track record, I expected it to take at least half the season before we started seeing quality basketball.

In my post, I did not credit Coach Frank with Devin’s improvement. Devin came to NJ with a mission to improve his game and prove that he is one of the best points in the NBA. If you read some of Vince’s interviews, he mentions how Devin was the other guy that came to workout with him and suggested that they put together the off season workouts for the rest of the team. He talks of how Devin expressed that he wanted a leadership role on this team and went to work on aspects of his game that needed improvement. Some players like Devin are self driven and others aren’t. Coach Frank had nothing to do with the guys getting together earlier this summer. Now, read into it what you want but, Coach does get the credit for putting in a system that utilizes Devins’his talents to the max. Avery was unable to do that and what really is beyond “stupid” is the fact that you completely lack the ability to read and comprehend a simple post.

Go Nets !!!!!!!!!!!